This is sorta a continuation of my "sweet and sour" post.<P>Went to my son's first communion this morning (Saturday) with my wife. OM and family were not there - I guess his daughter had her first communion years ago from the looks of some of the kids. I'm not a Catholic - I don't know.<P>But this really struck me. Not the service - but the way my wife has adopted Catholicism. Raised a Methodist, she started going to the catholic church because OM and family are catholic - at least in name.<P>As we waited for the service to start, she explained how <son> had wanted some of his things blessed - including his rosary. I raised my eyebrows. She snapped at me - "What was that for?" "Nothing," I said. She went on to say that this is important for <son> and it'll be good for him. I responded that I hope he learns some valuable life lessons. What I couldn't ask was what in God's name is going on inside your head? You want <son> to have the benefits of what you think is a good Christian education, and yet you haven't seemed to see the hypocrisy of your actions.<P>I feel like asking her how she squares her new found faith with her continued lying, deception, and adultery? This is all so contradictory that all I can do is just grin and bear it and hope that someday she'll look in the mirror or God will really touch her. The Big Guy can be a real kidder sometimes.<P>Dave (WAT)<p>[This message has been edited by worthatry (edited April 28, 2001).]

WAT<BR>In my opinion, the problem is that your wife has "head" knowledge about faith, but no "heart" knowledge. She knows the rules and the details, but apparently has no personal relationship or experience with God to put them into use. She is putting her faith into religion and religion is useless without God at the center of it.<P>If your wife is really a Christian...meaning she has a personal relationships with Jesus Christ....then at some point God is going to get her attention. She can't run from Him forever. He loves her but He definitely doesn't love the sin in her life and He <B>will</B> deal with her.<P>My suggestion would be for you to begin praying daily for God to place someone in her life who will speak the clear, uncensored truth to her. Someone who she can't ignore and who God will use in her life. You might be surprised who God will use to do this...often it is the most unlikely person. Pray daily for that person, even though you don't know his/her name. Pray for their spiritual well-being and protection and that they would be available to God to be used as He sees fit.<P>Another suggestion....pray for your son. He is obviously old enough to make his own choices and to understand who God is and to hear His voice. Pray that He will see beyond your wife's sin and know the truth. Pray that you will be the person in his life who will be stable and mentally healthy. Pray that he will become the man God wants him to be and to not be scarred by his mother's behavior.<P>Try taking your eyes off of your wife and her actions. She is in the wrong...no doubt about it...but right now you can't do much to change it yourself. As I remember, you consider yourself a spiritual person but aren't involved in organied religion. I encourage you to really seek God in your own life. Seek His peace and His healing.....let God deal with your wife as He will.<P>------------------<BR>"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

The believing in god, being religious and having affairs stricks me as quite odd too. I remember that "Thou shalt not commit adultery" is one of the ten commandments, but many devote christians seem to be able to break that one along with their marriage vows.<P>My husband is an athestis but his OW was a devout catholic??? We separated after D-day but she went back to her husband, however she continued to sneak around and have sex with mine for three more months before I lowered the boom on her.<P>She bought my Husband a St Christophers (can you say 16) to "watch over him when she couldn't be there" - because she was at home with her husband and family. <P>She left church to sneak over to my H's house - have a quickie and go home to spend the day with her family.<P>I found it hysterical that a married Catholic woman involved in an extra marital affair would expect the Saints to watch over her married lover?<P>The affair is long over now but she sends her kids to Catholic school and makes it to church weekly?<P>It is absolutely laughable - if I were breaking one of god's commandments I would have enough respect to keep my sinning self out of his place of worship until I could hold myself up to his standards again.<BR>

Hi Dave,<P>Did you ever get to have that talk with the priest?<P>Acceptance in the sacraments for the first time, usually requires that the parish priest knows the probability that the child will be raised in the Catholic faith...<BR>for example... you just can't abritrarily baptize any infant as an 'attempt' to "save" them.<P>Do you know if this priest understands the situation between your W and the OM?... and how it impacts the "faith" raising of your son.<P>Is the exclusion of the sacraments(Reconciliation/Holy Eucharist) (assuming she has voluntarily excluded herself), going to impact the faith upbringing of your son?<P><B>HGBrawner</B> is right... there is little/no <B>heart</B> in her understanding this faith...<BR>...right along the lines of other cafetaria Catholics.<P>Do pray not just <B>for</B> your son...<BR>...but <B>with</B> your son.<P>I'll be praying for all of you.<P> <P>Jim

mrsaxxman<BR>Christians have no special protection or guard against falling into sin....all we have is the promise of God's grace and forgiveness if we come to Him asking for it and turn away from the sin. Note that just asking for forgiveness isn't enough...we must also repent, or turn from the sin.<P>Christians who fall into adultery are the same as non-Christians. They rationalize and justify their behavior and don't see the depth of the wrong until somehow the veil is pulled from their eyes. However, the harm that is done when a Christian falls into adultery is the damage to their witness to others. It takes much prayer and effort to restore that witness. We are blessed that God will restore those who fall, just as He did David after his sin with Bathsheba. God called David a "man after His own heart", but only after David recognized his sin and repented from it and then asked God's forgiveness. What God didn't do was take away the consequences of that sin. David's whole family bore those consequences.<P>Rather than judging Christianity or any religious denomination by the actions of a few of the members, judge it by Jesus. He never sinned or let anyone down. We humans will never reach that level of perfection this side of heaven, but we are called to spend our days focusing on Him and working on our relationship with Him, striving to be more like Him. His grace is what covers us when we fall short.<P>------------------<BR>"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

To add to HGB's thoughts......Throughout all four gospels,Jesus said many times "follow Me". Note,He did not say, "follow my followers". Do not look to those who call themselves Christians as the example to follow,you will sooner or later be disappointed,for we all fail. Look to the Lord,for He will never fail you and is our perfect example.<P>Dave, I think I recall you saying that your son had only just begun his religious studies to prepare him for receiving the sacraments.Am I recalling correctly? Usually the study period before making this sacrament is 2 years for children who attend CCD. I am just wondering how it would be possible for your son the receive this sacrament if he had just started his preparation classes? Is it possible that W deceived the priest and church in some way? <p>[This message has been edited by mthrrhbard (edited April 28, 2001).]

Dave,<P>I just don't know how you keep biting your tounge & not let your wife have it.<P>Except for the 1st few months after my D-day my H has continued going to church, we changed congregations before we moved. I thought it was important for him to be reminded of what he had always believed. But he can/will twist things around to justify what he has done, in the long run I think I might have caused more harm to my OS by going this path. I think it is very confusing for children to see the parents that they know are sinning continuing to attend church like faithful Christians.

I can never understand people like this either. If I were having an A I could never sit in a church and pretend to be a good Christian. I'd be afraid of lightning bolts striking me dead for my hypocrisy. I have a friend whose W was having an A with a MM. She was also embezzling money from her H's company and another company she worked for. During that time she was a Catholic Sunday school teacher. After my friend divorced her she fought the annulment (which the church did grant him) due to her "religious beliefs".

HG<BR>please recognize that I meant HER behaviour was odd to me - I would think that while purchasing a ST Christopher's it would occur to the religious meaning such a symbol has and recognize that what you are doing is wrong therefore asking the saints to protect your lover is also hyprocritical.<P>I know many many good christian people. <P>I also understand that repentance is god's duty however those who repent must also change their ways - I never saw her doing that<P>In fact, I believe she would still be carrying on wiht my husband behind everyone's back if my H didn't have the fog lift from his eyes and come home.<BR>

HG<BR>please recognize that I meant HER behaviour was odd to me - I would think that while purchasing a ST Christopher's it would occur to the religious meaning such a symbol has and recognize that what you are doing is wrong therefore asking the saints to protect your lover is also hyprocritical.<P>I know many many good christian people and realize that the actions of her do not equate to the actions of most Catholic people. What is laughable to me is she is a Catholic and my husband is an Athesist (sp?) that's how much talking they did before they "feel in love". <P>I also understand that repentance is god's duty however those who repent must also change their ways - I never saw her doing that<P>In fact, I believe she would still be carrying on wiht my husband behind everyone's back if my H didn't have the fog lift from his eyes and come home.<BR>

to fairydust:<BR>if we were all "Good" Christians, free from sin and hipocrisy, why would we need churches at all?<P>It's always been my understanding that church exists to bring comfort to the sinners...not the "perfect" Christians. I, for one, am glad my church has an open door for those of us who have sinned and fallen short of the grace of god. And, if we are honest, we all know which group we fall into.

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Thanks all for the responses.<P>HGBrawner - I understand everything you said. God is already helping me - how could I sustain two severe losses within a year without Him? I am well along in finding my peace and healing. But I cannot turn my back on my wife. She chose an escape instead of healing. In a way, I guess I should be thankful she's playing good Catholic - there's a chance someone may reach her.<P>Jim - I have not yet spoken to the Priest, but I eyeballed him during my son's first communion the other day. I doubt he knows anything about my W and OM unless OM's wife has revealed it. I plan to contact him this week. Thanks for the prayers.<P>Dave

[QUOTE]Originally posted by calla30:<BR>[B]to fairydust:<BR>if we were all "Good" Christians, free from sin and hipocrisy, why would we need churches at all?<P>It's always been my understanding that church exists to bring comfort to the sinners...not the "perfect" Christians. I, for one, am glad my church has an open door for those of us who have sinned and fallen short of the grace of god. And, if we are honest, we all know which group we fall into.>>><P>My problem lies with the people who are such hypocrites as to be having affairs and still proudly present themselves as good christians. People who have no remorse over what they have done/are doing. Like the woman teaching Sunday school (and morals and Christian beliefs) to children while boffing someone else's H behind her own H's back. If I found out my child was being taught Sunday school by an unrepentant adulteress I would be VERY unhappy.

Well...<P>...and then there's my ex who was introduced to the OW (his #5) by pillars of the church... too bad she was still married to H #3 ... and they pushed and pushed them together, and she circled like a vulture waiting for the (our) marriage to end... <P>Oh, and they "prayed" before they did *it* which really made me puke.<P>...and he would go to church to be with God... uh, yeah, and I have some swampland in the desert to sell ya...<P>Yes, it still ticks me off, even after the divorce. I hate hypocrasy.<P>In theory, I agree with <B>Calla</B>: we have, after all, ALL sinned and fallen short... <P>But I also agree with <B>fairydust</B>, I wouldn't want an unrepentant person teaching Sunday School or leading people at all, for that matter.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited April 30, 2001).]

An older priest, "Father Joe" at the Catholic H.S. i attended used to refer to the commandments that come into play here as "the fighting 69!"<P>6. Thou shalt not commit adultery.<P>9. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife.<P>Pretty wild from a priest, eh?<p>[This message has been edited by catamount82 (edited April 30, 2001).]

I don't know about the churches you all attend, but in mine, if someone is found to be in this type of sin they are removed from their place of service. This applies to couples who live together without being married as well as affairs or other situations.<P>They are not thrown out of the church or excommunicated...I'm not sure what we Baptists call it ...but they are counseled with and a loving discipline is applied. This is God's call to all churches.<P>worthatry<BR>I'm not suggesting that you completely abandon your wife, but that you give her over into God's hands and allow Him to deal with her as He sees fit. I would absolutely pray for Him to place people in her life who will speak the truth to her. But I believe she may well be too caught in her sin to hear you. Certainly continue to profess your love and your desire for restoration, but my guess is that she just isn't going to hear you regarding her relationship with the om. By suggesting you take your eyes off of her, I mean that you concentrate more on praying for God to work in her life than you trying to reach her yourself.<P>------------------<BR>"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by new_beginning:<P>But I also agree with <B>fairydust</B>, I wouldn't want an unrepentant person teaching Sunday School or leading people at all, for that matter.<P>Kinda gives you a different view of old Bill Clinton, doesn't it?<BR>T<P>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited April 30, 2001).][/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

WAT,<P>I have to agree with HGB's last post. I felt like I was spinning my wheels trying to reach my H. It wasn't until I changed my focus that things started to happen. It was so "strange" - the expereinces that my H began to have before recommitting to the marriage.<P>cleo

I understand HGB's point. My Plan A has not been a pursuit or agressive, it's been more passive. She's seen my improvements, and commented on them, although not for quite a while. So I just remind her of my love and try to be a friend whenever we're together.<P>Cleo - can you elaborate a bit on your H's experiences?<P>Thanks,<BR>Dave