How many good marriage counsellors are there out there that believe in the conecpts of Dr. Harley? Both my wife and I have been seeing(separately) a counsellor for about three years. His philosphy is that we shouldn't do things for each other that don't make us happy to do. That is we should think of ourself first and that will make us happy then we will be a better wife/husband to be with and therfore our marriage will be better. Basically the "me first" attitude - and all I think that does is make things worse. I know my wife left again this past January for 7 months - she is back now, but we are struggling. I believe in Dr.Harley's concepts, but I want to find a way to discuss this with a counsellor that also believes in the same ideas. I am from Ontario, Canada - about 3 hours west of Toronto. Is there a way that I can find a suitable counsellor that agrees with Dr. Harley's approach, without going through every counsellor and asking them?? Any help would be very much appreciated. richard59

Dear Richard<BR>Keep checking, I will write more later. You can find my story about bad therapist under divorcebusting.com message board "when therapy hurts"<BR>I surely would like to find a real marriage counselor but for now, I have given up and am using the best of Harley, Davis, McManus, Gottman and others who care about marriage and know that the narcissism of the usual psychologist really kills lots of marriages--as in "You poor thing, you are not pleased in your marriage. Why don't you just end it?" There is way more of this going on that anyone will admit. Any confidence I ever had in the profession has been profoundly shaken.<BR>For a man, I would go to group marriage presentations ONLY for awhile. It will not be personally threatening to either of you. The presenter will joke about the vicissitudes of BOTH men's AND women's behaviors and expectations in marriage. SO ALL BATTLES ARE PUBLIC, and hearing and knowing about the problems of others bleeds out a good deal of the hot gases of your own dilemma.<BR>My friend, you may be stuck. Three years is a very long time. Consider stopping right away. Let her know that you have had great insights, but don't get specific.<BR>Just do the anti LoveBuster stuff and expect damn little for a long time. If she said anything bad about you in therapy or vented her dismay about how things were going in the marriage, you can bet your last dollar that the counselor did not say, "I'm sure you feel this way now, but his intentions were good, he has made great progress and it is time to forgive each other of the way you both hurt each other and build on past commitments instead of dwelling on the recent hurts."<BR>It took me three years, too, but seven months of "therapy" was all I could take. Three months after I stopped going, I got her commitment to move back. Six months after I stopped therapy, I helped her move back.<BR>All the names above have written about the fraud which is modern day marriage counseling. If you find someone good that will help you both, together, more power to you. I gave up. Too much effort was made ot ogrefy me, and the pain stopped suddenly when I stopped hitting my head against the brick wall.<BR>BTW, my W is Canadian. Enjoyed Algonquin Park.<BR>Keep reading, it will bear fruit more quickly.<BR>Good Luck<BR>R

Thanks for your reply Roger. So much of what you say makes a lot of sense to me - atleast I know that some one else has dealt with the same kind of thing and can give me some good advice. I have an appointment with this counsellor in 2 weeks time - but I don't plan to go. I have had enough of him, I think he has more personal problems that I do, and if he is so good, why isn't his life the way he wants it to be? The only thing he has done for me, is give me this idea that I should be and do what I want to do, and to hell with everyone else, and I am sure that he is telling my wife the same thing. He has given me very few answers about how to be happy with her - only more questions. I will have to see where I go from here.<P>Richard<BR>

Richard:<P>If you believe that your previous counselor was a joke (and he was), and you like Harley's concepts, then I would highly suggest that you try the MarriageBuilder's phone counseling with Dr. Harley's kids---Steve or Jennifer. I did phone counseling with Steve for about a year while my wife was having an affair, and he made a huge difference in my ability to deal with the affair in a productive manner that ended up saving the marriage. My wife is currently counseling with Jennifer to work through some issues as well. Both Steve and Jennifer are highly trained counselors (Steve has a masters, Jennifer has a Ph.D.). They'll help you work through the Marriagebuilder program, and they'll have you on the right track pretty quickly. The approach is more a short-term program, so if you're both working on it together, I'd expect that you'd only spend a few months in "weekly" sessions (at the most). <P>If you call 888-639-1639, you can make arrangements for the counseling, or at least arrange to talk with Steve or Jennifer to "check them out". I've done both phone and office counseling, and I find the phone counseling to be much more effective (and cost-effective) than the office counseling.<P>The link for counseling is <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>here.</A>