CM, are you working on your marriage? Do you have complete honesty with your H? If not, how can you work on your marriage?

You're still communicating with exOM about OC? Aren't you speaking to the wrong person? Shouldn't you be communicating with your H?

Also, if OM is an ex, why are you still talking?

Why are you on MB?

Curiosity got the best of me.

ember

ember,
I would think cmiranda came here because she was unsure of what she wanted to do and came her for support and to learn from others who have dealt with this very sensitive issue.

She is not having an A she has ended that and should be given support for doing so.. I would guess the other issue will be dealt with on the time frame she feels is best for her husband and her child.
doesnt make her bad, just makes her cautious about changing their lives.

My xOM MAN is an ex and we speak almost every day.. what would be your point ? we parent a child together and he is free to call my house every day if he so choses and talk to d or discuss anything with me or my husband.
my husband and I have an agreement on this.. so I would say that isnt a problem.

I would guess she still talks to om because what she does and how she does it is going to effect him and his wife down the road.. just as this stuff effects all those on this site.

I would say cmiranda is entittled to learn from here and gather some skills she may feel will help her marriage and be able to use when and if she tells her husband about all this.

This may suprise you ember but not all ws want to make the other parties involved miserable or set out to hurt them in any way and I would guess she is torn by that.
There are many people in various stages of life on MB , I have seen it on other threads, but what better way to learn. This site would have been a big help to me many times over the last 18 years. AS BS and WS.

Let it go ember and move on.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Having such anger is not helping you, we should be supporting each other.. on making our marriages better and stronger...

How many husband told their wives the first day they were unfaithful... but we still love them dont we..

<small>[ July 26, 2002, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: mom of five ]</small>

I agree with MoF. CM may be doing it in baby steps BUT she is getting on the right track. Not everyone can go at the same pace. She will do it the way she feels she needs to do it. We here can give her support and RESPECTFUL advice and maybe she will gain the courage to tell her H. There are many men throughout this whole forum who would love to have thier wives to be at the point where CM is at now. Affair over, a real willingness to make things right and save the marriage. If you had genuine curiosity about her situation you certainly could have made your post sound a little less like an inquisition.

Ember,

I've said it before and I'll say it again.. when CM is ready to tell her H, she will tell, not when you want her too or anyone else wants her too. She is here learning things and in that process is getting much better prepared for when she does that.

My A ended by my choice shortly after I found out I was pregnant. Yet it wasnt until my daughter was 2.5 that I finally came clean with my husband about the affair and about the possibilities with the paternity. I didnt tell him until after we were seperated for other reasons and I had already filed for divorce. There are lots of reasons why I didnt let the divorce go through, the fact that I still loved him being a huge part of it. But also because I didnt have to carry this secret anymore and because even with him knowing everything, it didnt change how he felt about me or about how he feels about our daughter.

I wasnt aware of MB when I went through all of this. I wish I had been because there is so much I could have learned and I might have told my H the truth long before. I had no support system in place and pretty much thought I was the only person that had ever been in the place that I was at the time.

I was one of the first to tell CM that no, she wasnt alone. I shared with her more details of everything that happened then I have with anyone from this site other then my husband.

CM has learned from being here what the BS spouse goes through when they find out, the different reactions that can occur, and has found out that once she does tell him, it doesnt mean her marriage is going to fall apart either.

CM has the support of my husband and I and from many other people on this site. I dont understand why it ends up with her having to be the target of so many peoples anger at times but I've seen happen time and again and I truly think it's unfair.

I'm was a BS once, but I am a WS too... I guess I dont recieve the same anger since I have told my H everything.

The bottom line is, CM is here for the right reasons and is learning a lot of things. If your not going to try to help support in her in what shes doing and will be doing, then leave her alone. Remember that old saying from a Disney movie... If you cant say something nice.. then dont say anything at all....

Just my 2 cents....

"My xOM MAN is an ex and we speak almost every day.. what would be your point ? we parent a child together and he is free to call my house every day if he so choses and talk to d or discuss anything with me or my husband.
my husband and I have an agreement on this.. so I would say that isnt a problem. "

Mof5 This is the hardest part of my recovery, the daily conversations regarding oc. But at least you have an agreement with your H concerning this. My H has gone against my wishes and sees no problem what so ever with the daily updates, but then I do have the constant threat that OW is Single and has no one to account to. What I had agreed to with H was to co-parent, which was explained to me as almost a business arrangement, no communication except major issues. OW was to make all decisions, yet she feels its important to fill him in on every thing, and h is happy with that arrangement, so I am left out and feel like the third party.
Tina

I didnt mention his wife calls or emails me every day as well, and while not ideal, it was the agreement the four of us made... sometimes when he calls he just talks to husband , sometimes just to d.

I am not leaving my husband if I were going to I guess I would have gone ahead and divorced when we filed before, but we didnt.. so I figure there must be something left for me to not go through it.

I dont know exactly how he and his wife handle it... I am sure at times it causes problems but I can not involve myself in their marital problems..it is none of my business. she and I have had words before, and I refer her to her husband... Because I dont want to fight, and yes every once in a while, I get mad and reply back with my thoughts.. then we both think about it and decide that is not what is best, so we put it behind us..
I was ok with not informing them of every thing, but then I got jumped on, he wants to know how she sleeps at night,, if she has any needs,they want to know if she learnes a new word or sentence..His wife sends an e card every day from her to my d... she uses icq and ask me questions about d.. Believe me, my plan did not involve so much communication and yes, I do see where it can and does cause problems.. But that is where I am glad my husband is more involved with this, keeps things in perspective... for me and om.. But your concern is a valid one, It concerns me as well in our lives... I wish we all had a magic answer.. but I dont think there is one.. I can tell yu over the last few months, I have wished he didnt have contact and I could move on with my life..

Ember,
In my line of work, I follow trends and patterns to help me deceifer the less than obvious. Here, I see the pattern is true to form. Whenever I voice an opinion that a certain member doesn't agree with, suddenly, a post is created entitled 'cmiranda'... always by someone who didn't engage in the recent heated debate.
Almost funny but not quite laughing.

This post strikes me as one where I should sit down, order a coffee, even a smoke, and have my attorney present. And you never even read me my miranda rights. Okay now I'm smiling.

Mom0f5, WIB, and Ann have said everthing that I feel and have expressed their support of me here over and over. I am grateful to them beyond words. Until I met them, I did think I was the only person on earth with the mixed up emotions I felt for so long.

Unlike the BS, the WS is rarely as quick to want 'results'. Its the nature of these things. I'm not moving quickly enough to the "iceing on the cake" for some of you. I can sense your urgency. Its really not about me, at least that is my belief in regards to your post to me.

I shouldn't even bother to respond really. The others have empathize with my situation so well because they have been where I am now. You have not and for your lack of understanding, I do not fault you. I don't expect you to understand any better after I write a few thoughts down here either.

They understand how I came to this site and why I am undecided about how to proceed with my life and my M. The anger that so many of you express not only toward the ow, but particularly the oc, scares me. It repulses me more than anything. It has given om and I something to discuss that otherwise never would have been a thought. It gives me some insight and also the knowledge that it does not have to be so either. There is hope and I have not lost sight of that. We can come out of this with mutual satisfaction considering.

When I found this site, by accident, I had not ended my A, I had not made a decision to continue my M, and I was caught between whether om and I would try and risk it all for a life together. I found the site and left it the next day, without posting. I was searching outside of me for answers that only I could make. I progressed in my decisions to a point where I decided that my M would be worth trying to salvage, IF it could be. I came back here, to mb. I am not fully recovered from breaking away from om. I may have chose to leave, but it hurts nonetheless. I am not and never have been one to jump into making decisions. It takes me a long time and I have to feel very ready before I move on anything, particularily something this life altering. I am known for dragging my feet on big decisions. It is just who I am and will always be. I will not apologize to you for that.
My H and I have had several mc sessions and we have begun to open up to eachother but it will be a long road for us. I never served the papers, but in my heart and in my head, I felt divorced from him. Indifferent is what I was.
I'm here for the same reasons that you are. I don't agree with some of the hardline opinions and insults that get splattered around here. That is no surprise to anyone I'm sure. Just because I don't take the insults and hypocracy does not mean that I have dismissed all of the MB principals. I am applying what works for me, just as many others are.
I ended my A, that was thus far, the hardest thing I have ever had to do in my life. It has been the single most painful loss I have ever felt because he is not gone from this world.
I am in contact with him because as Momof5 said, my choices affect him and his family. So yes there is limited contact still. Before I found this site and ever heard of nc, he and I agreed that we'd forever be involved in eachothers lives. I don't know if that can happen now, but do not expect me or many of the WS with children of OP, to simply turn and walk away over night. I see it as a process, not an event. I love him enough to want him to be happy. I am still taking to him and running ideas off him because his and his families lives will also change, I already took the choices away from both men, I will not make that mistake again. See, I didn't give om a choice about being a father to this child either. I was wrong and I openly admit it to all of you.
Should I be communicating with my H? Of course except my H and I didn't really communicate for years. We are working on this but it doesn't turn around over night. My expectations are in line with the kind of personality my H has.

I love my H enough not to have found this site one day and spew out the truth to make myself feel better , the next. I do feel guilt but I can't act to relieve my guilt alone. It is not about just me. My H does not feel that he wants to know all of the reasons why I stayed with him. He has said he doesn't know how or why I did stay when he was actively drinking. He also said he doesn't want the answer. So maybe he does know or suspect and chooses to close his eyes to it. I do not know yet. This chapter hasn't unfolded yet. We are working on growing together and bridging the gap that was so very wide between us. We are in agreement with that. That is our first step as a couple. My first step as an individual, was to stop the A. My M is better than it has been in a very long time. Radical honesty doesn't just fall from the sky one day. In my life, it is progressive. He is not willing to hear much negativity from me at this point. He wants to think there is hope for us, and because there is hope, I will not force issues he is not ready to deal with.
Well that is all I have to offer at this time, I hope it clears up your curiosity for now.

<small>[ July 27, 2002, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: CMiranda ]</small>

CM...

Praying that you continue down the road to finding what works for you. It's a tough road to hoe regardless....

I'm sure you still have some of the grieving process that you have to go through, as cutting off any type of emotional tie is hard, if not downright difficult.

I wish you strength to do what you have to/want to do.

Hugs and prayers,
Twiisty

CMiranda,

I do empathise with your opinions involving revealing all about your A. I too have struggled with this. I did want to ask if you have considered the child. I believe your husband is the primary care giver. How will he react when he eventually finds out? Will he abandon this child? How much will that hurt the child? Will you ever tell the child the truth? If so, will this child turn on you?

Just some thoughts. It took me months to tell the whole truth.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CMiranda:
<strong>Ember,
He is not willing to hear much negativity from me at this point. He wants to think there is hope for us, and because there is hope, I will not force issues he is not ready to deal with.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CM, I think you made a well thought out reasoned response to what certainly looked like an attack. Good for you for keeping your cool.

The way that this is disclosed certainly needs a great deal of consideration. As long as you are moving toward full disclosure sometime in the near future I think you are going in the right direction. (but remember that a deathbed confession doesn't count as the near future. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

However, and I know this is just my opinion, you owe very little to your exOM. I find it upsetting to hear that you still love him enough to want to make sure that he is happy. You don't have to hate him, but it is not your responsibility nor your place to fill any of his emotional needs. If you are recommitting to your marriage, that is not your job. Until you institute "no contact" you will not allow yourself to become emotionally free of him, your feelings of love will not fade sufficiently and you will not put your full attention where it belongs.

My H left the emotional part of his affair very slowly and it was sheer hell for me. To know that he was on the phone with her, listening to her cry about losing her "best friend" was almost more than I could tolerate. It was at least as big a slap in the face as his affair and child. To know that he could look at me, see the damage he was directly responsible for and that in the face of that huge hurt and suffering, he was still trying to "be there for her" was such an affront that I don't have words for it. It made me angry enough to want him dead, something that the affair itself was unable to do. She was a big girl; she knowingly put herself in harm's way. She did the crime; it was now time to do the time. (As did he. His "time" was restoring his marriage; hers was being a single mother without a married "best friend" of the opposite sex.)

No one in a marriage has the responsibility for ensuring the happiness of anyone but their spouse and their children. We don't even owe that to our parents. Marriage isn't wide enough to allow for those types of feelings for another.

I know that I have said in a previous post that I understand that he may have some warm feelings left for her. I draw the line at having them and doing something about them. I still care for a couple of ex (pre-marriage) lovers. If I gave my time to them, I am cheating my marriage of my full attention and in my opinion, so are you.

Any agreement you made with your exOM is null and void as far as I am concerned. Your H will need what the Harleys call extraordinary precautions in order for him to feel safe again. Yes, I know that my H and exOW have some contact, but I know that for the rest of my life, I will feel like I have settled for less than I deserve because of that contact. I tolerate it because we try to work out what is best for Precious, but I think that Precious could be taken care of w/out direct contact between the two of them. There are other people willing and able to convey information between them regarding Precious.

From what you wrote, it truly doesn't seem that you and exOM are taking care of your child; it seems like you are still emotionally taking care of each other and that is wrong. It is a violation of your marriage. Mr. J now sees this and not because I hammered it home; it is something that has crept up on him. He has come to realize on his own how badly he treated me after D-day and how his failure to quickly disentangle himself from the mistakes he made hurt our chances of recovery.

(I even deleted the part where I call exOW names so that this would be more palitable. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Offered in love and kindness,
MJ

CJ,

From the day I discovered I was pregnant, I could only consider my child. I wanted to give him the world and the very best life I was capable of giving to him.
I honestly thought that I made the right choice at the time for my child. I didn't do what I necessarily wanted to do in my heart. I acted in what I thought were my child's best interests.
My h and I share parenting responsibilities fairly equally yet it would be absolutely devestating to my son if he abandoned him. I honestly don't foresee my H doing that. I think that my H and I would overcome the truth of my child's biology somehow, in time. If we had a solid foundation to build on. He has no family of his own really, suffers from his own abandonment issues, and is extremely close to my family.
I have nightmares of facing a lifetime of witholding the truth from my son. Yet, I have nightmares of telling my son the truth. Even after H is told, I am not completely convinced that we would reveal truth to our son. I don't know if it is truly in his best interest. I want to give him a normal, balanced life. I'd rather eat mud every one of my days if it means I can give him that. I want to protect him and there are days when I feel I have to protect him from om even though he has been nothing but kind and caring toward son. He was toward me too, and inspite of that, the pain his presence in my life has caused me is really beyond words. I don't have the answers and my struggle right now is thatI'm in a neutral zone. It feels safe and my son is happy. I have time to think and to breath again after many years of being on a rollercoaster. I will always consider my son first and pray that I make the right choices by him.
What is your truth and how did you reveal it? Can you share more about you?

<small>[ July 29, 2002, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: CMiranda ]</small>

MJ,

I appreciate your sharing your feelings with me. I put myself in your H shoes and my H in yours and it has given me a very good perspective. I will be thinking about your post long after today. You are right, it continues to be a love square of sorts. All of us are still intertwined even though the A is over.
I have no idea, I mean absolutely no idea, of how I'd reveal this. I've gone over and over the words and some days they sound good. Other days they sound hallow. Even to me, who owns all these mixed up feelings, they loose their meaning when I get to the part about having an A that lasted for so long and where we conceived a child together.
I know in my head that you are right. I don't owe him anything except to treat him with dignity and respect. Yet, becasue of our history, in my heart, I can not take and integrate that philosophy into my actions. Our contact has been less over the last several months and I do feel different. I am changing. I am hoping that I am in transistion of sorts and that I will again feel love for only one man, my husband. I pray for that to happen. Yet, it still evades me today. I do want to be emotionally free from him and the fact that I am not hurts me. NC is a struggle as we had daily contact for years and years, and so I adopted very Limited contact, for now. It is helping me get to where I need to be for today without being completely depressed and angry all the time. Contact being conversation only.
I don't feel that I need to make sure he is happy. I do recognize that he alone is responsible for that. Yet, when I know he is unhappy and I'm related to that unhappiness, I feel guilty. Very guilty. I do not want to be the cause of anymore unhappiness to anyone in my life. I dont' see how to stop it though, I seem to be a source of emotional turmoil. I feel very responsible to everyone and for everyone's life in this "square".
I wanted the emotional part to be over with before I entertained telling my H for the reasons that you described. I don't want him to witness what you did. I want to protect him when I can. Him seeing my emotional dependency on om is just what you say, a very big slap in the face that no one deserves. It is part of the mourning process more than anything. Not for what is lost today, but for what was long ago, before all the pain, back when things were still innocent between us. When we really were just friends.
I hear what you are saying about being responsible for only your kids and spouse. I still do. I'm working on that. As each day passes having been out of the A, I feel less and less like I have to make emotional restitution to him. I did hurt him tremendously by leaving him out of the decision making process and telling him that I chose H as my child's father. Now I am telling him that I have changed my mind, after 2 years about revealing it all. He is not angry with me and is trying to understand and support me. How can I turn my back on someone who can forgive me this? I do not want to slight my H and I want to be loyal to him while treating om with the respect he has always shown to me. It is not out of lack of loyality to my H that I feel this yet I know that is exactly how he will perceive it. Just as you say you feel you settled for less than you deserve. Those are powerful words and they really struck me.
I was all set to defend myself but I think that you could be right. I never thought of it that way. Om and i could be emotionally taking care of eachother still, in some strange way. Maybe because we hold the secret together and other than coming here to post, he is the only other human being I talk to about any of this. I felt that I had taken care of my child and it is om and I who are in need of repair. I never realized that consciously until you brought that to my attention. How did Mr J begin to break this cycle on his own?
Fondly,
CM

<small>[ July 29, 2002, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: CMiranda ]</small>

CM,
Bet you didn't expect to hear from your nemsis in MB... but here I am.
Two things you've said in your posts on this thread struck me as finding you as human as me.

I will not tell you now, perhaps you can ask Xarelel for my e-mail and I'll tell you.

Please listen to what MJ has said.
Each day you wait to tell the truth is a day lost to recovery.
For you and your H.

There is no easy way, one day , an ordinary blustery ,winter, November day my H suddenly came home from work and called for me to come to the kitchen.

The look on his face frightened me beyond what words can tell.

He blurted out he was seeing "OW" and that it had ended that summer but there was more...then told me of oc.

It will hit your H like a freight train even if deep within he's aware of something.

Perhaps he's pushed the "fear" of something amiss deep down inside since you two have been getting along.

Let me tell you he will not have a change of heart toward your son. He's known him as his own so far.

He will not abandon him.

Leave him space to absorb all of what has happened.

Be prepared to face a long ride of confusion.

Help him in any way you can.

You now are equiped with the knowledge of the pain this will produce.

Please do not be afraid. Tell the truth,CM.

We'll all be here to help you.

Leave OM out of ANY decisions or discussions for your marriage's sake! PLEASE!!!

Leave him alone completely.
It's your h's turn to make calls about things. Don't render him helpless by calling OM privately.

Stand together after the shock wears off.

Offer him things and ways to make it better via/counseling w/Harleys, time alone, whatever he needs.
You sound like you have compassion for your H.

Please think about what has been said tonight.

I'll pray for you.
Debi

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CMiranda:
<strong>CJ,

I have nightmares of facing a lifetime of witholding the truth from my son. Yet, I have nightmares of telling my son the truth. Even after H is told, I am not completely convinced that we would reveal truth to our son. I don't know if it is truly in his best interest. I want to give him a normal, balanced life. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I thought I would take just this one point and try and respond. I am pretty sure that most people here know that I am not just a wife affected by her husband's infidelity, I am also the child born of an affair. My parents did not tell me the truth until I was 35-years-old and our family had to go through genetic testing for a medical condition that I had.

I love both my parents very much and I grew up feeling very loved by both of them, especially my father. But I also knew that there was something about me that made my mother very nervous, much more nervous than she was with my sisters. I was the fragile one, the one to be protected. My sisters perceived this as being the "favorite" and resented it.

When I finally learned the truth I asked my mother what she saw when she looked at me. Did she see me or did she see her ex-lover? Was I a real person to her or a representation of what she couldn't have.

On the day my wedding pictures came back (I was 22) I had the shock of my life. I realized for the first time in my life that I don't look at all like my father nor my sisters. My mother says I look like my birth father.

I can promise you that the life you are giving your son right now is not the perfectly normal life you would like to think that you are providing. Deep dark secrets like this have repercussions in the family; they disturb the appropriate balance of power. When a parent holds something like this secret, IMO, they are robbing the child of the basic fundamental truths of their lives. They tell them, in effect, you are not capable enough to deal with difficult and upsetting information. We want our children to grow to be stong and capable people who can deal with whatever life throws at them, can think for themselves and resist peer pressure to do dangerous and stupid things. Keeping secrets about them does exactly the opposite. It tells them "I will think for you. Even when you are an adult, I will still do your thinking for you. I will decide which basic facts about your life you should know and which ones I deem to be too difficult." Compare it to the old way of adopting. Parents usually adopted infants and seldom told them they were adopted. We now know how wrong that attitude was.

I also read on a web site for parents who have children with cancer something to the effect "As much as we love our children, we cannot shelter them from their pain. All we can do is help them develop the skills for handling it."

By the very fact of his conception your son has something extra to deal with that many other children don't. Lying about it doesn't change the fact, it just changes the way it will be expressed and dealt with in the family. The definition of a dysfunctional family is one that hides from their pain--no matter what intoxicant/avoidance technique they choose--drugs, alcohol, too much food, too much TV, affairs or lies. My shrink said one time "There is absolutely nothing wrong with sweeping things under the carpet, unless you want your family to stop tripping and falling down over things that they can't see, but can't avoid."

I strongly recommend Bradshaw's book on family secrets. I think he is spot on correct.

One other brief thought is that this information usually comes out one way or another. Does he learn it from the people who love him most or does he learn this at 50-years-old when you are gone and he can't even confront you about this and come to some resolution?

Again, just my thoughts and perspective as someone who has lived this.

MJ

<small>[ July 30, 2002, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: MaryJanes ]</small>

CMiranda,

I'm big on the rule of honesty, so I really think you need to tell your husband---sooner is better than later. There are lots of reasons for this, but it basically boils down to repairing the marriage and giving you an accountability partner so that this affair will end (and yeah---I think although it's died down somewhat, you're still emotionally involved). As you say, you only want to love one man. You're going to have to jump off the fence to your husband and hope that he catches you. Right now you're waitin' on that fence, hoping that someone will build you an elevator to get you down gently.

Another thing that I think would help you tremendously would be to start counseling with Steve Harley. He's really terrific and very easy to talk with, and I think you'd find it well worth the investment in your marriage to give him a try. My impression of your situation is that you're pretty much open to getting your marriage back on track. Steve is a terrific motivator and coach, and he'd also be a great point person for your husband when you eventually get the truth out to him.

Hang in there---you're really close!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CMiranda:
<strong>MJ,


He is not angry with me and is trying to understand and support me. How can I turn my back on someone who can forgive me this? </strong> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You do this by returning exOM to his rightful place--outside of your marriage. He didn't beling this tied up in your life. You do it by placing your H first, where he belonged.

Just as you say you feel you settled for less than you deserve. Those are powerful words and they really struck me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I felt that I had taken care of my child and it is om and I who are in need of repair. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is mostly your child, your H and exOM's wife who are most in need of repair. I am certain that you are experiencing pain over the loss of this relationship, but I promise you that your pain will look very small indeed when you witness your H's pain. I am sorry; I wish that there were someway to get to an honest marriage w/o passing through this pain but if you believe that your H deserves the same human dignity we all do you are going to have to tell him. It is his right to know the truth about his marriage to you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I never realized that consciously until you brought that to my attention. How did Mr J begin to break this cycle on his own?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not sure that he did break it on his own. I think he broke it with my help and the help of our marriage counselor. I don't mean to make it sound like it was a peaceful leave-taking because it was not. I made it very clear that disentangling himself from being her emotional support was a condition of our ongoing marriage. I was not going to remain in an emotional triangle. (I got most, but not all of what I wanted. They do talk sometimes w/o me about their child, but they don't sob at each other about what they have lost.) It wasn't a quiet process. I screamed and cried, I made my boundaries quite clear, but mostly I took the phone bills, highlighted his calls to her and took them to our marriage counseling sessions. I let our marriage counselor remind him of the consequences of his continuing behavior. exOW screamed and cried and threatened also. In fact, she behaved with far less dignity than I did. She called him names and ran him down in the process. After a while I let her go on in this manner as I know recognized that behavior as "Love Busters." I kept thinking "You go right ahead and act that way. You are reminding him why he is here and not with you."

MJ

CMiranda,

I wrote a letter to my wife to reveal the extent and reasons for my infidelity. I have been with many other women. I didn't count them and I don't know all of their names.

We have 5 children together and our sex life had gone to zero. So rather than fight that I just started going out an picking up women. It seemed like a good solution at the time.

We are trying to work out these issues now.

The letter was a good way to get my whole story across. It was a complete recounting with reasons and I didn't forget to say anything important. The scary part was I also didn't get to test the waters as I went.

Jack