BS disdain for the term 'Lover'. - Marriage Builders® Forums

I didn't want to threadjack another thread where Ark asked the question on why many WS disdain the term adulterer, with a question of my own: Why do so many BS's disdain the term 'lover' for their 'adulterer' spouse's OP?

Strangely Dr Harley uses the words in some of his infidelity articles including the one titled "What to Do When You (or Your Spouse) Becomes Pregnant with a Lover's Child". So if the good doctor uses it, why should some BS get bent out of shape when a WS or BS uses the much more blunt, and emotional term 'lover'?

I'm not trying to be cute here but if we as BS are willing to use an accurate but emotionally impacting word like 'adulterer' to describe the WS, then why stop with the more euphemistic term OM/OW?

TMCM

[ December 30, 2004, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]

I can't stand the term "lover", so I would feel very comfortable using it to describe the OP my SO is/was/may be cheating with.

I can very easily see myself saying "who was that on the phone, your LOVER?"

Yeah, I like it.

Weaver,

Thanks for your input and I totally understand your queasiness with the term itself. My concern is that when a BS uses emotionally charged terms like 'adulterer' he/she opens the door wide open to DJ [disrespectful judgements] big time.

TMCM

HMM..

The term lover doesn't bother me..although the use of OWs name doesn't make me flinch either and that is a common thing to not be tolerated [so maybe I'm just weird <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ]..but put into another context..I can see how it might apply in a similar fashion.

Adulterer is an accusatory term..no other way it can possibly be received. You may as well call them a thief, or a rapist. It's specific and a criminal offense and can't be taken as anything but an attack. Lover..can go either way. It's an accurate term in either case. I would be more offended at use of the term "girlfriend" in regard to an OW [which many people here do, and it doesn't seem to bother them..go figure <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ] because the title of "girlfriend" suggests legitimacy in the relationship. That person may just as ludicrously be referred to as my husbands wife by the same lack of logic. Which threatens me. Which raises my hackles.

I think the terms that step on our territory are the terms that sour our mouths..and it's as individual as the persons involved. A term such as lover..maybe...probably causes the spouse to feel diminished by default..if they have a lover who isn't you, you have been defrauded, demoted.

Interesting..I'll give it some more thought.

Noodle

Oh, okay.

Well the the term "lover" would be a DJ if it came out of my mouth. I would have to stick with (F)OP or (F)affair partner if it was to be respectful.

But maybe saying lover is less yucky for others.

I use the name "miss wonderbra" (they're fake you know) when describing my ex's OP, or if I am in a really good mood and tyring not to hurt his feelings, I just use her name.

I didn't read the post you brought this over from, so I am probably just babbling incoherently here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

What thread did this come over from?

[perking up with interest]

Noodle

My concern is that when a BS uses emotionally charged terms like 'adulterer' he/she opens the door wide open to DJ [disrespectful judgements] big time.

see I don't see the term adulterer NOTE THE SPELLING. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

though the reaction is emotional often from the WS...I don't see the term itself being lobbied as emotionally charged...and would say that some BS are surprised by the vicious response that word begets...

adulterer is clearly definable...
probably in my old random house sitting right here...

lover...totally subjective in definition....

infact I find the word lover disdainful because of the WS and OP tendency to change definitions....especially of the word love...NOT to say the don't FEEL loving feelings for one another...but it is definitely tainted and twisted...

lover also denotes without question a sexual aspect...and in my opinion...the sex part of an affair..

that's the easiest part of the whole thing...
teenagers get that sex feels good....

ws and op use sex as a weapon and a conquest/imagined contest and all kinds of things it's not supposed to be....

I get that it feeeeels gooood...
but it's lacking a firm foundation...

quite a few on that other website...spending a lot of time in the back seat of a car... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

yeah I think that's how God envisioned people using his gift of human sexuality...and when you can't have the full package of real partner that can NOT really nourish and meet needs 24/7...let's atleast call them lover....

the word lover ...blech...shallow shallow shallow....

ARK,

[ December 30, 2004, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />NOODLE:
Adulterer is an accusatory term..no other way it can possibly be received. You may as well call them a thief, or a rapist. It's specific and a criminal offense and can't be taken as anything but an attack. <hr /></blockquote>They're all descriptions that are objectionably definable without any bias. One who steals is a thief, one who has sexual intercourse without the partnerâ€™s consent is a rapist and one who has sex outside of a marriage is an adulterer. The ones that find the label offensive are thieves, rapists and adulterers. Maybe the term extramarital sexual explorer would be preferable to them....better yet....ESE's...but they're still adulterers.

Binder,

That is my point precisely..there IS no good way to take that term..if it accurate..then your behavior..and by extension your person, is pretty shabby. And you say people don't respond well to it? Huh. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It isn't a DJ to call a thief a thief..but they won't like it.

Now lover on the other hand..has no inherent negative conotations..in fact often the opposite. Which is likely why it affects people differently.

Noodle

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by weaver:

I use the name "miss wonderbra" (they're fake you know) when describing my ex's OP, or if I am in a really good mood and tyring not to hurt his feelings, I just use her name.<hr /></blockquote>LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I use to refer my XWW [first W] OMs as L.O.S.E.R.S [League Of Sexually Energized Rectal Sphincters] <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by noodle:

What thread did this come over from? <hr /></blockquote>It's from emotional affairs...defined

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ark^^

adulterer is clearly definable...
probably in my old random house sitting right here...

lover...totally subjective in definition....<hr /></blockquote>Lover could be a subjective term but not in the context of an affair.

TMCM

AAAAHHHHHHHHH...... Binder says after stating obviously what Noodle obviously had already stated so she could again state the obvious to show Binder that it was obvious.

Back to lurking. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Binder:
AAAAHHHHHHHHH...... Binder says after stating obviously what Noodle obviously had already stated so she could again state the obvious to show Binder that it was obvious.

Back to lurking. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>Have we started hitting tomorrow's bubbly? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Oh..I hadn't realized you weren't already agreeing with me.

'Cause..ya know..It's so obvious <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

[says Noodle..who has no sense of entitlement at all..nope..and who never makes assumptions either <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ]

Noodle

To be honest, I would have preferred that my FWH and the OW would have just said it straight out! They had become lovers! They kept calling themselves "just good friends." Up until the very end, that is what they called themselves. Uggghhh.

I felt for a long time that they had defamed the word "friend." That bothered me so much. Then H would try and tell me that him and I could still "be friends," even after he D'd me ~ and I thought that was horrible! I didn't know what his knew definition of "friend" was. Seemed corrupted.

So, I say "call it like you see it." Don't try and cover it up with niceties.

Personally, since I felt the description of "rutting like animals in heat" was too harsh, I prefer to now refer to them as WS, OP, and the act as SF. I separate it all out.

Spidey

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Spider Slayer:
To be honest, I would have preferred that my FWH and the OW would have just said it straight out! They had become lovers! They kept calling themselves "just good friends." Up until the very end, that is what they called themselves. Uggghhh.

I felt for a long time that they had defamed the word "friend." That bothered me so much. Then H would try and tell me that him and I could still "be friends," even after he D'd me ~ and I thought that was horrible! I didn't know what his knew definition of "friend" was. Seemed corrupted.

So, I say "call it like you see it." Don't try and cover it up with niceties.

Personally, since I felt the description of "rutting like animals in heat" was too harsh, I prefer to now refer to them as WS, OP, and the act as SF. I separate it all out.

Spidey<hr /></blockquote>Of course they were friends, they just 'forgot' to tell you that they were friends 'with benefits'.

Those foggy, crazy lovesick 'friends', don't you just love 'em? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

TMCM

***Why do so many BS's disdain the term 'lover' for their 'adulterer' spouse's OP?***

Because being his lover was supposed to be *my* place. *My* title. And she stole it. Gee, why didn't she just start calling herself "Mrs. Hisname," too?

Mulan

Does it really matter how the WS "feels" about a term. Last time I checked it was society, not me, that defined words. I cannot help the fact that adulterer is defined as a person having sex outside of marriage. I cannot help that most of society deems adultery wrong. I cannot help that WS feel bad at being called adulterers. It's just a word, and that word has a definition placed on it. If that definition matches the person/thing that you are using it on what's the big deal. Again it goes back to the example of thief, if the thief doesn't like to be called that... STOP stealing.

Now of course I'm not saying that while in recovery you should purposely use words that hurt your WS. However I feel that WS had actions and those actions have definitions. If they don't like it don't do it.

Native

If the purpose of ones efforts is to save/rebuild the marriage, then emotionally charged words like 'adulterer' and 'lover' should have no place in the lingo of the BS. There is an old MB saying that still rings true and it is:

'Do you want to be right, or do you want to be married?'

TMCM

I agree, that if trying to save the M these words should probably not be used.

My WH used this term, saying that if an emotional affair is valid, then he would be an adulterer. I feel that this is why he will not even consider what he did was wrong, because to him he would have to then consider himself an adulterer. I don't believe that I used this term to him.
How could I get him to believe in emotional affairs, that then led to a PA, even though we are seperated, if this term is so hard/horrible for him? Is there a nutural ground to go to?

I don't think the OW can be considered his "lover". Is it normal for people to keep their "lover" a secret? To hide it? To deny it? To use the terms such as "good friends", or "just friends". They might have an emotional connection - by secret but why hide it in the light of day?

At one time my H, (not WH big difference) was my "lover". We brought happiness to each other, was not ashamed who knew it. We didn't hide it, that's why we got married. We had children. We enjoyed our family and friends together. We had trust and honesty.

I do think, in my suitation when we started slipping in being "lovers" our M was affected, and we didn't notice it until it was too late. The feeling of having a "lover" is what I miss from him. Otherwise....we would be "just friends"?

[ December 30, 2004, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: allirose89 ]

Gee, my H used to joke around with me and ask, "Are you talking to your lover?" while referring to the OW (I'm the FWW). Also, my sisters used to jokingly refer to my friend as my "lovagirl" (they didn't know about the A; they just knew that she and I were extremely close).

I think that when I first started posting here, I might have referred to her as my ex-lover. I didn't know what other term to use. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

CC

BTW, I'd NEVER refer to her as my "lover" to anyone!!!!!!!!

I'll just be honest and say it. I HATE the OW being called lover. Hate it! About a month after d-day H was posting here and someone on MB gave him the name of a site where I guess WSs can talk. That was when I was still checking his e-mail and came across an e-mail he sent to this MB person. In the e-mail he was asking the MBer for the site because "He was really missing his lover." For some reason I read that e-mail again a few days ago. H forgot to erase it. Both times the word "lover" was a kick to my gut.

Why? Maybe because lover doesn't have a negative connotation. It's romantic. Maybe because the sexual betrayal is harder for me to deal with than the EA part, and lover and sex go together. So it is one more reminder that they had lots of sex. I guess I am where Mulan is. I should have remained his lover, not replaced by someone else. Seeing him put it in writing just showed me that yes, that is what H thought of her as, his lover.

Ark, just curious. What do you mean that the WS and OP use sex as a "weapon and conquest/imagined contest"? Will it help me get over the sexual betrayal to know what you're talking about. Because God knows, I need help in that area. Thanks! CV

WoW! This thread very unexpectedly triggered me! Lover? Adulterer? Big difference to me. A lover is a best friend. One you can trust. A long relationship that you build one step at a time. WITHOUT hurting anyone else in the process.

Adulterer is what a WS is. My WH told our DD he was "dating" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Are you kidding me? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

IMVHO, To say Lover when WS are commiting adultery is enabling/acknowledging their actions. It is a way for the foggy WS to excuse their thievery/rape/destruction of a M and
a denial that their actions are just plain wrong!

I cannot say OWs name without choking. I cannot say they have SF. To me they are fu*****. Fu***** each other and Fu****** me and my family over.

Am I right? Yes. Do I want to save my M? Yes. Can I be right and save my M? Don't know. I do know that for me, to stuff how I feel and what this PA/EA has done, would be too damaging to me. This is not a DJ to me. THe DJ in this would be for WS to think I will accept this. A DJ would be me assuming that WS have any sense of right and wrong and morals.

I do not constantly call WH Adulterer. I do not call her his who**. But to pussyfoot around their actions by calling them lovers would make me ballistic!

I Plan A as best as I can given our distance. But to deny how the BS feels is to diminish them and their right to feel betrayed. Becasue they are Betrayed.

Of course this is just my opinion. BUt boy, this thread really threw me! Sorry don't mean to offend anyone.

CV,

Maybe your H just referred to her as his "lover" because he couldn't come up with another term? I realize how hurtful that term is and that's why I would NEVER refer to anyone as my lover, other than my H.

CC

I agree with native on this one.Let's not be so PC as to ignore the actions and definitions of those that do these things.That to me is just ridiculous.If you are in recvoery though,I think it's safe to assume that most people then refer back to using each other's names and titles(husband,wife,etc) and the OP as just the OP so as not to incite anger.But here,where many of us are not ever going to have marital recovery,well,my WH IS an adulterer,the OW IS a homewrecker and always will be.No excuses.

Lover to me now is a sickening term used by an adulterer and an OP in a sick romantic way that I just would not asscociate with.

O

TMCM, I believe it was you in Sept. 2003 when I first posted here who told me to pick up my sleeping son and follow my gut feeling to check on my H. I never did. A few days ago I found out the extent of his A. I had always believed him (sort of) that it was an EA. At that point when I posted here he was already into his 7th month of a PA. I should have hired that private detective long ago. I was stupid....but not anymore. Check out my post if you want to see what has become of my M.

I won't use the word "Lover". In fact Squid uses that as a term of endearment for me : " My lover".

"lover" is not accurate for OM either as he is right now cowering beneath his GFs righteous boot, slagging off my Squid to her every second he can so as to ingratiate himself back into her affections.

OM seems to be a 'value free' term that does not cause offense to anyone, neither BS nor WS so I use it.

In discussion I call OM 'him' or occasionally " Keith Chegwin" ( A washed up z-list UK celebrity and ex-childrens TV presenter that OM almost PERFCETLY resenbles in height, looks and physique).

One day Squid will tell me why she chose such an utterly pathetic man as a 'lover'. Until she does I am completely at a loss to know why.

Og dear this post has gotten me thinking about OM again and my wanting to damage him.

Time to go to the gym I think !!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Something just came to my mind as I was reading some more posts on this topic.

When my child makes a mistake I don't call him a "bad boy". He made a mistake, he is not bad, his actions are bad. However that said if he continues with his bad actions, he then BECOMES a bad boy.

I can forgive a mistake, a slip. However when you don't learn from your mistakes and continue with doling out the pain, that is when you become something.

I call it, MY ADLUTEROUS WIFE, in fact as much as it actually hurts ME to think it I've been kicking the term "slut" around in my mind. Of course I don't think I could use that term to WW.

I agree that "lover" is a term that has no negatives attached to it. An A is wrong and the participants are wrong, at least one of them is. And if the behavior continues those people/s become wrong and have to live with the title that is associated with their actions.

My thoughts,
Native

Why wouldn't I refer to my exWW's OM as her lover. After all, according to her he is the best lover imaginable. None better, certainly not me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Such is life in fantasyland.

Lover? Never, I could never use that term for OW. Slimeball homewrecker, yeh that's the current one. To me, the term lover denotes something good and wholesome.

Oh course, to WH "lover" is probably just fine. Wife seems to mean household appliance.

The thread was amusing to me, but also at times made the hair bristle on the back of my neck.

TMCM... I also liked what Spidey had to say about using the "friends" term. I often wondered what kind of a woman my STBX was if she could behave that way with someone who is just a friend.

But then I read your post... Ah yes,,,, the old "Friends with Benefits" My STBX has had some of those. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

EWWWWW! Another dose of reality to slap me in the face!

So the OM and I are e-mailing each other and he asked if he could call me his girlfriend.

Ya know what I told him? "We could be friends with privledges!" AHHHHHHHHHH!!!! I can't believe it!!!!

I need a bath - I feel icky!