Firstly i want to say i appreciate your thoughts and comments and advice...esp the couple of you who have been emailing me and being there for me. Even if you are not aware of it, you have become the friends that i never had and it means a lot to me that u have been there and that u have been supportive and esp with helping me with my self-esteem and with helping me get better....<p>Its been a long night and H and i just had another bad LBing session....what does LBing mean anyway? is there another word to describe it? Arguing sounds wrong and fighting sounds too violent. Whats the word to describe something between fighting and arguing?And just how much is too much anyway? Is the WS supposed to take it all in and not have emotions or feelings towards it? Is the WS supposed to just let BS LB and just shut up? Even if bad things are being said, even if in anger?<p>H and i just had another one like that tonight....this past week for me has been very good for me bcos i have been honest for the first time in my life....with my history of compulsive lying, i am surprised that i am capable of this amazing breakthough. I have been doing a damn good job but hey, thats jst IMHO.With all that i have done to H in the recent past, it does not seem to matter to him what i have been trying to be and do this past week.....after all, he says "its only been a week" and that i have been lying so much whats a week to him....<p>I understand what it has done to him and how much he has been damaged and hurt and betrayed and killed and "kicked in the nuts" so to speak and everyday i look at him, i am reminded. Everyday i go to work i am thinking about it. Everyday i breathe i am working on it....but now even me breathing is something that H has just said is what sparks him off and triggers memories. What should and can i do? I have been told many times that he has to go through his own healing and that i have to give him time and patience....i am doing that but i am also trying to help him in any way i can....i feel all alone in this just as he does. But tonight another trigger was set off and it was right after we made love! So that really hurt me and am i not supposed to feel hurt just bcos i am the WS? Am i also not allowed to have feelings on this or emotions?<p>Reminding me when arguing of what happened and what i did to him is something i know will be there for as long as we are working on this....but he says things to me that makes me feel like i am not going to be able to help him, no matter what i do. I have read his posts on wanting to hurt OM and i have already told him what i feel about it. Many of you have done so too and i agree with what u have been saying. But no matter what we say, he is still going to want to do what he wants to and we cannot stop him. He has to have his satisfaction and his closure his way. And i cannot stop him. I cant help feeling that maybe he should do something to me cos i am the core of the problem after all....i did say also that i didnt care if he did anything to OM bcos if it will make him feel better and make him feel like the man that i take away, then by all means, do it. Having said that, he called me a "pee on"....<p>i am venting now bcos i have no where else to go vent and i know that u are there to listen to me. I dont want to come across as being "poor me...listen to me...my H is LBing..." i just want to vent out what i am going through. i am not being selfish now, i am just being a human being who has feelings and who knows that she has done major wrong. Maybe i should just shut up and swallow it.....i just feel like i shouldnt be allowed to have the privilege of having feelings about this bcos i betrayed my H. yes, his feelings come first which is why this whole thing started tonight. I knew that after we made love that he was mad so i asked him what was wrong and he said "what do u think?" and it went on from there.....<p>This is hard and i dont expect it to be easier...but i am hoping that somehow we can work on this together as a couple. I know he loves me even if he love meter is only at 20%. Thats better than nothing....thats something i can work on building. But he is like a time bomb and something like this tonight makes me feel like we are not going to move on and get any further...he always says to me that to move on we gotta take 2 steps forward and one step back or 4 steps forward and 2 steps back and so on.....i just feel like we havent taken many steps forward and plenty back....<p>I need help guys and perhaps more of you will be able to talk to my H about this too...i say that bcos i have my counsellor every week and he has been helping me too....my H doesnt have a C, only this site and those of you who have been emailing him. If u dont hear from him, it does not mean that he is doing any better as i am sure u already know. i dont want OM anymore nor do i want to be with him. H still thinks i do and i dont blame him bcos i have been leading OM on with my words...i only did that bcos i wanted to keep that door to my other life open. That door is closed now and the key to that door has been permanently destroyed....how can i work on whats happening now? How can i feel better about myself? How can i make H see that i want this to work out? How much more LBing does it have to take?<p>Please let me know u are listening..... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Alright Dear, Hang in there, we are listening.<p>OK, my WH got to the point you are at and after listening to me cry and grieve and constantly bring it up for 2 months, he finally had enough too. He was tired of my constantly bringing it up, out of the blue, and quite often during our most intimate moments. <p>So here's what we decided to do. We only talk about the OW or the A during 1 hour a day. (you can adjust the amount of time to fit your needs). I the BS agreed to only talk about it during this hour and he the WH agreed to answer all questions honestly, and not get upset during this hour.<p>Believe it or not this has worked wonders for us, and quite often we go a day without discussing it at all. He still works with her, so every evening we begin our hour with any contact he had with her during the day. If there was no contact, our discussion is usually over immediately. If he had to work in close quarters with her, then we may actually go over the hour. But it has freed up our time together to be spent without her in the middle of it all of the time.<p>Let your husband in on my experience as the BS. If I let it, the A will eat me alive. Limiting myself to this hour has helped me not dwell in the A all of the time. It has helped me not create questions and hit him with them as soon as I see him. Instead I can greet him at the door with a hug and a kiss instead of tears and a stupid question about the A again.<p>And remember, us BSs need to know that we can talk about the A. However, after a reasonable time, it doesn't hurt to limit us (BSs) to not constantly talking about the A.

I wanted to add that i am encouraging H to confront OM. It will help him as long as its civil without any roughing up. I dont know if an email to him is a good idea but a meeting will help my H inside. i am still worried bcos i know how my H can get and i dont want things to get any worse. So i thank you for your advice to my H and if there is anyone else out there who can help him with this like what should he write in his email to OM or what should be said, even if its to put the "fear of god" in him or make him anxious, do post him.....

DAMN!!!, if I didn't know any better I would have thought my WW wrote that word for word except for seeking out the OM part.<p>I'm just replying to tell you that your situation is not unique and I WILL BE looking at the repsonses to see if "I" can change to avoid some of the things you and my W are going through.<p>SERIOUS CONFLICT-another word between argue and fighting.<p>On the other side of the picture and this is directed towards you and my W. I believe that yes you have to take it to a certain extent. But if your H is like me, and I know this, it doesn't always have to get out of hand. Honestly, I think or recall that we have only had 3 discussions about the affair that didn't feel like fighting or arguing on the bad end of the spectrum. Also, we have fought right after sex, it triggers me because of the knowledge that my W did exactly what we just did with someone else. We BS just can't help it sometimes.

jamup, thank you...u responded so quickly...i am not alone...<p>since i have been going back to work this past week ( i am not sure if u have been following our story but going to work has been a problem bcos i have been calling OM at work even after i said i wasnt) H has been asking me questions as soon as i walked in the door. If that doesnt happen, we will sit down after dinner and washing up and talk about it. That has not happened in the past couple of days...it has only been a week and a week is not a long time. It seems long to me bcos i have been lying all my life and have been honest this past week so to me its a major step in the right direction.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Limiting myself to this hour has helped me not dwell in the A all of the time. It has helped me not create questions and hit him with them as soon as I see him. <hr></blockquote><p>i will suggest the an-hour-a-day idea to him (we will work on the time limit of course) and see what he says. However, what u said above is different for my H...u see, even after we talk about the A, he is still dwelling on it bcos almost everything we do or almost anything i say has a trigger....but i will try suggesting to him and see what he says...tks!

posted by wwl:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>SERIOUS CONFLICT-another word between argue and fighting. <hr></blockquote><p>thanks....that sounds like what it is...it is rather mild though cos it sure didnt feel like a serious conflict...but i see how it can also be that.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I believe that yes you have to take it to a certain extent. But if your H is like me, and I know this, it doesn't always have to get out of hand. Honestly, I think or recall that we have only had 3 discussions about the affair that didn't feel like fighting or arguing on the bad end of the spectrum. <hr></blockquote><p>I believe that too wwl, and i am happy for you that u only had 3 discussions about the A....thats where u are not like my H i guess....also, most of our fighting or arguing has been on the bad end of the spectrum but only once did it get out of hand....dont worry, no physical beating or anything like that....just a little pushing and shoving...nothing serious. But if that didnt happen, i wouldnt be here posting my recovery bcos what happened jolted my senses back to life and reality.

GM:
Sorry about something I said, I meant to say that we have had only 3 discussions that didn't result in arguing or fighting. We have had more discussions about the A than I can count, almost daily or at least every other day. The first 2 1/2 months it was basically everyday, the last month it hasn't. I feel that the more is answered and that I can except as fact or get through my thick head helps in getting over questions. The more time goes on the less questions I have. Until I have no more questions, we'll still have discussions.<p>I did physically abuse my wife on D-Day. It was the very first time in my life that I have ever became violently angry. That scares me now, because now I know that I have that in me and will that part of me ever become triggered again by either my W or D's. I now am in C for "anger management control". because of that. I don't want that to happen again. NEVER!!<p>Another thing, ask your C if it would be possilbe and helpful for your H to attend. I'll explain my situation: I set up IC for me and my WW was going to go to another IC for her childhood sexual abuse (found out about that the day after D-DAY). After a couple visits by myself, IC asked for me to bring my W next time. We found out that my IC accepts her insurance also. W hadn't had a visit with her IC yet so W did set an appointment with my IC. W did it also because she felt very comfortable with the C. It's nice to have my IC and W's IC as OUR MC. That way we don't have to tell so many different people how we are feeling or thinking. It just seems so much easier and quickerthis way. Sorry, got carried away. What I am saying is, your H may benefit hugely from going with you, if you want him to.<p>[ March 23, 2002: Message edited by: wrestlingwithlove ]</p>

GM:<p>Interesting situation. I wish you the best!<p>I wonder if my own situation, and the troubles I'm having getting no contact out of my WW, might be due to the fact that the angry outbursts come from HER, not me. I don't outburst at all. I do all the eggshell and doormat work in our household. <p>She yells pretty much every time something bothers her. I think now that her outbursts account for the better half of the problems in our M. So I have a tough time dealing with this.<p>Many WS's on this site immediately agree to no contact and show a great deal of remorse for having an A, no matter how intimate they appear to have been with OP. Sure, there are upsets when they give in to temptation to contact OP, or OP contacts them.<p>But in our situation, my W gets very angry with me for even wanting to know about contact with OM, and yet she clearly gets scared when it looks like I'm ready to throw in the towel and give up on the M. Discussing no contact really ticks her off, and my IC advises I put it on the back burner for now, but it's getting to be a big elephant, maybe even a Blue Whale, in the room with us, and I'm going to have to deal with it at some point. <p>Sorry for getting off the topic of your thread, but the differences in WHO in the M is doing the LBing, relative to who the BS and WS are, caught my attention. Any others out there like me?

So what exactly is your question?<p>Are you wanting to know how to get your H to stop LBing you?<p>If I understand your question, all I can say is that you can never ever control another human being. Ever. That's one reason why lying is so awful...because in addition to an attempt to control on the part of the liar, it also deny's the victim knowledge and choices.<p>The only person that you can control is you. So, what you have you to do is be extremely careful to avoid ALL LBs with your H. That's the part of your marriage and your recovery that YOU are responsible for.<p>If he asks for advice on these boards about LBs, I'm sure others, including myself, would have advice for him, but since this isn't his thread, I'm only addressing you.<p>While its not OK for him to LB you...his anger and hurt and outburts are a direct consequence of your own actions. So, if you want your marriage, you are going to have to suck it up, to a point. But you aren't even close to that point yet.<p>Honestly, he doesn't know, and neither do we, if you are being honest yet. Until he can start feeling like his feet are firmly rooted in reality (based on your honest actions backing up your honest words), he's not going to trust you, and the LBs will probably be very frequent.<p>I'm going to also suggest that BOTH of you stop focusing on the OM. I think that your encouragement of your H's confrontation is simply a method to keep a connection with the OM. It keeps the OM out in front, distracts both of you from recovery and the real issues you need to deal with in your marriage...NONE of which involve this OM. He was simply a symptom, and you both are giving this man way too much power.<p>You certainly have absolutely NO business trying to keep this OM in your life, even if it is by encouraging your H to confront him. If you are honest about recovering your marriage, then any contact, including this kind of stuff, can put you back to square one in withdrawal.<p>Frankly, I get the feeling that you aren't even close to done with the OM yet. There's more than a few things that you have said on other posts that don't sit right, but I'm going to once more give you the benefit of the doubt.<p>Good luck.

I agree with BR that you are nowhere near being finished with OM. Things you have said in other threads show that your cutting off from OM is so complete and simple while your contact with him was so complex and sneaky. The two do not match. If you are through with him why has there been no posting from you about how you may have thought of him after or about how he has tried to contact you? Do you expect us to believe that you haven't wondered why he hasn't tried to contact you and that he has not tried?
Your H has described your contact as ALOT. Are you telling us that he hasn't contacted you at all especially after your no contact request? Most OP would make an attempt at contact and in your case OM knows that your H would try to have you issue no contact from your own words. Why wouldn't he try to find out if your no contact request was truth or coersion from your husband? I don't buy this.
Your H is lb'ing now because he must feel this uncertainty or maybe he just can't accept what has happened right now. If we can pick up on this from reading your threads I am almost sure he can.
LB'ing is no good to either of you and I may even suggest that your H has not forgiven you for the A yet. but in his state of confusion and uncertainty I can't blame him.
I saw OW yesterday in the post office. Here's what I did. I phoned W immediately after contact and explained that it was nothing and that although OW tried to talk to me I said there was nothing to say and to please leave me alone. Later on last night W and I had a huge fight and LB'ed for about over an hour. In the end she thanked me for my honesty and it felt good.
GM in this situation would you be this honest with H? If OM contacted you or you happened to run into you somewhere would you rush to tell H?
I would suggest that you continue to plan A and work hard. If you have been honest the past while and you can continue he will pick up on it eventually. You must understand that the A lasted a long time and that your contact with him was extensive you completely lied to H about it. On the one hand you were faking a real recovery and on the other you were "stringing OM on." BTW this is another thing I take issue with. How can you say your contact was about stringing OM on when you need not have done that with your H and you in recovery? Why did you need to string someone on when you had what you say you really wanted? Makes no sense to me GM.
H will not let go of this for some time if there is still dishonesty or nondisclosure he will not get over it and you are setting yourself up for a failure. People pick up on lies GM and know when they are being faked. My W hasn't recovered completely yet and it's been 9 and 1/2 months since no contact.
IMHO you should not encourage H to contact OM. That is just bad politics GM. In any case of this from your point of view it shows that you still want OM in your life in some capacity. Not good. Why do you wish for more dramatics with OM?
After all I pray for you and H. Do the right thing now and it will get better slowly. Godspeed Geneveve
FallingD

All of you have posted very good points, advice and questions and i want to reply to them....<p>wwl wrote:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Another thing, ask your C if it would be possilbe and helpful for your H to attend. <hr></blockquote><p>I have only had 3 sessions with my C and H has attended a couple of those for about 15 mins. i am not sure it has helped in any way bcos my H is actually a very private person and he is uncomfortable speaking in person to a stranger about our personal problems. but i will encourage him to carry on seeing my C with me as much as i can. By the way, its strange that u mention that too cos last night during our 'serious conflict', i suggested to H that he sees a C too....but hey, thats all i am going to say about this cos i believe i have been told that this is my thread and not my H's so i have to discuss only my issues.<p>2long, i am glad that my thread brought on questions for you and you R and that perhaps there might be others out there who would be able to give you sound advice on why your W reacts the way she does. It is still too soon into my recovery now for me to give you my 5 cents worth of advice so i will leave it to the experts. But i just want to say this....dont be a doormat or walk on eggshells...it never does come to any good. i was walking on eggshells with H so much that i broke them all eventually. I feel that she needs someone to talk to and that she needs to vent esp since she gets angry all the time. I am angry too and i can understand her losing it whenever u ask. But eventually i had to sit with myself and listen.<p>Ah, BR, welcome back....been waiting for you... once again, thank you for your openness and i am sorry if the questions i had sounded vague to you. You were right about my question on LBing and i guess that led to other issues as well....but u have brought my attention to them and u raised very good questions and points.<p>BR wrote:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The only person that you can control is you. So, what you have you to do is be extremely careful to avoid ALL LBs with your H. That's the part of your marriage and your recovery that YOU are responsible for.
<hr></blockquote><p>I am and was not in any way trying to control my H nor stop him from LBing me. Yes, i agree that i am the only person i can control and that is what i have been doing....even if its been a little over a week. Does avoiding LBs with H mean that he can LB me without me saying anything in my defense? My recovery IS my responsibility. I am aware of that...i guess my question was if LBing is alright for H bcos of what he is going through and bcos its a "direct consequence of my actions", then am i supposed to sit in a corner and cry? Am i not supposed to have feelings about this at all? Yes, i have wronged him in the worst possible way. But i am recovering and i am trying and in my eyes i know what i have done and will have to do....but i also know that i wont let H LB me while i sit in a corner and hang my head down low. I am working on my self esteem and some of the things he calls me does not help in that dept. Only i can help myself.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> So, if you want your marriage, you are going to have to suck it up, to a point. But you aren't even close to that point yet. <hr></blockquote><p>i have been sucking it up but like u say, to a point and last night i had to defend myself bcos it got to that point. You have no idea what point i am at with H or how far he can go when he is pushed and when he loses it....and if i am not even close to that point yet, what would that point be then?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I think that your encouragement of your H's confrontation is simply a method to keep a connection with the OM. It keeps the OM out in front, distracts both of you from recovery and the real issues you need to deal with in your marriage...NONE of which involve this OM. <hr></blockquote><p>Well, i am sorry but u thought wrong. My encouragement of H's confrontation is only bcos i want H to get over his need for confronting OM. Its long time coming and he needs this. I have said to H, dont see OM or meet with him or confront him and H asks if i am trying to protect OM from getting hurt. Which is not the case whatsoever. Thats why i encouraged H to confront OM bcos i want him to know that i am not protected OM at all. i agree with you totally when u say we should stop focusing on OM...thats what i have said to H too last night but he does not want to take his focus away from OM until he is satisfied that he has got what he deserves.
Once again thank you BR for your blatant openness and i always eagerly await a response from you!<p>FD wrote:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I agree with BR that you are nowhere near being finished with OM. Things you have said in other threads show that your cutting off from OM is so complete and simple while your contact with him was so complex and sneaky. The two do not match. If you are through with him why has there been no posting from you about how you may have thought of him after or about how he has tried to contact you? <hr></blockquote><p>yes, this is an issue that i would like to touch upon as well....i can see how the 2 dont match. How i can cut OM off so completely when all i have been doing was contacting him with complexity and sneakily. i have not thought of OM except when i am in town with H bcos i dont know what would happen if we bumped into OM. Thats the only time i think about OM, also when H mentions OM or talk about him, thats when i think about him. Hard to believe? well, thats what its been like. I have been putting my whole attention to my recovery and to my H and i do not even bother if OM is hurt by this or why he hasnt tried to contact me. I really dont expect him to contact me after that last call i made and if he hasnt, then that would only mean that he never really cared to start with....who cares. I sure as hell dont...i have caused too much pain and he has played a part in it but i am still here trying to mend the wounds while OM is out there carrying on with his life.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Do you expect us to believe that you haven't wondered why he hasn't tried to contact you and that he has not tried <hr></blockquote><p>I dont expect anything from you. But its the truth when i say that OM has not tried to contact me nor have his friends do so which i assume would be something he would have done if he still wanted to.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Are you telling us that he hasn't contacted you at all especially after your no contact request? Most OP would make an attempt at contact and in your case OM knows that your H would try to have you issue no contact from your own words. Why wouldn't he try to find out if your no contact request was truth or coersion from your husband? <hr></blockquote><p>HE HASNT CONTACTED ME AT ALL and i am not surprised. I can see how unbelievable that sounds but its the honest truth. He has pride too i am sure and he has his whole life ahead of him to look forward to and better things to do than to contact me again esp after what i said to him in the last call. i am assuming that he is not trying to find out if my no contact request was not coerced by H bcos he takes my word for it and bcos i have not initated any form of contact since.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>GM in this situation would you be this honest with H? If OM contacted you or you happened to run into you somewhere would you rush to tell H? <hr></blockquote><p>Yes i honestly would. I would do the same thing. I cannot let this happen to H again nor to myself. There has been too much pain and too much time lost between H and me. I am looking ahead now to a better and honest life. There is always a chance that i might run into OM esp bcos the area where i work is the main shopping street and where everybody goes to in S'pore....and i know that if i run into him, that i would be wishing H was there with me and that if he wasnt i would be calling H on my cell phone right after.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>How can you say your contact was about stringing OM on when you need not have done that with your H and you in recovery? Why did you need to string someone on when you had what you say you really wanted? <hr></blockquote><p>Thats where i am seeking help and counselling for....thats where my dysfunctional personality comes to play. I have always kept doors open for when i wanted or when i felt that there was a chance when the person in my life at that point was going to leave me. Doors have always been open and its so easy to do that esp if the OP believed and hung on to every word i said. yes, it does not make much sense and talking about it now makes me feel terrible and ashamed about myself and my C knows about this too. I enjoyed the power i had when it came to stringing someone along. The fantasy and the other life that i have always enjoyed having had to stop which is why i wanted to make that call to OM in the first place. It could have been anyone else, it just so happened to be OM. And although its unbelievable that i have not contacted OM or OM contacting me, well, i have dumped him and i will not ever want to see or hear from the person i dumped and vice versa i am sure. i am sorry if it all doesnt make sense to you or anyone else.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> IMHO you should not encourage H to contact OM. That is just bad politics GM. In any case of this from your point of view it shows that you still want OM in your life in some capacity. Not good. Why do you wish for more dramatics with OM? <hr></blockquote><p>I can see where u and BR are coming from with this....and i hope that my explanation for encouraging H to confront OM made it clear why i want am doing so. It has got nothing to do wanting to keep OM in my life. NO goddam way. The dramatics has been and gone for me bcos i am doing this right now with recovering. i wish i could not have OM in this at all but thats far fetched cos it was with him that all this started. I dont want to discourage H from confronting OM bcos when i did the lasst time, he thought i was trying to protect "the little sh**". So i encourage him and support him with whatever he wants to do to OM. But deep down i wish he would not and that he would leave this male testosterone drive to want to hurt OM bcos its not going to help.<p>Keep posting......i am here and waiting for more advice....thank you all....

Gen ~<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I am aware of that...i guess my question was if LBing is alright for H bcos of what he is going through and bcos its a "direct consequence of my actions", then am i supposed to sit in a corner and cry? Am i not supposed to have feelings about this at all? Yes, i have wronged him in the worst possible way. But i am recovering and i am trying and in my eyes i know what i have done and will have to do....but i also know that i wont let H LB me while i sit in a corner and hang my head down low. I am working on my self esteem and some of the things he calls me does not help in that dept. Only i can help myself.<hr></blockquote><p>Ok, let me be more clear. It is absolutely NOT alright for him to Lovebust by verbally abusing you with angry outbursts, disrespectful judgements and selfish demands. My point was though, that you can't make him stop, and so as long as your choice is to stay in your marriage, this is part of what you have to endure for now. It *is* a consequence. And believe me, as much pain as you are feeling, it doesn't even come CLOSE to the torment that he is going through right now.<p>However, you also have the same choices he does. As I told him several weeks ago, he absolutely has the right to walk out on the marriage as a result of your actions. But so do you. At any point, you can say: I will no longer subject myself to your abuse and I am leaving.<p>You aren't a victim in this anymore than he is. You BOTH made choices that got you where you are today.<p>One of the first things that Steve Harley puts into place when you counsel with him at the start of recovery is the Rule of Protection. Have you both read about it on the website? Here's the link: Rule of Protection. You are responsible for protecting your husband from your own weaknesses. The same goes for him. He does NOT get a "free LB" card during recovery.<p>You both have to put down the weapons in order to recover this marriage. <p>When he starts in on you, you don't have to sit in a corner and cry. You can sit and listen to him. He needs your validation and he needs you to really "hear" just how badly he is hurting. If it becomes too harmful to you, then you can get up and leave the room, and tell him that you'll be back to listen when he can avoid verbally assaulting you. But do it calmly and respectfully!<p>I just want to point out again that often lying is a method of control. It may be based on fear, or based on selfishness, or a number of motives. But all the same, it comes down to needing to be in control of a situation. <p>What has been revealed to your H is that YOU have been in control of your marriage all along unknown to him because he was denied information about your activities, your character and your weaknesses. What you have to adjust to is the fact that you aren't in control of this recovery. All you can do is make choices for yourself. You are choosing to get help for the compulsive lying, which is good. Hopefully you'll be able to get to the underlying roots fears that drive your need to lie.<p>But you also have choices about this marriage and you have choices about what you do in your half of the recovery.<p>When my H and I tried to recover the first time...I did all the work (I was the BS). I chose to recover my marriage, and he did not (although he said he did). When I decided enough was enough, I was able to file for divorce, knowing that *I* has done everything within my power to take responsiblity for MY half of the marriage. I could look my kids in their eyes and tell them that I had done everything possible to save our family. <p>I couldn't control the outcome, but I could control ME. That's where you need to be right now. Working on your part, and leaving your H's half up to him. You do have a choice at any time to decide that you won't live like this, and walk out. But if you want your marriage...you are going to have to wait some of it out. It should be temporary.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>So i encourage him and support him with whatever he wants to do to OM. But deep down i wish he would not and that he would leave this male testosterone drive to want to hurt OM bcos its not going to help.<hr></blockquote><p>There's a difference between actively encouraging and simply leaving it up to your H to deal with as he sees fit.<p>I agree with you that his need to confront the OM is not helpful, and is in fact very harmful. If you are following the Policy of Joint Agreement, then you should not be agreeing to anything that you can't enthusiastically go along with. The same goes for him. I would continue to encourage your H to seek out counseling.

BR -<p>just wanted to say thank you for your advice and comments. I appreciate your openness and understanding and look forward to hearing from you again. I will look into buying that book you recommended. There is another book that i am going to buy that H and i heard about on tv and its call Self Matters by Dr Phil. I dont know if you have heard anything about it....<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You aren't a victim in this anymore than he is. You BOTH made choices that got you where you are today. <hr></blockquote><p>Thats the first time anyone has said that to me and its good to know that i can be able to feel and hurt. That its not wrong for me to have emotions just bcos i am the WS. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> There's a difference between actively encouraging and simply leaving it up to your H to deal with as he sees fit. <hr></blockquote><p>Then should i be supporting H with his confrontation or not? i do not agree, not bcos i am trying to protect OM, i dont really care. But its more to do with what will happen if and when he does confront OM. If it means he will have closure, if it will make him feel like a better man and it will regain some of his pride and manhood that i took away, then why should i not encourage him to do so? just wanted to ask bcos i am still not sure how i should be with this issue.... [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

bump.........

bump again.....

Hi Gen ~<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Then should i be supporting H with his confrontation or not? i do not agree, not bcos i am trying to protect OM, i dont really care. But its more to do with what will happen if and when he does confront OM. If it means he will have closure, if it will make him feel like a better man and it will regain some of his pride and manhood that i took away, then why should i not encourage him to do so? just wanted to ask bcos i am still not sure how i should be with this issue.... <hr></blockquote><p>How about if you just step out of the issue? Tell him that he can do whatever it is that he wishes, and then let it go at that.<p>Honestly, I don't think he will find any healing or closure in confronting the OM. He's sense of manhood has been completely violated and I understand that he is trying to regain that by this show of force, but honestly, if it wasn't THIS particular OM, it would have been someone else...am I right? The issue isn't the OM as much as your H would like it to be - because if its about this particular OM, he can control it by scaring this one off. <p>Unfortunately he is going to find that he can't stand guard over you 24/7 with a show of aggressive defense of his territory. And the fact of the matter is that the real issue is you and your choices. <p>I think Just Learning tried to convey that to your husband, but your husband is pretty much determined to confront. <p>Perhaps you both might get some more constructive responses by posting over in the recovery board instead of here. While there are several recovered marriages here, most of the people that will respond here haven't actually experienced the recovery stages of the affair. The general consensus over on Recovery is that focus and/or confrontation of the OP is really not helpful. Instead it tends to leave open doors for renewed contact, keeps the focus off of the marriage and usually allows the OP to say and do some incredibly hurtful and destructive things to the BS.<p>But anyway, this is more for your H than you. I think that you just need to tell your H that you don't think it will be helpful, but that you will not interfere or oppose him in however he decides to resolve this issue.

no time to respond BR, will later. In the meantime I am bumping.... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]