I hope I do not affend anyone by this question/comment. I feel that if you would ask any of the ow if the man could choose if he wanted to participate in the oc life, meaning no child support no help what so ever. You could almost gaurantee the unwanted pregnancies would decline drastically. Give me some feedback.

I think so too..We provide support for oc..because it's the legal thing to do, if we had a choice, we would not provide monetary support at all.

no offense whatsoever!!<p>I think you have hit it right on...I know in my case anyway. The ow told hubby she was doing it for the $$...she just didn't have it in her to tell me that after I threatened her if I ever seen her. But that is another story. It makes me sick to think that these leaches are finding ways to attach themselves to whatever they can however they can. They live off the system and CS so they can sit on their a$$. <p>Sorry if I got off the subject I'm just a teeny bit angry if you cant tell <p>Jules

Hello,
This is my first time to do anything like this. Please bare with my learning curve. I was married for eight years and my husband and I separated for a time. During that time my husband hooked up with a woman for a couple of months, got her pregnant and was very clear and vehement with her that he did not want to be a parent to her child. She told him that she wanted to be a "Mom" and she would not hold him responsible in anyway. The child is now a year and a half and she has sued him for child support. He makes a good living and half his paycheck is being garnished as I write. Is there any recourse in situations like this that anyone has heard of?? I am at my wits end....filled with so many emotions. Can really relate to Jules27's anger. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

msclyde,<p>I'm glad you have found this place, it's a nice feeling to have someone to talk to that is going through the same thing. And it is a nice place to "let go" of some of the anger you have, makes you feel a little better. <p>Did your husband sign the birth certificate when oc was born? or did you have a paternity test done? I'm just curious if he is paying back support or if it was as of the date paternity was proven. OW told me that she wants nothing from H but we know how that goes don't we (plus she told H different story). I'm dreading January but at the same time I'm ready to get this over with and move on from there. <p>Hugs
Jules

msclyde, iam sorry to here you are in this crappy situation. i am on the other side of your story though. my w had an a and is pregnant. i feel very stongly that this om should be responsible for his actions. i am sorry about ow's condition but the fact is your h could have used PROTECTION. in my case my w spent the last year preaching to our 19 yr old daudhter about all the reasons to practice safe sex (std's & pregnancy). then she ends up p. go figure. i know you probably didn't want to here this particular view but i thought it might help you see things from another angle.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> i am sorry about ow's condition but the fact is your h could have used PROTECTION. <hr></blockquote><p>Pops thats a worn out statement. In the heat of an affair they do not thinkabout protection. Or else like in our case ow lies about being on the pill. Then lies when H goes crazy and DOESN't want a child and tell's H that it's ok she'll raise it alone...ha!!! Now that her H is back she's suing for cs...hospital bills...baby Dr. visits....PUHLEEZE!!!!! SHE had all the marbles after she found out about pregnancy.....sheese!!! <p>Oh well maybe some day we can protect ourselves from this life sentence of 18 yrs, to pay for a few moments on the devils playground for 18 years and disrupt all others involved is redundant to say the least.<p>In your case you want om to suffer. Same as in our case as ow is STILL married and since H came home we got the lawyer letters of cs all of a sudden....I guess it'll help him pay for his other 3 kids as he's jobless and his kids have no health insurance or $ from dad.
Mom is wealthy and can buy and sell us. And her h for that matter. (maybe that's why he's home?)<p>Oh no wait! ow just got a 2002 cadillac...we can make the car payment for 18 years!!!!!
If her and h stay together....they make out. <p>Sorry but it pisses us off.<p>
debi<p>[ November 26, 2001: Message edited by: gemini1 ]</p>

Here's my thoughts ....<p>What was I thinking going to college for 4 years and working hard to get a job to support myself and my family? All I needed to do was find a boss to have sex with, continue to get pregnant and insure myself of a weekly paycheck! It seems to work for OW. Heck she didn't even need a high school diplomia to earn all of this money!<p>Why are these women rewarded for this awful behavior? It is beyond me!!!!!!<p>Why

As long as the corrupt and evil system mandates outrageous support amounts be extorted from the wayward spouse, there will be immoral and predatory women looking for a handout, and using any means to get what they want...including intentionally allowing themselves to get knocked up for the express purpose of securing a meal ticket.<p>This is not to say that this is true in all cases (accidents happen) however, the system has a one size fits all policy that generously gives OUR money to a virtual stranger as if she were a spouse of many years instead of a three weekend fling with an agenda.<p>There has to be a sliding scale, in my not so humble opinion, where each case is scrutinized for intent and outcome, even allowing the other parent the option of whether or not they wish to accept responsibility for the child. Adoption should always be encouraged in situations such as these, as there are too many children out there without a father as it is through divorce alone. If the system would stop coddling these women, the incentive to get themselves knocked up would rapidly decline.<p>The family court is an arbitrary court as neither the state or federal courts want to deal with family issues and turn over the cases to a hearing officer who does not have to go by the letter of the law in many cases, and is allowed to arbitrarily mandate ridiculous and punitive CS amounts onto the non custodial "parent". The family courts do not have to answer to anyone nor are they monitored by anyone in many cases because the fed and state just don't have the time or the inclination to do so.<p>In cases such as mine, the hearing officer refused to consider our income tax statements showing we had nothing and chose to go with what my husband was 'capable' of making without considering his age, his illness and the domino effect his actions had on our life overall. They just don't care. They then award a strumpet the same huge amount of money as a wife of many years would receive, as if this woman is entitled to the benefits of a married woman who has worked side by side with her husband to build a life, a family and a future together.<p>The courts do not care we were nearly rendered homeless and had to rent out our house to save it from foreclosure, they do not care we lost everything, they do not care I suffered, they do not care...and neither does the OW. She just didn't care what this would do to me or to my life or my marriage. She wanted a kid, she wanted money and she hired an aggressive attorney and made my husband sound like a millionaire...and the courts believed her, refusing to consider our financial documents and even accused us of "cooking the books". We sent the courts reams of documentation to prove our situation but the arrears kept accruing at an alarming rate and the ultimate determination was outrageous, garnsihing all but $150 a week to live on. She now gets $1300 per month (which was our mortgage payment) and I can't afford to pay attention.<p>I hate the system almost as much as I hate her. And my husband is finally recovering from his illness after three years and has to deal with the horror of what he has done while I mourn all we have lost, most especially, us. What we were and what we had when we were 'us'.<p>The system has paralyzed us and taken everything from us except our determination to rebuild ourselves and find even more creative ways to hide any assets we may acquire, including getting a faux divorce, which we did last year. The OW had her sights on our house and her attorney was ready to put a lien on our house for the monsterous arrears that had accumulated while my husband was hospitalized. Luckily, the divorce went through (via a $500 paralegal) and my husband signed over a quit claim deed to me on our house securing our equity from her greedy hands.<p>There are many things you can do to secure some of your assets including getting a divorce for the express purpose of saving your equity and other family assets. You can remarry later in a few months, but be sure to enter into a prenuptual agreement and never buy anything again in your husband's name because anything in his name is fair (unfair) game. Everything should be in your name alone.<p>Yeah, Pops, they should have used protection...and in a perfect world they would have...in a perfect world this never would have happened to begin with. When an OW tells a MM that she is safe, she ain't. So sing it to the choir. After the fact chastising does nothing but explain the obvious. We have to look for creative solutions until something in this ridiculous system changes.<p>One thing I am trying to do is sue the OW for Personal Injury...mine. She injured me personally when she went ahead, knowing full well my husband was ill, I was desperate to help him, loved him and begged her to back off the first week she met him. She was rude and cruel telling me basically to drop dead, not to call her or she'd kick my [censored]. My desperate pleading for compassion was met with heartlessness that eventually turned into an OC that we want nothing to do with. If the OW (Opportunistic Whore) wanted a kid so damn bad, then she should be completely responsible for it and not ruin my life in the process. <p>Every dog (cat) has it's day, and it is almost my turn.<p>Catnip =^^=

My gawd Catnip!!!!! You always come through with the full thought!!!! Thanks for your perspective on this hotly debated issue.<p>I do not respect your views Pops ...only sympathize...I'd feel EXACTLY as you if my wife showed as much concern for her baby from an affair as yours does. I don't believe FullHouse for a minute.<p>She isn't seperating A from baby. She's fantasizing om w/her as H and W... raising baby together.<p>It's how they all think till they get outta the fog.<p>Trust me.<p>I'm a woman and could NEVER do this to a man I loved or respected.<p>In fact.....I WOULD do it to pull all punches in hopes a son or daughter would wake MM up and be with me! That almost never happens....God keeps his flock together.<p>Debi

Thanks for the responses,
In a weird way it makes me feel better that I am not the only one in this position. I guess I am hoping that there is strength in numbers. To you Pops...I have spent countless hours wondering why my husband didn't insist on wearing a condom. I have beat that dead horse bloody. They each had a choice as to protecting themselves. They each chose not to. My h rights and choices ended there. It was a 250,000.00 lay......my anger is not just directed toward the ow but in an effort to move forward with my life I now have to do damage control where it will make a difference. Meaning forgiveness of my h past actions is my focus. Why does this woman have the right to completely ruin the lives of so many. The oc is going to suffer for her selfish choices more than anyone. I am sickened by the existence of her very kind. YUCK!
As for you Catnip......HURRAY!! I could feel your words in my being as I read them. Do you know of any legal basis that people in our position have in the courts for some kind of remedy? This is wrong on so many levels. The financial ruin we are facing by itself is devastating. Add to that all of the emotional garbage about having a child in the world that I feel some perverse emotional responsibility for. Sometimes I feel so overwhelmed.This has got to change.....Women are not victims. We have worked for freedom and with that comes responsibility. As much as that sucks sometimes. My h has been visiting a site called lc4m (legalized choice for men) they address some of these same topics. Thanks for letting me vent and thanks for the words of support. I am so glad I found this site.<p>
msclyde

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>lc4m<hr></blockquote><p>Exact site if you will.... Msclyde...very interested......
Debi

I feel for all of you, such bitterness and pain. You act as though your husbands are blameless and these women went out of their way to hunt them down. I am not trying to belittle you, but I cant believe you are so blind. The man that I was befriended by, I thought was a friend, the relationship grew before I really realized how far it had gone, he constantly persued me. And yes I was weak and had an affair (2 nights) and I was filled with such guilt that I (ME) broke it off. Telling him this would never happen again. Before we were intimate, I stated I was not on any type of birth control or had any protection (since this wasnt planned on my part) Yet I trusted him when he told me not to worry he would take care of it. I did not want to get pregnant. And I do not want him in my life. I had an abortion when I was 18, and have lived with the pain all these years. I am trying to talk myself into adoption, but I am having a real hard time with that. My husband WANTS me to go after child support if I choose to keep this little girl (which I do love and it has nothing to do with who made her or how she was conceived)!
I have loved my husbands child from a relationship he had (she was 1 month pregnant when I met him) with a former girlfriend, and I will always love him even though she put us through hell most of his young life, and yes we paid child support for 18 years. But isnt that the responsibility of both adults? I do not fantasize about the bio father, in fact I am sicken by him, because I found out later that this is a thing he loves doing, going after married women. I know it is just as much my fault, but I know the Lord has forgiven me and I am working very hard on my marriage. But I need to be concerned with my husbands wishes, so if I do keep my child, I will probably have to look into child support because my husband thinks it is best that the bio father be responsible for his part. You are all very much hurt, and you may not believe me, but so am I and so is my husband. My life--if I could go back--I would never have made the choices I did..and I am very sorry if this causes any pain to his wife and family, I do not want to hurt them. But remember the husband is to blame for this also. He was just a irresponsible as the woman, he should have thought about what might happen. As I said before, I would love to raise this child with my other 7 children (that includes my husbands son) and love it without ever having the other family involved. but that may not be possible--to keep my family together I will have to follow my heart and listen to what my husband wants, what he can live with, that is what I must do. I hope this makes sense and I hope I dont affend anyone. I am a Christian, and yes I have sinned a terrible sin. But through the Lord I am praying my family will be healed and I will be forgiven. I have to earn and work hard to get back the trust I have lost. I know in my heart this will never happen again for the rest of my days--because I could never face this much hurt or pain again or the knowledge of what I might have lost or still may lose.

gemini1,
Exact site is http://www.nas.com/c4m/index.html
Hope this is of some interest to you. Let me know.<p>msclyde

I am sorry to say, that if men want to have legal rights of choice, than they better make better decisions in the first place. The idiot I got involved with could have cared less if he got me pregnant, and he still feels that way. As I said before its both parties fault and they both need to take responsibility for their actions. That is the consequences of being irresponsible. Not everyone is out there to destroy both families life. But when you think about it logically, why is it that the woman should suffer and the man and his family should go on like nothing ever happened. And this is from the view point of someone that doesnt even want to involve the other family. But does that make sense? It was as much his fault as hers, so what makes him less responsible?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tmdt:
<strong>I hope I do not affend anyone by this question/comment. I feel that if you would ask any of the ow if the man could choose if he wanted to participate in the oc life, meaning no child support no help what so ever. You could almost gaurantee the unwanted pregnancies would decline drastically. Give me some feedback.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hi tmdt,
No offense taken, unfortunately, if I understand what you are asking, the question usually follows the pregnancy... I think you have the scenario backwards. Are you saying that if the OW is told she would have no support whatsoever if she gets pregnant, would she abort the baby? Are you implying that CS is the reason why OW get pregnant???<p>Because believe me, when I discovered I was pregnant by a MM, I KNEW I was alone, alone, alone... MM didn't have to answer that question for me. I'm sure his wife understood that I was not after them nor their money. I filed for CS after 5 years out of a sense of fairness to OC, not because I was after anybody's money. For crying out loud, OCs are just as innocent as BSs.<p>And there is a huge difference between an unwanted pregnancy and an unplanned pregnancy. You forgot to add this to your statement.<p>The "other" pregnancy is absolutely and understandably unwanted by the married couple who is attempting to recover from the affair. OTOH, the pregnancy could be considered merely an unplanned pregnancy by the OW--speaking for myself, here. NOT that either is an easy situation to be involved in. Both are equally tough. I feel I might be overstating because I have said this before many times, but my kid is and was always loved and wanted by me.<p>I knew MM already had a family. I had the right to choose to keep the baby as much as anyone else has the right to abort their baby or give their baby up for adoption. I'm sure MM would rather have kept his finances to himself as well, but OC has a right to be supported by both parents by law. I'm not saying illegitimate OC possesses the same entitlements as MMs own children by any means, but have half a heart! Sheesh!<p>Everyone's situation is different. It's very sad when you are in a marriage and an interloper is invited to come in between the partners without the other's consent. Then, to add insult to injury, the intruder gets pregnant! OR the partner gets pregnant! Talk about a reality check. All of a sudden, THEN we remember all our Christian values. THEN we begin to consider our options. THEN we start to count the cost. THEN, and only then do the consequences reveal themselves. Sorry. It's just the nature of temptation. The devil does not and never has played fair, people. So now, what do we do?<p>In the heat of a PA, no one is thinking about pregnancy... It doesn't mean they are not using protection. Well, I should speak only for myself because I beg your pardon but some of us OW WERE out there using birth control, NOT trying to steal anyone's husband, and trust me, we were DEFINITELY NOT getting rich on what MM paid for CS in the least...<p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

Welcome to the new people and thank you for the Men's Project link; I'll check it out. <p>IMO, society is always playing catch-up... laws that exist now are in place to right the wrongs of the past, as in the irresponsible "dead-beat dad" story we're all familiar with. Families headed by single women fair worse statistically, and ch-support was to right that. As usual, we've leerched too far the other direction, and sometimes rewarding the wrong party! Men usually fare unfairly worse on custody issues and there are definately instances where men, married or not, are "framed" by unwanted pregnancy and sometimes outrageous support amounts. <p>BinThere, every situation is different. You did the best you could and your attitude now is commendable. Some women are "out to get" the MM (or any man!); other pregnancies are accidental and the XOW/woman does the best she can with a crummy situation, and sometimes she comes out the looser [er...loser! that was a typo, honest]. <p>A friend's H has ex-wife who successfully prevents him from being in contact with his son, but she just got his ch-support amount DOUBLED, (plus $10,000 in dental care!), plus HE had to pay HER lawyer for the privilege. ALL LEGAL! It stuns my senses.<p>Personally I don't think going back to letting all men off "scott-free" from every pregnancy is the solution, but there ought to be fair national guidelines instead of the piecemeal, sometimes outrageously high or low ch-support decisions that occur.<p>I also believe there can be no perfectly just guidelines so long as people exist who abuse any and every situation...<p>Jenny
3+years recovery<p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: Jenny ]<p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: Jenny ]</p>

Fullhouse wrote:<<As I said before its both parties fault and they both need to take responsibility for their actions. That is the consequences of being irresponsible>><p>You are absolutely correct in that assessment, it is BOTH parties faults. BOTH should have used protection. BOTH. She should have used some form of foam/condom/pill/_________fill in the blanks.
HE (meaning, my H or any WH etc. ______ fill in the blank for your adjective of choice) should have used a condom, gotten a vasectomy, pulled out...whatever......
BOTH are responsible.<p>We are paying our financial obligation. Adoption was my H's second "responsible choice". Of course, being a mother myself, I can understand that OW may not be able to bring herself to give OC up for adoption. THAT WAS HER CHOICE. Therefore, she does bear responsibility for raising OC ALONE.(Her choice, but she wanted H to raise the child too.)<p>Of course, I must be just talking about our situation. As I have stated before, there isn't a one size fits all for these types of situations and in our case, OW had an ulterior motive. She wanted my H and would stop at nothing to keep him.
Now she stole from me, my H's sperm, my H's last name for her child (given without his permission) and now our money. (of course we do have to pay our financial obligation, even if we choose not to be a part of OC's life.)<p>Bitter, in my case, I think not. Angry at irresponsible and selfish people? YES I AM!<p>BOTH were responsible. BOTH were selfish. Now, OC and I BOTH suffer as a result of THEIR selfishness and personal agendas.<p>I hold BOTH responsible. I am trying to forgive as the Lord has taught me. But actions do have consequnces and I don't think the OW in our case should be rewarded for trying to thwart our marriage.<p>I do make my H accountable for what he did to me and our children and our marriage and how in a fit of passion he threw away what was most sacred to us, his marriage vows for a few moments of pleasure. <p>These are just my .o2 cents here.
Hugs,
Twiisty
and I still pray for wisdom and discernment for you and your husband (as well for ourselves). <p>We all need wisdom in our lives. Perhaps we all learned from all of this and what our choices do to affect others. I know I have learned more about myself and what I am capable and not capable of in the last 7 months than any other time in my life.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by full house:
[QB]I feel for all of you, such bitterness and pain. You act as though your husbands are blameless and these women went out of their way to hunt them down. I am not trying to belittle you, but I cant believe you are so blind. QB]<hr></blockquote><p>Dear Full House<p>Au contrare...none of us feel our husbands are blameless...believe me. The entire first year after discovery was spent discussing, disecting, grieving, mourning, blaming, shouting, sobbing, making love to reconnect, and living and breathing every waking moment and sleeping moment (nightmares) obsessing and going through all the normal stages of denial, accusations, grief and anger and now, finally, acceptance.<p>I know what my husband did. He paid and continue to pay and will pay forever for his fall from grace. But, I am not talking about him or what HE did right now...that's a given. That's another chapter, another issue and handled in a more direct and personal way. I still have unresolved issues with OW and what SHE did and this is why OW gets the spotlight here on this site...because I can't resolve this with her like I can with my husband.<p>Every day I get what I need from my husband, little by little, to keep the healing process going. So, please do not dismiss the high drama that goes on in each of our homes and in our hearts that is not fully revealed here because it is ever changing and ever present and continuing in our daily lives. The focus on the OW and the extraordinary huge amounts she gets for CS is staggering when, I, a single Mom thirty years ago, who was MARRIED to my first husband for several years never got dime one, nor was the support order of $60 per month enforced. $60 per month! Just $60 per month and my X couldn't even do that for my son...and he was my husband. Not just a momentary roll on the hay.<p>To paraphrase what Jenny said, the pendulum has swung the other way...has gone from the sublime to the ridiculous, and we are left holding the bag...and the amounts are killing us. I, who received NOTHING for my son, has the dishonor of paying for an Opportunistic Whore who really did have an agenda.<p>There are no more Alienation of Affection laws on the books or I would be a prime candidate, but because the OW in my case was so incredibly blatant and knew my situation and just plain didn't care and forged ahead, well, she is going to pay one way or another. I just wish I could afford to pay the attorney the $1500 to get the ball rolling so she could be served this week...(the three year anniversary week of the fling) I'll have to wait a while longer, but it will happen.<p>Bitter? Of course! Blind? Never..I can see the obvious clearly now. The intensity of that bitterness has faded somewhat, and as I evolve and gain more acceptance and a measure of satisfaction through the Personal Injury lawsuit I plan on commencing, this bitterness will lessen with time. It is a process. I am blessed in many ways and have not lost sight of that.<p>We all do what we must to resolve our issues. I do completely understand you and your husband's mind set and if this works for you, then it works for you. With all those children, I can understand your need for CS to relieve your husband of the financial burden. However, I wonder...at what cost?<p>At any rate, I truly wish all the best to you and to your husband and can see that you two are cohesive and on the same page with this, so who are any of us to debate your decision especially when you are so remorseful and filled with regret and determined to make amends to your husband. This may work for you. I will pray that it does.<p>One last thing, FH. Some of our husbands, (the lion's share) were not and are not serial cheaters. In most cases, this was a one time thing, a fluke, a moment of weakness or a complication of illness or just plain rotten self centeredness. But, they got 'caught' because they were selfish and into immediate gratification to assuage their egos or whatever their lame excuse. I know that, We all know that. Now we are left picking up the pieces and working to restore what has been lost. Because we can't let go of the 'good', the history, the memories and our families. The good stuff. <p>The bitterness wouldn't be so bad if the courts had FAIR AND JUST support laws rather than the confiscatory and arbitrary laws that are making our lives, literally, a living hell that make each of us feel as though we are paying for the privilege of the OW screwing our husbands for the next two decades. When our own children go without, when we are forced to adjust our lives dramatically because of them, when we are forced go to extraordinary lengths to protect what little we have left, we do become resentful and bitter. And I don't give one rip about the OC. I know there are many here who have soft hearts and are willing to include the OC into their lives, and I am humbled by their ability to do so, but, it isn't my kid and God did not see fit to bless me with a child of our own, so the horror of all this is compounded.<p>Don't think for a minute my husband does not suffer or is not punished for what he did. Luckily for me, I don't have to do or say much...all he has to do is open his envelope every week and see another $300 garnished from him and go to the mail box to receive another threatening letter from the courts telling him his driver's license is going to be revoked or he is going to jail because of the outrageous $30,000 arrears, or see me struggle to make ends meet or wear clothes that are four years old. It isn't fun to live like this but I don't complain much at all...I save it for here, where it is safe, to vent my anger and frustration here where it is safe to prevent me from torturing my husband further. He is suffering enough...he feels like you do, FH. You know how he feels. You're there. Could your husband punish you more than you are already being punished or punishing yourself? Living with the logical consequences of the behavior and the horrible, horrible fallout, knowing the heartache everyone is living is your fault is enough hell for my husband. Sometimes I wonder how he can live with it as I look into his eyes filled with pain and remorse. It breaks my heart what this has done to BOTH of us. The price is staggering...and I am not talking the money here.<p>I agree the OC is innocent, and should get SOME CS from the noncustodial parent...but, let's make it REASONABLE, FAIR AND JUST. It does NOT cost $1300 per month to raise a two year old kid. Food and clothing for a kid is a couple hundred a month. The OW would have to provide shelter for herself whether she had an OC or not, so that should be her problem, her effort, not ours. And since SHE opted to keep OC, without asking my husband or me what WE thought or considered what this would do to us, then she should shoulder the lion's share of the burden.<p>I would not protest or resent $200-$300 per month. It's a resonalbe amount. It's a fair amount. It is a just amount. And it is all she should get. She was not married to him, she did not even know him but for three weekends. She is getting what is comparable to alimony! It should be a sliding scale according to the commitment of the couple. Marriage of years with history, the largest amount because the wife built the family with her husband, the home, the business, perhaps. An affair of a few weeks or months, minimum only because there was no commitment and questionable motives/agenda.<p>The noncustdial parent should have the option of giving the OC up for adoption to the OW just like the OW has the power to make all the decisions and has the ability to give the OC up for adoption and look like a generous saint doing so...if the NCP wants to do this, he is a cad, a dead beat...oh, puh-leeze! Double standard working here! No wonder there is bitterness. And who suffers? The wife and children of the family of origin. It's evil, corrupt and perverse and somehow, someway, I intend to do something about this before I die...or die trying.<p>OK...I have digressed to death...I'm all fired up and ready to kick some butt and take some names. Someone hose me down!<p>Catnip =^^=<p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: catnip ]</p>

SQQQUUUUIIIIIIRRRRRT!<p>Well catnip, some issues we have with certain people who are not repentant toward us must be resolved between us and God.<p>For example, I have an aunt who physically abused me as a kid. Nothing will ever make what she did right in my mind. No amount of "I'm sorry's" could ever take away the fear ingrained in my early childhood memories. All the questions I have looking back will never be answered to my (MY) satisfaction.<p>OH, we are on speaking terms and yes, my mom explained to me how everyone was very young and they were all struggling together to care for us kids, blah, blah, blah... I understand but it doesn't pay ME back for MY pain.<p>I feel this is the situation with you and OW. She can never make up to you for the pain you suffered. So what to do with all the unresolved parts? The fragments?<p>I suggest that we give them to God and allow Him to make a beautiful tapestry out of them. That is what faith is. Unanswered questions and unresolved issues placed in His hands. You see, her payback for what she did to you is still in your hands and cannot be enforced against her until you release it to God and let HIM handle her. Until then, you are in the way.<p>He knows where she is and HE can get to her at any time any place through anyone. Sometimes God can't get through to a person until we get ourselves out of the way.<p>I hope that makes sense...