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Joined: Nov 2001
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Tired,<p>I am sorry if it sounds as if I am siding against you. I don't mean to do that. You absolutely have a right to not have disrespectful judgements or anger in conversation. However, I agree with some of the things that your H is saying.<p>Again, I have to ask, are you focusing on the words or the message? Your H probably needs to learn to communicate in a better way and that is why I advised whispering, but the fact is that you need to deal with his valid issues. This isn't about deal with his method of talking and when he has it right only then can we deal with his issues. Your H needs to deal with the things that are bothering you and you need to deal with the things that are bothering him.<p>I am not trying to say anyone is wrong although maybe I have done that. If I have, I apologize.<p>Your H loves you and what I ask is if he can put his anger and resentment and such aside. Talk nice and whisper. You love your H and what I am suggesting is that sometimes you have to overlook his inability to communicate well and overlook the words to focus on what is hurting him. We are guys and we suck at communicating. You have to work as much as possible with what is there.<p>Does that make sense to you?

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Dear Spt_fl,<p>Yes it makes sense, always has! I know what I need to do and am committed to doing it. I just want to feel heard too. I think everyone needs to feel heard. The good news is my husband and I are so damn stubborn we aren't going to give up easily! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

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{{{{TBT}}}},
I'm really sorry for making you feel bad. I didn't mean for that to happen. I know I need to improve how I communicate. I can see that my post was really offensive. I just simply don't get it yet. I really love you and I'm very sorry that I LB'ed you.<p>stw
[img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>sometimes i should be named saythewrongwords.<p>[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: saythewords ]</p>

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TBT,<p>I don't know if this is clear already, or if it's worth presenting it one more time, but I'll have a go.<p>Your H's perception of your relationship seems to be that it's not mutual. All right, so you have a hobby. Sometimes we take up time with a hobby that our partners would prefer us to spend with them. Sometimes. You're trying to avoid doing that, so if your H asks you to do something with him instead, then you'll oblige him. What's more, if you want to spend time on your hobby, you're checking with him first to see if that's all right with him. So far, so good. But that's not enough. What if he didn't ask you to do anything with him instead? Then it seems that you'd choose to spend time on your hobby. What if you checked with him and he said he didn't mind what you did? Again it seems that you'd choose to spend time on your hobby. He thinks that if he never withheld permission or made any requests of you, then you'd spend as much time on your hobby as you possibly could. In his perception, given a free choice, you'd choose to spend all your time on your hobby and none with him.<p>And how often does this happen the other way round? Is it even-Stephen? That's the point. How often does he feel he has to check with you to see if it's all right for him to do something, because you might want him to spend the time with you instead? How often do you ask him to do something with you instead of something he might want to do on his own? And by the way, you mentioned "family" activities, but those alone don't count if the kids are always along. I'm talking about wanting time with him, by yourselves, for the sake of being with him.<p>His perception is that he's pursuing you all the time, but you're not pursuing him. That he wants time with you for the sake of enjoying it, but you don't want time with him for the sake of enjoying that. And you've pretty much confirmed this by saying you're "walking on eggshells" when you're around him and all the rest of it.<p>Now maybe the problem with this so-called "disrespectful judgment" stuff is that it means expressing needs in a negative way, as a criticism of what's wrong, rather than in a positive way, as a request to do something right. If that's the case, then if you think your H is pulling DJs on you, you're pulling DJs on him as well, because I'm hearing criticism of the way he voices his discontent to you, not what you think he ought to be saying instead.<p>If you don't like the way he expresses his needs, then maybe you can ask him to express them in a different way. And maybe he could choose to comply with your request. That's a vital point: a request has to be doable. And if he's having trouble figuring out what to say, why don't you give him some help? But what exactly would you want him to say? He has a request to make of you in return. What is it that he wants you to do for him?<p>I'd say he wants you to want time with him. But is that doable? If you didn't like anchovies and I asked you to "want" anchovies on your pizza, could you comply? I hope you see his problem in making a request like that! "Wanting" can only be something you do entirely of your own volition. "Asking" you or "telling" you to "want something" is meaningless. Perhaps it's not surprising that he's having difficulty.<p>Mind you, I'm sure there are solutions to this. Perhaps your H has feelings that he's not expressing as feelings. As you put it, he's saying "I feel that you do such-and-such," rather than "I feel neglected, unloved (or whatever) when you do such-and-such." But to be honest, I am not bothered by the words he used. The angry tone may be something else, and is better avoided. The meaning, however, should be clear enough. I didn't see anything inconsiderate in your H's post for that matter.<p>The problem on your side seems to be that you're so preoccupied with your own "sensitivity" and defending yourself that you're not exploring and dealing with his issues and acknowledging his feelings. It's possible that he's not always doing the same for you either--I don't know--though his post did show concern for you. But if either of you insists on all this "feeling safe" and "protecting yourself" at the expense of listening and responding to what was said, you won't have a marriage.<p>The next time he says anything like this, try to forget yourself and focus entirely on him instead. Don't try to derail him by protesting about what you have done, by telling him that he "ought" to feel such-and-such, or by criticizing the way he expresses himself. That just causes more frustration on his part if what he's really trying to express is not being heard and acknowledged. All this stuff about "disrespectful judgments" and "selfish demands" needs prioritizing as well, because in the end those things are less important than validating feelings and getting needs met. Tell him you understand that he's angry (or hurt), and show him that you know what he's angry about. If you don't entirely understand what he's angry about, ask him to clarify it. Ask him what he wants instead.<p>And while you can't exactly "decide to want" something, you can certainly "demonstrate wanting" in the sense of expressing to your H a wish to spend time with him, and being enthusiastic about it. When people "act as if" they like one another, that can create a genuine liking and appreciation for one another.<p>Failing that, my advice to him would be to stop pursuing you for time; in fact to stay away from you far more than he does, and oblige you to start pursuing him instead for any time you want together. But if he feels neglected for long enough he'll withdraw from you and start doing that on his own anyway, so one way or another he'll solve his own problem eventually.

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SayTheWords and Tired,<p>How are y'all doing?

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