I'm new to this sight. I've read Dr. Harleys basic concept and I am just starting out.
My wife, after 12 great (or so I thought) years of marriage shocks me on 1/11 by telling me she has fallen out of love with me. She also says that there is no hope for recovery.<p>We have 3 boys together (6,4 and 2) and I just can't believe that she would want to hurt our family in this way. <p>She has instantly turned into a cold person. She says she still loves me but she's not "in love with me". The feelings i get from her are more like hate. I've always tried to be a loving husband and super dad and thought I was doing a great job at it.<p>She says she is not having an affair but I can't stop myself from wondering.<p>
Is this a common thing? Is there any hope for our family?

{{{{KBK}}} Hugs to you. Welcome to MB. There is LOTS of help here for you. First off, usually when you get that line "I love you, just not in love with you" there is already someone else. It's not a given, mind you, but you should prepare yourself for the possibility that your W is having an A. You will probably get many responses from the caring people here. There is a thread for newcomers in the "Just Found Out" forum. Read that. It points the way to a lot of other good thread here. Take time to breathe. Do a little investigating regarding a possible affair if you can. Don't know if you're a religious person, but God has the strength for you that you may not have on your own right now. Turn to him if you can. I will say a prayer for you and your family.<p>MOM

Hi KBK,<p>Your story is shared by many, many people here. I hate to say it, but you're in for a long, hard road. The good news is that you will arrive at the end a better person, renewed and ready to live at a higher level.<p>All of us betrayed spouses (BS) here have heard many things like your wife said, the typical "love you, just not in-love with you." For example, some of what I've heard over the past 4.5 months:<p>"You're such a great person, I just don't know if I want to spend the rest of my life with you."<p>"He's not better than you, just different." (referring to the other man)<p>So you see, much of what the wayward spouse (WS) says seems illogical or amazingly hurtful. And it is, because they are technically in an "addictive state". We here like to call some of what they say "fogese", given that they seems to be "lost in the fog".<p>Definitely read everything here. Follow the stories of folks posted here - you will see your situation evolve along side them. Keep focused on doing the right things. You'll be better for it in the end.

Well, I will give you a reply from my point of view... I was out of being inlove with my H long before there was any glimpse of an A. I just didnt know what to do about it...didnt want to hurt his feelings...umm, instead of telling him the truth...or facing the truth myself and working on the marriage... we just kept drifting farther and farther apart. His anger episodes deepened the rift between us..and then I doubted myself on many things.<p>Soooo, my point is.... DO NOT jump to the conclusion of an A...hopefully she is just aging and coming to terms with some feelings she has... NOW is the time to try counselling... to get at the root of the problems... before any type of A... cuz its a lonnnnnngggg road once that happens.<p>My sister once told me that many women...around their late 30's to 40's often look at their life and maybe the way they are treated...........and say...NO MORE.... at least thats what happened to me.<p>By the way... I was in a 'fog' long before the A... and I'm just now getting out of the fog and realizing what I want..and not what is expected from me.<p>good luck hon

Don't give up yet! What your wife said is all to common - unfortunately.<p>Know not to believe everything she says right now as set in stone. Her mind can still change.<p>Please do a search for some of redhat's recent posts and in them you will find links to sites for newcomers to the board. THey will explain the acronyms and give you great references to other helpful sites. There is also a post by NSR about books that you can search for which contains other suggested reading material.<p>The point is, although you are feeling an incredible range of emotions, you need to get educated on what is really happening here, so that you can make some informed decisions.<p>You'll find out that when the spouse says the things that your wife has it's a sure fire bet that there is another person involved. You should keep your eyes and ears open and possibly start asking friends, see who she's been hanging around at work etc. Check phone records.<p>But be ready when/if you discover somehting. This moment is crucial to the determination if there is any future to your marriage. You may even want to find a marriage counselor to help you figure out how to confront your wife.<p>It's important for you not to lose your cool. Read everything you can about Emotional Needs and Affairs - either on this site or read His Needs Her Needs and Surviving an Affair. This will help you. Get a support system in place. Ask quesitons and vent on this board.<p>We are all sorry that you and your family are going through this right now, but take strength in the fact that you don't have to reinvent the wheel and that there is alot out there to guide you. K

Hi KBK,<p>Welcome to Marriage Builders. I want to ditto what the others said about reading everything you can. <p>I would also suggest doing some investigation to see if there is, in fact, an affair going on. Your investigation will rule it in or out. As painful as it is, until the truth comes out, you aren't getting anywhere. Depending on her lifestyle, there are alot of things you can look at, including cell phone bills, phone card records, computer spy software. When you have a spouse who is not being open with you about things that directly impact your life, you have a responsibility to dig them out yourself. And there is alot of collective experince in that area on this website, so ask away if you need some ideas. <p>Lastly, just know that there are many here who have been or are going through the same thing you are. We are here to support you.

Dear KBK,<p>Welcome. People will be here to help you work through this.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>She also says that there is no hope for recovery. <hr></blockquote>
Fortunately, whether there is an A in progress or not THERE IS hope for recovery. It is very common for a spouse to say this in the beginning.
The process of recovery is a long one, but if you apply Plan A and learn other MB techniques, she may well change her mind.<p>My son is BS. His W said the same thing to him and moved out-of-state. He found out about the OM two months later. Although it is not always the case, the "I love you, but I'm not in love with you speech." was made because an A had begun. I hope it is not true in your case, but I agree with those who recommend that you check it out and get ready for that to be the case.<p>Take care,
Estes

Noone at this point I guess knows except her and whoever she trusts at this point.<p>I will tell you that this is EXACTALLY what my wife told me for a month before I could I guess earn an the truth of an affair. <p>of course IS possible your wife is more honest and is at least telling you now instead of having an affair first.<p>but ask questions! talk talk talk!
Part of what was missing was honest communication on her part about her feelings. <p>I had to ask my wife repeatedly throught the first month. Try some of these questions perhaps not all at once.<p>How long have you felt that way?
Why didnt you tell me before?
Why most of all are you telling me now? Did something change, did I do something, do you have feelings for someone else? All of the above?<p>If she is reluctant to tell you or she is holding back. tell her you need to know or you cant move on. Look into her eyes if you can and have her swear, its not fool proof but hey. <p>If thats all there is, try to offer MC. It can help!
If she refuses, ask her what is there to loose?
if you could get back to the happy times you had wouldnt that be worth it?
Why give up now?<p>Good luck.. sorry I hope that helps a little and isnt too unproductive. your post and your wife's words just give me flashbacks of the begining of this really TOUGH time in my life.<p>Oh forgot to mention:
the instant coldness or anger you feel is semi common I think when the spouse no longer feels she/he has to act in love anymore. Could mean the problem or issues are foremost on her mind now, or could mean she now feels she doesnt have to pretend to be in love with you instead of pining for another.
g'luck again.. Oh one other thing is if she doesnt want to seek counsling work at it on your own. Fix yourself or what she percieves as the problem.<p>[ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: HangingIn ]</p>

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.... I dont agree with the snooping around to try to find out whats going on.... I DON"T AGREE! It will make her defensive and will be a major LB... she made the first attempt to 'talk'......i think you need to continue talking and find out why she is thinking this way, etc.<p>I think therapy is a good thing too. BUT...to put a spy program on (my husband has one on me and I resent the heck out of it)...and to check every little move she makes.... I do NOT agree with that.<p>I'm NOT saying to ignore things.. keep your eyes open..but try to start opening the conversations up to her.<p>There are OTHER reasons to fall OUT of love with someone other than an A...sheeeeeeeeeesh! ok, I've said my 2cents....good luck

KBK:<p>I had to post on this one. With the exception of you having a third child, my story is almost exactly the same as yours. My WW and I have been married 5 years and have 2 children (4 & 2). In October 2001, out of the blue, she announces she does not love me anymore and doesn't believe things will work out. We were having problems like many married couples (especially with young children), but there had been no previous talk of divorce.<p>She ABSOLUTELY denied the existence of OM. I believed her and thought this was a phase she was going through. Her statements to me were hateful, and she would say the most awful things to me even in front of our kids. It was like she was desperate to leave right away. She would not consider MC. I knew there was something else going on and with some (quite a bit) of snooping, I found a romantic card and other information that clearly revealed there WAS someone else. At first she denied everything when I confronted her, and only admitted existence of EA when I showed her what I had found.<p>We are now in recovery but the first couple of months were hell. It turns out she was attracted to a coworker, they became very close as they talked about the problems they were having in their respective marriages, and she developed a fantasy that she would be happier with him. It apparently may have been on the course of turning physical when I found the evidence I sought. It was horrible. My world came crashing down and for a while I had a sense of unreality to everything.<p>The things your W are saying to you now are the same thing most BS's here have heard. It is amazing how there seems to be a script out there, hard-wired into the brain of the WS for how to respond to the faithful spouse. What I'm saying is that it is highly likely she is involved in some sort of an affair and you deserve to know. She will hurl hateful statements at you and blame you for everything, but you must try not to take it personally.<p>As soon as possible, you should seek individual counseling and try to get your W to see a marriage counselor with you. This immediatley helps put some semblance of order into a chaotic and emotional situation. Continue posting and reading here. You're not alone.

I agree with ConfusedMom in regard to snooping to a certain extent. However, I do think some snooping is initially required to get the truth out. I think the WS will not initially be forthright with the truth without some proof, but once the truth is out, trust must start. Don&#8217;t forget, if WS is having an A, she is under the influence of a very powerful addiction and WS will have difficulty doing anything to jeopardize the relationship. However if you want to save your marriage, all covert action must stop after this. By-the-way, I think nobody should hire a PI or tap phones. If we&#8217;ve gotten to that point, we are as bad as the Gestapo.<p>Background for my response&#8230;
For a long time after OM was exposed I left spy software on the computer, check phone records, etc&#8230; I was honest and open about it, but all this did was solidify WW&#8217;s anger toward me and drove her affection away from me and toward OM. Another thing it did was change me, or in other words change the way I acted around my W. Frankly, I was no fun to be around and a real pain in the a**. It drove me crazy worrying about what was going on behind my back and it drove her nuts looking behind her back.<p>I know it appears like I&#8217;m going in circles, but my point is, if healing is to occur, WS cannot continue to live a secrete life. However, once the truth is out and an agreement is reached, trust and mutual respect must be a part of the relationship. After that point, both parties should willingly agree to apply "The Policy of Radical Honesty" and then stop worrying, if anything is going on behind your back, you will eventually find out anyway. Hold each other accountable and keep your eye&#8217;s open, but try not to let any thought of things going on behind your back or the fear of being used enter your mind. Believe me, this line of thinking does more damage to the BS than the WS. <p>Remember&#8230;
Returning the love to your M is the only true way to assure an affair proof M or to recapture a love lost. In my view, trust is essential to establishing love, because it shows you respect for your spouse. Nobody wants to be treated like a child.

There are two types of knowing. One is you know in your heart. THe other is knowing in your mind. The two often conflict with each other. You will find that while the heart knows something is wrong it will also not want to let the mind believe it. The answer my friend is to seach out the truth. You my have to resort to things you dont really want to do-spy-tap your owm phone-hire a PI-check her email. But you need to seek the truth you deserve to know the truth. I will forwarn you the truth can be really hurtful. The truth will set you free to make informed decisions. Knowlege is power. You will hear more BS than youve ever heard in your life if something is going on. The lies and deceit will drive you crazy. It can get to the point where you will wonder if your wrong or loosing your mind. The truth, however gotten, is what you need to know good or bad. I wish you the best of luck on your journey

There is absolutely nothing wrong with snooping when you sense vital information is being withheld from you. A spouse DOES NOT have a right to the "privacy" to destroy thier spouse. Snooping is only a LB to the guilty, I might point out.<p>Any spouse that feels like thier partner is cheating has a responsibility to protect themselves and part of that is finding out the TRUTH. When your spouse is working AGAINST your best interest, you need to protect your best interests even it means snooping. <p>Plan A does NOT mean that you sit by idly and let your spouse trounce all over you unbidden. Again, NO SPOUSE has the right to the "privacy" to destroy thier spouse. <p>Snooping on an unfaithful spouse is no more WRONG than the FBI snooping on the mafia - it is their RESPONSIBILTY, just as it is your responsibilty to protect your interests against someone who is out to harm them!

KBK:<p>I think the general concensus here on snooping is that it is OK and even necessary if you are not being told the truth about A, but once you have uncovered the truth, it serves no more vital function. At that point, I agree snooping should cease. The only exception is when WS agrees to no contact with OP but you again have reason to believe contact is continuing. Once again, after you find your answers, snooping probably serves no further purpose. You are entitled to know the truth. If you do not, you may be living a lie. More importantly, you will not be in a position to protect yourself and family.<p>Hope things are going OK for you. Please let us know.