I knew this wouldn't be easy! By reading about how others (CJ!), are struggling, I know-but non the less, I am having a hard time.<P>My XH has been struggling with his emotions. We are really getting to the core of the "why" of it all. It has been a well over a month now that we have been communicating again. I am as opened minded as I can be, and he has started to really tell me everything. He has always respected my opinion and advise, so this situation is no different. One thing he needs to understand is that in this particular situation I am extremely close to it, and have been "affected" by it, therefore some of the things he shares hurt me.<P>I know, from what he has said, that the OW left him. As he put it "dropped him like a hot potato" (just like he did to me). I think I am way to trusting and open with myself with him. When he started talking to and seeing me again, I figured by his actions and what he was telling me, that he and her were totally through. Yes, they were through physically speaking but.........he, being dumped, was still left with unanswered questions and feelings therefore still emotionally attached (to that homewrecker!)<P>He has told me over and over again how wrong and bad the relationship was, OW not being the right person for him. So I just thought, hey he realizes all of this-so he must be through with her. When he'd bring up stuff about OW, regarding why she would do something or whatever, I'd ask him why does she still preoccupy so much of your thoughts? XH would say, well you know, I can't believe what I gave up for her and then she leaves me. <P>This morning XH calls me. He is trying to get right with God, with me, and just with life in general. He keeps telling me that he wants to do the right thing in regard to us, and if it is Gods will for us to get back together, let it be done. He asked me to make an appt. with a councelor at our church, and I said I would get right on it. YAY. Well, our conversation continued and he wanted to talk like friends and he had a few things to ask about OW. In talking, something made me come out and ask when he talked to her last. He said about 2wks. ago. <P>Immediately, I was very upset, as he has told me that there has been no contact with her. I paused and said that I had to go, and hung up. He called back immediately, I didn't pick up. He called again, I picked up and he went into why he called her. (he compared him calling her to me calling him after he left me) Excuse me, but I don't feel the two are similar in any way. I was married to him and spent my whole adult life with this man, I was in a severe depressed state, and was reeling with sadness and grief! He started to get hostile, I said I need to get to work and I will cool off, just give me some time.<P>I get to work and of course he calls. Our conversation got heated, with him swearing and crazy with anger. Basically, he told me that he is trying to do the right thing, he will go to counceling if I chose or he will stop calling me all together-just let him know what it is. We hung up, and I'm sitting in my office, thinking what is happening.<P>He called back to apologize for his outburst and unstable emotions. I am beginning to wonder if I have what it takes. I want passion and love not just to be the "right thing". I made the appt.with the councelor. <P>Why does this person (OW) still continue to occupy his mind so much, when he recognizes how bad she is for him. This is by far worse than his alcoholism!<P>Please advise and ask questions, I am in quite the quandry!<BR>Petrie<BR>

Petrie,<BR> Don't do this to yourself, or him. You've been here a while, comparing, and analyzing your situation. Lots of good hearts and minds here to help, plus you are the BS, remember? He has not been afforded so much, and yet he is is trying, and you know he is weak, and emotional. He is hurt, and WAY GUILTY, don't drive him so. You are not going to get it back so quickly, or completely at first. Give him a chance, just as I am sure you asked him for one once.<P>The A is over, but he's still attached. He felt so proud that he had her, and you, so full of his macho self (blech, to quote BrambleRose), now his sails have not so much wind because of PRIDE. He is not in love with her, just the idea that he can do what he did gave him some hubris. This will pass, I think.<P>Are you taking him back to kick him to the curb, or to try to establish a healthy relationship? You must forgive him, and her, and leave it be for a while so you can work on the new R, and leave the old ones in the past. You are thinking too much.<P>The alcoholism is still an issue, then? I'd not wait on that one, he needs help there.<P>Your tongue can hurt, or heal, the choice is yours. Why not PROVE to him what an exceptional woman you are by not 'going there' with him right now. He is a proud, and angry man, neither pride, nor anger serve us well. Humility, and lovingkindness are the only way to go for both of you. You have to set aside your bitterness if you want this to work. He did not come back to 'answer to you'. He will do that of his own accord, when he feels safe. He came back for whatever reason he came back, try to remember those times you'd have given anything for this, I'll bet that you didn't have the venom then, did you?<P>God has answered your prayer, but remember that you have work to do on your end of it, and it is not right to withhold your part as a ransom for his. His will be the result of yours. Don't get too entangled with what you take from it, I think you need to recharge that Giver, you'll thank yourself later in any case.<P>He needs to get a better relationship with God, and himself before he can be of any value to you, or to himself. It is not right for a man to be angry, hurtful words should not be spoken to your mate. I can tell him his end of it, if you want, or he can find out himself: <A HREF="http://www.restorem.org" TARGET=_blank>http://www.restorem.org</A> , and for about $90, it will ALL be laid bare for him. You can get some wisdom too, but yours is more complete, and more expensive, about $150. You can take counsel in God for less that $250, how cheap is that?<P>Take care, Petrie...don't let the Sharptooth get you.<p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited June 27, 2001).]

Petrie,<P>I’m going to be blunt and direct here. I don’t want to offend you and I don’t want to beat around the bush as I am sure that this thought has crossed your mind, but what is your ex’s true motivation for coming back to you? He has said that he “wants to do the right thing”, but what is that in his mind? If he is coming back just because you are a safety net for him and are keeping him from being alone, then I really don’t think that is a healthy way to start a new relationship.<P>Keep in mind that your marriage is over and that anything from this point forward is the beginning of a new relationship. If the OW is still consuming so much of his thoughts, then maybe the timing isn’t right for him to be back in your life? Think about this….Nobody likes to be dumped and nobody likes feeling that they were left behind for something better. We all know that being dumped hurts and makes us question many things about ourselves. If he is still questioning why she left him, even though he knows their relationship was bad, then there are obviously some unresolved issues there IMO. Also, his lying or not being forthcoming with information based on their latest contact is a big red flag for me.<P>My ex has never made an attempt to reconcile, but if she were to make that attempt, her motives would worry me. She was unhappy and she made the decision to leave to be on her own for the first time in her life. If she wanted to come back, a part of me couldn’t help but think that it was out of necessity and not out of love.<P>I think it’s important for all us to view a second chance with our ex’s as a beginning to a new relationship. My convictions on marriage and its value are very high, but after a divorce has become final, all past promises/vows are nullified. We are all allowed to walk away if the second chance doesn’t seem any better than the first.<P>Do what’s right for Petrie.<BR>

Most importantly, Petrie, you have to establish boundaries for yourself, and you must enforce them. You cannot allow XH to trample over them or rush you.<P>Next, if you want to work toward reconciliation, you need to figure out what conditions you will require for that, and you need to communicate these conditions to your XH. That doesn't mean you should make him grovel or anything like that; your conditions should be such that even he can admit that they are reasonable, not as punishment but simply as a healthy basis for building a relationship. (If your conditions are <I>not</I> reasonable, or if he can't admit that they are, then now is probably not the time to pursue a reconciliation.)<BR>

Rejected,<P>I read once on here that someones was told by their therapist that if the spouse wanted reconciliation that it should start with both parties going through individual counciling and making sure they are "recovered" from the D. Then rebuilding the relationship can begin with dating. <P>Both of you need to heal from the A and D. Rushing into reconciliation is like getting involved with someone too soon after D. <P>I think your exH still has some unresolved issues that he needs to deal with, without you. I see big red flags due to the fact that OW dumped him and then he came home licking his wounds. <P>Tread carefully Petrie, you want this reconciliation to work. I think it may take a lot of time.<P>I'm certainly no expert so please take my comments for what they are worth.<P>Take Care.<P>

Rejected, <P>I agree with what GnomeDePlume said and what HopelessinAZ was alluding to: it is possible to do this, but BOTH of you have to be healed and ready. The very big, important, operative word here is BOTH!!! Please, if you have ever heard anything I've ever said, hear this. Learn from my mistake. You must BOTH be ready to create a new relationship and pursue it full-steam--and that means that you BOTH have to have let go of the old relationship, BOTH learned from your mistakes, and BOTH healed yourself enough to do differently in the new relationship.<P>Here are where I think I made some serious mistakes. I had set some boundaries and conditions before this all started, and yet gradually, slowly I did not stand firm on the conditions--until suddenly I realized that the conditions had been ignored. I copy for "out-of-the-fog's" post to "Too Late for Me", but it was VERY, VERY similar to my intial condition list:<P>For me, it's simple. I made a list of things that he would have to do in order for me to return:<BR>- break all contact with the OW<BR>- break all contact with his 'friends' (who knew of the relationship and hid it for them)<BR>- get tested by the Dr. for STD<BR>- go to church, consider changing churches<BR>- individual counselling, including considering medication<BR>- marital counselling<BR>- attend Retrouville and Marriage Encounters<BR>- attend PAIRS classes (communication)<BR>- consider moving to another town<BR>- sleep in the other room until I'm comfortable with him returning to the bedroom<BR>- commit to spending X amount of time alone with me<BR>- find a recreational activity that we can do together<BR>- one night to myself, alone, my choice of night<BR>- rededication of our marriage vows<P>Pretty exhaustive list. If he wanted to work on the marriage, then there wasn't going to be no half-assing with it. I wanted to give our marriage the greatest possible chance of having reconciliation work and not only succeed, but grow to a whole new level of understanding and love. He either straightened up his act and committed to making it work, or it was over." (Thanks, out-of-the-fog. <P>After reading her post, and after our initial counseling meeting, at which I got beat up pretty badly, I came to realize that no one else was going to stand up for what was best for me except . . . ME! I had lived with the illusion that my spouse cared about what was best for me as much as I cared about what was best for him. Now, Rejected, don't get me wrong. Your spouse may actually care about what is best for you on some level, but NO ONE IS GOING TO STAND UP FOR WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU LIKE YOU!<P>So, learn from my mistakes. Give both you and your H enough time before you reconcile so you are BOTH ready to create a new relationship and pursue it with all your energies. Wait until you have BOTH let go of the old relationship, BOTH learned from your own mistakes, and BOTH healed yourself enough to do differently in the new relationship. Then, set your conditions for reconciliation and stand up for yourself. Don't let him get away with slowly chipping away at the conditions, gradually breaking agreements, and insidiously showing you disrespect. Every single day, do what is right and best for you, and every single day, you be the woman and wife that you have the potential to be. That way, you have the best chance of really making this work out. <P>Now...you can do it! <P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.