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Posted By: shocked1 Friends & Family vs. Our Marriage - 10/29/08 09:00 PM
My H and I have recently decided to save our marriage after his A that resulted in a OC which we currently have no contact with . I find it very interesting that it was much easier to get him to cut his ties to the OW and OC than it is to cut his ties with a friend ( his friend) that is coming between our marriage .
His friend and I have never quite hit it off because he just not my type of person. To much of a busy body but I have always tried to remain corgial to him out of respect for my husband under the condition that he never talks about our personal business with him. Well over the years he has shared info with this person that makes me very uncomfortable and would make me uncomfortable with anyone. I am a very private person and never would share my personal problems with others except for my H and my mother and with her it still is very limited when it comes to my H. I have asked him on repeated occassions not to share anything with this man especially since I have been the victim of his gossipiness and I have expressed to H how it makes me feel. All he needs to know is we are happy , you are great and I am great and that is it. Well he hasn't and it has gotten him in trouble with me over the years and has caused his friend and I not to really get a along and we have just tolerated each other for H's sake . His friend has caused me to lose another frienship due to something my husband should not have shared with him and now I am totally mortified in his presence because my H decided to more recently choose to confide in him about his A and OC and it does not help that the friend colluded with him to keep his secret from me for more than a year.

This is why this friendship needs to be as far away from me as possible. It is toxic to our relationship. This man has a reputation for gossiping and I have been the victime of it and have witness him do it to others, he has not a happy person, he drinks to much, and when he is mad with a friend even if its just for short time he talks about them like a dog and he has the ability to put what I call a very private matter into the limelight with all of our friends, associates, business relationships, community relationships etc....that can have a major affect on our business ,relationships in the community and bring further humiliation to me and immmediate and extended family. I also do not like the people he hangs around . A lot of the people have bad marriages, are unhappy folks, gossipy, flirtatious, golddiggers, social climbers, etc...
MY H choosing to tell him about our current crisis has taken away our ability to decide when and how we will share our private lives if we choose to do so with others if that time ever comes. How can my H call this man his friend...he actually believes that his friend has kept his secret and even had him call me to tell me that he would not tell anyone.

Of course I do not believe that for one second. If I believe that I am boo boo the fool! I strongly believe he has told and as usual we will be the last to know because no one will tell you to your face but they will talk about you when you leave. I am mortified to have to deal with this especially now when I have not even come to terms with our whole set of new marital circumstances.

Due to this I want to keep this person at a distance. I do not want to be around this man , do not want to go his home, do not want to see him at events, do not want him in my home , I do not want him to hang out with him, I do not want my H traveling with him etc...He is not my friend and not my H 's friend either. He greatly offends me and what offends me more is that my husband does not respect my boundaries when it comes to this person just like with this OW. I have had it and I cannot get him to understand how much this friendship greatly offends me. It has caused me to not want to go out in public that much and if I do it is under circumstances in which I can be comfortable. It has even has me greatly considering moving to another state just to escape from all the pressure of what is going on so I can have some peace of mind. I can't seem to shake this person or the A. It is every where...every time I go somewhere, to an event or basketball game etc...he is there...grinning and he just makes me want to scream and punch him out. I am so angry! I cannot hold my composure in his presence and have to leave. I was this same way with H but the difference with him is I have access to say and do what I need to do to him unlike with his friend.

Ultimately I know this awkwardness is brought on by my husband actions and lack of respect of my boundaries ...something he seems to get now and says he will not share anything else with him in the future due to the present crisis but I have heard this story before and it is a little to late now because H has failed to protect and defend me when it mattered most especially after less serious circumstances and warnings and this time is just unforgivable and he refuses to do what I think ultimately needs to be done. The friend needs to be dropped and cut out of our lives as much as possible and these are the consequences he needs to live with but he does not see it that way.
What can I do to make him understand that our marriage must come first and his friendship last. I just do not know what to do especially when I told him that I do not want this person ever in my house again and my H tells me that he will have him over here if he wants and I should just go to another room or leave the home. He says he lives here as well and he has the right to choose his friends and have his friends come by....
Well I agree with him to some degree but when your friend is a source of contention in your marriage you should respect your marriage first and never make your spouse uncomfortable or unhappy when it can be prevented especially in their own home.
H and his friend has violated me enough and they will not violate me again. He forgets that this could have been avoided if he just would have kept him out of our private lives. So if he does not want to cause a scene in public or in my home you better keep him away from me and my home.

Advice please...what do I do with this narcisstic A..hole H of mine.

Posted By: catperson Re: Friends & Family vs. Our Marriage - 10/30/08 03:27 AM
Ok. First, I totally understand about the friend. Jerks are jerks.

That said, you run a grave risk of running your H away with your DJ behavior. Sure, you have a lot of right to be angry and expect things from your H. However, MB has a pretty good track record on ways to achieve what you need. Have you read all the concepts? About LBs and ENs and POJA? It will help you create a safer relationship with your H so that you can achieve what you need - together.
Posted By: shocked1 Re: Friends & Family vs. Our Marriage - 10/30/08 01:25 PM
Thanks for responding...

Yes I understand what you mean about the DJ behavior but it is so hard when you really only have one person ( me) that has really bought into the concepts. I have read them , I try to implement them but a lot of times I am met with criticism , and imposing thoughts from my H which leads us into a tail spin and the conversation goes quickly from calm to crazy. When there is an issue and he does not like how the discussion is turning out he becomes very defensive, critical and imposing in order get what he wants or feel like he is getting what he wants. The very behaviors that caused problems in our relationship in the first place. He is so narcisstic and does and says things usually at my and our relationships expense not thinking of the overall consequences of his example is the the A, the OC, the strained relationship with the friend and other social circles, at odds with the W , difficulty with public appearances etc... When this happens I usually turn to letter writing trying to state my case to him...usually this works after a couple of days and he tends to change his tone and acknowledging my concerns but now the tough part is getting him to do actually do something about it. What I really want to do is move out of state and start over. I need a new start. He has crapped on so much of my current life that I need a fresh start.

Yesterday the friend situation came up again . We were suppose to go somewhere ( a concert for Obama) and I found out at the last minute that he was going to be there. I opted out and stayed home. I expressed to him why and how this issue regarding the friend needs to be resolved and he seemed to be more receptive to discussing it and even apologized for threatening me with his presence in my home.

I just cannot continue on like this with any aspect of my life in which he gains at my expense. It withdraws massive love units for me because it makes me feel that my feeling do not matter and I am not the priority which make me feel that there is no true care or concern on his behalf and I cannot trust him to protect and defend me. He has failed me! In order for me to stay in this marriage it will require a new social order and total restructuring of our relationship and how we deal with each other and others externally.

Thanks for listening and as always I will try to get him to read the books for the 100th time and I will revisit again as well.
Posted By: catperson Re: Friends & Family vs. Our Marriage - 10/30/08 02:02 PM
When I came here a year ago, I thought like you. That I had to get my H on board and want to fix things. You can't do that; it doesn't work. You can only change yourself. When he sees you change, he may or may not respond in kind. It's a risk, but it's the only action you can take that might get you what you need.

Telling/asking him to read a book is a DJ, it's telling him he is messed up and needs to change. Would you do that if he told you that you were messed up? Not likely. You'd defend yourself, even argue that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

The way MB works is this: First, find out what you do that he doesn't like (Love Busters, or LBs), and stop doing them. Do that for about a month. See if things get better. That will probably include not mentioning his friend, no matter how you feel. Just give it a try.

After you have done that, find out what his Emotional Needs (ENs) are, and make sure you are meeting his ENs. Keep up a concerted effort to do these two things, and I can almost guarantee, he will soften his stance, stop arguing, and even start trying to see how he can please you. It really works.

Also, try to incorporate 15 hours a week together, doing things you both enjoy. Add a lot of talk in there - safe talk, not about the relationship. Get the tongues flowing so he feels safe talking to you. Once you get to that point, you can start discussing your important issues and he won't feel defensive, but rather cooperative.
Posted By: MyRevelation Re: Friends & Family vs. Our Marriage - 10/30/08 03:20 PM

This is NOT an EN issue ... it is a BOUNDARY issue, and it is pretty simple to address, "IF" you are serious about getting this person out of your life.

You simply tell your H:

"I am not at all comfortable with your continuing friendship with XXXX. I can't force you to do anything. However, I can protect myself. Therefore, if you continue to allow him access into OUR lives, then I will remove BOTH of you from MY life"

My FWW, Fogfree, had a toxic BF that encouraged her A, and I had to take the same action described above. Luckily, our MC also agreed with my perception and Fogfree dropped contact with toxic BF and ultimately sent her a NC letter as well, on her own accord, after she had removed herself from the friendship and saw for herself just how toxic this friend's attitude and influence was.

You only have control of what you do. So the question becomes, what WILL you do to protect yourself.
Posted By: shocked1 Re: Friends & Family vs. Our Marriage - 10/31/08 06:04 PM

Although toxic friend did not encourage him to have the affair H was able to convince and justify that himself with the manipulative encouragement (seduction) of the OW on his own. My H confided in the toxic friend after the A was over ( actually H ended it on his own out of guilt and thought he was going to get back to life as usual until the OW told him she was PG and was keeping the child. That is when things got crazy for him and the guilt became to intense and felt he needed someone to talk to and he chose him...why I do not understand but oh well and the toxic friend helped keep his secret. To me this is just as bad because it is like condoning what he did and causing additional harm to me and our children by putting off the inevitable. Bad decisions all the way around and I guess I want to know why for someone that has such a selfish and gossipy reputation why did he find safety in him and knowing how I would feel about him telling him my personal business knowing the rocky relationship between the toxic friend and I. Yes there is lack of respect of my boundaries but there is something else there that attracts my H to this type of person and that is what I struggle with as well. Why play with fire when you do not have to ?

Overall I like your point of view and will have that same discussion with him over the weekend and again with him and the counselor next week.
Posted By: catperson Re: Friends & Family vs. Our Marriage - 10/31/08 06:40 PM
My guess is that this friend accepts him, but does not judge him. When he looks at you, what does he (your H) think? That he has to be careful what he says to you? He has to filter what you know? That he can't tell you everything? That you expect a lot from him? That you feel safe to call him out on stuff simply because you're married?

If any of that is true, he is naturally going to go to someone else, especially about an OW and OC! I'm sure he wondered at some point if he should tell you and immediately thought, 'what, am I crazy?!'

H doesn't care what friend's character is like; all he cares about is that this guy is there for him. Sometimes that's all that matters.
Posted By: shocked1 Re: Friends & Family vs. Our Marriage - 10/31/08 07:47 PM

Interesting perspective I will have to give this some thought.

But I still question his motive knowing his reputation. He may feel that he may not judge him but will leave him out to dry for others to judge him. [censored] he was judging himself and was disappointed with himself and still is.

Yes I can be judgemental ...but [censored] who isn't about certain aspects of their lives....and you he may have gone to him out of fear of me judging him because he knew how I would feel about this and because of how I felt he truly believed I would have left him ( his own words to me) and he did not want to take that risk because he knew it was just a matter of time before the inevitable to happen and he was trying to postpone it.

I am not a perfect person and I mistakes as well but I have always been open and honest with my H about what I stood for , how I stood for it and where he stood with me good or bad and always let him know what I expected from him. My husband is not perfect and have accepted him in a lot of ways that even surprise me in regards to his personality , how he deals with things , his family ( much drama) and have made sacrifices for his sake and our families sake but never intentionally tried to gain some sort of gratification or have some need met at his expense.

The A ( he was warned about - an old girlfriend that always would find away to check in with him from time to time to see how he was doing and where she was in her life especially after a relationship did not work out and I told him early on that she had different intentions for him and if given the opportunity would jump on it to get what she truly wanted -him- which she did -she got him during rough patch of our marriage- by being accomodating, being the shoulder for him to lean on by being his friend) and this OC ( an intentional outcome of the old girlfriends-which she admitted- taking advantage of the opportunity by becoming vunerable and having weak boundaries- he had given her to trap him and get him to be with her) and the toxic friend ( a person that we had run ins with before about other more hurtful issues but still damaging) . Flat out violation against me and my boundaries and when issues would come up about my boundaries or the lack of respect he has for others or me I always told him why it was an issue for me, how it made me feel, asked him to put himself in my shoes and why he should not do it due to certain consequences and to please not let these types of issues escalate to things that are detrimental to me or us or even him and if it does I think I have every right to be judgemental because he was already warned via in depth , hurt feelings emotional discussions not arguements about what his actions say to me and how they make me feel and how it changes compromises certain aspects of our relationship in regards to trust , honesty, loyalty, intimacy, safety, and sex. These are the consequences of his actions and whether he did not want to be judged by me or not he had a moral obligation to tell me regardless...and he truly did not want to be judged why didn't he seek out a true third party that was a professional that truly would have tried to help him instead of making his , this situation worse.

So did he come to me afraid of me being judgemental or afraid of my reaction due to the history surrounding the circumstances...I think more so the reaction of me leaving!
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