Well, I guess I should be happy or something but I'm not.<P>I've spent this afternoon talking with my H and we have agreed to cancel the divorce. I *know* I'm doing the wrong thing, but its the only *right* thing I can think of doing right now...does that make sense???<P>My H has agreed to do the following:<P>Cut all contact and write a no contact letter to his OW.<P>Go to confession and get himself straight with God.<P>Get a counselor - and he will address my concerns and problems with his drinking in the counseling. (He took the John's Hopkin's Test for alcoholism this afternoon and came up positive, barely).<P>He's agreed to the POJA and to filling out the Love Buster and EN questionaires that he refused to do for Steve Harley 6 months ago.<P>We have a 'date' to meet this Saturday to open a new joint bank account after closing his separate account, and switching his direct deposit over. I'm to be given full access to all money and financial information (most of which has already been given).<P>He's already handed over his cell phone access to me. Email will be given to me tomorrow.<P>He agreed that we would have a formal renewal of vows on our wedding anniversary this September.<P>And he plans to move home by the end of the month.<P>I'm tired and exhausted and I know that the end of this story is only going to end in my heartache and break. But this is what I have to do right now. <P>I *know* I'm choosing to go back into a relationship that won't ever be what I need. I am choosing this with full understanding of what I'm doing. I just hope you are all here when I need you, because don't know how else I'm going to keep my sanity intact.<P>--BR<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

I know where you're at...<P>...had my W made <B>any</B> overtures of recovery...<BR>...I would have done the same thing!<P> <P>Jim

BR,<P>My ex never made the kinds of *promises* that yours has, and I think it's a really positive sign that your H agreed to these things! I would have insisted on nearly everything you did (and *did* by the way). Never happened for me, but I'm totally jazzed it has happened for you!<P>If he really does what you've listed, you're on your way, baby!<P>I hope this is a GOOD, GOOD thing, dear woman!!!!!<p>[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited July 04, 2001).]

Well, you are an amazing person. Your journey has been so unbelievable if you could read all your threads from start until now, who would have *thunk* it? I wait in anticipation as you two rebuild...<P>Okay, we are here for you as you make this journey. I'm glad you're not having to face this alone. There are a whole host of people here who are praying for the same chance with their spouses! Please feel free to demonstrate the ups and downs of these next few months ...<P>You've thought it through in your head... now tell us more about how your heart is taking all of this!<P>Take care!<BR>Nicole<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

BR,<P>You are such a brave strong lady. You deserve the best!! Hope your H efforts are sincere. <P>Stay strong and stay focused!<P>

I have to disagree about one thing, BR. Just why can't this new relationship ever be what you need? Are you sure that that isn't you saying that you think it will go the same? Kick that red-horned b!tc# off your shoulder, listen to the other one.<P>I think I may have mentioned this to you before, but I will again, because I like it that much. At Restore Ministries, they have a Men's Restoration packet to help him with this process. It costs about $90, but you can just buy the two workbooks for less than $40. They really help in the process of getting right with God, and with your wife.<P>Okay, but, hey BR I am happy for you, too. Try to get a little more stoked about the POSSIBILITIES. That's got to be hard for you, I know, but I think it will help, don't you? (BTW, I'm not asking you to be naive, or whatever, but you know that you 'can't afford the luxury of a negative thought.'<P>Take care, and God bless!<BR>

BR,<P>OK, you've made your decision. If there is anyone on this board that I think is capable of making this work, it is you. Hope you will continue to stick close to your Al Anon group, and keep us posted. Good Luck,<P>Prayers and stuff,<P>Bumper

BR, I understand your reservations after all the broken promises and I will be praying for you. Just try to stay focused on "one day at a time" and sticking with your program because, you're right, it's not going to be easy. There will be heartache but, hopefully, it will not end in heartbreak as you fear. How are you going to respond if he doesn't follow through on his promises without jumping back into controlling mode? That's an issue I'd be thinking about if my H ever made the same promises to me. Are you spelling out what the consequences will be for him if he doesn't follow through?<P>I know I'd make the same decision you have and I'd be scared to death. I don't think I'd find any support except maybe here at MB. And I agree with w_f_h, don't say "never." You are a different person than you were with all the growth you've experienced and the same thing can happen for your H, with God's grace.<P>I'll be waiting to hear how things are going. I really admire you and know that if anyone can pull this off, you can!

OK girl,<P>Now you've got me crying.<P>I'm so happy for you. I know that nothing is over by any means, but at least he's said that he wants to try to do what's right. At least he's willing to try.<P>Sometimes I feel like I'm left with only wishing and praying.....<P>If he's willing to repent and mend his ways....if he follows through.....<P>Here I go, another hopeful romantic ---- hoping and praying that this will work for you two. <P>Take care of yourself,<BR>~Amy

We are here for you!<P>I think, like NSR said, that if my H had made any attempt to reconcile, I would feel exactly as you do. It's seems right now that it would be impossible, with all that's happened. And I see many ways that he and I aren't right for each other.<P>But I am still married to him and I would HAVE TO consider reconcilliation, as far down this road as I am.<P>I give you alot of credit and respect for honoring your marriage vows and keeping your heart at least a crack open. Keep close to God and ask Him for the desire to continue. He honors obedience.<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

Hey, BrambleRose, I just wanted to say that I can understand why you have to do this <I>and</I> why you can't look forward to it as anything but a grind right now.<P>But when we're where we need to be, God is there with us...<BR>

BrambleRose:<P>As Steve Harley used to counsel me (<I>Well, he might not have said this directly, but I'll paraphrase</I>):<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Plan A may be hard... Plan B is the toughest thing you've ever faced... but the <B>real work</B> begins when you start to reconcile...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>When you're dealing with an affair, you can get in the mindset of "against all odds", and improving yourself without expecting any real feedback or results in terms of your marriage. But by the time you get to recovery---you're exhausted from the effort. And hey---now there are REAL expectations---and you've got a REAL chance to make your marriage great.<P>It's scary. And it can really piss you off---you've done all this work, and NOW you've got to do more.<P>It's a completely normal part of the recovery process. If you're still counseling with Steve, he'll be able to get you through it. Good luck!!!

Hi everyone, thank you so much for your support.<P>I'm just sorta numb, and tired. I don't really think that this is going to work. I think that my H has only grudgingly decided to sort of address the alcohol issue. <P>The girlfriends are gone and he is willing to be accountable for his other behavior though, outside of the drinking.<P>My children desperately want him to come home.<P>I know that I can walk away from this marriage and NO ONE will say to me that I made a mistake or that I am doing something wrong. Everyone I know, including his OWN family, believes that I have done everything possible to save my marriage. I know that I would easily be granted an annullment by the Catholic Church. <P>I could walk away from all of this with a clear conscience, and probably find someone to spend my life with who really would love me and make me the most important thing in his life.<P>I've never had that. I think the worst part of being here at Marriage Builders is knowing that it could happen, should happen, and that I deserve it.<P>Even if my H is very very sincere and really does turn his life around, its going to be hell. He won't just be coming off of an affair, but also alcohol. And if he doesn't go off the alcohol....then one day, sooner or later, he will betray me again.<P>He was very clear that he is doing this because he needs our children and can't bear to be away from them. Again, its about him. And when our children grow up? I can look forward to be abandoned then.<P>All I know is that my children desperately want him, and when I read the Wallerstein book about the effect of divorce on children, and I think about what is facing me as a single mom, and how difficult the last year of our separation has been, I know that I have to try this one more time.<P>I don't for a second think that my H will ever be the companion, the partner, the lover, the friend that I have never had, and that I need. And that thought is just overwhelming to me right now.<P>At least for my kids, I will be able to look them in the eye and tell them that I did everything I could for them.<P>Anyway, I'm sitting on a pity pot right now, being melodramatic and morose. I'm just depressed that I was so close to freedom, and now back at the bottom of the hill.<P>Sisyphus, can I borrow your name for a bit? <P>Thanks everyone, I am so glad you are all here.<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

<B>He won't just be coming off of an affair, but also alcohol. And if he doesn't go off the alcohol....then one day, sooner or later, he will betray me again.</B><P><B>I don't for a second think that my H will ever be the companion, the partner, the lover, the friend that I have never had, and that I need. And that thought is just overwhelming to me right now.</B><P>Boy, can I relate to what you're saying!<P>My H is also an alcoholic who has been dry the whole time I knew him, and just started drinking again (after 15 years dry) two years ago. He told me the other day "I wouldn't have left you if it wasn't for the alcohol." And I asked him "So why didn't you over the past year [while he was addressing the drinking issue] ever want to reconcile?" He said..."Well, I guess I just found myself in this situation (with OW) and don't know how to or if I want to change it." <P>Really made me feel like crap.<P>And since all this started and brought out his "true colors" so to speak, I see that he isn't someone I now want to grow old with. I just can't trust him fidelity-wise NOR alcohol-wise. <P>But I'm still married to him and still believe in my marriage vow...whatever that means at this point. What a drag!<P>Hang in there and keep the faith!<BR>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Mrs.O (edited July 05, 2001).]

Bramble Rose---my heat goes out to you cause you are in a very difficult spot. I understand your hestitation. You are right bout your kids. My parents were hopelessly destroying each other with alcoholism but I still feel if there was a divorce, it would have effected me worse. Even though the atmosphere is tense and fearful, there is still a sense of family when parents stay together. I get sick when I hear someone who has very little to deal with in a marriage say that they are divorcing cause we just grew apart or one of them burped too loud. I could never leave my H cause of his alcoholism because I always felt that it was an illness and the vows say "in sickness and in health". Maybe that is just codependency though. <P>Not sure if there is this perfect someone out there that will love us the way we need. Marriage is so hard today cause there is so much that keeps it from working right. But when I think back, marriage was always so hard but thank God for the tools that the Harley's give. They seem to have helped so many.<P>It is great though that there is so much love between your kids and their Dad. I asked my 26 yr old son the other day if his dad's drinking effected him and he said that he thinks my reaction to his Dad's drinking effected him more. But I read that is normal in alcoholic homes. <P>You have Alanon tools now and lots of support so keep the agreements on the "table" and work on them one at a time. You can keep your perspective now cause you know how to work on the alcohol issues. That dang alcohol crap just makes me so mad. <P>God bless you and all your efforts,<BR>TW

BR, Was there never a time in your marriage where he was the kind of lover, friend, companion you wanted? If not, why did you marry him? What was it about him that drew you to him? You sound so miserable about the prospect of reconciling with him. I know I'd be scared to death at this point if my H came to me and wanted to reconcile. But saving our marriages is why we're all here at MB. Do you really have no hope because you're right, if you're only reconciling for the kids sake it probably won't work, though it's a noble attempt to make life easier for your kids. Everyone's so happy for you and you sound so sad.<P>Mrs. O, My H started drinking again 1.5 years ago after almost 10 years of sobriety. I lived with him for 8 years prior to that when he was drinking and using drugs. I believe my H wouldn't have left except for the drugs and alcohol (though he's never said this) because the OW is a really unlikely choice except that she is much more accepting of his substance abuse and uses drugs right along with him. I also still believe in the marriage vow, though my H has emphatically stated that it means nothing to him. I am filing for divorce to protect myself from him financially since we own a business together.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LetSTry:<BR><B>Mrs. O, My H started drinking again 1.5 years ago after almost 10 years of sobriety. I lived with him for 8 years prior to that when he was drinking and using drugs. I believe my H wouldn't have left except for the drugs and alcohol (though he's never said this) because the OW is a really unlikely choice except that she is much more accepting of his substance abuse and uses drugs right along with him. I also still believe in the marriage vow, though my H has emphatically stated that it means nothing to him. I am filing for divorce to protect myself from him financially since we own a business together.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Same with my H...the OW he is with is also a drinker, etc. and God-only-knows what else they may be into. And my H, who was/is a Christian, now isn't sure that you can really take the Bible as "law".....he thinks if God wanted him to get out of that relationship, then God would tell him....<P>O brother!<BR>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

Mrs. O, If your H is drunk, and/or high, he's probably not really listening to God... Scott Peck (The Road Less Travelled, et al) believes that alcoholics are searching for God, he says that's why liquor is referred to as "spirits." My H found God through AA, but I doubt that his relationship with God is high on his list of priorities right now.<P>I've read your posts before but never realized that your H was an alcoholic. If anything, it only makes this whole affair situation seem that much more hopeless. There's really not much we can do as long as they're still drinking. And if they have the OW (and others) to enable them, it will only continue longer...<P>I'll be thinking of you.

Thank for the thoughts.<P>Yes, you're right....and I know that he's not really hearing God. It's just that HE doesn't seem to realize this...or care. But deep down inside, I know that he knows what he is doing is wrong. <P>And as you other post said, when alcohol is involved, it just really screws stuff up big time. And the stuff it messes up does such far-reaching damage.<P>I really feel for you in having to see this person who you one time cherished and loved, turn into a pathetic figure of his former self. Even without contact, it's amazing how "connected" we still are in some weird way. I'll keep you in my prayers...it's tough to see someone hurting themselves so horribly.<P>Take care.<BR>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

Mrs. O, Thank you for your kind words. Yes, it has been very difficult to watch his descent. And it has been hard to be blamed for it as well. I just have to turn him over to God and be grateful that I have as little contact as I do so that I'm not constantly being faced with how to react to his situation. I so much want to get in there and try and save him. That's when I call someone in Al-Anon or come here...<P>I also think my H knows deep down what he's doing.