Okay, I really wanted to post this morning as I was REALLY fumimg then and I only have a few minutes to post right now.<BR>In short...this early am my H is leaving for yet another trip. And to NJ. I was quiet and he asks why and I tell him that I do not want him to go, that I always get scared when he goes away that he will see her , especially when he goes to Jersey. He says that I'm being silly b/c she is 5 hours away (but really it is only 3) and he said he wouldn't do it again and he hasn't spoken to her for about a year...and I try to explain that it is a FEAR, I didn't say it was a rational thought. AND...if we were to look at it rationally...lets do that!<BR>~He said she is only 3 hours away, well they BOTH drove over 2 hours to see each other in the past!<BR>~He said he wouldn't do it again...he said he would never hurt me like this and never cheat on me, and he did.<BR>~and finally, he hasn't had contact with her at all for about a year...well I'll be! He souldn't have had the contact he did, and what about the child support he sends every month and will be for the next 18 YEARS!(I know that one is a stretch but I'm really angry now!)<BR>And then we get into the usual thing where he says that I never trusted him and I say yes I did but since I had been cheated on before in a less serious, (but not less significant) relationship, the hurt I got from that person was painful enough. I let it go as much as I could and let my H in and then he did it too and added the hurt if impregnating her. (trust and blame are big issues for us right now, ones that we have pretty much hit a standstill on and I have been trying to work on those, but they are also another post, right now I have this issue burning...)<BR>SOOOOO>, now that I've gotten that out, here are the feelings I have right now...I have told him since day one that I needed cards, flowers, candles, romance, I need to be "wooed" again, dated, surprised, pampered. Hell, I think that is obvious for all of us!<BR>He says that he is trying, and yes he is, I do not deny that. He is doing things that he never would have done, therapy, talking things out, listening to me, Retrouvaille...he tells me he loves me, that he is committed to trying to work it out, that he loves me. Yes I see these things, I really do. But when I am in a moment of fear the last thing I need is to be told that my fear is irrational and for him to point out how irrational it is by him explaining how it can't happen or won't happen. I told him today that instead of being told all that, and also reminding me of what I did to make him so vulnerable to another woman, I need to hear at THAT MOMENT OF THE FEAR that he loves me and that it will never happen again and that he understands what I am feeling, or say he doesn't and that he needs me to explian it all again...AAARRRGGGHHH!!!I have been thru this conversation with him before.<BR>I need this reassurance when i am fearful, and I need the romance and pampering to help me feel special to him again. I know that i have said this before, but you know what, If i were in his shoes, I would be setting up romantic nights, candles, dressing up in teddies just for him, buying a gift just cuz he mentions he likes it or needs one(Like a toolbox),I would be breaking the balls I don't ghave to prove to him I love him and that I made a mistake, not just be doing the stuff that needs to be done, that has to be done, or should have deen done 4 years ago.<BR>Okay, I'm late for my errands today, and I'm glad I have vented. Thanks once agaun for listening!<BR>still...not giving up

Have you tried putting this in a letter to him? Sometimes that is the only way that I can break through to my H, in writing. Just a thought.

ooooo Sainthood that is a nice point! Some people are very visual, others prefer to hear/discuss something, others are more physical, etc. <P>Not sure if that will help you NGU, but prayers for your relationship today!<BR>J

NGU:<P>The power of the printed word has incredible impact on people.<P>In late May of 1999, I posted a lengthy letter on GQ entitled "My Once in a Lifetime" or something to that effect. I was in crushing pain and only six months past D-day 1, (the 'fling') and D-day 2 (the pregnancy) and my husband was in withdrawal and vascillating between being very cold and rejecting one moment and desperate to reconnect the next. Lot's of double messages and tons of distance between us.<P>Most of you are probably bored to tears hearing me rehash this story, but it bears re-telling because of the miracle that occurred after he read my post on GQ two plus years ago.<P>I couldn't reach my husband. I was in agony and in shock from the events of the preceding 6-7 months. I didn't understand how he could turn his back on me and leave me for someone else, even if it was only for a few weekends. When he came home he was so attentive and eager to please, promising his dedication, only to flip back into being a complete jerk after just a few weeks. He flipped back and forth for months until I simply just couldn't stand it one more moment and bared my soul and gutted myself in this ridiculously long letter to him, posted here.<P>I printed it up and left it on the table for him to see, then packed a bag and left for four days.<P>He left me several voice mails on my cell phone saying, "I read your letter and it has shaken me to my soul...I didn't know you felt like this." Then another message saying, "I have to talk to you...please call...we have to talk, it's really important we talk." Then another, and another, and another...<P>When I got home, he told me that he knows I have verbally told him all these things but it really didn't sink in and reach him until he saw it in print and read it because he was able to read it over and over again and digest it. <P>He finally 'got it' and from that point on, he was recommitted to me and to our marriage. I can't believe he didn't 'hear' me before reading it, but he didn't, even though I would go on and on...I suppose it might have sounded like nagging to him or chastising. Well, he's a chowderhead.<P>My point is, if you want to make an impact, make a difference in the marriage, write down everything you feel, think and desire...tell him how much he has always meant to you, how deeply you love him and desire him and want this marriage. Tell him your fears and frustrations and your pain. Say it all, from deep within your soul, without scolding or reprimands and see if he doesn't respond.<P>I was in such pain, it stuns me I was able to survive it all, looking back to that horrible, horrible time.<P>A man cannot resist a woman in love with him. He may try to resist or placate himself with someone else for a time, but if he turns his back on true devotion, he will end up missing you the rest of his life.<P>Catnip =^^=

From now on I will just have to say, refer to catnip....lol<BR>No wonder your H got it went you wrote it.

T4S:<P>After nearly two years, I am a little embarrassed at the raw emotion and drama of that post, but it did make a huge difference in our recovery. It was genuine. I meant it. And he knew it.<P>When I see newbies in the early stages of discovery and recovery, my heart just breaks for them if they are feeling one tenth of what I felt...and they are. I remember the isolation and the pain so well and the absolute confusion and despair. That empty hollow feeling deep in my soul, the loss of my joy and knowing nothing will ever be as it was. And I can't stand that others are feeling this profound sadness in their lives. It is torture none of us deserve.<P>It stuns me that we are the ones making all the efforts in the beginning and yet this is how it is for almost all of us. Just part of the process, as unfair as it is. We all feel that taking our WS's back is such a supreme 'gift' after the destruction they have caused, we are flabbergasted that they are so cavalier and make so little attempt to display the remorse we desperately need to see in order to begin the healing process. All newbies feel the WS's should get down on their knees and thank God for another chance to restore their marriages and families after all they have done and find it confusing that they do not...at first.<P>It is only AFTER the WS's realize that the damage is not so extensive that they can and will be able to recover from their terrible actions, that they finally start making the efforts themselves. But it takes at least six months, just like Harley predicts and professes, for this to come about.<P>We think they should be licking our boots when in reality, they are still licking their wounds and watching to see if we can ever forgive them before they truly recommit.<P>But, this is how it goes for nearly all of us to some degree or another. Go figure.<P>Catnip =^^=

Thank you all for the idea, however I have often written several letters in my head (not only to him, but her as well)and it is just so hard to find the time to write lately. I began a journal also and really miss writing in that. I wrote a letter about 3 months after d-day, very long and brutally honest. He read it and never commented on it. When I asked him if he read it he said yes, and didn't say anything more...I sat there amazed...it took me a week to pour my soul outin that letter. He looked at me and said "What?" and I asked him if that was all he was going to say, and his response was..."Well, we have really already discussed all you wrote in the letter." I just shook my head.<BR>So although I do speak better with the written word, I just don't have it in me to put so much strength into something that will be read, folded and put away.<BR>

NGU<P>How disappointing for you. I am so sorry you put so much of yourself into a letter that seemed to be dismissed when it was such a gift. Maybe the trick isn't so much to write the letter but to write it then leave town for several days to give them something to think about. I don't know..maybe I ain't so smart...or the timing just happened to be right for me.<P>I don't know what I would have done with a non-response.<P>The thing I am worrying about for you is that there seems to be a lot of 'festering' going on. When people don't see any improvement, they tend to get pretty bitter in a hurry. I sincerely hope your husband sees the light before too much damage is done.<P>Would you two consider a Retrouvaille weekend together? Look up their website...they claim an incredible 80 or 90% success rate.<P>Good luck, NGU...I'm sorry your husband isn't giving you what you need and want right now. I hope he will turn the corner soon. Hang in there for at least six months and see if the time frame element happens for you.<P>Catnip =^^= <p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited July 25, 2001).]

NGU,<P>Yep that is pretty much the same scenerio I have always gotten with my H. Lately (twice actually) I have written to tell him fo his good points and to let him know that I realized how mean I have gotten to him. The first letter he came to bed and hugged me (i had left it on the toilet for him to find when he got off work at 5am). Things were great for a week or so and then a fight. And we would be good for another week and a fight. Mind you, this was good for us bc before the letter we were fighting nearly every day. The last one we got in he really hurt my feelings bc I was crying and told him how hard I had been trying and he might as well have laughed in my face. It is like it just goes in one ear and out the other, even if he is reading it.<BR>Men! ugh.<BR>Love and Prayers,<BR>bw<BR><p>[This message has been edited by broken_wings (edited July 25, 2001).]

OK NGU,<P>You and I have talked extensively on this point until the wee hours in the morning. I'm wondering now if you hear some of my words echoed in Catnip's post.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It is only AFTER the WS's realize that the damage is not so extensive that they can and will be able to recover from their terrible actions, that they finally start making the efforts themselves. But it takes at least six months, just like Harley predicts and professes, for this to come about.<P>We think they should be licking our boots when in reality, they are still licking their wounds and watching to see if we can ever forgive them before they truly recommit.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The thing I am worrying about for you is that there seems to be a lot of 'festering' going on. When people don't see any improvement, they tend to get pretty bitter in a hurry. I sincerely hope your husband sees the light before too much damage is done.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>The turn around for my husband.... and yes it was just at six months... was when I stopped acting like a victim, and made the conscious decision that it wasn't my job to punish him. He was doing that enough himself. When I started worrying about me and how "I" was going to make "myself" feel better....ie: taking the Wellbutrin.... he seemed to slide out of his nochalantness (if that's a word) and suddenly became that attentive loving husband I desired sooooo much, especially during those times of FEAR. And boy did I have many.<P>I cannot stress to you the affects the festering that Catnip mentioned above will cause. In my case the fester led my husband to have an emotional affair with another. Who else would tell him that what he did was forgiveable and that he wasn't an evil person because he cheated on me? <P>She did. <P>I wasn't telling him that, I was telling him with words and actions that he was trash for ever cheating and he would have to make it up to me for a million years before he'd be forgiven. <P>Exactly the opposite of what he wanted/needed to hear. And I know that need word sticks out like a sore thumb with you being in the spot you are in right now. You're probably thinking, what about what I need. Well lemme tell you.... the reason you two are in this mess in the first place is both of you were not getting your needs met. <P>NGU, meet his.... invest in his.... he will in turn meet yours... I promise. If he doesn't you can sue me! <P>We'll talk more privately... then where we both can get loud if we have too! <P>Z.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Zebra Baby ...<P>Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Zebra, how many more sessions before you start charging? Would a bottle of vino do...and I promise it will not taste like koolaid! ( you think just the white zin is bad, we picked up a bottle of Passion fruit white zin, <<<<twang>>>>><BR>I loof forward to more chats! NGU

I'm currently hooked on J.Lohr Chardonnay. It'll be the favorite for a moment. Please send it directly to<P>Zebra Wino Baby<BR>789 Sholder to Lean On Lane<BR>Wellbutrin, Georgia<P>I look forward to our next session too! maybe sat night after H goes to bed. I'm off Sunday so I can chat late.<P>See ya sweetie,<BR>Z.<P>------------------<BR>Zebra Baby ...<P>Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Unfortunately Sat nite is bad since we will be at a barbeque I am sure until very late and he will have just gotten home from a trip. I will be on-line tues and Wed nites? How 'bout you?...maybe I'll have a little bit of good news...who knows.<BR>NGU

Where do you ladies chat? May I join? I have AOL.<P>MJ