Hi Luv,

I am so in your shoes. I tried to go to free meetings in the community for domestic violence. It includes emotional abuse. The last two times I showed up nobody was there. I am going to call next time. We do need to support each other. I am here for you. Like I said you can e-mail me if you like. Or I would even talk on the phone if anybody would like. I have an unlimited plan.

Luv,

I understand alot of what you are feeling, I would put some seriouse thought into the devorice though. I know your at your brink, but there has to be some reason why you thought it was worth it to hold out this long. We filled for devorice in dec. But it's still just filled, I'm glade I didn't go through with it, becouse I know I would have never turned back. Now things feel like they could work out. There not right now, but all of this is new. The new oc, his feelings im sure are going all over the place etc..

I'm not going to say alot that I do want to say to you becouse I'm pritty sure the xow checks out this sight still to see if I'll post.

But I do want to say our situations are alot alike. My h says alot of the same things yours does and does alot of the same things aswell. I personaly don't veiw this as abuse. I feel like they know us better then anyone right, and we know them better then they wish we did sometimes. It's like a rebeliouse teenager, mad at there parents for being right. Or for getting cought doing something they didn't want to stop doing , feeling control of there own lives. Yes in a self destructive way. But well I think they feel so comfortable with us, they feel it's ok to lash out, and say things in the moment they don't really feel. Im not excusing it. But well I think emotional abusers are different, as in it's not siutioanal, it's part of who they are, cutting someone down to feel better about themselves. I do not belive this is what we are talking about. The two might look the same some times. But I think this is still showing your h's confushion, and frestraion with his life.

That's just my opinon though, Im not in your house, of course if you feel like you are getting abused, and it's not just really bad LBing, well then that's a different story..

The way I look at things is like this... The choices he's makeing right now hurt more then I would be able to discribe.. But I realize me talking about everything that is bothering me or that I need to have different in order for me to feel safe in this relationship, is getting processed by his brain as control. So for the moment I keep as much inside as possible. Remind myself that I have my own life, and that I can live with out him. That it's my choice to see if things will eventually get better, or to bolt. And nine times out of ten I really want to bolt, especialy after all of this. But in my heart I really don't want to , that's the anger talking.

I'm trying more and more to take things day by day. Im not trying to build our relationship, or work through anything, Im just trying to live, and not focuse on everything he's not doing, how much time he's with the xow, the fact Im not as of now included in his new daughters life etc etc.. I try not to dwell on the fear, the fear that it's once again a balancing act between the both of us.

I take things day by day, and do not feel like he will leave me for her again. So that's got to count for something even if that's the only thing I am sure of at the moment..

Try to refocuse on yourself more and your children, I know it's hard not to feel resentment, but try to let it flow through you. Perhaps veiw him as a room mate in your mind untill the day he starts acting like your husband, who actually consideres your feelings in the decishions he makes... If after a while you feel he should be ajusted to all of this, and that you two are not progressing at all, then leave... I just don't think anything under a year of them ending the affair etc, is reasonable to think that their won't be confushion. It's maddening but, I think it's just reality...

Just some thoughts anyway...

killjoy

<small>[ July 29, 2004, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: killjoy ]</small>

Hi Luv,

I am totally on your side because as we speak I am leaving work to go to my attny's office. I am going through the same thing that you are with H except the fact that he is still involved with her even though he denies it. I have proof. H is exactly acting like yours and I know that he will now want contact - he has stated it. I feel your pain for I am living the same thing at this time. My H and I have not gotten an inch closer since ai found out about this in fact he continues to lie about it. He leaves me and my kids every night to go be with her.

When he gets angry he'll even say that he's only here for the kids. He'll cll me names like fat a** and tell me that I can go and jump into a lake for all he cares he only wants the kids. Then later he'll say he loves me and wants our family. not to hijack your thread, but I am sad that you have come to the same conclusion that I have, but selfishly I am glad that I am not going to have to do this alone. I need some support and so do you because we still love these fools and would still be with them if they were going to do right by us and the kids.

Luv, I am so sorry that you are where I am!!! My prayers are with you and you are not alone - we are not alone - GOD IS WATCHING OVER US!!

Love ya,

JT

Luv - Just wanted to let you know that I am thinking of you. I keep praying your H will open his eyes and see what a wonderful W he has. Stay strong and keep the faith. God will guide you through this time.

killjoy - Nice post! I like your attitude. One day at a time!!

Talk to you all later.

JT,
So sorry for you too. How did things go at the attys. office. I am going to update all my paperwork from before and send it to her today, that way she will have it when she returns on Monday. What State are you in?

Killjoy,
I never thought my H was abusing me until I was told by my therapist, my priest, a friend and then I read the link someone here provided, and I read stuff that fits my H in a book. Thing is emotional abuse is very difficult to see. Especially if you have the appropriate victim qualitites, i.e. never wanting to argue, smooth things over, give-up what you want to keep the peace, do it because you feel it's the right thing to do. It fits me that the qualities of the abuser fit my H to a T as well. Again, if others did not point it out, I may have never seen it. I knew something was wrong, I felt like I was crazy but it was not me, it's him.

I don't have the book I am reading here with me but I will try to summarize a few things it said that hit home. Everyone has a bottom line regarding what they will leave a relationship over. Sometimes you know that bottom line well before it ever happens and at other times when it happen you know what it is. If you know before hand, you need to tell your partner. I knew and I told him. I told him "I would not accept him being at the birth, he went." I moved my bottom line, which is not the right thing to do. This is what I can't recall exactly how the book said it. If your bottom line is violated and you do nothing about it, you only encourage more violation. Also, not honoring yourown bottom line will lead to a life of emtional turmoil or something like that. This is the key sentence that I can not remember.

I give you a lot of credit if you can do what you are doing. I just can not. I can not feel comfortable and happy in my marriage with my H going to OW's house for visitation. It's too much stress on me and I need to start taking care of myself and I need to be happy.

We argued yesterday and then after saying a prayer I felt bad and apologized. He asked why and I just told him becuae it was the right thing to do. The rest of the day was a little strained.

During our argument he asked what I wanted, I told him for you to leave and go live with OW since that is what you want. He told me that he was not going to let me have our house so that "I can destroy it again."

He left to see OC around 7:30. As he was walking out the door he said, "I'm going over there." I said fine. It was not until much later that I realized he took off his wedding ring. He did not return till after 10. He did not wear his ring to work this morning either.

Hi Luv,

I so feel for you. I tried to have a discussion with my husband Wednesday night. I spoke of him haveing a bad attitude around me and he said it is because I am not happy enough. I said part of it was because of his contact with other woman. I asked him again to make calls to OW in front of me. I asked if he is makeing calls behind my back, how do I know you are not telling her you love her. He got very angry with me at that point and did not want to speak to me. I also told him that it still bothers me that he spent the night in her town a month and a half ago. I told him that I would not have him ever doing that to me again. Meaning that is my bottom line. I cannot deal with him spending the night in her town. It is too much stess on me. I have a feeling I am going to have to leave him as much as I love him. But he also did something else. He put his fist in my face and said one day you are gonna make me hit you. I cried. Later I told him he cannot be threatening me like that because it hurts me. He has not hit me yet but he does threaten to because of the guilt he feels I think.

Luv, He's escallating the level of emotional manipulation because the small psychological crazy-making he's been doing isn't working any more.

Expect more of the same - more intense, etc. because from his mentality, all you need is a little pressure to herd you back into the corner where he could control and manage everything and his twisted multiple life. His focus is that you are the problem.

So now he takes off the wedding ring. Stop the escalation process by taking control and filing for divorce. He will, at that point, realize, you are not some cow to be herded and corralled.

You are a gal who fences cannot confine.

KaylaAndy,

Thanks. I am going to file immediately. My Atty. is out till Monday but I have the old paperwork on my office computer. I am going to update it and send it to her so we can start the ball rolling ASAP.

I have decided that my best bet, while he is still in the house, is to just detach. I no longer ask questions about OW or OC, after the kids are in bed, I head up to bed and read or watch TV.

This weekend is going to be difficult. Going to see if a friend of mine will go to a movie with me. Just need to get out and not be around him so much.

I should have done this in May after he attended the birth. I should have stuck to my guns but I did not. That is my fault but it's not too late to stick up for my-self.

Hi Luv,

I am so proud of you for being srong. I would like you to hang around to support me when I need to be strong. My husband will tell me how I am the worst woman he ever had one minute, and how much he loves me the next. I hate the way I am getting treated. I love him so much though, it will take stength to leave him.

"He told me that he was not going to let me have our house so that "I can destroy it again." "

Does OW live in an apartment? I think one thing he is afraid of losing is material possessions in divorce. Well, too bad, so sad. Stick to your guns, file for what you want. Make sure the judge knows WHY you want a divorce, in as much detail as they will allow. Woman, you have taken more crap than a person deserves to have put upon them. I am just hoping and praying that a judge will show you favor.

Something just crossed my mind that really ticks me off. OW won't let you around OC, yet if he moves in with her will she be allowed around your children? That would royally chap my hide. Also, how does she know you wanted her to have an abortion? Was it because your H told her what you said? LOL, I'm getting madder as I type!

Genia,
I will help you be strong as long as you and all the women here help me.

I think for me, my love for my H is fading but only slightly. I am just finally coming to the realization that no matter how much I love him and I want our family together, I can't have it, he won't let it be and I can't live a lie. Yes, it will hurt to loose the vision of what I wanted, loss always hurts but it's the best thing for me and most likely for my children too.

I can't think about the good times becuase that it part of what sucks me back in. I need to look at what is going on now, how my body is hurting, how my mind is hurting and I need to take care of that before I hurt myself or do something really stupid.

Again, the book I am reading "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay" is really making it clearer for me. I will be happy in the long run if I leave. Initially it will hurt but that will change to happiness. Right now I am hurting so badly and I don't see an end in sight. The only way to stay in my M and be happy would be for someone to take my brain on and for me to be a vegetable. I can't put blinders on any longer, it hurts and I am the only one who can take that hurt away from me. He is not capable of it and won't do it. I can't change him, he does not want to change. I can only change myself.

I look back at the person I was in high school and college and I am no where near that person anymore. I was strong, ambitious, adventurous, fun loving. I have lost a lot of that in this M. A friend from H.S. who I have recently started to speak with again, was even surprised by me. She said, that's not the person I remember.

I also look back at the beginning of our M. Here is a story that will show you how my H was selfish even then. We got married, was given a place for free at the beach for our honeymoon. While there I wanted to do this or that and I wanted to go out to a nice place to eat. My H said, "no, let's watch what we spend so we can buy our house." Dummy me said. "OK" Not four months later he decided to go to a shooting comp. in another state and spent like $500 (probably more) on himself.

He is selfish, controlling and manipulative and even if I love him just a bit, I need to let go so I can be free and happy.

Finding,
He said that about the house because he thinks I am a horrible housekeeper. I am not the world's best but my house is clean and neat. I just prefer to dedicate more time to enjoying life and my kids than cleaning so things tend to get out of hand. He also says that becuase last time we were sep. he "did not approve" of how often or how I cut the grass.

Part of my does not want to stay in the house because of his crap. However, I think it's best for the kids. I also know that it was difficult for me to afford it and I know it would be impossible for him with paying CS to me and OW. He will barely have enough money to live in a S***hole of an apt. Yes, he even told me that if I left him he would be with OW because of finances.

Here is how she knows what I said. She did not believe that H told me about preg. So, she went to her friend to set me up so I could be hurt. Her friend told a girl who told a girl I know. The girl I know called me and basically I thought she cared a little and I let stuff out. I said good stuff too, like I would accept the child if it happens, etc. but that never got back to her. Only the abortion and miscarriage statement.

In the words of Kimmy---WHATEVER!!!

<small>[ July 30, 2004, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: LuvMyFamily ]</small>

Luv,

Oh I feel so bad for you. He was even selfish on the honeymoon. I tried to explain to my husband that he is being negative. I explained that I like to have fun but he is so negative all the time. He says he cannot joke with me and have fun. His interpretation of a joke. There was a woman on TV who was a very temperamental abusive woman who beat her husband. She ended up almost killing her husband. Her mother who was also abusive finished her husband off. My husband said I was just like that woman. I defended myself against what I thought was a put down. Later he told me it was suppose to be a joke. How am I suppose to know when he is jokeing. His jokes are always put-downs. He said he was gonna quit jokeing and having fun with me. When I try and give it back to him he says I am not jokeing and gets angry. I said why can't we joke about positive stuff. He said if I joke about you being pretty then that would mean I really did not think you were pretty. But if he were gonna joke about negative stuff, why won't he say, I am just kidding. But know I am suppose to read his mind. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Luv can you understand this one. I think my husband is makeing me lose myself too. I am a free spirited fun loving person when I am by myself. When I dance around to get his attention he pays no attention to me. Well unless he wants SF. I am so tired of feeling used.
My husband also thinks I am a terrible Housekeeper. In fact, I am the worst woman he has ever been with. I guess this just shows his low self esteem. I think my husband would be with OW if she had a home. I try to explain to him that I think haveing some relaxation time is more important than haveing ever detail perfect. We have got in an argument because I did not put a glass in the sink after he did dishes. Yet sometimes dishes will sit in the sink for more than a day.

<small>[ July 30, 2004, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: Genia ]</small>

Well of course your husband isn't responsible for your emotions. Sometimes I wish I did have that power . . . to make someone be happy or sad, excited to be with me, by simply throwing a switch.

He does, however, contribute to environment where the emotional reactions are born. It is hard to happy and cheerful when some keeps dumping [censored] on your head and ruining your clothes.

I'm glad you called your attorney.

<small>[ July 30, 2004, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: Comfortably Numb ]</small>

LUV, I'm so sorry! ((((((((Hugs))))))) You will be fine. Sorry the house is YOURS! You have your children that YOU are still committed to. YOU didn't do any of this. So let him lie is his own bed. He will be miserable! (SP) He will continue to live the lies, and she needs to watch him. Oh and what kind of trust is she going to have for him. NONE, Trust me she will be watching him like a hawk and he will have NO freedom. If he cheated on you , and he doesn't see that he did anything wrong w/ distroying a family, then he is going to do it again. You know in your heart what you need to do. And God will give you the strenght to do it. Having a health, strong momma is what those kids need. Not a house full of tension! I'm praying that you keep up with your strength and faith in YOU!!! Keep you line in the sand!!! Don't move it. 5 years down the road you will see yourself once again the person you where and the OW is either be brought down like you are now or she will not be there. I've seem people that are alot like your H and seen what they have done to my friends and I feel for you and the fear you muct feel, but rely on the man that will be w/ you no matter what. GOD! Oh and another thing. Your kids are NOT going to care about how much time you spent cleaning the house but they WILL remember the GOOD times you make with them. So honey, I would have someone cleaning my house and cutting my grass and put that in your budget list for the attorney!!. Love them babies!
And we are here for you.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Hi Luv,

I was not trying to waylay your thread earlier. It just baffles me how much your husband is like my husband. Funny thing is they will pay for the loss. I think the loss will be harder on them than it is on us. Let's face it our husband's have low self esteem. They are weak and fallible for OW's manipulation. OW is selfish and does not care about our husband. They will have no where to turn. They will be lost without us. Maybe they will find somebody else to put up with their **** for a little while and so on and so forth. But do they see where they are headed. No they are happy right now and are not thinking of the futher when they cannot cake eat no more. We have tried to make them see this but they are blind.

PS: It is hard to leave so when you are ready, create an argument by asserting your needs. He will tell you how impossible it is. Then leave. Or we could write a Plan B letter if that is our intention and throw their clothes out while they are away and change the locks. Good Luck to you. I see you are getting tired of your husband's **** like I am. I see myself expecting less and less. I am depending on him emotionally less and less.

<small>[ July 30, 2004, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Genia ]</small>

LUV you have control-just kick him out and do PB that gives you the control and takes it from him and either way you win--you move forward and either he catches up or he doesn't and you are already headed in a healthy direction.

The house cleaning-love my house to be perfect but with us both working full time not time unless we don't want to do anything else on the weekends-so we spend 45 dollars every other week to have it cleaned-the major stuff-mopping, bathrooms etc and I pick up all throughout the week.

LUV, you need to do this, and be comfortable doing it. Dont do it out of anger. Tell him this is how we need to be and if not you will go ahead. Make your mark in the sand and see if he crosses it. And stick to your guns. It's so hard to get sucked back in when they give you one good day and then back to the other. But don't show him any anger, just be matter of fact and you (meaning him) did this A and OC and hurt this family and continue to do the same hurt over and over and this is not the way you can live. HE is not meeting your needs! I'm praying for you!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

Luv et al:

In MY immortal words:

"Boring women have immaculate houses."

Period. You need to have that stitched on a pillow on your living room couch - in plain view for all to see.

Once your wh is out of the house, he looses ALL say in how it's run (and that goes for the lawn, too). The only time he does have a say is if you're living in dog poo that hasn't been cleaned up in a week. If he doesn't like it, tell him to cry to OW about it because it's officially none of his business now.

- Kimmy

Hi Luv,

What Sunny said is sorta what I was trying to say. You know we can explain our needs very calmly and our husband's will blow up. So when you are ready, let your husband do all the lovebusting. You remain calm. When he looks back later and he is stuck with the selfish OW he will feel like such a fool.

Well, Nio then I am far from boring. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sunny, I can't wait for me to be 100% comfortable with this. I need to do it now or I will never get away from his grips. He has this hold on me. It's going to hurt to leave but I have do it. I am really not doing it out of anger but more of the need to survive. If I don't I think I will loose my mind.

I could tell him again what I want but it's a waste of my time, I think. He just sees me as being demanding and selfish, when it's really him that is being that way.

It's going to be a long weekend at my house. OW is gone all next week so I guess he will be hanging around the house all week. Oh joy, oh joy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />