WAT, what did you mean? - Marriage Builders® Forums

I read this in another topic and was curious as to what you meant by it...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> except in the instances of "exit affairs" in which the WS decides to leave the marriage first and then finds an affair to help make it happen <hr /></blockquote>thanks

FL - first, I sincerely wish for your success.

We jousted a while back and I regret any ill feelings.

I believe "exit affairs" are a rare different breed from the garden variety dealt with on this forum.

Instead of a symptom of a pseudo "involuntary" response to an unsought stimulus, an exit affair is a calculated strategy to end a relationship, I believe. In an exit affair, the WS seeks to end the marriage/relationship for whatever reason and strategically conducts an affair, hence with two victims, to end the marriage/relationship, providing a ready reason.

That's my layman's assessment. I do know that most publications exclude "exit affairs" from the realm of affairs they address.

Make sense?

Exit affairs are mentioned in Dave Carder's book, "Torn Asunder." Some good info about the nature of them, odds of WS returning to M, etc.

My own addition to WAT's definition is that if a S is totally withdrawn emotionally from the M, basically just "going through the motions" - but hasn't left the R, then I think an exit A is the next logical step.

Of course, a more mature step would be to talk to your S, OR divorce! But as we all know, not every "unhappy" S can do that on their own. Kind of have to be talked into it by their future A partner. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

lup - you're a real gem. Any prospects?

WAT

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by worthatry:
 lup - Any prospects?

<hr /></blockquote>Hey, WAT -

WHAT am I "prospecting" for?!?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Guys!!!!

C'mon!!!

A Babe like you? With your intellect??? Un- , er, "involved"????

WAT

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by worthatry:
 A Babe like you? With your intellect??? Un- , er, "involved"????

WAT <hr /></blockquote>Sir,

You FLATTER ME!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

lup,

Watch this guy, he is a silver tongued devil. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

JL

My WH got ahold of some research online about exit affairs. He said that he was done with the marriage a long time ago, and that this was his way of getting out.

So I had two questions in response to this "revelation."

1.) If he really wanted this A to be his way to exit, why does he tell me he is not ready to D when I ask him if that is his desired course of action? I offer him up the "get out of jail free card," basically telling him, if he wants out, let me know, and I will take the action to make it official. He always responds that he is not ready for that.

2.) If the A really was the catalyst to just take that next step (albeit cowardly) to get out of the M, why are you still involved with the OW? In other words, if his theory holds true, it is not about her, just about the act of the A hopefully being the catalyst that enables him a way out (under the presumption that I tell him to get the hell out). Since he is on his own, in his own apartment, I am in Plan B, and by all the looks of things, he is OUT, why is he still involved with her. Wasn't she just a means to an end? So why waste any more time or energy on that relationship.

This kinda stuff really makes me feel hopeless. Because from my perspective, the M was relatively good. Of course we did flush out some serious problems since discovery of the A(communication problems during conflict, LBs on both sides, some internal issues stemming back from LONG before our M), overall, we enjoyed each other's company, recreational activities, companionship, sex (although not frequently enough for me), etc. He even said at one point, as we made some of these distinctions, that he wishes we would have made them sooner, because we would have had a WILDLY fullfilling life together.

His perspective on the M is different. He concedes all of the above in one breath, and then goes on to explain that the pain he felt over the areas that our M fell short was so INTENSE, that he lived his life completely and utterly miserable.

So how much of that is fog talk, rewriting history, or reality (and if we want to get more philosophical, isn't reality mostly perception anyways). So....was it an "exit affair" or, was it my WH trying to legitimize how the hell he could have done this, so he went back, fictionalized or dramatized all his misery, created this premise that he wanted out, and then conveniently found a counseling term that fit his hypothesis?

At this point, who cares. It is working. He is exiting his way right out of my marriage. But if he doesn't pull his head out of his rear, he will find that the exit door is barred shut, locked, and boarded over.

I feel that MOST affairs are exit affairs. Even if they are not calculated or planned on purpose, a cheating spouse on some levels realizes that his/her affair could spell the end of the marriage/relationship and yet chooses to proceed anyways.

Or are we talking about purposely and with intent having an affair to end the marriage?

I have a strong feeling that my wife's affair was an exit affair. To many things point at that direction and to tell the truth I can't blame her. (My official goal now is to reverse the conditions she was trying to exit from and hence entice her to return.)

dewt

Christy - very, very frequently, the WS uses the "exit affair" logic as an excuse.

Don't believe it.

A "real" exit affair is SO rare as to make your sitch not a candidate.

Don't dwell on it.

He is NOT in an exit affair. It just doesn't fit.

Exit affairs are VERY rare. It takes an extroidinarily perverse and financially lucrative circumstance to make them plausible.

WAT

[ April 20, 2004, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]

Elaborate on that.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ChristyV:
 Elaborate on that. <hr /></blockquote>For the reasons YOU elaborate. He's very, very classic in a garden variety affair. IMHO.

WAT

WAT....with your charm, you could easily be my ex-OM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> !!!

Nay, nay, Lisa - not me.

I'm very much an X-BS, smitten by a new love..........

WAT,

first, absolutely no hard feelings here. I am too busy trying to get myself and my life in order to worry about holding on to any grudges here. i generally don't hold on to grudges, (well, except against my H <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> but that was the old me. not anymore). plus i truely believe everyone here is here with a desire to heal as well as help others.

so, thanks for the sincere wish for success.

regarding the exit affair topic, i believe that is what mine was about. i don't know if it really makes a difference at this point but i was curious about why you excluded exit affair scenerios in your post.

i can't quite figure out what is going on in my head as to why your comment stuck out.

yes, lupolady, it is a very immature way to handle a situation.

I believe mine was an exit affair, and i fear that is worse than the other type of As. I don't know why I am worrying about this. I just want to be sure, my H wants to move forward, I just want to be sure of myself so that i don't hurt him anymore.

Can a person who was so sure the marriage had to end, really ever be a good spouse? My H is having a hard time understanding it all too. He has asked me many times, if you had the affair to end the marriage, why didn't it end??? i told him the main reason was how tight he started holding on to me. but having it go on for 2 1/2 years... it is hard for him (and me) to understand.

all i know is i want to resolve all these issues in me. i can't ever allow anything like this to ever happen again.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by FinallyLearning:
I believe mine was an exit affair, and i fear that is worse than the other type of As.<hr /></blockquote>Maybe yours started out that way because you felt no hope in your marriage?

Could be we're splitting hairs here trying to define something that each of us will have a different definition for.

I initially struggled with whether my WS's affair was an exit affair. She was SO sure of everything and didn't waver one iota. Well, just once she seemed to peek thru the fog and marched off to inform OM that "this sordid situation is OVER!" Apparently he sucked her back in right away.

Anyway, in working with Steve Harley, he informed me that this was a classic, classic, classic affair. NOT an exit affair. So that advice and my own experience and reading has defined what it is and isn't for me. Hmmmm, I vaguely recall Pittman addressing it in "Private Lies." Maybe I'll refresh that. My oldstimers disease again.

Anyway, it makes sense to me that real exit affairs ARE worse - because the decision has been made to leave the marriage already - BEFORE rationalizing it via influence of an OP.

I suppose there's a fuzzy middle ground in which a disgruntled spouse is already teetering and procrastinating leaving a marriage or experiencing a life crisis (like my WS) when along comes OP. Any port in a storm. When do the scales tip to an "official" exit affair? And does it matter?

WAT

WAT, thanks for sharing. i am not sure if this matters or not either. but it is something i am working thru in my head just the same.

i definitely felt no hope in the marriage, i was also in personal crisis mode due to death of my dad (very bad relationship). H knew I was struggling but decided it was all about my dad and did not think MC was needed at all. I think he still believes i have not resolved my issues around my dad and that it will continue to be a problem between us. i don't know what to do about that.

i did go to some IC with the same C as we were seeing as our MC. She had me write a note and then i read it to an empty chair during a different session. I'm not really sure it had any impact on me. In my opinion, relationship with dad was what is was, it is over now, he died 4-1, 2001. i saw him days before he died and i did not allow any room for any kind of warm/fuzzy conversation. i feel like an extremely cold person for taking that stand but i just couldn't open myself up to any more hurt and no matter what he said, i would not have believed him anyway, it would not of mattered, past cannot be changed by talking.

i listen to myself and i realize on some level i think the same way towards H. Our relationship was so non-existance, we were so distant from each other, in my eyes H abandoned me, he may as well had an affair himself (which i know he did not). and i tell myself, nothing can change all that, where do i really find the hope again?

one thing i have to keep telling myself is that a parent-child relationship is NOT the same as a husband-wife relationship. A parent is supposed to love and nuture a child, no matter what, unconditionally. Husbands/Wives have their own needs too and that has to be taken into consideration. ideally the love between H/W grows into an uncondintional love, but i think that is something that only occurs over time, as each partner feels comfortable, accepted, loved and safe.

My H states he has never felt safe with me, from the get-go. He never felt secure and that will certainly impact the way a person acts. I do not think I am the root cause to his inablity to feel safe. i am not sure what is, i know he did not have much luck with g/f's before me, but he has never really wanted to talk about his past at all. i wish he would, i think it would help him. but i do think i can either help heal the root cause or i can make it continue to hurt. i honestly did not understand that at age 19 when we met. I saw his jealousy problem as his problem and not something i was going to let impact me. i felt he was unreasonable to ask me to not have any male acquantances. i was in college at the time, computer science field, there were way more males than females. i am a very social person, i make friends whereever i am. when i worked at the computer center, i would go to lunch with co-workers (co-students) and the majority of them were male, it's just the way it was, there were so many more males in the area than females. when i graduated and started working in a company that does research and developement, the same was true, there were not many females around. so as the years went on, i continued to not want to help heal his issue around feeling safe. i just never understood. and i did not like the way he assumed that a person cannot have innocent male friends. i find i still struggle with that concept. i tend to think it should be ok to have male friends, but as i, myself, look ateverything that has occured throughout the years, maybe he is 100% right.

at this point, i get it now, and i want to help him feel safe, helping him feel safe is finally important to me now. i realize it should of been all along, i just didn't understand it. i know i can help in that area now.

on my side of it, i needed to feel loved, but he held back because he didn't feel safe. he didn't see my need as something he caused and therefore not something he was responsible to help with. He felt it was all about my dad, not his concern.

so if i can look at my side of it and feel confident that i get it now and can help fullfill his need, why can't i feel confident that the same can go the opposite way, that H maybe didn't get the things about me due to who he was, but he has changed and grown since he was 22 (which is how old he was when we met) and that he can get it now even if he didn't back then. i just need to learn to trust him. so easy to write, so hard and scary to do!!!

then going back to the original question... exit affair or not, why does it really matter anyway. For me, OP did not happen along, i specifically went into a local area chat room with the intent of finding someone, hence exit affair applies. of course at that point i had been involved in internet chatting for over a year. the first person i chatted with and became emotionally attached to did just come along, i was not searching it out then, i just went in chat room because i was always feeling so lonley, H was out of town on business and my sister talked a lot about chatting on line with people and how she had been getting to know this whole group of people and really liked it all. that was really the beginning of it all. exit affair did not apply there.

in conclusion!!! because it seems useless to just ramble on and on without a conclusion. i am going to not forget the past, but i need to let it go to some degree, not let the past make me fear the future so much. take all i have learned from here and love and trust my H till death due us part.

I am really looking forward to him coming home on thurs. this is the last of all these trips until next spring. other out of town jobs may come up her or there but this big one is over.

thanks again. feedback always welcomed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by FinallyLearning:
at this point, i get it now, and i want to help him feel safe, helping him feel safe is finally important to me now. i realize it should of been all along, i just didn't understand it. i know i can help in that area now.

on my side of it, i needed to feel loved, but he held back because he didn't feel safe. he didn't see my need as something he caused and therefore not something he was responsible to help with.<hr /></blockquote>A vicious circle, huh? The marriage death spiral.

Hopefully you can reverse the circle and turn it into a positive feedback loop.

Good luck.

WAT

Finally:

Question. You were "done" in the marriage (it strikes a nerve in me to hear that, because those are the hurtful words I hear from my WH right now). What made you be "undone?" At what point, did you say, ok, I've committed this act I am not proud of, I really DO want my H, I will RE-comitt to my M now.

You make a comment that he held on so tight. But he did not know you were having an A at the time you made this shift. If he had known, would he have behaved differently, that could have potentially "sealed the deal," moving you to officially end the M?

I so desperately want to save my M. I love my WH so much. I want this M. I want to preserve my family, and I am absolutely TERRIFIED, that everything I do that feels right, seems to make it worse. It is like opposite day every day. Something that would have reached him before, pushes him further away. Something I never in a million years would have guessed he would say or do, he does.

I was hurting so bad after WH moved out, that I thought I should share this, in a non-threatening, non-confrontational way, but a way to maybe help him see where I am in all of this, and in some way demonstrate to him how much I love him, despite all the hurt. Every contact I have had with my WH since he moved out has eventually morphed into this HORRIBLY painful, mutually damaging thing...that I often hang up the phone thinking, what the hell just happened. Opposite Day yet again. Most people call it the fog, I call it a bad, bad mental trip (I am PRAYING I wake up from the nightmare any minute). Thus why I am in Plan B. The last communication we had (this was after I already gave him a letter telling him I wanted to eliminate direct contact with him as a means to protect my love for him, until he decided to end it with the OW, and then mistakenly indulged in several direct conversations that hurt me very, very, very deeply, probably more deeply than the A), consisted of a financial talk, that eventually had me in a place where I felt totally emotionally beat down. I quietly told my WH that I did not want to argue, that I felt defeated and beat down, and told him I had to excuse myself from the call now. I was so quiet in this statement, my voice was barely over a whisper.

I now wonder what this (no contact with him) is doing, if anything, if my WH thinks he just wanted out. Now he is defintely "out"..out of the house, out of church, out of the family, out of our close knit group of friends, out of our hopes, dreams and goals, out. He has the exit...but he is not fully walking through the door and moving on...to her, to a new life for himself, anything. Just seemingly in limbo.

Anyways, not to put pressure on you, point fingers, anything, I was just really wanting your prespective, without all the "fog" talk (and the pain that goes with those conversation with my WH).

Thanks in advance for sharing anything you may be comfortable with! :-)

Oops! I had it all wrong!

I thought "exit affair" was when you did it in the out turnstyle, as opposed 2 the "entrance affair" where you did it in the IN exit. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Humor, it's what's for dinner.

-2long

FL,

I in my opinion you did NOT have an exit affair. Most I have read about here, have them, then tell their spouse and leave. The reason for the affair was not so much to hurt the spouse although it did, it was to have a soft place to land. If you really wanted to leave all you had to do was tell your H of the affair.

You said a lot about your Dad, and I have a feeling is that your interaction with him has colored how you view men when the situation becomes more than just friends for lunch. I am guessing your H always felt you holding back, and that feeling provides one with a lot of alerts.\

But, what is most interesting to me is that despite your H's insecurities about other men in your life and despite what you were withholding from him, he acted far differently than your Dad. He loved you, he "holding on to you."

I think your last posts need to be printed out and shown to your H soon. I think they illustrate your struggles not with him so much as with you. I think they are starting to crystalize in your mind that you have been more strongly affected by your family situation than you thought.

But, most interestingly to me, you are seeing that your H understood you pretty well. What I think you need to understand is that you need to understand him as well. He will need your help now.

FL, I am thinking at long last you have a chance to have the marriage you wanted and were afraid to have. I think your H is growing and learning as well, but it seems to me his instincts aren't so bad.

FL you said <blockquote>quote:<hr />at this point, i get it now, and i want to help him feel safe, helping him feel safe is finally important to me now. i realize it should of been all along, i just didn't understand it. i know i can help in that area now.

on my side of it, i needed to feel loved, but he held back because he didn't feel safe. he didn't see my need as something he caused and therefore not something he was responsible to help with. He felt it was all about my dad, not his concern.

so if i can look at my side of it and feel confident that i get it now and can help fullfill his need, why can't i feel confident that the same can go the opposite way, that H maybe didn't get the things about me due to who he was, but he has changed and grown since he was 22 (which is how old he was when we met) and that he can get it now even if he didn't back then. i just need to learn to trust him. so easy to write, so hard and scary to do!!! <hr /></blockquote>These are key statements and I think you need to reflect on them and discuss them with your H. What can YOU do to help him recover??? You stated it right her. Apart from all of the details, you need to make him feel safe. You get it now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

FL, I don't think you realize how big a breakthrough that is. He needs to hear that. No matter what his list entails, if you make him feel safe and loved, YOU will have done a very very good thing.

Please think abott that.

God Bless,

JL

JL - you sage, you. You picked up pretty much what I noticed, but, as usual, you took it to the next level.

However,
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Just Learning:
Please think abott that.<hr /></blockquote>A bit early on the left coast for magaritas? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WAT

WAT,

I am surprised at you. You know that "left coast" means "left brains...somewhere". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I cannot seem to find mine today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

JL

Nicely done, JL.

You'll be pleased (and maybe jealous?) to hear that I had crab cakes for dinner - sprinkled with Old Bay.

WAT

funny how reading these posts can make a person cry and then laugh.

i am mega stressed out right now. i signed on to start a topic to say just that. I AM STRESSED, HELP. kid stuff, work is bearing down so hard and all this marital stuff. CALGON TAKE ME AWAY. that is actually a good point, i think i definetly need to soak in tub tonight to unwind. i'll take one of those maragritas too.

i am stressed but i do see a light at the end of the tunnel. the dress i have been making for my daughter is finally done (musical at school), i feel like i really will be able to get house back in shape yet tonight so it will look good for H's return. tommorow is take your daughter to work day which i will but i have so much to accomplish tommorow too!!!!

cristyv, i am sorry for your pain, i will post more tonight to you.

2long, thanks for the laugh.

JL, i was actually was thinking about printing this topic to show to my husband. i just am not sure he would be happy to see how much i am sharing here.

wat, i love crab cakes too!!

FL,

Just tell him the part I put in quotes. It seems to me you are starting see things far differently. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> That is a very good thing. I think if you tell him your task is to make him feel safe, and be safe, he will begin to realize that you do understand.

You may not realize this but that is one of the main reasons people marry...so have someone to share life with and feel safe facing the fates.

You are getting it I think and you are really progressing far better than you realize. Don't be surprised if he comes back sort of down and out. Being away from you can be hard on him right now. Just take it in stride. You are strong enough to do this.

God Bless,

JL

PS: WAT you are an evil evil man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Torturing me like that. I just love Maryland crab cakes.

JL - I know you don't really mean I'm evil. Do you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Get yer butt over here and we'll find some.

A good crab season is predicted on The Bay. It's a bit early now, which is why I defaulted to the crab cakes. Come June the Jimmies ought to be steaming up nicely. No Sooks, you know.

Have you ever read "Beautiful Swimmers" by William W. Warner? It's A Pulitzer Prize winner about watermen, crabs, and The Bay. A MUST read for all lovers of crabs and The Bay.

WAT

[ April 21, 2004, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]

I have a curiosity question if I may be so bold to ask...FL and WAT, how old are you guys?

Hi Lisa, I'm FL, I'm female and I am 40.

I know you meant to ask JL and WAT their ages.
I think i know which decade JL is in, but I'll let him answer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I have no idea how old WAT is.

Christyv, my computer stopped working earlier and i could not finish my post, i am sorry, sometimes i really hate these computers!!! so i took a 30 min walk instead, and then picked up my son from soccer, now i am back and i am writing to you in your mourning post.

JL, as always you give me so much to reflect on, thanks. i'll probably post more later. I will say my stress level dropped way down now, between these posts and the 30 min walk. I still have a ton to do tonight but i sure feel better prepared now!!

Lisa - you mean JL and WAT, right? FL is NOT a guy - best we can tell. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My sig line - when enabled, see below - says I'm 49. That's a bold face lie. I'm actually 50. I tried to update my sig line back in Feb. when I turned 50, but the updated forum software - updated since I turned 49 in '03 - won't let me change it without also making it a lot shorter. There's a character limit now that apparently I exceed. Sometime, I guess I'll have to go in and edit it down to be in compliance and correct my age at the same time.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

JL IS older than me - always will be.

So, why do you ask? Is it because we act so "youthful"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We're so "vibrant" and "alive"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

FL...I'm so sorry..major typo on my part. I know that you're female. I meant JL and WAT. WAT, thanks for revealing your age. You and JL have a tremendous amount of insight on here, that's why I was asking. From your signature line, I can certainly tell that you have been through enough hard times to have earned your wisdom. I'm really sorry about the tragedy that you have had to face in your life and yet you remain compassionate, firm, but very compassionate and yes VIBRANT!!! I'm 42 so I guess I have another 8 years to go, right?

WAT,

Did Lisa say she was 42??? She doesn't look a day over 30. Heck neither does FL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Children! WAT what are we going to do with them? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Lisa, I am 58 and old enough to know better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lisa, when I was your age, my youngest was just thinking about being born. I'm a slow learner. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

JL

no, FL is NOT a guy, best as i can tell <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> no worries Lisa.

JL, you had a baby when you were 42??? wow, what were you thinking? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> How is your son doing with his recovery?

oh, so they changed the allowed number of characters in the sig. line. i wondered about that, i ran into the limit problem too. i didn't think mine was any longer than some others i had seen, that explains it!!

i am 40 but excuse me, i don't look a day over 25!! ok, that is a bold faced lie!!!

WAT, your story is very sad, they say the death of a child will either bring a couple closer or tear them apart. when we lost catherine (she was born premature and did not survive) it drew us closer. i remember how much that meant to me. i wrote her a note that i put in the coffin with her, and in it i vowed that i would not allow us to slide back, that i would somehow keep the closeness intact. obviously i failed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> She would of been 12 in May. Losing a child is a terrible thing to live thru, i didn't realize your child was ill for a long time, that would take a toll on a marriage too.

JL,

i wanted to re-read your comments before going to bed, but i don't think i will try to respond here at all, just reflecting on it myself tonight. I just talked to H a few minutes ago, we had a pleasant talk. his job is going well, he got to sneak off and play golf this afternoon, he is in san diego, said the course was beautiful, right on the coast.

i am so looking forward to his return, i was stressing out about it earlier but i have calmed down, i hope i stay calm tommorow!!! i asked him if he was going to want to talk tommorow or just enjoy each others company, he said just enjoy being home. i am glad, i have missed him, i would really like to just be together and relax some. I have the Norah Jones song, Come Away with me, stuck in my head. i heard it earlier, i have heard it a million times, but the words struck me more tonight.
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I want to wake up with the rain
Falling on a tin roof
While I'm safe there in your arms
<hr /></blockquote>that is a really nice thought, isn't it?

i don't know why, but i like the idea that mine was NOT an exit affair. somehow that is comforting to me. we women are strange creatures, don't ya think?? "having a soft spot to land" definitely does describes it. very, very selfish, but it doesn't feel as mean-spirited.

[ April 22, 2004, 01:42 AM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]

FL,

I am glad you are not stressing. It is good to be calm.

Son is doing fine. Out of the hospital,needed another op to sort out problems. He is 20lbs lighter. I told him I could loan him a few. His football coach is bummed he was up to 220 and he is skinny. NOw he is under 200 and he is a stick. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Ah! to be young again.

But, all in all things are fine.

Good night FL I must go home and get some sleep.

God Bless,

JL

I always pic2red WAT and JL as old men with long white hair and flowing beards...

But then I met JL in DC back there in 2002. Away went that mental image. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

But I always though WAT was older than me. Now I know different! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I remember when I 2rned 50, but only because it was just over a year ago.

You know the thing I miss most about getting older?...

...um, what was that 2uestion again?

-ol' 2long

Yes, age does have its benefits. Hmmmm, what were they?

Long white hair?

Closer to NO hair! Well, JL has me beat in the hair dept.

Speaking of hair, I have figured out - with age - why older guys seem to have more hair growing out of their ears. I believe it's because they can't see up close in the mirror as well as they used to. Thus, they can't see that they need to trim it.

If I ever go bald, I plan on letting my eyebrows and the hair on my ears grow long so I can comb it over my head.

are you guys having fun???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I think they are FL. What do you expect from a bunch of old guys LOL

I always pictured JL as about 70 (sorry JL you do keep going on about how old you are) - I don't know about the flowing beard and long white hair - more the Southern Gentleman type - Big Daddy in "Cat on a Tin Roof." Without the weight.

Back to you FL.

Jenny

JL *is* "about 70", give or take a dozen years! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' 2long

i'm starting to conclude JL is not in the states.

the other day it was like 2:42am (board time anyway) and he made a comment about it being time to go home. or maybe he works nights??

JL, you are hard to figure out. from what i understand, your marriage has not been impacted by infidelity and yet you give so much here and such good advice.

i don't need to understand though. i'm just grateful. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

FL,

Yup in the US just working on proposals for research grants. Got 4 out this week and only have 1 to go. What a pain. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

As for the Southern Gentleman, well I am working on that "prosperous" look. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I think it is time for me to diminish. I can do a good southern accent though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I went to school in the south. Or I can do Texas. I cannot do a New Zealand though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Now if you want to see father time, 2L has that look going. I think it is a bit of a ZZ top thing myself. But, then I like that band alot.

I will say this ladies. I have tipped a few with WAT and with 2L, I think the three of us getting together might lead to a long night, but it would be a blast.

Must go.

JL

So be it - a long night.

I'll stake claim to Southern Gentlemanship (U.S. variety - but I did have an Aussie au pair for a year - just couldn't get a hold of that Vegemite thing - and a S.African au pair for another while).

Speaking of ZZTop - JL, 2L, and myself could form our own trio. I just don't think there'd be much music made. We'd have to work on our beards, too.

I don't foresee coming to the left coast any time soon. You other two may have to get back east. Will be going to Tortola and the other "Virgins" in June if you want to come along and get re-cycled.

WAT

Aha WAT so that's how you know so much about this part of the world.

I had Vegemite on my toast this morning - it's a Kiwi thing as well - the Aussie's stole the idea. Huh, typical.

Can I come too when you three get together, can I, can I, please, please.

NOW ALL THREADJACKING WILL DESIST IMMEDIATELY.

Jenny

Yes, having a teenage Aussie daughter for a year was, er, stimulating?

I learned a LOT.

Hopefully, she did too.

However, I could not get the hang of Vegemite or Marmite - I still have some unused in my cupboard.

I DID, however, enjoy the "beetfruit" on my burgers as well as the dinner time debates.

I also learned what a "ute" was, "no worries", and hosted both her Mom and Dad for visits.

In addition to the Aussie, I had au pairs from E.Germany, Norway, and S.Africa.

Hopefully, I have four international weddings to go to.

When the phone rings, I can say, "Just a minute, I'll get her," in four languages. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

WAT

Jenny,

How about we show up at your place. I know 2L gets on the road overseas from time to time, and I do as well. WAT, I am not so sure they will let him out of the country. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Got to say, the vegamite was not one of my favorites, but then maybe I just need to try it more.

Must go. You guys behave.

JL

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Just Learning:
the vegamite was not one of my favorites, but then maybe I just need to try it more.<hr /></blockquote>I can send you some, JL.

Better yet, I'll bring it when I come to meet you and 2L (and everybody else who shows up) for dinner here.

WAT

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by worthatry:
My sig line - when enabled, see below - says I'm 49. That's a bold face lie. I'm actually 50.<hr /></blockquote>Apologies to FL, but I'm continuing the hijacking of her thread.

WAT, as I mentioned in another thread, as a computer guy I now count in hex. IIRC you're engineering and probably get me. Heck, at 32 you're not even in your prime.

I'm not far from the big 30 myself, so I look to you and JL for role models as I get closer to a more adult age.

Steve

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by StillHers:
IIRC you're engineering and probably get me.<hr /></blockquote>Steve, I don't know what IIRC means.

Engineering, yes, but you'll never guess what kind.

WAT

Oh heck now someone will try Vegemite and think what do these people EAT? It's one of those things you grow up with or you don't. My South African friend at work thinks chilli flavoured jerky is the best thing around. Excuse me? Chilli flavoured jerky? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

So now that's WAT and JL visiting us for dinner. Any other takers?

Jenny

Jenny - just fix the mutton and find a slip for a big cat. I'll hail you on 16. All will be well.

However, I do not have a feel for the local Kiwi brew. Advice?

I'll be there maybe in seven or eight years on my circumnavigation.

WAT

[ April 23, 2004, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]

WAT,

IIRC == If I Recall Correctly.

There used to be posts around here giving some of the acronyms, but maybe IIRC is more of a techie kind of acronym than an MB one.

For the non-techie audience, hex = base 16. Therefore 32 (hex) = ( 3 * 16 ) + (2 * 1 ) = 50 (base 10).

Ah well, at least it sounds better. Wish I could head East some some crabcakes but I'm stuck in Texas.

Geez Steve, you techies are all the same <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Whatever happened to good old English. LOL

Crabcakes, yum.

WAT I would never cook tough old mutton in a million years - we only cook sweet spring lamb here.

We have plenty of slips for a big cat. (Hey I'm from a sailing family that all made sense to me LOL). Unlike techie talk. Sorry, Steve, couldn't live without you guys in the office.

Jenny

Jenny,

I help admin servers in Europe and Asia, as well as North America. Unfortunately, none are down under.

Otherwise, if I could arrange a trip, I'd gladly trade some tech help for a sailing lesson. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My late brother once had an interest in a 32' sailboat here in Houston, but I never got a chance to participate in the fun. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Steve