WOMANOFFAITH5

Thank you for understanding.
I think I will run off some of my past hurts by you real quick.
Where do I start?
I'll give you a little background about me and my kids.
For starters they are young 10-6, when my oldest was born I quit my low paying job to stay home with her, I did that for nearly 2 years, so it was just us two most of the day, I then went to work part-time weekends so I could stay home with her during the week, second daughter followed a few years later. Did the same thing with her till summer of 2002, then went to work full-time.
But during all this time I took my kids to school,picked them up, took them to swimming lessons, piano, soccer, basketball, and most of all dance lessons. I had taken my oldest to dance for 7 years, set thru almost every lesson.
So 4 months after I was given the r/o and thrown out, my wife did not want me to attend their dance recital "it would make her feel uncomfortable, she would be afraid I would stare at her", now my kids practice all year for this.
So guess what, I didn't get to go.
She took her boyfriend to it, I couldn't believe it. (neither could other parents).
I think that was the most mean thing she did.
Also that summer I only got to go to 2 of my daughters softball games, because the days the games fell on were not mine.
The first time on saw this other man (2nd time, 1st time was even more shocking), was at my oldest daughters school assembly.
I went to the award assembly, knowing her mom would be there, but there beside her I got my first real good look at him.
I was thinking, why is he here?
It is not his kid there, he hadn't helped in school, what is he taking pride in?
I'll tell you later about the 1st time I saw him,
let me just tell you this much, it was on Valentine's Day, 2 weeks after I got labeled as an abuser.
So back to more recent, my daughters soccer practice, I was there on the field, when her/him show up, at first they are sitting by themselves, but next thing I noticed, they moved by some of the other parents and he's chatting with them like he has been there for years.
Side note....He does not have kids of his own....
So my ex does not have to deal with the other side of this (you know, if he had kids too)
So tomorrow is another game, it is my weekend with my kids, so lets see if he is there, probably will be, I would like to tell him how I feel, how what he helped did to my family, maybe blow some of her story she had been telling him.
(See I am 99% sure, my wife was telling him we were already split up when she was seeing him, a a lot of evidence points to this, did I mention they are co-workers, and that he too was married at the time too).

Womanoffaith5 how do people exchange e-mails on here, is that something you might consider doing, that way I could go over my story without having to rehash to the whole board

Wow....
Let me just add, I just went back and read some your previous post (Womanoffaith5), it's scarey how you feel/felt the same way I did.
About being replaced.
How all she could say were bad things about me.
How I was a bad parent (that hurt the most), that I never made enought money, that I was mentally ill (I loved that one), I know going thru this whole thing has made me ill....mentally.
Anyway hope to hear your next post

Rustfirefly -- I hear you. It's devastating when restraining orders are placed on you and you are not the one deserving of it. I have a friend who I met through DivorceCare -- his wife placed a restraining order on his also. Same situation, a week later, the *friend* actually moves in to *help* her. Yeah right! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> He's *helping* her alright! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I'm not saying that her actions are based on truth or fact. BUT -- it's a done deal right now and the only way you will have that restraining order lifted is to work through it. PROVE THEM WRONG! I didn't have a restraining order, but I had an ex that was abusive. I had to understand it. You have a restraining order that you want totally OFF and no record. The only way you can do that is to go through an anger management program. The judge believes your ex's lies. PROVE THEM WRONG!

Try to put the shoes on the other foot. Think about what the judge is hearing. Here is a woman who is presenting all this *evidence* and he's the one that has to *protect* her -- even if the restraining order is unfounded. How would you feel as the judge who doesn't place a restraining order on that particular man only to hear a week later that that same man killed his wife? Would you lift that restraining order because the man didn't think it was justified?

Ok...I know -- it's extreme and I would never think that you would do that! Now, here's the same judge who hears the *evidence* placed by the wife. The husband is angry (rightly so) and instead of crossing his arms and refusing to do anything because he is absolutely NOT abusive, and NOT *that way* -- this same man, even though he disagrees, will do anything to have the restraining order lifted. Would you lift that restraining order?

I'm not picking sides here, but I am telling you my experience in the courts and what is looked at. You have a restraining order and you have to deal with it. There's a whole lot of other stuff that's going on (emotional, financial etc.) that you also have to deal with. Break all these things into manageable pieces.

Kids -- what can you do to keep contact and keep a relationship going? How can you nurture the relationship that your wife is bent on destroying? (pick up Divorce Casualties; preventing parental alienation by Darnell -- it will give you some good strategies on dealing with a spouse who has put roadblocks in your way)

Restraining order -- what can you do right now to help lift the restraining order? Take some anger management classes -- if you are not the one that is need of it, it will certainly give you a view of what your wife is going through. I learned a whole lot about my ex and his manipulative tactics. It also taught me a great deal about relationships and how they (the other spouse) will manipulate and triangulate situations so that you look like the bad guy. It taught me not to be in a position where it allowed my spouse to use me for their own selfishness.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have been told to move on, I'm trying, of course I was told by people to move on right after the whole thing started.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's really hard to move on when you lose the one that you love. Realize that she's been thinking about this long before you even realized that she was unhappy. Most people who leave (unless it's for protection) already have dealt with the guilt of leaving etc. She already had another place to go (boyfriend if you will) and it was easy for her to leave.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It just is so hard seeing how easy it was for her to move on, without skipping a beat.
Does she have no remorse of guilt?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've often wondered this myself. Me, being who I am, don't think I could live with the guilt -- but then again I have morals and values. I truly believe my ex doesn't have any of those. (Read the other thread about this). I am sure at some point in time she will have remorse or guilt. My remorse and guilt is that I didn't have the courage or strength to leave sooner (another story!). My ex -- I do think at times he has remorse and guilt when the kids want to spend time with me and refuse to spend time with him and his newest girlfriend. It's my gain and his loss. My family is back! Takes time to develop that relationship with the kids when you have the other parent bad mouthing you etc.

I'm so sorry that you are hurting. I know that us telling you that it takes *time* does little to ease that pain that you have deep inside. Believe me, I can assure you that we all cried our bucket of tears. It's heartwrenching. It's the deepest pain I have ever felt in my life! An experience that I never want to go through again.

When those days get so hard that you feel like you are going to break -- allow yourself to grieve. Cry ... punch a pillow... Take the time to *worry* if that's what you are doing. When it starts consuming your life though, you HAVE to make changes so that you can heal and continue on from here. Life is NOT OVER. This is a beginning. A scarey beginning -- one that you never thought you would see and one that you are not sure of how to begin! I promise you -- it's a BEGINNING.

I skimmed through your story because I think it is very typical for an abusive man to think he isn't abusive. I was on edge about everything -- and still am. For example, last Thursday, we were supposed to meet for lunch at 11:45. I had my two pre-schoolers with me and went for an oil change the day before I was going to drive 2 hours round trip to pick up my MIL for our son's First Communion. They found problems and I said go ahead but I had to be done by 11. They said no problem. They were done at 11:20 and I was in a panic. I had to drive to drop off the pre-schoolers at an hourly child care before meeting my H for lunch. I was going to be late! Panic!

Why? Was it really that big of a deal to be a few minutes late meeting him? Well, there is this undercurrent of disrespect that puts me on edge about everything.

The physical abuse has been gone for 2 years, but that demeaning treatment that led to the physical abuse is still present.

From my perspective, this is what I would recommend: take your W's claim of abuse to heart. Get enrolled in an anger management group. When the kids come over, give them gifts that would have positive meaning to your W. Personally, I love flowers. Many women do. Your children can carry back flowers. They wouldn't be meant necessarily for her, but they would be a symbol of your loving presence to her and the children.

I have done a lot of reading on abuse and I think that the single best book I have read is Harley's book "Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders". It explains how "renters" develop relationships in which they view their spouse as a competitor for limited resources of time and money. The way to "win" is to make demands, have disrespectful judgments, and have angry outbursts.

Disrespectful judgments can be subtle. Before he left this afternoon to take his mother home, he said, "I cleared the table. Could you at least wipe it down?" What does the "at least" in that sentence imply? It implies that I do little or nothing and all he is asking that I put forth a little effort to keep the house clean.

Forget the thought that you haven't been abusive. Physical abuse is far less damaging than emotional abuse.

Sooner or later, your W is going to realize that OM is not as good a father as the biological father to her children. Sooner or later, your W may learn the hard lesson that "If they'll do it with you, they'll do it to you." She'll be looking for a reason, then, to think you have changed. If you are still protesting that you never were abusive, then she won't have the hope necessary to consider a reconciliation.

As I was typing this just now, my H came in and mockingly said (like this was what I was typing): "Tom is no longer doing what I'm telling him to do." You know what? A comment like that is just demeaning. Emotional abuse can be discounted because it is in the eye of the beholder. Physical abuse gets people's attention and sympathy.

You go down a dead end protesting your innocence. If your W is having an affair, then she will need an excuse for it and a reason to consider reconciling with you. Your willingness to take an anger management course could be the beginning of your case for your taking her concerns seriously and your willingness to change.

You have something going for you that no one else in the world has, and that is that you are the children's biological father. Use that to your advantage. Swallow your pride and assume that your W is correct in your assessment that you were abusive and then learn what you can about emotional abuse. Here are two other books "The Emotionally Abusive Relationship" by Beverly Engel and "Search for the Real Self" by James Masterson. One of those books had a list of movies on abuse. "Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf" is a disturbing depection of how we have lived most of our marriage. Good luck to you...

<small>[ April 25, 2004, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

R-
I would be happy to exchange emails with you. Could you post your email address here for me, and I will email you?
My email has my first and last name in it, so I hate to publish it to everyone.
By the way - my ex called the kids last night to tell them that he and the OW have officially "split up". it is funny, my ex has actually been very nice lately - sat with me at older sons game Saturday, chatted as if nothing ever happened. I wondered why he was in a good mood. Now I know why, he is finally free from her.
My kids are thrilled. They look forward to spending time with their dad without the OW hanging around.
If you are ok with posting your email address here, please do. I will check in again later.

R-
I would be happy to exchange emails with you. Could you post your email address here for me, and I will email you?
It is not a good idea to be exchanging emails with the opposite sex, especially when you are going throught he same stuff.
(No. I am not suggesting you are looking for something to happen)

But if you keep it open on the board, you will get more answers and also it will be in the open.

womanoffaith5

Monday morning when my kids were dropped off, my 4th grader said to me, Dad, you can't go on Thursday, I said go on Thursday, she said mom said you can't go to the school parent-student lunch because she is going.
My 4th graders parent-student lunch is on Thursday and just because her mom wants to go, the mom doesn't want me to go.
I am tired of her playing these games (couldn't think of a better word).
We both are parents of this child, why can't she see both parents at the same time, why the they can't be together in the same place game.
I am thinking of confronting her on this issue
and telling her to grow up.
That I am her dad, and I have as much right to be there as she does, after all she is the one that split the family up, she is the one that had the affair, not me. If she is uncomfortable, so be it, what does she have to uncomfortable about? It is me that would be the one uncomfortable, but I would just suck it up
and be there for my daughter.
What are we teaching our kids? Other divorced parents will be there..........AT THE SAME TIME!
How does my daughter feel being caught in the middle of this..........I am not the one putting her in the middle either.......................
I can be there if my ex is there, I can be there If my ex plus her man there too........(that would just be really uncomfortable)....I could understand if I was bringing another womam with me, that my ex would feel uncomfortable, but I am not, It is just me their dad.
Have I used the word "uncomfortable" enough?
By the way my e mail is bobbyb4949@hotmail.com

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your response is typical when you mention RESTRAINING ORDER, It is a terrible label.
Has anyone labeled by ex, LIAR, CHEATER, or anything like that.
When someone gets a restraining order on someone for the right reason they don't have somebody literally waiting in the wings to step in the very next week.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry that you are in terrible pain over this. I am also sorry that you feel my response is *typical* because it is not. I suggested that you take anger management classes to aid in REMOVING the restraining order. If anything, people who have restraining orders *typically* refuse to do anything because they are angry and hurt. I am sorry that you are feeling that way. I suggest that in order to remove the *order* you do something positive -- and anger management classes are exactly that.

Who knows why she got a restraining order? Allegedly it was because she had someone in the wings, but maybe not. We are taking your word for it and you apparently think that all of us will believe that one can go to a judge, ask for a restraining order and voila -- it happens. I for one, being in COURT 42 times (plus more with my job) realize that the judge has to view evidence that indicates a restraining order would be beneficial to the family. I am sure that at time the restraining order is *unfounded* but I think it's better to be safe than sorry. Divorce is an incredible source of stress where emotions run high. I can guarantee that anyone's *normal* demeanor is not one of anger -- but mix divorce into the everyday proceedings and you bet people get angry!

I am sorry that you are hurting and in pain. I am even more sad to hear that instead of working on a marriage or working on better communication with one's husband, this particular woman has chosen to move in the boyfriend. You and kids have to be in pain.

I know how it is to come to a place (MB) and get some advice and support. I also know that sometimes that advice isn't what a person wants to hear. I for one haven't been too happy with some of the responses to my own posts (not many!) -- but you know, that's ok too because it really forced me to re-evalute the way I was looking and taking things in my own life. I respect their opinions. You have two choices here-- continue to be mad about this restraining order and how poor you are that were dumped by the wife, OR------> take this as a blessing. YES, a blessing! You have wonderful kids. You are an intelligent man (one who has advised us many times!) and you have a wonderful future ahead of you. Grieve the marriage that you don't have, but don't lie down and let it kill you. You wife CHOOSE to let all that go! Do you honestly think she's happy? Do you honestly think the judge will keep the restraining order on once he knows the truth? Do you honestly think that you taking a step and taking classes FOR YOURSELF, is a bad thing? Do you think that developing a healthy and close relationship with your kids is a bad thing?

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} You are going to be terrific. This is one of those bumps in the journey. Sometimes it looks horrid from the bottom, but the view from the top is incredible.

I am thinking of confronting her on this issue
and telling her to grow up.
How about NOT confronting her? You KNOW she will not grow up and she will only complain? Just do what is right for your kids and stop any confrontations.

womanoffaith5 & rufustfirefly,
It is not a good idea to be exchanging private emails with the opposite sex, especially when you are going through the same stuff.

Chris -- very good advice.

Sorry, I am always a little behind. I am in the final stages of selling my house, and don't get on the computer as much.
Chris - your comments are all well taken. Let me just say that I am in a wonderful relationship right now, with a great man, and I would not be interested in pursuing any other relationships. The guy I am seeing is so good to me, that I would not do anything to hurt him.
Also, when you say that rufus and I going through the same stuff, I have to say that I am not going through this stuff now - I did this last year. The message I hope to share with Rufus is this - you will get through this.
I read this story about lunch at the school, and I remember these feelings - you feel like this is the way it will always be, that you won't be able to attend anymore school functions becuase of this awkwardness.
Here is the thing I hope to share - things will not always be this way. Today may seem awful. The nights will always be the hardest. But morning comes. And things look better in the morning. And things will look better in a month, in 6 months, etc.
Should you confront her? I don't know about that. It would probably lead to a huge fight. And if we try to figure out what is happening on her side for a minute - she says it would be uncomfortable - of course it will be. She committed adultry! And everyone at the school knows it. Eventually she will have to come to terms with that. Keeping up with her current activity level (plotting every day to find ways to avoid any contact what so ever with you) will get to be too much work, and she will relax.
I spent many nights crying - sure that the OW would be at every sporting event my boys played in for the next 5 years. I figured she was going to take my place at all the holidays, and that I would never recover from it all. Guess what - I DID recover.
And the OW is gone. She will not be at any of the baseball games this year - because the happy couple is no longer.
And once again, I see glimpses of the man I once knew. He is friendly again. He calls to chat about the boys and their activites. We sit together at games!
I am not interested in him as a spouse anymore, but if we can be friendly to each other, the kids will be so much better off.
Right now I am glad I did not confront him all the times I wanted to. I am glad that I alyways waited a couple of days to cool off first.
I am glad that I have always treated him with kindness, and respect, even when he didn't deserve it! The man screamed at me once that he hated me, would always hate me, and that he would be with the OW for the rest of his life.
Guess what, 10 months later, he is not with her, and he does not hate me.
Last year was bad.
This year is better.
hang in there
Monring will come, and things will seem better. The issues that consume you today, will not be there next week. Instead, you will have something new to stress out about!
Always be the nice one
Always treat her with respect. That alone will make her mad!! She is trying to get a reaction out of you - don't give her one!!

Just had to vent here for a minute, I guess vent my hurt feelings.

Today was ex-wifes weekend for kids.
We had 2 soccer games though, 1st one went good, 2nd went good till after it was over.
When I was walking back to car, my ex was walking about 30 feet ahead of me with our youngest, my 10 year old was walking beside me talking about the game. This was her first game in 5 years (since kindergarten), her mom started trying to get my daughter to catch up with her, I think more of to get her away from me.
When out of the blue my ex shouts out "I don't want you walking behind me" I'm like WOW, that hurts. I didn't say anything. I wanted to say something to the affect, don't do this to our children, or I'm still their parent show me some respect please, but I didn't say anything.
I just don't get it, why does she have to do this in front of our kids? What is she trying to prove. I go to the game, I sit with the other parents, she sits off by herself, I play with my daughter during her sisters game.
Everything is fine, then WHAM.
She has to do that.
I just had to get that off my chest, I really damponed my spirits.
I just want to be able to be the best parent I can under these circumstances, and she keeps on with these roadblocks, unnessary ones.

<small>[ August 09, 2004, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]</small>

........aborted....boy you said it.
That is exactly how it feels.
My kids have been my main focus since they were born. How unnatural, how unparentel it is to be walking near your kids and having her keeping me away, I mean say I have the kids, then it is time for them to go to her, its like there she is in the distant, go to her kids....
as soon as they leave, what I'm not their parent anymore, I'm not able to talk to them.

It is weird, you talked about be compelled Laura, after the incident (not really an incident) after after the game, I just had talk to somebody, it just really hurt my feelings.
When I got home I went to post, and there it was a post at the top, originated or at least involving me from over a year ago.
You know what the first think I thought was, that my ex came to the board to take a jibe at me or to say, you just violated your r/o, by being near me at the game.
Or that me being near my kids was making her feel uncomfortable, that that was harrasment.
But after reading your post I could tell it was not her.... by a the tone of your message, and by b the date you registered.
You should look up my post about "Do you think your ex-spouse reads your post"

....continuing....who is on her side....her family....at least her mom....her boyfriend (I guess her was on her side when we were married, on her side, on her top, underneath her......
sorry about that, I couldn't resist)
She can say look, I have an r/o on him, that means he is abusive, he is a bad guy, look the judge upheld it.
I have got friends, I have kid's parents, the people at the schools, who see the truth.
I volunteer at school as much as possible so I can be near or with my kids. I was actually named volunteer of the month. Which I am honored to get, but I think they may have done it out of feeling sorry for me.
So it hurts emensly for her to try and portray me as the bad guy.

<small>[ August 09, 2004, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]</small>

<small>[ August 09, 2004, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]</small>

Thank You Laura Lee

The nose picker analogy made me smile, it is if she is doing that.
But I hurt for my children too, I hurt for people feeling that way about their mom.
I hurt today too, seeing my daughter almost score a goal, then me looking down the field to see her mom, I just wanted to say look at our kid, look at her, look how good she is doing, look what a beautiful young lady she is becoming.
What hurts are days like today, days when I don't take my kids home with me, when the game is over the other families pack up and go home, as a family. Mine on the other hand are being wisked away by their mom, and I am left standing alone, alone to go home to an empty home.
I fear that someday she may try and take my kids away from me, take them to a new school, a
school where she thinks she can start over, over so she doesn't have to go into school feeling guilty, a place she can go to where they don't know her. I'm sure she is uncomfortable coming to my kid's school now, because she knows how people at the school have been there for me.
I have empathy for her too, I want her to be liked, I just wish she could treat me fairly, as a equal parent, not as some toxic waste, that if she even looks at me makes her sick.
What does this teach our kids, not tolerance, not compassion, my kids are left with the fact that their parents not sit down at the same table and have lunch with them.
We tell our kids, be nice to others, treat them as you wish to be treated.

<small>[ August 09, 2004, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]</small>

Thank You Laura
I just wish my ex would not be so angry and rude to me.
I don't understand why she continues to be this way.
The way she acts towards me I could understand if I were the one that left her or kicked her out for another woman. What does she have to be mad about.
It is her problem, but I don't know how I can go on being treated this way in front of our children. We have many years ahead raising our kids, I just don't know how our kids are going to cope with the way she is acting.