Lexxy, yes the affair was very painful for me - but mostly because I was scared - and didn't understand the why's and such at the time. Any time you divide a love even one gone bad - there will be pain - tons of it - but doesn't childbirth involve pain for a worthy result as well? Did I know of the A - on some level - I think I did - He didn't hide what it was doing to him very well - he broke out in hives at one point - I can't really say that I didn't know - but more like I didn't want to know - didn't want to admitt it. Anyway, he told me - it wasn't like I followed him and "caught him" in anyway - actually - one day I asked and he told me - we had already moved into seperate houses at that point. Like I said - yes, I fought even harder than it looks like some of the MB folks do - but I'm a fighter - bet you couldn't guess that -haha - but what's funny at the very same time I was going on with my life - I moved out of our house - told him I wasn't harbouring a home for him while he found himself - got a new job in a new town and embarked on a different path - looks like I combined A and B I suppose - It took us Two years to finilize the divorce - the reason being the mixed feelings of - yes I love you - but no not like that and we were good people - wanted to do what was right - and that's stay married and have the 2.5 kids right?
As for MM - I must say I really don't know - I don't know if I would marry him - I could be a romantic and say - another time and another place yes - but truth is I don't know - As for me helping him fix his marriage - I am not the one to do that - his marriage - belongs to him and his W - and them only - as did mine - I see a lot of paralles with his and my marriage - probably why we were initially attracted to each other. But my truths are not their truths - they have to find those. I understand that that is best done with out me around - I'd like to say I don't think I'm a big threat now that the pa is off - but I know that's not true - I do believe that I am not the cause of thier problems but a symptom - I don't know what I'm going to do - I don't know what he's going to do - only time will tell.

Resilient,<p>As my kids would say: You rock.

Hailey -- thanks for sharing!<p>So many people here would give everything they have to get the OP out of their lives.<p>So I think a lot of the flames you are getting are a way for the BS's here to say to you what they wish they could say to the OP. Not to you personally -- but to you the category.<p>I think you'll continue to get a lot of heat if you are in an ongoing affair with a MM and posting here. And regardless of whether or not you are physically involved, you seem to still be emotionally involved and having daily contact. And I think everyone here will agree that an emotional affair is equally as damaging (maybe even more so) than a physical affair. The combination of the two is extremely difficult to overcome -- and your ongoing contact makes the chances of it going back to physical that much greater.<p>I also think that if you want to find the strength to end this relationship -- you have found the greatest group of cheerleaders you could ever have in your corner. Buy him a copy of "His needs/Her needs" or "Give and Take" -- and tell him that it is in the best interest of ALL involved that you end all contact.<p>I'm a WS. I have been waffling between my husband and OM for a long long time. If OM took any of the steps I am suggesting to you, I would be back working on my marriage. I don't have the strength to end it. And I know there is an "addiction" component to our relationship too. If OM had the strength to make the break, it would solve a lot of conflictions I have.

thanks lexxy, we ended the pa because we both felt that it was being disrespectful to his marriage - and boy was it - the ea is hard to end - maybe you understand that lexxy and the others who have been in one - that's what i origionally came to ask i think - right now I don't see how our being friends and communicating as friends could jepordize his marriage - I don't see him leaving his responsiblities - so I don't see that it could be so harmful- I didn't say it wasn't - please - I said I couldn't see how - that is my question - if some of you care to answer - without calling me names - i won't poke back. thanks

hailey,
The reason that a continued friendship with the MM endangers his marriage is that his emotional reserves are split two ways, half to W and family and half to you. His W doesn't have a chance with only 1/2 of a husband to work with. In MB terms, you are meeting part of MM emotional needs and W is meeting the others. For a marriage to be healthy the spouses are the only one who should meeting each others emotional needs. The right thing, the moral thing is to stop meeting any of his EN so that his wife can begin to do that, if she will. This way she can begin to fill her love bank (another MB term) and rebuild his love for each other.

With you still available, his wife is shut out and he will continue to vacillate back and forth between you. While he does this, his family goes through hell.<p>Please consider this,
Estes

Hailey,
I haven't read this entire thread. But I will say this about the last post that I just read from you.<p>There is no way to make a clear decision between W and You while he is still in communication with you. Like it or not he's got to deal with this one situation at a time.<p>I've been a cheating girlfriend. It's really really hard. when I was in constant contact with the OM I was too heavily influenced by him. He was not trying to influence me. But his mere presence was.<p>Ultimately I decided to end the initial relationship and begin a relationship with the OM. We were together for a long time. But on the front end there was a lot of stuff to work through. Mostly trust issues.<p>My xMM and I made a 30 day on contact pact. We went about 35 days with zero communication. The first 10 days were sheer hell. Than after that it was wonderful and the distance let me see him clearly.<p>That's when we made the decision to take a longer break and work on our own lives.<p>It was scary as hell and very, very hard. But we let go gently and with a lot of love.<p>Now, months later. I love him. I release him, and am happily dating a really wonderful SG (single guy).

Even folks when we talk about just everyday things - our jobs - christmas shopping - etc. Nothing emotional and nothing sexual. Even if it is innocent conversation? Remember - I'm asking here. Not being sarcastic.

Lexxy - you're on the other side - as a WS - I'd like to hear your answer for that last question.

I think the harm comes in:
........him always keeping you close to his heart.......to always feel there is a "possibility" with you.........to compare the easy relationship with you to the difficult one with his wife.............<p>There are probably lots more of these kinds of reasons -- but a lot of that also depends on how you are defining this friendship. Do you mean that you talk everyday? how intimately? do you intend to continue seeing/visiting each other?<p>The continued contact will lessen his desire to work on his marriage because you will be fulfilling some of his emotional needs that he should be having fulfilled by his wife. It decreases her chances of having a fulfilling relationship with her husband.<p>And its not fair to you either. You need closure and the opportunity to move on to someone who fits you.<p>I know how difficult it is. But I also believe that it would only be difficult through what everyone calls the "withdrawal" period. My OM and I don't have a physical relationship right now -- but we have a strong emotional one. We talk everyday -- I am closer to him than anyone else in this world. And that is hard to give up. I also recognize that if we stopped, we would both get over it, move on and heal. I also recognize that my continued contact with him is blocking my motivation to restore my marriage.

lexxy - i think we were posting at the same time. answers are - yes, we talk every day - nothing intimate - occasionlly something will slip in - an inuendo of some sort - but not every day - we plan to see each other only when we see our mutual friends at the same time.

My H came home in April, but continued the innocent communication just like you are. I can tell every time he talks to her, he becomes distant and withdrawn from me and it takes us a few days to get back in sync. I feel totally insecure because I snoop, and instead of being reasured that he isnt talking to her I find about contact , so I feel I cant relax my vigilance. Every time I find that I feel the love inside me slip a little more. He doesnt care enough about me to do the one thing that would allow us to begin to recover... stop talking to her. Talking to her is more imprtant than me to him.<p>I think I may end this marriage if I find continued conatact one more time. I am tired of being in a relationship with 3. <p>Hows that for the results of continued innocent talking about the weather?

How Hailey?<p>I am faced with that...my H still calls OW and I suspects stills sneaks visits...<p>...I discovered recent contact on last cell bill...aligned specifically with an argument we had...where I told him that marrying me was a selfish act and so was his A...

For clarification he has said that he wasn't "in-love" with me when he married me...felt some odd sort of pressure, obligation to marry me...has said he worked and worked and worked on marriage and felt he deserved someone for himself...someone that made him feel good...<p>...meanwhile how did I demean my H? I had a good career...I made most of our income...I managed finances (and he was happy to let me)...he allowed me to have a lot of control...he became voiceless...we became parents of three boys (8, 6 & 3)and the distancing began...I was unhappy and frustrated...he worked and 'helped' with the children...he 'helped' around the house when he felt like it...he had no 'set' responsibilities you see...because if I asked...he took his merry time...if I demanded it became an argument...if I just did it w/out consulting him...it was me controlling...<p>...Now I love this man with my whole being...we had and continue to have a passionate intimate s*x life...but the vagaries of life caught us and he turned 40...and he had an EA w/ a woman who was also turning 40...a woman who has been described to me as the epitome of infidelity...(she's been married 4X's...has already slept w/ someone else not my H or her H)...and my H who is a good...good man...who never lied who despises lying...has decided that he has changed...he had to have in order to do this 'hienous' thing...to sin...and he must love her...he had to not love me... <p>...and she still makes him feel good...he calls her for support when we argue...which has NOT been a lot (Thank goodness)...usually when I am feeling weak and vulnerable and feel helpless...you see I have lost the other part of me and I can't find him...I can't even help him find himself...he is 'separated' from me...his family...his children...it is hard to talk to him...and when he calls her I know it...the wall is back up in full force and I have to start chipping away again...<p>...she is my enemy...she wants me to lose him...she wants to take him away from his family and from everything that he is...she wants him...I even intercepted a voicemail once that said she would "live in a shack and eat dirt" to be with him...<p>I already have been there with this man...we have experienced the great highs of life and the great lows...that is what life is about...and I will stand by him because HE IS WHO MADE ME BELIEVE IN FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE...<p>The truth is Hailey...you don't know the whole truth...you make him feel good and you support him against his wife...the woman he married for better or for worse...that's why the EA is not a good thing...you would want his marriage to fail and you would not encourage him to look at things from his wife's point of view...you would not encourage him to do what is necessary to repair his marriage because it would take him away from you...<p>...and I guess the biggest reason is that it diminishes you...you deserve more...you deserve someone who can wholly and fully commit to you.<p>[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: TryingAgain ]</p>

The EA will hurt his marriage because it will allow him to keep hope of continuing an affair with you. He will also have soemone outside of the marriage to run to whenever he needs his ego boosted. If he is to solve his marriage issues, he must rely totally on his marriage to have his needs filled.<p>If you will look at the list of Emotional Needs given in MB you will find that only one of them has anything to do with sex. ALL of the others can be filled in an EA. And if one believes the MB concepts. If you fill 5 of his needs (conversation, recreational companionship, affection, admiration come to mind) then his marriage will never have a chance. Sex is only one very small part of any relationship.<p>During an EA he may not be totally outside of his marriage, but at least half of him will be.<p>Another big part of the EA issue is that when his wife finds out about your affair, and rest assured that she will. He would do well to stop all contact with you. This will do two things. The first is that it will prove to his wife that he is serious about stopping the affair. If there is no contact then there can never be the argument of just how involved he is. His breaking all contact with you will show his wife the respect that he owes her. And it will prevent the affair from growing... <p>Again, put him aside. It would seem that having him in your life could only be detrimental to you. It will keep you from totally moving on.

oh believe me I know it takes away from me and I will not settle for this as my relationship - I have no intention on not keeping myself open to a full relationship. I suppose I was looking for answers as to how innocent conversation albeit - with someone you were unfaithful with - could really be a problem and for those of you've who've posted I had no idea that even when we talk about his golf score for the day - there are things that resound from that that he carries over to the home - I truly did not know that. I honestly thought he was just chit chatting with me at this point.

No Hailey, once people have an attachment it is no longer chit chat. Do you feel a little high, or good, after talking to him? Does a phone call from him make you feel better? If you care for him then I am sure it does. Well, it's doing the same for him. It's a fix. <p>You see there is a bonding chemical that our body makes once we have been intimate with a person. Women usually produce more of it then men do. That chemical makes us feel REAL good. Our bodies learn to produce this chemical every time we think of the person, see the person, are close to the person, smell them on something (like a piece of their clothing, the pillows, etc.), and every time we hear their voice. From the books I've read on breaking addictive relationships, it takes a good solid year of no contact with that person to stop our bodies from responding in that way.<p>And I can tell you from experience that there are some people that no matter how long we go with out seeing them, we will respond that way. Even if we are angry with them. Even if we never want to see them again. They call or walk in the room after 2 years, 5 years and there go the old chemicals. <p>Avoidance is the only thing that really works.

Hey Z,<p>Which books did you get that info from? Very interesting stuff..<p>Butterfly

I still feel as though OM and I are involved. We still discuss the eventuality of us being together. We discuss day to day things.<p>The other side of that is that I stopped having chatty calls with H -- because I got that from OM. It causes further distance between H and I because I do not share with him my daily thoughts and feelings. Even though my talks with OM aren't filled with love, passion, or planning -- they are still very harmful to my marriage.<p>So if you feel that your relationship with MM is a "dead-end", meaning you aren't building towards a future together; then the kindest thing you could do is cease all communication. It doesn't mean you cease caring -- you just do it from a distance.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by zorweb:
<strong> Our bodies learn to produce this chemical every time we think of the person, see the person, are close to the person, smell them on something (like a piece of their clothing, the pillows, etc.), and every time we hear their voice. <p>And I can tell you from experience that there are some people that no matter how long we go with out seeing them, we will respond that way. Even if we are angry with them. Even if we never want to see them again. They call or walk in the room after 2 years, 5 years and there go the old chemicals. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Ohhhhhh Fine! This sounds like me and my XH, Z. <p>I'd kill myself now, but I'd probably go to hell, and that would be redundant. LMAO!<p>Just kidding, but sheeeesh! I may be doomed.<p>Jo<p>[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

By the way -- I for one am happy to see the nature and quality of this thread opposed to the other!

you're right zorweb - I do get a "high" a happy feeling even when we talk about what I'm buying my nephew for chirstmas - I guess I didn't think that he does to - that's interesting - where did you find that - I've read a bit of that in evolutionary psyschology books - there was one called - I can't remember but it was about the physical reaction of attraction and our bodies - it was on the discovery channel. Anyone know what I'm talking about.