It's 1am here in the wild, wild west, and I just got off the phone with my H. I don't know what the heck just happened, and I'm too tired to think straight, and my fingers are too tired to type it all out. All I know is that I am hurting so bad my heart aches. <P>I hate this! It's not fair. I try and try to talk to him and communicate and have fun and be the wife he wants, but he won't tell me what he wants and somehow it's all my fault--and I DON'T GET IT!! I hate it when I don't get it, because I usually get it and then make a joke about it!<P>Why can't he see how he is killing me inside? WHY? It's got to be glaringly obvious!! Why does he keep on killing me when I've told him it hurts and please stop? Why oh why can't I have one night of gentle, loving, comforting, soothing caring? Have I offended God somehow or what? Is my life lesson really THIS BIG? What in the hell have I done that has made Him so mad at me? It must have been big!<P>I am sick and tired of practicing patience and being understanding and responding maturely and taking the high road. I mean, it's some small comfort I guess, but I DON'T WANT TO LEARN PATIENCE ANYMORE! Who prayed for me to learn patience? <P>Why? Why? Why? Why can't I have the soft, smooshy answer I so long for? Where is my gentle savior? <P>Okay, I'm pulling myself together and going to bed. I'm bringing my lotion tissues with me. Maybe my head will be clearer in the morning and I'll be able to type what happened--if I figure it out. <P><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Good Morning CJ,<P>Sorry to hear you're having a rough time. Your H isn't the only one who doesn't have the words a woman wants to hear. I've never had them either. I still don't have the foggiest notion what women really want.<P>When Cyrano was playing at the Walnut St. Theater, I took a lady friend to see it. It is one of the most beautiful love stories ever written, the script is wonderful, the loving lines reach out and tug at the heartstrings. Make a long story short, I sucked up every word of it, and she fell asleep. Go figure!<P>It must be very painful for you right now, but I really admire the way you are trying to hold your marriage together, even in the face of all that hurt. Keep hanging in there, one day, this too shall pass.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{CJ}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Prayers and stuff,<P>Bumper

(((((((((((((((((((((((((CJ)))))))))))))))))))))))))<P>Though I don't know what went on last night, I want you to know that I am here for you.<P>This is not your fault. You have done everything you can. Please don't blame yourself. His anger... his lack of communication... these are things that you can not change. These are things that only he can change. And in my opinion, I don't see this happening, but for your sake, I truly hope that I am wrong.<P>PLEASE take care of yourself. I want so much for you to be okay. And please remember that if you need me, you know where to find me.<P>~Java

I am sorry you are hurting, I know how it feels to want answers , to want to understand what is going on, I still hurt because of what WS has chose to do. The important thing for me is that I learned to stop hurting myself, I stopped calling and having contact with her, it was to painful for me and i needed a break. It is ok for you to take a break and take care of yourself. Go out and treat yourself to something nice you deserve it. As far as patients you are being very patient you have no other choice and no matter how things turn out you will be better off in the long run. take care of yourself.<P>

My turn......<BR>(((((((((((((CJ))))))))))))))<BR>Feels good to return the favor. Hang in there. We're all here for you as well.<BR>Jax

(((((((((((((((((<B>CJ</B>))))))))))))))))))<P>I'm sorry I'm not more helpful. My brain hurts, but I've been there with this kind of hurt and I just wanted to send you a hug.<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

(((((((((((CJ)))))))))))))<P>Love you, <P>Sheryl

((((((((((((((((CJ))))))))))))))<P>Oh, honey I hope that today finds you with a clearer head. <P>“”””Who prayed for me to learn patience?”””” <P>Funny thing, I did just the night before last and again last night. I’m reminded of a post that was in this forum a while ago, one of the quotes was<P>I asked God to grant me patience. God said, No. Patience is a by-product of tribulations; it isn’t granted, it is earned.<P>We are all here for you today and every day here after.<P>Hugs, Kisses, Prayers, and Thoughts<BR><P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

((((((((((((((((FaithfulWife)))))))))))))))<P>I don't post to you much but I follow your story. <P>You are to be admired for your strength and wisdom.<P>As you often say to those who are hurting and in pain, let it all out. <P>Take Care.<P>

I have to be honest...I didn't sleep hardly at all last night and I still can't really think exactly straight. <P>Here's what I do know. 1) He has decided to extend his business trip an extra day, which means he will not be attending our SECOND counseling session. He said, "Even if I was there, I wouldn't have participated anyway." 2) He thinks of my conditions as ultimatums and said, "I'll do it because I have to, but I don't like it and I'm mad about it." 3) He doesn't tell me what his ENs and LBs are--literally will not talk to me about it--yet I am held responsible if I don't meet them, and in his mind, it is my fault that he doesn't talk to me. Apparently I am such a b*tch that he can't tell me what's really on his heart, so he just tells me what he thinks I want to hear. 4) I am so negative that he does not want to carry on.<P>Okay. I'm at work on barely functioning mode, but even in my swirled up, confused state that doesn't sound right to me! But I also feel like I can not trust my own perceptions and senses. Am I nuts or what? Have I lost my mind and I missed it? <P>I'm sorry, but I want my heart back! <P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

((((((((((CJ)))))))))<P><BR>"Why oh why can't I have one night of gentle, loving, comforting, soothing caring?"<P>Seems clear to me what you need and want! Hang in there, I'm thinking of you!<P>Ragamuffin<BR>

CJ,<P>Boy, I wrote posts like this in 1999 and early 2000 all over the place... day in and day out... lived the life you're living... <P>I had posts called, "Stop the World, I Wanna Get Off" and "I Hate This" and a kazillion other titles -- as you can imagine, one must get creative when one posts over 4000 times.<P>Listen, he's not gonna change right now, that much is clear. So, the question becomes: Can you work on YOU right now while you're waiting? Well, can you?<P>There came a time when I couldn't. I hit the wall. Are you there yet? <P>You have every right to be upset, hurt, angry, frustrated, and to want to bonk him in the head -- and I'll even go so far as to say, you have every right to dump his a$$ if you want to... <P>What do you, in your heart of hearts, want?... and don't answer that question with a "If he...then I want..."<P>... you can't do that... it must be this, "Given the circumstances at this moment in time, what do I want?"

Thanks everyone for all your hugs and thoughts. God, I can't tell you how much I need them and how thankful I am. <BR> <P><BR>Nyneve,<P>I hear exactly what you are saying loud and clear. I have to also say that I suspected that what is happening now would be the result; however, I also felt like I shouldn't predict the future, and I should give him a chance to show me that he is willing to change if he wanted to. That's kind of what this was really all about: "I need/require these things--are you willing to meet these conditions or not? Are you willing to work with me on them and at least negotiate?"<P>I am totally clear on the concept that the only person I can change and work on and improve is ME. What I was trying to establish is "do I have a partner who is willingly wanting to work on himself and our marriage too, or not?" Armed with that knowledge, I can make a decision that is in my best interest. I can decide what is best for me and consider the entire family and marriage and just everything. The stuff you are saying I GET IT. See? I usually do "get it" and I'm able to translate it into actions I need to take to change or adjust me.<P>Here's the part I DON'T get. I have a counseling session tonight, and I will be greatly relieved to get some objective advice from a qualified professional. But I don't know where to start. There's so much going on that I don't know which way to face and where to start or even HOW to start down a path. Do you have any ideas or suggestions? Maybe a couple of things I could ask myself to point myself down the right track. I think I've fallen off the track altogether! Don't misunderstand, I'm not asking you'all to tell me what to do or where to go--that's up to me now. What I am asking is, with all these issues swirling around, I can not decifer which ones need to be examined and which ones are the core issues. God, it seems like there are a hundred possibilities, and I can't discuss a hundred things tonight! Which ones are the real issues, and which ones are "the small things". <P>This kind of guidance or pointing me in the right direction so I can decide--this I would appreciate. You and some of the other "oldies" here I know have some wisdom, and it's wierd but I trust you'all. <P>I love you and all of you guys so much, you can't imagine.<P><BR>Cj<P><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

((((((((((((CJ))))))))))))

{{{{{{CJ}}}}}}<P>I am sorry for your hurting CJ-I too am so confused and am just plain tired of it all. Having patience, or shall I say continuing to be patient is sooooo tough. I posted earlier, as I am fed up with the imbalanced emotions of my XH. You inspire me CJ, and I thank you for your wisdom.<P>Love you, <BR>Petrie

Honey, a counselor who's good will guide you... stop worrying your pretty head about that... <P>(((((CJ)))))<P>Let us know how it goes, okay???

One of my best, good buddies gave me a very wise observation: <P>"What to talk about with counselor? Hmmmm! Hey you already answered that. Talk about CJ. What it's going to take to make CJ happy. Not happy with her spouse, but happy with herself and life. Does her H fit into that picture?"<P>DUH!!<P>You're right, of course, but it's just that it's all so confusing and icky right now I literally can not think straight. Of course, a real professional will point me in the right direction and stuff. <P>Meanwhile, you'all will be very proud of me. I have been taking deep breaths at work and increasing coffee prices singlehandedly. I'm almost to the point of calming down and being able to think clearly, so I'm sure my counselor will help with that a lot. I can't wait!<P>Breathe.<P><BR>Thanks!<P>CJ<P><BR>P.S. Rejected, I can NOT BELIEVE that I have somehow inspired you. No, seriously. I am such a mess!! Surely there must be someone out there who can do this and make it work, but it doesn't seem to be me! YIKES!!<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife:<BR><B>Why can't he see how he is killing me inside? WHY? It's got to be glaringly obvious!! Why does he keep on killing me when I've told him it hurts and please stop?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>He may not know how <I>not</I> to keep hurting you. He may simply not have the skills. How can he do the right thing when all he knows how to do is wrong things?<P>I know it's a different situation, but there were many times in conversations with my wife that I hurt her over and over. I just couldn't seem to stop myself, because I <I>knew</I> that if she could only understand what I was <I>really</I> trying to say all her pain would go away, and I wanted desperately for that to happen. So I kept trying to find the magical <I>right</I> way to say it, and she kept misunderstanding, and I kept hurting her.<P>I never understood that my wife was not reacting to what I said, or how I said it, or what I felt. She was reacting to something inside herself.<P>When your husband talks to you, is he talking to <I>you</I>, or to something inside himself? When you hear him talk, are you hearing <I>him</I>, or something inside yourself?<P>This is why empathy is so important. I recently came across a definition for empathy that really put things into perspective for me: "A cognitive and emotional activity in which one person is able to experience the feelings and thoughts of another while simultaneously knowing his or her own thoughts and feelings."<P>Botheration! I'm not sure what I'm saying makes sense or has anything to do with your situation, CJ. Sorry...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Here's the part I DON'T get. I have a counseling session tonight, and I will be greatly relieved to get some objective advice from a qualified professional. But I don't know where to start. There's so much going on that I don't know which way to face and where to start or even HOW to start down a path. Do you have any ideas or suggestions? Maybe a couple of things I could ask myself to point myself down the right track. I think I've fallen off the track altogether! Don't misunderstand, I'm not asking you'all to tell me what to do or where to go--that's up to me now. What I am asking is, with all these issues swirling around, I can not decifer which ones need to be examined and which ones are the core issues. God, it seems like there are a hundred possibilities, and I can't discuss a hundred things tonight! Which ones are the real issues, and which ones are "the small things".</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Start with what is bothering you the most and let the counselor be your guide. Frankly, I don't think it's likely that your counselor will have much helpful to say in this initial session. You will probably just be laying groundwork.<BR>

(((((((((CJ))))))))))<P>Buddy, I'm not sure if I should hug you or slap you? ( ) It appears that you are still trying to salvage your marriage by yourself. You are a very strong lady and an inspiration to many out here, but you can't save your marriage alone.<P>I haven't posted much lately, although I have been following your story and I am appalled at the lack of respect your husband continues to show toward you and your marriage.<P>CJ, you deserve better. Whether your husband can become the man you need remains to be seen.<P>I'm a very visual person so I'd like to share an image with you.....imagine if you will, you are sitting in a canoe in the middle of the river and your goal is to get back to the shore. The problem is, you only have one oar. Now the question....how do you get back to shore? If you keep the oar in the water and only row on one side of the canoe, you will continue to move in circles no matter how hard you row. If you alternate rowing from side to side, your rowing will not be steady and your progress will be slow. You can move forward and you will eventually make it to shore, but you will be exhausted from all the work. If you stop rowing all together, the current will carry you downstream, further from your destination. The sad thing is that your husband is standing on the shore watching you struggle, all the while holding your other oar. If your husband isn't willing to give you that other oar, you're gonna have a hard time making it. <P>Can you imagine how nice it would be to have that second oar to get you back to shore? I know this little vision may be a bit simplistic, but you get the idea. <P>I wish the best for you my friend, but at this point, I don't see this getting any easier for you. Take some time for CJ and do something that really makes <B>YOU</B> happy. I know of some really nice trails through Rocky Mountain National Park which could always cheer me up and since you are a native, you probably know of some that are even better!!!!<P>The upcoming college football season is almost upon us and I'm gonna need my wagering buddy back to her happy self. At last count, I think I owe you a beer or two <P>CJ, you will continue to be in my thoughts and my prayers.<BR>

CJ-<P>I just wanted you to know that I am thinking about you and hoping for the best.<P>I hope the counselor has helped you tonight!<P>You will be in my prayers,<P>Jen