<small>[ August 05, 2004, 11:12 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]</small>

I was tickled to see this thread still going this morning as I have a couple of updates.<p>Good Guy asked how DM fits with these developments and that is a good question. He had called me Monday p.m. and left a message on my answering machine saying he had a good time this weekend and would like to see me again. Well, I hadn't returned the call yet, and yesterday I get an e-mail from him saying he wanted to take me to dinner. I felt like I needed to talk to him about the confusing issues and the 180 Xh was displaying. We talked on the phone and he said, "Something's up - I can tell, what is going on?" So, I told him about xh's reaction on Sunday and the conversations we have had over the past few days and that while this was what I had wanted for so long, that it seemed to much, too fast to place any real belief in and I was skittish. He was really great. He said, "I understand your hesitation to trust this, it is very sudden, but you have to do what is right for you and if you have the chance to put your family back together that is awesome." He went on to tell me that he had not expected to 'like' me as much as he did and wasn't this a typical turn of events for his love life. That he had had about 15 dates (with different women) since his last serious relationship and didn't feel anything that made him want to go out a 2nd time. And then he goes out with me and has a fabulous time and of course, now that isn't going to work out either!
As I said, he and xh are acquaintances and we are all in the same circle of friends, so he knows and likes xh and really wants what is best for us. But, it did feel good to hear all that. He said, "I understand why he wants you back." How ironic.<p>Well, last night, xh and I had a real date. He picked me up and we went to dinner and I can see he has now turned a corner. He wants to love me. He kept saying, "please just let me love you - really love you." He has made an appointment to start individual counseling and is continuing talks with our priest. I know this man and I now feel that he has never been more serious. <p>I have felt all along that this can work. He now feels it. I am not scared. I can trust. We have a lot of work to do, but we are both willing to do it. We talked last night about God's work over the weekend and how the way all these events converged is something that could not have been planned or staged. There is nothing contrived about how we feel. Something Just Learning said about how him going away with the snail (OW) is dead on. XH even said last night that he felt that relationship moving into a new level (well, duh? go away for the weekend??) and he was very uncomfortable with it. It wasn't right to him. Just like you said, JL, he found her attractive and fun and whatever, but he knew in his heart he didn't love her and wasn't going to. And so when it did begin to look more serious he felt like he was in the wrong place. This coupled with my choices over the weekend hit him like a ton of bricks. <p>He said last night, "I was almost really stupid. I cannot believe how close I came to letting you get away from me." And people, WE ARE DIVORCED. IT DOES HAPPEN. God can redeem anything. Absolutely anything.<p>I'll keep you updated.

Wiffle,<p>That is WONDERFUL NEWS!!!! Praise God

Be afraid... be VERY afraid. I'd like to take you out of the tea and crumpets conversation with all of the sympatheitc ladies here and speak from a caveman's perspective... from the perspective of someone who has walked the same exact road your ex is walking right now.. inch for inch, mile for mile.<p>He aint ready.<p>Someone once told me "the old web [or snail, in this case] needs to come down before the new web is weaved." It's true. My wife did the same thing you did (hooked up with friend) and I did the same thing your husband did.. begged to come back (after *I* had left and said it was over). Within one month I was itching to see ow again.<p>Maybe we didn;t work as hard as we could have.. but as soon as we got back in our routine, I was bored again.<p>So I guess the message is, STAY renewed. Don't get back into the routine if you guys hook up again. When you say "rebuild" you REALLY need to rebuild or you will be in the SAME *EXACT* spot again before you know it<p>Best of luck<p>Another caveman

Ok. So what is wrong with me? I have thought for months that I wanted nothing more than for my xh to 'come to his senses' and realize what a wonderful relationship we could have if only we would both would do the work and here he is saying (begging) for that - and I am feeling a little ambivilant.
WHAT UP WITH THAT???<p>Here's what I think is up.
1. I finally (after months of sobbing, feeling like crap and throwing up) turned a corner and KNEW in my gut that not only could I survive without him, I could thrive.<p>2. He makes this decision that he can't live without me moments after learning I have turned said corner and gone out with someone else - suspiciously knee-jerk.<p>3. D (the guy I went out with) is really nice and we have continued e-mail and phone contact and I LIKE HIM. So, what? I am divorced and have been for over 4 months!<p>So, what is this? What in the world do I do with this???

[Wiffle:<p>Ok. So what is wrong with me? I have thought for months that I wanted nothing more than for my xh to 'come to his senses' and realize what a wonderful relationship we could have if only we would both would do the work and here he is saying (begging) for that - and I am feeling a little ambivilant.
WHAT UP WITH THAT???"<p>Nothing is wrong with you. You've regained your self-respect, and gone through hell to do it. Now you have perspective and detatchment. That is wonderful. Look at this situation as if you were a girlfriend of Wiffle's. <p>Ask Wiffle what the guy (your XH's) track record is. Was he mean, neglectful, disrectful to his exW? Was he dishonest? Unappreciative? Lazy?<p>Hmmm. If I met the most desirable man on the planet, and I knew that he had treated his last wife the way my H has treated me for the last several years, the gloss would dull somewhat. I'd pull back and have a "show me" attitude. I might even want to meet his X and get into some real in-depth girltalk.<p>Your self-respect and self-confidence, hard won, shifts your focus on the situation. Where months ago you could have been cheaply won, easily groveled at his feet "thank you for reconsidering and giving me another chance!" you have healed and gotten stronger. <p>For his own good, he needs to work and to pay for you. You are priceless. You're not his any more. He threw you away. He undervalued you. Thought you were a piece of broken glass, but you aren't. You're a diamond. <p>You aren't for just any shlub who walks in with time on his hands. Maybe he isn't worthy of you. He's got to start all over again, back at GO. Wiffle, maybe you've outgrown him.<p>I'm just saying "maybe." Take it slow. If he really wants you and his marriage back, you can't be a cheap prize. And I'm not talking about bucks here, to be clear. He'll have to work hard to win you.

Thank you Belle,
You are absolutely right. I just feel this pressure to make a quick decision and I don't have to do that. I can take the time I need to evaluate the situation.
Thanks for your post. It was really helpful.
Wiffle

Wiffle,<p>Well, I do think you are healing, but I also think if you play around too much you will indeed lose the chance with your exH. You see he is going to figure out he can live without you as well. It is absolutely true neither of you NEED each other. But, what you are not factoring in is the cost to him for what you did. I doubt you realize how much it confused him and now he thinks he has himself sorted out. <p>You can take your time, but if you start another relationship then I suspect you will lose him. As always we have choices, but remember this you stated that you didn't show him much love when you were married, so his Love Bank isn't very full either.<p>Personally, I think what you are dealing with is what most here deal with when after a long struggle their marriages are going to make it. Usually the BS then sits back and asks "is this what I want?" "Do I really want this person that has hurt me so much?" <p>I suspect it comes from putting so much effort into something and finally achieving it. Think about it.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Wiffle, I made my H wait 2 solid months of him doing his best to "win" me back. Then I told him he could give his notice at his apt and move back home in a month (it was actually 3 wks). He spent this whole time doing things for me, showing me he loved me, etc, etc (counselling was in there too!)<p>I figured if I made him wait it would really cement his love for me bigtime and we wouldn't have to go thru this crap again.<p>Take your time. My H threw me away too, and was frantic when he realized what he had really done...he was sure he had lost me. Good thing I still loved him madly! (but I didn't show him that at first)<p>Carol

Wiffle,<p>I applaude JL for writing my exact thoughts as I read this last night.<p>Your husband was very hurt by your past actions. <p>You are getting all this attention from two guys and having a fun time, but I think if you play around you are going to lose the one that tried so hard to stick by you even when you did illegal things and hurt your family so much.<p>I hope you make the right decision.<p>BTW, is the court matter resolved?<p>ANNA

Thanks JL, Carol and Anna,
I appreciate the candor of all your comments and I think JL and Anna have very good points which I have certainly considered. Yes, I know how much my decisions hurt my xh and my family and I have suffered the pain of what I did for almost 2 years.
I have 'worked through' a lot of the underlying reasons for my actions and now have a much better understanding of depression and mental illness. No, there is no excuse for what I did. And no one on this earth is responsible for it except me. However, I didn't become the person I was at age 35 in a vacuum and my 15 year marriage to xh was toxic for me at times. In terms of my being able to trust him and open up with him. While he 'says' that is what he always wanted, he didn't live that or make me feel safe for most of our marriage. <p>Again, I could have made many different choices to deal with my depression and self-esteem issues. I would give anything if I could go back and actually ASK for help in a more conventional way. The person I am today would make much different decisions given the same circumstances.<p>I do not have any intention of 'playing around' with my xh or with anyone else. I just want to be very clear about my feelings and I am trying to sort them out. I do think there is this thinking that I should be 'grateful' he is willing to take me back after what I did. And maybe I should be. On paper it sure looks that way. But, life isn't lived on paper. And there is always so much more to the story than what makes the news. <p>We have both hurt each other. We have both made mistakes. He told me the other night that he thinks all this had to play out this way for a reason - that maybe we just wouldn't get it any other way. He told me he knows in his heart that he does love me from the inside out and if I will just LET him love me he will prove to me how much love there is. Sounds very hard to pass up.<p>I want so much to believe and so much to have what we know we can. It is just scary. I think my 'protective' walls are what is going on with the D thing. I have to let them down in order to have a chance to make this work. I know that. Knowing and doing are two different animals.<p>Thanks again for your thoughts. I really do appreciate it when people take the time to respond.

Wiffle,<p>Right now, things are where you wanted them a year ago, you wanted your husband there for you..you wanted the marriage..you wanted the marriage..<p>But, your NOT that same person you were a year ago..and you've changed drastically..like we've all said, your stronger and more mature..but you
really haven't said, in what areas your ex has changed other than he keeps asking you to 'let him love you' <p>Now my question..what are you doing to prevent him from loving you?? Doesn't a person just love someone?? I mean everyone says love is a choice..
so if it's a choice to love you..how can you stop him from loving you?? You can't..you don't have the power to make him love you or not..<p>You can however allow him to 'show' you he loves you..by his actions..is he willing to 'show' you he loves you?? Now, how is he 'showing' you he loves you more now than he did before?? What is he doing now in your relationship that he didn't do before to show you this love he says he has??<p>As the old song says.."SHOW ME" or as the state motto of Missouri, 'SHOW ME' what is he doing and what are you doing to show your love for each other? Words are just words with out the actions to back them up..<p>and if he keeps 'saying let me love you' maybe you should ask him..what am I doing to prevent you from loving me?? or what am I doing to prevent you from 'showing me' you love me??

Wiffle,<p>I think you misunderstood what I was driving at; probably because I didn't write it very well. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You don't have to be greatful to go back to him. You don't have to go back to him. You don't have to love him. The marriage is over.<p>What I was driving at is that YOU need to decide what YOU want. Do you want to be married to him? If you don't or are not sure, then go slow.<p>My warning was really this. You realize you let many people down, and you have addressed many of your issues in counseling. Your H has issues from before and because of what you did. He is uncertain of many things,but likes what he sees in you now. My guess is that part of what led to the divorce was shame. He felt shamed by what you did. He has been dealing with this. When he saw someone in his circle of friends willing to date you, that probably helped him with this issue.<p>If they are willing to date you, then the shame he felt for a member of his family (his W) doing this is somewhat releaved. I am not saying what he felt is right or wrong, but often it takes someone else to validate that you(your H actually) was not a complete fool for being married to you.<p>Do you see where I am going? Now he is willing to show you, that he loves you, but I keep coming back to your statement that you didn't and perhaps never really allowed yourself to open up to show him you loved him.<p>Why do I keep coming back? Because IF you decide that you do love him, he probably really needs to see it. If you sort of cool it for awhile, he may get the idea that you were just playing with him and you will have confirmed your past behavior with regard to your marriage.<p>You are walking a fine line Wiffle. It is hard to tell where your H really is, so you are sort of getting onesided advice. But, my guess is that you need to realize that his LB is not very full. He doesn't want to lose you, and he loves you, but it won't take much to send a message that says "go away". I suspect he will if he gets that message. After all you two are divorced now.<p>So do take your time, but also keep your eye on the ball. It is very easy to get caught up in past resentments. It is easy to persuade oneself that they have been wronged. The reality is that you had issues: depression and such, and you didn't see the world very clearly, but that also means you never really saw your H very clearly either.<p>I doubt he was the perfect H. I have no doubts that he could become a better H if he decides to, but you need to realize that what you saw in the past was also filtered by your issues and your actions and inactions help shape your H's responses to you.<p>So go slow, but also look for the positive things. I am sure your H has done some serious reflection on his role in the marriage. I am also sure he didn't have a clue on how to address your depression and your drinking. <p>In many ways you are a much more attractive woman to ALL men. You are mentally healthy, your drinking issues are addressed, and you are seeing the world with hope and optimizum (sp). Reflect on all of this and see where YOU want to go. If it is to restore your marriage, then GO FOR IT. Do it with enthusiasm and not with fear.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Thanks again JL,
I agree with everything you said. And you are right, now is where the rubber meets the road and I have to know what it is I want.
We are going away for the weekend (with the kids) and I am really looking forward to it. I'll update on Monday or Tues.<p>TR,
You are right also - that would be a great question to ask him and I think I will. Just how am I 'not' letting you love me??