John,<P>That's a good start. But try not to make comments, however subtle and well meaning you are. She will see them as critical and controlling. I know because that's what I tried and my wife reacted against me.<P>The better approach is to read the book, understand the ideas, and make the changes in yourself. She will respond positively if she sees the changes in you. A great book on the subject is "How One of You Can Bring the Two of You Together" by Susan Page.<P>link to the book on Amazon: <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0767900421/qid=952954245/sr=1-1/102-9348860-0084065" TARGET=_blank>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0767900421/qid=952954245/sr=1-1/102-9348860-0084065</A> <P>I'm reading it and trying to put it into practice myself.<P>Good luck,<BR>Kenneth

keepontrying,<BR> This is Shawna. I noticed you used my name in your reply. Funny how that can thrill a person.<BR>My H has gotten so awful. I picked him up from work on friday and on the way home he told me he wants a divorce.<BR>I didn't say much, but am glad. I can't stand him any more. He only looks out for himself and if it doesn't serve him in one way or another he won't do it.<P> On saturday he found out he may need to take custady of his 13 year old daughter and the first thing out of his mouth was good I won't have to pay child suport any more. That makes me sick and I like him even less now.(if that's at all possible) Then he realised he just told me he wants a divorce and tried to renig on that because he needs somebody to watch his daughter. I love his daughter and so does my daughter. (same age as his) I told him I will take care of her even when I don't live with you.<BR>I thought I made it clear he was no longer haveing me as his wife, but lo and behold he tried to get me in bed with him for sex.<BR>I've been sleeping on the couch. I wouldn't do it so the next day he informed me he wants me out by the first of April or he'll call the cops and have me thrown out. <P>I'm sorry I have to go now. He's home.<P>Shawna<P>------------------<BR>

Kenneth,<P>I have been thinking about the nature of my relationship with my wife as we work our way through this trouble spot. I seem to be reviewing our past interactions and wonder about a few things.<P>You see my wife is a very wonderful person. She however is very introverted to the point that she rarely expresses herself fully and openly even with me. Sometimes I think she wants to but is fearful of letting go of her emotions. In the 8 years we have been together she has rarely cried; when she has cried it is very short and masked.<P>In that same time she has never expressed her deepest feelings about us or me. I often feel compelled to tell her how much I love her and appreciate her as a person, as my wife and how deep my feelings are for her. I have do not recall an instance where I have gotten that from her. <P>Even when we make love she does not express herself or talk to me about her feelings. I would love to know what she is thinking when we are close but she never reveals that to me. I make it known to her what I am feeling and how very close to her I feel emotionally and spiritually when we are intimate.<P>As we approach our first couseling session I wonder how I should broach these subjects. I would like to see her develop into a more open and expressful personality. Do you think therapy will help? I am viewingthis as learning opp. and experience. I only hope she is. <P>

My experience with my husband is very similar and I would love to have opinions on what I should do. We have been married for 13 years, and throughout that time, my husband has maintained a pattern of being very angry and grumpy with me most of the time. When I try to talk to him about why he always angry, he gets even more angry with me. This is with no feedback on his part at all. I just ask him why is he angry. He won't participate in a 2 way conversation with me. He physically turns his back on me...won't look at me even when I ask (or eventually beg). Then he just blows up and says we should just get divorced. After such a blow-up he becomes very apologetic and wants to just forget it. A few years ago, I told him never to mention divorce to me again, or I would go through with it. Well.... he mentioned it last weekend. Of course, ever since then he's<BR>been sweet as can be. Throughout the years I've asked him to go to counseling to help us get to the bottom of why he'd rather be angry with me than be my friend. He absolutely refuses to go. I have basically told him now that we either go to counseling or I will follow through with his suggestion (of<BR>divorce). He still refuses and is saying I am giving him an ultimatum. I say he gave me only one choice when he said "let's get divorced", and that I'm giving him a 2nd choice. I've tried his way (forget it and just don't ever mention it again) about 6 or 700 times. I do not think it's unfair for me to expect him to try my way once. I have an appointment to see an attorney tomorrow. I really don't want a divorce, I want this cycle to end!!!! I hope someone has a helpful<BR>suggestion. All he needs to do at this point is agree to see a counselor! He is the most extreme non-negotiator I've ever met. There is only "his way". Any attempts to even discuss my opinion are immediately turned into a fight by him. I am totally tired of this attitude, and I am insisting on the counselor because I really don't see how one person can do anything to fix a marriage if the other person won't even try at all.

Kenneth and all, I have been married to a non-negotiator who has actually participated, dragged kicking and screaming into some negotiations at certain times. Why? Because he KNOWS divorce is a ready option and he is terrified that I might really do it. Only when he knows that he has NOTHING to threaten me with do negotiations or normal conversations begin. He is too frightened of prison to ever touch me or push me in anger. (OJ may well have saved my life!)<P>I am just dying to file our divorce by now too. He only needs to give me good cause one more time. Unfortunately, I still pull my punches, don't press on most things, certainly do not give him any openness or honesty. I've been punished mercilessly every time I've opened up to him in the past. I've learned my lesson and I'm not that stupid. Next time I reveal anything it will be to provoke the divorce. When should I reveal my EA? That might do it. Or might provoke real negotiations and start making a marriage out of this situation!<P>K

Karenna, I hope you'll go read what I just posted under Women's Bible Study, in the top post by Alcoholic's wife. I have posted twice there, and the thread is very similar. I have just learned a few very important things - very much like you. I really feel I'm on a mission now to teach women that they're treated like dirt because they stay and TAKE it. Wish I'd known that years ago, but I know it now, and I won't take it another day. So hop over there, and tell me what you think!!!!<p>[This message has been edited by CindyM (edited March 22, 2000).]

John,<P>Your wife sounds like alot like mine. She may be withholding her feelings from you because she doesn't want to hurt you. She may feel she doesn't have a right to put her feelings onto you. If that is the case let her know you care about her and respect her feelings. Tell you can take hearing her feelings, even if it does hurt, it's for the best.<P>Good luck with therapy. <P>Kenneth