I initially posted over on D/D this evening because that's where I "officially" belong, since I've filed for DV. But I think I need all the advice and most likely 2x4's that I can get for my major ugly outburst tonight.

It's amazing how tiny little things sometimes are the worst. What's the issue? STBXH changed his cell # and failed to inform me. I found out by accident, because I left both he and OW a message asking to have him call his father (my FIL actually called ME today to find out if his own son was still among the living).

OW called me to ask what # I was leaving messages on for STBXH. That's when I found out he has a new "secret" number. He called me earlier today from the phone at the shop where he works--I thought that was odd. But he said his cell was on the fritz and that he wasn't getting voice messages on a timely basis.

Big FREAKIN' LIER! He didn't have the b*lls to tell me that he changed his number. And why? Not sure. OW says it's because he can't stand to hear my voice. Uh...I don't call him. He calls me. I do send a few texts, but they are not threatening or angry unless he provokes me first.

Okay, now I'm REALLY provoked! Why would a dad refuse to give his phone number to the mother of his children? OW says to me, "You have a way to get ahold of him. You can call me."

Forget that! I'm done. I flew off the handle at her. Told her if he doesn't have the guts to tell me he changed the number, don't expect me to make this DV an easy process. She claims I haven't already. Uh...how's that? I'm giving him almost everything he asks for, right down to 50% of my 401K.

But now, perhaps not. I called her a bar wh**e. She told me I was a dead f**k in bed. It got much uglier than that. I am very afraid--there is a particular video tape from many years ago that I allowed him to make of us (while under the influence of much wine) because he wanted to. We were getting along great at the time and I thought why not...we're husband and wife. It's just for us.

Well he took that tape with him--found it missing after he moved out. Found out tonight he's shown it to her. I told her that if it ever gets out, I will KILL HIM! She said, "so you want me to pass that along?" Yep!!

She slammed the size of my chest (or lack thereof). I slammed her for being saggy. She accused me of having an A with STBXH's freaky friend from south of here. That thought nearly makes me gag, but apparently they both think something happened down there one night (and have probably passed that assumption around to his family and friends.)

Then I told her, that "equitable" splitting of assets doesn't have to mean 50/50. Told her that I think 60/40 sounds better on the retirement plan, and if he doesn't like it, perhaps he doesn't have to sign the divorce decree. Told her that I WILL have the financing of college written into the decree and again, he can choose whether or not to sign. Told her that perhaps I just won't have the final decree prepared at all--that perhaps I'll just sit on all this. Why do I need to be DV? Why do I need to play nice? It's HIM who wants out, right?

I let very bad words fly. I said awful things about what they do together (and even sicker, she said, "Yes, he does do that with me.") I took the Lord's name in vain a couple times in extreme anger.

I feel very un-Christian. I also know that deep down I still love this man who I am making all the threats against, and that now with these horrific LB's that will be even more spun out of proportion by OW, I have blown not only all chances for any future reconciliation should he pull his head out of the dark place, but I have blown away the chance of anything civil.

I am SO hurting <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> and SO angry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> and just SO wanting to talk to STBXH personally right now. But I can't. I don't have his #. I only have OW's!

And to top it all off, I'm now letting what OW said really eat at me because I know that if she's slamming my appearance, it's stuff she's talked about with STBXH. And it's crushing to know he and OW watched a tape of him and me because I'm sure they sat there and laughed and mocked me, and now I feel like 19 years of marriage were a lie.

I've always been extremely self-conscious, and when I'd ask him if I was attractive, he'd say yes, that he was fine with the way I looked. But our SF was becoming more and more infrequent, and now I believe it was because he didn't find me attractive and it was all a bunch of lies.

And if my H of 19 years was sickened by me, so much so that he showed OW a very private tape of us most likely to prove his point to her, no man in his right mind will ever want me.

To h*ll with trying to look sexy. It can't be done. There is no base to work with here. I need to face the facts and stop spending so much $ on my hair, my nails, and my clothes. Better to just face that I'm repulsive and go to Walmart, buy the clearance stuff, and spend the $ on charity and on my son's college. Who would care, or notice?

LL

<small>[ November 08, 2004, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

lordslady,

It’s late and there may not be many of us reading the board right now, but I’m up watching the election on TV. I was going to look up Penny Tuppy’s site and maybe switch to posting there, but your post caught my eye and my heart really goes out to you.

You’re STBXH is being an @ss. I’ve seen your picture on faith’s picture page, and you are a very attractive woman. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your appearance.

You’ve been holding in your anger, and he and OW got on your last nerve. It’s understandable that you couldn’t hold it in any longer.

I wonder if it would be helpful to you only to communicate with your STBXH through your attorney? That way you wouldn’t have to hear his and OW’s cr@p anymore.

God bless,

Rose

lordslady, I second the opinion of Rose55, you are a very attractive woman. Quit worrying about your appearance I think you look great.
As far as you STBXH, he is acting like a complete jerk. I have followed your story on and off for 4 months. What can you expect from a addictive person like that. They do not act with notion of civility. The tape would bother me too. But there isn't much you can do about it except maybe consult legal advice. I think I would at least check with my lawyer about. Lastly, don't talk to OW, it only causes you pain.

lordslady..

I find it ironic and pathetic...that OP spent so much energy and time attacking you...

people who feel threatened attack...

even though you are guilty of attacking her which does not serve you well...you certainly hold more ownership of the right to do so...

interesting that she spends so much energy on you...


you need to raise the sandbags...and get deeper in the bunker and protect your self from their chaos and verbal spummage....

dont' let them drag you down...
don't you do it

ARK

Dear Lordslady,

I'm sorry you are having a bad time.

Don't think too much about the conversation you had with OW. You hissed, she hissed back, you growled, she growled back, you lashed out, she did the same. Unfortunatelety that's quite normal when people get angry. All your pent-up frustrations and anger exploded, that's all.

And as for your STBXH's opinion of your appearance.. well.. that's just what it is, HIS opinion. I know it's hard because you still love him and it really hurts to know or think these things. But to me it proves just one thing - that he is a totally immature, selfish boy. Why do you "have a way to get a hold of him" ? Because you're the voice of his conscience. He blo*dy well KNOWS he's a selfish idiot, abandoning you and your children like that. He would probably hate you if you had done the same. He would have said you're a bad mother, a sl*t, whatever, if you had left him and the children to live with some toyboy. He might have come over to smash in your windows if he'd know you showed your toyboy that video and made fun of HIS performance...

Dear LL, please find a way back to yourself and the things that are important to you, like your children. Your hobbies. Your personal interests. You must start taking back all the energy you are putting into this sordid situation, and as suggested, have your lawyer do the talking.

I have a friend in hospital now with heart problems because of all the stress her divorce caused her. Please don't let it get to you like that - surround yourself with good friends, family and fun things to do.

(((((Lordslady)))))

Hi, lordslady.

So you had a good mad and told the other woman what side of the bed she really gets up on. Big deal. I am very glad that God has a lot of patience with us, otherwise, no one would be left on the planet.

Consider this. Your husband still has feelings for you. Why else would he try to say and do things to hurt you. The other woman is making all kinds of demands in his handling of you. Regardless of if you two reconcile or not, I will bet real money that his allowing the viewing of the 'tape' is going to stick hard in the pit of his guilt. I would be very surprised if it doesn't cause him to become impotent with the other woman.

What they did together love busted the hell out of their relationship.

I have read a lot of what you have written here and I have come to respect you. My wife and I have looked at all the photos that Faith1 has posted. You are a fine looking woman! Furthermore, if you were adventurous enough to tape some bedroom play with your husband, then I am positive that there are some fine guys out there that will consider you the find of the century should the divorce go through.

Either way, you are going to be okay. In the real world, women like you are a real find.

All the best,
Gimble

Crash & Burn - Take #2
(Alternate title: How NOT to Save a Marriage)

BEFORE I read all your wonderful advice (which I just now did) about staying away and not letting them drag me down....

Had to have STBXH sign a check on way to work. My old escrow refund--made out to both of us. Stopped by his shop. That didn't go well. He claimed he didn't change his # because of me and claimed OW must have watched tape on her own, that he didn't offer it to her. Lot's of hurtful words, threats, left angry at him and at myself because my temper was spiraling out of control.

Headed for...you guessed it...the "love nest". When I got there, OW was on the phone. I'm sure he called to warn her.

Long story--I asked for tape, she claimed to not know it's whereabouts but said he put it in for her months ago to watch so she could see him when he was thinner. Whatever. More ugly words. More jabs. More taking the Lords name in vain. The little girl was at her feet crying. I was over the top. I turned to OW and muttered, "Can you shut the little b**ch up?"

She, in what was probably righteous anger at that point, came at me and shoved me and I think came very close to hitting me.

I deserved it. The child is precious. She is not a little b**ch. It's sad that she lives in that environment, and sadder that she had to witness what I brought down there today.

But instead of giving up, I was really ticked now. All the anger from the last year came flowing out and I refused to leave until I got that tape.

OW called the police. Explained that she wanted me gone. I explained that I wanted the tape and that, oh by the way, I wanted to file assault charges on OW for shoving me.

Charges have been filed. STBXH showed up at apartment during this time, got the tape (the only good thing to come out of this--it's now in MY possession and will be destroyed momentarily) and told me I'd better cool my jets.

This is BEFORE he got the whole story about the assault charges and all, which I'm sure he got after the cop had me leave.

I want to die. I should burn in Hell for what I did. I am no example of a Christian at all. I am no better than STBXH and OW. Where was my love, my patience, my BRAIN!?

Now I just hurt, and feel stupid, and know I blew up everything that might have ever been.

And when OW and I were slamming each other's physical appearances again today, I even brought my daughter into it. Told OW that my daughter says OW lets her flabby belly hang out with that navel ring all the time. (It's true--but now it will cause issues between my daughter and OW, and that's SO not right of me to put my teenager in the middle.)

This is who STBXH left. This is my anger out of control. I wanted SO bad on the way home to just crank up my supercharged car and smash it into something. I hate me right now. But I didn't. I know better. I wanted to hurt myself, to punish me for all my stupidity, for hurting people who, even though they did wrong, didn't deserve to be hurt like I hurt them today.

My tongue is wicked. BAD wicked. I hate that about myself. But it's really, really hard to stop it once it gets going, until I've spewed all the anger and hurt out.

So now I feel lousy. I'm home from work...called in and said not coming in until headache subsides. I'll probably never hear from STBXH again, which I'm sure is for the best, but painful never-the-less.

And I'll know that my final memories left with him are ugly hateful ones that justify in his mind why he left me in the first place.

LL

Wow- I am so sorry for what you went through today. The OP is just as at fault as you are in what happened. No name calling and shoving are not an adult way to solve something, but sometimes when you see red that is about all that one can do. In front of the other kid was a little over the top however- how old is she?-the kid I mean...? Is she your H's (sorry new to your story).

Your H should HAVE NEVER shown that tape to anyone period. He was wrong. When the two of you seperated it should have been distroyed. Oh well can not change that now.

Stay strong. You H has screwed everything up. This is not your fault. You will find peace and happiness again soon.

Take care

The child isn't my STBXH's. She belongs to the guy that OW is technically still married to, but hasn't been with in over a year. She will be 2 in January.

She is actually a precious little girl, cute as a bug. I truly am sorry about cursing and getting angry in front of her. I think she sees and hears a lot of this between OW and STBXH. In months past, when OW was running errands and STBXH would call me while babysitting, he'd get frustrated with the child and use the "f" word on her and such.

I always felt so bad about the environment that I believe she lives in with STBXH's drinking and all, and yet here I went and created something just about as ugly.

LL

lordslady,

You are acting in ways that are not really your character--right? You feel like you've been hit in the stomach or are about to throw up--right? That is because you are not being who you really ARE!! You are not a screaming banchee of a woman, nor are you violent or provocative.

So my suggestion to you would be:

1) Take some time out. Put yourself in the corner and take a "Time Out". Have some quiet time; do the things that have worked before to calm yourself and soothe yourself; and think about what happened and how it happened and how you're going to proceed from here.

2) Forgive yourself. Sometimes it happens that when our STBX does something like changing the locks or cutting off a phone or a credit card, that we react in a way that is out of our character. You didn't react well. Your STBX did something that hurt you, and you responded in a way that is not pretty. But it happens, LL. You're only human, and a trigger was pushed, and you just didn't do a good job. Take personal responsibility for your issues and clean up your side of the street. Okay?? It's not the end of the world, but it wasn't necessarily a real healthy response.

3) Your STBX and his OW are yanking your chain and you are falling for it. What would have happened in this instance if he had changed his cell phone and you had responded via certified mail, "Since I can no longer contact STBX via phone, I will be using my lawyer and/or certified mail. It is not acceptable to negotiate our divorce through the OW, so I will use other means to settle it between YOU and ME."

For EVERYTHING that your STBX and OW do, take a moment to stop and ask yourself, "Is this a trap?" because they are trying to trap you into responding to their manipulations by acting badly...so that they can say, "See?? YOU are the crazy one, not us!" So ask yourself, "Are they trying to hook me in?" If the answer is "yes" then take time to consider reacting the way that YOU want to react, not reacting the way that they think you're going to react.

Here's an example. My exH went before the judge and told the judge that I had destroyed our business and never really contributed. Remember...this was RIGHT IN COURT!! At first, I wanted to react in RAGE and scream "*I* destroyed the business!! I'm not the one that abandoned it!! I'm not the one that made all the customers angry by promising to come and then blowing them off!!!" But then I realized that my exH was trying to suck me in!! If I had responded that way in court, then he would have been able to say, "See how she is judge? She's the one with the anger issues, not me."

So instead, I asked for a quick bathroom break. I went in the bathroom just FURIOUS but took some deep breaths and calmed myself and THOUGHT! How can I respond in a way that expresses my side without falling into his trap?? I decided to go back to court, and I said, "That may be YOUR opinion, but my opinion differs greatly. It is my opinion that I was the one who stayed with the business while exH abandoned it. It is my opinion that I contributed greatly to the success of the business by doing XYZ. My opinion is very, very different from his."

TA DA!! I didn't fall into the trap, but I did voice my side appropriately. My exH will NEVER, EVER see my side of this issue. To this day, he does not see my contributions as valuable. But my point here is to just stop yourself for a second and ask, "Is this a trap so they can justify their own behavior??"

Take a break LL and give yourself one. We love ya anyway, even though you're an erotic film star.


<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />


CJ

Ever hear of Plan B? I'm in the midst of a smelly nasty D and still Plan Bing for precisely this reason. He can't fault me with anything I've said. My last words were loving.

I've been betrayed by so many friends that I can't count. I'm Plan Bing them, too. Had a funny dream last night where I told them how I felt. They didn't talk back. That's why it's a dream.

I have revenge fantasies about my former friends, not to mention revenge fantasies about OW & him. What's the point? Getting into the mud with everyone and slinging? What would I "win"?

I need better friends. That's what I keep reminding myself. Move to higher ground. Even if it means (in a small community) large portions of time by myself -- I will not compromise. I will find a better world. Leave these folks behind. They all deserve each other. I deserve better.

All the fanny-tucks in the world aren't the answer. Suppose you are a slag heap with sagging breasts (oh no, wait a minute -- OW's the one with sagging breasts) -- is that what life is about? Eventually, we are all going to have sagging breasts or whatever -- we will all get old and face our death alone.

What are your ultimate values? Try to find out. With better people. Let go of this soap opera -- let them have it.

Famous line from Chinatown: "Oh, I never get nasty, Mr. Geddes. My lawyer does." Let your lawyer do the dirty work.

CJ,

Always around to make me feel a wee bet better. I'm grateful.

You feel like you've been hit in the stomach or are about to throw up--right?

Actually, I feel like I don't care to live (though as luck would have it, I still continue to breathe) and asking myself just what makes me think I'm a Christian when I act like that.

What would have happened in this instance if he had changed his cell phone and you had responded via certified mail,

Why don't I ever think of those things? Why do I lash out instead? Actually, communicating at $200/hour thru an attorney is cost-prohibitive. However, certified mail (even when you throw in a return reciept request) is pretty darned cheap. Where I work, there is a post office branch on the lower level, so it would take me 10 minutes to send my communication certified. I'm going to ponder that idea. I rather like it.

A.M.,

He can't fault me with anything I've said. My last words were loving

That's the problem. If I Plan-B right now, my last words were filing assault charges on the OW and telling my STBXH that I wanted to die. Not the lasting memory I'd like to leave him with.

I've done SO good since, well, really last spring. There have been very few blow ups, and they've been short lived and primarily in the form of text messages. This is the first major knock-down, drag-out that we've had in 6 months.

I know in my mind I can't take it back. I don't know what I can do to fix it and at least let him know that I lashed out because I'm angry at the lies and the manipulation, not because I hate him.

And as for that erotic film career that you guys mentioned, the proof has been destroyed so that it won't fall into the wrong hands again.

LL

Hi Double L,

I usually don't post on this forum, but your post really touched me. No, you should not have reacted with anger, but you did, thereby proving that you are human like everyone else.

However, your expressions of remorse show that you really do have a good heart. I do agree that it would be best for you to communicate only in writing via certified mail so that you can carefully think about what you are going to say. Also, you might put in your letters that if you don't receive a response by a certain date, at least a week from the date he receives the letter, you are going to do X. That way, your H has plenty of notice of your intentions.

One more thing to consider is this: Respond, don't react. Think about what you are going to do and never follow your first instinct. Before you say or do something, try to objectively consider the probable result of what you are doing. It is inconvenient for you to not have your H's cell number, but that is really his choice. It is likely that you are going to have less and less information about him as the divorce proceeds.

As to his father, I would suggest that you gently tell him that you are sorry that his son has not called him, but his son is no longer living with you. Then you could give him all the contact info that you have and wish him luck in his efforts.

And just for the record, I have to remind myself of this quite frequently... Respond, don't react.

Cost of communicating through an attorney is indeed prohibitive -- but so is tailspinning into a week of reaction at the latest outrage. I work for myself, so I have to calculate how much time is lost when I am emotionally drained and upset because of what "they" have done. I need to move into the next phase of my life, and I need to be able to think clearly to do it. I need a wall between me and these events -- a costly wall, I know, and I can't afford it, either.

As for last words...How about a letter of apology? Even maybe to the little girl with a present? (Send the present a day later, so they will know it is not an anthrax present.) It can be carefully phrased so that you don't take all the blame on yourself. (Maybe something like, "Divorce is a highly charged event, but it is never alright to react by anger at a small child, or trading barbs with others, so I apologize for..."). I know, I know, it sticks in your craw. It would stick in mine, too. But it might be a nice way to end this "phase." For YOU. Wind it up and close the door until something better knocks.

Hi Lordslady.....Im just wondering why he took the tape with him, and didnt leave it behind.

My WH and I have a similiar tape and he didnt take it with him when he left.

Just something to think about, maybe he still wants to have some good memories of the intimacy you two shared once.

A/C0810

I think they find it easier to blame others then see the error in their ways.
My husband still blames me for losing his job- Yeah Like I MADE him have an affair with an employee of his. I worked there (2nd job) yes, so did the OP. I quit the same day I found out, did not give a reason, however the GM was a friend of mine and knew my concerns. My H ran in to justify and sank his ship, as I HAD SAID NOTHING. H still does not believe that. Not my fault.

I have done things I am not proud of too. I have experienced the same gut renching desire to slam my car into every phone post I drive by. Inner strength and God will pull you out of this. I am here for you too. I am so sorry for your inner pain and torment. Hang in there

lordslady,

"Actually, I feel like I don't care to live (though as luck would have it, I still continue to breathe) and asking myself just what makes me think I'm a Christian when I act like that."

As Christians, we don't claim to be perfect, just forgiven, right? God forgives you. Take deep breaths. Know that even though everything feels really terrible right now, it will get better.

Take care of yourself. Listen to soothing music, have a cup of hot tea, take a warm bath, take a walk, call a close friend or family member, pray, read some Psalms. Please do not harm yourself.

When things calm down, you will probably get a chance to apologize for what you said to the little girl. Meanwhile, try to relax and regroup.

God bless,

Rose

dble post

<small>[ November 03, 2004, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: Rose55 ]</small>

How to get the anger to stop once it starts??

I thought a lot this afternoon about what I'd done and said. I went out, bought a small gift for the OW's daughter, and wrote a letter to OW and STBXH explaining that I feel I do have the right to be angry, but that how I showed it was wrong. I told them I would be dropping the assault charge because I sort of understand why she shoved me.

I also said that if STBXH wasn't willing to talk with me personally, that short of a life/death situation with his children, I would be running all communication through certified mail, as I would not continue to talk with OW because it keeps the painful wounds open.

I thinked him for looking at my car, and thanked them for giving back the tape.

I then called my daugher, who had my cell phone today, to see where she was. She was ot STBXH's apartment--decided to spend the night.

That hurt because it wasn't planned. I told her I needed my cell phone back before tomorrow night and asked if I could drop some stuff by the apartment. OW got on the phone. The answer "no". Told her I wanted to get a letter to them, that I was sorry about some of the things I'd said, and that I also wanted to drop off STBXH's baby album before I got angry again and did something stupid with his baby pictures.

I was informed not to bother, that a restraining order is in progress for both their residence and his shop, and that because of the restraining order, OW will also be discontinuing picking up my daughter from school on M/W/F starting this Friday, since she will also not be allowed on my property. And they've contacted an attorney, so I'm sure the legal bills will skyrocket now. Yay for my credit card.

Big bomb to drop on me. Transportation is a real issue. I pick up my daughter on T/TH and it requires a 2-hour lunch and a lot of fuel to do it. It will be worse once snow is flying because I work downtown, park in a garage, and she goes to an alternative school clear out in the northwest 'burbs.

I already don't get to work until close to 9:30am each morning because of the start time of her school and when I have to drop her off. Now, if I take a 2-hour lunch daily, not only will my gas probably go up by a third which I'm not sure my budget can handle, but I will be working until probably 7:30pm each night to make up my time off work. I'll get home at 8pm at the earliest.

This does not leave much time for me, once I clean up the house after she blows through it and fix myself something to eat, AND it doesn't leave me any quality time to be a mom.

So much for a life. And I have no one to blame for blowing it up but me.
---------------------------------------------

The end of the story, so far: I finally pleaded enough that it was agreed I could ring the doorbell, and someone would take the album from me in exchange for my cell phone.

I cried all the way there. I got out and managed to hand some girl I didn't know the album, the letter, and the baby's gift and apology note (which will no doubt be thrown away or burned, but I did try).

I was handed my cell phone which I proceeded to slam down on the pavement when I got to my car, breaking it into about a dozen pieces. I'm not nearly at my 2 years on my contract, so am now cellphoneless. Nice. Could I possibly be any more stupid?? Could I possibly hate myself any more than I do right now?? (The answer is probably yes, but I'd hate to see what it looked like.)

My head is absolutely pounding. My eyes are slits from crying. I look ugly. The silence is deafening here. I have this overwhelming urge to take all our family photos and cut STBXH's face out of them. I could burn all his teenage loveletters to me that I have in a folder still. Perhaps I should go price phones.

LL

I took some imitrex for my migraine and a xanax (which I rarely take anymore) to calm me down.

Then I went to my local Verizon store. The guy said "Can I help you."

"Oh, probably. I need a new phone. I know I'm nowhere near the end of my 2 years so I have to pay full price, but it doesn't matter. This one is broken."

He asks, "What's wrong with it?" as he tries to turn it on.

"I threw it down on the pavement and blew it into about a dozen pieces..." I reply, matter of factly.

He looks perplexed. We walk over to the desk so he can pull up my contract.

He says, "Do I dare ask why you threw it on the pavement?"

"Well...I was pi**ed at my husband's mistress."

I think the fact that my eyes are about half swollen shut helped. He says, "Would you be okay if we just put you back in another phone like the one you have for no charge?"

Of course I would. I tell him, I was fully expecting to buy a new one at full price.

He swapped out my phone, told me everyone is entitled to a really bad day and that he hoped I didn't have another one like this for a long time. He said, that's why he joined the gym.

Nice guy. Wouldn't have had to do that for me. I thanked him for understanding, added insurance to my phone so that if it breaks again, I only have to pay the deductible, and came home.

How often does that kind of thing happen?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LL

Sometimes when you really need it to.

--Noodle

lordslady,

If I'd known you had xanax, I would have suggested it earlier! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Also, joining the gym is a good idea, too. I just love that cell phone guy.

I'm glad you got to apologize about the little girl.

Hang in there.

God bless,

Rose

The rule of thumb while hunting large predators is..Kill it or leave it the F**K alone.

I really think that this applies in your situation.

You lack the power [well, ok, the willingness] to bring truly crushing consequenses to their lives. Pot shots are so unsatisfying. P*ssing contests that you don't win..ditto.

If I were you LL..I would want away as far and as fast as my little Noodle legs could carry me. I wouldn't even care if they laughed at my retreat. Enjoy the show..buh bye now.

Now for some practical advice.

DD is 15? Old enough to take over nearly completely on the day to day housework. Probably old enough to get from place A to place B on her own as well..is there no public trans in your area? Or a bike? How about a cab..may still be less time and money..something to think about.

DS is 18? Surely he could drive her at least some of the time? He could also be contributing financially to the household as well as domestically. Lean on resources, any and all.

I wouldn't drop that assault charge for anything LL..documentation is a very good friend to have.
OW is making sure to get hers.

--Noodle

Rose,

I'm not sure I got to apologize, but I did try. I wrote a little note to OW and tied it to a bag containing a small baby doll and a Winnie-the-Pooh nightie. I put thought into it. If OW immediately tossed it in the trash (which I suspect was the case), I am sorry for that, but I did try to do something. I put in the note that I in no way expected the OW to tell the girl where it came from. I just wanted to let OW know I was sorry about making the uncalled-for comments about her sweet little girl, and my gift was an apology to mom and just a anonymous gift for baby.

And as for any of you who might be reading this who months ago encouraged me to do a Plan B, and I failed and then didn't try again...

Looks like not by my choice, I am fully in a restraining order-induced Plan B now.

It is very scary for me to think that I may never speak again with the man who shared 23 years of my life, especially given the way we left things today. I did write my apology letter (not the one attached to the baby gift) to both STBXH and OW, but since STBX was still at work, I doubt he ever sees or reads it.

And my daughter is spending the night down there--her first since they moved in together. It's scary for me to have her there, and even scarier knowing I can't get ahold of her.

I just drank a cup of warm milk, hoping that between it and the xanax, I can sleep early tonight, since my daughter isn't home.

The officer scheduled to handle my assault charge against OW just called me. I told him to drop it...that it wasn't worth the fighting to pursue it. No one was injured any more than emotionally.

I have done all I can do. Ball is in their court.

LL

You are far to understanding. I would proabably do the same thing though. Always trying to be the peacemaker. I am really sorry you are going through this.

WHY is your daughter over there? Why are you letting her stay? with your STBX (I doubt by the way) at work? Does she not have school tomorrow?

I suppose I am not helping. You hand in there. THe worst is now over.
Stay strong

Ah, relief. The dust settles.

{{{{{{LL}}}}}}

GC

"How often does that kind of thing happen??"

Well, Double L, it happens as often as God feels that we really need some encouragement. (I am assuming you are a Christian from your name. If I am mistaken, please accept my apologies)

okay LL, i finally get to the end of this post. thoughts and things to say are flying around in my head so i will try to make the best sense i can possibly make. i also want to start off by saying that i am in no way saying that i know what you are going through or that i'm better than you, we are all human and sinners.

so with that being said. you cannot change what has happened, all you can do with God's grace is to change the way you act now. everything that these adulterers do and say is all about them. they are going to use whatever they can to make themselves feel better about what they are doing and use everything can against the BS. again, not saying i'm better then you but that is something i've held onto since i found MB shortly after dday. the fact that i could in no way give my h or the OW, his family or her family any ammunition to use against me and that has guided my actions. as well as the thought that i wanted to be better then them and nowhere sink anywhere to their level (including IL's and OW's family who are supporting what they are doing).

after i found MB and a renewed R w/God i have made it my mission to do things w/grace and dignity. compared to your situation it was probably very easy for me to do this because we don't have kids nor even live in the same state. but i'm talking about things such as notes i've found (even one that suggested killing my dogs because it was an inconvienence to my h when they were going on a trip), i didn't ever tell him i have what i have i just put it in a folder. when i basically figured out in a conversation that he was going on a trip (another one mind you) w/the OW and was going to be introducing the OW to his family. all i did was ask him how he thought this was respectful. i at one time thought that i would fight a D to the day i died no matter how much money it took. i couldn't even stop it due to the no-fault thing but i could slow it down maybe even up to a year. but i decided that it would just make me out to be a bitter woman and again validate my H in doing what he was doing. so i decided not to "fight" it. again, trying to take the high road and be the better person.

i'll relate something that steve harley told me in one of my sessions w/him. we were discussing why my H has not filed for D yet and he's been telling me since may that he was going to file. SH told me that i have removed every reason for my H to act the way that he has. basically i was not giving him any justification and that i was actually making it harder for him to continue what he was doing because of the way that i have been. now i know my H has tried to have my served a couple of weeks ago but because he didn't know my address i didn't receive anything (glad i kept in touch w/my old landlord!). but still that was 5 months after he first said he was going to be filing for a D "soon."

i'll also relate kind of an off the wall example of why we need to remove ourselves from situations that we feel we are vulnerable. i know not every shares the same feelings about alcohol but to me it's still a good example to share. in my faith, we belive that we should not drink alcohol. some people even take it to the extreme and say they cannot even work somewhere if they would be serving or selling alcohol to someone. it is not alcohol that is the problem, it's everything that comes with it. in the new testament there's a situation where some people are in an up roar over whether or not to eat meat that was prepared to serve to idols. well it wasn't the meat that was the problem, it's just meat and because the "gods" that this food was being offered for aren't real it didn't really matter. however, the issue was that if it was a problem for someone (a non-believer or new Christian) to see a Christian/believer eat this meat then it would cause a stumbling block to them. do you get what i'm saying? i mean after all they drank wine in the Bible, even Jesus. But it's the thought (just generalizing here) that certain things go along w/drinking and that it does lower one's inhibitions, hence the best thing to do is to not even put yourself in a vulnerable position by drinking alcohol.

now my point, it is if you know that you cannot control yourself (none of us can without God's help) then don't even put yourself in the position. this goes for all areas of your life but particularly for any interactions w/your H, the OW, etc. like i said i don't pretend to know what you are going through and how difficult this is but this even goes to the heart of the D. by making this (the D) difficult or not easy then you are setting yourself up to be vulnerable even if it's just the way you feel. furthermore, it would cause the WS/OW to act out (become a stumbling block) and as Christians we should not do that. we need to be a blessing to others not a hinderance.

it has been said here before and i'll say it again, that sometimes the best revenge is to live a good life. God wants the best for his children and God has lots of good things waiting for you. and even though we shouldn't have to really concede sometimes that is the best thing to do. we as BS deserve more, deserve better, and should not have to give 50/50 or whatever in cases of D but to we can be the better person and we can do things w/grace that would leave the WS w/better thoughts of us no matter what things have been said and done. that can be your last good actions LL, is to try and make things go more smoothly w/the D. we (BS's) all know that even if the WS/OP get married that only about 5% of them make it. every single one of these WS/OP will have to realize what they have done and have to answer for it. now granted if they don't change in this life then it maybe when they stand before God that this happens. but this is not up to us, the battle is not ours but God's.

i was not the wife that i should have been or the wife that i know God would have wnated me to be. i don't think i was a bad or horrible wife either but i was not a good steward of my marriage and so it was taken away even though i was the one that was faithful. i've realized my shortcomings got back into the Bible and to church and i know that for future R's i will definitely be starting off on a better foot and a lot wiser praise be to God. i do not want a divorce and i refuse to be the one to file because that's exactly what my H wants me to do because that would make it easier on him (for his guilt). but i'm not going to fight it. that's not even to say i would never file either. the Bible is clear on what grounds there are for divorce and adultery is the one and only. my concern was that i wanted to make sure i gave God enough time to work a miracle. but since my H will be filing or having me served that is taken out of my hands. i had decided already that i was going to give my H until 1/1/05 to file and if he hadn't i was going to. but my H himself said it would be easier if we could just sit down and go over things and decide who takes what bill, etc. well i told him in all kindness that it would be easier for him.

since there is no way to stop a divorce for me once it is filed i kind of thought that was a sign from God that is what was needed to happen. that's not to say that people don't reconcile after a divorce happens but God has enabled me to have some peace and reflection and now i've pretty much decided i don't want that because i just don't think i would really ever be able to fully trust him again plus all the other obstacles we would have to overcome. not to say that it would be impossible because God can do anything but it's just again to say that God wants the best for his children and now i'm thinking that my H is not the best for me.

you are totally justified in your anger, heck even Jesus got angry and turned over the tables in the temple. but it's how we deal w/the anger or act upon it that matters. so LL consider the cliche about what would Jesus do? always keep that at the fore front of your mind. i don't remember you ever saying that you were in counseling or had tried. i know about the cost of everything that's why i had to stop counseling w/SH because my lawyer charged $200 an hour and something had to give but if you can afford it, try to find a Christian counselor and get into counseling. if you go to family.org which is Dr. James Dobson's focus on the family website there is a section there that will help you find a counselor in your area.

well i better stop typing you are more than welcome to email me at chewey75@hotmail.com and talk some more off the forums. i just want to add one more thing in that i saw your picture as well on the MB photo album and you are gorgeous! what are you talking about? i would have not said anything if i really did not think that way. we all BS lose self-esteem and a sense of our own identity, in fact it pretty much plummits into a pit. but it will get better. i never thought i was ever going to find someone that thought i was attractive even though i've lost almost 50lbs since dday but i know there are some people who do find me attractive and i'll just leave it at that. it will come back to you in time, your H found you attractive at one time. whenever the WS says they don't love us anymore i just kind of smile now because of something that SH told me, he said well the WS didn't love us before they met us either. now granted we do change over time and we may not look the same as we did when we got M. i still weigh about 25lbs more than i did when i got M. but i think you get my point.

hope you stayed w/this to the end and please know you are in our thoughts and continued prayers, God Bless, RR

{{{{{LL}}}}

I am so sorry that you got in to such an ugly situation. Whatever done is done, you need to get away from something like that hruting you so much. Please treat yourself nicely and start healing. I see that you have a lot of anger. I do too, but I try to let out differently. I will treat myself with trips and enjoy my life.

I saw your picture too. You look so attractive. You even don't have the problem that bothers many people, weight. That is a gift from GOD. Look, I am older than you are, my kids are younger, I am minority, but I never worried that whether I can be attractive to someone else. I know that GOD created me, he loves me, than he will send someone to me. It will just take time for me to adjust to new things. You will too.

{{{{LL}}}

Noodle,

Your "rule of thumb" is right on the mark in my situation. They are very large and dangerous predators, and I do lack the ability or the willingness to inflict any kind of serious damage. Backing away quickly is no doubt the best plan at this point.

is there no public trans in your area? Unfortunately, no. I live in the 'burbs where the only way to get a bus to come get you is to call and arrange a special pickup. Not even sure they'd pick up from one suburb and take one to another suburb without somehow having to connect through the city's bus system. Cabs--same problem. Her alternative school is out on the edge of the city, surrounded by farmland and industrial businesses. A good thing, because it prevents a desire to skip school and go hang out at the mall or whatever, but bad for transportation.

DS is 18? Surely he could drive her at least some of the time?

He can between December 15th and January 15th, and again after mid-May, but other than that, he's 2 hours away in college. (Although I'll keep the Dec/Jan idea in mind--forgot he'd be home for a month until just now.)

KMEJ,

Why are you letting her stay? with your STBX

Not my choice--scares me. But OW (who doesn't work) was supposed to take her to school this morning, and I don't feel like I can keep her from seeing her father if she wants to. She does spend very little time with him, though I worry that if she starts staying over where there are no rules, she may eventually want to go live there. That'd cause another BIG fight.

IsIt2Late,

Yes, I am a Christian. That's what the name means. (Although I am very ashamed of my actions yesterday--one would have had a hard time seeing my faith through them. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> )

RR,

Condensing your post to me--you are right. I need to act with grace and dignity that is fitting for my faith and not give my STBXH ammunition for what he is doing.

I fell very short of that yesterday. I am trying get back on my feet, dust myself off, and do better going forward.

The restraining order STBXH/OW filed, which I will no doubt hear from the courts on very soon may be a blessing in disguise. Although it hurts me that they would feel the need to do that, it will force me to keep my distance and not let my emotions get the best of me while around them.

LNH,

SO good to hear from you! You are doing so much better now. I know you're going to do fine whatever happens. I knew along you were a strong woman. It's showing now.

As for the pic of me, you are right--weight isn't a problem. But with weight often comes a feminine shape. I don't have that either, and it seems to be very important to men.

However, I need to hold on to my faith, and remember that if God wants me to have someone else in my life, he will being me someone who will accept the way I look.

I just have always been very self-conscious of my looks, and especially my figure, and hearing what I heard from OW hit some very sensitive spots because I figured it came through STBXH's conversations with her.

Thanks all of you for your concern and advice!

LL

I've missed you and I'm so sorry it's been so sucky for you lately.

((((((((LL))))))))))))

If it's any consolation, I've seen your pic and you are too cute for color TV.....

{{{{LL}}}} we are all entitled to our little breakdowns,i think ow is trying to bait you, and being human you respond to her in kind.i dont know about ow, she sounds really trashy to me but you are a real lady and very attractive.i dont think i would have dropped the assault charges, this sounds like its going to be one nasty divorce. restraining order? well at least you wont have to deal with these 2 individuals anymore who cause you so much pain.i hope that things get better for you.

(((((((LL)))))))

Please consider alanon - for you.

I have to admit that I am very thankful and grateful to participate in such a wonderful organization when I read your posts. One of the greatest fruits is to detatch with LOVE. Dealing with an alcoholic is almost too much for any of us without help.

Blessings,

D.

What I really need is an organization to help me learn to deal with the alcoholic's mistress! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Seriously, WGTT, I know in my mind that Al-Anon would benefit me a lot. Right now, for lack of being able to explain it better--I think I avoid going because if I go, I have to think about the alcoholic. I do better at this point if I don't think about him.

LL

LL,

I was writing to you more over in the DD thread, but as I was reading this one, I had a "well, duh" moment, and wondered why I didn't tell you this part before. I think it was the idea of dealing with him via certified letter that jogged my brain a little....

Anyway, I definitely had a problem with getting angry atmy XH during the separation and divorce and saying things I shouldn't say. I'm a Christian too, and every time it happened, I felt so bad - in large part because, well, what kind of example was it to my (then) WH, when I was hoping he would find his way back to God and doing the right thing?

Problem is, when you're in the middle of these very emotionally charged situations, it can be very hard not to react.

And the complete plan B, no contact, while a good idea, is not always completely practical. Certified letter is one good solution, but I handled it a little differently:

1. Went completely to e-mail for direct contact with him. Talking in person, things come out of the mouth sometimes before they can be stopped. With doing e-mail, I never sent the e-mail right away. I would write it, then walk away for a while. And when the subject was especially emotional, I had one of my Christian friends review the e-mail before I sent it.

2. Back to the Christian friends - I leaned on them A LOT! I ended up making it my policy that in any situation where I had to see him in person, I had at least one of my Christian friends with me. He got very angry about this - talked about he didn't appreciate being subjected to my "protection," and he felt I was doing it because I was insinuating that I needed protection from him.

He never got the fact that they were there to protect me from myself. Christians sometimes forget about using this tool - accountability to each other as Christians. Just the presence of other Christians there helped keep me accountable for my actions. It helped me keep my tongue in check. I care what these people think of me. And yes, I care what God thinks too - but it's easy to forget in the heat of the moment that God is listening to us, even when we wish He wasn't! But the physical presence of other Christians.... hard to just push that out of your mind!

I mainly had to use this several times when he came to the house to pick up some belongings. And once when we were meeting to sign some papers. The advantage of this was it kept me in check, actually helped keep him in check too (because he was also a member of our church the whole time we were married, so these were people he knew as well.) They were never anything but friendly and polite to him, which is I think part of the reason he got so mad about it all. He felt guilty - knew that they knew what he was doing and that it was wrong - but since everyone was nice to him, he had no justification for getting angry, and ended up having to surpress it. He would show up looking for a fight, and be denied it. In fact, one of the times, I stayed in the house, and the people there helping me brought the things to the door for him and helped him carry it out, and I didn't see him, mainly because he brought OW with him and I was afraid even with my friends there I wouldn't stay in control.

I'm assuming you belong to a church. Do you have people there you could ask for help? For me, one of the main people I've had helping out with this is one of our elders and his wife. We believe that helping keep the Christians under his care accountable is one of the duties of the elder, so for me, asking him for help was easy - it's sort of the job he signed up for!

I don't know if any of this helps, but I hope so. Friends, as long as they are the right kind of friends that can act in a Christian manner dealing with your STBX, can be invaluable. And a lot cheaper than a lawyer! You can always show appreciation for their help by a dinner invite, or a small present, or whatever....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What I really need is an organization to help me learn to deal with the alcoholic's mistress!

Seriously, WGTT, I know in my mind that Al-Anon would benefit me a lot. Right now, for lack of being able to explain it better--I think I avoid going because if I go, I have to think about the alcoholic. I do better at this point if I don't think about him.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LL - Actually in alanon the focus is on you, not the alcoholic. Alanon gives you new tools to use so you don't have to go to the "how to deal with mistress school"

You say you don't want to think about him, but with all that has gone on, is that really working?

What your dealing with is insanity. And it's easy to get sucked in as you have demonstrated. What if instead, the alanon concept of detatch with love was used so that when mistress tried to get into your life you simply told her you wouldn't deal with her it was between you and WH just didn't deal with her. Then find other ways to deal with the situation.

Alanon gives you choices. YOUR choices. Years of living with alanon changes your perspective on life. LL, You have put yourself down on so many of the threads. Do you know how many times that is brought up in alanon. That's why they have the steps. For you to discover your many positive qualities that have been hidden or not apparent to you.

Alanon's are solution oritented & are usually very willing to help each other out.... maybe pick up d from school.... etc. Look for solutions .... they are out there.


I know this may sound harsh, but I've been there (which means I've been to hell but that God that I am back. You life will continue to be insane until YOU do something about it!


(((((((((((((((((((LL)))))))))))))))))))))))))

Blessings,A

D.

<small>[ November 06, 2004, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> What I really need is an organization to help me learn to deal with the alcoholic's mistress! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Seriously, WGTT, I know in my mind that Al-Anon would benefit me a lot. Right now, for lack of being able to explain it better--I think I avoid going because if I go, I have to think about the alcoholic. I do better at this point if I don't think about him.

LL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But the trouble is, I get the feeling you never stop thinking about him - and the anger festers and grows about both the addicts in your life and the one they are trying to help become an addict as well. The rage grows and your world revolves around them and the drama.

The trouble with AlAnon is that the program requires that the one addicted to the addict begin to become sober herself. And what would that do to your world of "It's all his/her/their fault"? What would your world be like if you actually acknowledged that you, yourself are choosing this?

It only works when you work it. TWHALTR!

I'm aware none of you may believe this, and it's highly possible that I'm just delusional.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

But, I really don't think that much about OW or STBXH until one of them calls me or sends me a text message or someone asks about them.

The texts should cut way down now since STBXH has a different phone #. I have no intentions of calling OW unless it's a dire emergency.

I've sent my ideas for the final decree to my attorney and spent about a $200 phone call on Friday going over the particulars. It will be in my hands as early as Monday for review and in STBXH's later in the week.

If he chooses to sign it and not contest any part of it, our DV could be final as early as the 16th of this month.

But.....

There seem to be those things that cause me to think about him:

1) My mother--manages to ask me almost daily if I've heard anything from STBXH. I finally had enough today--told her, "Mom, there's supposedly a restraining order in the works. I will not call him. He will not be calling me. Quit asking. Okay?? If miracles happen and we somehow end up back together, don't you think I'd let you know??!" (And the way he currently is, I don't want to be back together.)

2) Daughter--She is having boyfriend issues and twice in the last couple evenings snuck my cell phone out without my permission. She runs up minutes and I fear is going way over my 100/month text message allowance. She has no job so no way to pay me back. She therefore doesn't care because it's not going to hurt her.

I got angry tonight--she was sleeping and I still couldn't find my phone. Dialed the #--could tell it was shut off. So I woke her. She claimed to not know where it was. I got a flashlight and started scanning her room.

She got really angry and yelled at me to go away. I refused until she gave me the phone, which finally appeared.

I gave her a stern lecture about not taking it without my permission and about not using the text feature.

In returen, I was called a B*TCH and she told me she wanted to go live with STBXH and OW. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

It's things like these that trigger the thoughts that eat at me sometimes.
------------------------------------------------

But in reality, my life is for the most part very calm. The things that keep it stirred up have been initiated by STBXH and OW, and by my daughter. When the happy couple isn't taking jabs at me, and when my daughter isn't in one of her hateful, hurtful moods, life is fairly pleasant.
------------------------------------------------

And finally, I don't think Al-Anon or any amount of therapy is going to help me with the poor self-image. I've had that since I was very young. And each time I start thinking that maybe I am indeed okay to look at or to be around, someone tends to remind me differently. So it's easier to just believe the worst, and if someone actually sees a little good in me, then that's a bonus.


LL

<small>[ November 07, 2004, 01:42 AM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

Lordlady -

Please get help for yourself.

Your last post shows exactly what people who have been trying to help you are saying.

No matter what anyone says to you, its "poor me, I'm just butt-ugly, everyone has always said so, so it must be true, I'm just happy to lick the crumbs up off the floor when someone throws them my way."

I've seen your picture, too - my very first thought was "what a lovely-looking woman". But is that all there is? Is your WHOLE sense of self-worth based on what you look like? How much plastic surgery do you think you need before you will feel "good" about yourself. I'm betting you are a candidate who could go on "The Swan" show and still feel rotten about yourself.

Because feeling like you are worth something to the world comes from God. You say you are a Christian, but you won't let God in to love you one tiny little bit. You wallow like a pig in mud in how awful your life is because of H and OW because that's the way you can feel like you have a place in the world - as his victim. Everything that happens to reinforce this makes you feel bad about yourself and drives you further down.

I'm speaking as the daughter of an alcoholic, as the granddaughter of an alcoholic, and as the ex-wife of an alcoholic.

I admire you for trying to get this madness out of your life. I recognize that it is insane and difficult. But your persistant resistance to going to Al-anon against the advice of every other recovered addict/partner of an addict on this board demonstrates that you are still attached to your role as a victim. I see it in your posts - the way you trawled for sympathy with the guy who replaced your mobile phone, the way you posted that exchange on here. I'm being harsh - you won't like reading this, but it's true - part of you revels in the drama.

My own healing started when I realized that I was addicted to drama - it was what I grew up with, what I knew, what was familiar to me, what was normal. Once I realized that, and admitted it, I could start to choose to turn away from drama. Just like an addict has to walk away from the temptation of crack, a drama addict has to choose to walk away from the drama whenever the situation presents itself. You don't "get sucked into it" - you participate in it.

Al-anon will teach you the skills you need to learn to not participate in it. You don't know how because you have not learned how. If you want this to end, you will go to Al-anon where you will learn the skills you need to act differently in these situations. Because the truth is that you will probably have to deal with him for a long time to come, since you have children by him.

Praying for you.
LIR

<small>[ November 07, 2004, 03:17 AM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>

Daughter--She is having boyfriend issues and twice in the last couple evenings snuck my cell phone out without my permission. She runs up minutes and I fear is going way over my 100/month text message allowance. She has no job so no way to pay me back. She therefore doesn't care because it's not going to hurt her.

She doesn't care because she has no consequences.

Take the battery out of your cell phone when you are not using it ... and keep the battery somewhere separate from the phone.



She got really angry and yelled at me to go away. I refused until she gave me the phone, which finally appeared.

She lied to her Mother...

She yelled at her Mother when she got caught in a lie...

and this was her consequence...

"I gave her a stern lecture"

I'm sure she will now respect you after the "stern lecture"... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />


In returen, I was called a B*TCH and she told me she wanted to go live with STBXH and OW. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Did you pack her bags right there and offer to call her a cab?

THAT would have been more impressive!

You swallow disrespect from your entire family ... because????

Pep

I'm just happy to lick the crumbs up off the floor when someone throws them my way."

I can honestly say without a shred of doubt, I have grown. That statement was me a year ago. It's not me now. It it was, I'd still be crawling after my STBXH and hoping he'd call or say something nice. I don't care anymore. I'm happier if he doesn't. (So I actually feel a bit good about me, because I CAN see growth.)

However, let me see if I can explain this in a form that is understandable...

The self-esteem problems go way back. They are probably the reason I ended up (or at least stayed with) STBXH for the 4 years before we got married. We did have fun moments (mostly drunk moments though). They were not wonderful dating years. He repeatedly broke up with me if he needed his freedom to go to a party or whatever, he saw other women several times during out dating years, he stood me up if he felt like it. But I stayed, because I thought no one else would have me and I didn't want to be alone (and of course no matter how selfish he was, I did grow to love him very much).

So, why do I have the self-esteem problem?? You got me?! My parents loved me. My mother was (and still is) very overprotective and an extreme worrier. She can be very verbally abusive (which is where I most likely picked up my ability to be sharp-tongued and hurtful) and she said ugly things when she was angry at my dad or my sis and I. But it was never about how we looked. It was more the, "You are STUPID!" statement.

And while there are many things about me that bother me, I am VERY sure I am NOT stupid.

Okay, so first - Al-Anon. I know in my brain--need to go. But I saw it as more of a support group that uplifts me spirits. So far, in both groups I've attended, it's mainly 2-5 women who bring in a book, read pages from it, talk about their feelings about the pages that were read and how they relate to them and their alcoholic, talk about any Al-Anon business, and take up money.

And then as for the self-esteem, while my STBXH never did anything to build me up and probably did a lot to knock me down, he didn't personally poke fun at my looks. I agree, my face is not ugly. It does look 5 years older than it did last year at this time. DV is hard on a person.

But it's my body, which you guys can't see. Admit it or not, we live in a very looks-oriented society, and men are visual people. They are attracted to looks FIRST, personality second. And if I were a star, the tabloids would have a heyday with me and a supposed eating disorder (which I DON'T have!). I am so thin from the waist up that I truly do look anorexic. My backbones stick out. My ribs show. My arms are puny and thin. (From my waist down, I'm a normal slender but vastly out-of-shape woman.)

All through school I was made fun of for being so thin. I have heard every flat joke on the planet. I could put on 50lbs and they'd all stick below my waist. And all through my marriage, STBXH pointed out busty babes to me on TV, on the street, etc. It DOES matter to a man!

Okay, you all say, I should find happiness within myself and not care what others think. And I should believe God loves me.

I DO believe God loves me! The days where I've screwed up and sinned big time are some of the sickest days for me, because God feels so far away.

And I am becoming more content being alone. I have a very long list of things I want to do around home or things I want to learn how to do and slowly I'm working them into my schedule. I don't sit around at night and pine for a mate on a nightly basis. I don't cry myself to sleep.

But I AM human and I DO want to have a lover, partner, companion, husband again someday. And that's where the whole self-esteem thing comes in. I am afraid no one will have me with all my quirks, probably because I've never been proven differently.

The physical thing is the first hurdle to get past. But then, I am truly an airhead. I am very intelligent, but my mind shoots off 100 different directions all the time. (My guess is that my DD gets her ADHD from me, though I obviously coped well in school.)

I have a very quick temper paired with a sharp tongue.

Okay, and then I can't have an intelligent conversation about anything anymore. I don't keep up on the movies of today, the current plays coming to town, sports, history, or anything. It really doesn't interest me. I watch movies when I get around to it--they may be 3 years old by the time I rent them. I'd rather go out and take pictures of a lake or something than go to a movie. Sure, this is something I could work on. But the sad truth is that I just don't care to. It's not important to me.

I feel like I have so little to offer anyone. And with the ratio of single women over 35 being much higher than single men that same age, my odds are very low of finding a never-married, widowed, or divorced-due-to-wife's-infidelity Christian man who would have me and love me for who I am.

Okay, so the real issue is not my self-esteem, is it. It's my trust in God, that no matter what happens in my life (even if it doesn't include another partner), that it's for my good.

LL

LL, I worry about you, and worry that you may not see the really wonderful things about yourself.

God usually doesn't screw up when He makes a person, does he? I mean, I don't talk to God very much, but it seems to me that He does the perfection thing pretty much... perfectly. And when you look at your own self and you see imperfection, I think of Wayne Dyer's books and the way he talks about sin. Sin is separating yourself from God -- denying that God is right there, ready to be one with you anytime you're up for it.

So I wonder, by being unable to see the perfection in yourself exactly as you are, are you denying God?

So I wonder, by being unable to see the perfection in yourself exactly as you are, are you denying God?

Very good point.

I may not be allowing God to work in me to the fullest.

I'd love to be able to flip a switch and be a person who was totally confident and happy with myself. Just haven't figured out how.

LL

LL-

Why not start by going to alanon to find out?

D.

Dear LL,

it seems you can only see yourself through the eyes of others. Their opinions on how you look, on what you do, on what you think, seem to be so important that there is no "you" left without those opinions.

Please think more about what YOU like. Who cares if you are the only person on this planet who likes it? If it makes you feel good (and isn't harmful to anyone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), do it. Don't wait for approval or applause.

I'd suggest you join some group, self help for ADHD maybe, or a hobby, whatever, to get you out of your "enclosure" and to find out that yes, others will like you. Some won't, and you won't like everyone you meet either, but some will.

If you stay at home you'll not risk any failure, of course. But you'll also stop growing. Please get out there a little to get more than just the (rather foggy and twisted) version of yourself that your H is providing you now.

If you stay at home you'll not risk any failure, of course.

BINGO! I am a perfectionist. Hate failure. It's a good thing (perfectionism, that is--not failure) when used properly, but bad when it's out of control.

-------------------------------------------------
Just J,

Your statement about God not screwing up when he makes someone really sunk in last night as I was making my bi-weekly drive home from returning my son to college. I get 2 hours late at night to think about lots of things as I do these drives home.

And it hit me (no telling if it will stay "stuck" though): God DID make me just like I am. For what reason, I don't know. But if I'm going to believe that God is working for my good, then somehow I have to get to the point where I believe that being who I am is part of that.

So...we'll see where that goes.

But thanks for the comment, Just J.

LL

<small>[ November 08, 2004, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

LL,

First - I saw someone suggesting taking the battery out of your phone when you aren't using it. But there probably is an easier solution than that.

Most cell phones have a "lock" feature you can set up. This feature allows you to put a pin number in the phone, and using the phone requires the pin number to be entered first. Check your phone, and see if that feature isn't on there somewhere, and use it.

As far as the self-esteem thing....

You say you are starting to get very comfortable being by yourself, but then you go on to say that you are normal, want someone in your life, and that you feel you have very little to offer someone, and between that and the fact there are fewer available men than women in your age range means you'll probably have to be alone. You're looking for a way to settle for that.

No, no, no!!!

It's one of those strange things in life.... when you least NEED someone else in your life is when you are MOST attractive to someone else.... at least to any "someone else" you would want to be with!

And what I'm hearing from you now is that you are trying to convince yourself that you've reached that point - you are happy with the person you are, and the problem is that the person you are is someone most guys wouldn't want.

Can't you see - THAT's the problem. As long as you are convinced no one else would be interested in you the way you are, probably no one will be. It can be very exhausting to continually try to convince a person how beautiful and wonderful she is when she is completely convinced that isn't true. And most people figure you are the best judge of your own character. If you are telling everyone (non-verbally!) that you aren't worth bothering with, they are going to assume you know yourself best, believe you, and move on.

And I know it isn't easy to fix that self-image you have. That's why people are suggesting you get help. It isn't a matter of whether or not you have found ways to occupy your time being alone, or if you are doing things you enjoy. Oh, those things are important too... but right now, you are projecting a "hands-off, stay-away, I'm damaged goods" image that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And it can be a very vicious circle. You think "he left me, so I must not be worth being with," and that's the attitude people pick up on. So they back off. And you see that you can't interest anyone, and it re-enforces the opinion that your STBX must have been right. That's why people say you need to become happy with yourself before you look for someone else to share your life with. When you aren't truly happy with yourself, it gets a lot harder to attract someone else. And you have to REALLY believe it. When you say things like you feel you don't really have anything to offer someone else, it shows that you aren't happy with yourself, and you don't consider yourself worthy of being loved by someone else.

Believe me, I know what I'm talking about on this. I definitely fall into the category of someone who does not appeal to a large part of the population. I am fat, plain and simple.

And while things with my X resulted in me having a somewhat low image of myself over the last few years, the me I used to be is quickly coming back to me. And I'm remembering how fun it is to flirt and talk with other guys and such. And how great it is to see that interest.

I even get kind of a perverse pleasure in seeing the struggle some guys have - the ones who are convinced they could never, ever be attracted to someone as fat as I am, and who find themselves trying to convince themselves they AREN'T attracted.... Oh sure, not all. Many truly aren't attracted, and that's ok. But some start really questioning themselves, which is kind of funny. And many out there have just accepted that they either have a preference for women of my build, or that it just doesn't matter.

But little by little it's all coming back to me. The happier I am with myself, and the less I worry that no one will ever be attracted to me, the more I notice guys that are... well, noticing (me, that is!)

At first I did the same thing you did. My X had some really horrible things to say about me. But, in the end, I was able to back up and realize that he was justifying it to himself. That the things he was saying weren't true. Not that I take no responsibility - I know he had needs I wasn't meeting. But I tried - I asked him A LOT to talk to me and tell me what was wrong, and he wouldn't. It's a little hard to meet needs when he wouldn't express what those needs were, I was just supposed to guess.

Eventually, I thought about all the things he'd done to hurt me, and got indignant. How dare he treat me this way? I don't deserve being treated this way - no one does!

And the more that self-confidence has come back, the more I notice how much easier it is for me to connect with other people again these days. I am starting to realize how withdrawn and introverted I had become while I was with him. And the way I acted - not really looking at people much, never really saying much, never smiling.... Why WOULD anyone have wanted to be around me?

I'm not saying that you are doing any of those things. But if you can sit there and talk about why men aren't going to be attracted to you, then that IS the message you are broadcasting to them - that you aren't worth the bother.

I know when I write it always ends up kind of long. Sorry about that. But I nope this makes sense to you, and I hope you will find some help somewhere on this.

Pep,

I totally missed your post on the last page until Penguin mentioned something about removing my cell phone battery and I had no recollection of reading anything like that... Sorry!

As for your comment about my daughter's threat:

Did you pack her bags right there and offer to call her a cab?

No, but I DID ask her if she wanted me to let STBXH and OW know she'd be moving in and asked when she was planning on going.

I actually felt bad about saying that at the time, because it came out very snide and angry. But maybe it was an okay comment to make after all.

In regards to my daughter, when she gets out of control, I'm really not sure how to respond or deal with her. Neither child was taught to respect me. I think the motto of our house was "Lets make fun of Mom and her silly rules!" and sadly enough, STBXH supported most of it, and then got really angry when they wouldn't respect him, and used that as one of his reasons for walking out on his family.

For the most part, my relationship with my daughter has improved since last spring. She is talking to me about her friends, asking my advice, calling more often if she's out and running late. She still doesn't like the word "NO" and she's still very allergic to work, but tiny progress has been made.

I just am not sure how to gain respect from a defiant, ADHD teen who has never been made to respect in the past. DD sees a therapist monthly, but even she hasn't made great gains in this area.

LL

Just keep contemplating the fact that God made you exactly perfect, exactly as you are, lordslady. I'm pretty sure there's something really important in that thought, something that might lead you into a lot of critical understandings about what this is all about.

Blessings on you, too, while you do it, and some of this is going to be a lot of fun for you, I think!

Lordslady
I was so touched by your posts. I too can say hurtful things in anger. My stbx has been repeatedly contacting me when I have repeatedly asked him not to. I finally became angry and left a not so nice voice mail. His attorney had it scribed and sent to my attorney asking that I stop harrassing HIM! The nerve! I let my attorney know the real truth...

I too suffer from low self esteem. I dont' know why. I am smart, not bad looking but have dealt with the issue of a really bad marriage by eating so I'm overweight. I would love for someone to say some part of my body was too thin...a dream I have before death.

My stbx is too an alcoholic. He's tried AA but can stop on the way home to buy a bottle. I finally could take no more when he appeared naked in front of daughter and date. The next day I told him either he could leave, I could get a restraining order or file a criminal charge. He left. A few weeks later I am served divorce papers which I think he only did to scare me..thrilled me instead...

I understand about Al-anon. I got nothing from it. It seemed hokey and a bunch of people whose obsession with the alcoholic was redirected to an obsession about the obsession with the alcoholic. I wanted to hear success stories instead I heard story after story about how the alcoholic affected this or that..how they had to accept that their lives were burdened with their sickness about the alcoholic... I wanted to hear how their lives were blessed, how new relationships were thriving, and how their children were better because of what they had endured.

I have had in my lifetime friends who were near and dear to me who weren't in line for beauty pageants. I've known people who were beyond gorgeous and their obsession to stay that way ruled their lives. And I've had friends who after years I couldn't really tell you one way or the other how to categorize them because when I looked at them I saw their heart.

I recently went back to work full time. At first I was ignored during our training class. I was among the oldest there and most of the people were in their 20's...you add overweight on top of that and one becomes invisible. Anyway, these people soon started paying attention to me. I can be funny-a dry sense of humor funny and I try my best to be kind just as Jesus showed us. Soon these people were kidding with me, walking over to specifically speak to me and it felt good. I was happy. I worked next to a girl who used filthy language that I've never heard a human use before, she came in late, lied, called in sick frequently, gossipped, you get the picture. Everyday we were waiting for her to be fired. Anyway, a man came to my desk and asked to speak to me. He said someone had complained that I had made remarks about my faith and politics. I had made comments about politics because duh there was a presidental election and everyone was talking about it. The only thing I said about my faith was that in the election God blessed us. I asked if it were she and they said no. I found out that it was and I said I couldn't work where I wasn't wanted. I left. The whole place was in an uproar over the ordeal. So here I am at the holidays with no job...

Why am I telling you this..because the boost I received from these people being so kind to me and liking me was deflated by the actions of this one person who I would never have any respect for and would not call my friend. You would never consider someone such as ow your friend but yet as I you let her get you down. I think it goes back to that low self esteem.

A friend of mine said once that she likes to think that God keeps her picture in his bill fold and is so proud that she's His that He shows off her picture to the angels. I liked that sentiment and have kept it with me. No matter what is said or done, no matter what mistakes we make, no matter how we are accused of being something we're not, the fact that God loves us more than we can imagine is more than enough to get us through. What can compare with His good favor..nothing can compare...nothing.

Give yourself a break lordslady. You're precious and you know it. God has His plans for you as He does me.