Indy,
What do you mean you don't know if it bothers her or not? Have you been calling her by her maiden name? Or this will be the first time?<p>And, it's prolly good you missed her call. <p>Faith1<p>[ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Faith,<p> No, this isn't the first time that I have used her maiden name. I have only used it once before. I think that she would be happy to get rid of it. Just like she got rid of me. She hasn't said that I bothers her. I also know that she would never tell me if it did.<p>Indy<p>[ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

Just curious, what would YOU like her to do? Drop your name or keep it? <p>Truthfully, I think you should continue calling her "Wife Indy", until she told you otherwise. But it prolly doesn't really matter much in this tough situation - especially if you done it more than once. <p>I dunno... maybe Z will answer as well. <p>Or it may be a good Q for the D/D forum. "When to start calling STBX by maiden name?"<p>Seems to me you are trying to separate yourself from her, so that's ok. IMO. But if she wants to keep your name, you ought to call her by her name. ya know?

Faith,<p> If she doesn't want to be with me then why should I let her keep my last name. She doesn't want to be in my family. She wants to go be with the OM. Let her take his last name. Mrs. Indy is a very special name to me. If she doesn't want to be Mrs. Indy anymore then why should she keep the name? <p>What do I want her to do?<p>I want her to come home and be Mrs. Indy. I told her when she was pushing to D that I wanted my last name back. If she won't be my wife anymore then she won't carry my last name around for the rest of her life.<p>Indy<p>[ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

Indy,<p>You should call your wife by what ever is her legal name. Right now that is Mrs. Indy. It would be petty for you to call her by her maiden name when she has not asked you to.<p>RE: “why should I let her keep my last name.”<p>You have no choice in whether or not she keeps your last name. If she assumed it when she married you it is her legal name until she chooses to change it to what ever. Many women keep their married name after divorce because it is their children’s last name. It is less confusing for the kids. Even if she does not want to be Mrs. Indy anymore, she is the mother of your children. That is why she might very well keep the name. Certainly she earned that right when she bore you children. And I know you are angry at her right now but she still has the right to keep the name.<p>You cannot take your last name back from her. You still have your last name. But whatever your last name is, there are more then likely hundreds, if not thousands of other people out there with that same last name. She will get lost in that jumble. Who cares what name she keeps.<p>There is no guarantee that she is going to ever marry OM. For all you know she will remain single for the rest of her life. <p>I understand how you feel. But believe me calling her by her maiden name and demanding your name “back” will seem small and petty to her. It is definitely a love buster.<p>Indy, while the name issue is symbolic to you, you have so many bigger fish to fry, so many more important issues to deal with. Let it go. <p>Remember, per the MB principles, you are supposed to be Plan A’ing her when you do have contact with her. I know it’s hard, but your anger and hurt seem to be ruling you right now.<p>Z

Z,<p> You might all think that the name thing is petty. I don't I was so happy to call her Mrs. Indy. She doesn't want to be that anymore. Why would it confuse the kids if she didn't have our last name? Why should I even try to plan A her? She doesn't want me? What possible good could come from it? She isn't coming back, so why should I care? I am sick of hurting all of the time while she gets to go out and have a grand old time. I intend to be very formal with her tonight when she drops off the kids. <p>Indy

Indy,
You say you want her back more than anything. THat's one reason why you should plan A whenever you see her or talk to her. It's just the little things... like her maiden name, and talking bad about yourself, that you need to avoid. <p>O.K. even if you think she's never coming back to you, then at least do it to leave her the best impression of Indy that you can. Let her walk away with wondering if she's doing the right thing. Show her what she's missing out on... a polite, mature, respectful Indy. ya know?? She WILL look back and wonder what she gave up. Especially when OM dumps her. Let her remember something good about you.<p>Polite, respectful, and mature. That's all I think you need. We're not saying bust your a$$ trying to please her or fill her needs.... i really don't think you need to do all that. <p>Faith1 [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Faith,<p> I don't think that she will ever see me in a good light again. Remember, she hates me. There is nothing that I can do to change it. <p>Indy<p>[ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

Indy, Indy, Indy,<p>I'm gonna come up there and shake ya. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] JUST joshin'.<p>Seriously, that's what they all say, hun. And some of them come back and deny EVER saying it. Some of them don't... but I guess what I'm saying, is all of us BS's (yep, sometimes I really wonder what BS REALLY stands for... hehe) PLan A our buns off, even when we have a clear signal from them that they hate our guts, and regret our marriages.<p>Faith1 [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

Faith,<p> I can't do that anymore. I have already lost my family to another man. I don't think that I should be at her beak and call. I tried that already. I would do anything to get my family back at that time. But, now I know that I am nothing but a joke. I don't deserve her or the kids. Nor, do I rate to wear my uniforms anymore. Because I don't live our values. I have no honor or courage or commitment. I am even thinking about calling my WS and telling her to just bring the kids over here instead of a the ball diamond. <p>Indy<p>I forgot to add that if you really want to shake me up that badly I guess that I can meet you half way. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>[ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]<p>[ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

Indy,
OK. We'll pick a day and meet halfway so I can shake you. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Oh, Indy. I didn't mean to push you. Good grief, don't worry about plan A. Keep your plans the way they are tonite, ok??? no rush on this custody decision, remember? Don't let this Plan A stuff change your plans tonite. PLay softball, and let W pick them up (or drop them off... can't remember) at the ball park.<p>I'm certainly not mad, and I don't mind thinking through this stuff with you. We are trying to look at your situation from the outside, and tell you what we see, based on MB principles, and experiences of others.<p>Stick with your plans for tonite, and take some more time before making decisions!!!! darnit! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If you are convinced you're a horrible person, who are we to tell you different? God has a purpose for you, and He gave you dreams and goals to strive for. If your wife changes your direction in life, through HER mistakes, then pick up and find new dreams and goals. God still has a purpose for you.<p>So, listen to our Plan A advice, which COULD actually work best in your situation, or maybe it might not. Your choice. We all have our limits... But TAKE CARE OF YOU. k??<p>I'll be around. I'm not running away.<p>Faith1

Faith,<p> I am pretty well open for awhile. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I am getting ready to go to play softball. I will do my best tonight. I just feel so far away from her. Like she is a stranger now. I don't know how she can miss me. I will post to you after i get back.<p>Indy

Indy,<p> Can I come and shake ya too? <p> jd

Indy,
I did not say that “I” think it is petty. I was trying to say that your wife and the courts will look at it as petty.
Re: doesn't want to be that anymore.
Being Mrs. Indy has two parts to it. The first is being your wife. The second is being the mother of your children. And as I said before, if she wants to keep the name, then she has the legal right to. All I am saying is that you need to pick your battles carefully. If you feel strongly about this, then ask her to please change her name to anything other then your last name. But be aware that she will do whatever she so pleases. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong. I’m only saying that this is reality.
RE: Why would it confuse the kids if she didn't have our last name?
Because the kids have your last name. It is important that they feel like they belong to a family of some kind. Sharing a last name is part of that.
RE: Why should I even try to plan A her? She doesn't want me? What possible good could come from it? She isn't coming back, so why should I care?
There are three reasons why you should Plan A her. The first is that you should strive to be the very best person you can be. The second reason is that she is the mother of your children and therefore you will always be tied to her. No matter what the circumstances, your children must see you treating their mother with respect. Yes I know she is not acting in a respectful manner right now. But you still owe her the respect. Another reason you should Plan A her is that if you did for a prolonged period of time, while doing the modified Plan B, she may start to see the Ens you were filling and the ones that OM is not filling. She may also see that you are really changing for the better. That you are capable of learning from experiences like her affair. I know that this is not easy. I’ve been through it myself. It is very hard to Plan A someone you are hurt by and angry with. But in the long run it is better for you and for your entire family.
If you are showing her the anger that you are telling us of, the lashing out, I’ll bet she is thinking some thing like.. “Indy said he was a changed man, but I knew he would never change. Now, he’s grown tired of ‘the new Indy’ act and is being himself again.”
Plan A and Plan B are as much about the BS becoming a better, healed person as they are about getting the WS back.
RE: “I am sick of hurting all of the time while she gets to go out and have a grand old time.”
You have every right to be sick of hurting all the time. Is she having a “grand old time”? Who knows? But please do not strike out (I mean figuratively) in anger at her. Remember that in the WS fog, your wife thinks that she is justified in having the affair because there are some of her EN’s that you did not fill. Do you know what those Ens are? It is better to do that where she cannot see it. And you are to your credit. You are doing much of it here on MB. Good for you.<p> RE: I intend to be very formal with her tonight when she drops off the kids.
If that is how you have to handle it for your own sanity, then do it. Just don’t me mean. I know you don’t want to be mean. What I sense from you is that you are not really sure how you are supposed to behave around her. It is confusing isn’t it?<p>RE: Show her what she's missing out on... a polite, mature, respectful Indy. ya know?? She WILL look back and wonder what she gave up. Especially when OM dumps her. (Faith1)<p>Boy is this ever true. There is something like a 98% chance that she and OM are going to break up in the next 2 years or so. If this were to happen two years from now, and at that time she remembers what she loved about you and wanted back would you take her back? If you do not Plan A, her thoughts are going to be more along the line of “no matter what happened with OM, I’m glad I left Indy because he has proven himself to be a butt head.” <p>I do believe that I’ve told you several times that STL ex-wife left him for her OM. Well, 3 years later she is trying to put the make on him. Outside of a few love busters in the beginning he has treated her respectfully (as he should). Now it is obvious that she realizes what she gave up and is trying to get her tendrils back into him. Don’t think it will not happen. It is more likely that your wife will comeback if you leave a path open, then that she will not.

RE: Polite, respectful, and mature. That's all I think you need. We're not saying bust your a$$ trying to please her or fill her needs.... i really don't think you need to do all that.
Ditto, ditto, ditto<p>Z

Faith and Z,<p> I just got in from my games. She came over to the ball diamond. Man did see look beautiful. I talked to her for a couple of minutes. She told me that she dropped the kids off at my parents' house and she came there to tell me so I wouldn't worry. I told her that I was sorry I think in a very loving way. She asked me what I was sorry for. I told her that it was covered in the letter. She said don't worry about it. You have a lot of emotions you are going through right now. I offered to walk her out to the van and she said no. If you need to say anything that I can say it right there. Then she said that she would watch the kids for me on nights that she doesn't work so I can play softball. All I have to do is call. I didn't even want to play after that. I just wanted to be with her. I don't know.<p>Indy<p>[ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

wow. sounds like you handled everything fine. I know it hurts. she sounded like she was nice too. Not mean or hateful. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Indy,<p>You done good... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'm proud of you. You let her see the better side of you. It also sounds like she is starting to see the pain you are going through. That is another benefit of a good Plan A. By not wearing your pain on your sleave, by calmly setting boundaries, you make it safe for her to look at you with empathy. <p>Tonight I've been thinking of the negative things you say about yourself. Was thinking that I had many of those same thoughts when I found out about STL's affairs. I recall berating myself... it was unlovable, I must have done something terrible in my life to be punished this way. For the first time in my life I even had thoughts of hurting myself. I've been through many things.. sillbirth of my twin daughters, a very serious illness that lasted for 4 years, my father's murder, a very bad marriage to my ex-h. But none of those brought me to my knees like STL's affairs. I'm telling you this so that you know that I understand where you are coming from. I understand your pain, frustration and anger. <p>That is why I am here hoping to help you through this. I understand how this rips a person apart. Your negative feelings about yourself are not uncommon for a BS. So please understand that I am not trying to be hard on you. I'm just trying to help and sometimes don't know what to say. I'm glad that Faith1 is here too giving you support. <p>You are coming along fine. It's hard... but it's one day at a time. That is what STL always said to me. In the first months after d-day, when I would start to fall apart, he would tell me that we could only repair our marriage "one day at a time". Having him say that would help me have the patience for us to work on our relationship.<p>So I pass that one to you. You can handle this, do it just one day at a time. If you look out to the future you will not be able to see anything because it is obscured. So live one day at a time right now. You can always blow up tomorrow, make life altering choices tomorrow. But for today... Be the best Indy you can be today. No one can expect anything more of you... no even you. <p>And I'd say that in the last several days, dispite your pain and anger, you have been a pretty good Indy. You have worked through some very tough feelings and are handling things quite well. <p>And now, I'm off to bed.<p>Z

Faith and Z,<p> She has been talking like that off and on through this. What does it matter anymore. I have lost my wife and my happiness. I know now what it is like to have your dreams destroyed. Thanks for listening to me. I do have one question. Is she trying to test my boundaries?<p>
Indy<p>[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: INDY_357 ]</p>

Indy,<p>Yes I do think she is testing your boundaries. She is also testing you. Like she is trying to find out who are are now. I believe that your relationship is far from over.<p>Look what she did last night. She was considerate of you. She took the kids to your parents and then drove out to tell you what she did. And she was nice to you. If she did not care at all, she would have dropped the kids off and not said a word to you.<p>I'm not trying to build false hopes here. But I do believe that things are not over for the two of you. WS's return to their marriage 98% of the time. She may very well be trying to figure out what your boundaries are and if you will take her back.<p>Z

Indy,
ditto zorweb. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Also, she is a human being and cares about you and your pain. It's possible she wants you to be ok. She loved you Indy, and she is afraid to walk away from that. Somewhere inside her. You're going to argue with that... I know you. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Faith1