Hello,

I'm posting this under a new name b/c my H claims that he found my other posts under "Just Found Out", which are titled "Devastated." (I doubt my H found my posts, but just in case I don't want him to read my draft Plan B letter.) This is a long post, so please be patient w/ all my questions and concerns.

Here's a brief summary of my situation: BS (me, 33); WS (H, 35); OW(22 & still lives at home w/ parents); together 5 yrs; no C; married & bought house in April (so m'ed 9 mos). H had EA then PA. I tried to Plan A for months before I confirmed the A - then gently revealed it at the end of Dec (but no contact w/ OW or her parents). OW knew he was married, H's parents already knew, and OW's parents didn't know then but apparently know now that he is married and are "OK" with it.

My H has absolutely NO desire to work on the marriage and will not end A. He has returned the book I gave him about repairing the marriage and won't even speak to me. He hates me. He is not sorry about anything, blames me for everything, wants a divorce as soon as possible and wants me to move out of the house. We are still living together, but separate bedrooms now, and H will buy me out of the house in the divorce, which will be done in about 2 - 3 months.

I did a good Plan A, but things really fell apart the week before I revealed the A and since then (so about 4 weeks now) things have been awful - lots and lots of LBs and horrible drama. I've given him a bad verbal version of the Plan B letter b/c he said such cruel and disgusting things to me. H is now saying that this proves we cannot communicate and he should divorce me. (See my posts for more detail.) H told me prior to my finding out about the A that he didn't think we were working out and that he wanted a divorce, and so after that he felt he was free to to escalate his A. Because of the many recent LBs, I don't think my H has any love left for me. I've been advised to do Plan B & move out of the house as soon as possible.

If I did a lot of LBs and a horrible Plan A the past 4 weeks, should I try a little more Plan A before I go to Plan B? I feel as though the distance will just solidify our divorce since I don't have any deposits in his love bank.

If I go to Plan B, should I send the letter to OW and her parents? Keep in mind that after a very gentle confrontation that was done by a 3rd party, not even me, and only w/ her (not even her parents), I was told through my H that I was not to contact them in any way and that she had now told her parents. I'm afraid I will get into legal trouble if I send the letter to OW and/or her parents and/or his parents.

Also, I don't want to say anything in my Plan B letter that would be used against me in the divorce. I need to assume that the letter could admitted as evidence and/or made public.

If I do go to Plan B, should I be around the house, cook dinner for myself, seem content, etc, but not interact until I can move out (ie, try to leave a good impression before I leave), or wait to move out, or avoid the house as much as possible and move out quickly or what?

I don't see any hope for my marriage, but I think I need to try one last thing. If anyone reads this, I could use some prayers for our marriage, for my H to soften his heart towards me and recommit to his vows and for strength and wisdom for myself.

Finally, here is my draft Plan B letter. It's a little modified b/c it may show up in court.
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Plan B Letter:
Dear H,
You are my husband and I love you. I am sorry that you think I worked too much and I wasn't there for you when you needed me. I am also sorry that you felt I was unable to meet your needs this past summer when I had a medical issue, and that you decided to go outside of our marriage and begin a relationship with Katy. Since then, you have been saying negative things about our relationship and about me. I understand that you need to believe that these things are true because it helps you to feel better about what you are doing. However, they are not true and I think you know this deep inside.

Just a week ago you told me that you still love me and that you are willing to put "everything" into making our marriage work if you can believe that it is possible. H, it is possible. When I married you, it was for life, which means that I made a promise to never give up on our marriage or our love no matter what happens. I know that we can repair our relationship and have a loving and happy marriage that fulfills all of each other's needs.

However, we cannot do this, and I cannot even discuss any aspect of our relationship with you, while you are having an affair (or any other inappropriate relationships with other women), or while you continue to say disrespectful things to me. Last Thursday you called me at my office to discuss our relationship and you said things to me that no one should have to hear, especially not your wife. This type of treatment and your continued affair are so hurtful that they are destroying the love and admiration that I have for you. In order to protect those feelings, I must end all contact with you until the affair and the disrespectful treatment stops. When that occurs, I am happy to talk to you about our relationship and our marriage.

Until then, please respect my wish not to have any contact with you except when necessary, such as issues relating to our household or to [our dog]. H, I have not cheated on you and I will continue to keep my marriage vows to you regardless of what you do or whether you want to believe that this is true.

Also, it is too painful for me to live in the same house with you while you are having an affair, and since you refuse to grant me the courtesy of moving out, I will leave once I have found a suitable place for me and for [our dog].

I hope that you can undertand my decisions and that you decide to recommit to our marriage. Please take care of yourself while we are apart.

Love always, your wife,

Oldsoul

P.S. [to ow] - Your relationship with my husband has damaged our marriage and is interfering with my efforts to fix the problems in our relationship. I am sure that you are a good person, so I can only imagine that either you think, or that you have been told, untrue things about our marriage or about me, which cause you to believe that your relationship with my H is not wrong or it is not hurting anyone. I will not try to convince you of the truth. All I can do is ask that you respect our marriage and yourself by ending your relationship, and all contact, with my husband.
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Ok - thoughts/advice/comments? any and all comments are appreciated - if I could choose better words or anything for the letter, don't be shy

Thank you for your help!!!

OldSoul,

These comments come from another dying soul, so take them with a grain of salt. I feel your pain, and I'm in a very similar situation.

I think the detail and content of your letter is great. These are things he needs to know, and things you need to say. I also think the postscript to the other woman is good, too. These are things she needs to hear. (I told my wife's lover these same things over the phone this past weekend).

I'd like to offer a bit of constructive criticism regarding the wording of the first paragraph. It feels as though it has a tone of accusation. To say "I am sorry that you ..." followed by a pointing finger seems to go against the idea of the Plan B letter. Perhaps saying, "It hurts me that you ..." might work better.

My understanding of the Plan B letter is that it should be a love letter. "I love you and I want to make this work, you're hurting me, so I have to separate myself from the hurt, but I still love you and want you back." I think the first paragraph lacks this emotion, but that the rest of the letter is great.

If I were in your shoes, I would find a place to live first, move out, and then deliver the letter. As long as you're still in that house you are still in Plan A. I hope others will comment about this, as I'm not quite where you are yet.

My heart goes out to you, and I wish you the best.


Dying_in_Dallas

Dear Oldsoul - I have to agree with D.I.D that you should send this letter once you have left the home. Plan B will definately be more effective if you are away. I also agree about changing some of the wording just a little bit - hang in there, hopefully he will come to his senses - my prayers are with you -

I am sorry that you think I worked too much and I wasn't there for you when you needed me. I am also sorry that you felt I was unable to meet your needs this past summer when I had a medical issue, and that you decided to go outside of our marriage and begin a relationship with Katy. Since then, you have been saying negative things about our relationship and about me. I understand that you need to believe that these things are true because it helps you to feel better about what you are doing. However, they are not true and I think you know this deep inside.
Delete this. It’s full of HIS faults and problems.

Last Thursday you called me at my office to discuss our relationship and you said things to me that no one should have to hear, especially not your wife. This type of treatment
Leave this out EVEN if it is true. It’s not about anything he did/is doing except his affair.

I must end all contact with you until the affair and the disrespectful treatment stops. When that occurs, I am happy to talk to you about our relationship and our marriage.
I’d change this to;
“I must end all contact with you. This is not to punish you or hurt you in any way but because I am so hurt by your continued affair. If I continue to be exposed to this, I will lose my love for you and I do not wish for this to happen. When your affair is over, we can discuss our future together.

Until then, please respect my wish not to have any contact with you except when necessary, such as issues relating to our household or to [our dog].
He will interpret “except as necessary” to be whenever he wants.
You don’t really need to discuss the dog. And anything about the house should be extremely minimal, especially when one of you moves out.
This should all be sorted out by you BEFORE you go to Plan B.

H, I have not cheated on you and I will continue to keep my marriage vows to you regardless of what you do or whether you want to believe that this is true.
Does he suspect you cheated? If he doesn’t or has said it because he’s mad leave it out.

Also, it is too painful for me to live in the same house with you while you are having an affair, and since you refuse to grant me the courtesy of moving out, I will leave once I have found a suitable place for me and for [our dog].
If he doesn’t move out, then you will already have it sorted out BEFOE you give him the letter


Change last para to;
P.S. [to ow] - Your relationship with my husband has damaged our marriage and is interfering with my efforts to fix the problems in our relationship. All I can do is ask that you respect our marriage and yourself by ending your relationship, and all contact, with my husband.
I am waiting for him to give me the chance to repair our marriage.

The reason you send it to op is to let them know where you stand on your marriage. Usually, the ws lie sup a storm & tells them they were kicked out or that the bs is holding up a divorce (which is usually not even filed).

Thank you for the comments. Here's what I'm hearing so far...continue (or actually re-start) Plan A while I find a place to live. When I move out, give my H the letter and give a copy to OW. Should I give a copy to OW's parents?

Also, should I delay the move so that I can Plan A longer (possible Love Bank credits?) or just hurry up and Plan B because of our situation (already negotiating settlement). Sorry if I'm being slow, I just don't want to make more wrong moves/decisions.

Also, I hear that my letter needs to be more loving - here's the revised version - note there is also an extra sentence at the end of the P.S. to OW. Two more quetions - the "medical issue" was depression most likely caused by a problem w/ my ovaries that made my hormones fluctuate (cause cannot be determined for sure) - I guess I could just say "depression", but my H thinks that I should have been able to control how I felt (that depression is not a medical problem) and he thinks it will always be a problem for me and that I'll never meet his needs, but I also don't want to look like I'm saying something misleading in my letter which will just make him angry -- should I just say "depression" or "depression caused by a medical condition"? Also, when I hit Plan B, should I have an intermediary all contact, even things relating to household or him spending time with the dog?

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Dear H,

You are my husband and I truly love you. I am deeply sorry that you think I worked too much and I wasn't there for you when you needed me. It hurts me more than you can imagine that earlier this year when I had a medical condition and I didn't meet your needs, you decided to go outside of our marriage and begin a relationship with OW.

Just a week ago you told me again that you still love me and that you are willing to put "everything" into making our marriage work if I can show you that it is possible. H, it is possible. When I married you, it was for life, which means that I made a promise to never give up on our marriage or our love no matter what happens. I know that we can repair our relationship and that we can have a loving, happy marriage that fulfills all of each other's needs.

However, we cannot have a relationship or even discuss our relationship while you are having an affair or any other inappropriate relationships outside of our marriage, or while you continue to say disrespectful things to me. The affair and this type of treatment are so painful for me that they are destroying the love and admiration that I have for you. In order to protect my feelings for you, I must distance myself from these painful things by ending all contact with you until the affair and the hurtful treatment has ended. When that occurs, I would be happy to talk to you about our relationship and our future.

Until then, please respect my wish not to have any contact with you. Because you are unwilling to move out of the house even temporarily, I have moved to an apartment with [dog]. If you need to reach me for any reason, you can do so through [ ].

I hope that you can understand my decisions and I hope that you decide to recommit to our marriage. It is important to me that you know that regardless of what you do, what you decide, or what you believe, I have not cheated on you and I will continue to keep my marriage vows to you. Please take care of yourself while we are apart.

Love always, your wife,

Oldsoul

P.S. [to ow] - Your relationship with my husband has damaged our marriage and is interfering with my efforts to fix the problems in our relationship. I am sure that you are a good person, so I can only imagine that either you think, or that you have been told, untrue things about our marriage or about me, and that these things cause you to believe that your relationship with my H is not wrong or it is not hurting anyone. I will not try to convince you of the truth. All I can do is ask that you respect our marriage and yourself by ending your relationship, and all contact, with my husband. Please know that I bear no hard feelings towards you.

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OK - comments? advice? rewrites? be brutal, please, this is hard for me to write and I think it's too long...

P.S. [to ow] - Your relationship with my husband has damaged our marriage and is interfering with my efforts to fix the problems in our relationship. I am sure that you are a good person, so I can only imagine that either you think, or that you have been told, untrue things about our marriage or about me, and that these things cause you to believe that your relationship with my H is not wrong or it is not hurting anyone. I will not try to convince you of the truth. All I can do is ask that you respect our marriage and yourself by ending your relationship, and all contact, with my husband. Please know that I bear no hard feelings towards you.
Too much.
Make it;
"I love my husband and want our marraige to work. I am waiting for him to give me this chance."

Have you considered call Steve or Jennifer Harley?
I highly recommend it.

Chris - Thank you for your help!! I didn't see your comments before I posted the 2nd version. Here is the latest draft w/ your comments and some questions in brackets. I have had some counseling w/ the Harleys (2x), but we didn't go over the details of my letter - he suggested running it by people on the board b/c we ran out of time during the session.

Also, I should make it clear that my H says the OW is fully aware of any and all problems we have (they talk all the time about us- ugh) and I should also note that he has filed for divorce (but it wasn't served on me for technical reasons and he didn't tell me about it, but I think he would have if not for the technical problem). So, I don't think this is the typical situation where the H has doubts - I think he is already out the door and made this decision a while ago and I'm just now learning and catching up. Does this change any of your advice? Also, should I try to Plan A some more while I find a place to live? Or should I hurry up w/ Plan B and the move or is that just making H's life more comfortable while he continues his affair and therefore less likely to reconcile?

Also, my H has been verbally and emotionally abusive, and I don't use those terms lightly. He thinks I am "too sensitive" but others who have heard him think that it's bad and so do I. I thought I was supposed to include this in the letter, but I will admit that it will just anger him if I mention it and maybe that's something we address if we try to reconcile.

I'm so lost - I think all of this is hopeless -I've done so many LBs lately because of the A and the cruel things he says to me about her and about me (I even started to have bad dreams about what he says to me) - I just don't know how to find my way back out of this hole and I can't stop crying b/c I know my H has absolutely no interest in the marriage and he seems to completely hate me. They will just laugh at the letter or think I'm crazy or I'm trying to "manipulate him" or he'll tell me again to "get on with my life" and have some pride.

Today I saw a post that was written by Penny titled "Did you mean it" - I thought about attaching it to my letter to H, or maybe even giving him a copy now and telling him that I know I haven't communicated well with him lately, but this letter captures how I feel about my marriage vows and, therefore, why I'm hurt that he doesn't feel the same way. What do you think?

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Dear H,

You are my husband and I truly love you. I am deeply sorry that I did not meet your needs and that you decided to go outside of our marriage and begin a relationship with OW. [I left some of this in b/c I thought I was supposed to confess not meeting his needs - should I add that I worked too much? (a complaint) why not add that I was depressed this summer and that I'm ok now and I can meet his needs? (he thinks I can't)]

Just a week ago you told me again that you still love me and that you are willing to put "everything" into making our marriage work if I can show you that it is possible. H, it is possible. When I married you, it was for life, which means that I made a promise to never give up on our marriage or our love no matter what happens. I know that we can repair our relationship and that we can have a loving, happy marriage that fulfills all of each other's needs.

However, we cannot have this or discuss our relationship while you are having an affair. [leave out the verbal abuse?] I must end all contact with you and move out of the house because you are unwilling to leave. This is not to punish you or hurt you in any way but because I am so hurt by your continued affair. [again, mention cruel statements or just leave it alone?] If I continue to be exposed to this, I will lose my love for you and I do not wish for this to happen. When your affair is over, we can discuss our future together.

Until then, please respect my wish not to have any contact with you. Please know that regardless of what you decide or what you want to believe, I have not cheated on you and I will continue to keep my marriage vows to you. [my H is convinced that I cheated on him, but I have not - we keep arguing about it and I think it is one of the reasons why he wanted to leave the marriage - this is so hard b/c I really have been faithful but he won't believe me]

I hope that you can understand my decisions and that you decide to recommit to our marriage. Please take care of yourself while we are apart.

Love always, your wife,

Oldsoul

P.S. [to ow] - Your relationship with my husband has damaged our marriage and is interfering with my efforts to fix the problems in our relationship. All I can do is ask that you respect our marriage and yourself by ending your relationship, and all contact, with my husband.

I love my husband and I want our marriage to work. I am waiting for him to give me the chance to repair our marriage.

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OK - first, thanks again for helping me with this letter. Feel free to edit at will - it's very hard for me to get this right...

I should make it clear that my H says the OW is fully aware of any and all problems we have
That's what HE says. But she only know what he told her. The letter makes sure that the ow KNOWS what YOU want.

I should also note that he has filed for divorce (but it wasn't served on me for technical reasons and he didn't tell me about it
So if you were not served, did you sign a waiver of service paper?

I don't think this is the typical situation where the H has doubts - I think he is already out the door and made this decision a while ago and I'm just now learning and catching up.
Most ws don't have "doubts", especially if it happens quickly.
But they DO want to get it over as quickly as possible because running (rather than walking) through the fire will hurt less NOW. They think they won't want to change their mind.

Does this change any of your advice?
No.

Also, should I try to Plan A some more while I find a place to live?
Absolutely. And trying to find a place is not something you should advertise to him.

should I add that I worked too much? (a complaint) why not add that I was depressed this summer and that I'm ok now and I can meet his needs? (he thinks I can't)
It's okay if you put in about why/how you failed in meeting his needs but it should not be percieved as sarcastic in any way. Also, you should put in that you are learning (reading "His needs, Her needs", MB principles, whatever) what makes relationships work and you are trying to put this into practice.

again, mention cruel statements or just leave it alone?
Do not mention of why he is an a-hole except his affair hurts you.

my H is convinced that I cheated on him, but I have not
Then put simply something like, "I'm sorry if you think I had an affair/fling/whatever but I didn't. I am trying to look at it from your point of view to see why you would think that" (do you have any idea why he would think that?

Chris - Here's my responses a just a coupel of questions - sorry if I'm being slow today (too much crying & too little sleep), but I think I'm getting some conflicting advice....

So if you were not served, did you sign a waiver of service paper? A: no, he didn't meet the 12 month residency requirement so had to w/draw.

Question re Plan A We had a huge fight last week (see my other post if necessary) and I basically gave H a very bad version of a Plan B letter (cannot talk to you anymore b/c you're so hurtful) and we are really not talking at all - totally avoiding each other although living in the same house - how do I backtrack and do some more Plan A now? Maybe Penny's article would be an intro??

Re: "...And trying to find a place is not something you should advertise to him." Well, too late, I agreed to that b/c we already met w/ the lawyers for our first negotiation and I can't afford the house. Not much to do there...

Q re moving out: Dr. H advised me to go ahead and get the apt and do Plan B b/c things are so bad, but I don't think I made it clear that I had made a bunch of w/drawals from the bank and my account may be in the red...so I'll try to Plan A - again, I'm not sure how to even open this up when he hides in the other bedroom, or isn't home, or we don't talk...

Q re failure to meet his needs: I wouldn't mind leaving this out so that he can't use it in the divorce, but I also want him to know that my depression is over & the medical problem fixed - i.e., I am capable of meeting his needs - he says I can't and therefore he refusees (w/ great emotion) to end his A w/ OW and says he will just continue to have A's (that really stung) - do I address this now or later?

Q: Do you have any idea why he would think that you had an affair? A: I think the real story is that it's because he's having an A (I think he's had prior flings as well) and he just projects onto me. He constantly accuses me of doing the bad things that he's doing - e.g., his dirty dishes are mine even when you can see food on them that I never eat. I digress...the reason is that I work full days w/ lots of men and often have to take calls late at night and/or on the weekends - it happens w/ all my clients and the people that I'm teamed up w/ on documents, and sometimes we order food in if we're working late but nothing ever happens - I'm not even tempted, anyway, to my H it all adds up to an A. He thinks this occurred before we were married, and he brought it up long before we were married, I thought it was resolved, and I think he's just resurrecting it now b/c he wants to feel better about what he's doing. No matter what I say or do, he seems convinced, and even told his friends and family that I had an A - completely untrue and totally embarrassing for me. Why would he marry me if he really believed this? It's so frustrating to be accused of something (and punished for something) that you haven't done, especially when he's the one who IS doing it. Anyway...

Thanks again for your help - it means a lot to me. Anything else I should do? I feel like it is so hopeless and I'm so, so heartbroken and devastated. I really can't imagine treating any person, let alone someone you married, like this. Sometimes I still can't believe he is doing this b/c I just can't take in the depth and breadth of the betrayal. Again, I digress... thanks for your time.