I agree with BrambleRose. It's the same situation I'm in. That when we got married, we already knew how many kids we were going to have and how we were going to raise them. Not to be a martyr or anything, but daycare was a dirty word. I worked til we had the kids then quit. My work before kids was not a career, but his career advanced quite a bit in the 9 years I raised the kids.<P>When he first wanted to leave, he was saying how he would take care of us in the same lifestyle, the only thing that would change would be him not being here. Well, the OW put the cabosh on that kind of talk.<P>I think he should be obligated until the kids are both 18 for SS. I only think this in the case of kids (or maybe someone who is way older too) - and also only if the agreement was that one party was to stay home with the kids. The courts don't care what your agreement was and I ended up with 4 years alimony or 3 years at a higher rate. I chose the 3. To me, it stinks. And not only have my children lost one parent, they are about to lose the other one too when I have to go out for a job. They will go from always having parents to rarely having one parent. I have no doubts about why we have a country with so many screwed up kids. To add insult, the courts tell ME! (the one with no career, no money, the children, the dumpee) that I cannot leave the state my X moved me to in order to go back where I'm from and have the support of my family to get back on my feet. Ok, thank God X doesn't care and won't stop me, but the court is still making me go to a hearing on it. No matter that the SOB has only bothered to see his sons 3 times in the past 7 months (and that was only for Xmas and when he needed something - his tax return signed, and his tax check when it arrived). Yet he has all the frickin freedom in the world to go wherever the heck he wants, and it's likely he will be transferred to another state anyway. But NO, the one with the children is a prisoner.<P>See, there are a lot of twisted things in the way divorce is handled - and I guess we will not all see it the same way, but I can respect your opinion.<P><P>------------------<BR>Kathy

Hi Kathy,<P>Oh, respect is a good word, and I respect your opinion too, very much, as I do BR's.<P>Maybe it's because I'm ovulating (oh, ignore me men, but it does do something to this perimenopausal mind of mine -- I just sent women back 100 years ) but I just got a bee in my bonnet this morning and had to write. <P>I am normally much kinder than this... what can I say... I so see your points too... <P>I live in a "if we all had a candle what a bright world it would be" mentality, and clearly it isn't the truth in the real world.<P>I wish the bad guys would get caught, the good guys would be rewarded... <P>...sigh...<P>Ignore me.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Let me ask you this though... and hang with me here, even though you may want to slap me smack in the nose...<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Now why would I want to do that? Silly.<P>Lol, you are asking a legitmate question - I'd only want to smack you if you started a thread called: <I>BR is NOT entitled to Spousal Support: Get a JOB Chick!</I><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Say you get divorced against your will (it happens all to often, as we know) and two years down the road you meet, are courted by, and marry a new man. Let's say he asks you to stay home and finish raising your children, (possibly have another baby, and that's just a side-note, doesn't really factor in) and caring for him. Would you do it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I am, sorta, being divorced against my will. MY WILL says that my H goes to AA and counseling and becomes the man of my dreams. Reality says I gotta file and take care of myself. Bleah.<P><BR>Remarriage - well that's a big can of worms, and honestly, probably a reason why I won't remarry, at least not until my kids are raised. I don't EVER want to be in this position again. I don't regret for a second the time I spent at home with my kids. It was the RIGHT thing to do. But now, I have my 3 children. They are in my opinion, my only priority. If I had to do everything all over again, I would have finished school, and learned to live on my own before getting married. I would have started a career, and kept current in it by working at least a couple days a week, or during mornings while the kids were in school. The reality is though that I didn't - <B>with my H's agreement</B>. <P>Now if some man wanted me to stay home....make more babies, depend on him....I think I would have to say no way...not without a pretty airtight prenuptial agreement that protected me.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I ask because... so many times, young moms (and older ones in first marriages) believed their spouses would support them until their kids got old enough, and *then* they could have their shot out there in the big world. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yep, that was what I thought. We would have our children while young, I'd support H in his career efforts and take care of our children. Then when the kids were older, I could pursue my own education and career.<P>I'm preaching to the choir I know...but affairs arent just about sex with someone else. His choices have completely betrayed my trust - I made LIFE decisons based on my trust that he would never abandon me. <P>I'm very very leery about ever trusting anyone like that ever again. I don't know if I ever will marry again as a result. I know that I don't have a desire to find someone else right now at all. The thought of dating makes my stomach just flip flop.<P>I feel like I have been given a second chance at life. I have lived my entire life with such fear, neglect, hurt and sadness. I don't think I will give up a chance for living well to be with someone else right now. Maybe after I have had a lot of time to develop and grow as a human being, and after I have established myself financially. But dependence is not something I'll ever do again.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>See, I've always felt this way about alimony/spousal support. I guess after the first affairs my then-H had, I considered divorce, but realized, like so many young moms, that I couldn't make it alone, and it wasn't fair of me to ask David (even though he was a cheating, lying, scumball) to give up 75% of his paycheck. He'd never make it! So, I stayed with him and tried to build a better marriage. We all know what happened after that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ok this statement boggles me. <P>It wasn't "fair" to ask David to stand up to his responsiblities? The way I see it is that my H makes a very good salary and has achieved a very nice position as a VP - which he could NOT have done had he been burdened with 50% of the childrearing/care and housework.<P>Because I took on all of those responsibilites - he was free spontaneously work long hours into the night, go on spur of the moment business trips - work weekends if necessary.....because he didn't have to rush home to pick up kids from daycare or a babysitter. He didnt have to worry about the kids being fed or gotten to medical appointments. Sick kids? No worries, he had a wife at home to take care of it. Grocery shopping, errands, banking, finances, taxes...everything was done by me.<P>He simply had to focus on his career. So as far as I am concerned, that paycheck represents effort on BOTH of our parts. Just because his name is the only name on the check does not mean that he bears the sole responsiblity for that achievement.<P>If he had achieved his position and salary as a single guy, then I wouldn't feel that it was "fair". <P>But he made a vow and an agreement. He made babies and we agreed how they would be raised - and he's reneged on that agreement. Why on EARTH would I consider it "unfair" that he stand up to his responsiblities financially?<P>The fact of the matter is that while the court tries to separate parenting from personal issues - with CS and spousal support being differientiated...they aren't really separate issues. My financial situation and ability to care for myself affects my parenting and my participation in their lives. It's a matter of the CHILDREN being put in daycare or being raised by a parent. It is a big time serious issue.<P>Now in the case of a marriage with no children - I do agree that a 50/50 split with no support on either side would be a pretty good idea. Gnome's case is definitely a situation that I think is very unfair.<P>But add kids to the mix, and stuff gets complicated.<P>bleah.<P><P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

Boy Bramble,<P>Tell us how you really feel...but I agree with you 100%. My W was home during our M and in spite of the fact that today she makes more with her salary (+ CS & Spousal Support) than I made alone during our marriage, I still think support is deserved for a period of time. As Bramble said she was home allowing for H to make the money without paying for child care. <P>MY W's spousal support is a fraction of the total support order. Unlike CS, it's a tax write off. But the money end of things...sour grapes. <P>From my perspective (M), I can always go out to make more money. Why get bogged down and bitter.<P>

Hi BR, <P>Thanks for answering my questions.<P>Obviously, if you read my later posting, I felt bad for even bringing the whole thing up...<P>Life is too short for this crap. Wouldn't it be nice if we all just kept our word and did what we said we would? <P>But let's face it, we're ALL here because AT LEAST one of us, in fact, did not keep our word, did not honor our vow. <P>...sigh...<P>It sucks.