Hi All,
Looking at some posts about snooping/sleuthing I would like to invite comments on this subject.<p>1. Snooping/sleuthing is a must to bring evidence of A since WS is in the fog and usually they lie and they never disclose A on their own.
2. Snooping/sleuthing is a must to see how deep of a [censored] are you in, kind of accessing the damage.
3. Snooping/Sleuthing is a major LB that you could play down with the use fogese as a defense such as "I get better PI or method next time" or "If you tell me the truth nothing but the truth I don't have to do this" or "Why do you have A at the first place". You have been betrayed you have the right to know for your plan A.
4. Snooping/sleuthing is not for "revenge", "demand" or any type of LB. Only for the 1 & 2 reasons above and not even will help bring your WS back at all.
5. Snooping/sleuthing is not for the emotinally weak since the "fact" will drain your LB$ like no tomorrow.
6. Once you find out all you need to know about their A, you should stop it and put those extra energy to get busy on your plan A. Don't give OP/WS the satisfaction.<p>I just did #6 yesterday and told my WW that she should not worry about me snooping (they know I did it) since I got all the info that I need.<p>Any comment ? do we need to share about snooping/sleauthing technique ?.

redhat-<p>comments on your questions:
1) I think snooping can also be appropriate to see if contact continues after d-day.
2) Snooping does help with damage assessment when the S is not being honest or open and won't make any commitments.
3) If snooping is discovered, it is a major LB if you choose to be open with that information. However, not all LBs are fatal.
4) agreed
5) strongly agree. You must also be able to keep your mouth shut about the discoveries made during snooping until is it appropriate. The effort could really backfire if the information is revealed too quickly.
6) yes, but I feel it is important to know if contact is continuing.<p>I tell my counselor of my snooping discoveries. I feel this helps him know how to direct our recovery efforts. I do not do this out of revenge. Anyway, just my $0.02. I hate snooping. Never had to before d-day. Makes me feel dishonest.<p>HoFS

I as a snoop agree with all you said.
Snooping is the only way I know of to get the truth when WS won't fess up. It is dishonest and a LB in it's opwn right. For someone like who needs honesty above all else it was a very hard place to go, knowing that I would tell S as soon as I could. My mental state could not stand knowing that I was being lied to, I just had to have answers before i came unwound completely.
I have a lot of guilt about the snooping I did but i can (rationalize?) it by my need to know and the promises that were made about always being honest that obviously not being kept.
Should we trade info on how to? It all seemed too simple to me to need to be taught.

To snoop is a #1 priority when you have a spouse in an affair. Counseling with Jennifer Harley she told me to snoop, for #1 money. I found H using money to pay for the OW cellphone and her bills. (She lives 2000 miles away). I found receipts that he sent her flowers, bought her gifts, cards, have a few of them copied that were quite sexually oriented. When the WS has sex with someone else, this is protection for you from STD and whatever. This is a MUST!!!!!!! I am still uncertain about my H in what he has contacted from the promiscous woman he delt with. He keeps saying she was honorable, but to have someone elses privates in contact with your privates, is honorable?<p>Snooping is protection for yourself and your family, since the WS is out to lunch. They are in fantasy, euphoria, spaced out and fog. They don't care how much money they spent (my H didn't), even offered to pay for Hotel when the OW said she didn't want to go out to dinner, she would rather go to a hotel. So they did for their 4 or 5 hours. My H and OW found each other sexually attracted when we went out to Arizona to visit my H's ill father. They managed with family there to see each other and have their fun 5 or 6 times. <p>I snooped with an investigator, he found this to be the womans 2nd physical affair, and possibly 3rd physical affair. Found the OW and her H to have 3 1/2 bankruptcys. Found the OW H social security # as well as hers. I didn't pay much for this investigator, but now I know the ropes to getting a good investigator. Like I was told by another person, their investigator video taped them going to a place and having sex. I wish I had it on tape, to show the lawyer, and to show the OW H that his wife is playing around again. <p>Snooping can really find the truth about you, supposedly spouse and find the truth that they are such big fat liars. I found my H to be the biggest fat liar. He denied everything I asked him about. He denied ever having sex with her. The OW denied that to me too, she said she never had sex with my H. Lies were thrown out everywhere, I couldn't believe anything my H said, and to this day I can't trust him. <p>The OW lied to me too. She called me 3 times to say she would kill herself if I and H were to tell her H. She wants to keep this affair a secret from her H. <p>Don't feel bad about snooping, snooping is a necessity in an affair. I felt bad until I talked to Jennifer. She said it was AOK! To help you out, I would do it again if needed. But this time I would do it better. I would confront the OW, I would hire a good detective, now that I know how to find a good detective. A reliable one that will do a good job for your money. Hope this helps.

redneck and all,<p>Ditto thinker's post.<p>Sure, investigating will be offensive to the WS and therefore a LB, as if the A and betrayal of the BS isn't!!!; HOWEVER, investigating (AKA snooping, but more politically correct [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ) is pure self-defense from someone who looks you in the eyes and lies through his/her teeth. <p>In my son's case (BS), DIL had upped and moved out-of-state with no hint of an A, just unhappy and needing space. In fact, in trying to explain her actions, the one thing we KNEW wasn't an issue was an A. Ha! D-day was one month later by a unique coincidence, and since this was long distance, S had to hire a PI since he couldn't be there himself to find out if what he had discovered was true. It was. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>A word of caution about PIs. Be careful. Don't trust them either. The first one lied and scammed S, a problem with long distance business of this sort. Cost us a lot!!! of money which son only partially recouped. <p>S also felt bad because he saw himself as being dishonest, all the while in agony because of
his W's dishonesty.<p>Sigh, Estes

Well, snooping provides me with the truth and its the only way I can get it.<p>I intend on writing a play about all of this. It will be called "She Snoops to Conquer".

OK,<p>A confession [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>It was exciting and a perverse kind of fun to sleuth with my son. We are both pretty serious problem-solving types. Cell phone records are pretty incriminating, aren't they. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>In my defense [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] , I was able to do this sleuthing with S because I had to fly across the country ASAP to help him cope with the stress of discovery. He couldn't eat, sleep, had anxiety attacks, and developed heart arhythmia (frightening!) while trying to care of their 2 year-old son. He couldn't ever take care of himself!<p>We really did laugh through our tears that,
"The family that sleuths together, stays together!"<p>I love my WDIL, but boy did she make some terrible errors in judgment!!<p>Estes<p>[ November 19, 2001: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

Snooping to discover the truth about a suspected dishonest spouse should not be thought of as deceitful spying, but rather as necessary affair research.<p>That said, the discovery of snooping (by, you guessed it, WS snooping) WILL BE a major LB. For this reason, snooping should be kept to the bare minimum needed to stay informed.

There's alot of reasons for snooping.<p>Keeping track of marital assets is a must. Some states allow the BS to recoup monies spent on the affair (in a divorce). Ok, so most BS here don't want a divorce, but it doesn't mean it won't happen! <p>As far as I am concerned, with an A active, anything can and will happen. The WS can not be trusted with ANYTHING, and therefore snooping is a must, if only to protect the BS and any children.<p>Yes, it hurts like hell to make major discoveries. But I think its important to face reality. <p>Does it mean that the BS needs to track down every detail? No. The emotional impact is too devastating, and I think that it impedes the BS from getting the focus back to themselves.<p>In my case, my WH denied denied and denied. And then I managed to get ahold of about 30 emails between himself and the OW. Not only did I confront him with black and white proof that couldn't be denied, I also gave those emails to his family, who he had been telling that I was psycho, and that nothing was going on.<p>At that point, the affair was definitely in the light of day, and was very much the beginning of the natural death of the affair.

redhat,<p>I snooped and I wish I wouldn't have. We have already had lots of sex aparently while they were doing it to, I feel like I found out to late to protect me and thinking of them together is just too painful to know the truth now.

My son discovered that his W was having an affair when he was checking email on their joint email account on her computer while visiting DIL in her new state.<p>He found a photo she had sent the OM showing my son's little boy and the OM together, labeled by WDIL as, "My two favorite guys! Love, ...." He previously had absolutely no clue!! In fact, the implication of what he had stumbled upon did not occur to him until hours later. Then, in a flash of insight, the truth dawned on him.<p>Son began to "snoop" and found other pictures of OM, OM's kids and my grandson playing together, OM and GS at OM's place of work - one big, happy, illcit family. From there he figured out who this man was. Turned out OM is a HS sweetheart whom DIL once intended to marry, but he jilted her 15 !! years ago. We actually knew more about him, his XWs, etc. after our investigation than DIL knew. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Son had to "sit" on the info for a month until d-day. It nearly killed him.<p>BrambleRose is right about not needing all the details. It serves no purpose and hurts too much.<p>BTW, DIL acknowledges that she understands why S had to investigate even though she does like it.<p>Estes<p>Also, S felt he HAD to get proof of the infidelity to protect himself and his little boy if it comes down to a custody battle.<p>[ November 19, 2001: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redhat:
[QB]
6. Once you find out all you need to know about their A, you should stop it and put those extra energy to get busy on your plan A. Don't give OP/WS the satisfaction.<p>I just did #6 yesterday and told my WW that she should not worry about me snooping (they know I did it) since I got all the info that I need.
QB]<hr></blockquote><p>I don't agree that one should stop once you have established that you are living with an untrustworthy person. The investigation needs to continue to ensure that the affair does not CONTINUE. Just finding out about the affair is not enough - you then have to take the steps to RESTORE trust and that cannot be done by the sole "WORD" of an untrustworthy person. There has to be verification. You have to VERIFY that the affair has not continued.<p>It would be insane to treat an untrustworthy person with the same trust that you afford a trustworthy person. Or to take thier "word": for it. I will never ever blindly trust my spouse again and will occasionally snoop to ensure that my interests are protected. I have a responsibilty to protect my interests and will live up to that responsibilty.<p>I should add that my snooping has probably saved our marriage and restored the love I once I felt for him. It has shown me that he is being faithful with me and has not returned to his old ways. That has worked to reassure me and made me fall in love with him again.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by the old guy:
<strong>
I have a lot of guilt about the snooping I did but i can (rationalize?) it by my need to know and the promises that were made about always being honest that obviously not being kept.
Should we trade info on how to? It all seemed too simple to me to need to be taught.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I have never and will never feel guilty about finding information that I HAVE A RIGHT TO HAVE AND SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN WITHHELD FROM ME. I don't think the FBI feels guilty when they snoop on the mafia because they are doing so to protect the public interest. Same with snooping on a cheating spouse, it is done to protect the innocent spouse's interest. <p>There seems to be a misconception out there that a spouse is entitled to the "privacy" to destroy thier spouse. Isn't that sort of a silly notion?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I have never and will never feel guilty about finding information that I HAVE A RIGHT TO HAVE AND SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN WITHHELD FROM ME. I don't think the FBI feels guilty when they snoop on the mafia because they are doing so to protect the public interest. Same with snooping on a cheating spouse, it is done to protect the innocent spouse's interest. <p>There seems to be a misconception out there that a spouse is entitled to the "privacy" to destroy thier spouse. Isn't that sort of a silly notion?<p> <hr></blockquote><p>Makes a lot of sense, Melody.<p>Estes

Hi my name is sing and I am a snoop.<p>I very seldom ever confronted my then H, now that he is my STBX he still doesn't know all that I know.<p>I only can tell you that if I hadn't kept snooping I would never had been prepared. STBX would tell me one thing, but his actions never backed his words, only by snooping did anything ever make sense.<p>If you have nothing hide snooping wouldn't be a problem.

Hi Redhat,<p>Snooping or sleuthing? <p>Snooping: US Search, Opus on computer, checking receipts, records, following them, etc. <p>Sleuthing: Paid to check up on WS by a 3rd party. <p>The bad part: It may reveal more than you want to know. It may hurt. It may make you come to some wrong conclusions. It will frustrate you. It will be hard to forget. It could hamper recovery if 'you' put it in the way. Your WS may be angry at you It could be a trigger. .....there's probably more.<p>The better part: It may reveal what you feel you need to know. It may start you on the road to recovery quicker. You may be able to learn to protect yourself better. You may find evidence that could help stop the A. It could expose the OP to greater harm (that could be good or bad). It may force the truth to the surface sooner. It may completely stop the A (though not always). Your WS may be grateful that you exposed the A and all its trappings ....there may be more. <p>It usually a combo of bad and better. I don't discourage it. I do recommend that you be strong when you do it. Check out your references carefully. Make sure you are not taken for a ride. Keep everything in writing. Don't underestimate evidence. If possible give a writeup to the investigative firm. Some firms employ off duty law enforcement officers. The things they can uncover. Hmmm...... USsearch also is another source. <p>Especially if you suspect drugs or criminal activity, you have a right to know. Also if the WS and OP are having business dealings the BS and family monies could be involved. Some of these OPs use the money angle to their benefit......They aren't all that innocent you know [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] !<p>
That's my take,
L.

Okay, my turn.<p>Hello, my name is Resilient and I too am a snooper extrodinaire! lol<p>I had to snoop, if I wouldn't have, I would be paying for $10K of Studio Equipment and a Professional grade Kareoke machine. My H was financing all this CRAP to help OW supplement her Welfare and Food stamps. <p>As most of you know, I listened in on my H's voice pages from OW for 8 mos (several every night) and my H nor OW never knew. Keeping it to myself was very hard for that long, occasionally I shared it with my counselor tho. <p>I don't regret it and recommend doing it to protect yourself and your children. But prepare yourself, and have someone there who cares about you when things are first revealed. It can be very devistating.<p>Jo

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Resilient:
<strong>Okay, my turn.<p>Hello, my name is Resilient and I too am a snooper extrodinaire! lol<p>I don't regret it and recommend doing it to protect yourself and your children. But prepare yourself, and have someone there who cares about you when things are first revealed. It can be very devistating.<p>Jo</strong><hr></blockquote><p>knew I was in good company. I agree with Jo, be prepared, never snoop if you are not going to have time to get control. I was very lucky that the worst things I found I had plenty of time to myself to get a grip. There were times it was very hard.<p>When I 1st confronted my then H, I only did it because I knew he was planning on talking to me that day. At 5:30 in the morning I turned on the lights, pulled the covers off him, and started throwing some things at him. I regert not doing what I really wanted to do, after pulling the covers off, I wished I had grabbed him by the balls & twisted. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] You know I think that is my main regret in 2 yrs of hell. <p>Since then I have very seldom confronted my then H, about what I found out. He still has no clue all that I know.

Whoa! <p>Sing (aka Mrs. Bobbit) ... I never knew you had it in you! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Shoot .. a little bit of ball twisting never hurt anybody. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Jo

Wow Sing Snoop,<p>Don't every get you mad!!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Now I know where the LB fairie gets all her best ideas!!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.