Hi,<BR>Anyone here used the method of "AVOIDINGT ANY TYPE OF PRESSURE TO CREATE A VACCUUM" on ws when they were in an "affair/want a divorce state of mind"...You just rolled with the punches and agreed with everything he said and did..regardless how wrong, ludicrous, bizarre, and absurb it was...no morals, adultery, financial devastation, not seeing children, and alcohol abuse...<P>If you did you use this stragegy, what are/were the results <BR>in your situation?<P>Plaase share...elo<BR>

Elo ~<P>I've been reading posts from you for awhile. You sound very scared and fearful about the turn your life is taking.<P>The general impression I get from you is a woman who is terrified, and very frantically trying to get control over her marriage. Elo, your husband is an alcoholic. He is not capable of participating in your marriage, and he is not ever going to change until <B>he chooses</B> to get help for his addiction. I'm sorry to say this hon, but there is nothing you can do about him. <P>You are scared of being alone...I know. So am I. But you have been alone for a very long time, haven't you? And look at yourself...you are surviving, and you can do this.<P>Elo, there is not a single book or psychological approach to your marriage that can possibly succeed while your husband is addicted. You can't control this and you can't manipulate him into coming back or getting help.<P>He is divorcing you. And your fears are raging out of control, and your brain is pinging around a million miles a minute trying to find the loophole, the solution, the approach that will make it all turn out OK. Your fear is screaming and it comes out in your posts. I know, because I have been there...and still go there all too often.<P>You are even willing to allow him to harm you and harm your children....if it means that he will one day reconcile. Do you see this? <P>All of the books you are reading - even the Marriage Builders philosophies....are geared towards healing and restoring marriages that involved otherwise healthy individuals who got lost along the way. The Harleys, and all the other authors of the books you are reading will all tell you without a doubt, that there is nothing to be done about your marriage as long as your husband remains an addict. <P>I should know. I've read all the books, tried everything I could imagine. I cried, begged, pleaded, threatened and manipulated. Nothing worked. Finally, Steve Harley had to tell me himself that I needed to get divorced.<BR>If you try to apply those principles to a relationship with an untreated addict, you will simply fall into enabling and doormat hood. <P>By giving your H everything he is demanding in the divorce suit, you are simply allowing him to walk away without being held accountable for his actions. This is enabling him to continue on this path. Laying down, and making a martyr of yourself will not save your marriage, and will harm you and your kids.<P>It's time to wake up now hon. Time to take responsiblity for your life and your children. You need to make sure that they are taken care of in the NOW. Don't let them be neglected because you HOPE that by doing so, your H might come home again.<P>Elo, hon, you need to turn all this energy that you are spending on trying to fix your marriage onto yourself. Living with alcoholism is a traumatic experience. We become even more dysfunctional than the alcoholic themselves. <P>I'd strongly encourage you to do 2 things. Put yourself and your kids first. Get an attorney if you don't have one, and start demanding what is best for you and for your kids. Make sure that you are taken care of and that you can take care of your kids. YOU are the mother. <B>Your job right now is to protect your children's financial, physical, emotional and moral well being.</B><P>You can not control what your H is doing. Leave him alone and focus on your kids.<P>The second thing I would ask you to do is to get to an Al-Anon meeting. You need this for recovery and healing for yourself. Call your local Al-Anon service and get a meeting list....and go!!! Do this for you...put your energies into yourself, so that you will be best prepared to take on this job of singleparenting.<P>You will be ok. Being alone is scary. But you are already alone and making it...remind yourself that.<P>((((((Hugs))))))<P>--BR<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

elo, see what it is that Bramblerose writes, print her reply out and kept it with you, she did a wonderful job writing. You have to take care of yourself and your kids. <P>You can't fix anyone else or their problems for them, make the changes that you need to for yourself and remain strong it will be hard. That is why I said to print out Bramblerose's reply, there is alot of strength to be gained there, use it.<P>God's blessings to you!!

The previous writers are absoutely right. My WH is not an alcoholic, but I belive he is a sexaholic and hooked on porno,just another addiction. I tried everything, Plan A with treating him like a king after discovering the A, letting sleep with her and then me. I tried the biblical approach trying to be the Proverbs woman 24/7. I had always tried that, but now had to do everything in the marriage, as he was not emotionally here, just in body. After 6 months of Plan A, WH said he couldn't handle it and left to be with OW. So we have been on plan B since then. I have only seen and talked to him one time in those 3 months. I know exactly how you feel, but there is nothing YOU can do to change another person. You can only change yourself, you must concentrate on yourself now, find out what you want, and quit worrying about him. He will have to hit rock bottom probably before he wants help, same as my WH, which I believe he is close, but by the time he gets help I will have fixed myself enough to move on. THat is what you must do in either case, fix yourself to move on or if he fixes himself, you still have gained the security of knowing that you are a better person. Good luck, you can do it, I am and it's getting better everyday! I am finally even laughing and looking forward to the next day to see what God has in store for me instead of dreading it like I used to. Just release him to God, I said that out loud driving to work a couple of months ago, and he really helped me alot. Try IT. God loves you and will help you!SEF

Bramble Rose:<P>I have read your reply. I have printed it out and have read it several times already.<P>Your one statement that said: that I am even willing to<BR>allow him to harm you and harm our children...if it means<BR>that he will one day reconcile...yes, that is my dilemmna.<P>I am afraid that if I go full steam ahead and use all the facts I have about what he has done and the criminal background of his adulterous partner, he will never see me as someone who is safe to come home too.<P>Yet, you are right, if I don't use what I know to protect our childrens' well being morally, financially, physically, emotionally, then I would be doing them more harm. <P>He has a gambling background; alcoholic abuse and dwi, background, the affair (an addicition). <P>I have an attorney and we are working on obtaing sole legal and physical custody--which I actually have BUT it is not court approved.<P>This is costing me a fortune in legal fees, and I know it is costing him too. He has changed to a second attorney already. His truck notes are behind. He still drinks.<BR>The affair continues with a woman who has two DWI convictions in Texas. She was in jail in 11/99 and no one wanted her. Her cousin here brought her to our town and he met her in a bar where she should not have been around alcohol. <P>the accident they were in, two weeks after they met, she has used to bond him to her. She got the money and they were off and they haven't stoppped yet and She have been married 3x and divorce 3x. And my husband will probably become her 4th. Devastates me.<P>He called today and with all he has done, he said, Well, let me go, I have to go to Home Depot. Absolutely nothing was sais about anything significant... HE did ask if the kids were home and they were all gone. He just said tell them to call me. Yet, in the last 14 months, he has seen our 11 year old daughter for about 6 hours. OUr 14 year old daughter is so angry and hurt she won't see him.<BR> And our 16 year od son has gone down hill in one year from a smart boy (IQ130) on honor roll to c's and d's; has been in trouble with drinking, pot, and selling pills. This is waht I am dealing with and he is in a fog--he doesn't care about them and doesn't inquire with me or anyone how they are.<P>Yes, I am angry, I am hurt, I am mad, I am resentful, yes, I am furoius; <P>His alcoholic defense system has denied everything. I want to request he go for intervention; I am hoping that with the evidence we have, the judge will require it of him.<P>Thanks for caring. Please respond. I need to hear from you again. elo

Whatever "strategy" you choose to pursue, make sure it is one in which you can respect yourself. In my own situation, I try to choose a course of action which I believe will demonstrate my integrity, and my love and respect for my wife, in the hope that if she ever comes out of her fog she will see what she cannot see now.<P>Right now, there is absolutely <I>nothing</I> I can do that will garner a positive response from my wife. When she left me, she stated that if I wouldn't sign papers to terminate our marriage, the only alternative would be a "nasty divorce". Initially I refused to sign any such papers, but less than a week later I changed my mind and left her a note saying that I would not hold her against her will and that I was willing to work with her towards a dissolution. Guess what? She told me that that note convinced her that we could not talk "except through lawyers". Now, we are now going through a needlessly "nasty" divorce.<P>I think my wife needs to see me as a monster in order to justify her actions to herself. If she permits any negotiation or cooperation, her view of me might be compromised.<P>My point is that not only do you have no control over what your husband does, but <I>anything</I> you do may be used against you.<P>So just do what you need to do, and don't waste time worrying about whether another "strategy" might have been more effective.<BR>

Elo, this should NOT be a dilemma in your mind.<P>ARGH. Why on earth would you consider even for a moment, allowing him to harm your children?<P>Elo, there is nothing you can do to make him want to reconcile, ever.<P>You need to put the relationship books down - they do not apply to alcoholic marriages. Alcoholism changes EVERYTHING.<P>Please take a look at how your own fears are harming your children.<P><P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

Bramblerose,<P>Thanks for reply.<BR>I would NOT, EVEN FOR ONE MOMENT, allowing him to harm our children. <P>It is just that it is not easy to finally accept taht there is nothing I can to do MAKE HIM WANT TO RECONCILE. <P>I know and feel confident that I have enough on him to ask and receive court approved sole legal and physical custody.<P>I have enough on the op to show that her driving and criminal records are significant taht I will ask that my children not be in her company for even one second.<P>I resent taht I have to go to court and sit in a witness chair and asnwer questions as to why I believe, based on the facts and the past year events, in the best interest of our children, I should be granted sole legal/phy. custody.<P>Yes, I fear that if I testify to all this, he will NEVER<BR>consider reconciliation with me in the future before or after this divorce --that he wants and this person has pushed him into for her own selfish agenda.<P>I do dread having to do this. But, with people like you, my attorney and several close friends, I know that I must move forward...for the safety and health of my children.<P>I just hope and pray that these facts and documentation stant up in court. He does need to be held accountable and I can't imagine not making this happen. I can't imagine how he could defend accident reports, dwi citations, and all that reveal a driving and drinking record. Also, I have the Texas state criminal records of the woman who has two DWI convictions. My son has seen her driving my husband's truck. <P>Keep pumping and prompting me. I need it for June 15.<P>Thanks, elo