I have a few questions for those out there in this situation. Who was able to stay married after this ordeal? If so, how long did it take for the betrayed spouse to say I still want to be with you? If not, was it too much to handle or was the wayward spouse not willing to go through the steps to try and reconcile? I might be the minority here since I was the wayward spouse, but is there hope? I am being completley honest with my wife. I am trying to find a new job to get away from the other woman. I am willing to do whatever it takes. My wife's big concern is the visions of what happened. SHould I offer to tell her what happened or wait til she asks? I screwed up but I love my wife and want her back. Can anyone shed some light on these questions?

Hi,
I'm not a formerly betrayed spouse nor a former wayward spouse, I'm a former OW (when I was single), but I have been a MBer for some years now so maybe my answers can be helpful...

I think it is terrific that you are willing to relocate jobs--that is definitely a step in the right direction.

As far as your BS's questions, I think it is good if you answer what she asks you because the fact that she is asking means she is ready for the answer.

Some say that not knowing details is better, but if your wife specifically asks for details, I think if you lie in order to protect her--either outright or by omission--you will insult her intelligence.

Besides, when the whole truth comes out eventually, you want the pieces to all fit together, not some facts missing or if you forget what you told her 2 years ago and tell her something different then risk recurring BS trust issues.

Whatever you decide, always be honest. You don't want to be rebuilding your marriage on a foundation of more lies. The deception is what perpetuated the problems (of cheating) in the first place. Radical Honesty is the best policy.

There are many marriages that survive affairs who post here on MB, even ones with OCs so you can make it, it's up to you to change what environment contributed to your affair. Switching jobs is a great start! Recovery does take years and years tho. It's amazing how WS's make up their minds that their bad behavior is over, but the BS must live with and manage their pain for years and years to come.

Make no mistake, OPs do not go scott free either. Everyone has consequences to pay after the affair... The difference between BS pain and OP pain is OP and WS pain is self-inflicted. BS and OCs are innocent.

In Surviving An Affair, Dr.Harley says that each one contributes to the environment surrounding the affair tho, and in order to move forward, each must accept their role--BS, WS and OPs...

Good luck in your recovery--it's mostly up to you to reassure your wife that you are worthy of receiving her trust again. It's not an easy job, but it's doable and definitely worth the work!

<small>[ August 18, 2003, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>

anyone else out there with insight?

Hi ff1771,

I'm the WW, and was able to remain married.

It took my H 12 hours after I confessed A/OC to say he wanted to remain with me, that he loved me, and that he wanted to raise OC as our own together. I am truly blessed, and thank God everyday. I can't tell you how difficult it is not to shout it from the roof top the fact that I'm not only married to the greatest man, but greatest person I know. I do tell and show him regularly though. I also unabashadly take every opportunity on here to express it.

I believe the BS ability to forgive is very much linked to the remorse the WS displays, and also if the WS is totally forthright. It makes a huge difference when the WS comes forward w/ the A, confessing it before the BS finds out on their own. I was slow to grasp that point, but sure glad I finally did, and luckily for me, in time.

Yes, most times it is just too much for the BS to handle, especially so soon after discovery to say, "ok...I forgive you", even when WS is clearly remorseful. (I think my H's quick decisions and forgiveness are a rarity). Afterall, what evidence can we WS possibly provide that our word can be trusted? Actions speak a lot louder, and come into play big time at this point.

I think in my case, what helped my situation a lot, is that after confessing, I told my H that I loved him, wanted the M, wanted the M to be better than we ever thought it could be, and would work to prove it. BUT, I also submitted to him by saying he had every right to leave me, every right to kick my cheating, lying butt to the curb, every right to tell the world what I had done to him. Certainly every right to say no way to being daddy to OC! I made it clear that I realized I had stolen his choices by what I did, and by keeping it from him as long as I had. Now I was giving at least that much back to him, even though my fidelity to him was forever gone.

I wouldn't suggest just blurting out all the details, but I also wouldn't just wait for your W to ask. Instead, I would tell her that you are an open book, that you will tell her all that she wants to know right now, and also that she can come to you and ask you anything at any time of the day or night. Promise that you will be truthful, then follow through. She has the right to know as much or as little as whe wants to know. Go at her pace.

Just try to think if you were the BS, wouldn't the visions be horrific? Many on here have said that the reality ended up being less awful than the visions.

BTDT made a wonderful point when she said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It's amazing how WS's make up their minds that their bad behavior is over, but the BS must live with and manage their pain for years and years to come.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All of us WS would be wise to always remember that!!

I also agree w/ BTDT, it is a great step in the right direction you are looking for other employment. I hope you will consider all jobs, even if for less cashola, and even if a change of location. I believe God will bless you for it.

Continue to tell your W you will do whatever it takes, but also DO it!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

~aut

ps. And, yes...there IS hope!!

aut,

Thank you for letting me know there is hope. W and I had our second session of marriage counseling last nite. I realize that I need to go her pace. I did tell her I am an open book. I also told her she has the right to kick me to the curb. I told her I love her and want this marriage. I actually am looking to switch careers and start at less money. Just waiting to get into carpenter's training program. I now understand that this will take some time. I have to wait until my wife is ready to make a decision. I do love her with all my heart and wish I never inflicted this pain on her. I was so stupid to do what I did. I have realized a lot thru this. I just hope it isn't to late. I hope I can save my marriage and family. Thanks again for the encouraging words.

It has been 11 years since my H came home and told me he didn't love me anymore.Aug he asked for a divorce. Nine mos later I learned there was another woman involved. He backed off of the divorce in Nov after then counseling. I learned I was pg in Feb. I learned about the OW in May. We continued to live together, share house and bed. He saw the OW in March to end it. Saw her April to end it, she got pg also. In May she told him she was pg, expecting him to leave me for her and their child. He told her he was no longer going to leave me.
My son was born in Sep. In Nov, I told him if he still wanted to leave I could handle it, and he told me no the affair was over and he was staying with me. In Jan we had our 20th anniversary, unbeknownst to me, her child was born the DAY before our anniversary. She lives in anther state, 8hrs from us. She asked him to be there but he declined. I learned about the OC in April.
We then made legal arrangements for CS and visitation.
That was 11 years ago. We are still together and stronger for it. However we have never had contact with OW or OC in that time. He pays child support but wants nothing more to do with them. Not my choice but I support his decision. Our children know nothing.
I don't know if this helps you, but that is my story in a semi nut shell. Any questions I will respond if I can.

Texasgirl

texasgirl,

was there any doubt in your mind if you wanted to stay with him? my wife talks about visions of what i did that run thru her head. how do you deal with knowing that part of your money goes to support his child? i am asking these questions mainly to have some idea of how to help my wife answer these questions. I have suggested to her to come here and create a login. she says she has been here, but i don't think she has set up an account. I have seen a lot of good things here and I think I can put all of them into motion, I just need my wife to want to as well. I can understand that it takes time. I look at things now and see a big obstacle but I believe that love will prevail if both people truly love each. We lost faith in our love and that lead my wife and I to this ordeal. I know we still love each other and I don't want us to not follow our love this time.

ff,

I am not sure I can help with your W, but I can identify with the way she must feel right now, you see I am the BS with WH who lives with OW and OC. I would imagine that she is reeling with confusion, pain and anger. It shakes the foundation of your entire world and everything you thought up to that point was true, is no longer.

I know that when I first found out about A, most of my family and friends recommended D immediately, it was only because of my religious beliefs that I didn't. A very good friend recommended that I take some time before making such a huge decision and that was really good advice. Perhaps your W is feeling a lot of pressure from a lot of different directions right now. A good Plan A would help.

If you haven't learned the principles of this MB site, then spend some time learning how to meet your W needs, and understand how to communicate with her better. Keep up the counseling. Be patient. Let her know that you are there and aren't going anywhere and you will do whatever it takes.Listen to her when she talks and give her a chance to say whatever it is she needs to say, make her feel like it is safe to reveal her feelings, even the ones you don't want to hear.

I am so happy to see that you are willing to work on saving your M, and that you realize how much it has hurt your W. I would like to know if you can give any insight to why you chose to return to your W and your M rather than the OW and the OC? I am looking for answers in my own situation, not trying to pry. I almost feel like my WH is staying with OW because he is too proud to admit that he made such a stupid mistake and is afraid to face what it would take to make things right. I respect you for doing what is right, and I wish you and your family the best.

Keep us posted here how things are going, ok?

cajeanie

cajeanie,

well thank you for your insight. I will give you what insight I might have. Over the few months that I spent with other women I found myself comparing her to my wife. I was used to certain reactions and behaviors. I first thought that it was just something I needed to get over, but it hit me that those were the things that I loved about my wife. Those were the things I wanted from a woman and a soulmate. I then at that point cut off my relationship with other woman and asked my wife for a second chance. My affair with OW was a first me feeling wanted. My wife told me she wanted a divorce and asked me to leave. That is what prompted the relationship with OW. I will admit that I was forming an emotional relationship wtih the OW before being asked to leave. I want to be with my wife and family because I was looking for some big sign of love and acceptance from my wife and she was looking for the same, but we both missed all the little things that we did for each other. OUr Marriage Counselor explained 5 ways to show love and my wife and I actually had done the specific examples for each other and didn't realize it was love. I hope that helps. feel free to ask any other questions.

It wasn't easy, but I loved him and wanted our marriage to work. We also had 4 children with number 5 on the way. The divorce laws worked in my favor, no court would grand divorce while I was pregnant. I wanted him to be there when baby was born.
I had not found this place but our counselor reccommended Divorce Busting to me. That worked for me. However, there is nothing that helps deal with the OC situation.
HONESTY is what saves the day. Don't lie to her anymore. all of your time is accountable to her. She will want to know how she measures up sexually against the OW. HOpefully you can tell her honestly that it wasn't about sex, or she is a better lover than the OW.
She will ask when you make love, if you think of OW while making love to her, your wife. She will want to know how many times you made love to the OW; where, when, and sometimes how. Can you answer those questions?
You cannot tell her you love HER and her alone too many times. She needs that assurance. Actions speaking louder than words.
You might set aside a weekend and go away. Use that weekend to cleanse the air and your relationship. It will a catharsis for both of you. It will be painful for both of you. But you clear the air, then go home starting a fresh page in your lives together.
Remember you are a couple and only by working together can you stay a couple.
Just my suggestions. Take what you think will work for you. I think so long as you both love each other, you can overcome this situation.

As far as the OC, it is easier to rebuild the marriage if there is no contact with OW. Contact with OC inherently involves the OW. So I would suggest NC until your marriage is on steady ground. If you want contact, make sure you are honest about that from the beginning. Make your wife a part of that. Make sure the OW understands the affair is over and you and your wife are a couple. The OW will respect your wife and your marriage.
We have no contact. My H's choice. I didn't want it at first, but once we were on firm ground thought we should be involved with his OC, but he said no.
Well enough from me. I will post more later if you want.

Texasgirl

Officially 4 weeks since I found out that OE was pregnant. My wife is still talking to me and we actually have plans do do some things together this weekend. I am in agreement that I need to have NC with OW or OC at first to make sure our marriage gets on steady ground. It should be easier since the OW intends to move halfway across the country before OC is born. My wife and I seem to do great. Our relationship ship is at a new intimacy level. We talk and talk a lot. THe drawback to the whole thing is when she sits and thinks. She sees visions. I think we are on the right track and things take time. I love her more than anything.

There is no quick fix for this situation. It will take a year to regain what you have lost. That is a positive view. It is like post traumatic stress syndrome. There will be flash backs. Just when you think it is all behind you, "up jumps the devil". There will be a trigger and she will relive these days again. But these times will get fewer and fewer.
Don't get discouraged.
Anything worth having is worthe fighting for, working for. If you believe your marriage is something you want to fight and work for get in there and do it.

Texasgirl

texasgirl,

thank you for the words of encouragement. i plan to keep fighting and doing my best to regain my wife's trust. i will be there to comfort her when the flash backs happen. i love her with all my heart and hope and pray that we can save our marriage. the past month has been filled with a lot of great days that my wife, daughter and I have shared. we have gone this long with out fighting and that hadn't happened in a long time. I keep taking it one day at a time and keeping my chin up. I am doing all I can to assure my love and remorse. thanks again.

ff,

I'm back again with another question, so hope you can help.

I appreciate your answering my other question, and now see that you and my WH are miles apart. He left because he was already deep into A with OW and now I just found out they had OC.

Problem is, my WH said for months he didn't want a D, and for months has been getting more distant, but not letting go and never wants to discuss our M or where it is going - if I try, he hangs up. We live far apart and have been communicating by phone and letters, and I was hoping to hang in there and Plan A long distance and wait out the A, but now things are different.

He has not told me about the OC, I heard this through a distant relation who informed me that he had taken his "new family" to visit his inlaws.

Also, he told them he didn't want me to find out about the OC and that is why he was keeping it a secret.

and yet, a few weeks after the OC was born, I got a very sweet thank you letter from WH for his birthday gift, which included pictures of the new me, (lost lots of weight and look 30 again) and him telling me how proud of me he is for all my recent accomplishments?

Sorry to go on but here's the thing. He still hasn't told me about the OC, and my counselor wants me to confront him. Do you think I should confront him and if so, how do I do this without major LB's?

If you think I should wait and let him do it, then should I just go to Plan B and "go dark" and just wait to see what happens?

Or, should I move back there and let my Wh know I mean what I say that I want our M to work?

I would appreciate any thoughts you might have on this, especially since you can relate in some way to where he might be right now. I would really appreciate getting your view on this.

How are things with your W? I am praying for you and your family.

Thanks, Cajeanie

It's been about 5 years for me and it feels like yesterday...sometimes. My pride is what has been injured the most I think. I wasn't even mad about the physical part. What bothered me was the intimacy. Long after they physically separated, I found out that he was still contacting her...and not always regarding the OC. I encouraged him to keep the lines of communication open esp when it came to the OC but he was very selfish. When he call to make arangements to send things (ie gifts, clothing) he'd use that opportunity to talk to her about our problems. I personlly think he wanted to keep us as enemies so we wouldn't gang up on him (how childish).
I went through quite a few phases. At first, I made suggestions. Some I couldn't believe I was making - like how often he should call and even visitation arangements. Silly me, trying to make the best out of a horrible situation on his behalf. But he would also put it off. He wanted things on his terms. Then I decided to make demands. I knew that wasn't the best idea, but I was running out of them. Of course they didn't work. Now, at this point, he can do whatever he thinks is best. I have given him my trust and hope that he makes the best decision since he knows them best, but he knows that if he betrays my trust again, I am out the door...no discussion or compromising. It'll be too late. Funny thing is, I haven't felt freer in my entire relationship.