No, havent read the codependancy thing. I have the meditation book though (by Beatty) from yrs ago. Havent looked at it lately.<P><BR>I WANT A RELEASE!! I NEED AFFECTION & SUPPORT from this stinking H of mine! No way can I even think about ever moving on finding some other man. Never! I will never ever trust another.<P>I dont want to offend anyone, but I overheard a comment by a woman who works here & was flustered one day. She said "I'm thinking of becoming a non-practising lesbian". That made me laugh! I was trying to grab on to faith, but I wasnt recognizing any signs or seeing any results quick enough & its hard to believe in something you cant tangibly see or feel or know is there! WAAHHH. VENT VENT.<p>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited June 23, 2001).]

CLG,<P>(((((((((((((((((big hugs)))))))))))))))))))<P>You know you can try and try and change and change but if you H wants to D you than there is nothing you can do. No fault divorce sucks big time. The one being left has no voice no say. Our only recourse is to turn the divorce into a long expensive court battle which in the end serves no real purpose unless a massive estate is involved and then there is some measure of revenge taken but it still serves nothing. <P>It hurts so much CLG I know. I've been there and am still there. STBX announced that he was D me and that was it. I asked for counseling, I asked for separation, I asked why he was leaving, I tried to be strong, I cried. My opinions and feelings were never once considered by him. He decided on his own that D was the only way. And for him it is. It is the only way that he can carry on the lifestyle he wants without the tremendous guilt. Dump the wife and kids and bring in the young babes.<P>I am left to gather up the pieces of my life and place them back together...alone. A tremendously scary thought and one that for me anyway has generated a measure of resentment towards STBX. (About a miles worth!!)<P>My life has changed. I had no control or say in the change. I hate that it has changed but I do try and find the positives there. And they are there you just have to look hard to see them.<P>I am not saying that there is no hope CLG but that you need to realize that if H wants a D you will be forced to accept it.<P>Our spouses are in the run away mode. Yes, our marriage was not all bliss and happiness but it certainly was not irrepable. It needed work and most of the work needed to be done by STBX and he could not accept that challenge. He chose to run to the easy fix of a new and exciting relationship. Good Luck!! He even told his Mom that he knew what he needed to do to stay in the marriage but he chose not to do that. That has been a extremely bitter pill to swallow.<P>I wish I could whisk us away to an island of peace and tranquility but I can't. All I can do is offer my support through this difficult time. I will need yours as well in the days ahead I'm sure.<P>Hang in there CLG.<P>Take Care.

Hi. Cant stay long. Work sucks. They moved me back to an old small desk in the middle of the hallway. Everyone else has offices. This on top of everything else. I cant take anymore. I just cant take it. WHY ME! I feel so bad. Appt. to meet new long term counselor tommorrow pm. Wish me luck. <P>My H is still living in our house. I truly think he doesnt know his own mind, right now. I wish he would not let others mess with his head. I wish he would think for himself. I dont understand how he can be so cruel to me out of the blue, all of a sudden last month & stick with that. Just last week he was crying & talking true feelings & I thought there was a chance to move to recovery! Now this! I wish this woman at work would go to hell at this point. If my H divorces me I will seek out her H & tell him what I think. I know I should be forgiving & not vengeful but right now I dont feel that way!! Gotta go now! Thanks for thinking of me.

clg,<P>Sounds like you're hanging on by your bare knuckles.<P>Actually, you sound a lot like I did before I got on the meds.<BR>Scattered thoughts, jumping from subject to subject, no one seems to know what they really want, obsessing, holding grudges, remembering every little mistake, etc.<P>The meds. can help with all of that. But I'll warn you....I couldn't really see what I was doing before I got on the meds. Afterwards, I got hit by a wave of guilt. That was almost worse than the frustration of trying to do everything I could think of to save the marriage.<P>Why guilt? I could finally see what I had been doing wrong. I could finally see my role in everything....but I still wasn't seeing his role. I too put the blame over on other people....his friends, the OW, etc. <P>But it really comes down to what has happened between the two of you. And both of you have contributed. Once you have an idea of what happened, you can start working on yourself. ----- that's when you finally get to actually start Plan A.<P>You can't fix him, but you can fix yourself. And sometimes if you fix yourself, it'll be enough to coax them into coming back. But if they decide to go, there's nothing we can do to stop them.<P>So, fix yourself. Figure out what you can do to meet your needs. You're already trying to get that other job. Physical needs? Workout at the gym and consider buying a vibrator. (I can't believe I just said that.)<P>I do know what it's like to walk down the grocery aisle and reach for the bag of cookies that he likes, only to put them back when I remember that he's no longer in the home. To not want to go to the movies alone, because he and I used to sit together and cuddle. The frustration of having to get a step-stool every time I turn around because he had put the light bulbs and batteries and other things that he usually took care of on the high shelves that I can't reach. Relearning tasks that I used to do, but he had taken over during our marriage (computer stuff, auto maintenance, bill paying, etc.).<P>But I've also found some freedom. I don't have to get his approval or opinion about which movies to rent. If I want to buy myself a treat at the grocery store, I can damn well buy myself a treat! If I don't want to eat meat or potatoes at dinner, I don't have to fix them (just so long as I know my daughter's meal is balanced). I don't have to get permission to buy plants, undergarments, something just for fun, a new outfit, etc. Less laundry...and not as dirty. No raised seat. I can use the computer. I can decorate the house how I want to.<P>Use the knowledge of what went wrong in this marriage and what went right to help you figure out what you want in your next marriage.<P>Remember, you didn't quit on this marriage. He did. But you will have to get to a point where you can accept that it is ending.<P>You have been trying to control your world - asking God to 'fix' things - trying to 'make' your H come back to you....and your world is spinning out of control. You're finding out that you really don't control anything....not your H, not your job, nothing. Your world is now controlling you. That's codependency.<P>Realizing that I had given control of my life over to another person, to a lot of people, has been my most recent revelation. And I broke down crying with that one too. <P>But since then, I think I'm slowly getting my life together. I have gotten the teaching job I was looking for. Things seem to be getting done around the house, although I'm still procrastinating on some things [excuse? dental surgery. I've been on Darvocet since last Wed. Haven't exactly felt like taking care of things].<P>But in general, I'm finding that I'm more at peace with myself. For the first time in a long long time, I'm actually starting to set some goals for myself. I'm getting to where the idea of divorce doesn't sound so bad. I know I'm a good person, I've learned a lot, and I have a lot still to learn. I think that I'm probably dealing with this better than my daughter's father --- I did send him and his father cards on father's day and a card to his mother on mother's day; but he is being spiteful and couldn't do the same for me. And he's having trouble following our temporary orders. He's been telling me that he's going to X, and when I disagree with him and have very legitimate reasons for disagreeing with him, he orders me to do what he wants. As per the temporary orders, when we can't come to an agreement, we're supposed to use the temporary orders to decide what to do. And he doesn't like that I'm setting boundaries that are enforcible. I've found my voice again.<P>I DO matter. I AM important. My opinions DO count for something. I deserve to be treated with respect. I CAN love, and I know that there is someone out there with the ability to love me too.<P>clg --- You will be able to let go at some point in the future. This isn't an easy journey, but I think it's rewarding. I hope you'll find it to be too.<P>~Amy

I told him dont lie to me or make a fool of me. He went off. That Im psyco & he'll get a restraining order etc.! I did nothing except speak.! Said he had thought of reconsiling, but not now after I acted like that! (like what?). Threw all his clothes in cases, bags but didnt have anywhere to go afterall. I think this other woman has more influence on him than I realize. I told him he is a sponge for bad advise & they only tell him what he wants to hear, not the truth. We are further apart now. My heart is shattered. I almost cant cope. <P>All you said about being in the store, the house. Thats the stage I am in. I cant not think of him. He is still in our house. Often I feel sorry for him, his vulnerability that he cant hide.<P>PS I will NEVER seek another relationship. I dont think I will ever want to marry again. I still want the one I'm in. If only H had more moments of clarity & would come to counseling with me. I told him you dont skip steps in this process. You dont go from married & laughing to divorced cold turkey. That there are steps to follow- like separation (proper), counseling etc. TIME!! <p>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited June 23, 2001).]

CLG,<P>Out of the Fog mentioned something that I wanted to write in my response as well.<P>Your H problems are just that, his problems! What he does and how he chooses to act is his choice. You want to make everyone else responsible for his behavior. You say over and over if only all this stress at work was gone all our problems would be solved, if only the woman at work would not talk to him he would come running back to me, if only he wouldn't hang out with the guy who cheated on his wife he would come back to me. <P>CLG do you really believe these things? I know that we try to cling on to every hope and try to blame all our H actions on outside influences because then it would be so much easier to fix. But that is not the way it works. Your H is responsible for his actions and for the way he treats you. <P>There is more I would like to say but I need to write it out. I can't seem to but my thought down in words right now. Haven't had my morning coffee!!<P>Later.

I know you are right. But we were plugging away not so bad before. Things were fixable. We shared things& had some joys. But all these external influences happened all at the same time, I swear. It was at this time, talk of separation/divorce started. I still think he thinks by leaving me I would be better off, instead of me helping him deal with his feelings. God forbid he lets me see his vulnerable side!<P>My system is on overload. All this started 6 wks ago & just last week we almost had a turning point where we couldve worked at recovery. But this whole week has been turmoil. I am not ready for any actions. I cannot face anymore pain at the moment. I believe he is taunting me on purpose now, but still a scared little boy inside.<P>Pray for me this weekend. I am just wiped out & feel so abandoned & alone! I cant flip the switch so easily.<p>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited June 23, 2001).]

OK --- I'm going to snippet and pull out your own words here:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cantletgo:<BR><B>instead of me helping him deal with his feelings. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You need to be helping yourself, not him. His feelings are his feelings. HE has to deal with them. You can't do anything with his feelings, they aren't your's.<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>he is taunting me<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>So. Don't let him push your buttons. So you see him and her walk out together. Maybe he does do it on purpose. You've got to protect yourself....don't let it get to you.<BR><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>I expect him to demand <BR>I am not going to do that. <BR>It is his choice, not mine. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What are you trying to achieve with this? Make him more angry?<BR>If you're going to divy up the account, you'll have to go together (I think....in order to remove your name from the joint account). <BR>And if you don't go, then you have made the choice. He can't open the account for you.<BR><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>He refuses to believe <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>And how do you expect to 'make' him believe?<BR><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>I want him to admit to me that he believes this of me, no matter what else he feels. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Even if he feels it isn't true? You'd rather have him lie to you? You say you want to work on the marriage, when all you are doing is starting fights with him over various little nit-picky things? When you are sitting there anticipating his next moves, what he'll do and what you'll do and say in return?<BR>It's a power struggle that's going on between you two. <BR><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>If he would talk instead of yelling & acknowledge my feelings it would make his life easier & I could try to be more accepting.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>In other words, he's got to give in to you first.<BR>You are going to give him hell, and kick, and scream, and fight all the way to the courthouse.<P>Sweety, in most states it doesn't matter. If he wants the divorce, he's going to get the divorce. You can't stop it.<P>Throwing a hissy-fit certainly isn't going to stop it. All you're doing is giving him one more reason to NOT come back.<P>None of these spy games and manipulations are going to do diddly-squat if you keep tossing them up in front of his face and waving them like flags. He'll just change course and find some other way to get to wherever he's going with this.<P>But I know you feel like you've got to 'tell' someone and vent your frustrations somewhere. Start some journals. In one, document all the suspicious activities. In the other, vent. And come over to these sites to simply vent and rant (label the subject as such).<P>You are spending loads of time and energy focused on him.<BR>You've got to change that focus to yourself.<P>Your job search.<BR>You set up your own account.<BR>You locate a good lawyer now so that you are ready when he does act, and your not trying to make a major decision when you are in an overly-emotional state.<BR>Gather your evidence against him.<P>I've got to go now, byebye<BR>~Amy<P>

Amy: You'll probably be glad to know Ibought the co-dependancy book. Alcohol is not a factor in our lives, but I sure do match alot of the check list. Actually I think He would too. <P>He did go nuts over the money thing today. I had to run out. Told him I wasnt ready for such drastic actions. And what about after tommorrow when he would not be making deposits in a joint account for us?. AM I just supposed to trust him that he'd pay his share of the bills & continue to help support me some?. He keeps saying he will have to by law. But theres been no papers done. I told him whats to keep him from running away tommorrow & me never hearing from him again. This is OUR home. Not mine or his. But one day hes pissed I wont sign it to him, & the next he says he wants me to have it & not sell it!! I told him I would hold it for a while, but if he doesnt come back, I cant keep it. AARRGH!! Im tired of fighting. But I am not the raving lunatic he makes me out to be. I say I need time for all this & when I wont agree with him on everything he gets pissed as hell. I know we cant control the external circumstances now, but I wish he'd stop blaming ME and see this. I am scared if I agree to split our account that he will run & break his promises to me.<P>For now, I want to figure out what I am going to do with myself when not at work! IT is VERY HARD for me. He has been my whole world. My whole existence. Though he refuses to believe it. Now he only sees the bad in our past & refuses to see the good we had. Catch ya later!

cantletgo, I'm getting in on this kind of late, but I wanted to let you know I really understand how you're feeling and I think I'm pretty close to where you're at right now. My H IS an alcoholic so I'm also in the codependent mode. I'm glad you're going to counselling. I just started going back to Al-Anon. I also feel like I still want my H despite how horribly he's treated me and how he blames me for everything. I know this isn't really love, it's dependency and maybe because of that I can identify a little with his dependencies on drugs, alcohol, and the OW. <P>My H is living with the OW and I have a temporary restraining order so I have no contact with him. Although it's painful, it's easier than what you're dealing with, with him still living with you.<P>It's so hard to shift the focus from them to us, but I know that's what we have to do to heal. I wish you luck. It helps to hear from other people who are farther along the road and coping better than we are...it gives me hope.