Reasons for BS's Questions - Marriage Builders® Forums

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I wanted to know why BS's want to know EVERYTHING about the A. I don't want to hide anything and I am not looking for a way out. I just want to understand this better.

What is the reasoning for asking extremely probing questions about the A. I find it very difficult to answer the questions for a number of reasons. It is a topic I am ashamed of. I have grown and made fundamental changes in who I am, and at the very least am no longer addicted, so I have a different frame of mind now than I did then. That makes answering the questions difficult because I will be honest about it, but I want to make sure the things I say are not misunderstood and that they are truly how I felt at the time. Or truly what was going on at the time. But to make the destinction that I don't feel that way now. Yes I remember I had an A. I won't try to fool anyone and say I don't remember it, but there are a large number of details that I just can't recall. Small details(seemingly to me) like "when you two talked what did you talk about?" Somethings we talked about I remember the topic.... but I can't even begin to remember exact wording of the conversation. Sometimes I can't even remember if we talked about certain topics. Some I can. Also... as I said, a different frame of mind and priority set seem to cloud this issue in my mind as well, even though I still have lots of changing/fixing to do.

First and foremost, I have to be honest when I am asked questions. I did not do that soon after Dday and I have paid for that. I have learned that it is just better to put it out there. I agree with the radical honesty idea, so if she asks questions, I am obliged to answer them.

But does there ever come a point in time where a BS feels that they have heard enough? The stuff is difficult for me to discuss and I am not the BS. It must be nuclear destruction to the BS. The recapping of feelings, happenings and such. It really feels sometimes like the more we talk about the past, the more we are living in it... and the more opportunity it will have to destroy us further.

Another complication is that there are things I don't remember about the A. I feel like I remember the key high-level stuff, but even though I was there... lots of details are just no longer in my mind. The more I don't remember, the more I am a "liar" it seems.

I want to understand this better beyond the sub-portion of radical honesty that covers "Honesty about the Past" because this is destuctive stuff. Can a BS simply ask the questions to gather up enough "ammo" to justify breaking a promise of commitment? Like gossip and judging. Can a BS ask questions and ever get to the point that they are satisfied they know enough? Not that I mean to use the "I forget" as an excuse, but lets be real... who remembers the minute to minute details of a day 2 weeks ago, much less 6 months ago? I don't. If that is a memory failing on my part, then I need to get that looked into. I assumed that lots of people forgot lot of small details. I heard the joke one time that Instant Replay was made for men, because they forgot something they just saw. Sometimes, that joke doesn't seem that far off. Can a BS just want a way out of the relationship and know you are forgetful and use that against you as justification? "You forget everything you big liar .... I can't deal with this.. I quit." Maybe some BSs think WSs are getting what they deserved, but are they? Once a WS repents and turns away from the sin, are they still justified victims of a BSs wrath? Is it appropriate anyway? Just because someone wrongs you .... does that make it right to wrong them? I mean intentionally harm them. Again, this leads me back to the teenager excuse of "well, they did it" Is that really justification? I find it hard to believe God would come down to kill a murderer, using the excuse of "well... they did it" I am sure this argument has more credibility if I am not the WS... but I have been betrayed before. By someone I loved. I didn't plot anything against them then. I don't know... just a difficult situation all around.

I just want to feel safe with the painful discussions and find out what is normal, so that I don't feel so abnormal. Whatever Froz needs, I want to provide.... but if she asked me to shoot her, I would not do it. I love her and would do anything for her she asked... but I wouldn't do that. Does that mean I am "making the decision for her" I realize shooting someone and telling all about an A are not the same things. They sure feel close sometimes.

Patriot,

As a BW, its hard to understand why your spouse went out and sought the affection of someone else. So we want to understand 100%. We gave a vow on our wedding day to love and be honest and truthful till death. But the WS's didn't do that. They broke that special bond. Yes, its hard to hear some of the details from the WS about the A but its something that I know for me was PINING (spelling?) inside me. I wanted to see if I could put two and two together and understand why. Plus we want to know the details about OW and WHY you felt she should be put BEFORE THEIR WIVES? What made her so special? What made her this? What made her that? Did you buy her flowers? Did you do this? Its important to know because we don't understand. We are trying to find the truth and it helps us understand. I didn't ask too many ?'s about the A because I didn't really want to know about somethings BUT everyone is different. It is OUR 100% right to ask every and all ?'s to the US because they are the ones that step out of bounds!
Hope that helps!

Patriot-

My WH had an affair before his current affair...it was 6 years ago, obviously we repaired NOTHING or I wouldn't be in this situation again.

The reason the BS has to ask all those probing questions is we have to know. It is all consuming, when you go to McDonalds you're sitting there eating fries and then you think "Did he eat fries with that b*tch?" Seriously....it's that bad. I barraged my WH with questions about the affair, I'd say stuff like "How'd she like that tattoo of my name on your shoulder?" He'd say, " don't think she even saw it." I wanted to know EVERY GORY DETAIL....even about the sex, right down to the positions and all of that, let me tell you that you and the OW have done NOTHING that is worse than Froz is imagining in her own mind. Answer every question she asks, she needs to know...it plagues the BS. Believe that it's no fun for her either, but she can't stop thinking about it, will it die down eventually YES....but you prolonged it by lying and sugarcoating things...now she doesn't know what's a lie and what's the truth from you anymore.

So answer every question 100% truthfully....'cuz she's going to remember every answer you've given her, and if the story changes the next time she asks the same question (And she will ask the same question over again).....guess what....you're back to square one.

You appear to think that you are being treated unfairly, that she's asking things that are above and beyond what is called for.....this isn't the case. I don't care what she asks you. If she asks you if you bought her a birthday present...tell her, if the OW bought you anything and she wants to know...I don't care if she bought you a rolex and you love it.....if she bought it for you, you tell her, and then fully expect her to smash the hell out of it with a hammer.

I wouldn't even let him wear the type of cologne that the OW bought him.....I got rid of the bottle he had and would never let him wear it again.....it's a trigger.

(I am speaking of OW#1)

There are a million things I am already thinking about that I will destroy when we reconcile. He's got a black watch that I think she bought him, he told me his Mom bought it for him....bet he tells her his Mom bought him the cologne I got him for Christmas. Guess who's asking his Mom what she bought him for Christmas.

She needs to know, because she is making up things in her mind that she thinks you two have done together, or she's remembering a time you said you had to go to the carwash, and she's wondering if that's really where you were.......she isn't sure of anything anymore, you've taken that away....now you have to regain her trust, and the only way you can do that is by answering every question truthfully from this day forward.

-Caren

[ February 19, 2005, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: CarenMc ]

What is the reasoning for asking extremely probing questions about the A. I find it very difficult to answer the questions for a number of reasons. It is a topic I am ashamed of

Every BS is different, we want answers for different reasons. For myself I wanted answers so that everything was open, and so I could decide what to do (rebuild or walk) with all the fact.
Also because if secrets were kept I felt it would have been H protecting ow and the A. Bottom line I deserved to know. H had to respect ME enough to tell me the truth if he wanted me to stay.

But does there ever come a point in time where a BS feels that they have heard enough? The stuff is difficult for me to discuss and I am not the BS. It must be nuclear destruction to the BS. The recapping of feelings, happenings and such. It really feels sometimes like the more we talk about the past, the more we are living in it... and the more opportunity it will have to destroy us further.

Not to be ugly but, It isn't about YOU, the A was about you, this is about BS and what she needs. My H and I are 6 years past the last A, healing takes time. You MUST accept that if you hope to rebuild. Soooooo many times I see WS who want to just let it go, put the A in the past and move on. This is a good idea and will happen WITH TIME ! Until the time comes when your wife is healed the A is there and must be dealt with. Here is a little gem you are not going to like, it (the A) is never going away, it can be forgiven with work and time but it is now a part of your and W's history. Sorry but that's how it is. You can't undo it.

Another complication is that there are things I don't remember about the A. I feel like I remember the key high-level stuff, but even though I was there... lots of details are just no longer in my mind. The more I don't remember, the more I am a "liar" it seems.

This one is just odd to me. I'm sorry but I (and I think most women) remember our relationships. I bet you a dollar ow in your case remembers EVERYTHING about the A. It makes no sense for someone not to remember the details of something they risked so much (their marriage) for.

I have to tell you that you OWE your W any and every bit of information she asks for, she needs this and it is your place to give her the information. Not doing so is going to cause only more pain and make her wonder if you are protecting ow (not acceptable) yourself (not acceptable, you played the game so trying to protect your rear from the conciquences is hooey now).

I just want to feel safe with the painful discussions and find out what is normal, so that I don't feel so abnormal. Whatever Froz needs, I want to provide.... but if she asked me to shoot her, I would not do it. I love her and would do anything for her she asked... but I wouldn't do that. Does that mean I am "making the decision for her" I realize shooting someone and telling all about an A are not the same things. They sure feel close sometimes.

This is almost funny to me, because I told H it would have been kinder for him to have shot me than to have done that (have the last A). I know you want/need to feel safe but your W isn't going to feel safe for a long time. How long is up to you in some ways. The longer she has to pull details from you the longer it will take her to heal. There are no guarentees with this stuff. No set number of days until she will be better.

Let me ask you, when you had the A what did you think would happen when/if your W found out ? Did the thought of what would happen ever cross your mind ?

I hate to say this but the rules have changed now, give your wife what she needs. If you don't you may lose her.

The BS asks all these questions because it is pertinent information about her life. See, this is HER LIFE too and you conducted this affair in secret and withheld the facts from her. Now, in order for her to understand it and put it all in proper perspective, she must have all the facts.

And this is the KEY: in order for her to ever trust you again, there must not be any secrets between you and the OW. Your W must know even MORE than the OW about the affair in order for her to feel safe.

If you withhold anything, that means the OW, the enemy of your marriage, knows MORE than your OWN WIFE. See what I mean? And as long as the OW knows MORE, then trust can never be regained.

Just your willingness to answer each and every question fully and honestly [not like a hostile defense witness] will go a long way in reestablising trust.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />It must be nuclear destruction to the BS. The recapping of feelings, happenings and such. It really feels sometimes like the more we talk about the past, the more we are living in it... and the more opportunity it will have to destroy us further.
<hr /></blockquote>This is where you are wrong. The truth is not destructive, it is healing. Affairs and lying are destructive.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Once a WS repents and turns away from the sin, are they still justified victims of a BSs wrath? Is it appropriate anyway?<hr /></blockquote>You are the victim? Wow! What an odd thing to say. And of course she will feel wrath, she would not be normal if she did not. She has experienced the greatest betrayal a spouse can commit. She is, after all, the REAL "victim" here.

[ February 19, 2005, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]

Patriot, it's sorta funny and I don't mean this disrespectfully but I can see EXACTLY where you are in your stage of recovery. Very, very early.

Take it from me, a completely recovered FWW - if the BS wants to know ANYTHING and everything you need to tell them. It doesn't hurt them - well, it does - but it's better than not knowing. Whole pieces of their lives are missing - you know the truth but they don't and they just want to make sense of it all.

The other thing you mentioned in another post was trust. I just don't get why a FWS (and I am one) would not do everything, absolutely everything to prove they are trustworthy. OK, so you feel like you're being checked up on - so what. My life and everything I do is STILL an open book to my H and it was from the first day after d-day.

I can imagine the shock to the BS, knowing the person they live with can carry on another life in secret. It's soul destroying. Building up trust again is the least thing you can do for your BS.

Jen

she also probably wants to feel there are no secrets left between ow and you. when there are gaps in the story thats what it seems like, like you are still keeping your wife out of the secret you had with ow.

another thing you can do is when you do remember something you know you didnt tell her....YOU BRING IT UP! go to her and say, ive thought of something you should know and i was wondering if you wanted to talk about it now or later? it will show her that you are putting her first---not your discomfort or your feelings but hers. that is HUGE!

as far as if she will use it against you or not---well that really is a decision for her. but she has the right to know her own history---and it is her history too. if she leaves or stays is solely up to her---that shouldnt waiver your want to do what is right.

and have some faith we are working with her too... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

the truth sets you free.....

as caren points out our imaginations can be terrifying empty space fillers that we can fill with all kinds of stuff....

that what we imagine can in and of itself become more terrifying and more damaging than what really occured...

Also the one huge factor that a BS is the loss of spouse as a protector....

spouses are and should be protective/protectors of the other...

caretakers ...

WS and OP have the one weapon that hurts BS deeply...
full disclosure of the truth...

each encounter with an OP....is a direct attack on the BS stableness and place in this universe...

it is literrally time and energy and emotion stolen from them...

each encounter pretty much sets up the BS to be the enemy...they are the one constant factor that keeps the WS and OP from being the "true relationship"
and they are present like a ghost in each interaction.....and yet they don't even know they are there....

so whether or not the contact between the OP and WS was physical...mundane...romantic...confrontational or anything else...it was all stolen from the BS....

each encounter used deception
each encounter no matter the interaction was grossly disrespectful to the BS...

and the BS is grappling with trying to understand how the person who stood to protect them...could and would do this....

and how to believe the person standing in front of them.....is really a person they know at all...

Can a BS simply ask the questions to gather up enough "ammo" to justify breaking a promise of commitment? Like gossip and judging.

these three things are not even close to synnonomous....
gossiping is not defined as speaking the truth to the one involved.....
and judging is not a bad thing...it is the reality of our actions that do and or have defined us.......

once an affair is disclosed the BS already has enough 'ammo' to see that a promise or commitment has already been broken..and certainly not by them.......and they have all the right in the world to make informed decisions...

lots of BS walk the moment they find out and never look back....and no one can fault them for that ......

ARK

Patriot,

There is an article on this site that deals with this [sorry..can't link for ya] and several excellent threads to boot..but I'll give you the thumbnail sketch as it has been from my experience.

First of all..you have the dubious luxury of having been one of the participants..which means that you have a 100% accurate and complete picture of what took place, how it took place, what you felt during and later about it taking place. Mere words are inadequate to describe this even with your best efforts and natural gift for articulate expression. You will never be able to satisfy what she is looking for..however..that doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

Now..about finding justification..abandon that. That's fear talking..I've got news for you..she doesn't need any more justification than she already has. She is trying to reconcile the past..trying to integrate into herself what you have been hiding from her. She isn't looking for a reason to go..she is begging for a reason to stay..that reason right now is probably your willingness to humiliate yourself with 100% honesty despite your shame and discomfort. That's a mark in the plus column. When you have done it over and over until even YOU are bored with your affair..yet continue to answer as she asks..that's another big contribution.

It kills me that my husband has shared what belongs to me with another woman. I hate that THEY have intimacy from which I am excluded. The idea that a significant look could pass between them and have meaning could literally send me into a fugue.

I want it ALL. All the of intimacy..everything..so that nothing between he and OW is a secret or even intimate by way of being unexposed any longer. Every facial expression that they witnessed during orgasm..every small touch..or discussion is an absolute afront to my ability to even DESIRE my H any longer..so while it is painfull to discover these things..it isn't the knowledge that it hurtfull..it is the reality.

By asking you these questions..Froz isn't asking you to shoot her..she is pulling the trigger herself. Deciding for herself what she wants to know and when. What she does with that info is her business. Sort of puts you on the other end, no?

That's the poetic justice of recovery..in a great many ways you WILL experience some of what your wife has..because during the affair..you held all of the cards..now you have one..and that one is only the ability to walk away yourself. You have humiliated her..now you will yourself be humiliated. You have abused your power..now you will be at the mercy of the one you mistreated. You have traded places with regard to POWER and equity. This will sort itself out as well as recovery progresses..I don't know many who can stand to live long term with someone who is not their equal.

Let's not forget either..that which is unspoken is much feared..bringing the A into the light..rubbing that nerve over and over until it is numb..is a VERY viable method of dealing with pain and fear. Speak of it again and again untill it no longer has any hold on you [not to be confused with dwelling and obsessing..which will be her choice and ot something you have any control over]. It's a beautifull pain, really..if there ever can be such a thing. It's a pain that has an agenda.

Noodle

Noodle your post is perfect. Just perfect. I need add nothing.

I'd like my WH to tell me EVERYTHING. Will it hurt? Yes! Will I use the info against him? Maybe. Will it speed the healing process? YES, YES, YES! Will it help develop trust! Oh, yeah!

You probably don't remember things from being in the fog. BS need the details to flesh out, understand and kinda be a part of the relationship. When you withhold information, it feels like untruthfulness. Are you protecting yourself or her? Part of the process is making you face what you did. Making you naked to the world. Then BS starts putting the clothes on you again.

Ignorance is not bless.

Patriot 92:

First, happy that you are at least here and asking the right type of questions <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> ... instead of following your instincts and just leaving your BS to fend for herself.

Next, This letter has been referred to on here many, many times.
As you are fairly new, you may have never read or even seen it.
Although Not all inclusive, it comes as close as any to giving the "reasons" a BS NEEDS answers.
Hope it gives you some insight.

*************************************************

Joseph's Letter

I want to share a beautiful example of a letter one man wrote in his effort to get his wife to answer his questions.

To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

Now let's enter MY reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is will affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you.

So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete.

You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important.

Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so?

Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely?
But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together.

It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons?
Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world".

end of Joseph's Letter

*****************************************************

Why the spouse wants to talk and get answers

--If you have no opportunity to get information to try to "make sense" of something that has turned your life upside down, you have no way of getting beyond it.
--If someone knows something you want to know (but won't tell you), it makes you feel like a child, creating an imbalance of power with no sense of fairness or equality in the relationship.
--If you can't trust your spouse to be honest about the past, how can you trust they'll be honest in the future.
--"Not knowing" is worse than any particular factsâ€”because the imagination is worst of all.
--The willingness to answer questions shows a commitment to doing what's necessary to rebuild trust. >> ***This WILLINGNESS is even more important than the answers per se. ***<<

It's reasonable to want answers

The bottom line is that it's perfectly reasonable for a person to want to talk and get answers to their questions. Each person needs to decide for themselves the timing of when/what/how much they want to know ...and no one should be forced to hear things they don't want to hear, but if they DO Want to hear details, they deserve to have their questions answered.

Wishing you Both success on your journey! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you to everyone for each of your replies. The Joseph letter was especially insightful.

Patriot, that is where this board is so special.

I feel so sorry for people who don't find MB, both BS and WS.

Isn't it amazing how the insight from other people helps you see things you'd have wondered about or never known how to deal with.

Jen

<blockquote>quote:<hr />From Kiwi J:
I feel so sorry for people who don't find MB, both BS and WS.

<hr /></blockquote>YOU sure said a mouthful there, girl! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

And I whole heartily AGREE! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

IN addition, I'm sooo grateful that I'm Not one of them.

If not for this place, the information it divulges, the people willing to help, and the other "sources" it recommends (books, websites, ect,..)......then I would most likely be Divorced, bitter and miserable.

NOT to mention so LOST and with hardly a Prayer of ever Finding myself (healthy & whole) Again.

So even if the Marriage part is still a work in progress......I have at least Personally Found my Way.
For that I will be forever grateful! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

That's why I still come back.....in hopes of helping someone else find there way.
Cause its Hard even with good help....and almost impossible with None. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I haven't read this thread yet, but I'll make it very simple.

Read "Torn Asunder" by Dave Carder.

He said the BS is allowed as many questions as they want, however after a certain amount of time, say 6 months the BS needs to STOP the questioning because it hurts the WS and can damage the marriage.

Here's what he said:

It is NOT fair that the only person who knows the real Truth is the WS. In fact, the WS knows 100% of what happened.

It is NOT fair to the BS to have to "WONDER" everyday for the rest of their life as to what really happened, when the WS has all the answers.

It is the "only" way the 2 of you can go on and be 100% committed to the marriage. The WS is the one who committed the Crime so now you have to do the Time, enough said.

Dave Carder said each BS is different, most women want to know if you LOVED the other Woman and what she did for you Emotionally.

Most MEN want to know about the Sexual aspects. Did she orgasm better with other male, was he a better Lover, what positions did they use, was oral sex performed, etc...

Dave Carder also said "as hard as the Truth is for the WS to give out, it is much harder for the BS to accept, so start talking we "need to know."

If my wife and I reconcile and save this marriage I already have 3 pages typed up with questions.

If she doesn't answer them truthful I will file for Divorce. Simple as that.

[ February 19, 2005, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: TA ]

I love Kiwi Jen ....

there, I said it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Pep

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Pepperband:
 I love Kiwi Jen ....

there, I said it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Pep <hr /></blockquote>I'm sorta partial to that silly foreigner myself! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

He said the BS is allowed as many questions as they want, however after a certain amount of time, say 6 months the BS needs to STOP the questioning because it hurts the WS and can damage the marriage.

I read Torn Asunder. One thing my studies and my experiences have taught me is that even the best of those resources need to be moulded to a personal situation.

We're only at 5 months of NC now, yet Squid is miles from answering anything like personal questions about her affair.
YES I could threatenher with divorce and coerce answers ou tof her, but its the spirit of helpfulness and co-operation that I would like, not just the answers to the questions.

THATS whats still not here yet after 5 months of NC : a willingness to place her own embarassment and shame BELOW my RIGHT and need to have questions answered.

She is openeing up more an more, and I think I will get my answers one day, but she needs to feel safe first.

So I am not sure I would hang my hat on Dave Carder's six months moritorium on questions.

Very good question and fascinating thread.

Patriot -- if you are like every other (F)WS on the planet, you were certainly lying to your wife about what you were doing during your affair. You probably did this for a long time and you probably included lies of omission, too, where your wife was simply kept in the dark about what was really happening in her own life.

And like every BS, she doubted her own perceptions and even her own sanity as things kept happening that made no sense to her. Her gut started screaming but she forced it all away because "my husband would never do that."

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

The real terror and disorientation she faces now comes from realizing that she doesn't know whether she can believe a word that comes out of your mouth anymore. She looks back over the days when you were having your affair and realizes that NOTHING is what she thought it was -- black is white, up is down, and short is long.

Everything She Knows Is Wrong.

One way to find out if someone is telling the truth is to ask them the same question repeatedly -- or to ask variations of the same question repeatedly. If the answers seem to be consistent over weeks, months, and even years, *then* maybe the person can slowly begin to relax and start to believe what they are hearing.

That's why so many BS sound like obsessed children when it comes to asking the same questions over and over. But we're not obsessed -- I've been accused of that, too -- because believe me, nobody would like to forget this stuff more than we would. We keep asking because it is the only way we have of determining what is the truth and what is a lie when dealing with someone who has shot their own credibility completely to hell.

Hope this makes sense to you. Good luck.
Mulan

This is a hard question, as a H and BS, I think I want to know everything but it may hurt too bad. I found out about my W eight month A one month ago, believe it included lunches, dinners and multiple PAs (incl several overnights) while I was deployed on my ship (I'm a mil officer). After discovery, my W was been very honest & repentant (as far as I can tell). When asked if the sex was good, and I know it was b/c I know what it takes for her, she said it wasn't real and doesn't want to hurt me w/ gory details. I think I don't want to know and just want to move forward but I still look back too much though. I'm out on the ship again until Apr, not sure if I want to dredge the past up when I return.

Me (BS) 40
W (WS) 37
M 14 years
2 Great kids

Thanks Pep and Mel. Love ya both too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jen

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KiwiJ.:
 Patriot, it's sorta funny and I don't mean this disrespectfully but I can see EXACTLY where you are in your stage of recovery. Very, very early.

Take it from me, a completely recovered FWW - if the BS wants to know ANYTHING and everything you need to tell them. It doesn't hurt them - well, it does - but it's better than not knowing. Whole pieces of their lives are missing - you know the truth but they don't and they just want to make sense of it all.

The other thing you mentioned in another post was trust. I just don't get why a FWS (and I am one) would not do everything, absolutely everything to prove they are trustworthy. OK, so you feel like you're being checked up on - so what. My life and everything I do is STILL an open book to my H and it was from the first day after d-day.

I can imagine the shock to the BS, knowing the person they live with can carry on another life in secret. It's soul destroying. Building up trust again is the least thing you can do for your BS.

Jen <hr /></blockquote>ok. You say I am very early in my recovery. You also say you are a fully recovered WS. Great. You have walked the path that I am walking and/or going to walk. Please share this information with me. Please explain the events on your walk to full recovery and what interesting and vital information I could derive from that. I would love for my wife to exit hell as quickly as possible. No need for her to be there any longer than she has to.

Patriot,

My A was over before my H found out. I didn't want it to be over so I was a horribly foggy withdrawing WS. But, I also knew that I had to regain my marriage even though I didn't know how.

When my H found out he was hurt, bewildered, devestated but he wasn't going to kick me out and he wasn't going to let me go.

I just knew I had to do everything to reconnect with my H and get back my 28 year marriage. So, I just did everything I could to make it easier for my H. If he wanted to know something, I told him, if he wanted to know where I was or what I was doing he knew. In fact I barely went out at all for about 3 months after d-day. He said he was never going to be my jailer and he hasn't been. But one night I was late picking up a dvd because I had to go to a store further away from our usual one. When I got home he had arrived home from work and I wasn't there. He was so upset.

It was from little things like that I knew I was going to have to be careful of how my actions were perceived for a long time.

We're 15 months past d-day. The only time the A comes up is when I tell him stories from MB. I also ran into the OM a few weeks ago but we're so recovered now that it was a minor blip for us. I told my H the minute I got home and we talked it through.

I think my point is, and what I did from day 1, is I never see myself as the victim and do whatever it takes to put my H's mind completely at ease. All I ever wanted to do was love my H again like I had for the previous 28 years and which I'd rewritten to say I'd never been happy. What an utter, utter crock.

Our recovery has not been easy. No one's ever is. I prefer to not even think about those early months. They were horrible for both of us.

Now we're "normal", happy and in love. That is what everyone strives for and it is so achievable but only if both parties put 100% into it.

Jen

[ February 20, 2005, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ. ]

patriot, your post is a good one but it's too late for me to answer to all of it..

Why do we want to know? Because it's a significant event that is deeply impacting our lives. You lived the affair so you don't have to get all the answers...you have them!! There's a very good analogy about a puzzle out there...if I can find it tomorrow, I'll post it. We want to know how you were able to process each event and proceed with the affair.

We don't like the "don't remember" part of things, even though personally, I do understand that. How could you NOT remember something that was so devastating and life changing to us? How rude and uncaring. It's like you do not care enough about us to remember each and every minute detail about what you did to hurt us so badly. When you "don't remember", it makes us feel even more insignificant and discarded.

I did not gather information to help me to decide to leave my husband. I just had to know. Ever satisfied? Not really...we still weren't THERE, so you could play us a movie and we'd still feel like we didn't know everything. I even get tired of talking about the A, but I still want to know more.

This has passed over a couple of years--but I that may be in part because we never moved into recovery. It was the beginning of the end for us.

Understand that I'm only speaking of myself here. Many BS don't want to know ANY details.

Patriot,
As a fellow WS, I can understand your discomfort in sharing uncomfortable details. If you are like me, it isn't fun to see the look of pain on your spouse's face when we do share, the wincing and grief...in fact it hurts. Mostly because it makes me face the true reality of what I did. I know we tell ourselves (and them) that knowing won't make them feel better, but I believe we don't usually want to share because we WS's would rather not feel that pain.

Sharing not only helps them piece together the chain of events, but it also helps us come to grips with the consequences of our actions - to face it now so it doesn't keep rearing it's ugly head in our psychic 10 years down the road in unhealthy ways. I try and tell myself feeling his pain will help me remember why I never want to do this again.

My rule has been to let my spouse tell me how much he wants to hear and what details. I try not to be deliberately blunt and hurtful, but I am honest. I usually start with "are you sure you want to know?" The answer is usually yes, but at least he's braced for it a little bit.

I know it's simpler to say "I said I'm sorry now let's move forward." But, we both needed to look back for just a bit and piece together exactly WTH happened and why. Then, maybe both sides are in a better place to start moving ahead.

But...I'm only six weeks into NC, so take my advice with a grain of salt. Just thought I'd share my strategy so far. I can say the questions have moved from gory specifics to what now seems more like "why did you do that?" and "what were you feeling when you did that?" I don't think we could get to this stage until we got through the gory specifics first.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gentlsoul:
we WS's would rather not feel that pain.<hr /></blockquote>True.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> also helps us come to grips with the consequences of our actions<hr /></blockquote>True.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> his pain will help me remember why I never want to do this again.<hr /></blockquote>My H said this very same thing.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />But...I'm only six weeks into NC, so take my advice with a grain of salt.<hr /></blockquote>This is the only part of your wonderful post I take issue with.

YOU may be only 6 weeks into the process .... but your words require NO "grain of salt". They should be swallowed whole.

VERY GOOD!

Pep

First, I wanted to say how very helpful this post is to me. Second, I wanted to bring it back to the top so that others who need it may receive vital information from it also.
Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and experience during this very stressful period in some of our lives.
I will be using alot of the words written here to use if I can ever get my H to talk about the A. In fact, I will be actually using the reasons give here to get him to open up.
Thanks everyone who responded to this post. It really is a helpful one to a BS.

Carnation

Noodle: YES, YES, 1000 times YES!

That's just it, our imagination is a million times worse than reality... seriously! And if you choose to hide something, than that must be the really juicy, scarey part, like the OP does X better than us...

WH does not like it, but he is honest w/ me about the details (as far as I know). Of course, I have to fish... but that is just how he is... he is not good just starting a dialogue, esp when he is uncomfortable w/ the topic.

Yes, it helps in some small way to know that he didn't orgasm the first time! It helps to hear he was thinking "don't look at her belly".... and it hurts to know that all this aside he went back and did it again and again. Couldn't have been that bad, huh?

Yes, it hurts like hell to know that he told her he loved her... but she said it first. It's a double edged sword, but the real is so much easier to deal w/ than the stuff I dream up in my head!

Word of advice, be brief, but be honest. She will eventually stop needing the answers all the time, but every now and then something will hit her and she will want to know... they are called triggers and they come out of the blue. You owe her this much.

patriot,

You have gotten some GREAT responses here, but there was one thing no one mentioned that I wanted to add. When my exH had his A, I asked him questions and wanted to know about some details--not because I wanted to hurt myself, but because something happened to me. Part of my intuition told me something was wrong, but I was told over and over again to not listen to my intuition. I was told that *I* was crazy...or *I* was making this all up in my head.

Then...suddenly...in one horrendous moment, I found out that my intuition had been right! All the things that my gut had told me WERE happening! But all the things that I believed in: home, family, marriage, loyalty, honesty, love, commitment, responsibility, duty, honor--all those things were like GONE! SHATTERED!!

I asked questions because I couldn't trust myself anymore. I couldn't trust my own perceptions. I was told my intuition was CRAZY and it was right. Things I thought were wrong, I was told were right. Things I believed in, were destroyed. My identity was not who I was. It was AWFUL.

I wanted to know what the OW looked like to know if it was a "she's your complete opposite" thing or if she was like me and I had a shot. I wanted to know what she said and how he felt because I wanted to know if there were some "magic words" to make him fall in love with me again (btw, there weren't). I wondered how someone I loved with my whole heart was snatched away by someone else. To me, I felt like I just could not trust my own perceptions, so I asked...and asked...and asked....to try to regain some direction in my life.

Now, patriot, in my instance my exH gave me the "you'll never let this go!" speech and the "It's over! Can't you see I've changed" speech and basically did not answer my questions. Everything I eventually found out, I discovered, and every time I discovered something it sent me BACK to abyss. If he had only been open and answered my questions, it would have meant SO MUCH. More than you can understand, and more than I can communicate. It would have meant something like, "I get it. I nuked your foundation. Now answering your questions is uncomfortable and painful for me, but I'm willing to do that to help you rebuild what I nuked."

Refusing to answer? Wanting to "get over it"? Well, as you can see, we are divorced now.

FNCJ

needed this back at top so it does not get burried. I need to print some of these. These responses are how I feel, but unable to get WW to talk of A at all. AS BS's we really do need to know things.

Well the night of D-Day I hit my FWW with a ton of questions that she answered very quick and truthfully. They were very painfull to hear, but I needed to here them. One question I answered she gave a no...never answer. Well about three weeks later she changed it to a "yes". Just by her lying about that one question she has made me wonder if all the others were answered truthfully. She knows she screwed up by that answer but said she didn't want to hurt me even more.

Here...I did the worst thing a S can do in a marriage....but let me fix that by lying a little more.

My husband is a serial adulterer.

Without a doubt the two affairs that hurt me the most were the ones which involved my WH and the OW telling me that their relationship was none of my business.

One of the OW told me, exact quote:
(WH's name) "and I have a very special friendship that's none of your F---ing business"!!! At the time WH and I were not separated, he was claling me about 5 times per day from work to tell me how much he loved me, and I was 2 1/2 months pregnant with a third child - PLANNED pregnancy.

That was my WH's 6th affair.
And the fact that my WH and the OW were telling me that whatever went on between them was none of my business hurt as much as the first 5 affairs put together.

Anytime I needed to talk about the affairs my WH (and his family) assumed I was just trying to "bring up the past and throw it in his face", was "refusing to forgive & forget", not trying to "move on", etc.

I guess they assumed because it made him feel bad to think or talk about it, therefore my only motive was to harrass him?

The truth is I really did need him to help me heal. His refusal to do so just hurt me even more.

I guess the question a wayward spouse has to ask themselves is are they willing to put as much into repairing the damage as they did into causing it?

Obviously my WH isn't willing to or capable of cleaning up the mess he made. So he (and his family) have decided that I am the one who destroyed the marriage because I failed to just shut-up & forget it ever happened.

My MIL just chanted:
"He said he's sorry, what more do you want?"
in reference to everything he did (verbal abuse, emotional abuse, physical abuse, lying, porn problem, adultery)