I have not posted about my situation in some time, but lurk everyday and offer input on other's threads when I think I have something to say. For some reason, everytime I post to another's thread it seems to be a "thread killer" - for the last 8-10 times I have added a reply it has been the death knell of the thread - no reponses after mine. Maybe I am just paranoid, but I still need to get my current status out here and am desperately seeking input of all kinds - so please reply.<p>Ok, after that long-winded intro, you can sort of guess that the actual post will not be brief. But, I will try to provide the Reader's Digest condensed version as much as possible. <p>My xh and I divorced on 01/14/02. We had been married 15 years and have 3 kids (ages 12, 9 and 5). There was no seperation. He filed in late October, we worked out an agreement and I stayed in the house until one week post divorce (timing on finding an apt. and scheduling move). Prior to the D, there were no affairs on either side. We had some trust and communication issues throughout our entire marriage and I sank into a deep depression beginning in summer 1999. I have always been a high achiever (mostly, I now realize to cover-up what has always been pretty low self-esteem). I couldn't let anyone see how broken and worthless I actually felt, so I just did more, acheived more, made more $, took care of everyone else (to the complete disregard of my own feelings) and thought if I can be Superwoman/SuperMom/SuperWife then all will be well. Truly, I think I subconsciously felt it was my responsibilty to solve every problem and make everyone else happy. After 21 months of intense IC, I now understand many of the root causes for this mindset and have implemented tremendous changes in my behavior and my thinkging. But, anyway. In Aug. 2000 I was working as a Senior VP at a large bank and making well over 6 figures, lived in a lovely home, driving a new Volvo, active in church and the Junior League (you get the picture) and hiding more and more of the 'real' me everyday. To deal with the continued feelings out-of-control feelings, I was drinking wine everyday just to numb the pain. I didn't want to feel or deal with reality. In my desperate attempt to finally get someones attention (without actually opening up and saying "Help, I can't do all this alone", I used a very elementary scheme to embezzle thousands of dollars from the bank. I submitted false invoices and then approved them and deposited the money into my own account.
Now, in addition to graduating from college in three and half years (with honors) and moving steadily up the career ladder for 15 years in the corporate world, I am a very intelligent person. I mean degrees and careers don't always necessarily mean the person is really smart! But, in my case, I have been tested to have a very high IQ. Point being, had my intention been to devise a scheme to steal a bunch of money and get away with it - I could have come up with 4,000 different methods than what I employed. As my atty. so eloquently says, "A second grader could follow this paper trail."
At the time the stealing was going on, I didn't know how all this would end. I just knew that something would happen. Somebody would figure it out and then IT would have to be dealt with. I sometimes thought it would never matter, because I would be dead soon anyway (not real concrete thoughts of suicide, but a car wreck or a stress related heart attack...). Well, the lid did blow off and I was fired from the bank (duh!). I then faced a federal prosecution, pled guilty to one count of bank fraud and was sentenced last June. In federal court, there are sentencing guidelines that restrict judges from handing out random sentences. They have to follow a grid based on the offense and prior convictions (in my case, there were none of those). My grid said 18-24 months in prison. For a few select reasons the judge can "depart" from the guidelines and sentence below the recommendation. My judge granted our motion to depart based on "aberrant behavior" and "diminished capacity". My psychiatrist tesitified that my depression (that I had been masking and self-medicating for years) caused me to resort to this criminal behavior as an escape and that it was really viewed by me (at the time) as my only way out - that or suicide. He said it was a "massive cry for help". The strange part about this testimony is the truth of it. And the Judge knew it. He did depart and did not sentence me to prison, but to probation to include 6 months in a halfway house (I can leave during the day to work and go back and spend the night there...)
Anyway, obviously this whole thing pointed up a lot of problems in our relationship and caused tremendous stress in our house. My husband acted like a rock at first, "we will get through this..."
What I think happened is that he began to experience a true Mid Life crisis in the midst of all this and questioning everything. I knew I had a lot of work to do to rebuild (or create new) trust in me and who I really am. As well as individual work to deal with the depression and root causes and learn new coping mechanisms.
After the sentence, the US government decided to appeal because they didn't think it was "fair" and wanted to send a message that they are tough on crime. So, my case went before the 11th circuit and they heard argument about whether or not the trial court abused its discretion. They have just ruled (today, as a matter of fact) that they think he did abuse his discretion on aberrant behavior and they have asked him to provide more details on his reasoning for the diminished capacity part of the departure. It means I have to back in front of the original judge and be resentenced. More waiting. More limbo.
Back to the marriage. In Aug. 2001 he first mentioned divorce. I said, I wanted us to try counseling and see if we couldn't work it out. I told him I loved him and would do anything to keep our family together. I have apologized over and over for the criminal actions and the impact that has had and will continue to have. We tried a couple of sessions of MC. His heart wasn't in it and he had made up his mind.
I signed the agreement because with my precarious legal situation of my own I had no leg to stand on to fight on any issue.
Ten days after the D was granted we were at my apt. having lunch and discussing children issues and the next thing is we are in bed having incredibly passionate SF. ???
Over the next few weeks and months he continues to say that his hope is that we can reconcile and put our family back together, but we both have more individual work to do before he sees that as a possibility. He has had a couple of casual dates with other women, but there is no serious OW.
I am basically in Plan A. But, trying to lovingly detach. I can't stand the limbo. My heart is sick over everything. <p>I know this is so long and rambly. Any input at all?

Hi again Wiffle, you and I have talked at length before, haven't we?<p>The part of your story that ALWAYS touches me is a part of my story, as well. <p>It's that feeling that you "weren't yourself" and had two choices - do something drastic - or die. And also, how others view that as a copout or a lie. <p>Just know that you are being heard today, and that you aren't a thread killer [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>Consider yourself hugged!<p>((((((((((Wiffle))))))))))

Hang in there, and don't give up all hope yet.<p>I know it feels like limbo, but even when you think that nothing is happening, God is doing somehting.<p>Take you life one day at a time, try not to over analyze things. <p>It doesn't sound like your marriage is over, it's just the both of you trying to get through some difficult times. <p>Plan A'ing sounds like a great idea and it's so great how you've been able to work through so many things in your own life. <p>Remember that your life isn't over, and that you still have a tremendous amount to live for. Don't give up now. <p>K

Thanks ya'll. Yes, New_B, I do remember many exchanges with you and I appreciate your taking a moment to respond. <p>It sometimes just seems overwhelming, to keep moving forward. And I know my xh and I still have love for one another, but I feel like he "ran out" when the going got tough. I feel so deserted. And I do try and see his point of view, which I think is what is keeping me in Plan A.
For example, last night, my middle son had a baseball game that neither of us knew about (make-up from a rain out and we didn't get the message), so when I did learn of it we raced home to get the uniform and raced back to the ballpark. He made it in time for the start of the game, but missed BP and was upset. I am trying to comfort him and get him to shake it off so it doesn't ruin his whole night. Simultaneously I am trying to get xh on the cell phone to let him know we are having a game. I left a message on the cell and at his office. No return phone call. Finally, about 8:05 I call the cell again and he answers - the game was only in the 2nd inning. I tell him what is going on and I ASSUME (I know - never do that) that he is on his way to the park. HE DOESN'T SHOW!
Apparently whatever he had plans to do was more important. I was furious and hurt and sad for my son... all those feelings you can imagine.
Well, I didn't let son know anything was wrong - just told him Dad must not have known and been at a business meeting and I was sure he would be sorry he missed it and would want a play-by-play this morning.
Sure enough, xh called this am and did get all the info and apologized to son. I never said a word. Not a "where were you?" "what the h*ll were you doing?" "who the h*ll were you with!!?"
Just acted perfectly lovely and upbeat - MY GOSH THAT IS HARD TO DO SOMETIMES!
He has since called me at work about 5 times to tell me how bad he feels about missing last night. How am I doing? Is there anything he can do? I am not pursuing and he is. <p>I think I am learning. Slowly, but surely.

Wiffle,<p>I am so sorry your going through all of this..<p>It sounds like your exh is trying to step back
and wait to see what happens with your case..will
you go to jail or not?? He's not wanting to be totally there just in case..and not wanting to leave just in case..<p>Have you asked him how he feels about all of it?
I know you've said how you feel and what you've
thought..but have you asked him how he feels or thinks about it all??<p>I can't imagine the struggle you are both having right now..should we really put forth and effort to make this marriage work if she's going to be
spending the next 2 years or more in jail????<p>How horrible..I really hurt for you...

Wiffle,
Wow, What a story. I believe you as far as "the cry for help". I am sorry they appealed. Obviously they are not over achieving moms.
I was the one that always had to be perfect. It can wear on you. In fact it can drive you completely over the edge. Been there done that.
What happened to me I made myself ill, had fever and everything. It forced me into bed for 3 months without a diagnosis. Baffled all the health professionals (funny cause I am one).<p>I needed a break and I was at the end of my rope. Thank God my body took over. I could have done something more drastic. So I can relate.<p>Your post also comes at a very sad time. My daughter called me from school a couple of hours ago. One of the "nerds"/ major overacheiver commited suicide last night (shot himself in the head). She is so upset, he was a friend. She told me the kids always made fun of him, but he was one of the nicest kids. No one really understands the self pressure that overachievers place on themselves. She cannot understand how he could do what he did, in her mind he had it all. "Now Stanford has another opening for the fall", she overheard one of the other students say. She goes to a very competitive school she is so happy she is getting out (she graduates this month)it is way too sad.<p>Enough of that, now on to your relationship with your XH. I think you should continue to plan A. You need to get through this latest hurdle dealing with the courts. Hopefully it will be over soon. I thought you could not be tried for the samething twice. Is that not double jepardy?
I hope the judge sticks to his ruling.<p>I have a question for you. As a person who is also an overachiever, and the one person that everyone always looks too for answers and strength. I know when I went down hill no one and I mean NO ONE could relate to me. It made them uncomfortable that I needed help and support from anyone. Most people I am close to RAN. My XH did not know how to relate to me. I always fixed everything and I could not fix this. He suddenly had more business trips. It was like he was forcing me to get better so I could once again take care of everything, am I making sense??<p>Do you think your husband just could not handle being in the role of "strength provider" and so he bolted? just a thought.
Women like us do not allow others to take care of anything, people around us get used to it. Some just cannot handle it. My sister could not even talk to me. But when she became ill, I took care of EVERYTHING (and she does have a husband).<p>Plan A and take care of you and your kids. Try to limit it to just that. You still have a battle ahead of you. You will be in my thoughts and prayers.
Take care

Wiffle,<p>I think you have received some good ideas. I liked TR's one about his being uncertain about the situation with the courts.<p>I would like to take that thought a bit further. You mentioned that a lot of your troubles came from your personal issues. You wanted to appear strong, smart, successful and more than that you want to be all of those things.<p>My question to you is what did your H want to be. If I recall correctly he is a lawyer, did he want to appear strong, smart, successful and indeed be those things? I don't know a thing about your life style but permit me some assumptions just for discussion sake. Hopefully, it might get things in better focus.<p>Let's say that you two were fairly prominent in the community. Let's say that your image and that of your H plus the image of you as a couple was important to both of you.<p>Now one of you crashes and burns, as you have. The other person is left with sort of a quandry. Part of the quandry is that he never realized he attached as much significance to what other people think of him, as he does. You have realized your issues with this only after alot of counseling.<p>So he is single again, loves his W or at least the person he was married to, has an exW who isn't the person he thought he was married to, this W may be gone from his life for a year or two, and when she comes back he doesn't know who she will be. To make matters worse, he has strong feelings for this new woman his exW, and he is trying to maintain his image.<p>Have I managed to make this hypothetical story complex enough? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I guess my point and one that may merit discussion is that he has no clue which way to go. Does he move on based on the uncertainty? Does he stay based on feelings for a woman he isn't so certain will stay as she is now? Is there someone better out there, that would make this situation easier to just ignore?<p>I think he is afraid of the future Wiffle. I suspect he doesn't know himself as well as you know yourself at this point. My guess is that you need to continue to be you, enteract with him, and see how your life unfolds. I have no doubts there is love there, but the uncertain future and his issues may be hiding it.<p>Perhaps at sometime you need to talk to him about how he REALLY feels.<p>How is that for a starting point of a discussion? You really didn't ask a question so I thought you wanted to talk.<p>Hang in there.<p>JL

Wiffle,<p>I am too upset to be able to read your post right now, sorry, but I know about limboand I am very sorry to hear of your situation.<p>Please know that I will keep you in my prayers.<p>God Bless you,
vb_guy

Gosh ya'll, I feel so validated and so "heard" by everyone's replies and I cannot tell you how much I appreciate it.
I think each of you makes a point worth considering and some I have spent many hours agonizing over.
TR-
I do think he is in kind of a "wait and see" mode. Not so much because of the practical matter of me going away (which, worst case scenario will be about 10 months in Marianna, Florida minimum security camp), but because he has recognized how much I have changed and has made continuous comments about how much he loves the changes in me and he is afraid if I go away I will come back NOT wanting him back. Now, I don't know whether I believe this or not, but it is what he says.
We have talked at length about all the confusing feelings we both have. I do think our situation is one where time can help to heal and bring reconcilliation rather than heal our hearts from one another.<p>So Crushed,
The most important thing I have learned is that no one is an island and nobody can do it all. It isn't possible. My family and friends have all been there in such incredible ways - mainly because they are so glad to see that I am finally being honest and ASKING for help. That is what has been so hard for me - to ask.
I can really relate to your daughter's story. The prosecuting atty in my case pulled me aside after the sentencing hearing and told me a story of a long distance runner from UNC who was (he said) just like me - perfect grades, athlete, worked outside of school and sports, thin, beautiful... everyone's ideal. During a marathon she was running across a bridge over a dry river bed and just ran right off the side. Killed herself. Nobody could ever understand why. I understood perfectly. He told me in the hallway outside that courtroom that he thought of that girl when he heard my story and when I testified at my hearing. He said, "I am so glad you just stole some money and didn't take your life". He also said, "if there was ever a case that merited a downward departure for diminished capacity this is it"
So, it was clear that at least the US Atty in my case "got it". But, then for political reasons - they appeal. Isn't that wonderful.<p>JL,
I also think you are right about "image" being more important to my xh than he realized (or admitted). That is so funny that you said that because that is exactly what my psych. says! He thinks J would have a hard time 'coming back' because of how it would look. But, what is so funny about that is that he always said what he wanted was an intimate, open, honest REAL relationship with all the ugly inner true stuff right out there. Guess he didnt' plan it being quite so ugly, or quite so out there.
I do think he is seeing now that I can be that person he always wanted me to be and while he may be a little afraid of the permanance of these changes, he wants to believe. That is why I am remaining in Plan A and if nothing else, I will survive this as a stronger and healthier person. Not just someone who "looks" like they can take on the world - but someone who really can (with help from others and God, especially).<p>Last night at the ballpark XH kept asking how I was. Telling me how great I looked. I told him it isn't about the outside. He said, "I know". He also told me yesterday that he was in awe of how well I was handling all this. He said, "You are so much stronger than I am". We all went for pizza after older son's game and he told me that I make his heart happy. <p>Baby steps, baby steps.

Wiffle,
Your situation sounds so devastating.........the part about reconciliation is similiar to mine......I find it hard to handle knowing my ex wife is sleeping with someone else (though she says it is not serious). I think it makes reconciliation nearly impossible..........I try to tell myself that she has a different method .....but I am starting to doubt we will ever survive......and just prolonging the inevitable. <p>My prayers are with you Wiffle......just know you are not trully alone.....