Yesterday evening I felt really kinda of down. I thought alot about AmLo's post and not because of how it parallel's my own life, but how touched I was that he is willing to do EVERYTHING to show his W he still wanted his M. Right now - my H is not there yet. He's been very withdrawn, I can't stand that he doesn't look at me with the love he used to have, and lastly I can't stand feeling like I'm second best. I'm an Aries to the truest sense of the word, strong temper, stubborn, and most important - I have to feel like I am above any and everything. And right now, I don't feel that way. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I wanted to show my H AmLo's post to see what he would have to say, but never got a chance to do so. I had this sneaky suspiscion that H is not being honest & is still in contact with OW. I asked him about it this am and of course he didn't confirm it, nor did he deny it. But that's ok, because he didn't need to - his cell phone record shows it all. I didn't even bother to tell him that I knew he was still seeing her because of his cell phone log, instead I told him I knew he had to be because he was very withdrawn with me & doesn't even act like he really loves me. His response - well - you wanted me back here, does it matter? Like he's doing ME some huge favor in being there.

All I want is for my H to say - I'm sorry for the pain I caused & if I have to spend the rest of my life making it up to you I will. And to prove it let me show you. Then he would proceed to do all the things he did when we dated & were 1st married. What's so hard about that? Now, I'm po'd & feel like calling the OW up to say - please, please take you & your child & go away. If he didn't want this marriage, he'd be gone by now, but I know this is what he wants & you aren't it. In the past I'd call the OW up in a heartbeat, but this time, I don't have the energy for that fight.

I'm beginning to feel so let down by my H. Why is it whenever I need him most, he's not there? What is wrong with him? He's always saying that he's just wants someone to love him. What am I chopped liver? Doesn't he know that I love him more than life itself? Doesn't he know that I'd walk through fire to save him if he were in trouble? That I don't care that he doesn't have some fancy job or title or that he's not rich. I look up to him & am proud of him because he's good at what he does? That I'm in awe of his artistic abilities & I want our child to be like her dad in that respect. Why doesn't he know this? Maybe because I never told him. I'm a lot like that typical dad you see on tv miniseries where the kids always vyed for his love & affection because he seems so cold & unfeeling sometimes. But why now when I want to show him those things (and I have been doing this the better part of the year) is he shutting me out. I feel like I burden him by asking for a kiss before he leaves for work. It used to be the other way around. If I forgot he'd call me later in the day & say you forgot to kiss me. Now - they're hurried & quick. Why do they act this way? The OW isn't even someone he would want to spend the rest of his life with. He knows she wouldn't be faithful to him (her track record with men is pretty bad), so what's the deal? Is it the guilt of getting her pregnant? I just don't understand this at all. Why is he acting so ambivilent towards me? Like I have asked him to do something so terrible & awful. All I have ever even wanted was for us to actually rebuild what we were so busy tearing apart. That's it. Nothing more. I just wanted to pick up the pieces & go get new ones & rebuild our M so that it was better than it was before. I can live with the fact that there is an OC out there if I knew my M was going to be made better & whole because of it. Sigh - sorry this got long, I just needed to let it all out. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Hey Vee, i say that if you love him, you have to make him feel like he has something to hold on too. Wear that favorite perfume, cook his favorite meal, and let him know about the phone records. You got to get up close and personal, and if he loves you that much, he won't stand to see you with someone else, even if he has someone else. Tell him to get it together, or you will replace him with someone who will give you what you need.

So don't be down, and life your head up. But at the same time you have to call him out and give him a huge gut check..

Amlo

Amlo -
Perfume - what's that?????!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Oh - I know my H would be devastated at the thought of me and someone else. The problem is that the fog is so thick - I can't get through it. I don't know what else to say to the man. I wrote him a letter, I told him again this am that I don't like feeling second, that all I want is for him to say I'll do whatever. Nothing - he won't budge. His only answer is that I don't listen or why bother to answer me when I have all the answers. (Meaning when I asked him about contact w/ OW I told him him, yes he was still in contact with her). His thing was - well I come home don't I? And as far as cooking a big meal - done that about 50 million times! Plus - I'm also pregnant & due any day now, so we all know I'm pretty hormonal. Agh - I do fine then as usual I hit a spot during the week where I just break down.

Vee-If your husband is not ready to recommit himself to your marriage (as it seems he is not), Let him go. I went through everything you stated the first time AMLO left our home. Me doing all those things for him is not what worked, it was his revelation, or brokeness, that there was nothing better out there. Also my involvement with AM did not hurt. My H has just started this new attitude recently. Trust me I know how you feel. Also, my H says he is not dealing with his issues of infidelity and sex addiction for me, but for himself. That has made a tremendous difference.

Well - I had another problem surface today. One of my friend's called me to tell me that my H was spotted with OW on Monday night. I called my counselor who was kind enough to talk to me over the phone (and I have an appt with him in the am now since I didn't handle the news to well) and he advised me to tell my H - either the M or the OW. Not that I should put this in an ultimatum, but I know that I can't keep going through this.

I didn't want anyone to know about what was going on in my house. I told my parents & another good friend of mine, but I just didn't want the whole world to know. We always seemed like this happy couple & now I'm sitting here watching it all come crashing down.

Lo - I know I can't keep him here if this is not what he wants. My heart just refuses to let him go. I think I know my H well enough to know that if I say 'no contact' with me, it probably won't hurt him one single bit. When we separated earlier this year, he tried really hard for the 1st few months & then he sought out OW. I just know if I say I can't be in your life if you have contact with OW that he'll say fine & won't even bother to work on our marriage. And that my friends is what hurts most.

Vee

Hi Vee, I am sorry that your husband is still seeing the OW. But what has help me is knowing that there is higher power that is is giving me strenght to fight the devil off(temptation of Lust). I don't know if you all have God as number one in your marriage, but for a first time, I have put him over everything and everyone else. Next in line is me making my wife the happiest woman on earth. It makes me good to see her smile again...

I had to make a decision, that the grass ain't greener on the other side of the street. Everything that I have always wanted in a woman, I have looked and searched high and low, and through it all, none compare to the one who I married 6 years ago. its kinda like the Wizard of Oz, Dorothy could have went home along time ago, all she had to do was click her heels 3 times. When she got to Oz, the grass was not greener, and she was let down. My W is my RUBY RED SLIPPERS, and I hope God gives me the strenght to never Stray again...

Dear Vee

Your post was so like so many of mine were two year and four years ago. The truth is, many of our Wayward Spouses behaved much like yours is now. Am Lo and Lo Am are the exception rather than the rule, believe me. It is rare to see that kind of commitment right out of the gate so early in the game. Most of us have to go through all kinds of back and forth, love you-hate you stuff, rejection, fog, etc, etc.

Nothing will begin changing for you until your husband has severed ALL CONTACT with the OW. If he is luke warm with you and cavalier in his attitude, it could be his continued involement or it could be he just thinks the damage he has done to the marraige is so severe that you will never nor can you ever forgive him and that nothing will ever be the same.

Nothing will ever be the same. But it can be and does get better than ever imagined for many of us. It took Bipolar and myself nearly three years to get to the point where recovery was even possible for us. Now our recovery is something so much grander, so much more fabulous than I could ever have imagined...I am floored. And grateful.

There is hope, Vee, but there are things you MUST do to preserve what is left of your love for him and to get yourself on track and forward focused. It is a risk, but a risk worth taking...Plan B. It is the only thing that will show him what life would be like without any communication with you. You go into a STRONG Plan B and sit back and in a few weeks, watch the magic. He will either come back willing to sever all contact and recommit or you will realize that your life is better without him and that you are healing and gaining back your confidence and esteem. You will feel self assured and have your dignity intact....and you will be so incredibly attractive to your husband because you won't be there seeming needy and scared and timid but strong, independent and have the world by the [censored]. The OW will suddenly loose her luster and he will see that she was nothing compared to you and what a huge mistake he made trading down from a Porche to a Yugo.

There are things you can do to speed this up and end your torture. Either way, whatever happens, you will end up the winner.

Examine what it is that is making you feel such loving feelings and attraction to a man who has done the most horrible and unspeakable thing a person can do to a marriage and determine if it is just your fear of rejection and abandonment, being alone, loosing to another woman or if you are truly committed to him because you believe he is just temporarily lost. Some of us, (me included) originally stayed in the marraige to "win". My monumental ego couldn't stand the thought of being dumped for some cow out east with an intellectual equivalent to a grape. My vanity is only second to the Wicked Stepmother in Snow White..."mirror, mirror..."

Once I felt I had 'won', I could relax a little and start working on the marriage full force. I worked harder at it than he did. I made all the effort, I was loving and compliant while he was cool, detached and aloof. This went on for several months when I had had enough and implemented a strong Plan B. My Plan B lasted only a weekend. For some reason, that was all it took for us. Most take much longer for sure, but once I told my husband I forgave him and the damage was not insurmountable, HE relaxed and let me in and the healing began.

Our road was rockier and longer than most because of his illness, but now all that is behind us (controlled and manageable) and we focu only on each other and look forward to our future together.

So, there IS hope, Vee. Figure out what you need to do and start the ball rolling. Don't be afraid. We are all here for you. There will be times when things will seem to get a little better then suddenly fall apart allover again. Then there will be other times when it seems like it's hopeless and you'll never make it when there will be a surprising break through that gives you hope and the strength to forge ahead.

Stay strong. God bless and keep you protected and comforted.

Catnip =^^=

Vee, I saw the title for your post, and my heart sank for you. I am sorry that he is still in contact with her, and I whole-heartedly agree with Catnip...a strong plan B. And I also feel that the two results she mentioned would in either way benefit you, and using the "plan B" approach would only lessen the turmiol for you.

Think about what she said...
NGU

Thanks ya'll but here is my nice little update to what happened with yesterday's developments. I left a VERY ugly message on my H's phone & told him that his "sh*! was in the street & he had been seen with the OW & that she was pregnant, yadda". When I did talk to my H 4 hours later, my H said - "Yes, I was at that Coffee Shop at 1am after work, but it was not with the OW. It was with 'Jane' a co-worker, that you KNOW, Vee so you know she is pg also." "AND YES, we are regulars at that coffee shop, but did the waitress ever bother to mention that there is usually 4 of us at this shop, but on Monday John & Jake weren't there?"

I was a bit floored. My H when caught tells the truth. Each A has all been the same. Even when I discovered his A, he will tell all. He then went on to say that "I saw your friend's sister and I SPOKE to her. Did anyone bother to mention that? It didn't even dawn on me at the time that someone would think something else was going on. But considering this friend (who I actually don't disclose the details of my personal life to because she's a big gossip) and her track record, I should have said something about it to you."

So I asked him about the continued contact with the OW. And he said yes I do still call to check up on her because of her situation with the threatened miscarriage. But NO I am not still seeing her. He went on to say that he told me from day 1 that he wants to be here, but he is afraid that I will just throw him out & he's not sure where I stand on this. He also said that he is upset because he feels that I think he won't be there to provide for our child when in fact that is all that he really wants to do. He went on to tell me that his problem right now is that he has to provide for 2 children & he is pretty angry with himself for screwing up so badly. The other thing is that after I calmed down I realized that the OW isn't showing yet. She's only about 16 weeks, so the description of the very pregnant woman from the coffee shop doesn't fit. When I saw the OW, I couldn't tell she was pregnant and even with me, people never asked me if I was pregnant until I was about 6 months along. I figure she'll probably be the same way because she & I are so tall.

So - I met with my IC today & he & I went over what needs to happen next. He suggested that I tell my H that I'm afraid that he doesn't love me just as he is afraid that I'm going to throw him out & walk away from him. Also - I have to apologize for doing some serious LBing and leave it at that. My IC also told me that I need to explain to my H that I need for him to be honest with me about any contact he has with the OW. I have asked my H to do this in the past & he has always done so. So I can't see where this would be a problem to him.

I talked to my best friend about all of this last night & after she found out that my H was spotted with a co-worker & not the OW, she told me - ok - now I know what to tell you. She said that I had something to work with here & that right now neither of us are very equipped to deal with each other. She told me to give him a few months to work through his issues of screwing up royally & trying to be a provider and at the same time she would be praying for patience for me. This is really all hard for me because I feel that there should be some cut & dry roadmap to how this is all supposed to work.

I'm a big control freak - my way or no way at all. So - I'm going to talk to my H about how I feel through all of this. Then after that, the rest of my energy will be devoted to working on my own issues. I feel like I'm trying to 'force' my H to stand up & say he is willing to committ himself fully even after he's done everything I have asked of him so far. He moved home even after he said he didn't think he should (which earlier this year he wouldn't do), he's home when he says he will be (which he wasn't doing until I said something about how it bothered me) and his playstation game parties have all been at our house instead of someplace else. I even play with him because I know how much it means to him (even though I hate losing). With all of the things I know he has done because I asked & I still want him to say - I'll do whatever. I need the reassurance so that I don't feel like the world's biggest idiot.

Catnip - thanks for pointing out that it doesn't start out like that. I think I have been assuming that it should start out that way. I have been feeling totally rejected & second best here. My H will try is hardest to explain to me that "He was never choosing." But right now, I just don't feel that way. And I still don't even know what he could fully do to make me feel less in that way. I don't know if maybe his way of saying that he was never choosing is to stay with me instead of going at it all alone like he had planned on doing. Anyway - my head hurts from trying to make sense out of all of this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ya'll - keep praying for me & my H.

Vee

Vee, I had to pop in to tell you about the "wishy washy" stage I suffered through.

I too had to battle feeling second best because my H wasn't on bended knee, crying for forgiveness and vowing to spend the rest of his life making it up to me.

Now, looking back, I'm glad he didn't. Because all of those promises would have been made to me, for my benefit to make me feel better. And to ease the "guilt" of what he had done.

So what's better? Having him come to grips with what he's done on his terms. Having him not want to ever cheat again because he feels it's wrong in his soul and in God's eyes.

I didn't want my husband's remorse and "good behavior" to be based on simply a promise or pledge to me. Because as we all know, those promises and pledges can be broken.

I want his "good behavior" to be based on his relationship with God. I want his promises to be to God, because only God can protect him from temptation and infidelity. That relationship is stronger than our marriage will ever be. And our marriage's stregth is dependant on the strength of our individual relationships with God.

So what does all this mean for you? Somehow, someway you have to muster up the strength to focus on YOU. Most post I read that you write are centered around what you H did next. And that's o.k. I'm not trying to bash you. Because this is the place we vent and get things off our chests.

But I know I'd like to see you take greater strides to focus less on him and more on you. I know this is tough with you being pregnant. I can totally relate to feeling vulnerable when you are sooooo pregnant.

Our oldie Broken Wings had to go through the tail end of her pregnancy and delivery without her husband. He had moved out with another OW. She can probably tell you she had to tap in on strengths she never thought she had to be strong for not only her unborn baby but for her little girl. She had to go it alone.

You may not be as unfortunate as her, but you should mentally prepare yourself for having the same "distant" husband at your birth. If things don't change drastically he might not give you the "excitement" you are anticipating. That scares me for you. I know how special that moment is for us and I don't want you to get all geared up and it disappoint you.

I hope I haven't shaken you up to bad. Please don't think I'm trying to be mean. I've tried to be as gentle as I can.

But I am worried for you. I'm worried that you are neglecting the work that needs to be done on your self esteem, your self discovery, your growth as an individual (and later a wife).

And a side note ... men are attracted to self sufficient and independent women. And it doesn't mean that independent women can't be loving and nurturing. They just aren't "needy". I was guilty of being needy. And boy was it a turn off.

Perhaps at your next counseling session you could ask your therapist to help you focus on improving you and your inner self and less on your marriage.

You might be pleasantly surprised at the results for you and your marriage.

Do you attend church weekly? I found that getting in touch with my spiritual self and rebuilding my relationship with God gave me unmeasurable strength to tackle whatever was thrown my way. Faith is a great coat of armour.

Do you have aol or aim? If you want my handle ask around to any members you may speak to off boards. You can also email the moderators and they can give you my email addy. Put "marriage builders" in the subject line so I don't delete you with all the other buld emails I get.

Best of luck dear,
I'm praying for you,
Z.

Vee, I am wishy washy too. AmLo is trying so hard to please me, and thats what I asked for, but its not really helping me! I feel like I am being ungrateful and an insecure brat. I love him for what he is doing, but now I wonder like you said is there anything right now he can do to satisfy me. I have to be satisfied within myself to accept the loving things he is doing. That I am worthy of such actions. I will bring this up in counseling next week. Meantime, I told him from this day forward, I am accepting him as truthfull and sincere, and I will not doubt everything he does/says. Seems like we are in the same boat Vee, maybe I am pregnant too?!