Contact with OM - did I handle this correctly?

I need some opinions and input on the following:

To those who donâ€™t know my story â€“ the short version is in my signature line.

Since Iâ€™ve sent the 2nd NC and â€˜closureâ€™ letter to OM almost a year ago, he has respected my boundaries and didnâ€™t try to contact me again. He has kept his distance and during accidental contact at work, both of us has acted distant & professional and only greeted each other briefly. We living in a small town and during one or two occasions, my H also bumped into OM. My Hâ€™s court case (unfair dismissal at work) is still in progress and during these occasions, OM talked with my H and asked him about the court case. My H said although he would prefer not talking to OM during these occasions, he was okay with it.

At the end of last year OM contacted my H by phone to buy a computer from him. My H was a computer technician & IT specialist at this company before he lost his job and last year my H started his own small computer company. My H sold a second hand computer to OM and installed it at his home. My H reassured me that he view this transaction with OM as just another business and is okay with it.

Iâ€™ve started working again last week and on Friday I bumped into OM. He greeted me and wished me compliments for the New Year. I did the same and walk away. Later that day OM popped into my office for the FIRST time since our inappropriate friendship ended and I found it very strange and unnecessary. Immediately I felt disturbed and anxious but I kept my act and handled him as cold and professional as I could. He was looking for someone in my dept (Iâ€™m the Administrator and Secretary for this dept) but I had the feeling that he was looking for an excuse to drop into my office to test my reaction. He never had any requests at my office before. After Iâ€™ve told him the person he is looking for is not around, he tried to make some small talk with me. He asked about my Hâ€™s court case and he asked me to give my H a message that he is very satisfied with the computer and interested in buying another one from him. Again, I kept it cold and professional and only answered him briefly. He then left.

As always, I informed my H about the accidental contact and OMâ€™s behavior. My H said I handled these incidents correctly and must continue to keep it short and professional if this happens again in future. Me and my H agreed that I must not show any reaction towards OM by sending him another NC letter (since I've already done that twice in the past). We both have a feeling that OM is possibly trying to get a reaction out of me (even if itâ€™s negative). But why now after ALL this time?

I can honestly say that although I still feel slightly anxious and uncomfortable when I bump into OM, Iâ€™m not aware of any residual or inappropriate feelings for him anymore. It is such a relief. The members who followed my story will know how hard Iâ€™ve struggled and how long it took me to overcome those feelings.

Well, this morning on my way to the office, I bumped into OM again. He was also on his way to his office. We followed the same route for a while and during that time he tried to make some small talk with me again. He asked about our holiday; where we went for the holidays; if it was a nice place to stay etc. I kept it friendly, but professional. I answered his questions briefly. I try to react the way I would with any another colleague or acquaintance.

I phoned my H today and informed him about these incidents. My H reassured me again that I handled it correctly. Iâ€™m glad my H doesnâ€™t seem upset by these incidents and Iâ€™m also relieved that he thinks I handled these incidents correctly and appropriate, but I need to receive other opinions as well. Maybe I just need some reassurance on this. In my 2nd NC letter last year I requested OM to NOT make any conversation with me and he promised to respect that and keep his distance. He respected my request, but now it seems he is starting to try and cross my personal boundaries again. Do you also think I handled these incidents correctly?

I will appreciate any input.

Thanks,
Suzet

[ January 17, 2005, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]

Why do you continue to work with the OM instead of seeking other employment?

Is your husband comfortable with you working with and bumping into OM?

Susan

(I quit my job working with OM years ago. It's the second best decision I ever made. The first one being to stay with my husband. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Hi Suzette !

I have some questions more than advice. I don't give advice outside my own experience if I can help it !

Firstly why does OM still have such an interest in your family's progress ? To know enough to ask questions of your H about his unfair dismissal claim, and that your H might be able to supply a computer. This is amazing for an OM IMO.

Also why do you and H still give him permission to pry into your business so? Why does NC not mean NC in your case?

If OM asked me to help with his PC business or stopped me in the street to ask how my job problems were I would either damage him there and then, or at least spit in his eye and walk away.

It ALREADY hurts me that my Squid told OM intimate details about our lives, and even non intimate ones but if I felt that had continued after NC was established I don't know what I would do.

Squid, as I have written a lot, has plenty of work to do in recovery but she has asked that I cease all contact with OM GF even so that " they don't know anything more about us , ever".

Even Squid who has not yet been able to apologise to me for her affair wants not even second-hand contact with OM now. He is a boil lanced long ago.

Not advice, but read Jen ( KIWJ's) tale of last week's 'closure' meeting with OM, and how it hurt rob and all the dynamics involved in that sitch and review your own sitch again.

All blessings Suztem and good to have you back ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Suzet,

I think the reason you're feeling uneasy is because you are seeing what I'm seeing...and increased effort on OM's part to increase contact. It's my feeling that your "politeness" even cold politeness is not discouraging enough to keep him from continuing. I would very much like you to nip this in the bud. The next time OM contrives to "run into" you accidently.....don't answer his casual question...don't give an indication that you're willing to idly chit chat with him. Be more direct...."OM, I'm not interested in being friends with you anymore and I'm not comfortable with your contact with my husband, even for business. Please back off."

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Susan:
 Why do you continue to work with the OM instead of seeking other employment?

Is your husband comfortable with you working with and bumping into OM?<hr /></blockquote>Susan, this thread will provide the answers on your questions. (Check my answer to 2ofakind on this thread).

Bob, I think my H isnâ€™t very bothered with the contact because I were not involved in a serious EA and/or sexual relationship and I think he feels relatively okay with it because he can see Iâ€™m fully recovered from residual feelings. My H also have full trust in me and know that I will not allowed myself to EVER become involved in a inappropriate friendship again... He also knows that Iâ€™m not interested in becoming friends with OM ever againâ€¦ Even if both me and OM were single and free I would not be interested.

[ January 17, 2005, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]

Suzette, if its no big deal to you and your H to contact OM, why this post ?

Your H doesn't mind.
You have no feelings for OM.

yet... you articulate concerns and post them here.

If you HAD an A that risked your M you need NC to recover it. No exceptions.

If you didn't have an A that risked your M then why the worry ?

I don't understand ?

Star*fish,

I didnâ€™t notice youâ€™ve also send a reply. Thanks for your insight an opinion! Possibly Iâ€™ve acted too politely and need to make my boundaries clear again with the next opportunity.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bob:
 Suzette, if its no big deal to you and your H to contact OM, why this post ?

Your H doesn't mind.
You have no feelings for OM.

yet... you articulate concerns and post them here.

If you HAD an A that risked your M you need NC to recover it. No exceptions.

If you didn't have an A that risked your M then why the worry ?

I don't understand ?<hr /></blockquote>Bob, since Iâ€™ve shared my whole story with MB and since the members on MB helped me so much in my recovery, I feel I need to be honest and open with the members on this forum regarding contact with OM... I KNOW the importance of NC and since it seems OM try to break NC again, I feel very uneasy. Not because I still have feelings for him, but because it doesnâ€™t feel right to have these conversations with him. I want to do the right thingâ€¦. And I validate the opinions and advice on this forum. Thatâ€™s why I've send the post. If my H doesnâ€™t mind if OM want to do business with him â€“ itâ€™s okay with meâ€¦ As long as OM leave me alone and doesnâ€™t use the contact with my H to establish contact with me again. I just donâ€™t feel comfortable with it and I feel OM doesnâ€™t respect my last NC letter. But at the same time Iâ€™m afraid a negative reaction from my side will show OM that his behavior upsets me and make me feel uneasy, and this may give him the wrong idea that I still have feelings for him. I don't want that.

Suzet

[ January 17, 2005, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]

You have helped me hugely Suzette and perhaps I am too simplistic or black and white.
For me this man is either an OM or an acquaintance. In my world ( and I though in MB) a friend makes the transition to OM only once and theres no way back if a M is to remain healthy.

Does this man add such irreplaceable value to your lives so you can't just backlist him ?
Also if your H was as hurt as, say, I would be by your contact would you impose NC harder ?

Shall I stop asking questions ?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

All blessings. I'm just trying to understand a situation I have no empathy with. I learn every day on MB ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Suzet:

You and H are not taking this seriously. My wife's OM is over 3000 miles away and that is not enough!

I would never engage OM in conversation or in a business transaction. The two of you are treating OM as if though he was a decent respectable person. I would never ever lower my standards, most OMs are scum and your guy is no exception. The mere fact that he constantly tries to get back in the thick of things tells me he has no regard FOR YOUR HUSAND and that he feels he still has a chance with you.

I am with Bob, it would be difficulty for me not to tell OM what a piece of trash he is and I would need someone to hold me because I may want to beat the crap out of OM.

I have been thinking about what I might do if I find out my wife and OM had contact. If the contact was initiated by my wife----------- and I am 100% sure of this I would get a divorce. If the contact was initiated by OM and my wife was an innocent bystander I would do something to OM. I think your H needs to be a little tough and not act like nothing happened by helping OM with his computer.

Bob,

No, you don't need to stop asking questions. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm knocking off from work now (already late), but I will post answers on your questions tomorrow.

Take care,
Suzet

Suzet,

I would send that NC letter each and EVERY time that he made ANY type of contact with you.

Everytime that you engage in ANY type of conversation with him, YOU have broken your own decision of NC.

Refuse to engage in any conversation...especially those of a personal nature. If he's looking for a person...refer him to somone else.

Send that letter...each and everytime. Sooner or later he will catch on.

JMHO
committed

i disagree with committed. I think each time you send a no contact letter it's making a contact.

let me suggest some actions that can take the emotional separation to a higher level.

when you are walking across the building and you 'accidentally' bump into each other heading in the same direction....since you still believe in accidents, then accidentally suddenly discover that you need to tie your shoes that don't have laces. accidentally discover that you left something on your desk and have to go back for it. accidentally discover that it's the wrong time for you to be walking across the building to do what you were going to do and so you accidentally don't need to walk down the hall at the same time.

in other words all this accidental crap is just that, it's crap. there ARE no accidents there is only intention. Acknowledged and unacknowledged intentions. The power of intention is higher than the probability of accidents. There are no accidents of the heart there are only intentions.

Until your intentions are scantified take the actions and after your intentions become scantified continue to take the actions.

Choose out of the attachment to OM, choose into your attachment to your H. It's time to go to the higher level where there are no accidents only intentions. When you accidentally find yourself overflowing with devotion and love toward your H. When you accidentally find yourself unwilling to entertain any other emotional attachment accidents...that's the accident you want. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Kasey1:
 i disagree with committed. I think each time you send a no contact letter it's making a contact

<hr /></blockquote>That would be true if he wasn't making the initial contact. He is seeking her out...for one reason or another.

If he was not contacting her...and she just up and sent the NC letter...it would be like that.

It isn't.

JMHO
committed

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by committedandlovingit:
That would be true if he wasn't making the initial contact. He is seeking her out...for one reason or another.

If he was not contacting her...and she just up and sent the NC letter...it would be like that.

It isn't.

JMHO
committed <hr /></blockquote>I have yet to see the time when repeating myself to someone who was bent on not hearing me helped.

"We followed the same route......"

Obviously the OM STILL has not respected ANYTHING.When I read about these workplace chance "meetings" I just have to shake my head.It's starting all over again.You may be in a better place Suzet but this man is not.IMO,you should not be friendly,having small talk or walking in the same direction as this guy.Frankly,I am very surprised at how you mention your H is taking all this.I would not be so gracious.This OM came between you and him and to be ok enough to give this man advice and speak with him is much more than I would ever consider,but I am not your H.

However,there's a small part of me that thinks that even though you have disclosed the meetings that this is still ok with you on some level since you were not as strict with him as you SHOULD have been.Maybe I am wrong,only you would know but I had a distinctly creepy feeling reading your post and wondered just how many more hallway/office occurrences were on the horizon.

And,if I may say so,I do not think that it would give the OM a negative imnpression if you get a little MAD at him and tell him to leave you alone,period.If I were in your shoes,there would be no question in the OM's mind that I will NOT accept anymore contact and that it is making me MAD that he is disrespecting me.If he doesn't get the message then a 100 more NC letter's will not matter.A simple but strong statement to STOP talking to you and stop coming near your office NOW and then completely ignore him.

Also,the fact that your H is giving him ANY of his time is showing this OM that he can ease his way back into your lives under false pretenses.What he is allowed to have from you he will take.Your H has to cut this guy off as much as you do.

I know we haven't seen eye to eye in the past on certain issues but those are my thoughts.

O

[ January 17, 2005, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]

Dear Suzet*,

I would tell him very calmly "I do not wish to talk to you."

Perhaps it would be better if your H would do the same.

This present situation is giving OM the impression he CAN seek out contact.

... in my opinion.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Kasey1:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by committedandlovingit:
That would be true if he wasn't making the initial contact. He is seeking her out...for one reason or another.

If he was not contacting her...and she just up and sent the NC letter...it would be like that.

It isn't.

JMHO
committed <hr /></blockquote>I have yet to see the time when repeating myself to someone who was bent on not hearing me helped. <hr /></blockquote>Take it somewhere else kasey...no one is persecuting you here.

committed

what part of "he can't hear you" do people not understand here?

how about renting an airplane and flying a banner across the sky that's an idea, or take out a full page add that will do it. how about we obcess over better communication skills and spend a couple thousand more dollars on a seminar?

gawd, people are so dense. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

This present situation is giving OM the impression he CAN seek out contact.

Thank you....that is it in a nutshell.

THAT is why I thought that another NC letter was in order...nothing more, nothing less.

committed

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by committedandlovingit:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Kasey1:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by committedandlovingit:
That would be true if he wasn't making the initial contact. He is seeking her out...for one reason or another.

If he was not contacting her...and she just up and sent the NC letter...it would be like that.

It isn't.

JMHO
committed <hr /></blockquote>I have yet to see the time when repeating myself to someone who was bent on not hearing me helped. <hr /></blockquote>Take it somewhere else kasey...no one is persecuting you here.

committed <hr /></blockquote>you just illustrated my point with perfect eloquence. I never said anyone was persecuting me here. I was disagreeing with your solution. The more response to contact is given the more contact will continue. Actions speak louder than words.

let me ask you this...

how do you handle spam email?

do you reply to the senders and ask them to take you off their mailing lists?

[ January 17, 2005, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: Kasey1 ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />This present situation is giving OM the impression he CAN seek out contact. <hr /></blockquote>Despite what many FWWs post here many still cling to the OM in one subtle way or another. It may be by allowing this passes in the hall way, reading old emails, or even remembering the good old days (most will deny it).

Suzet...I am in a similar sit where OW works in same area as me. I have sort of a complicated story at work with all of the events that have happened, but one boundary is absolutely no contact. YOU have demanded this in your NC letter, right? It seems that there is absolutley NO REASON why OM should be/has to be contacting you. At the very least, why didn't he just email you or call you--if you were the ONLY one with this knowledge of where this other person was that he needed to see?

IMHO, the best way that it was explained is what Kasey said--there are no "accidents" or "coincidences." If there happens to be an "accident" you need to create an "accident" yourself and avoid this OM at ALL COSTS.

liny I just want to tell you I like your sig line.

Hey kasey--thanks, have to give credit to Finally Learning though!

Suzet...another "option" you and your H may have, besides the options that have already been given...

Next time he does contact you, maybe your H should give a "personal" call to the OM. This would do many things: prevent *you* from having to initiate contact; send the message that both you and your husband do not want this OM in your life's. Period.

Suzet,

I think you know your answer. You said it yourself, he has crossed your boundaries. I think you need to simply tell him he is crossing boundaries you have set for yourself and you want him to NOT talk to you again.

I also think that if you are worried about your boundaries being crossed, you should tell your H. Asking him what HE thinks is sort of passing the buck on this. If you want your H's support in shutting this down, then ask for it. Don't drop it in his lap and say "how do you feel?".

I think your worries are well founded, act on them.

God Bless,

JL

Another thought dear Suzet..

it's rather immature of OM to seek you out for chit chat after you have sent him TWO letters requesting the opposite.

He needs some maturing.
He's not a gentleman.

Don't make the mistake of thinking "oh, but I'm also to blame, I was the WW, blahblah...".

You have earned your "F".
You have matured.
Keep this guy away.. let him grow up.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> He's not a gentleman.<hr /></blockquote>Exactly, very few OMs are! If a real man ever got tangled like that he would likely see the error of his ways and apologize to your H. Instead the H treated the OM as a gentleman because he expected OM to also be a gentleman----- bad mistake!

H needs to get on the phone and have a few words with OM to set him straight. I think Suzet should ask H to take care of this business once and for all.

Suzet,
I didn't read through all the posts, so hopefully I won't just be repeating a bunch of things... Your post caught my attention because I still work with the OW. (See my brief story in my signature line...). I gave my OW one letter of closure, and then had to follow it up with an email when she tried to contact me. I made it extremely clear that the no contact was a PERMANANT CONDITION. She, for the last 2 weeks, has abided by that. (I'm only post d-day by 5 weeks...) It sounds to me like the OM in your case is still trying to get to you. Whether it's for a response or whether it's to test the waters because he wants to reignite something, it doesn't matter. He's violating your expressed wishes (twice over, I might add...).

There are a few things I am coming to realize in my situation:
1.) Although I am working with OW right now, this will not be a permanent situation either. I simply cannot completely heal and have any lasting/meaningful recovery in my marriage until there is ZERO contact, and no possibility of contact. Maybe you should consider that...???
2.) Although your H says he's ok with the "accidental contact", and that you are handling these situations correctly, I wonder if deep down inside his healing isn't really progressing either. I'm not trying to make judgements; I'm just going off what my H has told me. There have been some "accidental contact" situations in my case, although I don't actually talk to her, just brush by. My H has told me I'm handling these correctly, but that his total recovery and healing is dependent on abosolutely NO CONTACT. ??? I don't know.
3.) If it were me, and I genuinely meant what I said in my no contact letters, I don't think I'd allow this guy to "pop in" or create small talk or any of the rest of it. I think I'd make him feel like a jerk by pretending not to see or hear him. Perhaps in his distorted way of thinking he thinks that if he gets any reaction out of you at all--even if it's "professional and appropriate" that it is lisence for him to continue such behavior. Beware!! Over time this may help your guard shrink and your committment to NC fade...

Suzet:

I think you are aware of the damage that could be caused by opening yourself up to the OM in anyway. You are a good person who immediately shared the contact story with your husband and that is good.

I immediately thought of my wife being contacted by her XOM again and how I would be upset if she didn't firmly nip it dead immediately. I think your XOM was testing the waters as a few others have suggested and he may have renewed his interest in you again. That tells me he is bold and does not care about your H or your family but only of himself.

Be firm with him and don't even leave the window open a crack. Deadbolt the doors and windows to prevent the possibility of a relapse. I know you are more aware today than before and I know you won't accidently let it happen again.

I hope my wife remains strong if faced with the same situation. I hate the thought of her having ANY contact at all.

TooSoon

Suzet,
Hello old friend. I poped in and saw your post.
I glanced through some replies. but didn't read very carefully, so forgive me if I repeat.

No Contact is for you AND your husband. This FOM should NOT be contacting you or your husband for any reason. Small talk is just not necessary.
NOTHING, let me repeat this, NOTHING that happens to your dear husband or you is any of his business. I would tell your husband that you feel this way. No more business between the two of them. No more computers. NOTHING.

If he begins to walk beside you at work. Stop. Let him pass. If he inquires.........tell him that you do not wish to talk to him, and would prefer he go ahead of you.
End this now. You and hubby may seem fine with it, but this FOM will intrude into your life until he cause a problem again.
VERY firmly. Very "to the point".
Stop it now.
That is my best advice. I hope it helps. I hope he gets the hint. Two letters, and some time passed.......I tell you, Suzet, He is at it again. Don't give him ANY room in your precious marriage.
God Bless!
TSC/tray

Thanks everyone for your responses and all the helpful opinions and advice â€“ I really appreciate it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Bob â€“
Yesterday youâ€™ve asked me the following questions and Iâ€™ve promised to respond to it today:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Does this man add such irreplaceable value to your lives so you can't just backlist him ?
Also if your H was as hurt as, say, I would be by your contact would you impose NC harder ?<hr /></blockquote>Bob, I see youâ€™ve made the wrong assumption by saying that OM have a irreplaceable value in our lives. I donâ€™t know why youâ€™ve made this assumption because itâ€™s simply not true and absurd! I donâ€™t think ANY recovered/recovering FWSâ€™s and BSâ€™s will ever view an OP as and â€œirreplaceable valueâ€ â€“ especially not people who posting on this MB website and seeking advice! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Bob, Iâ€™m simply in the unfortunate position of still working at the same company as OM and living in the same town than him, and both me and my H are just trying to cope with this situation the best we can under the circumstances without making a fussâ€¦ However, as Iâ€™ve read through all the responses this morning, Iâ€™ve realized that we canâ€™t allow this situation to continue and that I need to make my boundaries clear to OM again if the opportunity presents itself.

Brownhair said: â€This present situation is giving OM the impression he CAN seek out contact.â€ I think this is true and the main reason I feel uneasy and concerned.

Remeber Bob, I were involved in an inappropriate friendship and beginning of an EA and although my involvement were very painfull to both me and my H, both of us however feel there is a huge difference in the damage and pain caused by someone who were involved in â€˜justâ€™ an inappropriate friendship, comparing to someone who were involved in an intense EA and/or PA. If I were involved in an intense EA/PA, both me and my H would definitely feel much stronger about OMâ€™s attempts to contact and both of us would impose NC much harder. Yesterday evening I had a chat about this with my H again. He said that he do care about OMâ€™s contact with me and if this situation continues, he do feel I need to take proper action and make my stance clear to OM again.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Stanley:
I think your H needs to be a little tough and not act like nothing happened by helping OM with his computer.<hr /></blockquote>I agree with this. Both me and my H are good natured and forgiving people (especially my H) and maybe this is part of the problem. My H is a non-confrontational person who doesnâ€™t believe in keeping grudges against people and on some level Iâ€™m the same. Although these are good qualities and something I really admire and appreciate about my H, I do see how some manupilative people like OM can misuse these qualities in both me and my H and use it to his own advantage if we are not careful.

Octobergirl, thanks for your thoughts. I know we haven't seen eye to eye in the past on certain issues but I appreciate your post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I do realize that I should have acted stronger towards OM. I feel Iâ€™ve probably acted too friendly and politely and this is part of the reason I feel concerned. I also want to make it clear to you that the reason I acted like that is NOT because I feel itâ€™s okay to still have contact with OM, NOT AT ALL, but because of the issues Iâ€™ve posted to Stanley and Bob in the paragraphs above.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by cheeks:
 Perhaps in his distorted way of thinking he thinks that if he gets any reaction out of you at all--even if it's "professional and appropriate" that it is lisence for him to continue such behavior. Beware!! Over time this may help your guard shrink and your committment to NC fade...<hr /></blockquote>Cheeks, thanks for this. Your â€˜warningâ€™ is very valid and Iâ€™m aware how important it is to keep up my guard and take proper actions if necessary. As Iâ€™ve said earlier, me and my H had a talk yesterday evening and has decided I will make my boundaries clear again if it is necessary and if this situation continues.

To all the other members I havenâ€™t mention in this post: committed; Kasey; brownhair; LINY; Just Learning; Toosoon & tsc (hi there old friend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )â€¦. I have read each and every one of your posts and each and every one of your gave me some valuable opinions and/or advice and some things to think about. Thanks again!

God bless,
Suzet

Hi suzet !

you said Bob, I see youâ€™ve made the wrong assumption by saying that OM have a irreplaceable value in our lives. I donâ€™t know why youâ€™ve made this assumption because itâ€™s simply not true and absurd! I donâ€™t think ANY recovered/recovering FWSâ€™s and BSâ€™s will ever view an OP as and â€œirreplaceable valueâ€ â€“ especially not people who posting on this MB website and seeking advice!

I didn't make any assumption Suzet, I asked a question. I asked because I am trying to work out why you and yoru H still tolerate him in your lives.Maybe its hard for me because its kind of binary in my world view - if someone has an affair, the OP is a threat for life AND it is disrespectful to the BS to remain in contact with them.

If there is NO affair then different rules of contact apply - the person may or may not play a healthy part in your lives.

But if there has been an affair there is no healthy part OP can play in the lives of the FBS /FWS family IMO.

You seem to be advocating that you only almost had an EA with this man so you only nearly have to maintain NC.

I don't understand mate. No 2X4 honestly, I just don't understand.

He either poses a threat to your M or he doesn;t, I don't se grades of threat of OPs. And its clear to me as I read your scenario here that OM is quit edeliberately involving himself in your lives. That is not the action of a person who is 'over' you. It smacks of low grade stalking IMO.

All blessings to you whatever you decide.

Bob, Bob, my friendâ€¦â€¦sighâ€¦â€¦ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ... I have great respect & admiration for you and I donâ€™t want to argue with you, but it seems you keep misinterpreting and misunderstanding my wordsâ€¦. I keep getting the feeling that you're making the wrong assumptions about how I think and feel. I hope I can clear this out.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />if someone has an affair, the OP is a threat for life AND it is disrespectful to the BS to remain in contact with them.<hr /></blockquote>Yes Bob, I agree with you. An OP is a threat for life and it is disrespectful towards the BS if the WS remain in contact with the OP. But Bob, my contact with OM is not deliberate and purposefulâ€¦ During all these accidental contacts I have ALWAYS kept it cool and professional. I have kept my distance. In my NC letter last year I requested OM to keep his distance and don't talk with me. He is the one who violates this now and not respecting the boundaries. Bob, I just tried to handled this situation the best I could without making a fuss. As Iâ€™ve said before, unfortunately Iâ€™m in the position of still working at the same company as him. Accidental contacts between us is unavoidable. The best I can do now is following the suggestions I received on this thread and make my boundaries clear to OM againâ€¦ What else do you suggest me to do? If it was possible for me to quit and find another job I would have done so a looooong time ago. Please read the thread I posted to Susan on the 1st page of this thread.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />If there is NO affair then different rules of contact apply - the person may or may not play a healthy part in your lives.

But if there has been an affair there is no healthy part OP can play in the lives of the FBS /FWS family IMO.<hr /></blockquote>I agreeâ€¦

<blockquote>quote:<hr />You seem to be advocating that you only almost had an EA with this man so you only nearly have to maintain NC.<hr /></blockquote>I never meant or said this Bobâ€¦ Youâ€™ve made the wrong assumption.

Suzet

[ January 18, 2005, 05:10 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]

Bob, Bob, my friendâ€¦â€¦sighâ€¦â€¦ Please don't patronise me Suzet, I deserve better than that.

Suzet I am a simple man, and I have made no assumptions but asked questions and asked for clarifcations. You jump to your own defence as if accused with everything I say.

FACT IS you and your H treat OM like a friendly-ish acquaintance ( selling him PCs, being polite when you bump into him, exchanging New years pleasantries , discussing your H employment problems etc etc.). HOW can you POSSIBLY think this is NC as defined by MB or anywhere else?

You say you handle NC violations from OM as well as you can without making a fuss. Why is not making a fuss worth tolerating NC violations ?

I make no value judgments on this, just trying to understand. You and your H must do as you think is best for you.

Suzet its probably best that I don't repond to this thread any more. I CLEARLY see half-enforced NC, a near-welcome for OM in your lives and a lot of excuses for this status quo, when you tell me clearly this is not the case.

I will only say that if OM in my situation made any approach to contact let alone new years pleasantries, court case discussions or PC purchases he would be eating his teeth tout de suite.

All blessings

Bob, I didnâ€™t patronise you, but Iâ€™m sorry if you perceived my words that wayâ€¦ It was truly not my intent. Again, Iâ€™m sorry... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Suzet

Suzette,

HI!!! I've missed you, ya know? I've been reading this thread and admiring you for how you've handled everything. I think you ARE doing the best you can under the circumstances. And it's astonishing to me that you are able to "reject" OM even when there has been contact. This tells ME that you have settled things in your mind. I'm happy for you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BOB,

I finally agree with you....you probably should not post here anymore. It looks to me like you are not at a point in YOUR recovery to respond to threads like this. I have seen you throw some mighty big 2X4's over the past week or two, at other FWW's in similar situations. And what I think is that you are taking THESE FWW's personally....as though they are a threat to you. I understand where you're coming from, but it is NOT helpful to tell them what YOU would do, because YOU are not their husbands....each situation is a little different, and I think Suzette is doing everything she can, and will take the advice she has received and use it IF it is helpful. Bob, I think you often have good advice, it's just that you seem to interject it with your personal feelings, and that is not your place. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

NOW

Hi NotOnlyWords, itâ€™s so nice to hear from you!!! Thanks for post and thanks for your support and encouragement! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I have often thought about you and the other members here on MBâ€™ers while me and hubby were away on holiday! How are you???

Suzet,

I'm doing ok....RH and I are getting closer all the time, and I feel so fortunate that he "understands" so much. I read a lot here and sometimes get so upset by what I "see" going on and I have to back off for a while. Maybe I'm not so different from Bob.....I tend to take things "personally" here sometimes, and when I see some FWW's getting 2 x 4'd, I feel it, too. Mostly it's the FWW's that have come a really long way in recovery....I just don't think they need the "derailement". There are going to be challenges on the journey, no matter how far any of us has come, because we just can't "hide" from life and things we'd rather avoid. Sometimes, I think, these situations that "pop up" are a test, and also tend to bring you closer together.... and from what I can tell, you and your hubby are really OK!!!! The two of you need to handle it the way you see fit, and as long as you are in agreement, no matter what anyone else on here says, that is your goal. I find it too confusing to listen to so many people giving their opinions....I only care about RH's anyway....he's the only one I have to worry about.

Glad to have you back!

NOW

NOW,

Thanks, is good to be back with â€˜old friendsâ€™ on MB again and Iâ€™m glad to hear you (and RH) are doing okay! From your post itâ€™s clear that you and I think and feel the same in so many ways. I also tend to take things too â€˜personallyâ€™ sometimes and then I get defensive and frustrated when I feel misunderstood or when I feel wrong assumptions about me has being madeâ€¦ I think this is what happened during my interactions with Bob on this thread â€“ we both took each otherâ€™s comments â€˜personallyâ€™ - and Iâ€™m sorry things turned out this way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> There are going to be challenges on the journey, no matter how far any of us has come, because we just can't "hide" from life and things we'd rather avoid. Sometimes, I think, these situations that "pop up" are a test, and also tend to bring you closer together....<hr /></blockquote>Very wise wordsâ€¦ I agree with you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> During early withdrawal and recovery it was extremely difficult for me to work at the same company as OM. I was very frustrated about my circumstances and fruitless attempts in finding another job. In the beginning I felt fearful at work almost all the time. Just the thought of bumping into OM made me feel very anxious and stressed. But today I'm so glad to say I have overcome all that issues. I know my recovery would have been so much faster if I could just quit my job and find another one. But God allowed this â€œthornâ€ to remain in my life and today Iâ€™m a much stronger person partly because of that. We may never know all the â€˜why'sâ€™ of what God allows in our lives but I believe He allows everything for a purpose. The following verse from Script (once given to me by ForeverHers) have very personal meaning for me:

"To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness."

Blessings,
Suzet

[ January 18, 2005, 07:13 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]

Suzet,

That was an awesome post.....I never thought about that verse quite that way, but it really rings true to me....I can relate! Anyway, thank you for sharing that with me.....it meant a lot!

Have a great day!

NOW

Recently I am more of a lurker than anything, and don't post anymore. But...for some reason...I have to here...

Not trying to speak for Bob, nor put any words into his mouth, but I think I clearly see his point...

...Which is...

Why make something complicated out of something so very, very simple?

NO contact is exactly that. NO...NONE...NADA..ZERO...

Not for pleasantries...NOT for business reasons...Not for ANYTHING!

Simply put...To some degree...we have to ALLOW contact in order to have contact. Unless, of course, someone is holding a gun to our head. I think what Bob is asking is...Why when you run into him on the street do you even speak AT ALL? If he is walking at the same pace as you, in the same direction, STOP...for 5 seconds...let him keep walking...If he stops...YOU start walking again....If he wants business, nope....can't do....

Bottom line is....We can remove ourselves from anyone. All we have to do is choose to do it. Rude, huh? Probably. So what? Nobody has ever said that enforcing NC was peaches and cream or a bed of roses. If...it takes rudeness...to enforce NC....so be it.

Suzet said:

"Both me and my H are good natured and forgiving people (especially my H) and maybe this is part of the problem. My H is a non-confrontational person who doesnâ€™t believe in keeping grudges against people and on some level Iâ€™m the same. Although these are good qualities and something I really admire and appreciate about my H, I do see how some manupilative people like OM can misuse these qualities in both me and my H and use it to his own advantage if we are not careful."

You have to drop this attitude. You can't afford to be "non-confrontational", when you are "confronting" all the things we must in order to have a successful marriage.

I think this is waht Bob is asking.

My .02....

hcii

I think this is waht Bob is asking.

* applause ! * Correctamundo !

NOW, you hate my open loathing of my OM, you've said so before. I'm sorry that upsets you. A lot on here upsets me like good people convincing themselves they are doing the right thing when every fact screams 'rationalisation'.

My 2x4 to one of my best MB friends Jen was utterly welcomed by her and used as a print off to help her work through it with her husband. So that was my bad, right ?

I am not threatened by FWS and I have no idea where you get this from.

Also I have expressed nothing but personal OPINION just like every opinion expressed on here.

No feelings involved other than a concern for Suzet and her H with such casual contact still in place between OM and them.

I have made my point to suzette and will leave it there. Others agree with my point clearly however. DO THEY get intimidated by FWS too ?

All blessings NOW.

You too Suzet, you have to work this out in a way that suits you. However you YOURSELF smell a rat in yourprocessing of this situation else you would not have posted this thread IMO.

Some of my best friends on here are FWS, your accusation is false.

In fact FWS are some of the most vocal advocates of agressive NC.

Suzet and H think OM is a nice man. I can understand that from Suzet since no WW wants to accept she was attracted to scum.

In any event we always judge everything from our perspective. In my case---------- if I ever had an inappropriate friendship with a married woman I would certainly stay away once it was discovered---- particularly if the H knows about it. In fact I would apologize for my error and keep my end of the bargain by maintaining strict NC.

Like Kiwij once told my wife: â€œWhat part of NC you do not understand? The N or the C?â€

According to the experts of this board NC is forever and not supposed to be wishy-washy.

If Suzet is like many other FWW she likes the attention---- lets be frank and call a spade a spade.

Wow, stan, maybe you should reconsider this:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />If Suzet is like many other FWW she likes the attention---- lets be frank and call a spade a spade.<hr /></blockquote>If this is truly how you feel, maybe you should ask myrta this. Not a 2x4, not an insult, just a little insight to what *you* posted.

Blessings,
LINY

stanley I agree with LINY mate, that was a bit harsh. Looks like what NOW accused me of - projection of personal feelings onto another sitch.

I've learned from this not to comment on FWS threads unless I know them very well and we have a mutual trust already set up.

Maybe its a lesson for all FBS huh ?

All blessings

{{{{{{{{{{Bob}}}}}}}}}

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Jen

Bob Pure said

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I've learned from this not to comment on FWS threads unless I know them very well and we have a mutual trust already set up.
<hr /></blockquote>How do you get to "know" them very well and build up mutual trust?

Bob also said

<blockquote>quote:<hr />You jump to your own defence as if accused with everything I say. <hr /></blockquote>You have done the same thing to me. You said I "accused" you of interjecting personal feelings in your responses to FWW's. I did NOT. I said it "seems".......not, you ARE.

How do you get to "know" them very well and build up mutual trust?

By laughing, crying and interacting them in a consistent and trustworthy manner.
Is there another way ?

NOW I have no intention of arguing with you.

Suzet asked for opinion, I offered it after asking a few questions.

You said each situation is a little different, and I think Suzette is doing everything she can, and will take the advice she has received and use it IF it is helpful

I disagree. Suzet is not doing anything LIKE everything she can to maintain NC. And yes, each sitch is diffent but the Harleys mandate NC in EVERY SINGLE CASE of an A.

That , in summary, is my position here.

All blessings

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> By laughing, crying and interacting them in a consistent and trustworthy manner.
Is there another way <hr /></blockquote>Yes, but on-line? Is it that easy?

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> NOW I have no intention of arguing with you.
<hr /></blockquote>Really? Then why...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I disagree <hr /></blockquote> <blockquote>quote:<hr /> but the Harleys mandate NC in EVERY SINGLE CASE of an A.
<hr /></blockquote>But are they God? Is it possible that even experts can sometimes be wrong?

Bob, I don't know why I have this need to respond to you in a negative way. I'm well aware that I am doing that. I don't even disagree with most of what you are saying. All I can figure is that something about your posts brings out the defensive a#$ in me. I am really sorry about that. I know I've been a royal pain to you... almost like I'm "picking" on you. I'm sorry.
Bob, what is the WORST thing you've ever done in your entire life? The worst thing I've ever done is have an affair, which is perhaps, in most people's minds, second only to murder.

I would like to stop picking on you....can you help me figure out why I do it and how I can stop? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

God Bless You, Bob.

Not everyone can like everyone, thats fine. I have sort of become an UBER-FBS recently as we seem to be doing well after doing REALLY CR@P. I can imagine how annoying I must appear.Pleased as punch after six months hard work.

Just know that I truly know how dearly bought the "F" is in FBS. My own Squid is one just like you and I love her more than anything.

All blessings

[ January 18, 2005, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]

Bob,

Thanks....it isn't that I don't like you....I certainly don't know enough to decide that. I believe what it is, is that I so desperately want you to be able to "see" what a FWS goes through, as much as you would like us to see what a BS goes through.....it is kinda silly to be having this tug-of-war. Can we agree it is hell for both parties? I know you know that, so you don't have to answer. I am truly sorry for calling you out and for being such a dork about it.
I know that you and Squid have been doing better recently, and believe it or not, I am VERY happy to see that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I hereby promise to remember we are all in different stages of recovery....and that what matters is that we ARE in recovery. Amen?
Now I want to hug you....I can see why you get those a lot! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

{{{{{{{{{Bob}}}}}}}}}}

NOW we're all hurting, and hurt people speak forthrightly for many reasons.

Its K not to like me, it really is.

The only insight I have into the experience of a FWS is through my friends on here. They helped me be what Squid needed me to be when she was more spiteful than I ever dreamed possible to me and my kids.

And it worked, she is normalising and starting to enjoy her life a little again. We have a great hope of a future.

I think every BS is REELING from the assault of D-day at a time period when FWS can appear capable and superior.
It frankly appears like WS don't give a damn when BS are near suicidal.

I have learned from friends and my own Squid that many WS are not CAPABLE of processing that insult to the BS at that time and it takes love and care for them to reach a place where they can at all empathise.

Every time I see a man with a haircut the colour and style of OM I picture my baby running her fingers though it, whispering 'I love you' in his ear... and utterly loving the very experience that killed me inside, and that I may never recover from. Thats why I wonder if FWS can ever truly know the anguish of betrayal.

Its not a slight on FWS, really. I would never have known thsi pain had I not been a BS I could not imagine such pain without death.

Now, its my guess she no longer thinks of her affair with much fondness, well I hope so, but I can't be sure. She still can;t talk much about the A, and barely manages recovery talk.

In the same way, as my friend KY says I cannot imagien what it feels like to have INFLICTED such pain on one you love.

You are correct that we all hurt. Infidelity is horrible.

I DO beleive that your 'F' is hard earned NOW, honestly.

All blessings.

Suzet:

Is that you and your Hubbie posted on the picture page?

TooSoon

Suzet:

Whatever happened to the guy from England that was afraid to expose his WW's affair? I forget his board name.

TooSoon

Too Soon, I'm assuming your serious as Bob is one of the most prolific posters on the board (Sorry, Bob, I've called you talkative again) and was also one of the major contributors to this thread.

His name, if you're talking about the same person, is Bob Pure.

Jen

Toosoon â€“
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Is that you and your Hubbie posted on the picture page?<hr /></blockquote>Yes, it is. That photo was taken during our vacation at sea almost 2 years ago. We were out for dinner with friends that evening to celebrate my 30th birthday!
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Whatever happened to the guy from England that was afraid to expose his WW's affair? I forget his board name.<hr /></blockquote>Toosoon, his board name is deseperatedan. As you know, dan stopped posting back in October, but on Christmas he send this post to his old thread (his post is the last one on the page). He said he and his W are still together and that she has agreed to go on the opposite shift from OM. Dan also send me this post during December and I replied to him after I returned from holiday. I havenâ€™t heard from him since.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Stan-ley:
 Suzet and H think OM is a nice man. I can understand that from Suzet since no WW wants to accept she was attracted to scum.

AND

If Suzet is like many other FWW she likes the attention---- lets be frank and call a spade a spade.<hr /></blockquote>Stanley, please stop making false assumptions. Also stop making disrespectful judgements about FWS's in general. Your last statement was VERY disrespectful and insulting. You donâ€™t know me OR my H, so you canâ€™t speak for us and make your own wrong assumptions about how we feel or think. I understand you are a BS and still hurt, but it is not necessary to take your pain and anger out on me (or any other FWS for that matter) by making such statements. I can't help to wonder how your W will feel about your attitude...

Thanks LINY and Bob for you support in this matter with Stanley. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings,
Suzet

[ January 19, 2005, 01:07 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Octobergirl:
 [b....that this is still ok with you on some level since you were not as strict with him as you SHOULD have been.<hr /></blockquote>I dunno. Speaking as an ol'e conflict avoider I know it's just not that easy to be "as strict as we should be". I think it's more likely Suzet might think "oh please, please just go away" if OM stays around, rather than "hmm, how nice that he's still interested in me".

I have learned there is a middle way. It's not like we have to either be compliant or agressive when confronted with inappropriate behavior. We can remain neutral but FIRM.

The book "I'm OK, you're OK" by Thomas Harris was really helpful to me. It learns you how to deal with people that cross your boundaries without agression.

Suggestion on how to deal with this.
Example: OM comes into your office and starts to chit chat with you.
You (calmly): "I would like you to leave. I don't want to talk to you."
OM (very friendly): "Oh come on, that's all in the past isn't it? Your H is fine with it, he told me so."
You (calmly): "I know he told you that. But I don't want to talk to you. Please leave."
OM: (still very friendly): "Hey, I'm not going to make life difficult for you. Let's just be friends."
You (calmly): "I understand what you mean. But I don't want to talk to you. Please leave."
OM (changing subject): "Did you know X is getting married?"
You (calmly): "Please understand - I don't want to talk to you. Please leave."
OM (a little irritated now): "Why do you keep repeating that? We used to be such good friends. We could talk about anything."
You (calmly): "I hear what you're saying. And I don't want to talk to you."
OM (definitely irritated): "Is that how you treat your friends? After all the time I spent listening to your problems, and being there for you?"
You (calmly): "I hear what you're saying. And I don't want to talk to you."
OM (furious although keeping his voice down): "Oh, very well, if that's what you want! Is that really what you want? Really?"
You (calmly): "I don't want to talk to you."
OM (sighs): "OK, you can have what you want. I'll never talk to you again. I'll avoid talking to you whenever I meet you. (sarcastically) Now will that please you?"
You (calmly): "I hear what you're saying. And I don't want to talk to you."

My point is - some people will do anything to manipulate you to get what they want. They will smooth talk you - blame you - make you feel ridiculous - they will be angry - until they finally realise none of their "tacts" is going to get them what they want and give up.

A gentleman would have stayed far, far away from you and you wouldn't have had to ask him TWICE (two letters). So if you'll stick to the plan: remain calm, friendly, and keep repeating what it is YOU want until it gets through his thick skull... he WILL get it. He might not smile and understand, but he'll get it and leave you alone. Don't get angry, scared, annoyed, sad, and don't try to "justify" what it is you want. Just keep repeating it (with little variations <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) until he gets it...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by brownhair:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Octobergirl:
 [b....that this is still ok with you on some level since you were not as strict with him as you SHOULD have been.<hr /></blockquote>I dunno. Speaking as an ol'e conflict avoider I know it's just not that easy to be "as strict as we should be". I think it's more likely Suzet might think "oh please, please just go away" if OM stays around, rather than "hmm, how nice that he's still interested in me".<hr /></blockquote>Brownhair, you are right. When OM is around I indeed thinking, "oh please, please just go away" and I certainly donâ€™t like his â€˜attentionâ€™ as some people has suggested. To the contrary, I feel irritated and frustrated when he tries to chit chat with me and I feel upset about his disrespect towards me and his ignorance of my boundaries, but experience from the past and TWO NC letters have shown me he is a manipulative person with a thick skull who probably likes to get ANY type of reaction (even it itâ€™s negative). Thatâ€™s part of the reason me and my H has decided to act as neutral and indifferent as possible without making a fuss. You have given me a very good suggestion with your post. Thank you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Suzet:

So Dan is still hanging in there, good for him and his family.

You and your husband are a very attractive couple and you look like you belong together.

I enjoy your posts and your insite as a FWW.

TooSoon

Thanks for the compliment TooSoon and I'm glad my insight is helpful to you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings,
Suzet

Brownhair, you are right. When OM is around I indeed thinking, "oh please, please just go away" and I certainly donâ€™t like his â€˜attentionâ€™ as some people has suggested. To the contrary, I feel irritated and frustrated when he tries to chit chat with me and I feel upset about his disrespect towards me and his ignorance of my boundaries, but experience from the past and TWO NC letters have shown me he is a manipulative person with a thick skull who probably likes to get ANY type of reaction (even it itâ€™s negative). Thatâ€™s part of the reason me and my H has decided to act as neutral and indifferent as possible without making a fuss. You have given me a very good suggestion with your post. Thank you!

Stanley, please stop making false assumptions. Also stop making disrespectful judgements about FWS's in general. Your last statement was VERY disrespectful and insulting. You donâ€™t know me OR my H, so you canâ€™t speak for us and make your own wrong assumptions about how we feel or think. I understand you are a BS and still hurt, but it is not necessary to take your pain and anger out on me (or any other FWS for that matter) by making such statements. I can't help to wonder how your W will feel about your attitude...

Suzet:

It is not my intention to upset you--- trust me. You come accross as a very nice woman, no one disputes that. However, I want you to look inside you.

I donâ€™t think I can LB or DJ you since you are not my wife.

Let me ask you a question:

How would you feel if OM was 100% indifferent to you?

How would it feel to know that he has NO feelings for you at all?

Would your ego suffer (just a tiny bit) knowing that OM thinks nothing of you? That you meant absolutely nothing!

Would it bother you (just a tad) if OM developed a similar friendship with another worker?

Are you sure you do not like any attention from OM? Zero, zilch, nada!

Is there a little recess in your heart and soul that is gratified because OM or someone else is attracted to you?

Now be honest with yourself:

Are you still flattered that he has interest in you?

Lets be frank. The reason WWs do what they do is because they enjoy the attention. Are you telling me that is all gone? You donâ€™t enjoy attention anymore?

If you donâ€™t then you are the equivalent of Mr. Spock (Mrs. Spock) and have no feelings.

Just a few thoughts for brownhair and suzet:

BH,

After reading your post,I was a bit suprised.In your office scenario,look at all the dialogue that went on when suzet SHOULD have said,"Leave my office now or I will speak to the manager"(i.e. harassament).That's it.She gets up and leaves if he will not get the message.If suzet is thinking "Oh please go away" Why is she walking down the same hall with him? Why isn't this being nipped in the bud before he starts talking about the family vacations again?

Your scenario assumes he will give up.What's to stop him from intitiating things YET AGAIN,like now? It's practically unavoidable when you work in the same building which is why almost everyone here including Dr.Harley suggests fnding another job.This OM hasn't gotten it,not through 2 NC letters and certainly not now based on how suzet handled the previous meetings.It's interesting to me how we see this differently.

Suzet,

You can try to be neutral and even ignore this guy but he is clearly stepping over your boundaries and walking with him and even giving him your time of speech is what he is drawing on.He needs to be shut down,once and for all.The threat of harassment or whatever needs to be placed on him if he will most likely not stop.If this were any other lunatic in the office building would you not take action? But,since this is the OM I guess I don't agree with your current way of dealing with this.Nor your H's.If I were you I would be making a fuss to have this man out of my life FOREVER.But that's me.

Good luck to you.

O

edited for typos

[ January 19, 2005, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]

Stanley,

Any person on this planet with feelings enjoys attention from other people and any person with feelings would like to be â€˜likedâ€™ and loved by other people and be considered as a â€˜goodâ€™ and nice person... Same with me... Of course I enjoyed XOMâ€™s friendship during my involvement with him and of course it was flattering to me...no doubt about thatâ€¦ BUT, XOMâ€™s attention was inappropriate and unhealthy and caused me and my H a lot of pain, hurt and tears. I still like attentionâ€¦yesâ€¦but I seek appropriate and healthy attention from my family, husband and friends of the same sex nowâ€¦ I seek the type of attention which is good, positive and which help me to become a better person. Iâ€™m a changed person today Stanleyâ€¦Iâ€™m not the â€˜oldâ€™ person who had the EAâ€¦ And I have learned very hard lessons through my involvement with XOM. It took me 18 months to go through withdrawal and recover from residual feelings I had for XOMâ€¦ That was a very difficult and painful time for meâ€¦and because of that AND the pain my EA caused my H, I really have a negative connotation towards any â€˜attentionâ€™ from XOM nowâ€¦ I suffered from severe anxiety and depression because of my own wrong choices and actions and involvement with XOM... So seeing XOM and receiving â€˜attentionâ€™ from him will always reminds me of that dark period in my life. I don't want that back... Ever.

Hope this post could help to clarify things and give you some insight into the head of a FWW...

Blessings,
Suzet

[ January 19, 2005, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]

Stan, as a FORMER (I have finally earned that "F" in front of FWS), I feel the need to clarify a thing or two. And as a disclaimer, in no way am I speaking for Suzet or any other FWS or WS, for that matter.

Whether intentional or not, you are coming across as extremely disrespectful and insulting to me as one, as I said, that has finally earned my F and the distinction that I am 100% committed to rebuilding my M and in recovery.

For me, recovery is past all of the "feelings" as you imply. It's past the attempt for attention or escaping or whatever the "reason" for the A was for in the first place. It's past the cake-eating. It's all about my W and me and our M. Recovery has not a damn thing to do with the OP anymore.

IMHO, I think you are very confused over your definition of FWW and WW. In your first post to Suzet, you "labeled" her as a FWW still desiring the attention. Today you write:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Lets be frank. The reason WWs do what they do is because they enjoy the attention. Are you telling me that is all gone? You donâ€™t enjoy attention anymore?

If you donâ€™t then you are the equivalent of Mr. Spock (Mrs. Spock) and have no feelings.<hr /></blockquote>Stan, WW's are still involved in the A; FWW's are not. They are in recovery.

At this point in time, I could give a rat's [censored] at what the OW does. But there was a time when I still had feelings; then pity; then anger. Now? Indifference.

Again, I don't know where you and Myrta are in your recovery, but projecting/goading Suzet is insulting to me, as a FWS. Maybe you're trying to convince yourself that there is still the desire for attention.

Beam me up, Scotty.

Octobergirl - you'd be surprised how effective this is. There are a few conditions:
- you should remain calm (show no fear, anger, sadness, understanding - nothing)
- say that you "understand/hear what the other person is saying": this doesn't mean you AGREE with it, but it will keep them from thinking you simply didn't hear or understand them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
- keep repeating what you need to get across until they get it
- don't give in to ANY arguments and be prepared for the "worst" of manipulation - don't flinch
- imagine a couple of protectors/warriors by your side if that helps <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Advantages of this "tact":
- if you stay calm you'll be a lot more convincing than when you're upset
- such a strong stand is very discouraging to manipulating persons and yes, they WILL give up, I have seen it happen.

Octobergirl - saying "Leave my office now or I will speak to the manager"(i.e. harassament) can easily be seen as an "attack", and will lead to a power struggle.

Okkkk,I guess I'll have to take your word on that one BH. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I suppose we all have our own ways of dealing with certain people.I'm more of a strict disciplinarian.As if that hasn't come across here before. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

If I say stay away from me,no one dares to come near me again or they reap the wrath of octobergirl! lol

edited to add:

I didn't see your last post.I prefer the firm once should be enough approach when it comes to dealing with behavior.If I tell someone like a male co-worker,for example,that I do not appreciate being touched,it makes me uncomfortable,I expect to be taken seriously and my boundary respected.I would be upset if the man kept on doing it despite my requests.I just do not put up with repeated bad behavior.I do the same thing with my children.In a firm but very loving way,I tell them what is expected,like not playing ball in my living room(where I have breakables) and if they do it again,then they have to deal with the consequences.I just feel that suzet has given this OM more than enough notice to leave her alone yet he keeps coming back.She has been kind and calm but with some people you have to draw the line.This *I* have witnessed many times too.

[ January 19, 2005, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Octobergirl:
If I say stay away from me,no one dares to come near me again or they reap the wrath of octobergirl! lol <hr /></blockquote>Same here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .
I won't say it easily.. but if I do.. daggers will fly..
So it's better for the other(s) that I use the "broken record" technique <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Stan, WW's are still involved in the A; FWW's are not. They are in recovery.
<hr /></blockquote>They are in recovery--- from an addiction.

According to this site the affair was an addiction.

If you were an alcoholic in recovery? -------------- Would you go to a bar every night planning not to have a drink?

Do you think the urge to have a drink ever goes away if you are a recovered alcoholic?

Are you telling me that once the WW puts the F in front of the WW they never have a warm thought about OM?

Originally quoted by Stanley:

Are you telling me that once the WW puts the F in front of the WW they never have a warm thought about OM?

Lol, wouldn't remember the last time Stanley. And if I did during the withdrawal process, so what? It's a PROCESS, remember? Don't blow your own recovery by focusing on the OM, forget the dude. Does it ever occur to BSs that the more they bring OPs up in any way shape or form, they're actually jogging the FWS or WSs memory unneccesarily? If all convo is negative, the FWS or WS may even end up defending the OP, all brought on by the BSs obsession with the OP. FORGET THE OP. Work on the marriage, the A is over and in Suzet's case, long over and done with.

I know your point is that Suzet could be tempted but Suzet's H is comfortable with the way she is conducting herself. If she gets something out of the posts on how to ditch the guy, great! Not every situation requires extreme measures, this may be one. I'm on record for being firm on the neccesity for NC but I'm not going to hold Suzet and her H to that if their POJA is intact on the issue.

To me this thread really should be focused more on how to understand personal boundaries and how to maintain those boundaries rather than Suzet having to defend her POJA with her husband and the lack of feelings towards an invasive OM.

Indifference towards the OP is what you're hearing from Suzette, her H, LINY and me. Indifference, Stanley. That didn't happen overnight but it happened. Warm thoughts don't continue forever obviously, don't make an issue of it. Things change and Suzet, good job with honesty on your part. KB

Gulp!

Great post!

CIAO!

Couldn't have said it better, kb. Thanks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Knewbetter, I agreeâ€¦ and also couldnâ€™t have said it better myselfâ€¦ Thanks for your great post and thanks for you contribution to this thread! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Stanley, itâ€™s interesting that you tried to asked me all types of â€˜toughâ€™ questions yesterday, but that you didnâ€™t respond after I tried to honestly answer you as a recovered, FORMER WWâ€¦ Anyway, I do hope my post could help to give you some insight and new perspective.

Blessings,
Suzet

First...for the "squabbling ones"......

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

Just how is bickering and misunderstanding helpful to the poster of the thread. Sometimes, it might be more helpful to simply "hold thy tongue" and let others respond.

Suzet - You had an EA and so did the OM. You are correct that for most men, SEX in an affair is the more difficult to "get over." For most women, the "emotional attachment, the 'did you tell her that you loved her?' is the harder part to deal with.

As such, your husband has forgiven you and has probably rationalized in his mind that "nothing too serious happened because there was no sex."

Add to that the economic necessity of "making a buck," especially since he's just starting up a new business, and he is able to justify in his mind that the OM is "just another customer." Therefore he CAN sell him something and establish an ongoing business relationship because, after all, you need to make money so you can eat.

Suzet, "no contact" applies to both the WS and the BS. In my humble opinion, your husband should have directed the OM to someone else to purchase a computer from and accepted that the OM was not going to be allowed "into you lives" just for the sake of money. No contact REQUIRES sacrifice on the part of both of you.

Now, as for the OM who doesn't seem to "get it," or who is deliberately trying to stay involved in your life for "who knows what possible future involvement," you work at the same place and are in position where some contact is likely to occur. Thus, when it happens(not IF it happens), keep it completely business. Any questions about anything personal, your husbands case, etc. is met with a simple, "That's none of your business." Every time he attempts, you counter.

What makes you think that the OM is over HIS EA with you? Perhaps it's just more of "biding his time." Perhaps it's the thrill of the "hunt." Perhaps he's just really just a immature jerk.

As for your husband, should the OM want another computer, the OM should be told to purchase it somewhere else. By selling him the first one, your husband has given the OM the right to remain in contact regarding anything to do with the item that was sold to him.

Bottom line: No Contact period. Unless the OM is a believer, has confessed to God and sought God's forgiveness, your forgiveness, and your husband's forgiveness for his part of the adultery, there is to be NO contact with him that is not unavoidable. IF he did confess and seek forgiveness, he should be forgiven, but NOT allowed back into your lives to avoid any future temptation for you or for him.

God bless.

edited to add this P.S.;

Was your husband the only person in town that the OM could have purchased a computer from? If not, just why do you suppose the OM chose to buy from your husband? To "help out" financially? 30 pieces of silver comes to mind. So does scheming and deliberate infiltration into your lives.

[ January 20, 2005, 07:24 AM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]

Any person on this planet with feelings enjoys attention from other people and any person with feelings would like to be â€˜likedâ€™ and loved by other people and be considered as a â€˜goodâ€™ and nice person... Same with me... Of course I enjoyed XOMâ€™s friendship during my involvement with him and of course it was flattering to me...no doubt about thatâ€¦

The desire for attention is usually quite high in those who are prone to have affairs. I have not seen one yet who did not enjoy the attention to a high degree. I am once again reminded of the recovered alcoholic who will always have the desire for a drink. Why would he or she go to a bar?

It took me 18 months to go through withdrawal and recover from residual feelings I had for XOMâ€¦ That was a very difficult and painful time for meâ€¦

Suzet, that is a long withdrawal for a so called superficial near EA friendship. If the withdrawal was SO HARD on you why do you put yourself in a position where you may see OM regularly? I think your H is underestimating the event because there was no SF. This may come back to bite him in 10-15 years. I have made the same mistake---- trust me.

I suffered from severe anxiety and depression because of my own wrong choices and actions and involvement with XOM... So seeing XOM and receiving â€˜attentionâ€™ from him will always reminds me of that dark period in my life. I don't want that back... Ever.

Famous last words. I can speak from personal experience----- I heard that before. The best thing is to stay awake----- do not tempt the devil.

LINX:

Is the affair an addiction?

Yes or no

Forevers, thanks for your post. You have always been very helpful to me and I put high value on your opinions and advice.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />What makes you think that the OM is over HIS EA with you? Perhaps it's just more of "biding his time." Perhaps it's the thrill of the "hunt." Perhaps he's just really just an immature jerk.<hr /></blockquote>FH, I canâ€™t really tell if OM is â€˜overâ€™ his EA with me. I know that OM never viewed our involvement as anything more than just a â€˜close friendshipâ€™ â€“ probably because there were never any hugs, kisses, gifts, declarations of love, future talks, marriage talk about our spouses etc. involved. Probably OM still thinks he can try to have contact with me because, in HIS mind, â€˜nothing serious happened between usâ€™â€¦ Or maybe OM IS just an immature, manipulative jerk who canâ€™t respect other peopleâ€™s boundaries. I honestly donâ€™t know and I really don't care anymore.
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Unless the OM is a believer, has confessed to God and sought God's forgiveness, your forgiveness, and your husband's forgiveness for his part of the adultery, there is to be NO contact with him that is not unavoidable. IF he did confess and seek forgiveness, he should be forgiven, but NOT allowed back into your lives to avoid any future temptation for you or for him.<hr /></blockquote>OM has always referred to himself as a believer and Christian, but as you know, there are MANY people in this world who advocate Christianity, but doesnâ€™t show or practise true Christianity in their own life, attitudes and behavior... OM has apologized to me and seek forgiveness for the pain an damage he caused me and my H, but he NEVER apologized to my H personally OR seek forgiveness from my H personallyâ€¦
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Was your husband the only person in town that the OM could have purchased a computer from? If not, just why do you suppose the OM chose to buy from your husband? To "help out" financially?<hr /></blockquote>FH, I donâ€™t know what OMâ€™s true intention was with this... There are a few other computer companies in the town we are living in, but they donâ€™t sell second hand computers and second hand parts of computers OM was interested in. OM knows my H sells first AND second hand computers/computer parts and he was specifically looking for a second hand computer. He also knows my H are an IT specialist who can help with software, installing etc.

Blessings,
Suzet

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Suzet, that is a long withdrawal for a so called superficial near EA friendship. <hr /></blockquote>Stanley, my withdrawal period was so long for very private and personal reasons I donâ€™t have the time to go into now... If you ARE however interested in WHY my withdrawal was so unusually long for such a EA friendship and why my recovery was so hard, then you can do a search on my previous posts and read up on it.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />If the withdrawal was SO HARD on you why do you put yourself in a position where you may see OM regularly?<hr /></blockquote>You say I put MYSELF in a position where I may see OM regularly??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> What on earth has caused you to make this wrong assumption??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> If youâ€™re referring to the fact that I still work at the same company, then please read my post to Susan on the 1st page of this thread. Please don't pass judgements if you don't know the full story and don't have the proper background.

Suzet

<blockquote>quote:<hr />FH, I canâ€™t really tell if OM is â€˜overâ€™ his EA with me. I know that OM never viewed our involvement as anything more than just a â€˜close friendshipâ€™ â€“ probably because there were never any hugs, kisses, gifts, declarations of love, future talks, marriage talk about our spouses etc. involved. Probably OM still thinks he can try to have contact with me because, in HIS mind, â€˜nothing serious happened between usâ€™â€¦ Or maybe OM IS just an immature, manipulative jerk who canâ€™t respect other peopleâ€™s boundaries. I honestly donâ€™t know and I really don't care anymore. <hr /></blockquote>Okay, Suzet, let's take this at face value then.

For whatever reason, the "EA" was all yours and only in your mind. The OM never "connected" beyond friendship in his mind. Your husband considers the case "closed."

That leaves YOU. So the problem would seem to still be "between your ears." YOU, for whatever reason, believe that there WAS an affair even if you were the only one feeling that way. YOU need to have separation, no contact, with the OM for YOUR benefit. That's okay. No other reason is needed other than YOU perceive continuing contact to be a problem.

So, we are back to conversations that might occur as "strictly business." YOU have to enforce your own standard of No Contact as best the circumstances will allow.

Your husband doesn't seem to have any problem with the OM as a client, and it really doesn't matter if your husband's business is the "only one in town" that the OM could get the system or parts from. If your husband is "supposed" to "protect you" as part of his role as your husband, and if any such business contact would be a potential problem for you, then your husband should decline to work with the OM simply out of respect for you and a desire to help you "get over" the past. The OM can go elsewhere to get his parts.

Regardless, Suzet, I believe that you are "sensitized" to affairs and the "early warning signs" now. If YOU perceived anything getting beyond mere polite conversation, I think you would throw out the "anchor" extremely fast.

So what you are most likely doing is simply tormenting yourself right now. "Bad girl...can't do anything....can't let OM say anything or [b][/b]* I * might slip into another affair!"

Rubbish. Suzet, you need to understand that you are most likely already Recovered. But you may not want to accept that yet....perhaps because in your mind you think you still need to be watched and punished. God doesn't think so. Apparantly your husband doesn't think so. Christ died so you wouldn't have to be.

Sounds to me like you need to say "thank you" and simply accept the gift you've been given.

God bless.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />First...for the "squabbling ones"......

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

Just how is bickering and misunderstanding helpful to the poster of the thread. Sometimes, it might be more helpful to simply "hold thy tongue" and let others respond.<hr /></blockquote>I can safely assume this was directed at me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

First, I do not post anymore without: some personal insight and experience; and the original post/poster in mind.

Second, not sure how you don't think I did *not* have suzet in mind? (Even if this were not the case, how many times have the posters of a thread gone "off track" and you have not gained some insight or knowledge from that? I don't believe this was the case, but if it were, I apologize.)

Third, if it were not for the plank in my eye, I would not be able to see the sawdust in another's. That "plank" will forever be a part of my past, can't be surgically removed--the reason why all of us are on MB, right? But it's not defining me...and makes me, with the "plank" more aware of sawdust in people's eyes--something that can be removed.

Fourth, this is not a forum where personal attacks are in line. If it is something I can "defend" I will. Not through a counterattack, but the attempt to have the attacker understand.

I'm glad you have given the insight to suzet as you have done--it also gave me some understanding as well.

Stan--yes, an A is an addiction. If what you are getting at is, then as a recovering addict, why is she tempting fate and exposing herself to the addiction? Then, suzet has already answered that. As I am in a very similar situation as suzet, I have too, but would certainly be willing to "discuss" it further--just not on suzet's thread anymore.

Blessings,
LINY

LINY,

Hey, I thought maybe this was in reference to me and Bob....could've been, easily. Anyway, I think we stopped the quarreling. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Funny, huh NOW? See? Without even realizing it, I think I just supported my point: it's all in the perception--I perceived it was directed at me, you, to you and Bob. But either way, I think a lot can be gained from any of the posts on here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Singling no one out, just making a general comment that all of us, including myself, need to think about from time to time.

OTOH, I guess how something is received is all in the eye of the beholder. Sort of like "if the shoe fits, wear it."

So I guess if someone "identifies" themselves with a comment, then perhaps self-examination is warranted to either accept or reject the perception.

Too much philosophy is giving me a headache. Time to shut up and let things lay. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

LINY,

COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOW

Singling no one out, just making a general comment that all of us, including myself, need to think about from time to time.

OTOH, I guess how something is received is all in the eye of the beholder. Sort of like "if the shoe fits, wear it."

So I guess if someone "identifies" themselves with a comment, then perhaps self-examination is warranted to either accept or reject the perception.

Too much philosophy is giving me a headache. Time to shut up and let things lay. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Forever,

Gives me a headache to think about, too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Oh how I wish things weren't so "complicated".

NOW

Sorry, double post.

[ January 21, 2005, 01:43 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]

ForeverHers â€“

Thanks so much for you insight â€“ it was very helpful. Many of the things you said really hit true with me, but I will comment on that in a minute.

Before I go further, there is something I need to add to my post of yesterday to give you the FULL picture:

Although OM never viewed our involvement as more than friendship (probably because of the reasons I have given in my post yesterday) he did admit on one point that he developed some feelings for me. However, he never elaborated on this and I never comment on it. Then again, after our friendship ended and after Iâ€™ve made it clear to him that there need to be NC between us, OM admitted that he realized we unconsciously developed a strong â€˜bondâ€™ between us and that itâ€™s best to keep our distance from each other. He promised not to contact me deliberately, to keep to formal greetings during accidental contacts and that he would not try to chat with me during these accidental contacts. Well, he kept his promise for many months and now, after some time have passed, I get the feeling that he thinks enough time have passed to get â€˜overâ€™ each other and that itâ€™s okay to have casual talks with me again during these contacts. Of course Iâ€™ve meant my boundary of NC and NO casual talks to be a PERMANENT, but it appear OM doesnâ€™t respect it or doesn't understand this to be a PERMANENT condition... FH, I understand that I have to enforce my own standard of No Contact as best the circumstances will allow.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Regardless, Suzet, I believe that you are "sensitized" to affairs and the "early warning signs" now. If YOU perceived anything getting beyond mere polite conversation, I think you would throw out the "anchor" extremely fast.<hr /></blockquote>Yes FH, you are correct on your observation about meâ€¦ Sometimes I wonder if Iâ€™m not overly sensitive now, in such a way that (as youâ€™ve suggested), Iâ€™m still tormenting myself in some ways and over reacting on certain things.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />So what you are most likely doing is simply tormenting yourself right now. "Bad girl...can't do anything....can't let OM say anything or [b][/b]* I * might slip into another affair!"

Rubbish. Suzet, you need to understand that you are most likely already Recovered. But you may not want to accept that yet....perhaps because in your mind you think you still need to be watched and punished. God doesn't think so. Apparantly your husband doesn't think so. Christ died so you wouldn't have to be.<hr /></blockquote>Thanks for this FHâ€¦ You gave me something to consider and think aboutâ€¦ In a way, I do feel guilty about the fact that I allowed OM to even talk with me. I know my H is okay with the way I handled this, but deep down Iâ€™m not completely okay with myself... I think this is part of the reason I started this thread in the first place...

FH, thanks for you time and understandingâ€¦ Thanks for not judging and criticizing me but in stead trying to help me and give me insightâ€¦ May God bless you for that FH. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Suzet

[ January 21, 2005, 01:58 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]

Suzet*

I TRIED to not contribute again but I feel compelled to.

You said to FH Thanks for not judging and criticizing me but in stead trying to help me and give me insightâ€¦

Almost everyone who responded to you (IMO) tried to help and give you insight, but the only ones you seemed to appreciate were the posters who said you did nothing incorrectly. You appear to be very defensive of any criticism at all.

In truth Suzet* it seems to me that neither OM nor your lovely H think your near-EA with OM remains a persistent threat to your M. Only you know if this is true or not and can act accordingly.

Your sit is so unique ( I know no other like it on here certainly!) that only YOU can make and impose NC rules that work for you.

All blessings Suzet, your recovery seems to be going really well !!

Thanks for your post and blessings Bob! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I just want to make it clear that I didnâ€™t post that sentence to FH in reference to any other poster who responded on my thread. FH really seem to have understanding for the issues of self-worth I still struggle with sometimes and which have a influence on how I react and feel about certain things.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Almost everyone who responded to you (IMO) tried to help and give you insight, but the only ones you seemed to appreciate were the posters who said you did nothing incorrectly.<hr /></blockquote>This is not true Bobâ€¦ If you read the posts of FH very closely you will see he ALSO donâ€™t approve any casual contact and/or casual conversations with OM and advised me to reinforce my boundaries when necessaryâ€¦ The only poster whose posts I didnâ€™t appreciate was those of Stanely since he has made some very sarcastic remarks, disrespectful judgments towards me (and other FWSâ€™s in general) and false assumptions and accusations. I also appreciate your posts Bob and I understand where youâ€™re coming from. As Iâ€™ve said before, I have great respect and admiration for youâ€¦I just donâ€™t feel there is something wrong in explaining and/or defending myself if I feel the need toâ€¦

Blessings to you too, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Suzet

[ January 21, 2005, 05:00 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]

Bob, on Friday you said the following to me on your other thread:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />I realised rereading this morning that you situation is unique here on MB, and consequently only you can decide what is an appropriate response.<hr /></blockquote>Bob, I donâ€™t know if I really view my situation as unique because most Aâ€™s start out as a platonic friendship like mine and then progress and develop from thereâ€¦ I think I was just very lucky in the sense that I had the chance to stop my involvement with XOM before it progressed to a full EA. You know, after my experience I can understand how easily people can slip into Aâ€™s if not very cautious and careful... If I can explain: Although my involvement havenâ€™t yet progressed to a serious level, the feelings I developed (even sexual feelings) were extremely intenseâ€¦ So intense that it scared meâ€¦ And because of this I can also have empathy for the weaknesses of people who get caught up in PAâ€™s. From my own experience I know how hard it is and how much willpower it take NOT to act on those feelingsâ€¦ I was lucky that certain internal factors (like my anxiousness, fear and sexual child abuse) helped preventing me from acting on those feelings... I'm not sure Bob, but I think part of Satanâ€™s strategy is to use these inappropriate feelings people often develop for a member of the opposite sex to cause them to stray. And I think during infidelity these type of feelings are intensified to the 100th powerâ€¦

Itâ€™s sad that so many people are hurt and devastated by infidelity and betrayal, but reading success stories like yours and other here on MBâ€™ers makes me realize there is ALWAYS hope! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Take care and God bless, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Suzet

[ January 24, 2005, 03:22 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]