Kitty,<br>Get rid of that loser you're married to! An alcoholic and one who hits women? Your self esteem has truly been damaged throughout your life. Go to a shelter, or one of your sister's houses (as long as one of them has a sane life) and start divorce proceedings. Then get yourself a decent job, act like a professional, and be very discriminating about the men you date! It amazes me when I read about women who stand by men who have no respect for themselves or anyone else!<p>In my earlier post, I was just upset that my husband is rarely in the mood. But, he's such a wonderful, loving, caring and intelligent, respectful guy. He's worth keeping. You should definetly move on and find a good therapist to work through those awful lifelong problems that your parents caused! Good luck and remember, you should only expect the best! <p>[This message has been edited by landi (edited 01-09-99).]

To landi.........Hmmm....I'm sitting here trying to figure out why you write in your post that I need to "get a decent job and act like a professional". I am a multimedia designer (that's designing electronic interfaces, virtual environments, DVD ROM, etc.) and I am currently working on my second degree. In some way you have stereotyped me into being a complete loser in life because my husband hit me once and I have a past history of abuse. This is the kind of thing that happens to people who come from all economic backgrounds. My husband and I are certainly not rich but that has more to do with our ages and the fact that we are still going through school than our level of professionalism or our lack of a decent job! Perhaps one of the things which prohibits people from speaking out about their abuse is this kind of stereotyping. Goodbye to this forum.

I know exactly how you all are feeling. What I don't know is how to fix it. I am the W of an attrative 50 yr old man. We get along very well. Three months ago sex just stopped. He says he cant. I think he wont. I spend buckets of time wondering what I did, is he seeing somone else, am I ugly or disgusting and why he doesn't love me anymore. I asked him to see a doctor but so far nothing. I asked him to see a counsler but so far nothing. I really need a loving sexual relationship and I am willing to try anything (almost). Any suggestions? The suitation makes me feel sad, lonley, & rejected. I don't have answers. I'm hoping someone here might. <p>[This message has been edited by Christine (edited 01-12-99).]

My story is the same as many of the others. Wife had no interest in sex. She was always going to work on it, do better. But, sex once a month was rare and I sure can relate to the expensive dinner and all you get is snoring afterwards. It finally got to the point where we went into counseling and she did reveal that she is gay. Has been in an affair for the last 5 years. She broke off the relationship and went through the withdrawl that is talked about here. We have 3 children under 12. My life has been hell. She wants to make this work, and seems to be serious working with the advise found here. I'm trying to overcome the resentment. But in reading the many resources here, I always end up asking myself, if she really isn't attracted to men (as she says) how could learning about and avoiding love busters, for example, make any difference?

My story is the same as many of the others. Wife had no interest in sex. She was always going to work on it, do better. But, sex once a month was rare and I sure can relate to the expensive dinner and all you get is snoring afterwards. It finally got to the point where we went into counseling and she did reveal that she is gay. Has been in an affair for the last 5 years. She broke off the relationship and went through the withdrawl that is talked about here. We have 3 children under 12. My life has been hell. She wants to make this work, and seems to be serious working with the advise found here. I'm trying to overcome the resentment. But in reading the many resources here, I always end up asking myself, if she really isn't attracted to men (as she says) how could learning about and avoiding love busters, for example, make any difference?

Unfortunately, all I can offer to each of you who are frustrated is a lot of compassion and sympathy. I've been married twenty years and can tell a similar story. My husband has a strong sex drive but the problem is he uses sex for his own gratification only. I've tried everything I can think of to encourage him to make it a mutual experience--sexy nighties, waking him up in the wee hours for a surprise, endless numbers of nooners while the kids are at school, etc... After all that, I'd still have fingers left over if I were to count the number of times in twenty years he's done more than satisfy himself. I'm not asking for much--just ten minutes now and again.

Beanie,<p>Maybe your H has a problem with "technique" (possibly in addition to failing to know and meet your needs) It's not unusual (or so I've heard) for women to need a lot more time and attention to experience satisfying sex than men do. (Guys, you know this, right? Of course you do.)<p>In addition to "His Needs, Her Needs", maybe you and your H should look into a book called "Intended for Pleasure". (forgot the author, sorry) It's written from a Christian viewpoint (sex within marriage is a GOOD thing, and God intended for it to be that way)<p>There's plenty of excercises in it that show him how to please you - and not just himself. <p>Then again, maybe just HNHN would be enough, if your husband KNOWS how to satisfy you, but won't. <p>Val

Thanks Val. I've bought him books and they collect dust. He knows how and he doesn't have any problems with how he views sex. He knows it's for pleasure and is very comfortable talking about it. As far as me needing a lot more time and attention, I don't think 10 minutes of straight intercourse is a lot to ask for once in a while. I'm not asking for foreplay or anything else. But my husband prefers quickies whether there's a reason (kids around or whatever) to have it that way or not. When I talk with him about it, he shines me on and says that he enjoys mutual sex. But then in bed he gets so involved in his own pleasure, I just feel like a tool instead of a partner. The problem is, I'm starting to resent the fact that he likes his two or three times a week yet thinks I ought to be satisfied with once every two or three years. Guess after twenty years I just ought to accept things the way they are.

Beanie,<p> I DON'T think that after 20 years you should have to "get used to it". He need to understand that satisfaction is just as important for you as it is for him. How would he feel if you jumped out of bed when he was halfway through? Probably the same way you feel. <p> You mention not wanting foreplay. I could be wrong (ask anybody!) but foreplay is a huge part of a woman's enjoyment. He needs to engage in foreplay with you to assure that you are "ready" for intercourse and that you start to recieve stimulation before he does. It takes so much longer for a woman to go through the stages of sexual pleasure than the man. (guys, PLEASE tell me this isn't news ) You mention "10 minutes of straight intercourse". I don't think taht's gonna do it for you. I think 25 minutes or 1/2 hour of stimulation is what a woman needs (obviously, not being a woman, I have only books to rely on.)<p>When quickie sex isn't a requirement, wouldn't your husband be open and willing to help you achieve orgasm? Even WANT you to have one? <p>Could you be brave enough to help to teach your H to learn what pleases you? Would he let you take his hand and guide it to touch you where it feels good? <p>Heaven forbid, does your husband think he's a "good lover"?<p>At some point in one of his books, Harley recomends that the woman asume the position on top, astride her husband, so that SHE can be more in control of the stimulation. So that SHE can please herself, without worrying about pleasing him. <p>I would guess that your "giver" has been in control of your sex life for most of your marriage. I think your "taker" might want to get involved (since his "giver" has been out to lunch for the past 20 years)<p>I've heard some things that are strange to me here, but a man who LIKES to have sex, and a woman wants to enjoy sex sounds like a good mix. For me, I like to make sex go on as long as possible. I know that a man has limitations as to how long he can "perform", but there's nothing wrong with his hands and mouth while certain other parts are waiting their turn, or recovering from recent activity.<p>Beanie - why don't you start a new thread with your topic. Maybe some other people have advice, but didn't see your post so far into this thread.<p>Also, please don't be afraid to ASK for what you want, even demand it if you have to. Just as men who don't get their sexual needs met at home are in danger of having an affair, so are women - regardless of how much they love and are devoted to their husbands. Just think of all the unsatisfied men out here feel when they know there's a wanting woman out there. They think "there's somebody who would appreciate me". I know, because that's how I feel from time to time.<p>Try to take a little more control if you can.<p>Val<p>[This message has been edited by V (edited 01-15-99).]

Beanie:<p>Ya know, I’m certainly no expert on what women like during sex. My knowledge is limited to A) stuff I’ve heard (probably a lot of BS), B) stuff I’ve read, and C) my own wife’s reactions during our infrequent encounters. No other ‘real’ experience, ‘cause my wife’s been my ‘one and only'.<p>When we’re intimate, I usually ask her what she would like me to do. Occasionally she’ll tell me, but usually I get a non-convincing "Nothing. It’s OK," which translates to: "Let’s just get this over with." But I want HER to enjoy it too. I’d be MORE than willing to give her ANY (and I do mean ‘any’) kind of stimulation and caressing that I was physically able to do, if she would just tell me what she likes.<p>You mentioned that you were not asking for foreplay, but wanted 10 minutes of ‘straight intercourse’. I assume this isn’t because you don’t care for foreplay, but rather, you don’t think your hubby is interested in ‘preliminaries’. Like Val said, it generally takes women much longer to go through the stages. (Sometimes it takes over 3 months, Val ) It’s possible your husband has just given up. Maybe he’s learned that he just can’t continue ‘straight intercourse’ long enough to satisfy you, without climaxing himself. And he may not know any other way to sexually please you either. (Just ‘cause he might of read it in a book, doesn’t mean YOU’LL like it.) But he sure knows HE needs the release, so he may have decided to make do with quickies, not believing anything better was possible.

Doug,<p> 3 months to get a woman ready?! Well, (rolling up sleeves) It's a dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it! <p>Seriously though Beanie, Doug may have a good point about what your husband "thinks" you might like, or find acceptable or distasteful. Then again, if you said do THIS (...) and he says "yuck, that's gross", I guess I'm wrong.<p>Personally, I'm terrible about asking for exactly what I want (usually because I've asked for it in the past and heard "yuck, that's gross") We tend to get gun-shy after being shut down a few times too many. So we mope off into a corner (I mean me here, not you.)<p>I don't want to get too personal (too late for that you say? ) but what if your H did his usual quickie performance and rolled over to sleep leaving you unsatisfied - then felt the bed shaking and heard you moaning as you "finished the job yourself"? Sorry if that sounds shocking. It would certainly send the message loud and clear that YOU wanted to feel good too. I know I'd be embarrassed if my wife had to take care of her own needs when I was right there. (and should be TCB myself!)<p>Val<p>How do we go about putting a cap on this thread and starting another? Not that I don't enjoy it, just that I think Adrift isn't getting the answers he wants and there's too many new "subplots". (Even though I could be to blame for several of them...)

Thanks for your replies Val and Doug:<p>Yes, I like foreplay. But my hubby doesn't seem to like giving it. The reason I mentioned that I'd be happy with 10 minutes of straight intercourse is because, in my limited experience of mutual sex, that's about what it takes to bring me to climax. That's why I'm having a difficult time figuring out why I'm not getting more cooperation. The guy doesn't have to learn a thing and I know he's more than capable of going 10 minutes. He's done it on numerous occasions.<p>I don't think my husband thinks he's a good lover because I've been honest with him. He just doesn't seem to care.<p>And, believe me, I've tried all sorts of positions. He likes 'em all. He just likes to get to the frosting without eating the cake.<p>As far as letting my "taker" assume more of a role in my sex life--hubby's answer is to just not do anything. He's one of those "if I can't have it my way I don't want it any way" type of people that makes compromise a huge challenge.<p>I don't think he "makes do with quickies." I just think it's his preference. For instance, last April I woke him up early for some fun and for whatever reason he went the distance. I talked about how much I had enjoyed it and the fact that it sounded like he had as well. Far from smiling like he usually does, he was strangely distant and quiet like, "oh no, what have I started?" I've been wondering if it is too distracting to hear someone else having a good time. I mean, if our brains are like computers and can only process one impulse at a time, does the sound of me having a good time detract from the intensity of the signal he's getting from Mr. Happy?<p>Thanks guys. I've sure appreciated the input of other men since I'd be too embarrassed to discuss it with anyone in person.

I just want to say, that I'm female, yet I don't always need 20 minutes of foreplay to get me going! Sometimes I need some foreplay, but seeing him turned on and enjoying himself just makes me hot!! Am I weird? I don't think I've ever needed more than like 5 minutes or so of foreplay, ever! If I do go longer, it's just to tease the hell out of him and get him going crazy. Maybe I was meant to be a man...LOL!!!

Hi all. My original post seems to have generated considerable interest and discussion. I hadn't realized that misery had so much company . . . but I digress.<p>A couple of days after my original post my wife and I had a frank and extensive discussion regarding all aspects of our marriage. I introduced her to this web site and she spent several hours exploring it. We even made love for the first time in months. And again a week later. And now -- back to the same old pattern.<p>I stated clearly that I shouldn't be expected to always address areas of new and ongoing conflict. She agreed. We both agreed that the current climate in our life together needed changing or we would eventually break up.<p>We did have a comprehensive discussion about our sex life. In hind sight, it was pretty much one sided. Even though we were both being quite frank with each other, she avoided discussing sex from her perspective. <p>Anyway, we did agree to work on things, and in most areas we both have made progress. In all areas but sex. This time round I'm neither angry or frustrated -- disbelief is a more apt description.<p>Man, why is it that my wife seems to have such a difficult time with our sexual relationship. Its like she just forgets. She knows damn well that our sexual relationship is very important to me, and I know it isn't important to her. Yet, one might assume some compromise would be found.<p>I did make one demand -- that she accept equal responsability for making our marriage (in all aspects) work. As I mentioned above, she did spend several hours at this site exploring, even downloaded the form on needs. I thought to myself, finally, she is taking some steps on her own. But since the middle of December the form has gathered dust on her chest-of -drawers. Back to the same old pattern of behaviour.<p>It is sad that we have so much love in our marriage while at the same time at the point of splitting up because one key ingredient is missing. Also sad is my wife's refusal, whether intentional or not, to take her share of responsibility.<p>Do I want to continue this relationship, in its present form, until "death do us part"? I don't think so. Maybe I'm just to chicken to bite the bullet and say enough is enough. To give an ultimatum as one person responded.<p>I think many of us here have the wrong sex partners.<p>Sexlessly yours, Adrift