I am a newbie here, but from what I read so far it seems as if N/C w/ OC is the best route to go if you want to rebuild your marriage. I know every situation is different of course as is every WH, BW, & OW. I believe my situation in particular is unique since there are no children involved from my marriage.

Having said that my question is for those betrayed wives who have contact with OC how many can truly say their marriage in is recovery? And if so do you see from your experience that OW is or was problematic & if she was in the beginning is she not now because she has a man in her life.

In a perfect world, OW would find a H of her own, & allow my H to be a part-time father to his daughter & stop using OC to interfere in my marriage. Of course in a perfect world this would never have happened!

I am having a moment here I guess, & wondering if I am fooling myself into thinking this will ever really work out? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I think I am the only BW around here lately, w/ C w/ OC.

It is different (isn't it always?) because C w/ OC did not begin until OC was 4 1/2 yo.(May 2002)

From my experience, I feel it was a mistake and very damaging to my family (BC) and marriage. I think we were well on our road to recovery BEFORE C was started and it set us way back and since then it has been almost HELL trying to fight our way to get our marriage back into the stable state it was in B4 C was established.

We have never been closer to divorce and our entire lives falling apart since d-day as we have been since C was started in 5/02.

It has been harder than I ever imagined.

OW has said she never wanted or was trying to get back w/ my H. Her actions have made me think otherwise. IF OW was not trying to get back w/ my H then she was only deliberately trying to EXCLUDE me and my BC from OC life. Either way it was wrong.

I now believe OW did not want any of us involved (H included) in OC life and only wanted CS. Which is ok by me but OW did not make that clear. If we had known that was OW's only desire----we would have done it.

I am now against C w/ OC. I struggle w/ this but I just don't see how it can work. Believe me I have tried, am still trying.

C has hindered our recovery enormously. C has been even worse for our marriage.

It is not the OC fault, of course. Just like it would never be my BC fault. But OC IS in the middle, no denying that.

There were/are other issues that crept in that would not have if C was never established. It was like opening up a huge, uncontrollable can of worms!

Today, OW and I had to speak to one another about OC. It was 'pleasant', meaning I stayed on track and kept the conversation short and to the point. Other days OW gets 'off track' and it gives me PTSD symptoms all over again.(remember my 'lovely' email thread?)

Knowing what I know now, I would have avoided C at all costs. Also knowing what I know now, I would have set some major guidelines/boundaries from the very beginning. We had to learn the hard way, all of us (BS, OW & H), and it has not been pretty.

I think it may be easier on us if OW had another man to focus some of her energies on but she says she will never get married because she doesn't believe in marriage <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> (OW has another child w/ no dad) and there is no one else for her.

I could go on and on but I think you can just look over some of my history here to see all I have done to get through this and what it is I have been dealing with.

It is such an abnormal (although not uncommon) situation that I resent having to 'accept' it and try to treat the situation as 'normal' by having regular C.

BTW we have A LOT of C. We have 40% timeshare w/ OC and H has joint legal & physical custody.
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For anyone considering C, I could offer up some very reasonable boundaries/guidelines and advice on how to go about it and what to avoid and what patterns to establish from thebeginning that I think could help avoid some of the problems we have had and encountered.

Hey KT,

I figured this was a long shot, I think too that you are one if not the only BW dealing with contact with OC & OW issues that it brings. Thanks for the reply, but you did nothing to inspire me. (LOL) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> For anyone considering C, I could offer up some very reasonable boundaries/guidelines and advice on how to go about it and what to avoid and what patterns to establish from thebeginning that I think could help avoid some of the problems we have had and encountered. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In my case of course C is not an option, it was established when he lived w/ her for 8 months & of course continued, not the way we talked about, once he returned home. That is what I mean when I say that since this started off the way it did, with OC not be "allowed" in our home cuz OW is "uncomfortable" w/ me my life w/ H has been hell also. Supposedly legal visitation will be established soon, but I can see her still playing games since no other man wants to be in her miserable little life right now.

I do know your history KT, as you have shared here, & I commend you for trying to make the best out of this unfair situaiton, OC should not have to suffer for the mistakes of H & OW but it happens. At least you know you are attempting to do what is right.

Oh well, maybe just maybe someone can give me a ray of hope on this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Well, so you have been in OC life since birth? I think that counts for something, hopeful @ least.

Although it would have been harder @ the time w/ D-day emotions running so high, I think establishing C in the beginning might be easier down the road but then again........I don't know how it would be possible for the marriage to survive.

I mean the A just ends upon discovery of pg and then all of a sudden everyone is going to be ok playing house w/ wife and OC coming to visit?

I don't see that realistically happening.

maybe it could somewhere? maybe in a HAREM where all the woman are friends and support each other? LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I just don't see it happening in real life.

I ask myself almost every day....maybe this IS just TOO much for a person. Maybe there is a limit to what one can tolerate and not LOSE IT completely.

It's getting harder and harder for me overall yet easier and easier day by day. Does that make sense to you? It's the everyday things that get easier to handle but seeing the big picture overwhelms me, knowing that it will be like "this" FOREVER fills me w/ deep sorrow. Unexplainable really.

Maybe I just need to start ad meds again.

I feel like I am in a deep abyss and it is consuming. I start to see a light @ the end of the tunnel and a ray of hope but it's only for a moment, like a shadow or echo of hope but then it's gone. I am alone and everyone feels so far away from me. There is nothing to hold on to or grasp. It encompasses me fully and wholey. I am consumed.

Life is going on all around me and I am in it but feel like I am not part of it. This all sounds so crazy to me but it's how I feel and the best way I can describe it. Like it's just not real, somehow this is not really my life.

How is this real? How do I have a child in my home every few days that is a part of my H but not me? How is this possible? How is it that I teach my children that you do not have sex outside of marriage and you are not supposed to have children unless you are married and then here is a huge contradiction to every thing I have been taught and everything I have taught them.

How can this be? How did this happen? What happen to the plan I had for my life? What happen to the life I planned for my kids? What happened to everything? Who's life is this? It cannot be mine, I did not make this decision for my life. Who chose this for me and why? How did I get HERE?

For the rest of my life I will struggle w/ this. I stand up for my choices, I own them and take responsibility for them. I did not choose this.

I know some will say that I chose this when I chose to forgive my H and stay married to him. NO, that's not true. OW chose NC and then H and I got back together. 4 years went by, I was getting on w/ my life then OW chose to come back and disrupt us.

The nerve of OW to say that she did not ask for this either! That's right, OW only asked for the $$$$$$!!!!

I am really having the hardest time accepting this. I know it is dumb. Just accept it, let go. This is my life now and there is nothing I can do to change it so why am I rebelling against it? What is the point? Why fight against it? What am I even fighting?

I really just don't want this life. I don't. I am not going to ruin my children's life by leaving my H, that is not what I want. I love my H. But I don't want to have to try and explain to my ohter BC, as they grow, why OC is not w/ us all the time and *HOW* OC came to be and didn't come from "mommy". I don't want that.

I don't want OW surprising me w/ unexpected antics on her whim either. OW is unpredictable to a point of when she will try to bring up the past or start trouble. I don't want that. It is very hard for me to let go. Can you tell?

I WANT A REFUND. This is NOT what I signed up for. Believe me, I read the FINE print. This was never mentioned!LOL

maybe it is just the weather, it is overcast. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I WANT A REFUND. This is NOT what I signed up for. Believe me, I read the FINE print. This was never mentioned!LOL

maybe it is just the weather, it is overcast </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did not sign up for this either, I told H that just the other day.

I know the weather has a lot to do w/ my mood, it was 70 degrees here on Monday, raining & cold every since w/ snow to look forward to on Sunday!

I think of that too, dealing with this the rest of my life, deep down I know it will never get any better, even with regular visitation. It may be worse then. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I have seen her about once a month since birth, I am not attached to her, don't know if I want to be, I have a hard time even saying I have a step-daughter, but I do that is the reality of it. Even if OW does marry one day she will always be a part of our lives in some aspect, even if it is just looking at OC knowing she is not part of me & never will be. Can I love her? Yes, at what risk to my heart though? Will she ever love me or will I be known as the mean woman who kept her daddy from being her mother's H? I could see myself being painted that way by OW.

I could walk away from this clean now, yes I love my H but is all this worth it??

I am having a really down day, can you tell?

BG~

Stacia_Lee is another BW with C. I'm sure she will be abundantly helpful. She's been there done that, and then some. I'm sure she will be along soon.

Take good care.

~ad

WHEW!!! Here I am!!!
Sorry it took me so long... Bathing kids... Bedtime routines... and getting online is rare these days for me...and I write novellas… LOL... Thanks AD!!!

Babygirl93…
I am also a BW with C w/OC…

Lil Bit is now nearing 3 yrs old…. 3 months to go! We have had contact since the DNA test confirmed she is my H’s child. We had been advised by our attorney to not have any C until it was confirmed… And I agreed totally with her.

Lil Bit was 5 wks old when we began C. The first time H picked her up, we had her overnight… and then 2 wks later we had her again, overnight.
OW needed daycare when she returned to work… H provided it because he works 3rd shift and is home during the day.
He watched Lil Bit for 2 wks and then called Children’s Services because OW was leaving the baby filthy on a daily basis. They removed Lil Bit from OW’s home, pending an investigation.
This is when chaos ensued.
We filed a petition for custody. DCS placed Lil Bit with us… then removed her and placed her with OW’s mother… OW moved in with her…
We fought in court… OW and her Mother kept Lil Bit from us for over a month… then when we did get her for court ordered visitation, they took her to the Dr to “document” bogus conditions. The Dr even commented on it.

Court ordered Parenting Time was placed as 7p Wed through 9am Sun. Timeshare worked out to 51+% for H and 48+% for OW…
Over time, OW made changes… We agreed to her changes… We changed her pick up time on Sundays to noon. Added another 3 hours. More time for us. She needed Daycare again… MORE time for us… I documented every change. Every excuse…

Then last summer, after Lil Bit turned 2… OW left her with us. She left her from July 23rd through Oct 12th … only seeing her for 6 hours on September 14th. Her excuse… She was moving. ALL of this was documented.
We filed for Custody Change on Oct 10th… November 13th, our 10th Anniversary, we were granted Primary Custody of Lil Bit.

There… that is the C background…

As for the OW… yes, she was a pain in the rear at the beginning… She cried to the GAL (guardian ad litem) that H didn’t call her anymore… blah blah blah…
She told friends that she would get H back…. She said I couldn’t keep him because SHE was the mother of his child… How I was not going to be able to have children, EVER.. How Lil Bit would be his last child… blah blah blah…
She told the DSC case worker lies about me..
NOW… she is barely an afterthought…even thought we see her every other weekend. She has tried a few things to get time alone with H… but that doesn’t pan out the way she wants it to…

Our recovery is ongoing… as is ANY good recovery… I learn something every day…
Do I trust him like I did before? No… How can I? It’s a different feeling… now.
Its not a blind trust… it’s a trust that I choose to give… I have my eyes wide open now.. instead of half open… veiled…
Do I think that C was detrimental to my M? No… Did it help it?? No…
Did it help me?? In some ways.. Yes. I found that I am much stronger than I had thought I was… I found that there are some things that I can control about myself… I can't control the OW… or my H… but I can control how I react to situations… and my way of reacting is to do what is best for Lil Bit… SHE is the reason I deal with the OW… SHE is the reason I press my H to fight for her rights… FOR CS… Why I pressed him to go for Custody… He wanted it.. but I guess I am the driving force.. I can’t do it without him.. He is her father.. I am only the stepmother.
But, because of OW’s history, because of her own choices… Lil Bit sees me as her safe place. Someone she can count on… I intend to be that for her … For as long as the good Lord will allow me to be.

I will bump up my “Story” so you can see what I was going through when I first came here…. Read the whole thread… it took me days to write the posts…

Stacia

Stacia,

Thank you so much for sharing your story. It gives me a little hope & I am glad this did not tear your life apart. I know it must have been a long, hard, battle but you won. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I could only hope to have OW out my H's life with the way all this started out, I don't see it ever happening. Also we will never have a child together so there is no real bond between us other than the vows we took & he broke those. I could see being a real step mom to H's daughter but OW doesn't want that & H is acting in some ways as if he doesn't either or he is so scared of OW he just complies w/ her.

Thanks again for sharing, I will look up your old posts.

I am very new to this and appreciate the support and previous advice the posters to this site provided just hours after I found out about A and OC (just under three weeks ago). H states the A has been over for 4-5 months and H wants to restore marriage. I am working very hard to seek to understand and heal but it will take time. We are in counseling and trying to recover.

ktbunch - You wrote "For anyone considering C, I could offer up some very reasonable boundaries/guidelines and advice on how to go about it and what to avoid and what patterns to establish from thebeginning that I think could help avoid some of the problems we have had and encountered." I am very interested in your and anyone elses advice as we search to figure out this complicated situation.

Thank you again for the support and knowing I am not alone.

LostinNW

Some major things I would establish from the beginning, some of these things we did and some we learned to do.

C to include W, EVERY TIME, if not entire family. Icluding pick ups and drop offs. We did do this, OW did not like it. At least have W present every time. This removes any "doubtful" feelings or thoughts about OW C w/ H right from the beginning. Nothing to doubt about if W is always there.

Pick-ups/drop-offs @ a nuetral place, park, school or daycare center. (depending on OC age) This eliminates a lot. Avoids any C @ OW @ her home and "turf", avoids any unplanned conversations, that always have potential to get out of hand. Eventually, as OC is old enough to realize, helps w/ transitions. It can be hard on a child to have to go back and forth, this gives them a predictable stable place to "unwind" before going back w/ OP.

Everything in writing get ALL custody agrements in writing set up in court. EVERYTHING, as clear and detailed as possible. IT must be easily read and understood by police or anyone so it can be enforced if there is ever a problem or ??? about the visitation. This protects both parties from being taken advantage of, if there is a disagreement, you just look to the custody agreement and it is spelled out. NO VERBAL AGREEMENTS. which brings me to my next point:

ALL C W/ OW in writing there will be ?? and things about OC, naturally. So make all communication go through email and a logbook that goes back & forth w/ the child. The logbook is good for medicine directions or things of that nature about the child that you will need to know. The email is best to have a written record of everything else. If you make a visitation change in the schedule or whatever, have it written in the email. This helps to keep everything documented and conversations 'public'.

All this written communication minimizes C w/ OW and avoids any unnecessary C. It helps keeps things focused on the OC and not the A or relationship drama. It's much easier to stick to the point when communication is planned and can be thought out before hand, then written. If an issue came up @ p/u or d/o time it can catch you off guard and H wouldn't be able to discuss it with you and emotions can get involved, this avoids all of that. This way every thing can be thought over and thought through before responding. (this is good to put into the custody agreement, that all communication is through email and logbook only)

Communicate w/ OC school or daycare center yourself this mainly applies once the OC is older and reaches school age or even pre-school. Give the school plenty of stamped self-adressed envelopes for them to mail any flyers, notices or updates that they usually send home w/ children. This way you can be on the up & up and it avoids any pressure on OW to make copies and/or whatever and ensures you get the info in time. Talk to the school yourselves. Just let them know that OC parents are not married, live apart, whatever no need to share the details, they are used to separate families so this should be nothing new to them, be nice and they will be willing to help you.

When the child is older parent/teacher conferences can be separate to. This is very common since many parents are divorced these days. Teachers usually have no problem w/ this. W can go w/ H to these occasions w/o any problem.

These are just a few that I can think of right off the top of my head. If C is going to be established from the beginning I would also have H get JOINT custody, physical and legal. Very important and easier to have this established from the very beginning.

If I think of anything else I will post it. Communication did start w/ H in the beginning but OW was starting to try to manipulate and H got tired of dealing w/ her so now it all goes through me. This does make it easier, OW cannot try to play on anything from their relationship or bring up the past. (although she does still try, which is also why written communication is best so there is a record and no heated arguements ensue, at least not in person. (of course it is still possible to argue through email but....you have the opportunity to control yourselves better and not respond)

There are also minor things to have in the custody agreement but it depends on the nature of OW. Is she likely to cause problems and drama? Will she be able to stay focused on issues only concerning OC? Will you and H?

The court mediator added these things onto the custody agreement, said that this was routine for them.

1) no deragatory remarks about OP in front of OC.
2) Parents are to be respectful to each other @ all times in front of child.
3) Parents will not argue in front of child.

This is common sense for most people but w/ the nature of the relationship and the hard feelings that could be festering between everyone, these are good to include.