Hi, this is my first post.
I'm trying to stay positive today so sorry I wont re-count my story now, it hurts too much. My wife (6 months married 7 year relationship) said she owes it to me to "try" and to give it an honest try she understand she cant talk to him while we go through counsling. BUT she isnt saying it is over with him. I asked her to be honest and she was she says she still loves him and cant remember being in love with me.. but admits she once did. She is so confused.. she is cheating on me with a married man.... anyway.. back to my question <p>If she doesnt admit or at least say its over can this be considered trying? Also while they have had no contact, I know for a fact she is "writing" letters to him thoguh not sending them. just saving them in files. (I found one) When I asked her if she was keeping her promise to not write him she said "I have not made contact with him. In any way." I dont want to confront her.. I dont know this is so hard I dont know how you all are doing this....

a,<p>I by no means am an expert, but a BS myself, who is in the tail-end of an affair caused by my wife. There is a lot of support here, you came to the right place. From an experience so fresh I can tell you it is by no means easy. I would get so furious when I discovered contact between my W and the OM. It's difficult to keep it in and to trust that the A will die a natural death, but you have to. Just try your best to keep any evidence to yourself, no LBs, and look closely at what problems your W has with your M. Support from Redhat, Orchid and others will help you through this difficult time. I have taken advice wisely and used what I could in my circumstance to get me through most of it. Keep posting here and the answers will come, even though it may seem like an eternity. My M is on the road to recovery, but it has not been easy in no way shape or form. This is something you commit to trying if you really love your spouse and want a fulfilling marriage, but no one will ever tell you it's easy. Read my posts under "willing to hang in there". I look at it as somewhat of a journal of my experience with a trajic life event.<p>Echalon

Echalon,
We are not expert [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] either but we are willing to lend our heart out. I am glad that you start helping others too. Is is part of healing [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . BTW: Your thread will become classic ... keep updating that thread w/ your progress 'till recovery as a journal. You know I will use it [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>a,
Welcome to MB. I am BS my self and WW still fence sitter. However as you see in Echalon's thread, is a text book example of MB and it will be a notable posts in the future. Keep your mind out of A and stop even thinking about it, pretend that it never happens. Let it go and keep you mind busy learning MB, keep posting so that we could lend some hand.

Thanks for the advice and support..
reading some of the stories and your words help, though others are very disheartening..
the post "Plan A misapplication by Distress " does that mean that we will definately have to go through plan B? <p>I know I let our relationship die, because of my passive aggressive nature. I knew not talking would hurt her and I know I used that against her sometimes. We have gotten so out of touch I know that she sought what she had lost with me in the OM. <p>I'm trying to renew what we had. she is admittedly not "contacting" him though I think she is writing him these letters... is that ok? I dont know if we can still consider our trying really trying until she says that she WONT see him and she admits its not real. Though perhaps I am expecting too much.. perhaps the A has to die a natural death like many of you and MB say. I hope we can skip that because it just hurts too much. <p>She is my first love. I am not her first. so many thats why this is so hard for me. i got pretty depressed and I do have bouts of anxiety at work wondering if my WW is talking to HIM. I have a hard timeconcentrating and resisting the urge to talk to her all the time. I got so bad I tried to kill myself the other day. i tried to cut my wrists but only managed to give myself a really bad cut. I was on my when to purchase a gun when i passed by my sister's hospitol.. she is a doctor. I broke down and told her everything. though I had resisted before becasue we are not close and I did not want to make my WW feel uncofortable coming back. Im fine now and realize that while my wife is one life for me even if things dont work out I have many other lives and possibilities. its just saddening.. Dont worry I wont do that again and am seeing a counselor. <p>ANYWAY too depressing. Back to possibilities.
I am trying hard to have her open up to me.. my WW says the OM knows her so well.. she is so blinded... HE is 5 years married admits to having been with other women since.. why does she still think they have any future together? She is so smartI wish she could take a step back and look at things. he can never give her what sheneeds.. but she refuses to admit it. It may die a natural death.. I have confidence it will.. it will just hurt so much for her and me and I hate having both of us go through that...<p>On a vengance note: I know everything about him.. it probably would not be a good idea to do anything like tell the OM's wife though because the [censored] and my wife would probably run to each other and my WW would blame me. She still defends him and seemsto have lost all confidence and pride in herself.. when I tell her that she would always have doubts about him. she says he would think the sameof her...
sigh.. I guess I'll keep it all to myself though I cant help wondering if I spyed on him and could prove to my WW that he was seeing other women too for "comfort" even now, my WW would see the light.
BUT like you say I guess Ill try sticking with plan A for now its only been a week now. I dont know how you all can live with what seems like your whole future hanging in their hands and hearts.<p>Thanks for the replies.<p>
Alex

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by HangingIn:
<strong>Thanks for the advice and support..
reading some of the stories and your words help, though others are very disheartening..
the post "Plan A misapplication by Distress " does that mean that we will definately have to go through plan B? </strong><hr></blockquote>
It depends ... if A is not dead you have to make WS to choose and kill it. You doing the right thing not to second guess it but be patience.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>[qb[]I know I let our relationship die, because of my passive aggressive nature. I knew not talking would hurt her and I know I used that against her sometimes. We have gotten so out of touch I know that she sought what she had lost with me in the OM. [/qb]<hr></blockquote>
This is one of your plan A ... be there always even it crushes you. You have more love than OM, she will see it.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I'm trying to renew what we had. she is admittedly not "contacting" him though I think she is writing him these letters... is that ok? I dont know if we can still consider our trying really trying until she says that she WONT see him and she admits its not real. Though perhaps I am expecting too much.. perhaps the A has to die a natural death like many of you and MB say. I hope we can skip that because it just hurts too much.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Let it go. A has to die naturally for your M to have a chance to be rebuild and renew w/ loving & care.<p>{quote]<strong>She is my first love. I am not her first. so many thats why this is so hard for me. i got pretty depressed and I do have bouts of anxiety at work wondering if my WW is talking to HIM. I have a hard timeconcentrating and resisting the urge to talk to her all the time. I got so bad I tried to kill myself the other day. i tried to cut my wrists but only managed to give myself a really bad cut. I was on my when to purchase a gun when i passed by my sister's hospitol.. she is a doctor. I broke down and told her everything. though I had resisted before becasue we are not close and I did not want to make my WW feel uncofortable coming back. Im fine now and realize that while my wife is one life for me even if things dont work out I have many other lives and possibilities. its just saddening.. Dont worry I wont do that again and am seeing a counselor.</strong>[/quote]
Been there twice and got help from BIL & FIL. My WW is not only my first love but my first kiss belong to her [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] . You should not showing your emotion and not to talk to her. She might enjoy talking to you. However never talk about A or relationship unless she brought it up.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>ANYWAY too depressing. Back to possibilities.
I am trying hard to have her open up to me.. my WW says the OM knows her so well.. she is so blinded... HE is 5 years married admits to having been with other women since.. why does she still think they have any future together? She is so smartI wish she could take a step back and look at things. he can never give her what sheneeds.. but she refuses to admit it. It may die a natural death.. I have confidence it will.. it will just hurt so much for her and me and I hate having both of us go through that...</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are in the right track ... counting your ammunitions, you have everything to loose but OM is not.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> ...BUT like you say I guess Ill try sticking with plan A for now its only been a week now. I dont know how you all can live with what seems like your whole future hanging in their hands and hearts.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Alex, IMHO, try to find a way to tell OM'W. A has to be put to trial, not by you but by others. Sooner or later the world has to know, opening it up will help WS to hit the reality check. Snoop only to gather information, you should know the enemy, his strength and his weakness. Keep posting it will help a lot.

First day of marriagecounseling went ok. but now im starting to get more and more discouraged by her lies. I thought she might open up but, Ijust find myself getting more and more spiteful.
I'm snapping at people at work. I am so full of anger now. If I ever see this ******* he better watchout in fact I know where he lives and works.
I've never hurt a sole in my life but i've never been so close to snapping.<p>I'm not the most patient guy I guess...I hate this. i hate everything
I know she isnt contacting him, but she still is writing her journal to him which again I found. she wrote that I am with her all the time and seem insecure and nervous.. ugh I am but Im trying not to be.. I dont trust her and I guess I should tell her that but that is a LB, which I am trying to avoid. I want to tell her I know about the LOG she is writing to him which I found but thats a LB too right? I just have to suck it up... she says she is trying to my face and told the marriage counslor it wasnt about the OM, but she writes to the OM in the log that she is just doing this till so I can realize we have done all we can and I guess give up. she tells me she is doing this for us. how can she still lie to me. <p>Our love isnt in a good place and hasnt been for a while due to many complicationsI'm trying so hard, but she doesnt see me as more than a friend ... she has for almost 3 years now out of our 7. I'm loosing hope and thinking it might be too late for us.<p>I think by the time this is over all I will be left with is spite, hate, and anger, and thats only if that isnt all there is now. How do you all try to hard without getting anything back..
i feel like screaming and hitting something but I already f'd up my hand.<p>sigh.. i guess Im done that rant. back to the grindstone? <p>please someone answer my questions: what should I do about the LOG she writes to him.. its not contact but its still a connection. Also what to do about her mentality about trying "just so I can see its over". I better get back to work.. im a mess here too

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by HangingIn:
<strong>First day of marriagecounseling went ok. but now im starting to get more and more discouraged by her lies. I thought she might open up but, Ijust find myself getting more and more spiteful.
I'm snapping at people at work. I am so full of anger now. If I ever see this ******* he better watchout in fact I know where he lives and works.
I've never hurt a sole in my life but i've never been so close to snapping.</strong><hr></blockquote>
In plan A, it is not about her, it is about you so there is no expectation of result of her. You are expecting result right away ... be patience my man ... be patience. You have make it so far you could do it. Also, no disrespect, since she is in the fog and partially probably also drive her there ... it is not OM's fault but the failure of your wife to protect her weakness. You fix your part and let her see it, if she see it and still not sure you rock it with plan B and if she still stuck, you could move on and it is not you, it is her choice. I don't know your OM but OM could be the nice person
but fail also to protect his weakness. I know my WW's OM is not and make it easier for me in plan A.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I'm not the most patient guy I guess...I hate this. i hate everything
I know she isnt contacting him, but she still is writing her journal to him which again I found. she wrote that I am with her all the time and seem insecure and nervous.. ugh I am but Im trying not to be.. I dont trust her and I guess I should tell her that but that is a LB, which I am trying to avoid. I want to tell her I know about the LOG she is writing to him which I found but thats a LB too right? I just have to suck it up... she says she is trying to my face and told the marriage counslor it wasnt about the OM, but she writes to the OM in the log that she is just doing this till so I can realize we have done all we can and I guess give up. she tells me she is doing this for us. how can she still lie to me. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Take this as a training ground to be the most patience guy that your family ever deserve. They lie they cheat the do all sort of thing unimaginable like what addict does and has a crave. You should look at you wife like an insane, you love them and you try to help them get well. All action you could attibute it to the fog, the insanity of their action. No, snooping and sleuthing is not an LB !. Do you trust an addict ? no !. You try to find out. But do not bring what you know to judge her, this is an LB. I know it is eating you up but keep it within you and read it to see the progress of your plan A. If you think you can not handle it or start creating resenment within you then stay away from it and work on yourself.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Our love isnt in a good place and hasnt been for a while due to many complicationsI'm trying so hard, but she doesnt see me as more than a friend ... she has for almost 3 years now out of our 7. I'm loosing hope and thinking it might be too late for us.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You know that OM won't work for your wife, same thing like my WW's. By giving up now you make not only your M fails but her future too. You owe it to yourself and to your W to give MB the last shot. It is unconditional love and totally the oposite of what WS is doing, selfishness. If they still blinded you could move on and you will be irresistable and not making the same mistake twice.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I think by the time this is over all I will be left with is spite, hate, and anger, and thats only if that isnt all there is now. How do you all try to hard without getting anything back..
i feel like screaming and hitting something but I already f'd up my hand.<p>sigh.. i guess Im done that rant. back to the grindstone?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nope, if you do MB properly, at the end you will understand youself and be the better man you was once. We come here to cry on each other shoulder, to vent our anger, to learn from each other. The hardest part for me is keeping my mind busy. I go to gymn, I consider myself as a single dad so I am busy w/ my 2 D activities, the idle time that I have is between meeting or whne I am in the office after I am finishing my tasks. I am busy usually try to help others here. Get busy, pick up activities that you like once and lost because of M ... do something that will wake you wife up and see it as "changes". At the sametime you do plan A, so that your change is an intro to your plan A.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>please someone answer my questions: what should I do about the LOG she writes to him.. its not contact but its still a connection. Also what to do about her mentality about trying "just so I can see its over". I better get back to work.. im a mess here too</strong><hr></blockquote>
She is in withdrawal from her addiction, do nothing about the log and read it if you want to know. Work on her issue(s) and work your butt out !. Do thing that what a romantic lovers do, bring flowers for her, write love note to her, the thing that your wife appreciate. It is hard but you could look deep in your past when you were "in love" w/ her and carry on. The sugested plan A is 6 month w/o no reasons ... to train us so that those plan A'ng become a habit for a life time [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .
Hang in there ...<p>[ December 14, 2001: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

Are you shure she's not sending those letters
by email? My WS used to rough draft them on paper
then send them e-mail. I guess it saved time
on the computer so I would'nt get suspicious.
Just a thought. Hang in there! Keep plan A-ing.

"I have not made contact with him"<p>Sounds so familiar. She's avoiding your question.
She may have not contacted OM physically but
I don't believe she's not emailing those letters.
I found a whole dresser full of my W's letters.
And I have access to her email too.Found the
same letters,(give or take) She doesn't know.
Sorry to sound so blunt, but you have to get to
the truth before you can recover.But coming
here is a good first step. I'm still in your
position as well. I'm waiting for the xmas letter.
Hang in there!

No. I know she isnt sending them. I read their "goodbye" email which said that when we are "trying" she will only write in a document but not send it. Later as she says to him "when the dust and he (me) sees that he has done all that he can with counsling" they will read each others letters.
This is what upsets me, because we go to counseling but if she is sabotaging it I dont think its going to work. BUT if it fails because of her weakness and doubt, she will point to it and say see we were never meant to be.<p>
Anyway I know im young and we dont have kids... the rest of you I know are going through the same thing or worse and I take strength from you all.. I always looked to her for strength as couples do.. i guess this at the very least will teach me to stand on my own.<p>I guess we are all suckers for love eh? I just wish it was a little ... heh a LOT easier.<p>
I think Im more calm now thanks all... <p>I got upset at work and snapped at people, I screamed that I quit and was going to storm out but they stopped me. They at least know I'm a good person.<p>
About the flowers and doing nice things... heh I have been. she says Im sending too much.. I reminded her I always gave her gifts or notes or signs of affection.... she said it makes her feel guilty.. well.. thats something I think.<p>
Oh fyi to top it off, my mother (who of course does not know) has been having chest pains and is in the hospital.. when it rains it pours!<p>Good luck all stay strong.. thoughts and prayers are with you all.. I hope one day I am strong enough to give you as good advice as you are me.

Hang in there, it's tough I know. My WW has had no contact with OM for a week and half now, and I'm still snooping in order to keep things in check. I do believe the worst is over. The secret to my success was to keep plan A'ing my [censored] off. <p>Look deep into yourself, and make the changes you need to, not only for her, mainly for you. I made changes such as taking more pride in my appearance through exercise, grooming, new clothes etc.. These things can only make you feel better about yourself, and will show on the outside as well. I thought, "hey, if things don't work out with W, I'll at least feel good about myself." Try to think about yourself many years ago when you were out there dating, and the care you took of yourself in order to attract a woman. It'll come to ya! <p>For her, try to open up and talk, I had that problem in my M for many many years, that was one of her big EN I wasn't fulfilling. If you haven't it not easy to change, but just find something to talk about, and listen to her using lots of eye contact so she know she has your full attention. <p>If you truly love your W all the effort is worth it tenfold. My M feels refshed now, lots of closeness. I keep a journal just to log my feelings and thoughts, it's been a way of venting and off-loading some emotional baggage. Has your W always kept a journal? She might be finding it helpful as well. If your doing all the things like flowers, love notes etc., that's great! But don't be too smothering or overdo it. Be yourself, just better. Keep posting.<p>Later, Echalon

I havent written in a while, still have been on a rollercoaster for a bit, but she has gradually grew more and more open to me. Plan A'ing away, and feel a bit better about myself too. <p>Success? After a emotional holiday, and continued trying, Yesterday during dinner, she told me not to get my hopes up but she was going to try to do the right thing. She didnt specif anything more than that and I did not want to create a LB by pushing too hard. I'm soo happy, but still reserved. I told her I was happy and I love her and it still may be a rocky road. but I am so hopeful. I prayed for the first time in a while when this was ongoing. she thinks she is starting to come into faith to. Thank you God and all of you for your support. I know its not over, but I think this was at least a step, since my biggest heart ache was that she did not even want to try for us.<p>I am ashamed to be so happy because I know most of you reading this are still going through a horrible time. Please hang in there, remember the good times, it IS possible. Keep praying for us all, I know things arent over yet, but this give me a toehold to keep going. I know she has decided to make a commitment to stay with me after we got married.. 6 months into the A, but ended back with him again in a week, so I dont expect this to be the end of it, but I can hope.<p>love you all! I think I love everyone today.. heh<p>Me.

HangingIn,
Don't feel guilty about you happiness, we cry when we see a sad post; we rejoice when we see a happy one.<p>About the flowers and doing nice things... heh I have been. she says Im sending too much.. I reminded her I always gave her gifts or notes or signs of affection.... she said it makes her feel guilty.. well.. thats something I think.
Don't stop and let her know using fogese that you can not help it and it is not for her (feeling guilty) is for you, could she accepts it for now even if she did not want to read it [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Happy Holiday

Well,
She just told me she talked to him over the phone to tell him her feelings have changed. She realizes she loves me and wants to be married with me forever. She is sorry for hurting him and what he is going through with his wife. <p>The only thing I am worried about is she said she still wants to be friends with him. She says though she will never see him in person, but she doesnt see him as an option anymore. <p>I agree with MB that there probably should NOT be any contact.. is this doomed to start again if she still talks to him? she promised she would never see him or talk about love or a future together. Supposedly his wife is horrible to him and he is depressed and will be moving out soon and he needs a friend. <p>I guess I have to do a modified plan A for the rest of my life? Though im still worried if they are still "friends" and I slip and do something to make her mad she will go back to him. I guess the only thing I can do is keep working to improve myself and continue to show my love for her. A little self improvement is never wrong, right?<p>any comments? I'm so happy and thankful, though still a bit worried.<p>keep hanging in everyone!<p>Love & God bless,
Me<p>PS: we had an awsome talk about our future.. she is still at work on her lunch break.. I cant wait till she gets home, Im going to hug her to pieces.

Reality check? Found this after she "broke it off with him" she wrote him again calling him dearest,
and that he was special and their time meant a lot. she wants to be friends. and told him he will always be in her heart no matter what, but she cant have 2 people. she loves him very much and intends to keep talking to him on phone and e-mail to get him through his hard times. she signed it love. <p>she promised she wouldnt use that word ever with him again. <p>is this just a setback or the start of hell again?
sigh at least I had a few minutes to dream... keep hanging in there I guess. There were some positives... <p>not quite so estatic,
me<p>(Adding this for someone who posted, I have posted updates since this one, check page two -> )<p>[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: HangingIn ]</p>

HangingIn,
I send you email. No Contact is should be instituted for recovery of M. Since she is not willing, you are still in plan A. Try to get her to console w/ MB. That letter is just for a show to you, look at her action not her words.

Despite my earlier postings I think she has regressed a bit they still talk. she says she is asking God for a sign to help her choose. choose?! why is there a choice. She said she just keeps dreaming about him. but how can she not if she keeps talking to him! I know you all are going through worse and I take some heart in your strength. <p>Is it a LB to be sad? I can't help it sometimes even when she is around. i guess it is because she gets upset also. it hurts because i want to be honest with her to and share my feelings but i feel I cant because I dont want to upset her. I feel so alone sometimes.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by HangingIn:
<strong>Despite my earlier postings I think she has regressed a bit they still talk. she says she is asking God for a sign to help her choose. choose?! why is there a choice. She said she just keeps dreaming about him. but how can she not if she keeps talking to him! I know you all are going through worse and I take some heart in your strength. <p>Is it a LB to be sad? I can't help it sometimes even when she is around. i guess it is because she gets upset also. it hurts because i want to be honest with her to and share my feelings but i feel I cant because I dont want to upset her. I feel so alone sometimes.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is the reason we have MB Forum ... to weather this storm in our life w/ friends. Did you get on MB conseling ?. Don't worry about her feeling right now. Do the 4 rule(s) of recovery on your own. Give her care, protection, time and honesty. Try to do something different and stay away from R discussion. Bring her to opera or symphony or play and rekindle the romance. Buy ticket for 2 if she refuses the get your freind to go. Reserve table for 2 if she refuses you go with your freind. Of course male freind. Don't get suck into her "fog". Take get away vacation. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . I did that w/ skiing and now she wants to go the next time we go. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

Thanks redhat.
No we havent gotten a MB counselor we are still since a local one, though i don't like her much. She is more of a we talk she listen counselor and doesnt offer any advice at all.. she is too impartial. she said affairs are wrong but not all mariagges work out. I dunno about her I dont feel she is helping. <p>Anyhow I screwed up by getting upset and she asked me what was on my mind. I told her, I wasnt going to lie. I was unhappy about things any that she couldnt promise yet to be with me forever. Way too constricting on my part. She says she sees how everything is eatting me up inside and it stresses her. I'm trying to be happy its hard tho. Especially since she cant tell me she wont talk to him yet. <p>she says she worries she will stop talking to him and find a year later she still feels the same. <p>Oh well. I guess Ill start rebuilding again.. I'm seeing a psychologist for my own issues and depression. and I planned something really nice for Valentines. I'll try to back off, but Im afraid if I stop working and holding things together they will fall apart again. <p>She says she can't remember being in love with me, though she thinks she was. thats not good.
well I guess its good she thinks she was.<p>ugh. this is tough. I hate emotions.<p>I think I should re-read my SAA book tho it makes me depressed, because I hope I guess we are somehow special and can skip all the steps and she will wake up loving me again.<p>She said she cant think about her feelings because I am there all the time. She would beable to sort things out if she was alone (ie: I moved out). But I know I cant let her have that. Also I dont think we have repaird the marriage yet. its hard to because when we talk about feelings the tone turns bad. we are happy when we pretend nothing is wrong, but is that the way to go? I guess. Its just like a scab I cant help picking.
I cant help thinking or trying to imagine what she was thikning or what possesed her to sleep with him. I found out the A was mostly her persuing him. She setup the meetings, she called him. that hurts so much.<p>ugh STOP THINKING ABOUT IT!
i cant help it sometimes.

Hangin In, You sound like you could be the spouse of my H's ow. He says she is trying to work it out with her H, and they are really trying...he is making me look like a real ogar... and he is depressed... he is confused, and has messed up our entire lives with his OW. I know how much it hurts. Do not believe that the OM's wife is terrible... it is very likely that is what he it telling her... and her him... possibly. ... or about her loveless life... and that you are just friends... Isn't it awful? <p>I am sorry to see you in so much pain... and hope like crzy you are not in my city... but perhaps you are- where do you live? Just curious... it is always possible.<p>My H is lying to me constantly..he is out with the OW toay running errands... he lies lies and lies. A secret fantasy life is just so sad.. when both the man and the woman involved in the affair are just in denial and confusion... they should only turn to their marriage partners for something more.<p>I hope you do what you can to plan a... as much as possible.. and be very very patient... Are the two of you in counseling? If so, or not, you may want to find a marriage builders experienced therapist.. you can call a number at MB in the counseling section/<p>Good luck to you, my prayers go out to you.<p>HONEY [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]