I'm posting this in response to something Lora wrote on the "recovery" board. <BR>------<P>I was just reading your posts here....and saw an interesting thing that I don't think I have ever seen before. <P>I may be missing it here...but in some ways...you are in a place much like your husband, or other WS...who can't seem to make up their mind. <BR>"Fence sitting" is what they are often said to be doing...and it frustrates the folks here and other BS because the WS seems paralyzed with indecision.<P>I know something about this place. And I think pain plays a big role in keeping us locked to the 'fence'. Perhaps you can relate with your own predictament.<P>You can't make up your mind to move on...without him...or stay hopeful and linger there waiting. Either way...you are surrounded by pain...and fear. Fear...of the pain that awaits you to take such a drastic step forward...alone...and all that comes with that journey.<P>On the other hand...you are already in pain where you are at...and fearful of what may or may not happen with your husband. <P>For many of us WS's, (I'll speak for myself now)...there was an incredible amount of pain and fear...of breaking contact with the OW (EA) because she and the friendship provided such a place of seemingly safe comfort. To end that relationship, meant I had to face the magnitude of my sin...the exisiting problems in the marriage...a life, for the time being outside of that 'safe refuge' I found in that friend. And it is just a cold, dark, and lonely place to walk in. <P>There is much talk about men's indecision and inability make hard decicsions. But...when you are surrounded by pain...and loneliness and fear...it is easier to understand. And I really see you being in a similar place which is interesting to me. I guess it's like whatever road you chose...it all appears to be dismal...at least at that time. Perhaps looking at the long term goal or objective...and not focusing on the other stuff surrounding us...is the thing we have to do. <P>I don't know...maybe I'm off base here...but just kind of struck me reading your words...that from the 'other side of the tracks'...you are feeling and experiencing the same thing many WS do in that 'valley of indecision.'<P>I'm sorry and empathize with you Lora. It is not a pleasant place to be...<P><p>[This message has been edited by lighthouse (edited August 29, 2001).]

Wooops....my mistake....it was Lora who posted the thread in which I wanted to comment on. Sorry....

Ah...Lighthouse (love that name - a friend at work belongs to the lighthouse club even has a jacket showing all the lighthouses on the east coast)!<P>You may have meant this for Lora, we are in the same boat. So I hope she doesn't mind if I benefit from your words of wisdom also. <P>You have hit a cord with your statement. Yes, the BS's do get caught up in this indecision whirlpool created by the WS's indecision. The only thing is that the BS does not have an OP to run off and get 'private' counseling to pull away from the marriage. So the struggle is from a different direction. <P>Common point? Both are struggling. Different objective? There is not an OP for the BS pulling them to leave their marriage. The struggle for the BS is within. Is it harder? Sometimes. After a while a deep internal struggle appears. <P>So while I agree that both can struggle and fence sit, the direction is different. The BS can not run away from themselves. The BS has to face it and make a decision. In my case the decision is being forced upon me due to my health. Should it have been made before? Yes. Could it have been? Yes. Why didn't I. I wanted to give it my all. Did I? Yes. Now I am ready. But the cost was my health. Can it be fixed? Yes. Very near brush with death so I must caution and don't recommend people to let themselves take it to this limit. I am a stubborn ol goat, I guess and refused to give up until there was no more to give. <P>But today for the first time, I am feeling stronger. With or without H, I am feeling stronger. Why? Because I did what many suggested. What I knew was right. I am learning to let go. Where that takes me, I am not sure. But I am learning to let go. The tension in my neck is still very strong. It hurts. I am used to that. <P>Yes, I no longer want to sit on the fence. I just need OW out of my life. I know that is where I need to be. I am working to make that happen. <P>I feel pity for the WS that have a strong OP pulling them away from the real life. I pray I never fall into that trap. <P>One can not live life in a state of indecision. I know I can not. Yet, it is forced upon us at times (or feels like it). Or we can acknowledge it, get out from under it and move on. Very hard thing to do. Eventually we do get to that point. Either with our Ws's or not. <P>Thank you for your thoughts. You have really given me something to ponder today. It is helping me heal. <P>Now I will send a notice to Lora to read your post. <P>Mahalo,<BR>L.<BR>

Hi Orchid...<P>Glad my post didn't sound that confusing.<P>I've been thinking more...about this paralyzing mode we get into at times....unable to make a decision. I suppose in reality...for the WS...to "not choose"...is a choice in itself.<P>The Old Testament prophet, Elijha, asked the Israelites: "How long will you halt between two opinions...choose this day whom you will serve!"<P>When a WS remains 'caught in the middle'...then in effect he has made a choice already by 'not chosing' his spouse.<P>And Fear...really does play a role in this, does it not?<P>Fear...is simply a response to unanswered questions, or not being able to see and understand everything. I can only imagine the torment you have faced and dealt with.<P>Yes...you are right in the fact you don't have an OP in the picture. So I'm not sure what you mean when you write that you are 'working to get the OW out of your life?" Seems like that should be your husbands job...if that is what he really wants.<P>Also...I would not think that the OP is always intentionally working against the marriage purposefully. I know in my case...she has never tried to pull me away from my wife. We both really just got 'tangled' in this together and struggled for a very long time trying to get 'untangled'. I can't imagine what that would be like to have to deal with what you speak of in that area.<P>I guess what we have to do in cases like you find yourself in, is study the 'hand you've been dealt', consider your options...then choose the one you think is best for you in the long run. Life can sure deal us some unpleasant hands at times. I'll never understand why some get worse hands than others. <P>I do believe that God's promises are true...and that His upmost desire is to give us a hope and a future...to bring us into a place of blessing and not harm and sorrow. I pray that you will find that place...and soon. He also promised that even though weeping endures through the night, joy will come in the morning. <BR>May you have many more sunrises in your life that will brighten your day and bring healing to your soul.

Hi Lighthouse,<P>No you were not confusing in the least!<P>I would like to address your question first:<BR>"Yes...you are right in the fact you don't have an OP in the picture. So I'm not sure what you mean when you write that you are 'working to get the OW out of your life?" Seems like that should be your husbands job...if that is what he really wants."<P>What I mean is that I am not in an A so I personally don't have an OP working with me and against my marriage. The next statement about wanting to get the OW out of MY life is that her presence (her calls, her pages, her conversations, her physical contact, all forms of communication) with any family member that lives in my household will touch my life. I have evidence of that. When the OW called and paged (even though no one picked up her call), it greatly distressed me. Just knowing that she was able to reach out and 'touch' a family member disturbed me. Ruined my day even. Nope don't want that. Don't need that. <P>If she does the samething to H but he is not living in our home, then it is his business and I will not feel the effects (maybe some but not directly). Someone has been calling and hanging up on my home phone and on my work phone. Can't trace it (private caller). Guess I could if I tried but it has been sporatic (about 5 times in 2 weeks). <P>I can handle a meeting with her to end it all. I can muster the courage for that if I know the agenda. But being kept in the dark and out of the loop, it not safe for me. It is not healthy for me. <P>I do believe in God's promises as true. He will bring about his promises for a new heavens and new earth regardless of whether we individually choose to participate or not. If we individually choose not to participate then the consquence is our decision. <P>Yes, I know that our actions make the decision for us. I am not exempt from that. I am not asking H to do more than I would do. I am not asking him to do less than anyone else should do either. I am not asking him to do anything at this moment. I am only working towards getting the OW out of my life. <P>Whether my H chooses to be a part of that or not, I can no longer influence his decision. It must be his decision. That is where I am settling down to. It has taken this stubborn ol goat a while to reach that point but here I am. <P>Thank you for your soothing words. They are a healing for me now. <P>L. <P>

Hi Lighthouse and Orchid,<BR>I answered on the other post, funny, but it seems Orchid and I both answered in similar fashion.<P>Lighthouse, why is it that most of the men on her who post and explain themselves seem to hold their OW so blameless. I can buy the intial falling in love from freindship start to an affair, but once someone tries to end it there is alot of manipulation that goes on. Unless your OW stoped all contact when asked and was never heard from again then she is actively acting against the marriage. I know my H is not blameless, but I do beleive she is the one to not give up, to stop by and see him at work, and now they are back at it.<P>Orchid,<BR>I have been getting the hang up calls too. Even when H was at work, so not just looking for him. Last time I said Gladys is that you? Stop calling here. Then they hung up. I also told H I was getting them could it be her or her H and he said he hoped not, he would find out. And they immediatly stopped after that. <P>Lighthouse, <BR>So I am debating bringing up the calls to my H, telling him they have staopped but I am afraid of OW because she is so agressive, even coming to the house. Its like she thought she owned him and had the right to do it. That I feel violated that she feels she can invade my home like that.<P>What do you think? I am afraid I am partially doing it for me, to protect myself, but to get a little dig in there about her too.<P>Lora

Hi Lora.<P>Let me see if I can answer your questions.<P>I can only speak from my own experience and in some ways, I believe my case is somewhat unique. (Don't we all say that? )<P>The woman I became entangled with lives about 600 miles from me in another state. So at best...it is a strong EA.<P>Neither of us ever...considered leaving our marriages. It was not that we would have not loved the chance to share a life together...we just both had enough 'sense' to know it would be doomed. It has been an entanglement of hearts that has proven to be difficult to 'undo'. <P>Neither one of us...has ever tried running down our spouses, or each other's. We both have a very clear understanding of how we ended up here. Getting out has proven to be more of a challenge. The friendship started out pretty innocently...and we grew quite comfortable and 'safe' with each other. Things at home at grown a bit stale...all the usual stuff...married to spouses who were not big communicators...we felt isolted and alone...both of us were vulnerable...and we crossed over those 'lines'.<P>We lost count over the number of times we have tried and failed in ending the relationship. We have never wanted any further harm for each other. But when you are just the 'click of a mouse' away...or a simple phone call...it is like your life is surrounded by each other. I'm not looking for anyone to console me here...just admitting a reoccuring weakness we both share.<P>One thing we both have always said is that we felt 'fortunate'...that it was 'each other' that we got involved with. No 'fatal attraction' syndrome here...neither of us wants to interfere more than we already have....we continue to pray and try to do the right thing. (By the way...we are not in contact anymore and took greater measures to help us). <P>So I can see where getting calls at home...harrasment and such...would be a living nightmare for many people. Like I said...if there was any 'good fortune' in my case...I got involved with someone who despite her own weaknesses and failings, I have never felt endangered or threatened by her, nor has she with me. It is just a pitifully sad and tragic place we allowed ourselves to get involved with.<P>Another thing we both have admitted to was inspite of all the times we have professed a "love" for each other, we realize that if we really did 'love' each other...then we would do what was best for each other...and end the relationship. We continue to prove that care we have for one another in doing just that.<P>I would agree you have every right to feel 'violated' because of what you are experiencing yourself. I wish I had more answers to a lot of this. It has been a painful life lesson that I'm still learning. And believe me....I would have never believed or thought...that I would ever be in this position. Not that I thought I was invincible...I just thought....I was stronger than this. <P>In case you are wondering...I did confess to my wife sometime ago about the relationship...went to counseling...did all I know to do. But the 'pull' of the friendship and the intensity of the dependacy of the frienship was just too much for me...and the contact continued afterwards. Once I feel like I am back on solid ground again, I know I will confess to my wife again...the full extent of my involvment. But there is no way I can do that at this time. <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lighthouse:<BR><B>When a WS remains 'caught in the middle'...then in effect he has made a choice already by 'not chosing' his spouse.<P>And Fear...really does play a role in this, does it not?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>A resounding yes from me! One of the hardest things to overcome, in my daily life, is the fact that my wife still hasn't "chosen" me. She hasn't "chosen" the OM either, but she sure as heck hasn't chosen me, since she still maintains the A.<P>I agree with lighthouse... that is a choice. She hasn't chosen me, so that is rejection. I'm not good enough, and her confidence in being happy with me is not strong enough to make that choice.<P>So what a BS has to deal with, on a daily basis, is this constant "rejection", and hope beyond all hope that soon that choice will be made.