Question about what I consider Seductive Dress:<P>Brief history – I caught my W in A's with two guys that were virtual strangers & went on from 7/20/00 to 01/17/01. She is 48 & they were 32 & 36. 20 years ago I caught her in an A. <P>She has been in counseling since late January & I have had 4 sessions & we are now focused on couples counseling, of which we have had three sessions. In terms of boundaries, the counselor has postponed discussion about my feeling about how my W dresses.<BR>She knows I feel uncomfortable about is how she many times dresses. This became a topic not long after what I now know was when she started the A’s – skirts become shorter, outfits tighter & she began her collection of Victory Secret Bra’s & thongs. I never complained about the underwear! This summer for example, I expressed that I did not feel it was appropriate for her to go to the public pool by herself wearing a bikini. Summer is over & so is that!<P>My W & I were watching an HBO sitcom called what married men think. The jist of this was that the guy’s wife is attractive, but at his work is a young attractive lady that he develops sexual feeling for. This girl at work would naturally be presented in a Sexy, Seductive light—that’s the point, right. As it happens, that day my W happened to be wearing a very similar style of wear (again, this has caused me anxiety for a year now, even before I knew of the A’s. This change of dress happened to start shortly after her A’s began (dah, go figure!). This is very tight fitting pants, cut low to the hips, with tight fitting top cut to where it stops at the very top of the pants & any leaning forward or stretching up of the arms her mid-drift shows. My W always says that is not provocative, just stylish. In one particular scene the seductive girl at work was wearing an outfit, almost identical in style to what my DW was wearing that same day. I could not resist trying to make a point. <P>I made a comment that “the girl at the office is obviously wearing seductive cloths, similar to what you wear.” I know this antagonistic, but I could not think of more tactful way to present it. She of course got upset & said the way this girl was dressed was not seductive, she just had a good figure & you can’t hide that! That a girl size 12 or 14 could wear same cloths, but it would not look as good. I said I don’t know that the size has as much to do with than the fact that from a guys point of view it was seductive. I then tried to reason with her that isn’t that what the show is trying to show, that the Wife at home who is attractive and slim as well, but is not seductive like the girl at work. The wife at home is not dressed the same way. She started yelling & I told her I did not want to get into argument, but wanted to at least let her know what I thought of the situation. It actually ended in less tension & less of a battle than many other discussions about this & we talked in a sensible tone on other topics shortly after explosions, which is an improvement from past experiences.<P>She made a point that my best friends 20 & 24 year old daughters dress in similar fashion & does that make them a slut. I said that it may not be right but when a lady in her 40’s dresses that way it sends a different message than when a person in their 20’s. I said I was not saying it meant the person was necessarily a slut, but that let’s not BS here, it sends a message! She of course did not agree – did not comment. We have been working on concept that she always has to win arguments & she is trying to back off & give me some respect, to at least listen & not be so degrading as she has tended to be.<P><BR>I had tried to establish a boundaries that a tank top with string straps was a bit too much for me – my W tried to say there was absolutely no sexual connotation to this kind of top. That is until it cam up in counseling & my DW then said I was saying anyone that wore those would be considered a slut – she makes example of young girls & our friends daughters here. I try to reason with her that a person age is a factor here as well. There are different expectations and connotations with age.<P>Our Counselor has said she wanted to postpone the issue of dress until later – I don’t know if she means next week or next month? It has been two weeks since our last session & last night was my first stab at the topic. <P>Would I have been better off to not bring up this topic or do you have any ideas how I might have brought this up differently?? I am thinking to save this for counseling next week.<P>Peace be with you!<BR>HH

I hardly know what to say HH.<P>40's is not old. Why does she have to dress like an old woman?<P>She is exactly right. Low hip hugging pants, and cropped or shorter tops is the STYLE right now. If she has the figure -- she should wear it. Same thing with tank tops -- even with bra straps showing -- its the STYLE. <P>It may look foolish on an older woman -- but it doesn't sound like that applies to your wife. It sounds like she is an attractive, young looking woman. Do you think she looks foolish? Or is it just that she looks sexy and you don't want her to?<P>You told me before that you don't harp on this with her. I sincerely hope that you are only obsessing here on this site. Because you are driving ME crazy with this obsession over her clothes.

Sorry Lexxxy, I have to disagree.<P>I think this needs to be brought up in counseling. I think POJA would be a great help here. If HH is uncomfortable with the way his W is dressing, this obviously is a problem at least in his eyes. So I think they need to come to some kind of agreement on when and where these cloths are appropriate. <P>I responded to HH's last thread on this subject a couple of months ago. I can't disagree with his valid concerns, coming from a BS view on this. My wife has some clothing that isn't in bad tast, but is just a little too sexy for her to be wearing without my being present. Funny she just went to the store just now and we had this very discussion. She was wearing a very short pair of shorts and a matching shirt that is very "form fitting" not real tight... When she bought the outfit we agreed that it would only be worn with me there. Before she went to the store she asked if I would be Ok with her wearing it to the store. I didn't mind. <P>I know that sounds very controlling, but I wouldn't have a problem if she doesn't like what I am wearing. It all comes down to both parties in the marriage agreeing on what makes the other comfortable, and not doing things that make the other uncomfortable.<P>I always refer to swinging. Some couples find it A.Ok to have sex with other people outside of marriage. They agree on it. Well that wasn't our case and that is why we are having so many problems...I never inteded either of us to have sex ever with other people. It all comes down to agreeing on what is acceptable behaivior within the marriage. Just my thoughts...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lexxxy:<BR><B>I hardly know what to say HH.<P>Because you are driving ME crazy with this obsession over her clothes.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Lexxxy,<BR>My dear, I was actually thought I was getting over the cloths thing, just had a relapse, sorry if I offended! <P>She is 48 (as compared to 40 -- but that's not old either, I know!) & she does look good, real good in fact -- I just have this feeling she may be seeking the attention getting from other guys a bit much, but it may be just be me.<P>Even though she was very active in calling and pursuing these guys, she says she does not think it was her fault, that she was a victim -- they were preditors - She described a lot & it was very lustful, very Lustful! She even goes a srep further & says it is my fault for her increased interest in sex because we watched an old porno I had & we would watch "Real Sex" on HBO.<P>At any rate, I realise I am walking a tight rope, a catch 22 of sorts in that if I rage it could cause her to justify further acting out. If I let it go, she may easily find other rationalization to yield to temptation - of course perhaps no other man will find her appealing enough to make serious pass?? <BR>I wonder if Wives knew of my W's lustful history & the way she dressed, how they would feel about having their husbands work closely with her? Just a wondering thought.<P>I hope you find some peace in your situation. You sound like a caring person. Even thogh you bust my bricks I like your sponk!<BR>Peace be with you!<BR>HH<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Hurrian Hoosier (edited September 27, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SEM:<BR><B>Sorry Lexxxy, I have to disagree.<P>It all comes down to agreeing on what is acceptable behaivior within the marriage. Just my thoughts...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>SEM,<BR>Thanks again for keeping up with me. I'm sure I've turned many away with my semmingly endless thing with the cloths.<P>If I saw her agreeing to work on Marriage enrichment stuff it would perhaps ease my mind a bit about these sometimes seemingly trival matters.<P>For example, in our last C session, two weeks ago she agreed to call me at noon each day. She only missed one day the first week. We were away together last week and she had a migraine Monday & Tuesday. Yesterday & today she was back at work at both days called me around 4:00 to discuss plans for the evening. Both times I have said that she must have been really busy & she has emphasized her business, but she never hinted that she was sorry she did not call at noon -- it's like she has no knowledge of our little agreement. <P>I have said nothing. There seems to be a message here that she is most interested in her feelings & my feelings are a very distant second. ?? Not really upset, Just venting!<BR>Thanks again!<BR>HH<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>You told me before that you don't harp on this with her. I sincerely hope that you are only obsessing here on this site. Because you are driving ME crazy with this obsession over her clothes.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>and how!!<P>HH, from a guy who finds the attire of the typical Bishops wife extreamly seductive (Really) long pleated skirts and covered toe heels with hair in conservative style YEOWWW, if the woman is attractive and confident, even pure i am pulled at as though she was whispering in my ear!<P>the point is that no matter what she wears she sounds like she would attract the looks of others, my wife who is nearing 40 came home from a all day swim meet where she sat in the sun in her baggy jean sweat pants and t-shirt complaining about how there were guys just obviously staring at her, she couldnt believe they were looking.. she is just a beautiful girl no matter what. <P>i hear what your issue is, i wish i could give you peace around it, but know that from the stand point of men seeing her as attractive and apreciating good luck. i dont really believe that its the dress that bothers you though, its that you believe her spirit is approachable right now, almost inviting. and to be very blunt, that isnt about what she is wearing, thats about her actions... concentrate on what she is doing not what she is wearing.<P>good luck

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chazbutler:<BR><B> and how!!<P>... concentrate on what she is doing not what she is wearing.<P>good luck</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I hope you don't mind me referring to you as the "Chazman," cause you sound like a man after my own heart. You are right & I am slow to recognize this, but have patience, I feel I'm making progress, believe it or not.<BR>I still think the dress can make it obvious she is asking for some special attention, but I won't argue with your basic point, it is the attitude that is most crtical!<BR>If she were more agreeabloe to work on Marriage enrichment things it would help!<BR>Thanks for your input! I appreciate your sense of style & humor (I think you were kidding about your turn ons?!)<BR>Peace be with you!<BR>

I remember after I had my first child... me and my H went out and I put on the typical, for me, at that time "hoochy mamma" outfit. And my husband said "that doesn't look like a skirt a mother would wear". Well I had a great body then too but I tried to tone it down a little. My skirts used to be Way-up-there... then for a couple years they were mid-way between my knees and Way-up-there. Now they are just above the knee. I don't have the same body I once did...but I still got-it-going-on! I am 33 - size 10 (sigh... not totally happy about that).<P>The issue here is that she has a history and you are trying to be in recovery and rebuild trust and I don't think she is doing that. But you can't MAKE her do anything. It sounds like she is gonna do it NO MATTER what you say. I think if she did other things to rebuild your trust that the dress would not be such a bother. Like if she had on this sexy-thang outfit but couldn't keep her hands and eyes off you - that might be different than her putting on the sexy-thang outfit and wanting to leave you at the party so she could go rub elbows (or something else) with other guys.<P>I hear you... I am sorry for your pain... The problem is within her and her motives for dressing this way. It is not something you can fix or negotiate, it is something she is going to have to come to the realization herself. The more you push it the more she is going to resist. sigh... I hate this game. Anyway, you just need to make a decision... is this something you can live with or not? If it is not then set some boundaries and be ready to followthrough with the NOT being together. If it is something you CAN live with then stop talking about it and let it go. <P>IMO what she is doing is disrespectful to you but you are doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result - insanity!<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hurrian Hoosier:<BR><B> I hope you don't mind me referring to you as the "Chazman," cause you sound like a man after my own heart.</B><P>you have no idea how much i get that it may as well be my name!<P><B>You are right</B><P>why cant everyone just say this and stop? <P><B>If she were more agreeabloe to work on Marriage enrichment things it would help!</B><P>i hear you, it takes me basically telling her its over before she moves an inch!! and anything that would count as an intentional act at enrichment is viewed as an unnatural act! jeez what id give to go to a weekend retreat with the wife!<P><B>Thanks for your input! I appreciate your sense of style & humor</B><P>thank you, your welcome i do try to keep it light, ive really been riding a couple of people around here kinda hard of late but more often than not i enjoy having fun even while working on building my and others marriages.<P><B> think you were kidding about your turn ons?!)</B> <P>oh no i am not, the bishops daughter was always the greatest date! <P>i really do love that style of dress, the polish and finish of it, i like the buisness suit even the pant suit if its stylish big time!! i definatly spend more time in intreague with women who are downtown dressed for work then the ones shopping at the mall in their tank tops. maybe it because i have more in common with them? what ever of course i love the pleated skirt and hose and my wife wears the low cut jeans and halters... go figure! she looks good but what id give for nylons and a skirt!<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

I have the same problem with my wife. It's hard to know their intentions. Perhaps they just love the attention. I have to sometimes put my foot down and say no I am not taking you to wherever we are going if dressed like that. Of course there is also the other extreme with wives who dress like "pigs" (sorry - my wife's expression) and who don't even comb their hair. So having a beautiful wife is a mixed blessing. The point that she had an affair makes you ten times more sensitive now. She should build up the trust but doesn't. She is not taking responsibility for her actions of the past. I don't understand some of the ladies thinking. Sometimes ladies act and dress in ways that obviously attract the other guys but the ladies just say they are not interested in attracting men but just want to look good. For the husband it is good having a good looking wife but then there is also the bad part that every other guy will also chase your wife even if they know she is married. Being married is perhaps an even better challenge for a guy that wants to have a relationship with your wife. I doubt if you can convince your wife of anything. You might just have to trust her and if another affair happens then decide to dump her. It is also true that some ladies are very attractive no matter what they wear. Once a lady is too old then suggestive clothes start to look ridiculous. There is this 60 year old lady that walks around town here with dresses short enough that you can see her underwear and low enough at the top that you can see half the breast. Either she is mentally ill or is a prostitute. That's the message she sends out. Your wife is still young so people won't be getting that message yet. Maybe she is trying to hand on to her youth forever or at least as long as possible. Maybe concentrate on doing stuff together that she enjoys so she doesn't feel the need to attract all the other men. Well in Afghanistan the women get into big trouble for showing even their ankles while in some countries totally nude is OK. In theory a woman should wear what she likes and what ever fits into our societies decency standards. Except there are too many wierdos around that will stalk a desireable woman until they succeed to seduce her. If you think she is sending out a wrong message then maybe some other men can tell your wife this since she doesn't believe you anyway. Maybe one of your friends should make a pass at her to prove the point (sorry stupid suggestion but a thought). I think controlling doesn't work for you or even talking abut it. You might have to lay off and see what problems happen if you give her a bit more freedom. The real problem is that your wife had some affairs. This automatically makes us sensitive to everything. You have no guarantee it won't happen again so you are trying to control whatever you think you can control to prevent a repeat. But if your wife wants to have an affair then she can easily have another affair no matter what you do. Even if she dresses provocatively she should have enough self esteem and loyalty to her husband that she would know how to avoid the advances of other men. I hate it too when the women say they were not at fault because the men chased them, they didn't chase the men. Totally stupid. The ladies should have strong enough morals that they remain faithful no matter what. Perpahs your wife has a very low self esteem and needs all this extra attention. In my city no one cares how other people look or what they wear.