Marriage Builders®
Posted By: Fishracer "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/23/05 04:37 PM
Do not mean to hit a sore-spot with BS's, but have often wondered;

1. Do you believe in "soulmates"?

2. Can a person have more than 1 soulmate during their lifetime?

3. Please explain your belief.

I usually do not participate when I ask similar questions so in the interest of fairness; I will answer this post first!

1. Yes
2. No
3. My belief is that most, if not all of us have a soulmate. A soulmate-relationship is not so much related to destiny or happenstance as it is to the true meaning of marriage.

I further believe that the realization of who our soulmate is becomes stronger with each passing day of our M. And only upon nearing the end of our days on earth will we fully and completely realize who that person is. A soulmate is one who buys completely into the commitment, vows, beliefs, etc. to spouse and to God in marriage.

Sadly, some may also realize that they left their soulmate for the perception of a "better" someone else - which will be a tragic realization for the one who left - as it may only be realized late in life; or after the person that was left re-marries or dies.

To briefly summarize: We will only realize that we have a soulmate, and who that soulmate is after we've lived most or all of life's up's & down's together, endured them as a committed couple, love each other and realize that one will be passing on soon. I believe it will be a revelation that is made by each, recognized by an overwhelmingly positive emotion and it may or may not ever be spoken of. (Hopefully it will be!)

OK - now it's your turn...

FR <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: notsosadman28 Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/23/05 04:52 PM
1) If by a soulmate you mean someone who is destined to be with us no matter what then NO. I believe people fall in love.

2) I think people can fall in love many times, but can truly love one person at the time. They may feel in love with more than one person but it is not true love.

3) I also believe that some people play very important roles in our lives and there will be a speciall connection (relationship), and no matter how much we love someone else that connection will always be there. If I had to give an example of this I would mention the relationship between my FWW and her XBF. He will always be there in her heart and brain even if she loves me and not him. That's why she choose to have an A with him when things were not going well between us <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
I have to learn to live with it.
Posted By: grapegirl Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/23/05 04:55 PM
Touchy subject since most WS believe the OP is the destined soulmate. Most WS believe that they were wrong to even marry BS. It's either the drift theory or the I never loved you theory or whatever. Maybe someday they come back to thinking BS is a soulmate but definitely have skewed view during the A.

I guess I'd have say that there are certain people in life that we naturally have a natural affinity for. There's people we like right off the bat. Generally, that's driven by common interests or friends. When it's Male-Female, it's probably more of a chemical sexual reaction. And how can that last?

As a BW, I'm not a good person to talk to about this. I don't really buy the soulmate thing. Try me in a few months...
Posted By: Tom Joad Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/23/05 04:56 PM
1. No

2. I believe I have the possibilities to have 100's soulmates. There hundreds of ladies out there who could make me completely happy and whom I could make completely happy.

The difference is that I choose a lady to marry. I choose to forsake all those other possible soulmates when I took my vows. It does not mean that I happiness would elude me in a partnership if I didn't have the particular lady that I married. I simply means I committed myself to her. I avoided and rejected feelings for other possible partners.

3. See #2

I don't believe in soulmates. Soulmate by my definition means there is one person in the world for me. I don't believe that is true for anyone. If a person ascribes to this belief, then it is easy, when things get difficult, that the person you "thought" was your soulmate is not. People who ascribe to this belief find it easy to change partners in that ever elusive chase to find thier soulmate. They keep trading, and not committing. They break thier vow and promise to forsake all others.
Posted By: robby13 Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/23/05 05:01 PM
1. Do you believe in "soulmates"?

No. I think it's a romantic or religious notion that works well in fiction but does not hold up in reality.

2. Can a person have more than 1 soulmate during their lifetime?

I think a person can be completely happy with more than one person, yes.

3. Please explain your belief.

How many people have gone from thinking they married the wrong person to building a happy, loving marriage? Also how many couples have believed they found their "soulmate" only to end up D?

Are they then doomed?
Posted By: faithful follower Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/23/05 05:49 PM
A soulmate is one who buys completely into the commitment, vows, beliefs, etc. to spouse and to God in marriage. In that definition, yes. Soulmate by destiny, NO! If that were the case my H would have had two "soulmates" and I ashamedly admit to using the dreaded "s" word during my A. I do not subscribe to the belief.
Posted By: Fishracer Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/24/05 06:57 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">3) I also believe that some people play very important roles in our lives and there will be a speciall connection (relationship), and no matter how much we love someone else that connection will always be there. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sadman: A very good friend of mine subscribes to this same belief. I find that interesting!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Touchy subject since most WS believe the OP is the destined soulmate. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GG: I know and I realize this question will be uncomfortable for BS's. I do believe that we BS's can and will meet or have already met our soulmate though and only time will tell.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If a person ascribes to this belief, then it is easy, when things get difficult, that the person you "thought" was your soulmate is not. People who ascribe to this belief find it easy to change partners in that ever elusive chase to find thier soulmate. They keep trading, and not committing. They break thier vow and promise to forsake all others.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TJ: Due to the timing; I knew this would be a tough one for you - my friend! I am sorry for that. I agree with you 100% that the types you're describing will never find what they're looking for and thus will never find their soulmate. That is the very premise of my belief: That our soulmate is never "found" but "made" through total commitment to each other through the trials of life.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How many people have gone from thinking they married the wrong person to building a happy, loving marriage? Also how many couples have believed they found their "soulmate" only to end up D? Are they then doomed?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good questions Rob: My belief is that those you're describing are looking to "find" their SM, rather than working to develop a soulmate type relationship. I guess the key point to your question is: "...they married the wrong person...". I have always wondered how things would have turned out had WS's put forth the same effort to bettering their M that they did to having an A.

FF: Sorry to have dredged up old wounds! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

FR
Posted By: Rosiepiesix Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/23/05 07:50 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Fishracer+:
[QB]
1. Do you believe in "soulmates"?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No. I used to believe in soulmates when I was young and naive. I no longer do. I once thought I had met my 'soulmate' a long time ago. It was my experience with him however that convinced me that there really was no such thing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
2. Can a person have more than 1 soulmate during their lifetime?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, by generally accepted definition there can be only one 'soulmate' I think - whoever your soulmate is possesses the other half of your soul right? So there can be only one.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">3. Please explain your belief. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If all of us have a soulmate out there, how are we to meet them? How will we know? By the feeling we get? By feeling 'in love?' I've been truly in love 3 times in my life. The intense feeling last about a year. After that, if you can continue being with the person and loving them and get along with them you are fortunate.

So how do you know if you've met your soulmate?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A soulmate-relationship is not so much related to destiny or happenstance as it is to the true meaning of marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't agree. Most people believe they've met their soulmate BEFORE getting married. My H did in his A. He SWORE she was his soulmate and he had missed his destiny to be with her. That was a year ago. Today, he can't understand how he could have been so stupid to declare undying love to her. 'How could he have made such a mistake' he wonders.

I don't believe my H is my soulmate and I never have. Call me bitter, cynical, an old biddy or whatever. But I've been through too many 'true love' relationships to beleive anymore in the concept of soulmates. There are probably a few dozen men in this world who I could fall in love with and live happily with.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
Posted By: OnceAKnight Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/23/05 08:12 PM
1. Do you believe in "soulmates"?

Sort of, yeah.

2. Can a person have more than 1 soulmate during their lifetime?

Absolutely.

3. Please explain your belief.

Glad to.

There have been 6 or 7 people over the course of my life that I have just..liked at first site. Felt an instant, instinctive connection with.

Thing is, there have been as many males as females.
The guys have without fail become very close friends. Those of the ladies that I have chosen to speak to more than once have with one exception become lovers and long term relationships. The one lady who is the exception is the ex-wife of a friend of mine, so there may have been the potential for a romantic relationship there as well, but if so it was never pursued.

So, I do believe in the BAM! sudden connection that many people claim to feel for their "soulmates". Thing is, it is not a romantic thing for me. Assuming no other commitments and suitable gender, it has been a solid indication of the potential for a rewarding romantic relationship, but none of those relationships have been a permanent thing ( might just be me being hard to live with, tho).

Of the guys I have felt that connection with, 3 of them are still very close and dear friends. The fourth betrayed me by having an affair with my then-fiance, which resulted in me severing contact with him(and her). They ended up married and divorced a few years later. Wierd thing is, I still feel that connection with this guy, even after what he did. I chose not to allow it to influence me further, but it is still there ten years later.

And, as a corollary which has yet to be mentioned...

Anti-soulmatees. Have you ever met anyone that you just immediately didn't like and didn't trust?

See, I have felt that too, almost as often. Again, gender doesn't seem to figure in to it. Just an instinctive aversion.

Neither of these seem to have anything to do with common interests, or personality, or viewpoints, or values...heck, there is really nothing that has been true every time.

Maybe it is some sort of ESP, in the literal meaning. Or maybe it is some combination of appearence, pheramones...heck, maybe eye tint. No idea, really.

One thing tho. Neither the instant connection nor the instant antipathy are rational at all. Nothing to do with being well thought out, or even having any reason at all that I have ever noticed.

Thanks for asking...these questions really gave me a lot to think about.

-OAK
Posted By: Pepperband Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/23/05 08:18 PM
For fun I looked up 'soulmate' on Merriam-Webster online...

a person temperamentally suited to another

could be a friendship not necessarily a romantic relationship.

I feel some kinship with MBer 'Susan' and I consider her one of my soulmates ... but I aint gonna marry her! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ February 23, 2005, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>
Posted By: OnceAKnight Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/23/05 08:29 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> For fun I looked up 'soulmate' on Merriam-Webster online...

a person temperamentally suited to another

could be a friendship not necessarily a romantic relationship.

I feel some kindship with MBer 'Susan' and I consider her one of my soulmates ... but I aint gonna marry her! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey, that's what I said!

And I used lots more words, so my post is lots more better! *raspberry*

Seriously, that is, in a nutshell, exactly what I meant.

-OAK
Posted By: Pepperband Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/23/05 08:37 PM
'cept I misspelled kinship

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
Posted By: WhoMe Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/23/05 08:44 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Touchy subject since most WS believe the OP is the destined soulmate. Most WS believe that they were wrong to even marry BS. It's either the drift theory or the I never loved you theory or whatever. Maybe someday they come back to thinking BS is a soulmate but definitely have skewed view during the A.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't know that Most WS actually believe that the OP is their destined soulmate. I think that many WS know that they actually love their BS and have no intention of leaving them for the OP. I think the allure of the OP is more like looking for something they aren't getting or simply think they need.

Any WS's out there who actually saw the OP as their destined soumate?
Posted By: FallingUp Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/23/05 09:23 PM
While I believe it is possible for some people to have soulmates, those folks that you are instinctively drawn to, and seem to have known forever in the span of a few minutes, I don't know if everyone experiences this...

I have had "instant attractions", where I felt comfortable interacting with people (OAK being a great example of that), but I have never had the lasting feeling that would be indicitave of a soulmate, as it were... the feelings fade out for me in that situation. I either grow accustomed to the person being there and don't think about the attraction anymore or I forget what I saw in them in the first place if I don't see them for a while. (My ex husband, and a couple of my A's, for that matter, are good examples of this, I remember being head-over-heels for each of them, and I saw them as my soulmates then, but I certainly don't feel that connection with them anymore and haven't in a long time... in my ex-husband's case, since months and months prior to our divorce.)

Thinking about it, I can't recall a single person that I have felt "that certain something" about for more than a couple of months or so. I feel a little cheated in the biology department now that I'm thinkin about it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I dunno, maybe I'm just wierd... but I knew that already.

-FallingUp
Posted By: Fishracer Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/23/05 09:55 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For fun I looked up 'soulmate' on Merriam-Webster online...
a person temperamentally suited to another
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ah - PEP; you're taking my fun away!!! LOL.

Actually, Merriam Webster shows "soul mate" as two words. When you look at "soul" then "mate" separately; they take on a whole new meaning.

The answers so far are different than I expected. There seems to be a strong underlying message and I'm wondering if anyone else is catching it?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> FR
Posted By: greergan Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/23/05 10:19 PM
I dunno

During a meditation just over 5 years ago I asked for the universe to send my wife into my life. A month or 2 later I was on a blind date with her. During that short between period I had 2 dreams of her. 2 dreams showing her at different points in time. One dream matched her apperance 5 years ago the other matches her appearance now.

A couple of months into our dating I told her that I would marry her...did not ever think of marriage before that moment, just leaned toward her and said it. A month later I had a feeling she was prego, a week after that she did the home test and confirmed it and a couple of months later we were married.

I believe that this is the women I am supposed to be with. The one with whom I will have the most opportunity for learning about people and relationships and the difference between women and men.
Posted By: Susan Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/23/05 10:37 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> For fun I looked up 'soulmate' on Merriam-Webster online...

a person temperamentally suited to another

could be a friendship not necessarily a romantic relationship.

I feel some kinship with MBer 'Susan' and I consider her one of my soulmates ... but I aint gonna marry her! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is only because I am already married and I am not interested in leaving my wonderful husband. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I should bump an old thread <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ...ummm...on second thought, never mind. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Susan
aka Queen and Pep's soulmate <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Posted By: aislinn Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/23/05 11:57 PM
Hi, FR--have not touched base with you in awhile <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , how ya doing?

Do not mean to hit a sore-spot with BS's, but have often wondered;

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1. Do you believe in "soulmates"?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I used to, but not anymore. I think that you can connect quickly with someone and that gives that "soulmate" thing meaning. But often it's really just because of circumstances. If you let the relationship stand on its own and don't nurture it, you'll end up wondering how you ever thougnt that person was your soulmate--hence the reason I don't believe in it.

I do, however, feel that some people are better matched to each other than others.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2. Can a person have more than 1 soulmate during their lifetime?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, the question does not apply because of my answer to number one. But if there were such a thing, I would believe that it's possible to have more than one (too many people in the world for that not to be true...too many souls have passed through!) in a lifetime, and possibly even more than one at a time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">3. Please explain your belief.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think I already did. However let me add. I really think that whole concept is just bullcrap. It sets people up for an expectation of that butterfly feeling always being there. It narrows your options and you may not find the person who could really fulfill you. Just because someone is your "soulmate", does not mean it's necessarily good for you to be with them. Perhaps there's soemone better out there for you, even if they're not your soulmate.

Also...the whole concept worries me because I feel that my h is looking for his soulmate and I've never been his (so he says now). He feel this precludes us from having a deep, meaningful, fulfilling and happy marriage. In this context, the idea of a soulmate makes my situation seem even more hopeless than it already is.

I usually do not participate when I ask similar questions so in the interest of fairness; I will answer this post first!


I like your take on it FR, but I just don't buy it. The common idea of a soulmate is that you don't really have to work at it to have a happy relationship with them...at least not to the extent that we all do here. Your definition of a soulmate does not play into that.
Posted By: meremortal Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/24/05 12:09 AM
A while back I came across this article from the Psychology Today magazine:

http://www.freedomlist.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17179
Posted By: Fishracer Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/24/05 12:22 AM
Hi Maddy:

Been missing you! How've you been?

I have two questions pertaining to your post/my post:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I like your take on it FR, but I just don't buy it. The common idea of a soulmate is that you don't really have to work at it to have a happy relationship with them...at least not to the extent that we all do here. Your definition of a soulmate does not play into that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What if the common idea of a soulmate is incorrect?

What if my definition is correct?

I met and spent time with an older couple recently who inspired me. They were probably in their late 60's or early 70's. Their faces are weathered by the sun down here and both were in good physical shape. But what I really noticed was their eyes. Their eyes were - young! Very young! Full of energy and life. And they held hands like we did in our teens and twenties. It was not forced; but natural. Like their hands fit perfectly together. They had 4 kids and I don't recall how many grandkids. I asked them about their eyes. They smiled and looked at each other - deeply! He said that God has allowed them to keep their eyes young so that they can see how beautiful the other is. (Thought I was gonna start bawling!) Turns out that they've had a pretty tough life. They had separated in their 40's. (She looked down and said she had a "momentary lapse in reality". He just smiled and held her hand.) One of their kids was dead, not sure what happened. Another was divorced and the other two seemed to be fine. They sure loved their kids and G-kids. They'd lost their fortune in a business-deal gone bad but regained enough $$ to allow retirement. I asked how. They both said: "Together"! I did let out some tears then! Couldn't help it! And it was then that I realized what "soulmate" really means - at least to them - and to me!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

FR
Posted By: aislinn Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/24/05 12:39 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What if the common idea of a soulmate is incorrect?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It might be, but that's just not the commonly held definition.
Which leads to the next...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What if my definition is correct?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then I think it's a very nice definition and you should lecture to high school students on what the definition should be.

And yes, I do think that it's possible to have that with someone. And yes, i think it's possible to have it with more than once person (say in the event of the death of one spouse)
Posted By: Fishracer Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/24/05 01:52 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then I think it's a very nice definition and you should lecture to high school students on what the definition should be. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ouch! Hope I didn't offend you - it was not my intent! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hope you're doing well.

FR
Posted By: aislinn Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/24/05 02:09 AM
lol..no, you didn't offend me at all...I meant that sincerely.

I wish kids were required to learn relationship skills in all areas of life...friends, workplace, kids, parents, romantic.
Posted By: micro2000 Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/24/05 05:49 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Fishracer+:
[QB] Do not mean to hit a sore-spot with BS's, but have often wondered;

1. Do you believe in "soulmates"?[/b]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In the sense of one person "meant" or "destined" for another? No.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2. Can a person have more than 1 soulmate during their lifetime?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Definately.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">3. Please explain your belief.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The romanticized version of "soulmate", as being another person "destined" for you, is deterministic, which then forces one to accept that nothing they do is truly their own choice. First, if there is only 1 other person made for you, then how are you supposed to find them out of 6+ billion people on earth? You find someone during your lifetime that makes you feel in love, but how do you know that this is your soulmate and not one of the 6+ billion others? You would never find out. Not to mention it promotes infidelity and divorce, because believing such a concept precludes one to always be on the lookout for their true "soulmate".

Second, if you do fall in love, marry and then find someone else who you believe is your true "soulmate", then you have done nothing wrong by leaving your first spouse to be with this "soulmate", for you are only acting in some grand design that is out of your mortal control and you are actually doing the first spouse a favor by freeing them up to find their "soulmate". Thus the whole notion favors infidelity and divorce, not to mention reduces human will and choice meaningless. You can't be held responsible for what was "destined to be".

"Soulmate" can be a valid term when one considers that humans can share their "soul" with others, they can share their innermost fears and passions and desires with others whom they care for and feel for, and likewise be a vessel for another in the same manner. But there is nothing magical or deterministic in this idea; we willingly choose to do this with another.
Posted By: susanbythesea Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/24/05 11:00 AM
Soulmates?..well if the definition of that is a person temporamentily (sp?) suited to another then yes l do believe in them,l believe people change as they grow and often people at a typical marrying age meet and marry someone who at that time they feel they are in love with only to find that as time progresses each of them chage and the feelings shift like sand...for some people it is simply the case of reajusting to their partners but for others the changes are too great and for whatever reason they look elsewhere,few people are lucky enough to find someone who grows and changes as a mirror image of their partners, back in history when divorce was almost unheard of the average lifespan was also far shorter and so consequently the timescale to change was not their either so couples stayed together. nowadays with expectations higher,lifespans higher and freedom greater l think many people may look for a soulmate when their own relationship changes,many affairs start with people in their 40's as at this time people have generally evolved into how they want to be for the rest of their life and are looking to find fulfillment,if couples are religious then this adds extra strains and problems as often each partner has a differing view of their responsibilitys....so to finish, yes l believe in soulmates, ...no unless they are incredibly lucky...l do not think they can have more than 1 soulamte in their life as the very premise of a soulmate gives supreme joy and theirfore neither partner would want to search for another person. ........and my belief is above...........many thanks Sue
Posted By: Bob_Pure Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/24/05 11:40 AM
1. Do you believe in "soulmates"?
No. Not anymore.

2. Can a person have more than 1 soulmate during their lifetime?
see answer 1

3. Please explain your belief.

This affair taught me that each of us is fundamentally alone in this life.

I believe that a man and a woman can intelock well, and make a successful and loving life partnership, but for teh health of each party there must be a part withheld. A final neediness and otherness that must not be handed over because when that R breaks down, as the all do at some point, the giver is utterly destroyed and left helpless.

I always DID believe in "two becoming one " as a single physical, spiritual and emotional unit, but Squids affair and the affairs of many other folks on here in seemingly 'soulmate' relationships demonstrate that they do not exst. And when we try to achieve such, we set ourselves up for unhealthy levels of dependency.

I don't regret believing in soulmates for 22 years. But I can't behave that way again. It would kill me next time.


<small>[ February 24, 2005, 05:43 AM: Message edited by: b0b pure* ]</small>
Posted By: meremortal Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/24/05 03:28 PM
I believe that what most people think of as "I have found my soulmate" is merely infatuation or the "falling in love" stage. Doesn't everybody who is "in love" think they have found their "soulmate"? And then when the honeymoon period wears off, unless they are mature enough to build the real love stage (because that part doesn't just "happen") then they claim they were mistaken and are off to be with the next "soulmate"...

Cany you have more than one soulmate in your lifetime?

IMHO, yes.

You can have several falling in love experiences, each time BELIEVING that you are in a relationship with your soulmate.

You can also BUILD a soulmate relationship, over many years, but if that relationship ends, that doesn't mean you can never BUILD another relationship that is more than just infatuation.

IMHO the first example is just immaturity and not really relationships with a soulmate.
People who think that every time they become infatuated they have found there soulmate (and they were just mistaken all the other times they fell in love?) are never getting past the crush stage to experience mature love.

On the other hand, it is entirely possible for mature people to recover from one soulamte relationship that has ended regardless of their maturity and committment, to then meet somebody mature enough to build a lasting love realtionship with. And THAT is what a real soulmate is IMO.

A while back I came across this article from the Psychology Today magazine:

http://www.freedomlist.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17179
Posted By: meremortal Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/24/05 03:39 PM
Micro2000,

I think my opinion of soulmate is sort of like yours.

I agree that thinking there is one soulamte somewhere out there for us, that we just have to somehow bump into, is the cause of a lot of relationship problems and excuses lack of responsibility for BUILDING or BEING a soulmate in your relationship.

The article I linked to discusses that problem.

And Bob,

You sound sort of like my WH in his more honest moments. My WH felt it was OK for him to hold back as a way to protect himself from being hurt WHEN/if our marriage ended. Although I understood his fear and wanting to protect himself, his lack of committment guaranteed our marriage would fail.

I certainly can relate to how a BS can be afraid to give a relationship their all after being hurt so badly. But IMHO love has to be all or nothing. We should be very careful about who we get involved with but when we do choose to get involved I think we should always do our best to build the best relationship we can. Yes, we could get hurt again but I just don't see any sense in making sure the relationship fails so somebody HAS TO get hurt. (Somebody WILL always get hurt and I just want to make sure it's not me sums up my WH's motto I guess)

I do believe that it is possible to have a mature love relationship. To me finding the right person is not about finding some mythical, one in billions "soulmate"... but about BEING one and being extra careful to only get in a relationship with somebody who is mature enough to also be a soulmate. It has much more to do with committment and maturity than with destiny or luck.

Love is a verb which some people don't bother to learn how to do (or are too afraid to do)

<small>[ February 24, 2005, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>
Posted By: MichaelinDallas Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/24/05 03:45 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Fishracer+:
<strong> 1. Do you believe in "soulmates"?

2. Can a person have more than 1 soulmate during their lifetime?

3. Please explain your belief.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok,
1. yes. I believe in soul mates.

2. Yes and no. Wishy washy I know but see below.

3. I believe that out of the billions of people on this planet, there are probably thousands out there you could fall in love with. There are also probably a bunch of people who could qualify as a soul mate. Now that does not mean I think you could have more than one soul mate in your lifetime. I think if you end up finding one of your soulmates, even if another potential soul mate comes along you would not even notice, since you are already with someone who is a soul mate.
Michael
Posted By: Octobergirl Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/24/05 03:50 PM
Hi FR,

The word soulmate always makes my radar go up so I thought I would just make a quick post.I didn't even read the other replys since I am so dang tired but if I can find it,I will bring back an article I posted here a while ago from Psychology Today about how the search for the "soulmate" is a huge blow to marriages and a big "cause" of D.

I do not believe in this "soulmate" theme.I think it was born from the idea that,mistakenly,there is that one special clone person that completes you or was meant for you.blah <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> This can lead people to think that what they already have at home isn't enough or the "right" one or a whole host of other misguided fruitless searches.

It's an illusion.

Ok,I think I need a nap.yaaaaawn........... lol

I will try to get that article for ya
Posted By: meremortal Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/24/05 04:12 PM
Hi OctoberGirl,

Got your article link already:

http://cms.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20040301-000002.html

You and I were apparently surfing the same brain wave when we saw this thread title LOL

I agree with your opinion of the "soulmate" myth (blah)

I imagine the shock when my WH and the latest OW looked at each other for the first time after realizing they hadn't found their soulmate after all. And neither of them had the maturity and integrity to actually BECOME a soulmate - both takers and no givers. Oh sure they acted like givers for a while because they were "in love" (infatuated). But when that started to wear thin (thanx in great part to exposure LOL) they had to face the fact that neither of them was really willing to BE the other's dream mate because that meant actually BEING honest, sacrificial, hard-working, faithful, etc.

IMHO nobody should have a sexual relationship with a child - even if the children involved are 33 (OW) and 51 (WH) LOL Adult relationships are best left to adults.

Enjoy your nap girl.

I'll be driving half the day - up into the Adirondacks. Can't wait to see what this soulmate thread's been up to when I get back.

<small>[ February 24, 2005, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>
Posted By: Octobergirl Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/24/05 04:26 PM
MM!!

Thanks so much for pulling that up for me.I am going to read it again.I think it was rather accurate in many respects.

Have fun in the mountains <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm going back to my nap.....zzzzzzz LOL
Posted By: graycloud Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/24/05 04:40 PM
Call me surly today... it makes me squirm to see grownups using this word.

GC
Posted By: Stan-ley Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/24/05 04:53 PM
The soulmate concept is bogus. Practically ALL involved in affairs believe they have found thier soulmate. However, many or most do not leave the marriage.

My wife and I never had the soulmate discussion, however she did with OM. Obviously the soulmate talk was nothing but hot air.
Posted By: Fishracer Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/25/05 01:37 AM
RESULTS!!! OF UNOFFICIAL SURVEY:

BS’s: 14
WS’s: 5
Unsure: 1
Yes to believing in Soulmate Concept (Traditional Definition.): 5
No to believing in Soulmate Concept (Traditional Definition.): 14
Yes to meeting multiple Soulmates in life: 7
No to meeting multiple Soulmates in life: 4
Formerly Yes to believing in Soulmates, now No: 3
Soulmate status is “earned”: 2
Unsure: 4

Total: 20

Male: 10
Female: 10

Interesting! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

FR <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Fishracer Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 02/25/05 10:19 PM
Bumping so all can see the results and draw conclusions. I thought the results were - well - not as I thought!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

FR
Posted By: meremortal Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/02/05 03:45 AM
bump
Posted By: meremortal Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/02/05 03:04 PM
Here's what I think the adulterers mean when they say they've found their soulmate:

They're "in love"

You know how they tell the betrayed spouse "I love you but I'm not in love with you"?

Well with their adultery partner they should be saying "I don't love you but I'm in love with you"

IMHO people under the spell of an adultery addiction can only be "in love" - lack the maturity and sanity TO love. While the addiction has it's grip on them they don't really love anyone - not even their own children.
They will claim they love their children and even the betrayed spouse, but their actions prove otherwise.

They have convinced themselves that "in love" is what it's all about. And they avoid responsibility and guilt because one can't help who they "fall in love" with... It was fate - they met their soulmate - yea, that's it!

(They refuse to talk about how they consciously chose to put themselves in situations that nurtured falling in love, failed to protect their marriage from OP's etc,)

Unlike real love where one has to make conscious choices and take actions even if they don't feel like it at the moment, the person "in love" just wants to do whatever they feel like doing, allowing their emotions and carnal desires to rule over them.

Selfishness is sanctioned because they are "in love".

When it's a case of a normally sane person having AN affair the adultery eventually loses it's sparkle, the honeymoon phase always ends, and unless the adulterers start TO LOVE when they start "falling out of love" with each other, the affair ends. TO LOVE would mean they would have to admit to themselves that if they had worked at the marriage(s) their adultery destroyed, then the marriage(s) could have been not just saved, but quite satisfying. Also, once the adulterers fall out of love with each other they will KNOW they can't trust each other and doubts that each other will have the morality and maturity to DO what's needed to maintain the relationship will surface.

Serial adulterers are not merely suffering from a string of such addictions, causing temporary insanity (fog) but have a chronic inability to commit or love. ALL THEY KNOW how to do is "fall in love". Or maybe they know better but lack the morality, maturity, courage... whatever.

NOTE: Sometimes "red flags" are mentioned in the posts here. IMHO it's important to realize that people with overly developed skills at romance, at the sort of behaviors that help somebody "fall in love" with them, should be regarded with extreme caution. People with LOTS of experience with the falling in love stage might have no clue whatsoever when it comes to the building and maintaining a lasting love stage. So when you hear women gush about how they never suspected their guy would be the type to hurt anyone, because he's been so charming, attentive, kind, blah-blah-blah TO THEM, ironically those charming behaviors may have been the red flags they missed. The book Men Who Can't Love says these men can put so much into their pursuit because they know they don't plan to maintain this level of attention for very long. Plus they are better at starting relationships because compared to other men that's all they put any time or energy into - they have a LOT more practice at it. When he goes overboard making a woman feel like Queen for the day, maybe the woman should pay more attention to the "for a day" part?

TO LOVE, the verb, is something serial adulterers lack the capacity or willingness to do.

They probably figure why bother when they can just keep falling in love? They seem like parasites who come and take while the taking's good and don't trouble themselves with the fallout when they move on. It's all play and no work for them (watched too many Bond movies maybe? LOL)

Or they have been so hurt by something in their past they have a very strong committment phobia.
They have learned how to get their needs for relationship met without the risk of getting hurt or dumped. Some have a strong fear of feeling trapped - very similar to claustrophobia. So once the relationship starts to show signs of committment or expectation they escape and start a new relationship with somebody else.

<small>[ March 03, 2005, 06:15 AM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>
Posted By: CarenMc Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/02/05 03:12 PM
1. Do you believe in "soulmates"?
Yes, I do believe in soulmates, and I believe that I found mine in my husband, now if I can just make him remember that, we'll be in good shape.

2. Can a person have more than 1 soulmate during their lifetime?
I don't think so, It makes me immeasurably sad to say this, but I know that I have a soul mate in my H, and if it doesn't work out, part of my soul will die with the R.

3. Please explain your belief.
I have been married before, and dated quite a bit, and I can honestly say, that I've never loved anyone before I met my husband. When we are together, we connect. I don't think I'll ever feel that for anyone again, that's why I'm so adamant about saving my M, I don't think I can, nor do I want to live without him.

-Caren
Posted By: meremortal Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/02/05 03:35 PM
WOW!

I JUST realized something!

I have been sort of depressed for the past few days (got some sort of bug so not getting enough exercise and I recently went to a lower dose on my AD) and worrying that since my WH and I were married 25 years, the odds of me having the sort of marriage I want, with time to build a level of closeness hoped for but never achieved in my marriage to WH, are getting slimmer by the day.

Also, WH has lots of time left to have numerous relationships of the short, shallow sort he prefers. So this was making me feel sort of bitter.

But it just occurred to me:

Since I believe you have to BECOME soulmates, not merely bump into them, I should be enouraged by my and future mate's ability to do so. Even though I probably won't get to have another 25 year long marriage, with a MATURE man, minus a serial adultery problem, I have PLENTY of time left to build a rewarding marriage!

WHOOOPEEE!!!

Meanwhile WH will have to settle for flings with increasingly older, less attractive women (not enough money, stamina, good looks left to attract the sweet young things) LOL And his odds of attracting mates without kids of their own and ex (or current) husbands will decrease over the years too. His latest OW had a child and issues with that child's father, which spoiled some of their fun LOL

<small>[ March 02, 2005, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>
Posted By: meremortal Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/03/05 03:03 AM
This realization has been one of the bright spots in an otherwise gloomy day for me.

Oldest daughter readmitted to hospital psych ward, flu or cold or something feuding with my white blood cells, shoveled driveway twice today just to break even with snow still falling, so congested I can't smell or taste anything, not much sleep last night because I couldn't breath very well, brief morning stretch routine and shoveling only exercise for the day, usual payday problem - know already the money won't stretch far enough til next payday, behind on housework...

Other bright spots today:

Daughter was in very good mood when I visited her in hospital. I went with another homeschool mom and we LOL all through the visit.

A lady at church gave youngest daughter a very cute Guinea Pig today.

Youngest daughter and I went to Taco Bell - eating out's a rare treat for us LOL

The snow is absolutely gorgeous - pure white and glittery like an old-fashioned Christmas card.

<small>[ March 02, 2005, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>
Posted By: Fishracer Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/03/05 11:28 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Since I believe you have to BECOME soulmates, not merely bump into them, I should be enouraged by my and future mate's ability to do so. Even though I probably won't get to have another 25 year long marriage, with a MATURE man, minus a serial adultery problem, I have PLENTY of time left to build a rewarding marriage! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely! I'm facing the same reality and it does make the future look brighter. That's why looking forward and not backward is such a great concept!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Daughter was in very good mood when I visited her in hospital. I went with another homeschool mom and we LOL all through the visit. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The snow is absolutely gorgeous - pure white and glittery like an old-fashioned Christmas card. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're not in Florida are you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

FR
Posted By: meremortal Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/04/05 04:30 AM
Nope - not in Florida LOL

Hey, what do you guys think of that E-Harmony.Com
matchmaker service that claims it helps you find your 'soul mate'?
Posted By: NCWalker Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/04/05 05:04 AM
1. Do you believe in "soulmates"?
No.

2. Can a person have more than 1 soulmate during their lifetime?
Moot. I don't believe in soulmates. Yes, someone can have more than one LOVE in their lifetime.

3. Please explain your belief.
Soulmate almost implies there is another soul out there without which you life is incomplete. How can THAT be? There are people who live enriched, fully functioning lives single the entire time.

Paul told us to marry if we had to (basically because we could not keep our loins in check) but that it was better to serve God single because you could devote yourself FULLY to him. So if we are talking "soul" like the Biblical soul, that which goes to heaven when you die, then no, it is pretty clear that there would not be a soul mate.

One can even look at it without the Biblical references. If there was some Yin-Yang matched set of two people meant for each other, there would have to be some energy or aura between the two so they would KNOW. That would either then be totally in phase, resulting in constructive interference of which some emission would be detectable. Or completely out of phase resulting in some annihilation phenomena. Both of which would be observable. I haven't seen anything between supposed soulmates. Of course, I knew my WW was the one for me the first time she flatulated in front of me. I guess that could be an emission. But I would have expected the emission to occur at first meeting if it truly were some physical phenomena.

I DO believe in kindred spirits. That spirit knows spirit. A junkie can go to a new town he has never been in and get hooked up in a very short amount of time. I think that couples with the comment that there are people you "just like" or "just don't like" right from the start. But some predestined, perfect match? Lacks a little too much free will for my taste. Plus, if it were true, why all the divorces?

A funny thing... Look at the success rates of arranged marriages. Is it because they are forced into them? I don't think so. My bet is because they are arranged. We tend to become our parents. When we are young, early 20s say, we have JUST established who we our as adults. Our parents are say mid forties to early fifties and KNOW who they are. Assuming we turn into our parents, it would not be unwise to let my dad (since I am a guy) pick my wife by querying their mothers and figuring out who HE could stand. Based on personality, value system, etc of the mother of my arranged bride. Seems to me to have a much higher chance of success than listening to the hormones.

NCW
Posted By: micro2000 Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/04/05 11:41 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by meremortal:
<strong> Nope - not in Florida LOL

Hey, what do you guys think of that E-Harmony.Com
matchmaker service that claims it helps you find your 'soul mate'? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think the concept of EHarmony is what is essentially the foundation of "love", i.e. compatability, mutual values, morals, interests, etc. This does not mean that it equals life-long relationships, since most of us shared these traits with our WS, and we can see how easily destroyed "love" is. But when others ask what "is love?", I think the best definition I have read is that it is the emotion derived from finding the reflection of "self" in another, seeing the traits we admire and/or hold within ourselves embodied in another. So I think that EHarmony is a good concept if it really assists in matching people who share these traits.
Posted By: Fishracer Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/04/05 03:03 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A funny thing... Look at the success rates of arranged marriages. Is it because they are forced into them? I don't think so. My bet is because they are arranged. We tend to become our parents. When we are young, early 20s say, we have JUST established who we our as adults. Our parents are say mid forties to early fifties and KNOW who they are. Assuming we turn into our parents, it would not be unwise to let my dad (since I am a guy) pick my wife by querying their mothers and figuring out who HE could stand. Based on personality, value system, etc of the mother of my arranged bride. Seems to me to have a much higher chance of success than listening to the hormones.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NCW: I studied the arranged marriage issue a while back and some believe the success rate to be more than 80% worldwide. I agree with your beliefs as shown above however feel that those reasons are only a small part of the reason why arranged marriages are by & large successful.

1. By design - an arranged marriage eliminates the often confusing dating process. (Which is usually misleading due to putting on false-fronts, happy face, etc.)

2. I believe those in arranged marriages spend most of their energy prior to marrying on studying the core message of the wedding vows. (Commitment, consideration, family values, discipline, religion, etc. are all in place before even meeting your spouse in most cases.) Obviously there cannot be love until after the marriage, which means that the love develops with all of the wise "beliefs" already in place. (Logic precludes action; action precludes love, consequently love is built on strong core of values/boundaries.)

Notice that arranged marriages leave NO ROOM for "romantic-love" to happen prior to marriage. Makes you wonder how much the notion of "romantic-love" is damaging to the foundation of our marriages doesn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

FR
Posted By: NCWalker Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/04/05 03:15 PM
Wow. 80%. That is higher than I thought it was.

Yeah. The emotions.

In an arranged marriage, the parties are probably thinking "Guess we are stuck here, might as well work on it."

A feelings marriage is probably more like "I don't feel I love you anymore, guess I'll quit."

Gonna reference my other thread... It IS possible for your heart to follow your head. Even if it is right up your own a$$. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

NCW

PS - Fish, do you ever follow the Ig Nobel prizes?
Posted By: Fishracer Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/04/05 04:07 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A feelings marriage is probably more like "I don't feel I love you anymore, guess I'll quit."
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL. Oh-so-true!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">PS - Fish, do you ever follow the Ig Nobel prizes? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope. Never heard of 'em. Why - should I? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

FR
Posted By: NCWalker Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/04/05 04:12 PM
You are a physics guy, right?

The Ig Nobel prizes are awarded just like the Nobel prizes in categories of science where the research was ignoble.

The web page is the Annals of Improbable Research .

It is like a compendium of weird and goofy things from science. Pretty funny stuff.

Example: Someone actually DID an experiement where they watched butterflies flapping their wings in New York and determined if it actually changed the weather in France. Just scientists being goofy.

They have a big ceremony every year, I think at Harvard.

JL and 2 long probably know about it.

NCW
Posted By: Fishracer Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/04/05 04:31 PM
Yeah I'm a psycho-guy, errr physics-guy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I'll check out the site.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Example: Someone actually DID an experiement where they watched butterflies flapping their wings in New York and determined if it actually changed the weather in France. Just scientists being goofy.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL. My DD13 and I have these conversations all the time. (She is a classic INTJ type) Anyway; she comes up with some good ones. Started out as; does the light go off in the fridge when you close the door. (she spent 20 minutes verifying this!)

Her classic (while in science-class) is: When pregnant salmon are swimming upstream to lay eggs; and poops, does the poop make it's way to Florida? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Problem is; she was half serious!

Sorry for threadjack, but hey; I started this post! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

FR
Posted By: meremortal Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/04/05 04:57 PM
NCWAlker,

I see your point with us not having to find a soulmate in order to live a complete life.

IMHO that's what our relationship with God is supposed to be. And will we even be able to recognize or remember our earthly 'soulmate(s)' in heaven?

I am starting to really enjoy being single (been separated for 3 years - divorce still not final so not dating) I think marriage works best when the two people COULD live alone and still be happy. I think I would just prefer to not live alone the rest of my life though. I won't feel like I have to rush into marriage, or settle for somebody/anybody though.

I guess what I mean by soulmate is more like somebody you grow a healthy, loving marriage relationship with. I don't believe in the concept of there's some perfect match out there, your soulmate, and if you find them you won't have to work at creating a good marriage. Some people are obviously more suited for you, a better match. But even with them, the success of the marriage is still greatly determined by what they put into it. (OK maybe that's EASIER to do if they're more your type?) I think you can have more than one soulmate in your life IF you and your mate have the maturity and willingness to become soulmates for each other.

But this is probably not what most people mean when they say soulmate, is it?

So maybe I don't really believe in soulmates after all? LOL

What you said about arranged marriages is interesting. I never thought about that aspect of it before.

But I think I would rather have my dad than my mother, pick my husband, LOL. My mother liked my WH but my father didn't... (My mother still likes him LOL) Only 2 1/2 of my 5 sisters liked WH (but for the wrong reasons). I think only 1 of my brothers liked WH.

I doubt many of my in-laws would have chosen me for my WH to marry - LOL! I think some of them liked me until my WH started feeding them all those lies. Many of them never would have liked anyone WH married; WH's family is really more a clique than a family, that the spouses and even grandchildren are never going to be welcomed into.

In fact I'm not sure why WH was interested in me - I am SO not his type! LOL

Daughters and I frequently discuss what we think is important in a mate. And amazingly we agree quite a bit, especially on the important stuff like honesty, responsibility, being good with babies and little kids, etc. (Except they tend to like boys that are way too scrawny and silly-acting for my tastes. LOL)

<small>[ March 04, 2005, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>
Posted By: NCWalker Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/04/05 05:19 PM
Fish et al. (With Fishracer's permission because this may be a thread-jack),

OK. So we are coming around a circle and have discussed "soul-mate" and the emotions starting a relationship. Here is an intersting question.

There are those of us with custody of the children who are now single parents. And most of us would agree that a mom and dad is a good model for children to be raised under due to the presence of the male AND female role model. And as a single parent, we are faced with the difficulty in now OBTAINING this new role model.

So here is a solution: Two single parents meet and examine one anothers beliefs. If they are compatible enough they agree to live together. Not in marriage, but in a mutually beneficial agreement for the purpose of raising the children. Like a contract. Allowing them to date (kept away from the home, of course), but providing a healthy environment for the kids that is utilitarian in nature. One mortgage comes to mind as an immediate advantage.

Sound kooky, or would it work?

NCW
Posted By: Fishracer Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/05/05 06:24 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So here is a solution: Two single parents meet and examine one anothers beliefs. If they are compatible enough they agree to live together. Not in marriage, but in a mutually beneficial agreement for the purpose of raising the children. Like a contract. Allowing them to date (kept away from the home, of course), but providing a healthy environment for the kids that is utilitarian in nature. One mortgage comes to mind as an immediate advantage.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're right; it's an interesting concept and not one I've thought of before. There are additional variables not mentioned that would impact the sitch, but I will give you my initial reaction based on your scenario:

JMHO: Logically and literally (w/o emotion); the idea would be financially beneficial. Besides the mortgage, other savings might include; bulk shopping, insurance savings, baby-sitting, only one set of living needs (kitchenware, linens, etc.) would be necessary. Possible savings on vehicle-needs, home maintenance, lawn care, etc. So yes there is probably a financial gain in this idea.

Do I think it would work (real-world): Not in a million years! Well, that may be an overstatement. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I have a theory that is applicable. (With respect to the notion that there are exceptions to every rule); I do not believe that a man and a woman can ever be "friends-only" in the actual sense. There will always be one or the other who develop "feelings" that go beyond normal friendship - and due to the dynamics of a one-sided desire for more... that fact would probably ruin an arrangement like this. (Unless of course; those feeling became reciprocal and M followed!) In order for this arrangement to work as written, there would have to be a guarantee that feelings beyond friendship would not happen - and I feel this is a strong improbability.

Again - JMHO! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

FR
Posted By: noodle Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/05/05 06:28 AM
NC and FR,

I'd have to go with "no" it is not a viable option. Too many variables. No permanence, no commitment.

If you add the ingrediants that the situation would require to be stable..you have a marriage <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Nothing less will do.

Noodle
Posted By: meremortal Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/04/05 07:15 PM
"So here is a solution: Two single parents meet and examine one anothers beliefs. If they are compatible enough they agree to live together. Not in marriage, but in a mutually beneficial agreement for the purpose of raising the children. Like a contract. Allowing them to date (kept away from the home, of course), but providing a healthy environment for the kids that is utilitarian in nature. One mortgage comes to mind as an immediate advantage."


Hmmmm.... sort of like an expanded Big Brother/Big Sister program?

HEY! If you tie this concept in with what we were discussing in another thread (also started by NCWalker), the stuff about how if you serve somebody you will end up feeling love for them...

And marry it to the arranged marriage concept...

You could very likely end up with the children living in a two-parent household with the parents "falling in love" with each other.

It would sort of be like the Sarah Plain & Tall story.

I don't like the idea of a man and woman living together, posing as husband and wife in front of the kids, but dating OP. I think there is too much potential for problems. I agree with the poster who said one person might fall in love, but not the other one. Or what if one person decided to marry someone they'd been dating? It just sort of sounds like an 'open marriage'.
Imagine trying to explain it to the relatives, let alone the dates...

And if it ended up not working, the kids would just be put through another divorce type experience. Maybe if the two people made a committment to be celibate for the rest of their lives - NOT to date anyone else either? But where's the fun in that? LOL

BUT I think if the two people really did a good job of modeling to the children what a husband and wife should act like, they probably would both fall in love with each other. Still, I think it might be best (and more fun) if they appealed to each other appearance-wise, had similar hobbies, were compatible in other ways, etc. to begin with. I guess that could be at least partially taken care of by the EN's survey and committment to meet those needs? (For example - if attractiveness & shared recreational activities were top EN's of one person then the other person would make a committment to take care of those needs.)

I guess it would sort of be like doing that E-Harmony.Com questionnaire to find a suitable mate? Or somebody else (parents?) would choose a suitable mate for you like an arranged marriage. Then you go ahead and set up a household together and THEN you fall in love later? So would you not get married and not have sex with each other until/unless you fell in love with each other?

What if there were a trial period, and if the two people didn't fall in love then they could cancel the agreement and both move on to OP?
(Of course that's sort of the way many people view marriage now - isn't it?) Unless there was a committment to stay together, and NOT date OP, even if you didn't end up falling in love with each other, I don't think it would be worth the risk of putting the kids through another break-up of sorts.

Too bad the BS's can't just convince the WS's to stay married and living together, protect the marriage from OP's, agree to meet each other's EN's inside the marriage, serve each other so they will feel love for each other...

for the sake of the kids.

<small>[ March 04, 2005, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>
Posted By: Fishracer Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/04/05 07:24 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Too bad the BS's can't just convince the WS's to stay married and living together, protect the marriage from OP's, agree to meet each other's EN's inside the marriage, serve eahc other so they will feel love for each other...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MM: Cuz the grass is always greener... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

FR
Posted By: NCWalker Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/04/05 08:17 PM
Ditto to fish about the grass being greener. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Ditto to noodle about the partners. It would be akin to a marriage. And it would be inappropriate.

Only way I see it feasible is if the people were of the same sex. But then where would the male/female role model be?

Of course, on "My Three Sons" retired Uncle Charley showed up to mother the boys. But those things always work on TV.

NCW
Posted By: stormydakota Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/04/05 10:47 PM
"The difference is that I choose a person to marry. I choose to forsake all those other possible soulmates when I took my vows. It does not mean that I happiness would elude me in a partnership if I didn't have the particular lady that I married. I simply means I committed myself to her. I avoided and rejected feelings for other possible partners." I like that. It shows how important commitment is.

I also wanted to comment on arranged marriages. My parents are divorced. My Father (a white Man) married a lady from India. Almost everyone she is close to has an arranged marriage. Out of all of those friends and family members there has been only one divorce. And the others are overall very happily married.
Posted By: NCWalker Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/04/05 11:26 PM
StormyD,

Very interesting about the arranged marriages.

While deployed, I was exposed to both friendly and unfriendly countries. Both were poor. Destitute. I have never been to India, but I hear there is a huge class separation.

In the countries I was in there was significantly less crime than over here. No graffitti even. Or very little when compared to US cities of comparable size. The kids were basically good.

I believe they were too busy working too hard just to eat and have the bare essentials. This left them little free time with which to get in trouble. The idle mind and all that.

Were the families you knew of in India of such a class that they were too busy with day to day survival, or did they have enough free time for "wandering thoughts" to develop and just didn't act on them?

NCW
Posted By: meremortal Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/04/05 11:55 PM
"Only way I see it feasible is if the people were of the same sex. But then where would the male/female role model be?"

In a woman's magazine there was an article about single moms moving in together to share expenses, babysitting, carpooling, etc. It was for practical reasons. They could rent a house together in a nicer neighborhood instead of separate apartments in scarier neighborhoods... that sort of thing.
Posted By: meremortal Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/15/05 12:37 AM
bumping up because new poster (SSOM) claims MOW is his 'soulamte'...
Posted By: Alberta Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/15/05 05:07 AM
Oldtimer here...I rarely post.
I haven't even read the replies to this one...just had to say
"Soulmate, schmoulmate...what a bunch of hooey".

We have so many people in your lifetime who touch us in so many different ways. My H is the man I love, but he's not my soul mate. I have a dear girlfriend with whom I have a "telepathic" relationship with...but she's not my soul mate. Our souls touch each other daily, in different ways, with different people.

Now, God ----there's a soulmate!
Posted By: meremortal Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/16/05 03:25 AM
"Now, God ----there's a soulmate!"

I agree!
Posted By: meremortal Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/16/05 10:33 PM
bumping up for the newcomers to read
Posted By: stormydakota Re: "Soulmate" Questions! - 03/18/05 05:50 PM
My step Mom is actually considered rich in India. Although in America she is just average/middle class. There is a huge class seperation in India. I have been there before you are basically either rich or poor in India. In most cases the parents arrange the marriages. They try to find someone who they think is compatible. Then the two meet for about 15 to 20 minutes to see if they are agreeable to marry each other. If both agree to it then the families plan the weddings. My step MOm says there marriages seems much happier than most of the marriages that she has seen in America.
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