Hi folks,<P>Brief summary: H had 7-wk physical affair w/Bar-fly. It ended upon his guilty conscience & confession. Went to therapy, AA, Alanon, church, read books...rocky recovery, but fairly successful. We are at almost the 2 year recovery mark. Marriage is at a good place. H is always home, accounts for time, very affectionate, quality time w/me & kids, gave up drinking. During first stages of recovery, OW gets a job at the gym where my H attends. My H quits gym and looks for another gym. After 9 months of her out of the picture, she acquires his work e-mail address from his co-worker and sends him letter to ask how he is doing. I immediately find out. He writes her "No Contact" letter. An additional, almost 1+ years pass, nothing strange or suspicious going on and trust is beginning to be rebuilt. It is obvious to outsiders who see us, that we are a happy couple & family.<P>Now, we are approaching the 2nd year mark of recovery. Here's what has happenned in the last 2 evenings:<P>2 nights ago, my H returned home from work. As he entered our home, he happily asked me, "Did you receive the card that I sent you from work?" I told him, "No, I didn't." He looks confused and says, "Hmmmm...I'll have to send another one again."<P>The next night:<P>I receive a new e-card from him. I notice that it was sent from a Hotmail account. I ask myself, "Why does he have a hotmail account?" I decide to snoop & I hack into this suspicious account.<P>What I found was that this account appeared to be 2 days old. There were hardly any e-mails in it, only copies of the cards that he sent (the 1st one that I supposedly never received and the 2nd one...the new card that I received). BUT what I also see is a card from OW (still unread) and an e-mail note from her.<P>Her e-mail note said that she liked the card that he sent and can't wait to see him again and that she loves him. <BR>I then, look at the copy of the card that he sent. The card that reads, "I'm thinking about you and this card is to let you know...I love you." This card does not start out by saying "To Survivor/NoTrust," or "To Barfly"...it doesn't even say it is from him. All that is read, is the body of the letter in this card. However, I notice that the card was sent to her e-mail address from his e-mail address.<P>I do not know what to think of all this, I am numb. I don't feel love, I don't feel hate, I don't feel pain, I don't feel anger, I just don't feel a thing!<P>I call him and calmly say, "I would like to file for legal separation. I hacked into your Hotmail account. I notice that you are corresponding with Barfly. You wrote that you love her, she wrote that she loves you. Apparently, you don't love me. If you did, she wouldn't again be in our lives, 2 years later. I have a job waiting for me if I move back home (out of state), I will take the kids & you can be with Barfly out in the open. There is no need to sneak around. I'm weary and I am not going to compete with a Barfly who is beneath me. She can have you & you can have her. I feel that I have done everything possible to restore our marriage. If after all I've/we've done to save/restore our marriage and this is the outcome, 2 years later, then I want out. I don't have to feel guilty and say that I didn't try. Let's start looking for a lawyer tomorrow. I'll look in the phone book for someone local. I would like a legal separation."<P>My H's reaction was frantic. For 1-1/2 hours, he was yelling, crying, trying to convince me that she means nothing to him, told me that he loves me more than ever, he never loved her, never told her he loved her, told me that if he had to live in a cardboard box, as long we were together, that would be the only thing that matters. He said that he loves how our marriage is, he loves our children, he would never do anything to harm or hurt us again, that he hates what he did 2 years ago, that everyday he looks into the mirror and can't believe what he put us through, that he can't even watch movies containing infidelity w/o feeling uncomfortable and guilty, etc. etc. etc.<P>He went on to explain that for a week, she sent e-mails to his work. He hadn't responded from work because the e-mails are monitored and that he doesn't want to get in trouble.<P>Finally, 2 days ago, he made up a hotmail account to write her a 2-sentence reiteration of what he wrote her over a year, "Do not contact me..."<P>He said that the next day, he saw the e-mail note that she wrote stating how she liked "the card" that he sent. He claims that when he read that, it confused him and hecouldn't figure out what she was talking about.<P>My H tried to convince me that apparently what was supposed to be MY card, was sent to her in error! Now tell me...how does that happen???!!!<P>I asked him, why didn't you tell me that she contacted you again in the first place? We had an agreement that if she contacts, then I should be notified. He replied, "I was afraid of how you would react. I was trying to protect you by handling it myself. I wrote her that I didn't want her to contact me. I thought that after sending that 2nd no contact e-mail, that she would just go away & you would never find out that she tried again."<P>Well, my H sat down, went into this hotmail account and wrote her again. This is what he wrote:<P>I'm writing this letter to advise<BR>you I do not want any further contact by you EVER, to include e-mails, phone calls, etc...and you will NEVER hear from me again.<P>You honestly mean nothing to me and never have.<P>The e-mail card you received was actually meant for my wife and sent to you in error.<P>I love my wife and she is the only person I love and will ever love.<P>Help! I'm so confused. I don't know what to think, how to feel. I am numb. How am I to analyze this? I need an outsiders perspective. I know that the kind folks of MB can help me...please offer your advice.<P>p.s. After my H sent that letter to her, he told me that he is concerned because of my reaction. He said that I am so calm and I act like I don't care and he is worried about that.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Survivor [aka_NoTrust] (edited January 31, 2001).]

Oh yeah....my H also told me, I don't feel it is right for us to give up. I love you and you are the only one who I want to share my life with. I will do anything that you want, just to show you that I mean it. I could never hurt you again. I saw what it did to you, 2 years ago, physically & mentally. I saw what it did to the kids. I would never put you through that again. You have the right to do whatever you want, but I'm hoping that you will not leave.<P><sigh...>

Wow,<BR>I am on my way to work, but just wanted to let you know I read this and am thinking of you. What a nightmare. I'm sure some of the people who have been through ongoing contact will give you some advice.<P>I guess my advice would be to just think about it for awhile and not make any rash decisions. Take some deep breaths.<BR>Lora

Survivor,<BR>I think that you handled it very well. What you told him was right on target for your situation...after 2 years of recovery, I personally doubt that any more Plan A or etc would be worth the time, and I don't think I could do it either.<P>I don't know how "your" card could have been sent to her, especially in a 2 day old account, what the heck was her address doing there? He screwed up. It sounds like he's horrified at his actions, but if you hadn't caught this...?<P>Is there any evidence that when she replied that his no contact email exists? I have no idea how hotmail works, never been there. But I think if he could show you that...in your shoes, I'd feel better. One of my doubts about the no contact letter was that a quick phone call..."I had to do that because of my wife" nullifies it.<P>It all comes back down to honesty, if he's lied to cover up his contact, then things haven't changed as much as you wish they had.<P>I'm unbelieveably heartsore for you.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Whatever is true, honorable, just, pure, lovely, gracious...think about these things." Phil 4:8

I am so sorry-<BR>If the card was an e-card you go to the site- you have to put the address in. I don't really believe that he put the wrong address in the spot. If he is trying to say he clicked on an address in his account- clicking the wrong one because he was sending her another no contact letter--have him show you how he did that-I think it would be impossible<BR>to send e-cards you have to enter the recipients address-- no way would you be typing in the wrong address--You get to view the cards before you send them...<BR>You worked so hard for years, taking a chance that the next 50 years would be worth it. I commend you for that ability. You are a very strong person. <BR>Have the strength to do what is right.<BR>If you do separate or divorce--know that you will have to be stronger to do that than to save your marriage-- s/d tear people apart -there is no good in the process<BR>May God carry your burden, lighten your shoulders, and give you peace.<BR>Love<BR>

I wanted to add one thing:<BR>In all of this time of recovery did you and your spouse come to an agreement of Honest--tell all, even if you think it would upset the other--that the lie would hurt more.<BR>I have finally gotten through to my husband that I need to know if a woman calls, says she has feelings, is in love with him, tries to kiss him..<BR>My father always told my mother:<BR>It is impossible to vow I will not fall in love with another, but you will be the second to know..<BR>Honesty- I was at least the 4th to know my H loved another--if I were the 2nd after him to know, we probably would have prevented the affair..<BR>Without honesty the marraige is based on what-Dishonesty---What marriage could survive on that foundation?

Oh Survivor...<P>Goodness. I am so dumbfounded by this. I don't even know what to say. {{{{{{{{Survivor}}}}}}}}}...<P>I wouldn't do anything rash. I know your mind is going a mile a minute in every direction possible. Is your H willing to let you monitor this email account with him?<P>I think it could be a horrific error that your card went to her. I am just trying to figure out why he thought he had to respond to her in the first place. Why not just delete the emails all together, come home and tell you? Why set up a hotmail account?<P>Damn it. Why can't our WS think before they act? Before acting on anything, they should put themselves in our shoes and "feel" what it's going to be like for us when we find out. OOOHHHH - I'm so angry! <P>Take it one step at a time. It sounds like he is being sincere in what he is saying to you. Do you feel that it is? Do your instincts tell you that? <P>I would get back to your counselor immediately. That would be the first thing I would do in this situation. Talk it out rationally, and calmly, with an outside source.<P>I mean, if he did come home that first day and say did you get my card...I would tend to believe that he did send it to her in error.<P>However, when you read that email from her, did it sound like they had been talking for more than just this latest contact that you found out about?<P>Oh God, my mind is racing now too. I am feeling your pain, Survivor, believe me, I am. I wish I had a good answer, or a good plan for you to implement.<P>Hang in there. Do what your mind and heart tell you to do, ONCE you've calmed down, and can look at this as rationally as possible.<P>Hugs to you my dear. Big ones. I'm sure there are more people on here that have had the ongoing contact thing, as Lora stated, that will be able to help you through this. Just know I'm here for ya. <P>--purplemag

Yes, we had an agreement that if this OW ever contacted him, he would tell me. I reminded my H of that agreement.<P>His response was, "I was afraid to tell you. I saw the way that you acted last time (Nov.1999), I was trying to protect you. I saw what it did to you physically...you couldn't eat, you couldn't sleep, you couldn't even function normally. I saw what it did to you mentally, you couldn't trust anyone, you didn't like yourself, you thought that there was something wrong with you, you never smiled. After all of our progress, I didn't want to regress to what it used to be like. I thought that I could handle it myself and then she would just go away. Obviously, I don't know how to handle this kind of situation."<P>UGH!!! Now I'm annoyed!<P>Purplemag...now this is the weird thing. In her e-mail to him, I sensed and got the feeling that she hadn't seen him or heard from him. That was the weird part!<p>[This message has been edited by Survivor [aka_NoTrust] (edited January 31, 2001).]

{{{{{{{{Survivor}}}}}}}}<BR>Gosh I hate that you had to have that feeling again. Whatever the reason for her getting that card....you wouldn't have had a shock if he had been honest.<BR>You know I am right beside you in this.<P>Now stop and slow down. You have both done a lot of work. You aren't ready to throw it away on this one finding. Just give it time to sink in.<P>The other day I printed up opdam's thread on how it feels to be betrayed. I put my H in a room with it and made him read. I told him that is how it feels every time that I get a new shock....not just the first discovery of betrayal. I told him I just wanted him to have a better understanding. This is why honesty is so important.<BR>Have you tried something like that with your H?<P>I will check in later.....thinking of you.

Oh, Survivor....I'm so very sad to hear of this latest news.<P>Your H, like mine, sounds like a master liar. We are 2+ years into recovery too, and it has been a slow process with many, many setbacks. (There is an OC, etc.) <P>For the several years my H was involved with OW he always was able to come up with a logical, loving explanation for every question I asked him when something would happen that did not seem "quite right" to me. Because he was (is) sooooo convincing, I trusted and believed him completely. To this day, I'm never certain about whether he is telling the truth about anthing, even though he swears his devotion to me and our marriage and seems to be working hard at recovery. <P>He did resume affair for a short time in our first year after DDay until I found out again. I was ready to end it then, but he swore he was recommitted to us and blah, blah, blah. I, of course, took him back and things have been somewhat different since. Even though it has been 18 months since DDay #2, I am still constantly on guard about everything. <P>I have come to believe that he falls into the "pathological" liar category. He, too, has promised that he will tell me if he and OW ever have any contact besides when we pick up/drop off OC. As far as I know, he hasn't. I repeat AS FAR AS I KNOW..<P>To maintain my sanity and to allow me to continue in this marriage, I have promised myself that if he ever again lies to me about anything related to OW for any reason (..just didn't want to hurt" you is his personal favorite reason), I'm moving on. That would confirm for me that he is not capable of being honest with me, and I won't accept any more of that in my marriage. <P>It seems to me that you have just learned that about your H too. <P>love, anniem

Survivor -<P>I feel really bad for you, but try not to do anything hasty. Personally, I, too, do not understand how he could send a ecard by accident to the OM - I agree with Crete - I would see if he could show you how its done. Mistakes can happen.<P>But, as a WS, one of the first things I did, upon confessing the affair to my H - was to delete any and all emails from the OM. I removed his address from all of my computer accounts, etc. . .So, it would have been impossible for me not to have typed in the address myself. So, in a way, I read your post and I kind of felt like "Well, at least I did something right" (as a WS that is).<P>The best thing that your H could have done - after the no contact letter was sent two years ago - would have been to delete any messages from the OW(without even reading them). I was in a similar position, where it seemed like the OM would just pop out of no-where and send an email. I ended up doing a second no contact letter - and now, any messages should I get will be deleted without opening.<P>I think if I were you, I'd have to go with my instincts on this one. I mean, I'd think about how things have been going for the past two years - have his actions shown you that he has been out of contact with the OW. If you do decide to let this go (don't slam me, just IF), then I would think that he should promise not to respond to her at all - not even to say bug off.<P>Again, he could always set up other email accounts, call the OW, whatever, but I don't know - mistakes can happen, it would just depend on how things have been going for the past two years. I definitely wouldn't rush into any decisions. Hang in there. Maybe you could even call a tech specialist with Hotmail and see if what your H says is possible.

Survivor, I think you assessed it correctly when you pointed out that he should've told you immediately when she resumed contact. Also, as SKM said, he should've deleted any messages from her wihtout reading them. Instead, he opened a secret account. <P>However, I do believe he was confused - it's like he warned you or gave you the clue you needed to catch him when he asked you if you got his card. <P>This is the old addiction thing. Our counsellor often said that ow was just like a bottle of booze sitting on a table in front of a drunk - a situation which should be avoided at all costs.<P>Your h wants you and the marriage. He just didn't handle temptation well. Others said get in to see a counsellor. This sounds like really good advice. I know that I could not handle this situation alone. I have often wondered just what my h would do if he received an that very tempting letter from ow out of the blue - I've obsessed about it so much that I have even considered sending one myself to see how he'd respond. This is a really rotten situation for you, but I am really proud of the way you have handled it so far.

survivor,<P>my heart goes out to you. This is, no doubt, probably every BS's worst nightmare. I can only imagine what you must be going through!<P>As for the card, you said that your H set up the email account to send her a no contact email after a week of hounding by her, right? Did you see a copy of this email when you looked in his account? There would be no reason for him to delete it as you did not know of the account's exsistance, so if you saw a copy of this no contact email in a "sent" folder in hotmail, then he could be telling the truth.<P>As for sending the card to the wrong person, I don't know. My H and I send each other a lot of e-cards through blue mountain and you physically have to type in the email addy, you can't select from a bunch of addys.<P>I would be EXTREMELY cautious! As soon as there is secrecy (she contacted me, but I didn't want to tell you because it might hurt you), there is the possibility that something is up. Especially if you two had an agreement to tell whenever she tried to contact him.<P>Whatever you do, think it through slowly before acting. <P>just my 2 cents

{{{{{{{{{{{{survivor}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>ouch.<P>I am so sorry you have to deal with this after all this time and your efforts.<P>no advice, just hugs.<P>go SLOW<BR>BREATHE<BR>lizzie

I don't know about office e-mail, but these free e-mails on the internet like yahoo have in the options the ability to BLOCK incoming e-mail from people you don't want to e-mail you..They get delete before they get to your account..<BR>No temptation to read, if its not coming through.<BR>Just wanted to point that out.

I haven't posted in a long time. But had to respond to you. My heart goes out to you...there are so many new names here but yours is one a recognize because I too am in recovery for about the last 1 1/2 years with semi-success. Please don't take any action while you are still emotionally upset. Give yourself some time to think things through. I too have said that I will leave my H, although to date I haven't and we have had many, many setbacks. The best advice I can give is to assess this situation carefully. I think the advice you received about finding out if it is actually possible to send an e-mail card by mistake is good. Although you and I both know that our gut instincts are usually the most accurate. Please let me know if I can help you in any way. My e-mail address is rustyjt1@aol.com. I am going through what you are right now only I found an interesting voice mail on my husbands cell phone. Please take your time in making any decisions.

When I read your post, I stopped breathng momentarily. I am so, so, so, so sorry.<P>He probably did not mean to send the e-card to OW. But, the only ways that I can see an e-card going to OW by mistake are the following:<BR>1. he has an address book on the e-card site, which has your e-mail address and OW's in it;<BR>2. he cut and paste an e-mail address into the e-card, which means he had cut and past OW's e-mail address from somewhere;<BR>3. he created the e-card as a reply e-card to something she sent to him, meaning to change the recipient to you and not actually making this change.<BR>In any of these cases, he clearly did not follow the Rule of Honesty.<P>I completely understand your reaction. I would be reeling, too, and devastated.<P>I agree with others that he needs to show you exactly how this e-card was sent to OW by mistake. At best, he was not honest with you.<P>My H has often relied on the "I did not want to upset you" exception to the Rule of Honesty. Unfortunately, this exception has sometimes been invoked to cover his tracks. So, I am immediately suspicious of this reasoning. But, we have had to go around and around on this issue, so your H and mine may genuinely be extremely thick about the Rule of Honesty having no exceptions, not ever.<P>Perhaps seeing your C and your minister/pastor or other religious leader a.s.a.p. would also help.<P>I wish there was something more I could do. I still can barely breath at the thought of your discovery.<P>zycb

I suppose it is possible that he could have copied her email address from the original account she had emailed him on, planning on pasting it into recipient field of an email from hotmail, then accidentally pasted it into an ecard. I am forever hitting paste and then realizing I am not pasting what I thought I was. But you'd think he would notice.<P>Hotmail doesn't automatically save messages in a sent folder, unless you check the box to have it do so, so not having a message in the sent folder doesn't mean anything.

Dear Survivor,<P> I am also trying to go out the door.I am so sorry ,after all you have been thru,to have this happen.Perhaps it is a good thing tho,it will help him stay on his course with more determination.<P> Love and Prayers,beth

Survivor,<P>I am so sorry. My heart droppped to the floor when I read your post. What to do with this? <P>You need the TRUTH. If it were me, and who knows - it may be someday... this is what I would do... I would hire a private investigator. I would take out a loan if I had to to pay for it. You have to have the truth. You can't live your life not knowing. Blind trust is out the window, as it is for most of us to a large degree. I am just so mad that this could still be happening to you and you need the truth. That's what I think you should do. Hire somebody to find out the truth and then you will at least know what you are dealing with. <P>If he is telling the truth then you will have that concrete evidence and you can rebuild without the constant nagging doubt. <P>I am praying for you tonight. <P>{{{{{{{{Survivor}}}}}}}}}}