sessions with Steve Harley and the plan - Marriage Builders® Forums

i had my first session w/SH this am and he was very encouraging that i sound like i'm doing what needs to be done. i wish we would have more time to talk but he never cut me off to say he had to go. I do think the first session should be at least 90minutes but that's another story.

i did have a few questions (well just a few main questions) that i wanted to get feedback on after i gave our history. one of it was that i had considered calling my FIL to find out if he supported me in fighting for my M and find out what he knew (about the A). SH said that all interested parties probably already knew about the A and didn't think it would really help my H at this point. So i'll sit on that for awhile.

i also wanted to know if i should move back to our house. SH said that i should be were my M is and i can't really work on things if i'm not there but not to do anything yet. i told him one of the things about my hesitation to move back was that if/when my H decides to give us another shot that what a better way to ensure NC than to move to another state (where I already have a job)? so i'll sit on this for awhile too.

other was how to approach my H on counseling w/SH. he suggested to go on the premise that it would help history from repeating itself and help me move forward in my life, that it could be used as an experiment or an idea to try out. i also wanted to know what or how SH would talk to my H. he said he would try to be on more of an intellectual level from an objective point of view (versus try to talk w/feelings and logic).

so i feel good about the session but can't afford another one until april 9th. i'm going to reserve that $ for my H's counseling. not that i think i've learned all i need to learn but i know where to get the information or how to get support, my H doesn't. he's basing his future happiness on our past. so we'll see and hopefully he'll get on board. i just have to slowly try to chip away at the walls that have been put up and do the best plan A i can right now.

[ May 14, 2004, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]

roughroad,

Thanks for posting that. I really enjoy posts that describe how SH approaches a situation. What an amazing ability to grasp the big picture and center in on what needs to be done! He has such clarity of thought.

I can certainly see why he'd say you need to be close to your H if you're going to work on your M. Did he say why you shouldn't do anything just yet? What are you waiting for, and what are you supposed to be doing in the meantime?

thanks turtlehead for the reply! of course i'm really just guessing but i think he wants me to wait because i haven't been in plan A for very long, I'm supporting us financially right now, and to see if H will agree to counseling on the 9th. that was the feel that i got. believe me if i thought that moving back would help RIGHT now i would be there and if SH told me yes, you need to go back start planning, i would put in my notice and i would be gone. but he said to wait so i am. but he knows that my M is my priority now.

i had been somewhat limiting contact w/my H because i didn't want to seem clinging or needy or feel like i'm pushing him but now that SH says i really need to keep in contact w/him (ie. more than what i've been doing). i did however, just spend a week at our house last week but my H didn't stay there, he said it would be easier if he wasn't there (yeah, i'm sure it was easier). so i'm going to use my best judgement (w/MB help) and start initiating some contact more, whether it be by phone, email, or mail.

i'll definitely let you guys know how i'm doing!

Roughroad, it does seem that you should be at home in order to give it the best chance. I am also counseling with SH. When I asked him how he would propose to get my W on board he mentioned the children. He was going to ask W wouldn't it be best for the children to live in a home where mommy and daddy are in love? That's powerful stuff and even my W couldn't refute it. He is very patient and I would agree excellent. One thought I have for you about the money. I would allocate money from a reserve fund if such fund exists. This may not follow the POJA but in the end you can explain to H that you considered this more important than childrens college fund, retirement or rainday fund or any other fund that you might have. If none of that is workable what about borrowing a few bucks from parents or in-laws. I suggest this because you simply want to give your M the best possible chance. If SH represents that chance you need to do what you can to make it happen. After all if things fall apart, divorce is going to destroy college,rainday and retirement funds. And no I don't work for our sponsor.

WOE

Roughroad, I too consle with SH. I feel very comfortable talking too him. He is very calm, not like a lot of people here rushing me to Plan B. He told me that I need to lay the foundation for a Plan B. he has plans for me. So you hang on there, just to listen to his opinion. You come here to vent. All opinions are appreciated, but you need to pick the ones that fits you, otherwise, it will drive you crazy.

I don't know your financial situation. Do you have children? Did you consider refinance your house to cash out some money?

I know what anybody says here is because they are just trying to help so if you do a little "advertising" it's okay w/me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

the fact is that the money just isn't there. we don't have any savings or anything like that. my dad just started a new job after being off work since before christmas and they just don't have the money either. my mom said she wasn't going to be able to send me any cards for awhile (money is really tight). don't think my IL's have it either, my H's dad is almost 73 and is still working. my H does have an uncle and aunt that are pretty well off and i have thought about calling and talking to them (i've always been on good terms w/them) but other than christmas cards haven't had a lot of contact over the past few years.

i've even considered and applied for part-time jobs on the weekend. like stocking at a grocery store. i'm a bachelor prepared nurse w/military experience and didn't get any replies from a stocking job! but maybe i should start looking again. isn't walmart always hiring?

part of the reason why i've gone more away from moving back is that i think my H would think i'm just trying to control/manipulate him and i don't want that to come across. a big part of our M consisted of me continually making decisions w/out him and just doing what i wanted to do. so i'm trying to change the mode of behavior and right now just don't think it's the right time. now ask me again in 2 weeks after my H will hopefully talked w/SH.

i've already talked to my supervisor about moving back and asked if they have any jobs like what i have around where our house (i have a really good job and it's a new position) she said don't worry about whether or not they have this same job there or not, just get a job and go from there. she's been very supportive and feel truly blessed i've had her support.

anyway, i need to get cracken at the want ads!

lost,

no kids, but lots of bills. we don't have a lot of equity in our house we bought it brand new in dec. 1999. we did try to refinance it once and things you have to are application fee (it was $200), we have to have a new estimate and land survey since we've done some improvments and that is between 2-400 dollars, and then of course my H would have to agree to refinance and right now he just wants to sell it and get on w/his life.

Roughroad, OK you do counseling at whatever pace is comfortable. I thought moving back is a step in the right direction but only if you can Plan A in that enviornment. I have been trying to get my ship turned in the right direction for a long time. That is how I would look at things, no so much with an eye on the goal but rather an eye on the direction. I think as long as you feel things are going in a positive manner you can be more patient. Eventually this fog thing has to wear off and then you need to be in the best position to heal. I think we BS's are in a position to assist the fog lifting by doing the right things.

RR,

I don't know how much equity you have in your house. The reason I aksed is that mortgage is my part time job as my own business. Depending on your credit, income and the value of the house, you can cash out or ref without paying a penny. That is how most of my clients did. you should look for those who don't cahrge. But I do require $300 deposit and most of them do. The money is returned at closing.

Another suggestion is to get a loan from your retirement account.

just started a TSP in december 03. pretty sure i don't have anything i can take a loan against. thanks guys though for all the suggestions. looks like i will either have to get a part-time job or borrow money. of course, i would be saving $400 plus a month by not paying a rent and a mortgage payment. i guess i could always sell blood/plasma <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> just kidding.

late yesterday i discovered my H changed his email password, i hadn't really anticipated this. i think i need to have another session w/SH soon. i was going to reserve $$ for my H to have a counseling session w/SH and i still will but i think i will ask a friend to borrow some money so i can have another session before/if my H has a session w/SH.

^

well i was able to get the limit on my credit card increased so now i'll be able to afford some more sessions. of course it's not ideal to put more on my credit card but the situation i'm in is not ideal either. hopefully, i can talk to SH tomorrow, friday, or monday at the latest. this time the session won't be mostly one-sided now that he knows my "story."

got my hopes up a little, i have my 2nd session w/SH tomorrow morning.

well, i had my 2nd session w/SH this morning and i had all the questions/topics i wanted to discuss w/him already prepared. we talked about a lot but i'll try to summarize the best i can, don't know if he (SH) read this he would have the same summary but oh well!

we talked a lot about my H talking to SH and how would the conversation go. my concern was that i felt the only way my H would agree to talk to SH is if i approached him that it was to help me. with that being said, if my H got on the phone w/SH and he (SH) started to talk about any M stuff then my H would think I manipulated him into talking to SH. Of course SH is a well-trained professional and would know what to do and say but i still wanted to know what he would say. basically he said that he would be planting seeds of doubt w/my H and ask my H what it will take for him to be happy. SH would ask my H about ideal situations (loving your wife, being happy in M) and go from that standpoint and even though it might take time to see the growth at least the seeds would be planted and my H might begin to see some doubt in what he's doing, what he thinks will happen if he came back, etc.

i asked SH if he would talk about me w/WH and he said it all depended on the how the conversation went but yes he might discuss that i've realized i needed to make changes, etc. I asked SH if i should ask my WH how the session went and he said it was up to me but that he woould probably just leave "that" alone for now. I asked SH if he would discuss w/me what was said by WH to him, and he said he would for the most part to help me get an idea of where my H stands and what he (SH) thinks would be the next steps.

i also mentioned moving back to our house and what my concerns were with that. because i had made so many decisions in our M (big and small) and basically did whatever i wanted w/out regard to how my H felt that i felt if i moved back to our house that my H would just perceive this as another thing i was doing w/out regards to his feelings and that it was what i wanted. SH agreed for the most part because as far as my H is concerned right now is that he doesn't want to work on the M and I need to concentrate on painting a good picture of myself. adhereing to the changes i've made (not doing just what i want among other things). Also that if i did move back that i may not be able to sustain the feelings i have for my H and if i were there and knew he was still seeing the OW i might start to resent him etc.

of course, i'm still confused about a lot of things but something in particular was doing a plan A and simultaneously doing things to intervene to end the A. SH said that often in addiction related situation intervention (by family/friends persistent push that what the person is doing is wrong & they are hurting people) can help but often is not the case in infidelity even though that is an addiction as well. that having the spouse actually be the one that is pressuring the "addicted" spouse most often just pushes them further away.

as a caviot to this i mentioned again the involvment of my FIL (I'm still trying to think of things that can be done to help bring an end to the A). this time though i asked what if my mom were to call his dad. SH said i would have to be careful w/this because if it were to be known that I asked my mom to do this then it would probably not be good. however, if i told my mom if she wanted to call my FIL and compare notes/see where he stands, etc. that it was up to her (wink, wink) and then i could honestly say i didn't ask her to do this. it might could give me some real intel of how his family stands.

i asked SH if there was another MB seminar being planned besides the one in CA the end of this month. he said that tentative talks have been about the seminar be in july in minneapolis but nothing was planned or definite yet.

so based on all that we talked about today, this is what i'm going to do:
1-continue small contact w/my H
2-talk to my mom about talking to my FIL but leaving it up to her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> honestly i don't know if she would feel comfortable doing this but think she would if she felt it would help me.
3-not make any decisions to move back to our house for now
4-try to get up the courage to talk to my H about him talking to SH and NOT get my hopes up about it.
5-continue to plan A, paint a good picture of myself by sticking to the changes i've made and not let what my H does or says affect me because he is in an addictive state and not thinking clearly.

i'll continue to keep you guys posted. not sure when my next appt will be. prayers to you.

RR, I got similar advice from SH. In contras with many advice I got here. he simply tell me that I should NOT do too much to pressure to end the A, which will push him further. So I don't know what I did was right or not. I kept telling OW's H to push to. Well, I think that we have to follow one advice, instead of many.

Sounds like a good session RR. I'm trying to figure out what I need to write down for my session with Jennifer on Tuesday could you give me an idea of what you wrote so I can do it this weekend? I don't want to go into the session unprepared. I just sent my W a little email. The guy I work with like's Neil Young and Bruce Springstien and I can't stand them and she knows this. The email was Bruce and Neil ahhhhhhhhhh make it stop make it stop. Smile. Nothing to major just a quick email of course she could be blocking me but I doubt it.

thanks lost, it definitely is hard to decide which advice to follow and what not to. I think i've been doing a little of both but i am sure that SH knows what he's talking about and his advice is specific to our situation, which i think does have a lot to do with it (no kids, OW is single, etc.)

tinman,
well i can give you some of the questions or topics i wrote down but i'm not sure how they apply in your situation. i can't remember all that has happened in your situation. mostly that 2/11/04 is the worst day in our lives so far but hope it will be the last.

anyway...some things i was going to talk or did talk to SH was.
1-if i should send a letter that i wrote to my H that listed reasons why i love him (he said no because he's "numb" right now and wouldn't have an effect but to keep it for later)
2-if my H agreed to talk to SH what would he (SH) say to him?
3-discuss my concern w/mixed signals, in other words, how to fight for my M w/o being clinging, talking w/H about talking to H to help me but when H gets on the phone the talk goes to M w/SH, what would moving back home say based on our past history of me doing whatever i wanted.
4-talked about my parents and my IL's involvment
5-experience w/reluctant WS attending the MB seminar
6-what to say when my H says things like "whatever you do it won't make me come back," "if you love me, you'll let me go," or "realize, i can't go back."
7-the fine line between being too eager/nice, making changes, and not LBing.

Hope that helps, i basically just wrote down stuff that i wanted to "get" from SH but of course didn't ask or talk about everything. I would pick just 2 or 3 questions that you definitely would like to get "answers" to before your next session. because the first session is mostly going to be you telling her your "story." and you are limited by a time factor. good luck and let us know what questions you come up with. maybe that will help come up w/other questions and if you can't get answers to all of them, save them for the next time. good luck!

Thanks RR that's what I needed to know. Thank you so much but if the first session is going to be our story I'll wait till second session to ask my questions. I think some of my questions will be should I change the locks to the house back to the old locks to show her that I want to trust her. Whenever she comes over to talk she ask's me if she could use the bathroom. I tell her that she doesn't have to ask it's her house too but she says no it's not you changed the locks and i feel terrible everytime she says this. One other little thing I did was when she would use the bathroom she would use the one off our bedroom well there was only one pillow on the bed last time she was over so I have put 2 pillows on the bed now and maybe she might think something is happening. If she asked though I would tell her the truth that i just use it to help me fall asleep, I used to wrap my armes around her at night to sleep so now i wrap my armes around the pillow it helps but it's not the same.

[ April 02, 2004, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: The Tinman ]

my concern was that i felt the only way my H would agree to talk to SH is if i approached him that it was to help me.
Doing it this way is how he (Steve) suggested I should approach my ex.

He started by explaining a bit about MB principles.

with that being said, if my H got on the phone w/SH and he (SH) started to talk about any M stuff then my H would think I manipulated him into talking to SH. Of course SH is a well-trained professional and would know what to do and say
Yes, he kept the conversation along the lines of what were the problems as she saw them (so I could understand and change for the better).
He did'nt try to convince her that she should stay married (that was her reservations about talking to him. Same with most ws)

But yes he did do it in a way to "plant the seeds" a such.

thanks chris, do i understand correctly that you and your WW are not together anymore? curious that if the "seeds" were planted by SH what happened.

do i understand correctly that you and your WW are not together anymore?
Hah!

curious that if the "seeds" were planted by SH what happened.
I doubt it. But I'm a "special" case. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Here is my story briefly.

Met in 11th grade. Started dating in 12th grade. Got married 6 months after graduation (1980).
Both of us joined military. She got out after 4 years, I stayed in.

Two girls, now 18 & 13.

She had affair beginning in October'ish 98 with wankstain who was in area for only a month or so.
He moved out of area just before Christmas 98.
I found out Christmas night 98 about 2 previous affairs (2 & 9 years after marriage).
Next night I found out about wankstain.
She moved out (across the US) to live with him 5 weeks later. Took only 1.5 suitcases.

She calls the girls a few times a year. Usually 6-8 months apart.
She has only seen them 3 times since she left (just over 5 years).
I have only spoken with her for a total of maybe 15 minutes in the last 3 years.
I have been divorced since Jan 02. I received everything. House & contents, cars, bank accounts, etc.
She got to keep her own retirement stuff.

She is not even aware of the divorce.
Her family lives about 60 miles from here. I see them about once a month. We get along great.
She does not visit or call them.

As Monty Python says, "She's a loon".

[ April 02, 2004, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]

Bump for heroswife

again, i guess my question for you chris is what happened w/the seeds of doubt planted by SH? or is that she's a loon and nothing would have made a difference.

Please every one, pray for me. Wh said he is going to call SH in 5 to 10 minitues. Sh's phone is so busy, please pray that SH is able to pick his phone call. It is very critical to me.

Sorry, RR, I steal your tread.

no problem lost, and prayers are coming your way!

Praise the LORD, he is talking to SH. I was so anxious. I call the MB schedule # and ask them to see whether Wh is talking, the answer is yes. Thank you for your prayer, and keep praying for a good conversation.

I don't expect magic will happen instantly. I do hpe that SH plants a seed of hope on him. Thanks a lot. I will keep praying now.

i posted a new thread for you and let us know how it goes. you may not really know until you talk to SH again yourself but it's a start. what happened to get him to talk to SH? besides prayer that is!

I don't know how I did it. I have been praying very hard and asked everyone I know who is a believer to pray for us. He even sent me an e-mail on Fri. telling me that he still wanted a D.

what happened w/the seeds of doubt planted by SH? or is that she's a loon and nothing would have made a difference.
Yes, I don't believe it made a difference because she's a loon.
Also, as I found out, she had 2 other (and probably more) affairs prior to this one.
One at two years and one at nine years.
So I think the guilt played a BIG part of it.
She did mention she felt she could never get over it. (So how did she expect ME to "just get over it"?) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I have my 3rd session w/SH on thursday and will post how it goes. what i want to talk to him about mostly this time is to plan how i will handle the little things, big things, and a more specific plan. AFter this session it will probably be awhile before i can talk to SH again. i made an appt for monday for my H too just in case he agrees to talk to SH. please all pray that God will convict my H to agree to talk to SH if that's his will. I'll probably try to talk to my H on thursday after my session w/SH. even though it would be a small step if my H talked to SH and i shouldn't get my hopes up it would still be on the "path." and we all know that a journey of a thousand steps/miles starts with just one step. prayers to all of you.

just asking for an additional prayer in the next 24 hours. i'll probably talk to my H tomorrow about talking to SH, unless SH says it's too soon to ask him, i don't think he will but anything is possible right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

RR, I will pray for your session tomorrow and pray that you have good talk with your H. I pray that you H will talk to SH. Best.

well just had my 3rd session w/SH, of course it was good and i feel better afterwards. I always go w/a list of questions or topics to discuss. this kind of helps me get through the next appointment about thinking what to talk discuss at the next session (scenarios, etc.)

i gave him an update, not really much to say, nothing has really changed, i've mailed a payment book to my H at his request, we've talked a couple of times, and i sent him an email (he's never replied to any of my emails since i found out about the A) but we never really communicated by email in the first place.

we talked again about my H talking to SH and i asked SH if it was too soon to ask my H and of course he said no and that this kind of needs to be done w/some urgency. i told him what i had planned on saying to my H:

"i've had some counseling sessions and i am making progress. the counselor thinks it might be helpful to talk to you to find more about how i was in our M in order to help me adhere to the changes i've made. i'm not sure if i can really move forward right now and i don't want history to repeat itslef w/anyone. would you consider talking to him?"

if my H says yes then i'm supposed to ask how soon he thinks he could do that b/c SH wants to talk to me soon after they talk. (i've already made an appt for monday from my H just in case).

if he says no or that's it's not a good idea or that he can't or that he doesn't want to be told what to do, etc. then i'm supposed to say that SH is not going to tell him what to do or talk about what's going on, only that he wants to understand his (my H) perspective in order to be more effective in working w/me.

so i'm going to call my H today (pray for that please).

we also talked again about contact (how much should i have and what kind of contact I have), my concern was if i bombarded him w/stuff from me then he would think that i was clingy and needy. so i had initiated little contact and tried to keep our conversations very brief. However, SH said i need to initate some kind of contact at least every other day. i was really surprised at this. again my thoughts were of being needy and if i emailed him he may not even read it, if i mailed him something he might just throw it away. but SH if nothing else it will make him think about me and prevent him from compartmentalizing. it doesn't necessarily matter if he doesn't read what i send, it's still a thought of ME. he said to be very brief and factual and just try to convey that i am still here and see what's going on as a variable because he (my H) does not.

talked about my role/participation in the sell of our house, finances, dogs, etc. SH said to drag my feet because as long as their are "ties" then it will keep him from making a break, that when things are "clean" (finances divided, house sold, etc.) then it's easier for my H to walk away. i've already thought this for the most part, but i can't make my H give me money so i have "agreed" to separate some of the things he pays and what i pay, etc. but will be more conscience of what i do from now on, maybe even ask for money.

i should continue to chip away at things and not to worry about planning things far in the future because we really don't know how things will be like. such as i told SH i have leave the first week in may (requested before i found out about A) and that i hadn't decided whether or not to keep it or not. SH said just to hold on that and discuss it closer to that time. our 11th anniversary is in june.

we talked again about the involvement of my FIL. I said i hadn't done anything since the last session. but that i think there is still the possibility that his dad doesn't know because when his mom came to our house in feb after i had to go to the hospital, i told her there was someone else and she said that she didn't know that, that he (my H) hadn't said any of that to them. Also that my MIL hides a lot of things from my FIL (finances, movies, etc.). SH said as long as the "exposure" to my FIL didn't come from me that it was okay. i told him i was planning on calling the IL's on sunday, since it was easter and would be a good occasion to call. i hadn't talked to my FIL since the end of january and definitely not since i found out about the A and that i hadn't talked to my MIL since feb. that when i called it was basically just going to see how they were doing and let them lead the conversation but that i wanted to convey that i still love their son and that i want our M to recover because i know that whatever happens, their son is always going to be part of their lives and i can't make or ask them to do anything.

discussed the likelihood that the A will die a natural death and of course SH asked me what i thought. I said that most people here thought that given the age differences, etc. that it wouldn't last and that once the warts started coming out and the OW started to LB my H that it would end. SH said that the thing is that their R was started as an A and that can NEVER change. That part of M or R is having a mutually happy or agreeable M and that they (my H and the OW) have never had that. we talked about how maybe one of them (my H, OW, or OW parents) will begin to think about if my H cheated on me why wouldn't he cheat on OW, if OW cheated w/me she might do that w/someone else. Their feelings for each other are based solely on emotions and that my H cann't even conceive or consider that our M could work out, that's not in his equation right now. And that goes a lot into what SH talks about w/WS, what it will take to make the WS happy and about ideal situations. SH will use whatever the WS says (yes to idea being in love w/W or no don't want to be in love w/W) to guide the conversation, like using a decision tree, but all the time planting ideas or seeds of doubt w/the WS.

So if my H talks to SH next week then i will talk to SH next week but if he doesn't then it might be awhile before i talk to SH again (trying to spread the $ around). so i'm going to ask again for everyone to pray for me as i talk to my H about talking to SH and that he will agree to do so. prayers to all of you.

just wanted to let you all know that my H has agreed to talk to SH on monday. i know this is a baby step but it's a step and i'm trying not to get my hopes up. please continue to pray for my H and that he will go through with the call. prayers to all of you.

RR I've been real busy all day I've posted a few shorties. I'm glad your session went well and I hope and pray that your H will counsel with SH so you don't have to do Plan B. My thoughts ands prayers are with you.

RR,

I'm really glad that your H has agreed to talk to SH on Monday. It will be interesting to see what SH learns about where your H's mind is, and what he decides to do as a result.

Another thing about dragging your feet in selling things, splitting things, etc. Not only will it make it more difficult for your H to make the split, but since your H feels you've been to eager to take control of everything, now he gets to enjoy the fruits of you NOT taking control of it all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

RR -

I think the chances of their R working out are slim to none (with the slim side being extremely small). The age difference alone will kill this R. Not to mention the fact that all of this started as an A. SH is right (not surprising)...the fact that this R started as an A will forever remain true. I think the fog will lift.

I didn't have to give the relationship a chance to die out on it's own. I wasn't strong enough to do that and I believe I put myself through a great deal of pain because of that. I'm not saying that I wish my H had the chance to explore his A further...I do not think I would have been able to take him back after that. The fact that he had this relationship almost killed me. Most of you MBers witnessed my path of depression.

Rough I think your situation is differnt from mine in the fact that OW is not married and there are no children involved. One thing to be said about not have children is you will never have to wonder if your H stayed for the kids. That could be viewed as a high point.

I think your H is in deep fog right now but I think that fog will start to lift as the reality of "real life" starts to set in. There's no way her family will support her having a relationship with you H considering how it all began.

To think of how his family would perceive OW should only make them realize how much they didn't appreciate you. I think you get my meaning there.

Focus on the best possible outcome here. Bare with me:

Your H decides to give your M another chance. You continue your Plan A...no LBing. You show your H how forgiving you can be. You focus on meeting his ENs. He sees that and in return commits to filling your ENs. His family sees this woman who they initally rejected, standing by their son...through thick and thin, better or worse, good times and bad. They see you holding him up when he's about to fall. They realize that not only did they misjudge you because of your religion but they missed out on all those years you could have been closer to them. Your H sees the relationship you have uncovered because of your love for him and he falls in love all over again.

This will be your reality. Focus on the best possible outcome but prepare yourself for the pittfalls. During those dark times come here for support. We will pick you up and carry you through this. Trust me you are not alone.

You have the MBers and you also have a very strong faith in God. I believe God is carrying you right now. You have shown a strength that mortal man cannot take credit for. Your ability to deal with all of this and not be crazy angry at your H is a direct reflection of your faith.

I'm praying for you. I pray for you everyday. Please remember not just to pray for your situation but pray for OW. This might be hard but it will give your heart a great deal of relief. I promise. At first I wanted to pray that OW would be hit by a bus and not die but be crippled for life.....KIDDING PEOPLE...but then I prayed that God would open her eyes to the pain she was inflicting on others by her actions. After the first few times I prayed for her I realized that it was easier for me and made me feel better about the situation.

That doesn't mean that when we had the confrontation in the front yard I didn't want to pull her teeth out through her forhead....I wanted nothing more then to do that. I prayed for self control because I have very little of that.

I hope you are ok. Please keep us posted.

RR, I am glad thingd went well. I will keep praying for you. Keep your spirit up.

I feel ok, but I can't put too much hope in it. I have to work hard on myself. It is likely that he will even not be home tonight. But I want the kids to be happy at least.

Thanks all for the words of encouragement and for heroswife for you insight. I guess i would also like to say (in case i have totally confused anyone) is that my MIL and FIL have never been anything but nice to me. The only exception is the not being allowed to sleep in the same room. but truly they have been very good to me. his mom has always sent stuff to me whether it was a framed print or a card that says how thankful she was that i married her son.

they have always been very supportive of me in everything. whether it was coming to my college graduation, nursing graduation, commissioning ceremoney (my H was TDY during this time) or sending me pictures, things for christmas and birthday. even though we are not of the same religion, his father has talked to me almost as i was. by that i mean he would be talking about something and say well RR you know what it says in the Bible, or sticking up for me when i declined to participate in the marriage ceremonies of their daughters.

but i guess now i'm thinking that with what has all happened now are they maybe changing their minds? don't know. i'm still going to call them on sunday but because my H has agreed to talk to SH on monday, i really will keep it brief, mostly just see how they are doing, etc.

hey heroswife, i know you say you wouldn't have been strong enough to take your H back if it had gone further (i'm just paraphrasing) but i guess there is some truth to the saying "you don't know how you'll be in a situation until your faced with it." well it goes something like that. but look at how strong you WERE! and ARE! it is only by the grace of God through all the prayers that i've been able to do what i have the past weeks. i guess after i was taken to the hospital after i took the bottle of pills, i just finally realized that i had just done just basically what i wanted to in my life without regard to my husband's feelings, the feelings of others, and tried to a lot of times justify what i did as what God would want (because it wouldn't happen if that's not what he wanted.)

still a lot of soul searching going on but i am starting to feel good about what i'm doing. i have started to pray also for the OW and her family for the past couple of weeks (thanks to lostnhurt for telling me that's what she was doing because i hadn't really thought of it before). these people truly have no idea about the reality of what's going on. i'm not mad at the OW or her family, if i could pinpoint one feeling it would just be of jealousy and mainly because he is my H and i didn't treat him the way I should have or he wanted and she's been in the position to do that. Anyway! hope all of you have a good easter and remember the true meaning of this special holiday. Christ died for us but he did rise again! God Bless and prayers to all of you.

well had my 4th session w/SH this morning and we mostly talked about my H and the session he had w/SH yesterday. Praise God he did actually go through with it! I'm not sure when i will be able to afford another session w/SH but it won't be at least for a couple of weeks.

SH always wants to be brought up to date (since the last session) and I told him that i talked to my IL's on sunday that we didn't talk a lot but i did manage to say that i still love their son and want to remain married to him. SH has also said that i need to initiate some kind of contact w/my H every other day. so i'm going to try email, mail, phone, etc. yesterday i sent a short note that just said that there are so many things in bloom right now (trees, flowers, etc.) and that it reminded me of the time that he (my H) took some flowers and was going to "press" them (one of his cute ideas) and he put them in one of my textbooks from college and wondered if they were still there. also that it reminded me of all the lupin flowers along the road in nova scotia where we went for our 5th anniversary and what a good trip and surprise that was. then i just said i hoped this made him smile and signed my name.

now to the session SH w/my H. SH didn't come out and tell me as much as i wanted (i wanted specifics) but i'm sure SH knows what he's doing. basically (this is a summary mind you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> SH talked how my belief system has changed because of what has happened and that my H has noticed the changes but he sees it more of a crises management. my H also talked about how he tends to keep things inside and tries to avoid conflict and SH feels that even though my H has talked to me about how he feels etc. that he doesn't think that my H has truly shared how he is feeling w/me. SH has the impression that my H isn't really sure about the R w/OW that he hasn't made any long term plans but that my H tends to think that he still needs to get out on his own no matter what.

SH assured me that whatever was talked about that the seeds were planted and that's all we can really hope for right now and that i need to continue working on me and show that my changes are genuine and for a life time. that if the M ever came up between us that i am to treat that like enemy territory and need to get away from it as soon as possible (as long as the OW is still involved). but if we do talk about us that i should validate his feelings, talk about what I (the bs) have done or realized such as not meeting his needs, that i wasn't the wife he wanted me to be, etc. because when we are dealing w/a taker (which is what my H is right now) we have to represent ourselves in a way that is not offensive to the taker. normally, my H is a giver and that dealing w/a giver can be just as difficult at times. this is because it's hard to know what they really want because they are so busy giving and not concerned w/what they will get in turn that they don't share what their needs are.

SH even gave me something to say if any R talk happens w/my H or if my H asks my why i'm doing what i'm doing or why i'm not doing something (dragging my feet w/the sell of the house). SH said to say the following: "neither of us is going to be alone and yet both of us are moving on but i've realized over the past months about the things i need to be doing differently no matter what happens here. based on my realizations i know you could be really happy with me because i know why you weren't." so i'll save that for later on.

i also talked about the possiblity of visiting my IL's next month for a couple of days for mothers day. i haven't seen their new house yet and they already might be selling it. i haven't seen a couple of the nephews that have been born and other than just seeing my MIL/FIL briefly here and there i haven't seen any of my IL's for a couple of years. it was just a thought i had and that i still wasn't sure if my FIL or other IL's knew that my H was having an A or not but thought that maybe if i talked them in person we could talk about it then. I told SH that i would say something to my MIL a long the lines of "what would you think of me coming to visit over mothers day?" she said i could still visit when i talked to her on sunday. SH said that if the first reaction is sure or yeah, etc. then do it but if it's anything but that then don't visit because they will probably see that i'm trying to impress them or manipulate them in some way. If my MIL is hesitant or says anything but sure/ok then i should say something like we'll maybe it's not a good idea, maybe steve might think i'm trying to manipulate him etc. and go from there. but whether i visit or talk to them over the phone i should talk to them or bring the subject up (the A) as if they already know.

so still got some work to do, also need try and find some $$ for more sessions. but just thought i would share this w/anyone who wants to find out what SH may talk about in his sessions and for anyone who is following my story. prayers to all of you.

RR, you did a good job. I think that we are in about the same place. Let's keep encouraging each other to go through this difficult path.

Today, I went through some old files, I found two furtune cookie reading from late Jan., when this whole thing just started. Let me share with you:

Wh's: When you speak honestly and openly, others truely listen to you.

Mine: Your path is arduous but will be amply rewarding.

funny how so many things take on a whole new meaning and how almost everything takes on a new perspective. supporting each other sounds like a good idea to me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> gotta go, only have computer access at work right now but will check back tomorrow. prayers to you.

for heroswife and chris-a123 if they are lurking <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

[ April 14, 2004, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]

RR I'm happy that your H talked to SH maybe that's a start for him to come out of the A. If seeds were planted let's hope they grow and things will work out. Sounds like your session was good with SH and it's very good you were honest with your H. Stick to the plan that SH has given you, just like I'm going to stick to the plan that Jennifer has given me. I'm jealous though I like your plan better <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . I pray for you and everyone else here every night the same as you do, in hopes that good things happen for us. I don't know about you but I had a little doubt this morning if I was doing the right thing, but I know I am. Hang in there.

thanks tinman, BTW how long have you guys been M? didn't see that in your sig line or remember reading it anywhere. i definitely think there's pros/cons to our plans. but we can on do what we can do right? i'm actually more worried about our taxes right now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> H was supposed to fax the W2 to me this am and still don't have them. i have an appt at 1245 w/an accountant. trying not to get uptight but can't help think he's doing this on purpose. oh well...stay the course and prayers to you.

Just fixed it so you can see how long we've been M and together.

thanks TM, you do have heart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

^

Rough-

Sorry I've been away so long. I've been out of town for a few days. A day hasn't gone by when I haven't thought of you and your pain. I'm glad you spoke to your IL's even if you didn't address the A itself. I'm sure they see your heart when you speak to them about your love for your H.

How could you not love him with every ounce of your being if you would go through all of this for him.

Can you tell us what does SH have to say about OW's parents reaction? Did he say you did the right thing in the way you communicated the A to her mom? Did he say anything about your reaction to her reaction (or lack there of)?

One other very important question: Have you ILs met OW?

no problem sweetie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> you know i guess me and SH didn't really go into a lot about the OW's family. i mean i told SH what i did and what happened but it didn't really get passed that so i'll write that down for the next time we talk. NOOOOOOOOOOOO the OW has not met the IL's and I am still not convinced that my FIL that an A is going on. My H and the OW are in FL and my IL's live in NJ. I was stationed in FL and had separated from the AF there and then we were supposed to move to IL. I'm already in IL, have been since last october and he was supposed to join me after he graduated next month but......... you pretty much know the rest and now he's not even graduating next month, probably won't be to the end of the summer.

I can't remember exactly how SH said it, whether it was SH's impression or if my H actually said it but that there have been no long term plans made w/this OW and that my H is not sure about the R w/the OW but almost certain that getting out on his own is what needs to happen. I forgot to ask SH if they actually talked about the OW at all so i'm writing that down for our next session as well.

I tried to dance very carefully about saying anything about what's going on when i talked to the IL's because of what SH had recommended but also because my H was supposed to talk to SH the next day and i didn't want them to call my H and then cause him to think it wasn't a good idea to talk to SH. but anyway....... i guess my "plan" for right now is to continue what i'm doing of course but prepare more towards talking to the IL's in person next month when I visit. of course i would only be visiting giving the conditions SH stated, my suggestion to a visit has to be enthusiastically agreed to by my MIL.

the plan will continue to be readjusted as necessary given this or that happens. i started going to church after i confronted my H in feb and have been attending the same one and feel like it's where i need to be so i'll be going forward for membership on sunday. so i went ahead and talked to the pastor last night after church and basically told him what was going on. I mentioned MB and that i'm counseling w/them, he wasn't familiar w/them but totally agreed to the concept of if needs are met that anyone is vulnerable to an A. He also wanted to know if there was a plan and what it was because he didn't want to be supporting me in contradiction to what my counselor was recommending. so basically we agreed that the plan is wait and see, pray, and adjust the plan accordingly.

lots of stuff but there always will be. thanks for the quick reply once you got into town. prayers to you.

RR -

My feeling is that there hasn't really been much change. You H is still with OW but it appears he has no long term goals. So if he wants time alone then why is he with her? Chances are he does not want to be alone. Do you know if he has any issues with being alone?

If that is true then maybe your living in another state made me the most vulnerable. Makes sense to me but I might be way off target.

I'm glad you still have your head on straight you seem to be doing great considering the situation.

I'm glad to hear you have found a church home. Your church family will help you through this. One can never have too much support.

I'm going to recommend that you read the book Torn Asunder. I think you will find this helpful from a Christian standpoint. You might have already read this book. Just thought I'd mention it.

RR where you at in IL if you don't mind me asking I work in IL but live in WI.

thanks again HW, like i said i don't know if my H actually said that to SH or that was SH's impression (about being alone). I think to a certain extent he is "buying" his time. of course i don't know what's going on in his head but i am more inclined to think that he doesn't feel he can be out on his own until the house is sold and as far as i know it's not even on the market. i'm not stopping him from doing that but i'm not doing anything to help it along either (i never bring it up and don't say "well did you get the stuff fixed so we can put the house up for sale?"). SH in our last session said to treat any talk about us as enemy territory, like i'm out on the battlefield unprotected. so i don't bring anything up along those lines.

yes, i sincerely believe that he has issues w/being alone and has told me so in the past. when this really hit home is when i was deployed for OEF/OSW and he would email me or when i called him and he would say how he was just so stressed and would just be crying for no reason and just couldn't stand to be at our house alone. of course i didn't feel there was anything i could do from where i was but i did contact the health psychologist that was in the clinic i worked at back in the states and asked him to call my H. The group commander said that the hospital would counsel any spouse who needed it. he did go to counseling, a couple of times i think but don't think he thought it helped and i don't think it did either. i think he was having more of a reactive/depressive episode and when those go away he's fine. of course i wanted to spend more time w/him when i got back but felt i "couldn't" because he was either in school, at work, or in play rehearsal. when he was available he was studying or i was too tired or too occupied w/myself to even consider what was happening. of course now i know that he was just keeping himself busy because he was just so miserable at home (his words). I really feel my H needs IC from the standpoint of being his W, our M, and from a medical POV. but for our whole M any of the counselors that either one of us has seen (up until now w/SH) has been ones that were "covered" or didn't have a choice about due to our military involvement.

i don't really necessarily see a change in him, kind of hard when your 12 hours away. and he hasn't done anything else to prove to me otherwise. at the same time i'm not looking for him to change right now so i'm not expecting it. does that make sense? the important thing is that he has noticed my changes and i just need to keep w/those so that he doesn't feel i'm just in crisis management (per SH).

i can honestly say i will never be the same, i've had a traumatic experience and i can recover but i will never be the same. i can have a lot of the same qualities that i had when we were first married but my goal (one of them anyway) is to be BETTER and that's not just w/my M either. I truly feel that if i'm "better" in all areas of my life that it will easily spill over in my M. SH made sure to discuss w/my H that i have had a belief system change and i feel that later down the road I will be able to prove this and "say" what SH suggested, that i know my H could be really happy w/me because i know why he wasn't.

thanks for all the thoughts and insight and yes I know being a part of church is where i need to be. i really have known that all along but was hesitant because i knew i was never going to be in one place for a long period of time. but as i told my pastor last night, if i move in 2 months so be it, i'll just transfer again because i know this is what God would want and of course he agreed w/me wholeheartedly. haven't read the book torn assunder but if you (i've read others recommend it as well in other posts) recommend it, i'll order it tomorrow. I just thought it was more geared to be read by the WS. prayers to you all.

Tinman, i'm in southern IL, in the belleville area, about 13 miles outside st. louis, MO. I actually work in st. louis. this area just had such great things to offer. it was mid-west but still had city stuff and had opportunities for me in forensics and/or the medical field, and opportunities for my H who does theater type stuff. anyway, if you email me at chewey75@hotmail.com i'll tell you exactly where i'm living. what's your commute like?

My commute isn't bad, back country roads all the way takes about 20 min to get to work great scenery.

okay chris-ca123 where are you?

RR, just thinking of you. How are you doing today. I feel a little bit better. At least not much in my mind now. I love this feeling and hope it will last long.

RR how you doing today I hope things are good with you. I'm doing fine today keeping busy at work and have a ton of projects to do this weekend so I should be good to go with keeping busy. You take care and have a good weekend.

RR,

I've been following your story though missing pieces apparently - I only today read about your 4th session with SH.

First of all, thank goodness your H did talk with him! I'm sure SH did a great job of planting seeds without putting your H off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Your note about the flowers, and pressing flowers in a textbook -- that was wonderful. It is sweet, and thoughtful, and happy, and newsy, and it forces your H to recall that there *were* good times.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />SH talked how my belief system has changed because of what has happened and that my H has noticed the changes but he sees it more of a crises management.<hr /></blockquote>This seems to be a common fear among WS. Why didn't you "love" be before? And how do I know your changes are going to last - what if you're tricking me into coming back, so you can get lazy and go back to being exactly like you were? Then I'll be stuck again!! So your H is normal and healthy on that count <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Keep doing what you're doing and your H will see you in a better and better light. He'll also begin to realize that this is a permanent change.

Thanks for your updates. You have lots of people cheering you on.

You guys are so special and so good to me! I wish i could figure that darn link thing! but turtlehead i guess if you want to find out more or fill in the pieces, just do a search under my member number. i've been so touched coming here and of course contribute it all to God leading me here. It was very sad to read one of the new posters, liana(sp?), say she's was going to leave the MB forums and she'd only started posting. maybe we planted seeds of our own and she'll be back some day.

i hope all of you have a good weekend and by that i mean that come monday you will look back and consider it "good." whether that means having a few cries, punching a pillow, 10miles on the treadmill, going out w/friends, and sticking to whatever "plan" you're in. i'm still in this marathon and will do what i can to stay the course. prayers to all of you.

back from the weekend and hope everyone is doing well and just wanted to thank everyone for the continued prayers and wish the same to you.

RR, hope you had a good weekedn. I got some books too and walk. It made me tired, so I can sleep.

RR -

I hope you had a good weekend as well. As always I've been thinking of you.

I think you are doing the right thing by avoiding the subject for now.

Keep it up and the fog will lift.

i've got my 5th session scheduled for next tuesday. i will as always continue to post here what is discussed in the session. i hope that it helps others and also gives me a record of how things are going. i gave up writing in a journal because it was all one sided and i can type faster than i can write. prayers to all of you.

got my next session w/SH in about 30 minutes. will let you know how it goes, i feel like it's going to be a "doosey (sp?)" giving the way things seem to be going. continued prayers to all of you.

very dissappointing but i wasn't able to talk w/SH today. he was just too far behind so i rescheduled for tomorrow. my intent was to talk to SH before i talked to my H again. but he kept calling and i didn't feel i could keep putting him off. so we talked about 30 minutes will post that recap under my post on "it's coming...."

well, i had my 5th session w/SH this morning. of course the majority of the time was spent on me updating on what has happened since our last session (2wks ago). so i told Sh some of the things i have sent to my H (email, mail, and phone stuff), updated him on the conversation i had w/MIL on suday, conversation i had w/my mom on sunday about her conversation w/my H on saturday (he called her). told him about the conversation i had w/H yesterday. I wish i knew how to do the link thing to take you to where i talk about those conversation but i don't know how. you can look under this forum under my post starting "analysis appreciated.........." if you really want to know.

of course i'm going to generalize a lot of what was said but basically SH said that the only thing i did "bad" was what i said to my H when
he said he was going to have to go because he had a final in 20 minutes, i said that he has made some choices and that he chose to call me and needed to see it through. he said he couldn't be late for his final but he still had 20 minutes to talk.

so w/that i continue to learn from my mistakes, he said i'm still doing a good job w/the changes and that in the future i still need to avoid any relationship talk but that if i can't then i need to be EXTREMElY sensitive to where my H is at and not come off as being controlling or manipulative. so if he says on the phone that he has to go then i need to let him go. i still need to keep in the back of my head that what i might say might ruin any progress that i've made and what my ultimate goal is, which is to save my M.

SH had a hard time believing that my IL's were basically supporting him even if it was through their inaction. especially coming from my FIL who until this day has never allowed us to sleep in the same room when we came to their house because we were not married in the church. i think this is truly sad as well that his dad of all people is not "doing" anything about it. maybe he is talking to my H about it. I don't know. i've only talked to my FIL once since all of this came out. but the fact that my H says that his family is "happy that he's happy." makes me want to puke, again. i told SH that is was considering sending my MIL a mothersday card w/a letter and a Bday card to my FIL next month w/a letter. SH said a card is find that's it is a caring gesture but no letters.

i asked SH about a letter my mom had written to my H but stopped short at the mailbox because she just felt something was stopping her and she didn't want to destroy any progress that i've made. I gave him the general synopsis of the letter which said she was cheering for us and that i have been very domineering in our M, which i have been. that she feels my H and her have a lot in common that they don't like conforntation, they suffer in silence, wish sometimes they could say what the mean like me and my dad but most of the time she's glad she doesn't because it can really tear a person down. she said that she knew my H was in a place where he felt he has never been, w/someone that truly loves and understand you and things are new, exciting and passionate. that she remembers what young love is like and that it can make you physical body do exciting thinggs. but always w/a rainbow there is a a cloudy day.

she goes on to say that if he has been intimate w/"this young lady" that he has commiteed adultery in the presence of God, and that he has also caused this young lady great harem in her life. if this has occurred then he has hurt 2 women that he loves as well as himself. to ask this young lady who may be innocent in so many ways to enter into a relationship this way is doing her a big injustice. she says that she is speaking to him as a fellow Christian and sister in Christ if he did indeed become that way several years ago and that's why she's being bold.

she speaks about how this situation might not really be about me and my H that it might be more of trying to keep him from doing what God wants you to do (my H says he wants to teach religious history). that satan plays dirty and he plays to win and will do what he can to break people down but he can only do what we allow him to do. that if we aren't constantly on guard that satan can sneak in and put us under conditions to make choices we would never make if we were staying close to God and that she believes this is what is happening to him. satan loves to use sexual powers, he is a grand master at it. that my H plays chess and knows how the rules work, it's about outwitting the opponent and don't even realize they have been had.

she ends w/saying that God can work a miracle in his life to Lead this young lady to the Lord not to a ruined life. thanks him for being my true love and being the gentle loving person he is and for loving her as a MIL. she will continue to pray for me and him and this young lady and says that he can call her anytime to talk if he wants to.

well that's about the end of the letter from my mom and SH said if she feels like sending it again that he thinks it will be okay. that my H may dismiss it but it is Biblical in that my mom is rebuking my H but w/love and understanding, still reminding him that what he is doing is wrong but telling him that all can be overcome. that maybe it was just the timing that was causing my mom not to mail the letter that day.

i asked SH that if he could be God for one day and was to make any kind of prediction of things down the road based on what has transpired, what would he say? he said he still sees a lot of promise, that it's not hopeless, but i just need to remember at all times what the goal is and that certainly it will not hurt to expect the worse that way i won't have my cards down and just to keep doing what i'm doing.

so that's about as summarized as i could make it. thanks for hanging in there and reading what i've typed. any comments are welcome and prayers to all of you.

^

hoping for some OT comments, starting to feel like my situation is really different from others and feeling lost in all this. thanks.

rr - you're doing all the right things.

Just minimize those LBs. try to avoid them like the plague.

I have comments I'd like to direct to your FIL, but I won't waste my energy trying to be logical with a hypocrit. Just remember, some parents will stand by their children no matter what crime they commit, because to do otherwise is a reflection on them - or so they believe. This can be the only explanation for your FIL's illogical, hypocritical "righteousness." Puke.

This cuts to the bone because my in-laws were only very slightly less absurd. Fog is contagious. That said, my WS was/is a master manipulator. She could charm the eskimos into buying refrigerators.

Keep up the good work. Steve cannot predict the future - none of us can. If you stay on the moral high ground and take the approach that you will someday have to look back on your actions, no matter what happens, you will be better off in the long run. If you do this, I'm sure you'll agree with me that given a choice, I'd much rather be the BS.

WAT

WAT, thanks for taking the time to comment, i know it was a long read. of course you're right about the IL's. i had expectations of them and i was let down. i can understand about the loving your child no matter what. i guess again, secretly i was hoping that his father would outcast him and this would wake him up.

i know that steve can't predict the future it's just he didn't really give me a lot of what his impression was when he talked to my H and then given the newest info i wanted to know what he thought. i'm going to schedule an appt for next week and start trying to get more specific w/what i need to do. as my pastor says and i've heard it said here, i feel like i'm walking a tight rope. between cointinuing my changes, not being a doormat, not enabling my H, coming out on the end that i want. of course my views on what is fair is totally skewed now a days. but how am i supposed to know that what i'm doing is what is right?

like dragging my feet on the sale of the house, what conditions a D would be under (infidelity vs irreconcilable differences), do i take everything? does him thanking me for the way i've been say that i'm making things easy for him? is that going to come back and bite me? knowing my MIL doesn't want me to "fight it" will that color a bad picture of me by them to my H? so many unknowns, i'm trying to take one day at a time and of course that happens w/God's help......but you know our 11th anniversary is next month, his birthday is in july, he'll be graduating college in august, what do i do with all these?

well i gotta get some work done. thanks again for all the thoughts. prayers to all of you.

RR,

<blockquote>quote:<hr />but how am i supposed to know that what i'm doing is what is right?<hr /></blockquote>Well if you can try to focus on improving yourself so that no matter what your crazy H does (come back to the M or not), you can look back and say you did your best, you are an improved person, then you are doing what is right.

If you're trying to control the outcome of the situation then you're probably not doing what is right. I think you should pay extra attention to this for a couple of reasons:
1. You have a history of being perceived by your H as controlling
2. No WS likes to be educated or told what to do

<blockquote>quote:<hr />like dragging my feet on the sale of the house, <hr /></blockquote>Let your H own this. He's where the house is, anyway. If he wants it sold, he can jolly well start the ball rolling.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />what conditions a D would be under (infidelity vs irreconcilable differences), do i take everything?<hr /></blockquote>I would try very hard not to worry about these things because there are no D papers sitting on your table. If the day comes that you get served, then hire an attorney and figure this stuff out. For now, it's wasted energy and puts you in a defeatist frame of mind. When you find yourself thinking along these lines, take a walk or do something positive for yourself. I'm not saying put your head in the sand, but don't spend a lot of energy on these thoughts right now.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />does him thanking me for the way i've been say that i'm making things easy for him? is that going to come back and bite me? knowing my MIL doesn't want me to "fight it" will that color a bad picture of me by them to my H? <hr /></blockquote>You can't control how other people perceive your actions. You can't control other people's actions and how they affect your H. Let all this go. Do what your small inner voice tells you to do and leave the others to figure out their own path.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />but you know our 11th anniversary is next month, his birthday is in july, he'll be graduating college in august, what do i do with all these?<hr /></blockquote>Use them as great excuses to stay in contact with your H? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

[ May 03, 2004, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: turtlehead ]

RR just checking your situation, I agree with Turtlehead. Don't worry about what other people think, they don't know your plan, they have no clue. Just work on yourself for now like you have been. Are you still working out? Most of us in this situation feel the same way you do like this is hopeless. I never thought that my Plan B would work, I'm not saying it is yet but my W did contact me which I though would never happen. I believe this is some kind of progress. You never know what tomorrow is going to bring, but just live for today. Hang in there and find something constructive to do to keep your mind busy. Prayers to you RR.

RR, sorry it took me awhile to get back to you. I would say again I am quite surprised by your FIL. But I can give you a little ray of hope here. I had the support of my MIL, SIL and W's aunt all along. Well recently W went to SIL and complained about me doing x,y,z. I was not going to here of that and approached SIL. I told here this was all about OM and nothing to do with xyz. It is a smokescreen. I mean, I got off the cell phone and drove directly to SIL's house to speak to her. The result is she is now completely back in my corner. Yes, blood is thicker than water but people can't ignore the facts. So I guess the point is you've done nothing wrong and that has to come out when the dust settles. Take comfort in the truth.

I also agree with the more recent trend on your post urging you to let go a bit. For the last two years all I did was put myself inside the mind of WW. It just made her enjoy the pursuit of two men even more. In the last 6 months or so I have totally detached from what she is thinking and simply put my plan in place. I don't waiver or negotiate it at all. In fact I hardly discuss it with WW. The change has been dramatic. She is now trying to guess what I'm going to do next. The balance of power has changed dramatically in my house. It took a long time to get here but I know I'm on the right track. I'm not winning anything, I'm just trying to get my marriage back on the right track. So don't think it's a power struggle. Just try to go semi Plan B and get him wondering a little. As far as SH trying to predict the future, I can tell you I get more information from W about her discussions with SH than I get from SH. That is fine but he is very honest in his dealings with both parties. He does a great job of doing a very difficult balancing act in my opinion. Hope you get that sense of peace and strength soon. Something good will happen if you keep improving you.

turtlehead, tinman, and WOE, thanks for reading my posts and replying, it means a lot to me. sometimes i need to post and be replied to more than others, you know what i mean? i also talked to my mom this am and brought her up to speed. i hadn't talked to her since last monday night. of course she helped me realize i should feel good about what i'm doing. she still reminds me that God will see me through this and no matter what happens to cling to him. trying to do this day to day but also pray that i will be given another chance at my M, i can't help but do that.

my also said that she will probably go ahead and mail the letter she wrote to my H and that maybe he'll read it. i told her that SH gave his "blessing" to send it even though SH said my H might dismiss it, so in turn i was giving her my "blessing" to send it if she felt the timing was right and that i needed to let go more and let God's will unfold. sometimes that's easier said then done as we all BS know all too well.

i'm still working out not as much as i was but i'm still losing weight. as of last tuesday i was at a 38.2lb weight loss. i'll weigh-in again tomorrow and see where i'm at. still looking for another place to live. not having a lot of luck due to my 2 dogs but we'll see..........prayers to all of you guys.

hey chris, what's it going to take for you to read my post <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> maybe it's too long?

had a 1 pound weight gain this past week. even though in the grand scheme of things it's not a lot but it's not going in the direction i want. so i need to get back in the groove again. i'll probably see my H the middle to end of june and want to WOW him again w/my weight loss. he was absolutely shocked when he saw me in march (i'd lost over 20lbs since the last time he saw me). i've lost another 10lbs since i saw him in march and hope to lose at least another 10lbs before i see him again.

anyway, just bumping this up for others. prayers to all of you.

RR,

You need an incentive! One of them is knowing that you are going to see your husband in June, BUT you should also do something for yourself and that will give YOU an incentive to keep on with the weight loss.

One thing that I did was I bought a cute little summer dress that did not fit me. I put the dress on a hanger on my closet door so that I could see it EVERY day. Every time I got tempted to eat chocolate or others stuff, I would run upstairs and look at the dress. It really helped me.

You also mentioned that you are going to a gym. I have made an effort to talk to women at my gym who I think have terrific figures and I ask them for advice. Most are very happy to help me out and I have not encountered one rude person. It actually helps me become more outgoing. I have received terrific tips on weight training, nutrition and made some new friends. ;-)

I now fit into my dress - it's a size 4!!!

Hopefully I will continue to fit into it... That's the challenge.

Do you have a girlfriend in your area that you could maybe recruit as a mentor for yourself? One of my good friends joined a 'boot camp' fitness groups and it has literally changed her life.

Just some ideas for you...

Kati

RR -

Just checking your thread.

I think it would be a good idea for your mom to send the letter. If nothing else it will show your H that you have her support. I think it will also show him that she loves him and will forgive him as well.

And for what others think: FORGET ABOUT THEM This is your life. Not theirs. You do what is right for Rough not what looks right for everyone else. You are a grown woman and you can make your own decisions. I know you are aggressive and that's where this comes into play. When someone judges you for making the decisions you have made stand up and tell them to worry about themselves and not you.

OK, now for the weight loss point. I am very proud of you. So you've lost 40 lbs?!?!?! Is that right? Good for you. Keep it up. As for an incentive I'd say do it for yourself not for your H. I got MILF'ed (slang acronym) by some college students this weekend while I was with my girls shopping. I wasn't prepared for that but it sure made me feel good. It's been a long time since I have noticed someone else notice me...cept maybe in the shower at the gym...my weight loss has been extreme and to add the boob job on top of that seeing myself naked is a shocker.

OK, so enough of that. I'm sure you are beautiful. So keep up the good work. I hope you aren't starving yourself. Lose it the hard way and it'll stay off.

Sending you hugs and loves of love!!

XXXOOOOXXXXOOOO

kati and heroswife, thanks for the replies and the encouragment, it's always so good to hear from you.

i am going to splurge and get a couple pairs of pants and tops. i really shouldn't because of the money factor. i really need to watch my $ to save for getting a new place and for counseling w/SH. but the short of it is i do deserve it and i really just can't wear the clothes i have anymore. i've tried and even w/belts they are just hanging on me. i didn't bring a lot of clothes w/me because i thought my H would be joining me up here around this time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> so a lot of my clothes are still at our house in another state. i have a lot of cute clothes that i haven't been able to wear in a long time so that's still a good incentive for me for when i finally get all my stuff.

i'm still going out w/friends and will be visiting my parents this weekend and i have to put money aside for those things too. don't worry, i'm not starving myself. i still have over 20lbs to go before i even get near my IBW for my heights so i'm not going to melt away. as far as the gym thing, i'm still trying to go at my pace so that i will stick w/it because this will have to be a life long thing for me. once i get where i want i'll need to keep w/it to keep it off. once i lose some more weight i'm going to start going to more of the classes and will try and start to get more friendly w/other women at the gym. not that i'm not friendly already but you know what i mean.

I did the boot camp thing once FOR REAL! and that was enough for me. course that was almost 7 years ago but i digress...thanks again ladies for the encouragement. i sincerely hope things are going well in your situations and that the more i learn i can start giving back to those who have helped me out. prayers to you both.

RR, miss you a lot. Thank you for your prayer. It took me a while to catch up reading your thread. I am so proud of you for everything you did. Lose weight is a difficult task, but you can do it. Prayers for you.

still waiting for chris-CA123 to pop in here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

^

Rough -

Just thinking of you and hoping you are doing well.

Sending my prayers and {{{{hugs}}}}}.

right back at you heroswife {{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}
doing okay, going to see my mom this weekend and a lot of the rest of my family. they live about 5.5 hrs away so i'll leave after work today and be back sunday night. my dad has the weekend off so hopefully he won't mind if i hog my mom all weekend. i just want to sit in her lap and have her hold me, i just want to sit next to her in church and rest my head on her shoulder, does that make sense? anyway, getting teary eyed so need to get going.

after work i won't have computer access until monday but wanted to say i hope things are going well w/you and hope that you have a blessed mother's day. i'm still hoping that someday i will be able to have one, as the mother of my H's children. love and prayers to you, RR

POP! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

you stinker!!!!!!!!!! you just made me laugh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> so does this mean you're going to pop back in and comment? you are such a hoot <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

RR,

I hope you have a good time with your parents, especially your Mom this weekend. I started crying when you wrote that you just wanted to be with your Mom this weekend and have her hold you.

I've been so homesick lately. It's been almost 1.5 years since I have seen my parents and my brother. I miss them so much. I wish I could go home right now, but tickets cost over $1000.00 and I cannot afford that right now.

It's weird, but sometimes I really feel like the little girl again and I long for my Mom. I can totally understand what you are feeling and wanting.

Being here alone is one of the hardest things, even though I have lots of friends and great neighbors, but it's just not like family. I miss them so much.

Kati

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by roughroad:
 right back at you heroswife {{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}
doing okay, going to see my mom this weekend and a lot of the rest of my family. they live about 5.5 hrs away so i'll leave after work today and be back sunday night. my dad has the weekend off so hopefully he won't mind if i hog my mom all weekend. i just want to sit in her lap and have her hold me, i just want to sit next to her in church and rest my head on her shoulder, does that make sense? anyway, getting teary eyed so need to get going.

after work i won't have computer access until monday but wanted to say i hope things are going well w/you and hope that you have a blessed mother's day. i'm still hoping that someday i will be able to have one, as the mother of my H's children. love and prayers to you, RR <hr /></blockquote>

I'm around. I'm not ignoring you. Your training wheel are off and I'm just watching you ride down the street.
You're doing just fine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

You mentioned earlier, "i guess me and SH didn't really go into a lot about the OW's family."
This is not really too much of a concern (yet).
The main point of this type of counseling (Solution oriented, brief therapy-SOBT)is to get the marriage back on track.
It doesn't help to analyze the past if you don't really want to be with the your spouse right now.
It's something which could (and maybe should?) be looked at later when both people actually want to be around each other and are actually concerned with what the other is feeling/thinking.

kati, thank you, you started to make me cry w/what you said in regards to what i said <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> i' sorry you do not get to see your family very often especially your mom. up until last september i have been connected to the military in one way or another my whole life. so i was very used to not being around my family. but over the last few years i have developed a closer relationship w/my mom and my sister (it's just me and my sister for siblings) and even my dad. where i live now is the closest i have lived to my family since i lived at home, almost 11 years ago. the state where our house is and where my H is, is only 9 hours away from my parents but still not as close to where i am now.

wish i could collect a love offering for you to visit your family but i hope at least that you are able to communicate often and i'm sure if she could your mom would be here in an instant to give you a big hug in person.

Chris, thanks for the reply, that really means a lot to me what you have said and how you think i'm doing. of course it always makes sense and that's why i always seek your comments. i'll continue to keep you posted as well as everyone else here and hope that people will continue to stick w/my story. hope things are going well in your neck of the woods where ever that may be. thanks again for taking the time to post in the forums and prayers to you, especially from a fellow capricorn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

RR, just check on you and hope all is well. I know that you can not use computer at night. Hope to see you tomorrow or may be next week? Have a great weekend. prayers for you.

thanks lost, for thinking of me, i posted to you on your thread and hope today is a better day for you. i have my next session w/SH in the morning, will let you and everyone else know how it goes by posting it here. hugs and prayers to you, RR

[ May 10, 2004, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]

just had my 6th session w/SH this morning and will post it. i emailed one of the moderators to find out how to edit the title to this thread but until then............

gave SH an update as to what has transpired since our last session. told him about the contacts that i have initiated (SH wants me to do something every other day), i've left a couple of messages at our house, i've emailed him, we've had one conversation since my last session w/SH, i sent a card to MIL for mothers day, i sent a box of dog treats to the house and asked H to give some to the dogs, my mom has sent the letter she wrote to my H and he should have gotten by saturday.

told SH that our anniv. is next month, H's b-day is in july and what i had planned on doing. i thought i would probably send a card to H and call him for anniv. and say something along the lines of remembering what we were doing and the way we felt 11 years ago and that if i had to do it all over again i would and that i loved him. told SH i wasn't sure when i would see H again but wanted to go to our house some time next month but didn't want to be there the same time as my MIL. so maybe a trip the end of june beginning of july and also a trip in august. the trip to august is to get my household goods. my deadline is september if i want to have the military do it for free. the OW's 21st b-day is in august and it just so happens that i planned my trip around that time, wonder what will happen?

I told SH that i still wasn't sure how to act, whether it was as a friend, loving wife, i didn't want to come off as too eager or desparate. if my H asks how things are going or how work is, do i act like everything is fine? and SH said to say that i'm not doing too good but tomorrow is another day. the idea behind this is not to give my H a "get out of jail" card, so that he thinks everything is okay and just re-inforces the idea that it's okay for him to leave. IF my H asks why i'm not doing good then i just say "because i'm not w/my husband but like i said tomorrow is another day." then i'm supposed to change the subject and bring it back to him and say something like "so how are you liking you time off (from school)?"

I asked how to deal w/comments about meeting someone else, like from my MIL or from my H. SH said to say that "that's not in my plans especially while i'm married." we also discussed how to handle interactions w/IL's if and when they should happen and what i should say if they ask why i'm not giving H a D or why would i want to be w/someone who doesn't love me, etc. SH said to come from the standpoint that "I believe there is a way to work togehter to change the future even if he doesn't feel that way about me. the ideal situation is to be in love w/your W and that because of that i can't in good conscience end our M and walk away from something that can be better."

we discussed again how i deal w/statements from my H when he says that he gave me years to change, that he can't go back, and that he doesn't feel that way about me anymore. SH said i have to still continue w/my statements that "i'm truly sorry for that but that person doesn't exist anymore and i believe that there is a way for you to get those feelings back." if my H asks how then that is when i should refer him to talk to SH because i shouldn't get in a debate w/my H due to it making me seem unattractive. we also talked about how to approach the subject of my H taling to SH again (first & last was on 4/12/04).
SH said to make it a request from him to talk to him and have a follow-up. that if my H says no, then i just need to say that i'll let SH know. if my H asks why then i just need to say that SH would like to get more information and that he is still trying to get a better understanding of me and making sure i'm following through w/the changes that i've made.

If my H asks why i'm doing the things i'm doing or why i believe the way i do now, why after what has happened then i need to say "did SH talke to you about conditional love? I had a different belief system that centered around the fact that no matter what i did in our M that you would always be there, i'm not trying to justify my behavior only that i'm sorry but that part of be is gone. it's not about right or wrong but more about how we are wired and that feelings are conditional. If i expect you to feel about me a certain way then i need to give you a reason to feel that way. i need and can create the conditions to be in love w/me."

i told SH that i have several mindsets right now and one of them includes that i can last longer than the OW, meaning will she still be around after 2 years of me not giving my H a D? that i'm prepared (at least i think i am) to fight to the end. SH said that this OW is dating a MM and that he sees this as a character flaw and that R has a shelf-life. the OW may be nice, feels like she is rescuing my H, that she has found a soul mate, etc but the fact she is dating a MM says quite a bit and that she is missing a large part of what R's are all about. SH said that's why dragging your feet and time is important. that when there are kids or financial situations then dragging feet can only be done to a certain extent. but aside from those then dragging your feet can be very effective in the long haul.

SH said to avoid any type of "what" questions and to not make this a moral issue even if it may very well be that. i should focus on the fact that if i and/or we follow a plan then we can alter our current situation. but i still need to be extremely guarded w/my h and not expect him to care for me right now because he can't. my H is still operating on the fact that he can't see the future i do, so i have to continue to chip away at the walls so that he can eventually see the same picture i do. I shouldn't worry about that my H could entertain the idea of working on our M but for the fact he doesn't want the OW to be hurt, SH said that is where he comes in and that it doesn't serve me well to think about that.

i asked SH if there were any other books that i could read other than what i have and he said that love busters maybe a good one but he felt i pretty much knew the LB concept that "i realize i could have done things differently and those things made me unattractive." but that i'm continuing to change 1) my physical appearance 2)bad habits 3)getting rid of my previous existing belief system about M.

so that's about it, i'll probably schedule another session for myself in a couple of weeks and do a lot of praying about when to talk to my H about talking to SH again. thanks for reading and continued prayers to all.

RR sounds like SH plan is good to me and I like that your share, it gives alot of food for thought. Stay the course. It also sounds like your doing well and strong today. Prayers to you RR. Sorry for reminding you about the date.

RR, sounds a good session. I get similar advice from SH. But the father and son seem a little bit different. The advice I got from Dr. Harley is more strict. Sh told me to hold on, his father told me not to tolerate with WH's behavior. Who do I listen to?

RR -

Just read your latest update about your recent session with SH. I'm glad to hear you sound good. I'm sure your H notices this as well in your brief contact with him. I believe your strength and endurance will show him that you are willing to change and make the M work.

I pray for you daily.

Sending you encouragement and {{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}.

lost, thanks for your continued thoughts and prayers and i send you the same. as for an answer to your question, i would listen to SH because i feel like this is more of where your at but i would also discuss what dr. harley says w/SH and how you don't know who to listen to. of course that goes a lot of what is said here as well. many people say things and you just have to gleam from them what you can, sometimes you take their advice and act upon it and sometimes you don't. also, in my opinion, i feel that you are able to go more w/SH because it's more of what God wants you to do. now you can take that for what you will and maybe i'm reflecting on my own situation a little but i almost feel that my H tolerated my behavior for so long and now i'm not necessarily tolerating his behavior but doing what i can to change myself, create an enviornment that he will want to come back to, and continue to pray that we will be able to rebuild a marriage that's pleasing to God.

heroswife, thanks again for your words of encouragment and for reading my long posts on my sessions, i know that's not easy sometimes and keeps me from reading posts at times. i can't help but feel excitement for you for this weekend and hope you don't mind if a live a little vicariously w/you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . tremendous strength and prayers to you.

RR, just thinking of you. Hope you have a good day.

I did some gardening today. It feels good.

RR, you are not in whole day. Miss you, hope you are doing fine.

Good morning, RR. Hope you have a good day.

LOST,i justed posted to you on your thread, sounds like you and i both need to get some marathon sleeping done. but i do think you need it more than i do. i know i'm getting enough sleep even though i'm still tired. you on the other hand, i don't feel you are getting even some minimal amount of sleep. start looking at what options you have in getting more sleep. because if you can't take care of yourself you won't be able to take care of your kids and do what you need to do to work on your M. i think there is a fine line between keeping yourself busy so you won't dwell on things but at the same time overextending yourself so that you aren't able to take care of you.

continued strength and prayers to you.

for moderators to change title/subject line.

Done!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thank you, i figured w/the new title that i wouldn't have to keep updating what session i was on (5, 6, 7, etc.).

RR, good morning. Hope you had a good weekend and a frsh start of the week. I've kept you in my prayers.

I have appointment with SH. Please pray that my Wh will talk to SH and open his mind. Please let the spirit set in SH and have inspiation to WH.

Rough -

Thinking of you this morning. Hope you had a good weekend.

Sending you hugs.

lost, just posted on your thread and just said a prayer for your session today. i thought of you often this weekend and wish you much strength.

heroswife, thanks for your thoughts and i was also thinking of you often this weekend and must admit was a little jealous too but a Godly jealous because i know what's happening now in your recovery is pleasing to God and that you and your H will be a true testimony for all. you said you were going to post a thread on your H's homecoming, what are you going to call it? haven't seen it yet but anyway i'm sure you have a lot to catch up today seeing as how you were very busy this weekend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

prayers to you both and to all.

RR thanks for checking in on my post. I'm fine my W didn't show up so no worries. Like I posted in my thread I just don't care anymore. If my W make's the decision to ruin her life I will let her. My life will go on. I hope you had a good weekend I did. I kept busy cleaning and doing stuff around the house. I also hope you have a good day. I wonder if my W didn't show up because of my new I don't care attitude hehehe.

asking for special prayer for my H to talk to SH again. i haven't even asked him yet but SH feels about time to approach the subject again but my approach should be that it is a follow-up and a request from SH. i'm scared to ask my H for some reason. don't know if i should just call him up and get straight to the point or wait until i get him on the phone about something and then talk to him about it. i haven't talked to my H in probably 2 weeks. i still do the contact thing almost every other day like SH said but it usually involves me leaving messages on the phone, sending emails, or sending stuff in the mail.

anyway, please pray for God to put the words in my mouth to say what is needed to my H about talking to SH and that my H will be receptive and more seeds will be planted. i continue you to pray for all of you as well. thanks, RR

[ May 17, 2004, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: roughroad ]

RR, prayers for you. I kept praying and will keep doing that. WH did not talk to SH, not b/c he didn't want to, when I called SH, he was there which is unusaual. We ended up talking and had no time left for WH. I will make an appointment for WH again to see whehter he will be willing to talk.

It was an interesting session. I feel that SH was as confused as I did. Got to run, class will start in few minutes. Will report on my thread. Have a good evening.

please pray for God to put the words in my mouth to say
Done! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

[ May 17, 2004, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]

thank you Chris, i do believe in the power of prayer and that's why i asked. see my new post i started today and comment if you have time. i just made an appt w/SH for tomorrow at 0930. they changed the times but the session length is still the same.

in my usual fashion i'm posting on my latest session w/SH today. all in all i've spent over $1400 on the sessions. staggering but i still want to make sure i'm doing everything i can.

anyway, my call today was in regards to a recent letter my H sent me and what i was supposed to do. you can read about that in my other thread if you haven't already. i brought SH up to date like i normally do and read him the letter my H sent and also the letter that starfish recommended i send. SH's advice was that i should write a letter back but it should be more of a rebuttal and not really address the things that my H said in his letter. SH said to say something along the lines of:

"that i received his letter and that yes, let's move forward together. after all we have come to realize about what we did wrong imagine what we can do in the future. we are so much more educated and aware of what doesn't work and we have paid dearly to learn this lesson. i realize our feelings for each other are different and as painful as it is i do get that you feel you don't love me. but feelings can be turned around. If you doubt that can happen then talk to someone who knows how it's done. our future will be different than the past."

SH said after i send the letter to give enough time for my h to have received the letter, read it and let some of the stuff sink in and then call my H. of course depending on what my H says then SH gave me some things to say. like "i believe there's an alternative that we haven't looked into yet that we can be happy together and that i'm not asking for a comomittment just and understanding and exploration of the facts." if my H says that he doesn't love me and doesn't feel that will change, etc. then i could say something along the lines that i believe that he would be happy if he was in love w/me but because he's sure he's not that 's the problem but for him to understand if we were in love w/each other then there wouldn't be a problem so the issue is, is it possible to be in love w/each other again?

i am supposed to still use time the best i can and that even though there are things i have to do like get my dogs back and have my stuff moved that i just do all i can for as long as i can and use those things that i can't control to help frame my time and energy of what i have to do. such as the whole selling of the house thing. he cannot sell the house w/out me and SH said he thinks that he can't even put it on the market w/out me but anyway. if my H were to call me and say we have an offer or that i need to sign such and such paperwork than i can say that "i'm not ready." and then if my H says something like, what would make you ready, then I can say that "what would make me ready is for you to become more educated on how to fall in love again and after learning that then determine wehter or not it's possible." i can continue to say that SH is a resource/reference if my H has any questions.

even though SH didn't answer my question, the stinker, i asked him just how many situations of the people he talks to work out. he goes into saying that we are dealing w/human behavior and a lot of times when there are kids involved that sometimes is a way to always link things together, and when kids aren't involved that it's even harder but not impossible. the point is still that of re-inforcment, getting someone to be motivated about something they are just not interested in or want to do. again, that is why time was so important. i also told SH that i was afraid that my H would use whatever he learns from me or from others like SH that it would be used to improve the relationship w/the OW.

SH said that even though there is a OP that is a secondary issue and the primary issue needs to be worked on. yes, it's true that while the OP is still in the picture that the WS is still w/them trying to build a foundation. but that was the problem, it was a foundation that was built in sand and no matter what was done that it would still continue to have problems and that the nagging of the conscience of the WS to use what they have learned from their first divorce is always going to be there and SH said to notice that he said "first" divorce because the R b/w the OP and the WS rarely work out even if they get M.

so i'm supposed to give myself or get some more energy if i'm still willing and continue to do what i'm doing and use time as long as i can when i can. and he didn't feel that me wanting my dogs was silly. that it's okay to gather legal information so that i'm prepared. he said he was pretty sure FL was a no-fault state (just my luck) but he wasn't sure of the specifics. that it's true to certain extent that you can't stop a D depending on what state you're in but i should still do what i could. raising objections and taking the most time i could. because there is a time factor in the R b/w by H and the OW. and maybe as time goes by that will begin to deteriorate undoubtedly.

so that's the update and i will continue to pray for my situation as i do for everyone here and i'll let you guys know what i say in the letter and when i send it. God bless, RR

RR, I know what you mean by money. My bill for last month on MB weekends, consoling sessions, hotel, air tickets, were about $2800. That is how much it cost for a bad relationship. But if our M can be saved and we are happy, I consider these money are well worth.

I read your other thread too. It is very good that you still have energy. Really there is not much we can do except looking up GOD. Prayers for you.

Well RR there's the word's we don't want to hear "when there's no kid's involved it's harder" I feel much better now. By the way I'm doing fine. I've just been busy at work deadlines are approaching.

yes, i know tinman, we continue to hear things we don't want to. but we can still learn and move on.

BTW, glad you're okay, i'm sure the driving thing was scary. our tinman was almost a crushed tin can <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> hug and prayer to you.

RR, good morning. Hope you have a good day. Prayers for you.

thanks for the prayers we ALL need them so badly. i started yet another thread this one to chris-CA123 for his advice of what to do given what has transpired this morning. my H has a session on monday to talk to SH and then I have one on tuesday w/SH. Why does SH have to be so expensive? i really can't keep this up for much longer.

anyway, please pray that my H will still talk to SH on monday because i probably will not be talking to him (my H) before then. you know you're in my prayers to as well as everyone here. i just wish i would stop messing up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

prayer request for my H that he will keep his appt today w/SH, which is at 8am CST. that God will put the right words in SH mouth, that my H will be receptive, convicted, and his heart will be softened towards me again.

mine next session w/SH is tomorrow. thank you.

[ May 24, 2004, 07:10 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]

RR, I just read the sentence you posted to me. I stop writing now and pray for you and your H.

RR, I sent you an e-mail. Please check it when you have time.

going there now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Prayers to you always RR.

I hope you are well. Please post soon so we will know how you are.

CHIN UP! CHEST OUT! You are going to have a good day today I can feel it.

hello and thanks heroswife, hope you and yours have been well and have been thinking about you but didn't want to say "hey, HW, where are you?" because i know you went out of town are busy w/your recovery <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

i had asked that SH call me if he didn't talk to my H so that i could use the session for myself. i didn't receive a phone call so i assume that my H did talk to him, praise God. i know that it may not make a difference now but that it might down the road if seeds were planted and/or watered. i know that things may not work out between my H and i but i just have to believe that i'm doing all that i can. i know God blesses me no matter what but the fact that my H talked w/SH says a lot given the fact that i lied to my H last week about the letter he sent. but i asked God to forgive me and to help me not do it again, beat myself up over it for a day and then wrote on a post it "DO WHAT'S RIGHT !!! WWJD?" so that i'm constantly reminded.

i'll post tomorrow on my session w/SH, it's at 1130 CST. it will probably be my last, i can't afford it anymore. prayers to you, RR

[ May 24, 2004, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: roughroad ]

RR, you said you can't afford to consel with SH. Did you check into any employee programs? I haven't make appointment with him yet, I feel that it was not very productive last time. I will give some more time for things to develope before calling him. Prayers for you.

Good morning, RR. Thinking of you and prayers for you. Hope today is another good day.

well, how good today is remains to be seen, but i'm alive and have my health and a good job. see my post on your thread.

i did somewhat look into an employee program where i work but they wanted to know more about why i wanted to see a counselor and i just don't feel comfortable w/having even more people know my problems. i work at a hospital and people are not tight lipped around here and all the patient records are on computer so just about anyone can access information.

so for now, i'll counsel w/SH today and try to do the best i can in the mean time. i think i'm going to have to start using one of my other credit cards to pay for any kind of lawyer fees which i want to be prepared for. oh well, i just don't know what else to do but to do what i can for as long as i can and i'm afraid the financial aspect of everything is going to be cutting my time short. but maybe God has designed it to be this way. i gotta go and do some serious work today. prayers to you and thanks for thinking of me.

RR, did you talk to SH yet? How did it go? I know that you are busy today. I kept praying for you.

unfortunately i got the times messed up and i thought that my appt was at 1130 but it was at 0930. fortunately they let me reschedule for 130pm so i'll be calling in a few minutes. i feel so bad that i missed the time. i especially want to talk to him to find out how the session went w/my H yesterday and this will probably by my last session for a long time. i'm just not feeling myself today. i'll let you know how it goes and thank you so much for the prayers.

RR, glad you get another chance. GOD is blessing you.

as is custom i will let you guys know how my latest session went w/SH, which was today. i think it was my 8th session and my H had his 2nd session yesterday w/SH.

also as custom SH wants to be brought up to date. i told him that i did send a letter to my H on saturday and what it read. the only other things were a card i sent to my FIL for his b-day, which is tomorrow, and that my mom had sent my H a postcard (versus sending him something he has to open).

SH said that my H took up the hour if not more in talking to him and even though nothing specific was really discussed (i'm being general here) it was more of just talking about my changes, the ideal scenario, wanting us to be happy, and planting seeds even if it's on rocks and hope that they fall through a crevis (sp?) and find some soil to germinate in. he said that my H did talk again about the changes he's noticed i've made but that if it had only been done a couple of years ago. SH said not to beat myself up over this because he doesn't know that my H would have necessarily been where he needed to be in order to be receptive to my changes at that time.

i said that is what i believe, that if my h considers at all about coming back, it's the fear that my changes won't stick that's keeping him from trying. SH agreed of course that's what my H believes and that he (SH) tried to instill into my H that i was under a different belief system at that time about love and M and that i don't have that belief system anymore, which i don't. again it was more of an academic discussion based on what is logical and what my H's logic is at this time, using emotions to predict the future.

i asked if i should call my H later this week to talk about the letter we both sent to each other and he said yes. we discussed what i would say to WH because i'm still trying to avoid "what" questions. but he said it was okay to ask "what did you think about the letter i sent?" of course depneding on what my H said i should say something along the following lines:

"i just know we have the ability to have a great future together."
"i'm a work in progress, i'm not done yet."
"Mr. Harley said something to me the other day about the ideal scenario and that is for us to be in love w/their spouse and that sums up why i'm struggling. before i ask the question if it is possible to be in love w/your spouse, i want to first find out how or what has to be done and experiment w/it before i know it's even possible."
"emotional predictions are not reliable because they don't fact in change."

if my H says that he still doens't feel that way about me or just wants to move on blah, blah, blah then i can say "i know that and that's part of the problem but doesn't change the ideal scenario. i know you would be happy w/the ideal scenario when that happens."

i asked SH if i should still do the contact every other day and he said i could probably go to every 3 days w/the amount of interaction i have w/my H. to just say stuff that is a newsbrief for lack of a better term or commentary (weather, work, something my H is interested in, etc.). i asked SH about some ideas i had about stuff to send to my H, a picture of us, the movie the family man w/nicolas cage, a photo copy of a card he sent me. SH said that if the picture was taken during a time when my H felt he wasn't happy then it would not be a good idea to send. he said that he wouldn't send the movie, even though it's a very good movie, that it deals w/kids and would make my H think more of how the last few years have been so bad. he did say that the a photocopy of the card he sent me (when we were engaged) would be a good idea w/a note that said something along the lines of:

"here's an example of how feelings can change. because how you once felt about me and now you feel differently. our feelings for each other can change but because of what we now know we have the ebaility to end up different. in addition, how we can maintain them once they become what we want them to be because i want you back knowing that i'm not the person that i used to be. "

SH said that sending my H something like the card and note every 10days would be good and still do the other contact every 3 days. so i've got some work to do.

i talked to SH about my trip to our house the end of next month and how i didn't want to be there the same time my MIL was there. SH thought that i shouldn't try to avoid my MIL. that even though she has different values and blood is thicker than water that i could use the opportunity to show my changes and re-inforce things provided i could hold my tongue. i said that's why i thought maybe i should avoid her altogether because if she was coming to our house to help get it ready to sell and i'm trying to drag my feet w/that, i wasn't sure of what i could say. SH said that it's okay just not to say anything. and to look beyond what my MIL says/does and say that "i'm not a position right now to be ready for that (sale of our house)". if nothing else not to say anything.

i figured since i had july 5th off that i could probably go down to our house on the 30th of june and wouldn't have to take a lot of time off from work. just not sure if and how far in advance i should tell my H i'm coming. i also reminded SH that our anniversary is on the 17th and what i had planned to do which was to send something to the house that said what we were doing 11 years ago today, what i love about him, and if i had to do it all over again i would. i also thought about sending something to his work. SH said that the letter was good and to do that but that sending something to his work would not be a good idea.

i asked if my mom was sending stuff to my h too often, if she should spread it out (she has sent him 3 things within the last few weeks). SH said that she should keep doing what she's doing because it's working. SH said that my H mentioned that he was glad or felt good about the support my mom was giving him and their relationship. i'm not going to tell my mom this because i don't want it to influence her in anyway and just want her to continue to listen to what God is telling her to do. but if she asks i'll tell her. God truly is amazing, i was kind of afraid she was saying too much stuff to my H but that's just silly for me to feel that way.

i discussed w/SH about what he thought the letter my H sent was supposed to mean or what his intentions were. SH said that my H doesn't want to be the bad guy and that he doesn't want to hurt anyone. that he felt my H was being sincere but the fact was that he did feel bad about what he was doing and was trying to get out of feeling bad. i told SH that some of the people on the forums have said that the WS may not be as happy as we think they are or as happy as the WS tells us they are. SH said that the WS is more in a pursuit of happiness and that they are headed towards a mirage of something they can't really see which includes the future that the BS sees.

so that about wraps the session up. regretably i don't know when the next one will be or if there will be one. the money just isn't there. i just can't keep making appts w/SH every time something happens. but i hope that people are reading about my sessions and learning what they can. i know that not everyone can afford to talk to SH and certainly i can't either <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> but i still have some energy left. at least to the end of august which is when i will have to have my house hold goods moved if i want to have it done for free.
i need to get back into my working out routine and continue to follow my words w/actions so when i do see my H again it will just be more reinforcement that i'm serious about my changes.

continued prayers to all, God bless, RR

RR, thank you for sharing your experience. I feel like we can share one session. Sh pretty much told me the same thing.

RR, hope today is another good day for you.

I didn't sleep too well b/c of Wh's disrespectful act last night. He just left when I came home without any discussion. Now I recall all these years, it is his disrepectful actions caused me resentment to him. I had tolerated for so long. But I don't know how to act on it. Plan B is an answer?

yep see my email and post to you, today is another day and will be a good one thanks to you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

i think plan B is a valid answer is AN answer but the question is whether or not it's the right answer for you right now. unfortunately there can be many right answers and that's when we need to pray for God's discernment in choosing the best right answer. i think if you plan B that it needs to be before your anniversary, by at least a week or maybe wait a week until after your anniversary. my thoughts on this is that when you get into recovery (notice i said WHEN) that you don't want anything negative to surround your anniversary. even though it may not be a happy anniversary, just the fact of having the plan B "hang" on that day i think would always leave a mark in your mind. does that make sense?

glad we could "share" the session time. do you have another session scheduled w/SH? maybe you could wait for a couple of weeks and then talk to him about going to plan B. don't know, just throwing that out there. i think that you need to involve SH in your implementation of plan B given that he has talked to your H and none of us here have. but that's JMO. gotta go, have a good day, God Bless, RR

RR, what do you do in your free time? I really have to make some plan for myself to get busy.

lost, i just posted on your thread about what i do in my free time. not sure how much it will help because i mostly go to work, go to church, and sleep. but maybe it might get you thinking about other things to do. i think starting a new thread about "things to do" would be a good idea. in fact, i think i've seen that before somewhere here on the forums about stuff to do to pass the time.

prayers to you, RR

RR, I think you can get a cell phone with long distance, usually you can get free minute for night and weekends for as low as $30/mon. If you shop around, you can get a free phone and no activation fee. So you can talk to your mom and friends as long as you want. you can get rid of the land line too.

RR, good morning.

Another good day for everyone. Mine is already bad, but I will try to make it good.

yes today is another day.
i already have a cell phone and my H is paying that bill for now. it would cost $200 to cancel that cell phone so i can't shop around right now. the phone bill i was talking about was my calling card (AT&T). i don't use a home phone. i have one but it's not mine it's my friends so i don't make any long distance calls on her phone. i was actually thinking about getting a phone card like you can buy at the store. do you think it's cheaper to use those than to use your calling card? not sure, i would have to find out more of the specifics of my calling card plan but maybe if i could get a phone card that's only 3 cents a minute maybe that would be better.

i'm going over to your thread now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> i had a few more ideas of some stuff you can do. God Bless, RR

RR, there are a lot of phone card in internet for only 1cent or 2 cents per minute. I will see whether I can find some for you. If you go to costco or sam's club, it is about 3 cents.

i will be starting a new thread for myself to talk about just the everyday kind of stuff because i want this thread to specifically address my session w/SH and if anyone wants to discuss those or their own experiences w/counseling. my intent is to be able to refer to this thread to remind myself of what me and SH talked about but to also help others so that maybe they can get an idea of what to expect if they were to go into counseling w/MB. prayers to all.

I found couple numbers, try to see whether their rates are good.

1-800-815-9975. It is about 3.5 cent/min.

1-800-798-0161.

i'm bumping this up so that it does fall off the forum. not sure when my next session w/SH will be. maybe the 10th of june? not sure. will post when i have it scheduled.

hoping that Heroswife still comes here and checks on me and is still praying for me.

prayers to all, RR

for what it's worth my next session w/SH is on 6/10/04.

RR, good for you. I will pray for the session.

I got your reply about my letter. I will revise it and post later. Thanks.

^ for phantom

Had another session w/SH this morning.

Brought SH up to date on what has transpired since my last session (about 2 weeks ago). told him about the conversation i had w/my H (on 5/30/04) about the letter i had sent in response to the letter my H had sent that he would be filing for D soon, etc. SH said that the conversation was good and what i said/did was good. told SH that my mom had sent another postcard to my H. I told SH about the conversation i had w/my H on 6/1/04 and my first LB. he said overall that what i said was okay. told SH about the next conversation i had w/H was on 6/2/04 about the bank accounts, etc. i told SH that i left a message on my H's cellphone on 6/5/04 regarding an Adam sandler movie (happy gilmore, which was on TV recently) and that even though i have seen it a dozen times i actually saw a part i hadn't seen before and that i was watching it at the gym so it had subtitles on the screen and that when it came to one of the scenes towards the end of the movie that it siad "maniacal laughter" to describe what a clown machine was doing in the movie. long story short, i thought this was hilarious, who uses maniacal to describe laughter? and thought my husband would get a kick out it and so i said all that on the msg i left for my H on his cellphone. SH said that was an excellent message to leave.

i also read him the note that basically he (SH) had already approved for me to send along w/a photocopy of a card that my H sent to me before we were M that said all the usual mushy stuff. here is what the note said w/the photocopy "here is an example of how feelings can change because how you once felt about me and now you feel differently. our feelings for each other can change. because of what we now know and how we have the ability to end up in addition to an understanding of how we can maintain them once the feelings ecome what we want them to be. because i want you back knowing i'm not the person who will hurt you again, roughroad." SH said that was good as well.

I also read SHthat i would be sending to my H for our anniversary (next thursday) and that i would be putting a couple of the phone bills w/it. the note said:

"I can't help but think of what we were doing eleven years ago june 17th. i was filled with such happiness and anticipation of becoming your wife that i couldn't sleep. i know you felt the same on that long flight from korea to utah (he was TDY at the time 6mos prior to our wedding day). With tears that glistened, my eyes fixed on you and thinking of the life we'd share. we both said "i do." memories were gathered that we will never forget. with many happy times gone by and others when we cried. with all the ups and downs we'be had in learning, i know in this heart of mine, i'd marry you again, talking you as my husband and you choosing me to be your wife. i love you, roughroad"

SH said the note was good. i asked him if i should put a separate note w/the phone bills because my H said he was going to take care of them but they are still coming to me. he said just to put a short note that says "i wasn't sure if you were aware i was still getting these, please call me if you have any questions."

i discussed w/SH about my trip at the end of this month to the state where my h is and our house and at the present i haven't told my h i was coming and that i was afraid if i did then he would make arrangements to not be there (that's what he did the last time). but i told SH that i knew i had to tell my h becaue if i didn't then it would be perceived as an LB, a manipulation, and that i was trying to control. that even though i would be extrmenly sad and hurt if i didn't see my H while i was there (only there for 3 full days) that it wasn't about me at this point and what i thought was fair. SH said that at least 1 week prior (nothing less) to say something like i was planning a trip there to pick up a few things and that i was going to have a yard sale while i was there (which i am) etc.

i told SH that of course the point of my trip would be to see my H and him to see me but it was to pick up some of my clothes (can't wear a lot of the ones i have due to my weight loss), to see my dogs, and to pick up the computer. SH asked me about the computer and i said that i wanted the computer so that i could do email and the forums at home versus at work and that if my H needed a computer when he went back to school then he could use one at school. SH said to treat as a negotiation, that if we can't agree then to step back and take a break and then re-negotiate. because my H could say that if that's what i needed the computer for (email, etc.) then i could use the one at work or go to the library.

negotiation brings me to the next point i wanted to talk to SH about, the dogs. SH said to use negotiation as long as i can. that even though i knew i told myself that i would not tolerate the dogs being pawned off on any of my H's friends, etc. that i shouldn't come off that way. that my H was still extremenly sensitive to feeling like he's being controlled and that if he thinks that he still has some control or that he is still able to make some decisions then it's better to approach the situation that way. i again explained to SH that i had a truck and that it would be very difficult to bring 2 big dogs in the cab for a 12 hour trip and that i didn't want to bring them up here one at a time. my goal was for my H to bring them up to me because he has a car that would hold both of them comfortably. SH asked what my H's feelings were about the dogs, i said i truly don't know but my impression is that he doesn't really care about them. that maybe he did at one time before we moved to the house we are in because he used to take them and do things w/them like hiking and swimming or play ball but now they are probably just an annoyance.

initially, when i first found out about the A and he talked about getting his own place and asked what about the dogs. he said he would like one of the dogs (the older one) but i said it wouldn't really be fair to the dog for him to be stuck in an apartment all day and him being gone all the time and he agreed. then the issue of the dogs came up later because he said he needed to fix the yard and couldn't do it if the dogs were still there. he had called my mom w/out telling me and asked if she could take one of the dogs and that he had a friend who would watch the other dog. my mom didn't call and tell me he called her but the next time i talked to her she told me and that's where i drew the line. i was not going to tolerate my dogs being around anyone that my h knew, mainly the OW, that these were my dogs and he gave me one of them 12 years ago to keep me compnay and remind me of my h and i would not stand for breaking up my dogs and shuffeling them to and fro.

shortly after i talked to my mom i talked to my H. i didn't come right out and tell him my mom told me they talked only that there was a cost to all this and that it was going to be expensive to get a place of my own that took dogs and i didn't have that kind of money but i was "firm" on that i didn't want the dogs to be around anyone that my H knew. he called me the next day and told me to not worry about finding another place that he would keep the dogs isolated in the yard in order to fix the yard and the he understood about not wanting the dogs to be around people he knew.

anyway, SH said to treat as a negotiation for as long as i can. even though i have in my head what i will not tolerate that we just need to keep coming back to the issue until we can reach a POJA on what to do. i told SH that come august i may have to take things into my own hands if we have not agreed and what to do about the dogs (for my H to bring them to me). he said that he understood and that there does come a time where things have to be made plain and not messed around with but until that time to negotiate. so right now my plan is to come back from my trip and maybe the 2nd week of july talk to my h about bringing the dogs up here. my next trip to where he is will be in mid august to get the rest of the household goods shipped.

SH said just to keep doing what i'm doing that the future will be different than the past no matter what happens here. As long as my H says that what i'm doing now WOULD have made a difference in the past then it stood to reason that is still COULD make a difference. i asked SH if he thought my H might be losing respect for me or think i'm weak by what i'm doing. because some people would say that i was tolerating what he was doing. SH said that people have different definitions of toleration and what you should do. that he didn't think my H didn't respect me and in fact might even say some day that he respected me because of what i'm doing and others would to. that my number one priority right now is CHANGE. that the change and the course i'm on needs to be consistent because the WS changes w/the weather and if i'm always consistent then that might make it easier for him to come back to. and maybe at some point down the road when the issue of change is not the priority then the infidelity might start to be an issue.

i asked SH if there was anything else i could do. if i should continue to use mail and phone as contact or if it should all be phone, etc. he said that i'm doing a good job w/both. i told him what my contact has been w/MIL/FIL (just cards) and he said that was fine because right now they are acting on what they perceive is less than likely (a rebuilt M) and that's all they know how to do and same for me, that i'm acting on the fact that it is less than likey that the A w/the OW will last.

I'll probably talk to SH one more time before I go on the trip, depends on the $$ issue. will let you guys know. thanks for reading, prayers to all and God Bless, RR

RR, what a detailed report. I think you are doing a good job, not SH. But it is always good to have someone on your side telling you that you did good. SH told me the same thing about the A is not the first priority, it is the M. But the WH is attracted by the A, how to work on the M? That is something I don't understand. I will pray for you, keep doing what you are doing.

yeah lost i hear you. it helps to have people validating what you are doing and encouraging you. i'm not totally convinced that i need to continue sessions w/SH, i mean no one is telling me that i have to but i still don't want to at some point look back and regret that i didn't counsel w/SH. afterall, my H did talk to him a couple of times. certainly it helps to talk to someone who is objective even though a little biased because he is pro-marriage. but as far as i know my H isn't talking to anyone else about stuff.

also again, as i told you that if/when my H comes back i think we need to do counseling and it would be ideal to do that w/SH, especially since H has talked w/SH. i think it's easier to talk to SH a little along the way then to stop talking to him and then pick it back up months from now and he does really do a good job at keeping me focused. but as you know. we will have to see how that goes due to the $$. anyway, i'll probably try to schedule another session before i leave maybe the 24th or 29th of this month.

gotta go, thanks so much lost for your encouragment of me you have been a blessing to me and i hope "things" are stable for you. remember what you told me about learning lessons and that we are God's lambs, don't forget that. prayers to you, RR

RR, prayers to you too. Hope you to have a great weekend.

I will talk to SH again definitely before implmenting Plan B. But I will also talk to the pastor in Cannda and pray with him to seek answer from GOD.He is so close to GOD. I feel so calm when I talk to him. It is GOD's spirit working on him. Even "things" are sort of stable here, I don't want to put up too much hope to WH. But it is really hard to live a life like this. Let's hang together to go through this.

don't want this to fall off the forum. going to try and make an appt w/SH for 6/23/04.

i was able to get an appt w/SH on 6/23 at 0930, will let you know how it goes.

^ for graycloud

not even sure how many sessions i've had now. received a few statements in the mail from MB and the amount of $ spent on the sessions is staggering. yes, i think it's worth it but i have officially run out of money to pay for anymore sessions, i've maxed out credit cards and i just can't make the money appear. anyway back to the session.

brought SH up to date on what has transpired since my last session. read him the message my H sent for our anniv and i asked SH what he thought about and he said "it's frustrating." my H continues to look at change as something that would be void of mutual enjoyability. that my H continues to believe that the feelings he has for me (he doesn't love me) are going to continue from now until eternity based on how he feels today. again, if my H maintains that he doesn't love me anymore than of course i agree w/him and say "of course you believe that, that makes sense, you haven't looked into the alternatives and that this is a single option issue and that's why i continue to struggle because i have looked into thse things, my idea has both of us being happy."

SH says our M has been rot w/change, it's covered w/it but H has a flaw in his belief system and he just doesn't believe that it can still go the other way. my goal still remains the "success of the sum of 2 parts" one is my H and the other is me and what i need to do is to make my part or elment as strong as i can because if/when H ever changes his mind or wants to work on the M then I'm going to have to continue to take the majority of the workload.

i told SH that i was probably getting pretty anxious and scared of my upcoming trip. i was still trying to anticipate problems, conversations, etc. wanted to verify how i should "act." SH said to be upbeat, not overly dramatic, more of a matter-of-fact attitude and to always maintain that, to always go back to the saying that "i'm not ready for that," whether it be the sale of our house, D, or whatever. SH agreed that my biggest fear is the unkown and because i don't know how things are going to be and the fact that i like to be prepared, is taking it's toll on me.

i'm not expecting a lot of interaction w/my H because in truth i may not have any. however, unlikely that it is that my H will have changed him mind by the time i get there or even in the future, i asked SH what to say because i didn't want to be wishy washy because i knew what i wanted, NC and counseling. SH said to say "i'm glad you asked and you can talk to my counselor about what is needed, he has been helping me to understand." if my H is persistnet or asks me to tell him what i want him to do that i can actually say "steve told me not to answer these questions whould they ever come up. i would really like for us to be happy and i don't want to do anything to jeopardize that so i would be best if you talk to him."

even though i wasn't sure how SH could answer, if he would answer, or what to expect i asked SH about the time factor thing and how it looked in my situation given me and my H have such minimal contact and how he said he was going to file but........SH said he didn't want to get my hopes up and didn't want to get them down either, that it would not really help me in the state i'm in. i followed it up w/talking about where my H is in his life and what he has said that he's 33 years old, a waiter at a seafood resturaunt, and hasn't finished college yet. SH didn't really see it as a MLC but more that my H is not happy w/the choices he's made and that he doesn't finish what he starts or is just unmotivated.

i asked again about the OW and where she fits in all this. SH said that the thought patterns of the OP usually include that the situation is not due to them, that it's the WS and if it makes them happy to do what they are doing so be it. that WS is chosing to be w/me (OP). some times it can seem as a rescue, like they are rescuing the WS because they can do things better than anyone else. but still the attitude of the OP is flawed and often self-serving and that often they start to question wheter the WS will do the same thing to them one day.

SH did also agree w/me that i feel that my H wants me to be the one that files for D. that's actually one thing that i am for sure of that i will not be the one that does that. i shouldn't bring up any subject unless i'm ready to discuss it or entertain the idea (offers on the house, etc) again to always revert to being matter of fact and pleasant but not to go into detail w/anything because i'm not ready. SH said i have a good plan and that i truly am doing the best that i can given the situation and to keep up the good work.

i won't talk to SH until july after i get back, maybe the 2nd week. don't know but i'll bump this thread up as needed so it does fall off the forums. prayers to everyone.

came back to say another thing i talked to SH about and that is the possibility that my H will start to get "mean." he hasn't been but i just want to be prepared and i know he will be frustrated at the fact i don't want to let him or a M go. SH said that it is very likely that my H might start to behave this way as more of his "taker" starts to take over and that he becomes more adversarial (sp?). that my H will get in a dark place that he just feels there are certain things that he needs to do and the fact that he says he needs to move on and that i need to let him go and yet here i am not doing those things, will definitely add some internal conflict for him.

so i'm trying to be prepared for this as well. i will just have to maintain the high narrow road and basically just "take it." i need to follow my words w/actions and if i say i've changed and then just react to h in away that shows that i haven't changed or validated that he didn't think that my changes would be permanent then i would have lost any ground that i have gained. maybe if it does come to that then i might know a little of how it feels more or less. because i was often domineering and "mean" to my H and maybe this will be part of the continued lessons i'm learning.

only time will tell and only God knows what the future holds. just praying that i will continue the changes he has made in me and that i will no longer hurt those who love me or at least used to love me.

Great summary, as always! Sounds like SH kept his cards close to his chest again.

I often expect my WW to start getting mean (well, she's already being mean, but you get the idea.) Sooner or later, the WS may start to view our inaction as some type of control, in that we don't want to go along with their plans.

Sounds like you're on the right track though. It's a big help to have SH confirm your actions!

I haven't talked to WW about rescheduling with SH yet. I think she's playing hookey from work, as she's not answering her email (generally the one medium that she actually replies to me with) Her credit card still seems to be fully functional though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Though generally when she plays hookey from work, it's an indication that she's depressed, so maybe that's a good sign, on some level. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

[ June 23, 2004, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: phantom8808 ]

Dear RR,

I greatly appreciate your input regarding your situation. I don't post alot but I learn alot from your SH upates.

I realize it was your anniversary recently and I thought what you were sending to your husband quite eloquent.I somehow missed his reply. If it is not too painful coul you share it?

You and your husband continue to be in my prayers.

ayslyne

RR, thank you for sharing. My dear sis, you are always in my prayer.

Reading your session is like going through mine exactly. I would expect to get the same advice. I haven't have a chance to make appointment yet. You know how crazy I am now. But I will do sometime either tomorrow or Firday.

Regardging mean things WH does, he is already doing it, disappearing. He did more today. I will post it in my thread.

phantom (that's a really neat member name) those darn signs that we look for! i think it would be fair to say that your W is feeling guilt, depression, conflict, etc. someone once told me here to not really buy into the idea that the WS is really all that happy inside even though they may seem like it on the outside. SH also told me that these WS are more in the active pursuit of happiness versus actually experiencing it because what they are typically experiencing is the highs of their emotions and the way they feel, and after all they are all in addictions.

ayslyne, you know again, i am just doing what i can. maybe another motive for me posting these sessions is just another form of reinforcement for me in trying to really grasp what i learn. as adult learners we often have to hear things or do things over and over before we finally "get it." even more reason why i need to continue what i'm doing w/my H. i don't know if my H actually was responding to what i sent him or not but he did send me an email on our anniversary and this is what it said:

"Hi roughroad,
I hope your day is going as well as it can be. I just want you to know that this day will always hold significance in my life. I have some very fond memories from the past. Unfortunately, circumstances have changed and I can not celebrate
this day as I once had. This is an important date in both of our lives, but now we must move on and begin again. I know this is not what you want to read, but it is time we both went foward and created a new future for ourselves. I hope
that someday you can achieve this and we can be friends for life. This date will always hold a place in my heart as will you. WS"

of course, you have what SH had to say about this message. i wasn't even expecting a message at all. when i send things to my H or leave messages for him, i really have to expect that he won't read them but as SH said it's more of getting my H to think of me and not letting him compartmentalize what's going on. so if he gets an email from me even if he doesn't open it and read it, he's still thinks "roughroad" before he deletes it. same thing w/the mail or phone messages.

lost, right back at you sister in Christ and will be putting something in the mail for you today.

again, thanks everyone for the prayers, i pray for people here daily and pray that God accepts my prayer on behalf of the MB members as one that is an "effectual fervent prayer" and that it will "availeth much." God Bless, RR

I've requested an appt w/SH for next week. i think i need some new material. every time my H asks me how i'm doing, i've just been saying i'm taking one day at a time. well he actually threw that back at me yesterday saying that he's just doing the same thing because he doesn't know what else to do and is just trying to lead a normal life. SH not to give my H a false impression that everything was fine and i'm okay because it would essentially be giving him a get out of jail card but at the same time i'm not supposed to dwell on the fact i'm struggling. so i'll get an appt, update SH on all the developments, and readjust the plan as necessary.

prayers to all, RR

^ for lost in emmotion

Had a session w/SH this morning, it has been about 3 weeks since my last and a lot has happened since we last spoke so i had a lot to update him on.

but i did bring him up to speed. he also thought it was good for me to find the note from the OW to my H because it just re-inforced the fact that tensions will build, that it's happening already. again that is why using time helps so much because of the great possibility that their R will not last. that i'm still doing a good job. not letting my H off the hook necessarily by letting him think everything is all hunky dorey but at the same time being able to talk to him and meeting his needs when i can. SH thought it was also positive that my H was reading things (religious book) and taking classes in college(bible classes-he's a religious history major) that can only lead to him realize that he is on the wrong course and what he needs to do.

i told SH that i really felt that my H was seeking some approval from me by telling me some of the things he is doing or plans to do and that he is somehow trying to get my respect and admiration. i thought that maybe i could use something along those lines when my H came up to bring the dogs. for instance, knowing he is a good person and that i know the kind of man he wants to be and that i believed in him. again using time in my favor and not seeking a D or doing anything w/the house. always helping H to know that if he were to leave the A that he has something to come to and that it would be safe and he would not be alone and that some things are still being chipped away in this process.

SH said that i am getting better at selecting options that are better and being able to see things through more before acting on them. i did tell SH that i was feeling a bit like i'm not even the person who my H married and if that is who he fell in love with then what was i supposed to do? SH said that my H fell in love w/someone who cared about him and that what i am doing is trying to shake the unattractive picture my H has of me and the hurt he assoicates w/me. that i am still the same person but where as I used stubborness, agressiveness, and feistiness before as a lifestyle or way of life that now i use those traits when they are appropriate. that if my H were to jump off the raft of his A that he has somewhere else to jump off to instead of just the water and i have to be that other raft.

i told SH that i didn't necessarily think that my H would be the one to break things off that i felt more that it would have to be the OW that broke things off. SH said that because my H is such a conflict avoider that could actually be used in our favor because he would want to avoid conflict w/the OW as well. that he is just coasting along trying to avoid everything and that is just not the way to go and it will evenutally catch up w/him. even though we are not trying to educate my H that he is a conflict avoider or try to change that behavior, we can still use that as something "we know." SH thought it was still very possible that my H would be the one to break things off but he has got to know that i am there for him, that there is another option versus being alone.

i ran a few ideas by SH that i had w/still trying to stay in contact. i said that my H had offered to let my have the computer but that i decided no since that could still be a way to communicate to him because i knew he read sports related things on there, etc. SH said it was a wise decision and was good to keep the communication lines open. i read a card to SH that my H sent to me before we were married and if it would be a good idea to copy it and send it to my H like i had done before. SH agreed the card was a good one and that i could say something along the lines of "ran into this the other day and thought i would share it."

SH said that i really have 2 strategies, one that is more of a covert chipping away process that is the contact by mail, email, voice messages, etc. and then my other strategy is when we actually see each other or talk and that i am to use those times to re-inforce or drive home that we can work on things together and that i still want him back. if my H is to talk anymore about what his plans are or things that interest him then i could say something along the lines of "i wish i was a part of that because we would be a good team," or "it would be a good opportunity to work on things together," or "that i would like to be a part of sorting things out and what you want to do."

we also talked about the trip i was planning in august and that the timing of it was purposeful being that the OW's bday (21st) was the 23rd and i thought maybe if i was down there for some "legitmate reasons" that maybe i could cause some tension between them. i really didn't think that my H would tell me that he had plans and i'm sure he doesn't know that i know when her bday was. if asked by H if i could come a different time that i can honestly say that it was the best time for me to come because of the leave i needed to save up and because of some things at work. but i'm going to have to give him enough heads up that he can be off work. he did say that he would be starting classes that week so maybe he would already be planning to not work too much that week. of course he did say he was going to be looking for a different job the beginning of august so the possibility that he might not be able to get off work because he just started is something i may need to consider. but that i was working w/a 9/7/04 deadline to have my house hold goods moved unless i could get a waiver, which i will see if i can get. there would be a point where we would need to go through the house and separate things. SH thought it was a reasonable and good idea and he didn't think it would backfire on me. i've already put in for leave that week and will still plan to go for now.

My h's bday is tomorrow and asked what i could possibly say in a voice message because i was sure that he wouldn't answer the phone and he wasn't going to be home in order for me to send anything there. i told SH that i had thought about calling and saying that i was thinking of what we were doing on this birthday 11 years ago (we had been married less than a month and had made special plans before he was to go back to korea). Sh said that would be okay to do. i said that who knows maybe the OW might even have the phone and erase it and SH said then maybe that's something (my message) i could reference to in the future. i told SH that i had talked to my mom and asked if she had planned on sending my H a card or call him. she said that she had planned on it but during our last conversation had decided against it. i told her that it would probably still be a good idea and even though he wasn't at home to get it, it could be waiting for him when he got back. she said that it would probably just be something funny and i said that would be fine.

That's about it, most of the session was me bringing SH up to date. i'll try and schedule another session for the last week of july. prayers to all of you.

[ July 13, 2004, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: roughroad ]

Thanks for these posts, RR. From this and your replies to my recent posts, you're obviously doing very well. Waiting for these As to end and trying to be in the "lighthouse" position when they do is awfully tough. If you're like me, at some point you realize that you aren't making the effort because you desperately need to and have no other choice, but you're doing it out of love, despite the risk and cost to yourself. Keep it up.

GC

GC, well i'm glad you think i'm doing well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> no i know in truth God is blessing me despite the trials and tribulations and all the heartache i'm experiencing. you are absolutely right, we are doing it out of love, i just don't feel i have a choice because i believe so much that our M can be better if given the chance. aren't we supposed to love those who don't love us or love those who despise us? i just feel that i would be calling myself or making myself out to be a liar if i have said to my H that i will always love him and will be there for him and then i'm not. it's continuing to follow your words w/actions.

i'm realistic to know that in the end it still may not work out b/w me and my H, as much as that hurts to think about (and i don't think about it too much). but for ME, i just feel like you and many others, to try and be a true lighthouse for my H and truly allow for God to do his will in my life, my H's life and our M. maybe i'm in a form of denial but i would rather look back and know i did everything i could rather then always wonder if i truly did everything i could. i just need to continue to pray that i will be given the opportunity in time.

you keep doing what you're doing too and keep the faith, prayers to you, RR

next session is for 7/27/04 at 0800. figured it might be needed w/me seeing H the end of next week and i don't want to go too long in between sessions because then you spend the whole session bringing SH up to date! although w/the cost of these sessions i should probably try and stretch it out more. i'll probably "attempt" that starting in september. continued prayers to all, because we ALL need them.

^ for maddyK

session this am w/SH. brought him up to date, took me longer than i thought so actually didn't have a lot of time to talk about other things. told him i had put an envelope in the mail last night that had some phone bills for H and i also put a photocopy of a card that H sent to me before we were M (previously approved by SH to do this).

also talked about me sending a book to H based on our 2 last real conversations. the name of the book is "a case for Christ." H had read another book by the same author called "case for a creator" had really liked it and talked about it a lot and said he wanted to read the case for Christ as well. that kind of at this point i think it would be "appropriate" to send it because we had talked about it a couple of times but wasn't sure what kind of note i should put w/it. SH not to wrap it or do anything special, just to say something a long the lines of "our discussion earlier about a case for a creator got made me curious about the other book the author wrote so i went to the bookstore and got a copy for myself and picked one up for you. hope you find it as interesting as the other book." so i'll probably put that in the mail next week (i already bought the book on saturday but guess i'll have to buy another one for "myself").

of course we talked about my trip in august and the logistics about everything. why i would need to be there, how things may turn out, what H may think and/or perceive (kind of a coincidence that i was there on OW's bday), pro's/con's, SH thinks it's still a good idea to go but just really need to prepare myself. that if my H has plans on the 23rd then i just have to accept whatever else time that he gives me. but i should still try to sprinkle my new belief system in everything i do, which means, that i've changed, i still believe that we can rebuild a M that can be better than ever, and that it's possible to have the ideal scenario (to be in love w/your spouse).

SH said that this weekend at the earliest to tell H about the trip and that next weekend the latest. that even though i may not be able to occupy my H's time like i want that just me being there will cause stress on WS/OW R. because the truth of the matter is H is still M and that the OW knows that and it's got to be starting to get to her. but at the same time, as far as we know the D ball hasn't even started rolling yet and that's why i have to keep doing what i'm doing and if it does come to H filing then that is the time to be more assertive, not now.

this is because given what he (SH) knows of the situation and that my plan is taylored to that. because it is such a fine line that if too much pressure is put on H to think/feel a certain way, then that just may be what pushes him the other way (to a D) cause right now he is just so busy at being a conflict avoider and not causing any waves that he is just maintaing float. but if any waves are caused then he just might do anything he can to make those waves stop and that could be to D. i just need to keep doing what i am and chip away at the walls H has built around himself.

also still wise to keep a small mindset of preparing for the worst, hoping for the best. i'm going to try and get and appt for 8/10/04, i'll let you know, prayers to all of you, RR

I forgot to say that during my last session w/SH that he talked about how what i'm doing is like witnessing to a friend. that ultimately my goal w/a friend would be that they would come to know Christ as their savior but i just don't come right out and say that. that it's a slow process and sometimes waiting for an opportunity that presents itself. so going to visit my H this month w/some ulterior motives is not necessarily a bad thing but does have purpose on several different levels.

i was able to get an appt for 8/10/04 at 0800. sometime by this sunday i have to tell my H that i'm coming down there again. i called and left a VM yesterday for him to call me about the taxes (our extension expires 8/15/04) and he hasn't called me back yet. if he hasn't called me back by tomorrow morning i'll call him again. if i'm not able to talk to him i'll leave a message and if i don't hear from him again by thursday, i'll call again and say that we need to talk. SH said that sunday (8/8/04) should be the latest i wait to tell my H that i'm coming. so we will see......

so i figured by the 10th i would have talked to my H a few times and will be able to discuss w/SH in more details about my trip later this month, not sure if i will get a chance to talk to SH before i go on my trip, probably not. but definitely first thing when i get back. prayers to all of you, RR

RR, praying for you and the coming session. I haven't made the appt yet. I need few days to figure out what WH is at.

Had my session w/SH this morning, really wish we had more time to talk or at least he wasn't so expensive that i could talk to him more often.

i brought him up to date, especially w/the conversation i had w/H and what he said. SH said yep, yep a lot like what my H said was to be expected. he siad the only thing for me to do the next time is not really high light the times when my H slips up and says things. in other words if my H says that he is "afraid" or that he "doesn't want to" that i can't really point that out. not that i wasn't calm or that i didn't raise my voice, only that to remind me to not do this in the future if my H should do this and i should probably expect that he might.

i told him that i didn't think this conversation would occur so "soon" and i am afraid that these type of conversations will occure more frequently but not because i bring them up. SH agreed that H will probably become more insistant and consistent that this is what he has to do. but in the end even if i do a perfect plan, etc. things still may not work out. but it's more of serving myself regardless of the end, that i want to be able to look back and say i did all i could. i told SH that i was concerned about coming across as "controlling" because i am also being adament that things could be different. SH said it would be controlling if i hadn't made any changes but since i have and have made a lot of significant changes then in the end it's just reinforcing an idea versus being controlling.

SH gave me some more "material" which i really think i needed. it's basically the same stuff i have been saying but just in different ways. he says that he really wants to commend me for the way i've been because that is having an affect on my H and that i have gained a lot more ground then i think i have. this is because if i hadn't made the changes, if i hadn't been the way i have been then H would have filed for a D already. SH said that i'm actually making it difficult for him to file, that he's less certain that D is the best option, he's 2nd guessing himself and in essence asking ME to file. i told SH that i feel that the OW has a pretty good hold on H and that if anything he is so afraid of hurting her now. SH agreed that he probably might feel obligated, especially w/the involvment of his family and that if he went back that he would just be perceived as weak. but i shouldn't be resigned to think that he will never come back, only that this is what he may be thinking. he agrees w/me that he is most definitely feeling pressure from somewhere and that it's pretty easy to file if that's what he wanted to do.

SH said he can tell i'm very determined and this can serve me well but to still kind of prepare myself so as not to be startled. i told SH that i can't hold to the idea that my H will never file, that i think it will be very likely that he will because i'm certainly not going to be the one that files. we talked about the trip to FL later this month and how i didn't think it was a good idea anymore. that i wasn't as convinced as i was, that i was afraid that i would be served while i was there or that H would make me meet OW or something bad would happen while i was there. SH agreed because in the fog state my H might hand me a D as a bday present to OW in an effort to show her something or like i said make us meet one another, etc. SH said it was kind of up to me. that if i went down there then just to be prepared for the worst but he also thought it might could be put off, especially since i pretty much know i received the extension.

as far as when my H says that i need to let him go, SH said to say that "this isn't really a letting you go problem-i'm holding onto a truth, a fact that if the 2 of us worked on things together than we could be happy." or "it's not that i'm holding on you but holding onto a fact that if we follow a set of rules we would fall in love again, but unfortunately you don't see that. i'm moving forward knowing there's an alternative that we can be happinly married for the rest of our lives."

if my h were to raise his voice or just get real adament about having to get a D, that he can't go back, that he has to do this or that, then i just come back w/(in a calm voice) "look, this where I am, if we were to stay married i believe that there's a way to be happy and i think it's about time we really try to work on being happy together."

if H talks about how long this is been going on then i could say again "you're right, i think it's about time we really try to work on being happy together." or "that this has been going on a long time and i don't want to hurt you anymore, we have the same goals but just differ on the solution."

he has said a few times that he loves me and if he says this again, then i can say "well, that's a good place to start" and/or "a reason to believe there's hope."

i said bottom line, H could be preparing to file as we speak and that i wasn't sure really what i could do. didn't feel like the courts would really sympathize w/me and that if i could force things to go to trial, then what? SH said really the only time things go to trial is when things are in dispute and in our case the only that's really in dispute is the fact i don't want a D and h does and that i believe there's a way to rebuild the M and H doesn't. SH said the courts don't really care and won't since we don't have kids and will just see us as adults who need to deal w/this. that even if i thought i needed more time to handle this and that i had a traumatic experience, et. then that is what counseling is for, etc.

i told SH that it is very sad that i've been married 11 years and have already been written off by the in-laws. that i haven't heard from them at all. i sent a baby present last month for one of the SIL who had a baby on 6/30/04. SH said that my H's nature to avoid conflict probably didn't fall far from the tree and that he didn't pick up those skills on the street.

SH said just to keep doing what i can, that it is working but still no matter how perfect i am that it still may not work out but that shouldn't keep me from doing all i can in the interim. he said i should still keep up w/the contact, that what has "happened" hasn't really changed things. but agreed w/me on not sending the book right now.

will let you know when the next session is, probably in 2-3 weeks. prayers to all of you, RR

forgot to mention that SH wants me to ask H to talk to him again, make it a request for him. i told SH that i was afraid to do this right now given the timing after our last conversation. SH said if he says no then just to say "i'll let SH know." the last time H talked to SH was the end of May.

i'm just not convinced that now is the best time to ask H to talk to SH. i will talk to H about it but not right now, i think i will wait 2-3weeks. i have to come up w/a way to pay for all this anyway. i just honestly don't see my H agreeing to talking to SH, i mean it is MB for goodness sake and i think my H said that to SH the last time that they talked that of course he was saying what he was saying because he was from marriage builders. i personally think it would be more convincing if SH called H himself even if it was to leave a message and state he would like to talk to him.

prayers to all, RR

^ for heroswife

just had what i'm calling my "wrap up" session w/SH. i can't afford to counsel w/him anymore but i also don't think i necessarily need to given the circumstances.

i brought him up to date on everything and told him that i've basically decided to not really prolong the D because i don't want to come off as a bitter and angry woman and i can't stop the d anyway. i read him the last few thing that my H has sent me. SH of course agreed w/me that H does not have an accurate sense of what is involved as far as the financial situation and he advised me to try and avoid discussing financial things w/my H except for the house issues and that i should really go through my lawyer and get a legal perspective of what h can and can't do.

talked about the period after the D and that it will be a dust settling stage and that he recommends not dating for 6 months, 3 months at the minimum. i voiced my concerns w/getting involved w/someone and then things turn around w/h and then where i would be. SH said i really need to protect myself in the field and that i should use my "instrument panel" to guide me in my actions and that i've been given rules in the Bible to help me in these matters because they are things to live by regardless of how we feel at the time. but that it's better to establish boundaries at the beginning then trying to back track.

SH said he was confident that i would make the right decisions in all of this and that i have a good grasp of the MB concepts and what is needed and isn't concerned w/me not continuing the sessions w/him. he asked me if i regret anything that i've done in all this and i said no, that i could honestly look back and not regret anything i've done since i have found MB and started counseling w/him and couldn't even think of anything i could have done differently given my situation. he said that was the goal is to have walked the path and be able to loook back and not have any regrets.

so i thanked him said God bless you and maybe i would talk to him again some day. so that's the end of this chapter of my sessions w/SH i hope that it has helped some and has definitely helped me in remembering things we talked about. prayers to all, RR

roughroad,

I wanted to commend you for taking the time to detail your counseling experiences here---you have no idea how many people you will impact with this post.

I'll keep you in my prayers---it's not done until it's done, and I'd second the advice to wait a while after the divorce before moving on and being to see other people.

roughroad - Well, you are right, you did all you could. And I agree with Steve, you should not start dating for awhile. I am on the 19th month of this stuff, and have filed for D.

Even after the D, I am going to take some time before I go out with anyone. It takes a long time to heal, and I don't want to drag this baggage to my next relationship.

Have a great weekend.

thanks K and believer for replying, i wasn't sure anyone was actually reading this thread anymore <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

roughroad, I think quite a few people read this thread and I know that I try to point people to it who seem to be in the same type of situation. I think everything in here is invaluable and will help many more people to come.

You know what I've kind of figured out? There are several people on the board who seem to have spouses who are the type to "never look back"...that even if they feel they have made a mistake, you can't ever see their spouses acting on that fact. I think your H is one of them..graycloud's and juke's wives seem to be like that as well. I think my husband will fall into this category but it's too early to tell. Anyway, I think many of the posters just do not know how to respond to that type of situation. They're afraid of their own spouses being like that so they stay away. They don't like to read about a situation where they don't feel like they have an advice that will help. And you know that's true for me too...I don't like reading threads where I don't feel like I can help constructively--it's just too depressing..and there are some people currently posting that I just want to say..."quit whining and DO something"..lol..but of course that's not very constructive.

RR, thinking of you. Please do not leave us even you decide to go the other route. You did all you could, and you are being faithful to your VOWs and GOD.

{{{{{{{{{RR}}}}}}}}

^ for SML

^ for what to do