WWL<p>sorry to hear about the card. you were right to confront her with it, even though it hopefully may be pidally...<p>you are right to bring everything out into the open with her and ask her to do the same...<p>about that cliff.... yes, I know.... unfortunately, I found myself wanting desperately to go meet w/my first love (who contaced me just out-of-the blue a few weeks ago...) I even had a dream about him prior to his first e-mail and woke up thinking, WOW, that'll never happen... then when he wrote after the dream, i thought he must be my soul-mate for life... reconnecting at a time when my h has used me and tossed me aside... a time i needed him most... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>even despite the MB principles and the wonderful advice here on the boards, i have written back to him.... many times in the last couple weeks... (i'm soooo sorry everyone [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] ) he asked for the absolute truth, and i told him i've been hurt and in a struggling marriage (more than even here, because i have not even told our saga yet ....) <p>i even told him i still loved him, and OUCH.... what an incredibly stupid mistake... <p>I was going to go and meet him one night "TO TALK" after work... he even said he's gained lots of weight since high school, but we have this increadible, fun relationship, and i truly do not think it would bother me at all if he was 3000 pounds. LOL. my heart is on the rebound, for sure, and i need to cool it... <p>anyway, he, being smarter and more in control than i [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] wrote back and said that he wants to see me, but there are so many emotions he does not know what to do... he's afraid - are we going to be good or bad he says, and then the good 'ole concience struck and i wrote back and said he was right... we cannot meet...<p>sorry to bring all of this up on your thread.... one minute i am up [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] and the next day it is as if my dog just died... <p>you hit home with me because i've been trying so hard to change for an H i feel will never love me the way i want to be loved... to love me for who i am... then i go about faking all this garbaaaaage that i'm not feeling, hoping it'll spark some kind of flame in that place that has been dead for so long that i've forgotten why, why did we marry in the first place????...... trying to love someone who i fear i will not ever learn to trust again....<p>i smelled perfume in the bedroom yesterday, and even though it was mine, started looking around for more evidence. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thanks for letting me ramble.<p>[ March 30, 2002: Message edited by: jamie 210 ]</p>

jamie 210,<p>Does your H want the M? Does your H love you? Is H willing to change (like I am trying)? Will he discuss the A with you? If he is or has answered Yes to the above, I would seriously back away from your first love. You cannot just "fall off that cliff" because of what is happening right now. It will not help. The only thing it will do is make you see what it is like to be non-monogamous. What else will you get out of it? That's what you should ask yourself. Would there be any longterm benefit from doing it?

WWL <p>Does your H want the M?
I think he wants the "package deal" like Sad Dad described. (thanks SD) he's a definate cake-eater... i don't think he thinks i'll go through with D... we are in an absolute financial mess, i am the breadwinner and i think he has had a difficult time with that... if i ever do go through with the divorce, i don't think i'll even push for child support, just get a roommate or something...... career-wise i am strong (but i bet you cannot tell from my sorry posts [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] )... emotionally, i am a mess... he is also very prideful...

Does your H love you?
i don't think so, i don't truly think he even loves himself...<p>Is H willing to change (like I am trying)?
definately not trying like i want him to, like you and others here are trying... i.e., he would not bother with a lot of things, like going to church with me and the kids, like cleaning up his language around the kids, like not fighting around the kids, like telling me things to build me up, etc... like talking to me about the A...

Will he discuss the A with you?
no, withdrawn from me... and thinks i will never get over it, which may be the truth [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

If he is or has answered Yes to the above, I would seriously back away from your first love. You cannot just "fall off that cliff" because of what is happening right now. It will not help. The only thing it will do is make you see what it is like to be non-monogamous. What else will you get out of it? That's what you should ask yourself. Would there be any longterm benefit from doing it?<p>You are absolutely, 100 right... i am just grabbing at straws and fantasy that do not exist... the guy i talked about is also now married with children. he has also said that last year was the absolute worst year of his life.... (i can relate...) and he wants to talk to me about what happened... maybe he is a bs too, who knows... maybe he just wants to hear all about my probs... dunno... but i need to just cool it... i wouldn't want to cause anymore pain on anyone than has already been inflicted (except for maybe my H [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>i am soooooooo down on myself, and so very quick to respond to loving gestures, praise... someone could just look me over in the elevator and i'm ready LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i just want to go meet my first love and have him tell me, WOW, he has done this to you with that mess of a woman.... , WHY??? that's all i really want..................<p>but i'm pretty horney too, thinking about things.... I want to try the JELLO thing with him you see............. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JUST KIDDING.... <p>Honestly, I just wish i could do that wrestling thing with my H and no ghosts... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thanks for listening...

jamie 210,<p>your response to : will he change. You described me to a tee, except I wan to talk about W's A.<p>You are so down and very quick to respond to loving jestures: You just set yourself up to have an A. Since your H wont say those things (just like I didn't to my W), you will "fall" very quickly for anyone who will say them because it will have built you up and thus making you feel better. Maybe my W should be telling you this part! You are seriously going to have to decide how much building up and affection you want from your friend without it getting out of control.<p>H is withdrawn: do you have the answer to as why?<p>Your'e horny! We all are. Some just a little more than others. LOL. I tell you what, I'll descirbe the time in my life where I thought of having an A. It was shortly after first child and W was not interested in sex (I found out why after child #2, post portum????, I hope you know what I'm talking about). I thought about other women a lot, especially ones from high school, thankfully I'm 1800 miles from that area. I told myself it wasn't something I really wanted to do to my W and thus I never put myself into a position to be alone with any female I knew, thus not having the chance to. I, a little ashamed, took care of myself to relieve SF. Would I do it again, absolutely!!!!!!!! I wouldn't want the pain I am going through to have my W go through.

wwl,<p>I feel like you are yelling at me, OOOOUUUCCCCHHH... SO, thanks... you are soooo right... I absolutely do not (this morning anyway, LOL) want the eye for an eye thing while poking out some other person's heart...
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your response to : will he change. You described me to a tee, except I wan to talk about W's A.
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can you tell me sometime why you did not try before the A... I know the feelings of being fake and phoney in trying now, because i am there.... but why did you not try before? you are wrestling with love, so it is not as if you did not lover her..... so why did you become withdrawn from her before?
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You are so down and very quick to respond to loving jestures: You just set yourself up to have an A. Since your H wont say those things (just like I didn't to my W), you will "fall" very quickly for anyone who will say them because it will have built you up and thus making you feel better. Maybe my W should be telling you this part! You are seriously going to have to decide how much building up and affection you want from your friend without it getting out of control.
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yes, you are right... and part of me wants to fall, so i can say his name rather than thinking about hers whenever i have to have sex with my H... sorry..... i know it will only hurt everyone, and my kids have indirectly been through enough... (I have two, the ages of yours) i won't do it, but feel i am already in an EA that started even before it began...
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H is withdrawn: do you have the answer to as why?
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just found out recently that OW is still contacting him, and i have not decided whether to put an end to all of this or get out...
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Your'e horny! We all are. Some just a little more than others. LOL. I tell you what, I'll descirbe the time in my life where I thought of having an A. It was shortly after first child and W was not interested in sex (I found out why after child #2, post portum????, I hope you know what I'm talking about). I thought about other women a lot, especially ones from high school, thankfully I'm 1800 miles from that area. I told myself it wasn't something I really wanted to do to my W and thus I never put myself into a position to be alone with any female I knew, thus not having the chance to. I, a little ashamed, took care of myself to relieve SF. Would I do it again, absolutely!!!!!!!! I wouldn't want the pain I am going through to have my W go through.
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LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow, you have so much strength to not hurt your W, even now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YEA!!!! that is an absolutely wonderful trait that you definately want to hold on to. GOOD FOR YOU to not give in to unforgiveness, vengance...

I am going to go get some toys this weekend, seriously [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>what i said on my last thread about wanting my friend to tell me how terrific i was, and what a mess she is, is not true... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] she is an officer in the U.S.A.F, up tight and out of sight... i am a product writer who (usually, but not lately) works very hard early in morning and late at night so i can be there when my kids need me.... yes, tired and burning the candle at both ends... my H was forced to leave Officer training, not because of the A, which i did not know until later, but he did not make if for other reasons... he now is back at home, and i just found out that she has been e-mailing him... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>i did not have one man over to my house during the entire 3 months he was gone... took care of two little ones, went shopping, paid bills, mowed the grass, cooked, cleaned all so when he could become an Officer.... none of what i thouhgt was going to happen did......<p>i, on the other hand, did, before the A, feel attractive to my h... i worked out, even during both pregnancies, and have tried not to let myself go.... <p>but, the OW has everything together, i have trouble finding my teeth (oh wait, i'm not there yet, but i'm sure i will, when the time comes, have to look around for them...) she has only to take care of herself... i have to take care of all of us, including an h who i feel just using me, and now send him juicy e-mails, have sex with him and her ghost, build him up when he is not trying....<p>but now my H is home, he is not working right now, and says if he was a mental case he probably would have had a drug lab in his basement and killed us all... very violent temper right now with being "kicked out" of OTS and no solid career... <p>and i do this all for what? I am not sure...<p>but, really... i am definately not innocent in this... probably would have already had an A to build myself up if i had the time and energy and was not popping out kids, after putting myself through college, after starting my career.... i had a very painful EA one time that would have probably turned PA if he'd not told me he did not love me, want me for marriage, and i figured out i was only to be an unpaid prostitute to him...<p>i have been hurt all my life by people trying to have power over me.... and i have hurt others indirectly with my low self esteem and baggage from the past...... <p>if all of this makes any sense at all, i'm so glad.... I'm sooooooooo sorry to have done this to your thread, because it was a truly great topic... <p>anyone else who wants to chime in, please save WWL's thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>maybe you should write and answer your first question along with us... what do 'ya think?<p>[ March 29, 2002: Message edited by: jamie 210 ]</p>

Jamie 210,<p>Yelling, I would not do that. I am just speaking a little louder than normal.<p>I withdrew from my wife because all I ever asked from her when were in courtship was honesty and loyalty. I never got either. She started lying within a year of us together and we were already pregnant. So I dont exactly want to back out yet. She wanted hugs and kisses, well I wasn't going to give them until she was honest. Just when I thought about showing her affection, she would lie again. I have gone throught at least 1 serious event with W every year since we have been together, except this past year, 2. I still did love her, just dont think I was is love with her. I've made remarks before (and W has heard this) I dont have a wife, I have a sperm bank. God, how much of an [censored] was I?<p>Toys probably wouldn't hurt. LOL.<p>You are doing all this.....for yourself!!<p>I am now trying because of what I did to my W also, physical abuse upon discovery of A. We have since, I mean I found out she was sexual abused for many years by her stepfather and there are just a lot of things about my W and myself that create this huge circle of things that need to be dealt with. What kind of H would I be if I left or had a revenge A now. I need to find out the type of personmy W will become and then decid if it still what I want. We are truly trying hard and only time will tell.

WWL,
Yelling, I would not do that. I am just speaking a little louder than normal.
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[img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] okay, i can take it...<p>I withdrew from my wife because all I ever asked from her when were in courtship was honesty and loyalty. I never got either. She started lying within a year of us together and we were already pregnant. So I dont exactly want to back out yet. She wanted hugs and kisses, well I wasn't going to give them until she was honest. Just when I thought about showing her affection, she would lie again. I have gone throught at least 1 serious event with W every year since we have been together, except this past year, 2. I still did love her, just dont think I was is love with her. I've made remarks before (and W has heard this) I dont have a wife, I have a sperm bank. God, how much of an [censored] was I?
________________________<p>i understand the withdrawl...
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Toys probably wouldn't hurt. LOL.<p>You are doing all this.....for yourself!!<p>I am now trying because of what I did to my W also, physical abuse upon discovery of A. We have since, I mean I found out she was sexual abused for many years by her stepfather and there are just a lot of things about my W and myself that create this huge circle of things that need to be dealt with. What kind of H would I be if I left or had a revenge A now. I need to find out the type of personmy W will become and then decid if it still what I want. We are truly trying hard and only time will tell.<p>_______________________
i wish i'd have the above type of discussions with myself... what kind of person am I, etc... you are a much better person than me, for sure... like i said, i have not been at all innocent in all of this... and now i'm just wanting someone to fill this big hole in my heart & i need to look within myself & GOD to do this...<p>as far as physical abuse, that is too bad about her past.... do you have a past of abuse as well?<p>oh well, thanks for putting me back on track... I'm not even going to go near my friend now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<p>thanks soooooooooooooooooo much for all your help..<p>NOW, back to your thread... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>--------------------

<p>[ March 29, 2002: Message edited by: jamie 210 ]</p>

Jamie 210,<p>You can contact me personally about things that probably shouldn't over the MB site.<p>Contact me through my W's e-mail and I'll get back to you shortly.<p>djenn76@hotmail.com<p>wrestling with love