Hi all, It&#8217;s been about 6 weeks or so since D-Day. I moved back home about 2 weeks ago, figured it was time for a bit of an update. First let me say thanks for all the insightful and sage advice I&#8217;ve seen here, it has surely helped me make it to this point. Sorry but I&#8217;m thinking this will be loooong&#8230; <p>Things are a bit weird right now. We had a massive LB fest a week ago Tuesday. Definitely the worst fight we&#8217;ve had in 20 years. Many vicious and hurtful things were said. It&#8217;s also the only time I can recall the thought of actually hitting her ever crossing my mind. That troubles me greatly! I still see her eyes as she said, &#8220;so I had an A, big deal, get over it.&#8221; Anyway, since then things have been very friendly and I&#8217;m not sure why or what it means. We chat, we laugh, I help her with her quilting, I massage her feet and back. Her smile actually touches her eyes sometimes and, in the past several days, she&#8217;s actually reached out to meet me when I try to hug or kiss her! I&#8217;ve even gotten a couple of &#8220;I love you too&#8221; responses. Yet after very passionate SF last night, we were talking and I told her how very much I loved her and she responded &#8220;yeah? You poor man.&#8221; I guess I&#8217;m a bit confused by the whole thing&#8230; Still no commitment to try or any kind of decision from W. I don&#8217;t even dare broach the subject, another blow-up would wreck me I&#8217;m afraid. I feel like I&#8217;m walking a tightrope much of the time and I&#8217;m trying very hard not to read too much into the positive things I see. She was even talking about decorating plans the other day and other long-term projects we had working prior to all hell breaking lose. I suppose I&#8217;m fighting as hard not to become to optimistic right now as I am fighting for my M. I suppose I&#8217;m struggling to maintain a &#8220;guarded optimism&#8221; right now.<p>So what have I discovered in the last few weeks? Many things indeed! <p>I&#8217;ve looked hard at myself and found that I don&#8217;t really like what I see I many respects. Even allowing for the years of depression. I have always been very demanding and judgmental in many respects. It wasn&#8217;t intentional but my tone and demeanor have always made that the perception. I&#8217;m working hard on this! I&#8217;m trying to fully internalize and live the essential truth that I have no control over anyone but myself. That&#8217;s a tough one for me. <p>I have learned that my communication skills have always been negligible&#8230; that is the major EN I never met. I&#8217;m judgmental, I&#8217;m disrespectful and I&#8217;ve honestly never given her opinions or thoughts as much credence as my own. I&#8217;m a debater and I treat every conversation as a battle!. This I&#8217;m working on as well. According to my C, it&#8217;s a symptom of being a thinker. I analyze by nature and I analyze and formulate responses while I should be listening. I need to be able to listen more from the heart and less from my mind to overcome this. She gave me some mental exercises that really seem to help. The most effective being to imagine I was breathing through my heart. Sounds strange but it works! It&#8217;s one of the few times I&#8217;ve actually had an empty mind. J<p>I also learned that I need to give my W space and time. I&#8217;m learning patience&#8230; I&#8217;m learning to love her in the ways she needs me to. I&#8217;m learning that I need her to be free to choose even more than I need her to choose us. I honestly think I&#8217;m becoming a better man for this experience! I can actually get past the pain of the A to the real issues we face. Accepting my responsibility in this and understanding how we came to this place has been instrumental in this. I&#8217;m learning empathy and compassion. I&#8217;m learning to deal with the guilt I feel for the pain my years of neglect caused her. <p>Well that&#8217;s a start anyway I suppose. I have no idea where I&#8217;m going or when the journey will even begin. I do know I will be a better person for the experience and I have many of you to thank for pointing me down the right road. I apologize for this long, self-serving post. I wish you all the very best.

I'm going to try that breathing through the heart thing. I have the same problem with my mind on overdrive all the time trying to figure everything out, so thanks for passing that along.<p>Now, if I could only find time to quilt, I'd probably feel much better. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Conqueror

SoFar:
I can relate. You sound a lot like me. I too have been very judgemental, disrespectful, and demanding and this has played a big part in destroying our marriage. I feel your pain, and although I doubt that what I have to say here will make you feel any better, at least you will know that you have someone who can empathize.<p>We've been married 22 years - 2 kids 14 & 12 - D-Day 8/21/01. I am the BS. She worked at my company and had what she describes as one night stand with one of my customers. She lied and lied and lied and she insists that she did not have sex with him, and her most recent story is the "real" truth. After reading MB for 2 mos now, I think that if I ever get the whole truth, it won't be for a long time. I doubt that I will ever get the whole truth. (Reason # 1 why I doubt we will can ever recover. You must have honesty). This has been the most painful experience of my life and the ups and downs make it even harder. I attempted plan A, but I am not very good at suppressing my anger and have had many outbursts that have driven her further and further from me. What you read here about LB is true. Avoid LBs at all costs. When I realized that she had violated our trust, I cried like a baby for days while I begged her not to leave me. She promised me that she did not want to leave, but she blamed me for all of our many preexisting (problems before infidelity were severe) and what she blamed me for what she did with OM. She said that if I could change, she might be able to learn to love me again, but she was (and is) sure that I could not change into the person that she thinks she wants. I assured her that I could and would do whatever it takes to make her happy again, but she said that she doubts that it&#8217;s possible. She is on the fence, still in the fog, unwilling to discuss us, and she continues to be secretive and lie. Finally, although she has said that she does not want divorce, she is cold, distant, and says that she just can&#8217;t show me any affection because she just can&#8217;t find any love for me. She also keeps insisting that despite her many requests, I have not given her any space and she needs it. This, of course made me want her all the more, and this of course, made her want me less. It has driven me to the lowest point of my life. Although our relationship was in deep trouble before D-day, I never stopped loving her, never thought that she disliked me so much, and above all, I never thought that she would cheat on me. (Although now, I can think of a at least one time years ago when she probably did have an A) Once in a while, if I begged her, she would say something to reassure me that she did want to try to work things out, but she kept asking me to give her space and avoided me as much as she could. At one point, she asked me to leave my own house. Like a fool, I did - but only for a couple of nights. I said repeatedly that I will forgive her, but she has to commit to complete honesty. (Her shrink told her that NO ONE is capable of this !!??)<p>She lost her love and respect for me gradually over 15 years or so, (assuming that perhaps our first 5 - 7 years were somewhat happy for her) however, after her "one night stand" (I am pretty sure that she has not seen him since - however, I did catch her on the phone with OM discussing their latest lie), I suddenly realized that my failure to meet her Ens, and respond to her in the way she wanted, was the reason she ended up with OM. BUT, I do not, nor will I accept all of the responsibility for the pre D-day deterioration of our marriage. It takes two to tango, and she participated in driving a wedge between us as much as I did. However, I will not accept any responsibility for what she did with OM. It was wrong - no matter what I did or did not do earlier in our marriage. What she did with him is her fault - but, I don't think that she can see that and she certainly does not want to. I think that you need to focus on this and make sure that you know that what your spouse did is her fault - not yours. I am pretty sure that my W justifies what she did with OM by convincing herself that I deserved to be punished for what I did to her during the past 22 years. She probably has convinced herself that cheating was an appropriate way to get me back for the pain I caused her.<p>For years, she has either resisted me or simply pushed me away every time I attempted to discuss our problems and what was bothering her. I said over and over that she needed to spend less time with the kids and we needed to spend more time on us. She rarely wanted this. All she has said, and all she has done since D-Day is tell me that she is not sure if she wants me or if she has the strength to rebuild. I decided that I could either continue to pretend that she would once again love me as I always thought she had, and suffer while she rejected my gentle attempts to reach out to her and discuss "US". We have had a few good days since D-Day and have even become intimate. But, the only way that we can interact without a problem is if I do not say anything about the past, or us. When we would have a &#8220;good&#8221; time, I would derive a false sense of hope that she does want me, but inevitably, I incorrectly thought that this was an opportunity to talk to her about us, and it always ended up in ugly arguments and major LB. When this happens, she withdraws, and we would instantly be catapulted right back to our inner space and withdraw from one another.<p>I too, have also begun to look inside myself and am not sure that I like what I see. I have said for years that I don't know what I want to do when I grow up, and I don&#8217;t. I know that I do not feel fulfilled in many aspects of my life (esp my marriage) despite that fact that I have my own successful business and two beautiful children. However, after this eye opening crisis and 2 months of plan A, I have decided that the only option that I have now is to move on. I guess in my case, &#8220;moving on&#8221; means that I am in the process of convincing myself and accepting what I think she has known for a long time but is too weak or afraid to admit to me or herself. She does not want me. I felt this from her for about 5 years and especially for the last 2 months and it was killing me. After talking myself into accepting it, I feel better. I no longer suffer through every moment of every day because I don&#8217;t continuously hope and wait for her to call me, or email me, or wait for her to offer some sign that she wants to be with me. It has not been easy, but at least it is a little less painful (I think for both of us). The problem with this approach is that if she ever does decide to come back to me, I&#8217;m not sure that I&#8217;ll be willing or able. How will I be able to love her after spending months and months teaching myself not to love her ? This is exactly what she has been saying since D-Day. She just can&#8217;t snap her fingers and instantly love me again after all the hurt that I have caused her. Since I made this decision, I have stopped calling her except when absolutely necessary,(kids) otherwise we just avoid each other. I have been able to get out of town on business since my awakening, and will be away again next week for a full 7 days. This will not be easy, because this will give her the opportunity to re-connect with OM, but, if that&#8217;s what she wants, again, I must accept it and move on.
Since I made this decision, I suppose I have seen a slight improvement in her attitude, (she was actually polite to me tonight when we saw each other momentarily - she said Hello - WOW) but I don&#8217;t know if it is because she knows that I have given up, thus relieving her of the unpleasant duty of actually telling me that she wants out, or maybe since I explained to her that I had made this decision, she feels a little more relaxed? Who knows ? Perhaps I will find out some day, but I just can&#8217;t allow myself to be proccupied with this or her anymore. I suppose the next step will be a separation. Who knows. I have a life to live.

sofar2go and dirtboy58 sometimes it takes someting traumatic like this to happen fot us to really see the whole picture. I too am the BS and I've had to look deep inside myself to see the person I had become. I'm sure your wives still love and care about you. Just give it some time and work, work really hard on yourselves. Remember this time is about you. Life really does go on even when our spouses are not in the picture. It has taken me a long time to realize that. I didn't think I would be able to go on without my H and here I am. I heard all those same lines that every other BS hears. You never think it will happen to you but here we are. Marriage is definitely work. If you want your M to work you have to work on you first. Show your spouses that you have changed no LB's. Believe me I know it's hard for awhile I was the queen of LB'ing. I stopped focusing so much on H and things are turnoing around. He's not home yet but we are getting along and that's a start. Hang in there guys. We are all in this togehter and are here to help each other on this roller coaster.
C

Thanks for the responses! Things are going along quite well. No major changes but I&#8217;m finding my center of balance on the tightrope a bit more each day and getting a little more comfortable with the dance. I believe that reestablishing some level of comfort between us will be critical to making any progress at all. <p>Conqueror: The breathing through the heart works for me. To fill in the details a little bit. My C said it&#8217;s a matter of redirecting energies (this gets a bit transcendental/new age). It has to do with the philosophy we &#8220;think&#8221; with our entire bodies but the mind and the heart are the 2 primary vehicles for thought. She suggested holding my hand in front of my face and slowly drawing it down ending up over my heart as a method of helping establish the link. The idea is to bring some of the energies from your mind to your heart and establish a link between the two. This actually does work for me. Much of the time I expend a great deal of effort just trying to listen and &#8220;catch&#8221; all the words. Doing this, I was able to calm my mind and get past the &#8220;noise&#8221; of my constantly racing thoughts. I was able to actually understand what she was saying but yet not &#8220;hear&#8221; each word. As she said, &#8220;your ears will work without direct assistance, concentrate on reaching a deeper level of listening&#8221;. It is real effort right now, I have to consciously think to do it but I figure in time it will become habit. I hope it helps!<p>Dirtboy: Our stories are uncomfortably similar. If there is a difference, it&#8217;s that I feel I bear the lion&#8217;s share of the responsibility for our situation. I&#8217;ve been chronically depressed for over 10 years. The hell of it is, through the daze I lived in for years, I see all the attempts she made to reach me. She essentially Plan A&#8217;d me for years. Let me give you a few thoughts, If I may, that have helped me deal with some of this&#8230; If your wife truly doesn&#8217;t love you, why is she there? I ask mine this all the time when she starts pushing away. I&#8217;ve gotten many weak responses but none that feel like the truth. I figure if anyone has the justification not to love, it would be my W, yet she&#8217;s still here. This amazes me some days, it surely speaks of some level of commitment, even if it only appears as confusion right now. Confusion is a good thing in my estimation, that shows there&#8217;s a battle going on within her. <p>I&#8217;ve come to the conclusion that I must rebuild from scratch. I don&#8217;t EVER ask about &#8220;us&#8221;. I figure she&#8217;ll talk when she&#8217;s ready. I&#8217;m in the process of becoming her friend again. I&#8217;m in no hurry. I&#8217;m plan Aing for all I&#8217;m worth and I find that I can do it with little or no hit to my self respect. She deserves so much more than I was able to give for years! We&#8217;ve done a full role reversal now. I&#8217;m the giver, she&#8217;s the taker. In many respects I feel this is poetic justice and it does provide a perfect opportunity to demonstrate that I can be there for her. Plan A is for you! Use it to honestly evaluate where you are and where you&#8217;d like to be. For me it&#8217;s a bit unsettling. It&#8217;s nearly impossible to give at all in a depressed state and in many respects I&#8217;m discovering who I am after living in that state for so many years. I can only do what feels right at the moment as in many respects I have no precedence to rely on to determine the appropriate action. I find that the act of giving is a reward in and of itself. I do things for her now that I&#8217;d never have considered 6 weeks ago. I&#8217;m at her beck and call in many respects and I find I actually enjoy doing it! Very strange&#8230; I think it&#8217;s partially guilt, trying to make up for all the years lost while I lived in the abyss and simply trying to become the person I want to be. I don&#8217;t feel like a doormat at all.<p>Dealing with the anger&#8230;. Yes it hurts, I never imagined it could happen to us. The image of WS with OM comes unbidden quite often and it tears a chunk from my soul every time. The best advice I&#8217;ve gotten to deal with this came from my MIL&#8230; She told me to think of the last 20 years and think of what event or time was most important. My mind locked onto being all curled up at home watching a movie with her and the kids and feeling a warm bubble of security with us all together and also times I&#8217;ve laid with her in my arms just chatting. My MIL then asked me what I saw and asked if it was the A&#8230; She said &#8220;apparently it&#8217;s not very important in the greater scheme since it wasn&#8217;t prevalent&#8221;. She said focus on recapturing what IS important and not to get lost in (relative) inconsequential issues that can prevent attaining the greater goal. It works for me. I suppose if it was the A that I had seen then we would truly be finished&#8230; I also write in a journal every night. The really noxious garbage that creeps up from the depths gets dumped into the journal. If W ever reads that, things could be ugly!<p>I suppose the question we all have to ask ourselves is if the relationship is worth the effort we&#8217;ll have to go to in order to even have a chance at saving it. For me, I have no choice. I&#8217;ve considered walking away but the pain will only follow, there&#8217;s no real escape but to do all I can. In the event that she does choose to leave, I&#8217;ll at least know I did everything I could. It could be that you&#8217;re playing right into your W&#8217;s hands by giving up. I know there&#8217;s times my W would love to see me leave. Then it would be my fault not hers. I&#8217;ll not make it that easy for her to go. I&#8217;ll not stop her or impede her decision in any way. I want her only if this is where she finds she wants to be. I guess what I&#8217;m saying is only you can make the call on if it&#8217;s worth the effort. It&#8217;s sounds to me like you love her a great deal. I&#8217;d give it some real thought before throwing in the towel. Perhaps in giving up you&#8217;re actually giving her the space she needs&#8230;<p>Cybil: Thanks for your words. I am learning that plan A is for me. I find that I believe that I&#8217;ll survive this and be a better person for the experience no matter the outcome. I can reach past the anger these says and focus on the love which has made this much easier to do. I wish you all