((( CMiranda )))

You are our sister ... and we could never hate you.
(You might piss us off now and then ... but not be an object of hate)

We want your happiness, that's for sure. Long term happiness comes from deep within our best parts ... our goodness.

Embrace your-good-self CM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ August 23, 2002, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Wow - I too am truly moved by your post CMiranda...you're true colors are shining through...and they're beautiful...like a rainbow...

I, too, Catnip, have to digest all that for a bit.

thank you Twissty, it means alot coming from you.

I like you PepperB. You have a way about you that allows me to feel hope. Even when I hate me because I know that I've been an escape artist for far too long. I do know that I am lacking something deep within me. I have yet to figure out what it is but I am looking. I truly hope that it is not genuine goodness.
I'm grateful that you shared your ideals with me.

JL,

He has been sober for almost 7 years now. We will be married for 10 years this fall. If I could change anything, it would have been not to have married him while he was in the height of his illness. Not to say I wouldn't have married him but that was not the right time.
His drinking isn't an obvious issue now, but alcoholism is insidious whereby it damages every facet of the person. Physically, emotionally, spiritually.. He is not healed in that regard. He and I have issues with communication still as well as resentments. Those are left over from his drinking. I have alot of them buried somewhere.
We were driving one day and we passed a club that he belonged to. My son pointed and smiled and wanted to know what that place was as we passed it. I made a comment about how when Daddy was young, used to spend more time there than at home. I had gotten the sentence out before I even realized what I was saying. He commented back that it's been nearly 7 years, am I still holding that against him?
I didn't say anything, but in my heart I thought, apparantly so...
The drinking issues are on the agenda. We need to choose a MC who has experience with substance abusers and cheaters. I did read an alanon book that explained the progression of alcoholism along side that was the progression of the co-dependent/enabler. At the midway point was "have affair". I thought at the time, no way, not me.
I know there are issues I haven't dealt with regarding his alcoholism and my role in it and the abuse I endured, both emotional and physical.

I soppose I have a plan. It is to reconnect before revealing the A. It is to try and forgive him for hurting me. So we don't have 2 pissed off people in the M at once. I've been officially out of A for 5 months, having spent the first 60 days in serious withdrawl and on again off again depression. I absolutely did not want to allow my H to know that I was love sick for om. That seemed cruel beyond words. I read of other bs who also had difficulty with witnessing the w/d. I know that some say D will push the w/d away but I was very fearful that it would not in my case. I may be wrong but it was a risk I wasn't willing to take. I felt I needed to grieve on my own.
I am not completely through w/d but it is not a daily thing anymore. Somedays it is an issue, mostly I feel angry and frustrated; at myself or OM, while others I am happy to be free of it. I miss what we had but I don't miss what we had.

I'm getting it together as each day passes I do feel as though I'm making progress. I'd like to forgive OM and my H both as well as myself. That is my personal goal along with being forgiven. Maybe thats too much to wish for.
We've been talking more and have agreed to talk to another professional.

CM

CM,

I finally had a moment to actually sit down and read your whole post from earlier today. I just wanted to say that you are heading in the right direction, and that I can also understand the fleeting feelings of suicide! Now, my A didn't last as long(only 6 mos in comparison to your 6.5 yrs) but when what feels good or right at the time, compared to what you know to be right clash in you mind, it is a very difficult thing to sort out! Your heart and body are telling you one thing, and the mind and soul are telling you another. There were many times during my A that I felt everyone would be better off w/out me in the picture! Of course, that's as far as it ever went, but I'm just saying that I can understand that type of desparation.

I am so happy to see that even though you are still in pain over your R w/xOM, you are willing and trying to make things right w/your H! Get reconnected, and keep that connection clear of static, at least from your own end! The next big step is getting this out in the open between the two of you. I know that you need to do it on your own time, but I still feel it needs to be done soon! That way, you will be off the "on ramp" to recovery, and you can merge over to the fast lane, and build up your M to where it should have been from the start.

I hope that I sound on here the way it sounded in my mind. If not, I'm sorry, but that's the best I can do at the moment. I am happy to see some movement from your side, and look forward to seeing more!

Love,

Tigger

[QUOTE]Originally posted by catnip:

Is it obvious, physically, to you or to others that this child resembles your MM? Or does he take more after you, which would make it easier for you to delay discovery?
Just one more thing I forgot to mention having gotten so wrapped up in my reply to you Catnip.

This is one of the hardest things to deal with. My son looks exactly like OM, with the exception that he has my eye color. The rest is OM. He actually looks like his mother and one of his brothers as well. Its eery almost.
I was playing with him the other day, and noticed he makes the same facial expressions. He has his personality to boot. While that is good for him, it can be bittersweet for me.
Some people say he looks like my H. When that happens, I feel like an @sshole. Someone else commented who doesn't know us very well, but knows a friend of ours, if he was either of ours as he doesn't look like either of us.
I told that to om when I had a meltdown over it and he told me to ignore idiots like that. He has a sister whose youngest son looks nothing like either of them either. Then he got all teary and I thought, they aren't the loser, I am for having lied in the first place.

<small>[ August 23, 2002, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: CMiranda ]</small>

Dear CM,
I have seen in you something I have been waiting to see for a long time.

You love your h, in spite of the A, more than om!

Horray!

Now you see what bs are all saying, no one can take the place of your true love, no one.

You have apparently been trying to attain that through the man you first fell in love with, all along he didn't hear you.

I pray he hears you now.

I pray when you are honest with him, he will see the ways he failed you and begin to see you for the woman who, in spite of the affair, CHOSE HIM.

CM, I am feeling that you are a woman who was used and yet you stll loved,,,the same as bs, or ANY woman or man who has wished for love and acceptance.

May the peace of our Lord guide and free you from all pain.

love
Debi

I will pray for your peace.....

<small>[ August 23, 2002, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: gemini1 ]</small>

Way to go, CM!!!! You're doing great and it's such a blessing to watch the transformation (yours and Catnip's!)

My counselor told me that until my H was able to see the pain and suffering he had caused all parties (me, our children, the OW, the OC)he wouldn't be able to truly recover, he would only keep avoiding conflict. He's making baby steps in that direction, and I think you're taking some giant ones! It gives me real hope for him too!

Keep working at it, C Miranda and God will continue to bless you in miraculous ways! You are precious and He will lead you there!

Dear Cmiranda,

I feel honored and privileged to be here and witness your rebirth. It is my pleasure to know you, because, I do know you and understand you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CMiranda:
<strong>Catnip,

It sure did hurt me to write that post, maybe out of my pride or maybe out my guilt, I don't know, all I know is that it hurt but it felt good to say how I really felt as I thought it was that kind of post that would make people here hate me.

That's the kind of honesty that makes us/me love you. With that kind of openness, there is the opportunity for real recovery. We will be here every step of the way for you. I know it hurt, CM. You have been so encased in your protective armour, that exposing yourself to the sunlight is uncomfortable and it hurts, too. And it is scary. But, it was so good for your soul to do it.

I do believe that you want my situation to turn around for the best.

You have no idea.

I have no trouble believing you.

I know. I think we both know what's in our hearts.

Somehow you and I have developed a love/hate relationship. One minute I want roll around in a ball as 2 cats fighting do, and the next, I want to rub noses with you. We seem to stir eachother up somehow.

This has not been a bad thing, CM. In fact, it has been good for both of us. You have been a worthy opponent and I have enjoyed sparring with you. But, now it is time to redirect ourselves toward your recovery. Hey. I admit it...it's been fun for me. But, I want your peace and recovery, CM. I really cannot stand to see you suffering like this anymore.

I am sorry if I have ever hurt your feelings. It truly was not my intent. My intent was to shake you out of denial and get you mad enough to begin the process.

Maybe because we are more alike than not in personality.

Ya think?

I really identified with GIT (formerly wib) post about how her H didn't leave her physically, but somehow emotionally he dropped out. That is my fear because that seems to be a pattern my H has.

Sometimes that is called passive-aggressive behavior and from what I understand, these people will intentionally withdraw themselves from our presence emotionally, leaving us to feel alone and isolated from their lives. Sometimes it is meant to punish and other times it is simply too frightening to get that close to another perosn so putting distance between themselves and their spouse seems safer, albeit much lonlier.

My X husband was passive aggressive and he would set me up. He would say something or do something, quietly and calmly, pushing my buttons. I would become hysterical and he would look mature and pulled together while I looked crazy, wild and loose credibility when in reality, he is the one who did this. This is why Al-Anon is so amazing. It teaches you to detach with love and not buy into their insanity and manipulations and to focus on taking care of yourself without loosing sight of them, just loving them and attract them by example.

That is probably my biggest fear of all. I fear he will stay because he is comfortable

And because you are fascinating.

but apathy and indifference are so much worse than being divorced I feel.

Don't jump ship at the first assumption of apathy, because you could be wrong. Maybe it is just emotional exhaustion. Give yourselves time to heal. You have to have time to go through the stages and everyone's reaction to these thigns are different than may expect. Time, CM...time. You'll know instinctively in your heart if it is real apathy or the convenience, or if you are just recovering from trauma or exhausted.

I know I'm not jumping to tell him, but I truly am working to change. I am working to improve my relationship with him.

I believe this.

Maybe I am being unfair in that I want to make things better before I turn and make them worse again, but I do feel the need to have something good again rather than add more destruction

I understand. How do things seem to be progressing? Do you think you are getting close?

I do believe he really means, sweep it all under the carpet and pretend we never had a bad day in our M.

He is acting out of fear then, CM. You have a plan to incorporate a counselor, right?

Thank you for your supportive post to me. I know it is not easy to understand me.

Thank you for your candor and your honesty and for trusting us enough to allow us in. I hope you see the method behind our madness and know our intentions were pure. You were and probably remain to be an incredible challenge, but regardless, at least you know we love and understand you.

Mo5 was right in that for today, you all are all I've got since you are the only ones I can turn to right now, other than to OM. He can be tempting to me

And we aren't going anywhere. I know we all understand the pull to OM but we know you are strong enough to resist. If nothing else, MB spoils affairs for WS's in the sense that once you've attained all this knowledge, nothing is the same again. Kind of like when you quit smoking.

I truly hope I'm not ruining this board for others.

You've enhanced it...even back in April when you came here igniting the TNT. You are a trip, CM, and I for one have thoroughly enjoyed it all.

CM</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am so proud of you. You are so brave.

Love

Catnip =^^=

Dear CMiranda,

You have a long road ahead of you, but from your past, you have already survived more than most have to bear. I see in you fear, perhaps that what you are trying to build with your H will slip away if you confront him with the truth. And, you would be left alone again with no one to lean on.

But, at the same time, there also lives in you incredible strength and, more importantly, determination. It is no small accomplishment to let go of a long-term loving relationship with the ex-OM. Right or wrong, he was there for you and you must now feel very vulnerable. Like living in a half-way house, you have left one life but are not quite in your new life.

I have learned many things since my H's A. But the two that are most important are support and communication. Affairs happen for many different reasons. In my H's case he had feelings he did not know how to communicate to me and made bad choices because of those feelings.

During your H's illness because of alcohol, you obviously did not receive the support you needed in your marriage. The alcoholism made you both unable to communicate with each other. And in that weakened condition, it was very easy for you to turn to the ex-OM. You are simply human, CM. A woman with a heavy emotional burden to bear who made choices based on the feelings she was experiencing at the time.

Isn't it amazing that the birth of your son is what made you see your H more clearly? Such a bittersweet awakening, sharing a child and watching your H start changing into the man you want him to be, while all the time you see the ex-OM in your son. I really feel for you -- that must be, at times, excruciating for you to keep this to yourself.

I hope that you keep building confidence in your H and your marriage. After so many years with the ex-OM, and the complete loss of confidence in and communication with your H, it will take some time to create the conditions in your marriage that will allow you be honest. I also imagine that your H relapsing to alcohol is also a major concern at this time.

Please read the MB principles -- they truly work. They saved many marriages on this board, starting with my own. And most of all know one thing, we are all here to support you. You are a complicated person, CM. I can see that you have needed to wrap yourself in armor throughout your life just to survive it all. I have never been combative with anyone on this site and it puzzled me that regardless of what I wrote you would tear it apart. But everyone deals with their pain in different ways. I am just glad that you are getting something out of this site, although I hope now you will get a lot more.

CM, I sincerely apologize for anything that I have said which offended you. I have my own problems that, perhaps, made me sensitive. This site is very special to me and it made me sad to see it changing in such a negative way. But change is sometimes necessary and good.

Well, starting with this post, MB just changed and for the better. Welcome to the board, CM. In all these months, I don't think I ever got the opportunity to say that to you. We are here for you, we understand more than you know, and we are willing to share all that we have survived and learned with you.

My prayers are with you and your H,
love,
heavenly

CMiranda:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We need to choose a MC who has experience with substance abusers and cheaters.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Before Bill Harley turned to marriage counseling, he was specializing in chemical addiction recovery (hence his slant about the 'addictive' nature of affairs). I'd really like you to consider giving the MB office a call (888-639-1639) and make an appointment with Steve, to see if he feels he could help you with a plan to recover the marriage. If you check out the boards (EN, GQII), you'll see a lot of new 'clients' raving about how good the counseling is. And the old-time clients like me feel the same way (so it's not just an infatuation period).

I don't get a cut from his fees. But I hate to see people suffering on their own, when this service is available.

God bless.

Although my husband is not an alcoholic, and I did not have OC from my affair, my first affair did last a long time. Nearly 7 years OFF and on with an adult child of an alcoholic. I had a second affair because I was in such withdrawal from the first. (It didn't work. Don't try it.)

I do want to say that I think you are doing great. There is hope. I have recovered and you can too! I could never have done it with my wise counselor.

Good bless and keep up this deep soul work. You are doing fabulous.

Heavenly,

Thank you for the welcome, I appreicate it more than I can say.
I am amazed at the insight that you and others have about me; it really is empathy that allows you to see in me what I haven't even shared yet.
I do want to apologize to you too for things I said that were hurtful or insensitive. I am sorry for that.
The biggest lesson I have learned this past week is empathy and our capacity as human beings to find it within ourselves. You all have shared an enormous amount of empathy and understanding with me even though you have been so hurt by your situations.
All these years, I walked around feeling sorry for myself and taking on an attitude of running over anyone who got in my path toward what I thought was true happiness. I felt like a victim of circumstace and ran with that, right into a brick wall of course.
I am looking forward to getting to know you better. I do plan on using many of the MB tools for recovery. I have alot to learn and practice in the coming months. Thank you for opening up to me.

Fondly,
CM

catnip is right--my own mom had THREE consecutive marriages that did not last 6.5 years!!! catnip was telling the gospel truth...

Well CM, I'm glad to see you opening up and letting others see inside of you... You didn't have to do that... I'm shocked, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> but glad that you did. I hate knowing that you are crying in the shower. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But God is with you and He will help you through all of this. One step at a time.

I was just wondering something related to your H's alcohol abuse--do you feel like you were entitled to have the affair since your H was so detached from you due to alcohol? I mean, is this how you first reasoned that it would be okay to maintain the friendship with OM and let it progress?

One day your son might start wondering why he doesn't look more like your H too!!! I'm wondering if at some point he will need to know as well???

<small>[ August 26, 2002, 02:54 AM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>