Haven't post for a long time however I read almost daily. My story (pmiller)in a nutshell: Wife (now my X as of 9-18-02) and I didn't communicate well. Words were spoken which ultimatly lead to where we are now (divorced). I still have a tremendous amount of love for her and she knows this. We have been getting along really well since actually before divorce was final. Still in plan A since early July with only a few slip ups where I tried to "educate" her on MB concepts. Have not done this since and I beleive she has recognized my changes. We talk daily, mainly about the kids schedule, (I have called only a few other times just to say Hi, otherwise I do not all)etc... and occasionally she will call to talk under the guise of the kids, then we get off into how she is doing with her new job, etc. She called me last Friday to remind me of a church play our kids are in Sat night. She called again on Sat to again discuss the play and that I needed to have the kids @ the church by 5:15PM. I told her I would have them there in time (it was my weekend w/kids) Our talk again got off the subject of the kids and I asked her if she though we would ever try to find our way back to each other. She said it was too soon for this. Later in the conversation, she then asked if I would stop by her house a little early as she wanted to get my opinion on a gift she got for her neice and suggested we all ride to the church together. I was encouraged and am thinking to myself; baby steps, baby steps. When I arrive she was in the middle of baking xmas goodies. She offers me a glass of wine and I plop myself on the counter in the kitchen to talk with her, just like old times. We had a very nice talk, nothing about OR or anything like that. Then, as we are getting ready to load up in the truck, she invites me to stay for dinner following the play. I declined at first as I didn't want to appear too anxious, but then accepted. Sat next to each other at the play and sung songs between sceens. Everything seemed comfortable. When we got back to her house I fired up the grill while she prepared the side disches. We all then sat down and had dinner together for the first time since last spring. Following dinner, she asked for help in stringing garland and lights around the door outside. It was fun and felt so good to just be with her doing something that we used to do together. After we were finished I said "well it's 9PM, I gotta go get ready for tomorrow. Thanks for dinner, I had a nice time" she said she had a nice time as well. Question: is this a sign that perhaps she is missing "us" or is the idea of spending our first xmas apart beginning to sink in? How should I proceed without appearing too anxious? She knows I have been seeing another lady but also knows where my heart is (w/her) She has been on a few dinner dates since the divorce and has recently been in email contact w/someone from her past. I have told her that I am not emotionally ready for a serious relationship yet to which she adimantly said I should tell my friend this and spend time w/ myself. I don't think she would string me along by getting my hopes up (i.e., riding together, dinner, etc...) by doing these things but I am cautious not to try to read too much into these invitations to spend a little time together but damn I am hopeful she will soon let her guard down more. We will exchange gifts xmas eve as well. What is my next move??

pmiller-

It sounds like you're doing fine so keep on with what's brought you to this point. I'm sure you know that friendship and trust need to be established before anything further can develop so keep taking the tiny steps. I read somewhere that S Harvey recommends trying R for 2 years after D so don't feel like you're wasting your time. However it turns out, it will help you get the closure you need in the long run. Good luck and keep us updated as I'm in a similar situation (D 12/11/02, XW and I get along well, "something" still there)

Litchfield, Thanks for responding so quickly. I do have a gut feeling that "something" is still there and do not want to push. Me pushing for resolution early on in our seperation (April '02)is what got us to where we are today. I just couldn't seem to give her the space she needed and gave an ultimatum, either agree to let me back home or let me get on with life. Well, she choose the latter because she was hurt and not ready, etc... Need an opinion though; should I be seeing a ladyfriend? I have told her (LF)that I still have feelings for the x and that she would have to understand this and be patient w/me. LF wanting a committed relationship (although doesn't want a marriage just yet but has indicated this is what she would like to have someday w/me)and feels she is "down the ladder" in my priorities. I have explained to lf that my kids are #1 and career#2 now. I know what you are saying about being friends and building trust again w/x. I am trying to take advantage of any opportunity to show the x that we can re-establish these things but am a bit confused as to whether or not I should continue to see lf. There are guarentees x and I will re-connect and lf has the qualities I would want if I choose to be in a committed R again. I do not want to hurt lf, that is why I have been radically honest w/her regarding my feelings for x.

Litchfield, Thanks for responding so quickly. I do have a gut feeling that "something" is still there and do not want to push. Me pushing for resolution early on in our seperation (April '02)is what got us to where we are today. I just couldn't seem to give her the space she needed and gave an ultimatum, either agree to let me back home or let me get on with life. Well, she choose the latter because she was hurt and not ready, etc... Need an opinion though; should I be seeing a ladyfriend? I have told her (LF)that I still have feelings for the x and that she would have to understand this and be patient w/me. LF wanting a committed relationship (although doesn't want a marriage just yet but has indicated this is what she would like to have someday w/me)and feels she is "down the ladder" in my priorities. I have explained to lf that my kids are #1 and career#2 now. I know what you are saying about being friends and building trust again w/x. I am trying to take advantage of any opportunity to show the x that we can re-establish these things but am a bit confused as to whether or not I should continue to see lf. There are guarentees x and I will re-connect and lf has the qualities I would want if I choose to be in a committed R again. I do not want to hurt lf, that is why I have been radically honest w/her regarding my feelings for x.

I left out "no" before the guarantees comment of x and I re-connecting. Do you think I am reducing any chances w/the x by seeing lf?

I left out "no" before the guarantees comment of x and I re-connecting. Do you think I am reducing any chances w/the x by seeing lf?

pmiller-

IMO, you're asking for trouble if you get into anything close to a serious relationship at this point. It's risky because of the possiblity of you covering up or avoiding feelings associated with your D that WILL come out SOONER or LATER. It's good that you've been honest with your LF but it sounds like the best way for you to heal and move on in the long run will be to take things slow and see what happens with your XW (exclusively). Of all the stories I've seen on relationships directly after D, most end up with the divorcee prolonging his/her recovery and the other person hurt from the breakup. I've just accepted that I couldn't contribute much to a R at this point so I'm not going to bother with one until I feel like I'm "whole" again.

good advice, but the x and I really don't have much of a relationship as she has not allowed herself to "feel" for me and will not allow me to meet her most important EN, QT (declines invites to come over for dinner, etc). She has anger issues she needs to deal with and quite frankly has not taken any steps to address them. This concerns me the most but I realize she has to make an effort to resolve her issues as I can't make her do anything. I have expressed the issue of "throw away" R with LF and have told her that I do not want this to happen - that she is not "throw away" but I guess I must realize that I am just not ready for a R. I do not feel whole w/out my x and LF has filled the void somewhat but it's just not the same and not fair to LF. She will be hurt already if I were to break things off but probable better now than b4 she gets too emotionally connected to me. She (LF) has expressed a desire to meet all my EN (I have listed them for her) She asked me last night if I was emotionally and physically attracted to her and I must say that yes, I am. I've got to live my life as though x is not comming back and part of this might/would include allowing LF into my heart, even if the majority of it is w/the x. Sometimes I think that maybe I'm simply still in love with the "neuclear family" idea and am holding onto something that's not going to happen. Patients is hard for me...

pmiller-

Wow, it's eery how similar our situations sound. I too have lots of left over feelings for my X who, like yours, remains friendly but has not really put forth any effort to address issues on her end. I've also seen someone a few times that would like very much to jump in the deep end. She knows, however, that I'm not ready for any sort of serious R.

The idea that my X is not looking into problems on her end is something I think about daily. As you mentioned, we can't "make" the WS do anything. Though she's a wonderful person in alot of ways, I'm fairly certain that she's decided to basically blame me for the D rather than take a hard look at herself. She comes from a fairly dysfunctional family (who doesn't right?) and with our D there have now been 8 D's between her parents and 1 older sister. My father tried to warn me many moons ago, but I probably wouldn't change things if I could.

Litchfield, again thanks for responding to my babble. My x also comes from a dysfunctional family in that there was alot a verbal and some physical abuse which she had to endure/witness. Alcohol was almost always involved with her parents. They are good folks, but man do they argue and bicker (they have been married 50+yrs). X also feels as though she was blammed for everything growing up as a kid. If something was broken or missing, her older brother blammed her, etc...She brought some of this baggage w/her to our marriage. Trust is also something the x struggles with. During a discussion last spring, I told her that she needs to open up to me and share her feelings w/me as I am her husband (well, I was @ the time)to which she made the clairfying (to me)statement "I have a hard time trusting anyone" I said why is that, I'm your husband you can share anything w/me. She said "you know what I grew up with" An excuse I know. She is an adult. She must let go of past trauma and she has not made the effort to deal w/her childhood problems. How in the world, particulary now that we are divorced, can I help her to understand this w/out appearing manipulative or controlling? She is a proud one...

pmiller-

If you don't mind me asking, does her father have what you would consider to be a drinking problem? Did she a solid relationship with him growing up?

The reason I ask is that my X's father is a alchoholic that was never there for for them emotionally. She has a very distant relationship with him to this day, mostly because of his lifestyle (She's always taken care of herself with diet, exercise, etc.) Her father was also E/sometimes P abusive to her mom and she and her sisters witnessed alot of it. Guess how her parents split up? Her mother had a A.....

I don't know that I'd call it a drinking problem. He's in 81 (45 when x was born)and enjoys a cocktail every night after dinner. His wife is the one w/the problem (she's 74)

Litchfield, had to run b4 finishing my repsonse. Both of her parents drink. When they do, her mom badgers her dad, almost nightly. Heck their way of communicating is through shouts, etc...X now feels close to her dad but this was not the case for her growing up. Her dad was always traveling and rarly spent q time w/her. Her mom would get ugly after a few drinks and x told me her mom would follow her dad around the house, poking fingers in dads chest,etc...to the point her dad would snap and knock her mom around. I feel sorry for her having to see this as a young kid. X thinks her dad should have divorced mom years ago! They stuck it out though, which is more than she can say(and we were never physically abusive to each other)

pmiller-

That sounds like a tough environment to grow up in, although certainly not that uncommon. However, as you mentioned before a less than perfect childhood is no excuse for poor decisions as adults.

And yes, the million dollar question is how do you help someone to want to help themselves? Unfortunately, that's not possible and the potential to get "burned" by being too suggestive or pushy is high. I think you should continue to take things day by day and work on rebuilding that trust and affection. Try not to look at the big picture (possible R, her getting help, etc.), just concentrate on the little things and live in the moment. Good luck!

litchfield, I agree w/you. I will continue to be the best friend she will allow me to be. In the meantime, I must move forward and if that means spending time w/LF, well then...at tleast LF wants to spend time w/me and after feeling like crap all year it's nice to know someone else is interested. I will take it slowly w/LF and leave the door open, light on or whatever for the X. Thanks for you input, its truly appreciated.