To all the WWs out there - Marriage Builders® Forums

I am living proof that you can come out on the other side of the A and be stronger. I've been reading some posts lately from WWs and how they are confused and in the horrible fog and following feelings. I'm here to tell you definitively that your feelings will only lead you deeper into the fog and possibly out of a family and M. Follow what you know to be is right. A M is a covenant that God takes very seriously and the two shall become one. Then if the two become two again, God did not do that - we did. Bring the two back together to be one again. That part is up to us!

Have faith in God! Have faith in yourself! And learn again to have faith in your M again. It takes a lot of work, but it can happen. Don't believe those voices that are telling you "it can't work," or "you will never make it." Those things are coming from your feelings - and they cannot be trusted to lead you out of trouble!

Keep the Faith!!!

Thank you so much! I needed to hear that!

I'd pay just about anything to have somebody make my wife figure this out. She had EA 6 wks ago, it ended (I think) about a month ago, and she left me a week ago. Met yesterday and I did not beg or plead, was cool and cheerful and surprised her. Didn't even sulk when she gave me the old ILYBINILWY. She still wants an apt and is seeing an IC tomorrow but is not motivated to see an MC. I'm in the pit of despair most of the time. After IC session she'll decide whether or not to try MC with me. I doubt she'll do it. She has major conflict avoidance problems. I miss her so much right now I can barely breathe.

GC

Movin' on -- Thanks for the reminder that these things CAN work out.

GC -- You're way ahead of where I was at your point... It took me 2 months to figure out I should stop begging and pleading (I didn't find this site until recently). Just keep doing what you're doing.

Thank you for the words of encouragement...our D-day was 12/17/03 and I filed for divorce 1/9/04, BUT a lot happened and BH and I are here now, making it work, working for us to survive, and trying to build up a better marriage than before.

The thing about sticking to the M is that it takes a lot of Faith, Faith involves some degree of risk, and all of that is very scary.

Glad I chose this, though. I am sleeping better.

Keep the Faith.

I too am proof that God
is patient & loving &
understands that at times
we are not ourselves.
He & H have unconditional
love for me-I am human.
My A was a weakness in me,
not my M. I am stronger,
and so is my M. I thank
God everyday for my H.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> A M is a covenant that God takes very seriously and the two shall become one. Then if the two become two again, God did not do that - we did. Bring the two back together to be one again. That part is up to us!<hr /></blockquote>Movin’on, your post is a wonderful testimony…thanks for sharing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Hope, faith & love is indeed the 3 most important ingredients in life… I’m also a FWW who feels very grateful towards God for so many things in my life. I’m most grateful to God that he has used this painful experience in the end to make me a much stronger person and have used it to teach me very valuable lessons in life. God can certainly take any painful and negative experience and let something good came out of it if we are obedient to Him and have faith and trust in Him.

Blessings,
Suzet

[ June 08, 2004, 04:30 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]

thank you for this post movin' on, I am hoping that someday I can say that, it is a struggle right now. Not a struggle about the OM, that is done and I know it was a big mistake, no fog there.

The struggle is with myself, knowing that I have disappointed, hurt, betrayed and wondering if I haven't ruined everything. I am hoping, praying that my marriage will be stronger, will survive,
but this website does help me think there may be some hope, posts like yours, thank you again - Sandy

[ June 08, 2004, 06:35 AM: Message edited by: sl000 ]

[ July 28, 2004, 08:18 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Now that there are some WWs and FWWs here, I have two questions for you.

The first is: Why? In reading posts here, it seems that most WWs & FWWs don't really know, or there are many different reasons.

The second one is: Is there anything your unknowing husband could have said or done before the affair to prevent the affair?

I am sure there are more than just me who would be interested in your answers.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />The first is: Why? In reading posts here, it seems that most WWs & FWWs don't really know, or there are many different reasons.<hr /></blockquote>Because OM was a good friend, trusted, and I felt safe with him. H and I never worked through his A or any of the problems in our M prior to the A so I didn't feel safe in my M. H is prone to lots of LBing and after requesting over several months that we work thru it, I felt beaten down and dropped it. I shouldn't have.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />The second one is: Is there anything your unknowing husband could have said or done before the affair to prevent the affair? <hr /></blockquote>He could have believed me when I told him it was important to me that we find out what the issues were/are and work through them.
He could have believed me when I told him I felt afraid.
He could have believed me when I told him I didn't feel safe.
He could have believed me when I told him that hiding OW's contact attempts was far more damaging than telling me she'd attempted contact.

Why? I am still trying to figure that one out. We are in MC now to make sure that it doesn't happen again.

He was a friend and we talked a lot about life and what not. He gave me a sense of confidence that I have never had. He made me feel special, for lack of a better word.

Still, there was absolutely no excuse for my actions.

Sorry - second part: Could my H done something to prevent it?

I don't know, I don't think so. He was/is always wonderful to me. It was myself that risked our marriage, H was never part of the reason.

[ July 28, 2004, 08:18 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Get this, the latest thing she pulled is bringing the OM to our church with her at the service time that I go. One of the pastors there married us and several friends know us and what is going on. She is just humiliating herself IMO and angering me at the same time. Luckily I didn't go yesterday (had a gut feeling not to) because I think I could have attacked the guy right there in the service. I hate this guy now and may hate my wife by the end of this because of the way I am being treated. She has a lot of nerve. And it has only been barely one month since I found out about her affair. Any WW's out there who can explain her objective in going that low? Why is she treating me like a piece of garbage now when she was proclaiming her love to me right before this crap? I hate to say I wish bad things for them, but I want them to suffer consequences for this. Right now I feel like I am the only one who is hurt in this. Unbelievable. I think she is capable of anything now and that is scary. It's weird when the "best" (so u think) person in your life turns into the scum of the earth. I just don't get it. opinions?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Broken Vessell:
 2 things I have learned:

1. No matter how your marriage is at the moment, NEVER open up to another person of opposite sex, even though you are 'just' friends in your mind.

Believe me it creates thoughts and feelings that you never thought you had or would have. The power of conversation and feelings of closeness in it should never be underestimated... Conversation whether through the internet or personally is an EXTREMELY POWERFUL TOOL Satan uses to make us become involved and attractive to someone else, who may also be going through emotional needs.

2. Never become 'emotionally available' to someone of the opposite sex.

Talking about personal things and thinking you are helping them and wanting to help them creates unforeseen complications… You become their 'drawing point' where they keep going and you keep giving, until you can't anymore, and you either end up on anti-dep yourself or have feelings of suicide because you end up NEEDING TO BE NEEDED (as I ended up).

I became dependant on the OM because of the above two things... I am trying to break free. The pull is strong. Very Strong. I depend on God.<hr /></blockquote>Kaz, what you’ve posted is SO true. You’ve indeed learned very valuable lessons, especially regarding opposite sex friendships. It was the same with me. I was just very lucky in the sense that the friendship stopped while it was still in the beginning stage of an EA and before it developed to anything physical. OM was much older than me (15 years). Before the friendship developed to EA and before there was any inappropriate feelings, he unconsciously filled the gap of a “father figure” because of unresolved childhood issues. The other difference between your situation and mine is that both me and OM became dependant on each other for the need to be needed. I agree that this pull is very, very strong and that dependence and obedience to God is the only way to break free from these things.

Suzet

[ June 09, 2004, 02:26 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]

[ July 28, 2004, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

It sounds like you two are on a good path. I encourage your H to read here - even if he doesn't want to post - because he will be able to relate to other men.

But I need to be firm on the NC letter to BOTH OM and his wife.

You have a moral obligation to her. Especially, if she doesn't know about the affair. If you don't unload this debt you have, it will likely burden your recovery and weigh you down over time.

In my view, there is no compromise available on this point.

WAT

[ July 28, 2004, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Dear Broken Vessel,

I just want to say, I follow all your posts and I’m so glad you have a wonderful, understanding H – it’s indeed a blessing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You know what, for someone who are so early in recovery you sound so full of wisdom and very “clear headed” about your own situation. Good for you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Broken Vessel, I have been where you are right now (withdrawal and early recovery), so I just want you to know I’m here if you need me. However, I can only post from work and I don't have Internet access all the time. Here in my country it's already 15:15 and in a view minutes time I must knock off from work! Anyway, if you have any questions, please feel free to ask me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Blessings,
Suzet

[ June 09, 2004, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]

[ July 28, 2004, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Dear Kas (Broken Vessel),

You’re welcome and thanks for your interest! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Can you explain more how your situation broke off before it became 'inappropriate'? I wish I had done that.<hr /></blockquote>Actually my friendship with OM became ‘inappropriate’ and developed to beginning stage of EA before it was broken off. Before I explain how the EA was broken off, let me give you a short background first:

I had a difficult childhood (child abuse) and was raised with a father who was emotionally unavailable to me. During the friendship OM unconsciously filled that gap. Since I was 10 years old, my father was involved with another women, and till today, he still regarded her as only a ‘very close, emotional supportive friend’. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I was thus raised with the perception that there is nothing wrong with ‘close opposite sex friendship’ between married people as long as there isn’t any sexual/sensual involvement; verbal expression of feelings towards each other; etc. My own inappropriate involvement and this website was indeed a VERY big eye-opener to me and corrected all the wrong perceptions I had about opposite sex friendships. I learned very big lessons from this.

Anyway, OM and my involvement with him was the ‘catalyst’ that on the end forced me to go into IC and explore & resolve all my issues around childhood. If I look back now, I can really see God’s grace & protection in this whole process. Just after my feelings and involvement towards OM had escalated to a level where I was so anxious and emotionally confused that I couldn’t take it anymore, I went to a counselor and started to explore my childhood issues. A week after this, my H discovered one of OM’s e-mails (d-day) and the inappropriateness of the friendship. Till today, I strongly believe that this happening was the hand of God that brought everything out in the open and protected me & my H from more damaging and further involvement with OM. I started using AntiDeps during this time.

Although I became emotionally and physically more and more attracted to OM during the friendship, fear; anxiety & uncomfortable feelings also increased at the same time… During IC my counselor said that I must acknowledge the positive side of these instinctive reactions - that I must view it as a ‘blessing and protection from God’ to protect me against my own weaknesses and against any other man who might have bad intentions. If I think back now, I can see the truth in it: I remember while I was in the midst of my involvement with OM, how this anxious and uncomfortable feelings at the same time protected me and held me back from further involvement into a serious EA and/or PA with OM. Although 'moral code' and conscience plays a big role in these things, I think many of it also have to do with my experiences as a child - I think my deep-settled fear of “sexually being abused again” also prevented me from letting the EA developed into something more serious and a physical involvement.

After my H discovered the e-mail on D-day, I tried to keep the friendship on appropriate level with OM, but he couldn’t accept my boundaries and OM ended the friendship 6 months later. After this I sank into major depression again and went back for IC and medication (I’m using a AntiDep chronically now, since depression is genetically a problem in my family). After a view months OM tried to restart the friendship, but by this time I’ve already discovered MB and have decided to have NC with OM.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Is it hard for you as you still work at the same place?<hr /></blockquote>Kas, it was extremely difficult in the beginning after the EA was ended, but I’m recovered from most of those issues now. The anxiety I’ve experienced when I accidentally bumped into OM was MAJOR (almost like a phobia) and very difficult to deal with. If I accidentally see OM now, I still feel uncomfortable and have some anxious feelings, but I have learned to deal with it and these feelings is only on an average level now. I experience these feelings does get better with time and I’m very glad for that! The other problem I’ve experienced is that accidental contact with an OP holds back recovery and makes it difficult to get through withdrawal and shaking off residual feelings. I believe that is why it took me so long to get though withdrawal (18 months in total), but luckily those issues are also something off the past now. Although I have not reached the ideal state of indifference towards OM yet, I don’t miss his friendship or wondering how he is doing anymore.

Sorry so long. I’m going to read your new thread right now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Blessings,
Suzet

[ June 10, 2004, 03:47 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]

Suzet,
You've been very helpful to me as I can see some similaritites in our situations. I agree 100% about not letting yourself open up to someone of the opposite sex...the problem was that I felt safe doing that because i didn't think he was "after" anything with me. If he had made inappropriate comments, the red flags would have been raised and I would have run int the opoosite direction as fast as I could.
Also, it's reassuring to know that you can be in such close proximity with OM and still "get over" it. There is SOOO much opportunity for us to run into each other accidentally, and it's a constant reminder that I'm finding hard to deal with. Part of the problem is that the first time we had contact after the affair ended, he said "At least this way (driving by so frequently) I get to see you sometimes." So while I know that he HAS to drive by (he farms his father's land...we live between him and his father) I also am always wondering if he is maybe enjoying having to do that, because of what he said. He recently put up fence to put cattle there so now he has to go by every single day to feed them or whatever. I want to be able to go out and dowhatever without worrying about running into him...my tendency has been to "hide" and I don't like it, but I don't quite trust myself yet and I also don't want to give him the satisfaction of seeing me, if that's what he is getting!
Anyway, if you have any advice for dealing with this type of situation, I'd appreciate it very much!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I agree 100% about not letting yourself open up to someone of the opposite sex...the problem was that I felt safe doing that because i didn't think he was "after" anything with me. If he had made inappropriate comments, the red flags would have been raised and I would have run in the opposite direction as fast as I could.<hr /></blockquote>Onlywords, I also felt safe (too safe) during my friendship with OM and didn’t think he was “after” anything with me either. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> The moment I’ve realized that my feelings went deeper than just “friendship”, it was a very big shock to me. However, at that stage I was emotionally so attached to OM and “foggy” in my thinking that I wasn’t paying attention to OMs inappropriate comments and laughed it off as “jokes” and nothing serious…how naieve!

Onlywords, the difference in our situations as far as contact with the OM is concerned, is that there is a chance that you might see OM EVERY DAY, but with me it only happen once in a while… Some times months went by before I bump into him, and some times it happen a few times a week, but at least it doesn’t happen every day. I can ‘hear’ and see this is a big problem to you and I know how difficult it is to deal with this. Here follows some suggestions:

1. First it might help if you send OM a short NC-letter stating that the A was wrong and hurtful to you H; that you love your H; wants to work on your M and don’t want to have any further contact or friendship with him at all. You can ask him not to try to contact you and if you accidentally bump into him, he must ignore you and just pass by. Your H must approve the letter before you send it and it must be signed by both of you. I’ve written a similar letter to OM and it really helped. You will still experience uncomfortable feelings etc. but the letter will give you some reassurance.

2. If you accidentally bump or see OM, try to act normal and just ignore him like you would if he was a total stranger… Don’t greet him or pay any attention. I know it’s not easy to ‘hide’ feelings, but for your own sake and your M’s sake, you have to do it. Don’t trust your feelings and instincts right now… Don’t give OM any chance to re-connect with you. Keep the 'door' closed.

3. I understand you don’t like your tendency to ‘hide’, but if it means avoiding contact with OM (especially now while you’re in withdrawal and early recovery) then it's a good thing. I’ve also doing the same thing in the beginning (avoid going out of the office or going to places where I might bump into OM) but as I have given myself some time and patience to heal, I have experienced those tendency to ‘hide’ does become better. But right now, with your situation, you need to ‘avoid’ OM to protect yourself and your H. Especially since you feel so vulnerable. Try to avoid those places where you might bump into him during a specific time of the day etc. Later, when you’re further in recovery and not in withdrawal anymore, you will be better able to handle those situations.

4. Try to share those feelings of discomfort, fear of bumping into OM etc. with your H and get it out. It will strengthen the bond between the two of you and give you some relief from those feelings.

I hope my post can be of some help to you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

[ June 10, 2004, 05:53 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Broken Vessell:
The matter of his wife knowing, has been taken out of my hands by a higher authority. I can say no more. It is not a deliberate choice by me.<hr /></blockquote>Baloney. Give us a break!

Who is this wife, Royalty whom you can't contact?

Sorry, I don't believe you.

You had the "authority" to conduct an affair with her husband, yet somebody else has the authority to tell her?

I suppose we're using the wrong terminology here.

Many people have the authority to tell her - any of her true friends.

You and her husband have the responsibility.

WAT

broken vessel....your story sounds a lot like mine. I'm a 42 year old FWW who was involved with co-worker who is 53. Started out as friendship and turned into EA/PA very quickly. The comment made about avoiding close opposite sex friendships is so true. You become quickly attached to the OP before you even know it. I was involved with OM for about 1 year before we mutually ended things. It has been a long year of recovery. I too have a wonderful and supportive H. I understand what you're going through and wish you the best!!

[ July 28, 2004, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

:::: became dependant on the OM because of the above two things... I am trying to break free. The pull is strong. Very Strong. I depend on God.

Kaz, I'm a BS (wife). I am a very strong person when it comes to faithfulness - I could never have had an A, and I am certain of that. Reasons are probably not very nobel though. I think my reasons for not wanting an A are purely selfish - so I won't take the high moral - I think I'm too strong to need another person in that way.

Just wanted to say hello and welcome. You sound a real sweetie and obviously you are trying very hard to do the right thing. I'm very proud of you. Keep trying. Every day you succeed, is a day closer to feeling good about yourself. If you weaken, you will hate yourself more than you do already. There is nothing for you with the OM. He is an addiction. Once you stop all contact with him, the pain will slowly subside.

I recently had the chance to have a revenge A. The man was just gorgeous and I really felt drawn to him. I refused to get drawn in and I was shocked at how many hours it took me to calm down for not meeting him. I knew it would go away if I just waited it out. What must it be like for you, who've become so much more involved with another man? But the principle is the same. You have to wait it out. It will take time and you must be patient and not weaken. Be strong, because all good things are where you are in your Marriage. It won't be too long before you are loving your H with all your heart and soul and you will be despising the OM. Eventually this will happen and you will be glad of it.

Give youself a chance of happiness. What you have with the OM is nothing but ugliness and hurt.

I hope I've not said anything to make it worse for you. I am sure it's very difficult, but I can see that you are going to make it. Hang in there and look forward to the time that you are helping WW's!

BrokenVessel,

I wrote a reply to you on the other post

Please don't ever feel any pressure to share anything you are not comfortable with sharing. For whatever reason, the wife does not know. I do not get the impression that you are delighting in that fact but rather feel grief over it. I pray that God will give you wisdom as to how you should handle that and what you should do if anything. That is a difficult situation that I am sure weighs heavily on your heart, knowing that she does not know. I would encourage you to pray about it and pray that God would reveal the truth of the affair to her in some way and in His time.

May God be near you and continue to see you through this. Continue to have a humble, contrite heart of repentance while accepting His forgiveness at the same time.

[ July 11, 2004, 01:15 AM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]

[ July 28, 2004, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

[ July 11, 2004, 01:16 AM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]

[ July 28, 2004, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

BrokenVessel,

I'm not sure if you'll read this but I'm glad I was able to encourage you. I don't know that anyone could tell you exactly what you should or shouldn't do re: his wife. I think she should know, but I also know that God is more than capable of "exposing" it in ways that include things like His perfect timing. And it might not be that it comes through you. There's alot of unseens (how will she react? will she try to harm you? is she strong enough to hear it now? will she receive it better hearing it from someone else? etc) and so I pray God gives you wisdom. I know that must be a tough situation, and my heart goes out to you and to her as well.

oops!
wrong thread.
Miss M

[ June 12, 2004, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: Miss M ]

[ July 28, 2004, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]