WS watching my email - what to do to help Plan A?

I have a simple question...

DDay was 2 weeks ago, and she plans on moving out in 2 weeks to lead up to a D. She's being nice, but isn't available much as she doesn't want to "be alone" with me in the evenings. She says she's "out of love" and "wants and deserves to be happy".

I'm Plan A-ing with abandon, and it actually feels nice. I'm still not eating or sleeping well, but I suppose that comes with the territory. She's made a few comments asking why I'm being so nice. I just smile and say I'm working on myself.

She is, however, reading my emails and my journal. What little seeds could I plant there to help things along?

Extropy,

Plant honest seeds, no manipulation. Write things that are true; "I realize that I need to change ______ (fill in the blank) about myself. I realize how important my wife is to me. I will do whatever I need to do to restore my marriage because I realize now how important she is to me.

[ February 25, 2005, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: legato ]

duplicate post.

[ February 25, 2005, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]

Reading your e-mails? Great! Write to friends, even use MB e-mails (some of the guys here will correspond with you) and ask your questions. Giver her an MB lesson w/o giving her the website (not good t/d with a WS). When you correspond with the MBers, you both will speak about plan A, B and other stuff. Then leave some of Dr Harley's books lying around your room. Be aloof about your e-mails and books. She asks questions, be casual and direct her to the books. WS usually don't want to read this stuff so don't be too anxious or pushy.

Take your journal out of her sight. That's for you not her. She may try to use it against you.

JMHO,
L.

duplicate post.

[ February 25, 2005, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]

Thanks for the good ideas.

If 1 or 2 folks from here could email me, I'd love to talk a bit. My email is maxout@rocketmail.com

I'm still waiting on Harley's books, but I'm partway through "Not just friends" right now.

She is confused and isn't talking. I try to schedule time with her (for lunch, for a movie, etc) and she isn't receptive. Right now it seems like the A is all we have to talk about, and I know I need to stay away from it.

So is part of Plan A being the good guy and waiting for them to recognize the changes? I want to pull her along and get her to talk and be at home so badly. I get the impression that's a LB (for now) though.

Part of plan A is for you to work and enjoy your improvements on yourself. Her seeing or appreciating any changes is a benefit not guaranteed so don't count on it. In fact it could temporarily have the opposite effect. Plan A often brings out the worst in a WS but that's a good thing. WHAT? Yep, good to confuse the Ws and see if your spouse is still out there.

But remember plan A is by you and for you. Don't be concerned how it affects the WS.

As for the e-mail request, recommend you either change the title of this thread or setup a new one referencing your e-mail so the guys know you would like to communicate with someone from here.

If you are willing to even say what state you are in, there c/b some guys closer by. Some guy MBers have been known to throw a few beer parties but I never get invited. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

Hi Extropy,

Glad you found your way over here afterall.

I'll be following you to see how things go.Welcome to GQ.Keep up the good work~

O

P.S. Weekends are a tad bit slow,don't worry.Most of us are back Monday Mornin'. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Extropy,

I would be glad to email you. Just be aware that I will view it as that I am speaking to her as well as you, since she is snooping your emails. So come here for candid advice; view emails from me as "filtered" and more directed at her.

For example, here is how I would answer your post with email:

Back off a bit on inviting her to activities. She is dealing with an addiction and is too confused right now to be good company for you; that's what affairs are, both emotional affairs and physical affairs; addiction to the other person who meets some of her needs that you were not previously meeting. She has drifted into this addiction in order to get those needs met. Try and discover what these needs are and see if you can learn to meet them. She may not be able to verbalize right now so don't push on this.

Eventually in order for the addiction to end she will need to cut off all contact with this person. When/If she does she will experience emotional withdrawal symptoms the same as if she were a drug addict; depression, anger, etc. You will need to be there to comfort her but not smother her.

This is important. Stop talking about the affair. If she brings it up, listen to what she says. But don't initiate any discussions about the affair or your relationship. Just be there to listen if she wants to talk about it. I think you understand this already since you said "I know I need to stay away from it" but I am just making sure that we are clear on this."

So that would/will be the content of my email.

To you, on this board I would reiterate, try and discover what her most important needs are. If you were not meeting those needs before, try and learn how. Plan A is:

1. Making needed improvements in yourself and
2. Negotiating for ANCFL(Absolutely No Contact For Life) with the OM(Other Man).

Also,

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> So is part of Plan A being the good guy and waiting for them to recognize the changes? I want to pull her along and get her to talk and be at home so badly. I get the impression that's a LB (for now) though.
<hr /></blockquote>Not so much waiting for her to recognize changes -most times they won't acknowledge changes because they don't want to encourage you. WS's mission is to discourage you; your job is to remain upbeat and optimistic, in spite of the fact that you, if your like I was, are emotionally shattered right now. You will need to develop the inner strength and discipline to keep your game face on at all times. WS's are repulsed by neediness and "clingy" behavior. Unfortunately, our (BS's) instincts, our fear, our low self-esteem seem to compel us to act and feel desperate.

I don't know what your religious views are but this might be a good time to consider asking God for help, as He will provide the strength that you need in order to survive this, probably the most difficult ordeal that you will face in your life.

I'm so sorry that you find yourself in this situation, but this site is the right place for you. You will get good advice and access to the tools that you need in order to deal with this.

Let me know if you think my email above would be helpful and want me to send it to you.

Ken

[ February 25, 2005, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: legato ]

Be careful about admitting too much blame. Stick to waht you are changing, not what you have done... She may be looking for evidence to use in court... I hope not, but another BS has had a problem with that. This is the cynic in me speaking

Stick to positives...like "I am concentrating on talking with her about my day and being pleasant." Don't even add in "...more." Because that implies what you did before wasn't enough.

She also may be looking for proof of an A, so she can justify her own...

Would a court actually give any credence to email hard copy? It would be so easy to just dummy up anything and make it look like it was legitimate but I would hope that a judge would be sophisticated enough to disallow it.

Not being a lawyer, I'm not an expert by any means, but evidence in a civil case is different from evidence in a criminal case.

If you admit to it being your email, then it can be allowed. When asked by a judge if you sent these emails...what would your reply be?

Yes, I think you are correct. You would probably be under oath and asked directly by the judge.

legato - That would be perfect, and I thank you for giving me clarity. She's going out with "the girls" again tonight, and plans on staying the night at a friends house so she isn't the designated driver. I don't know how I can compete with this lifestyle.

I thank everyone for their inspirational words to others and myself. All I can do is be strong myself and hope and pray she comes around.

Still - Good idea with the positives. I need to remember that in all my conversations.

On another note, a week ago we had a confrontation and we agreed she'd be out by 3/15. I realize that once she is gone it'll be harder to work on things. Would you think inviting her to stay to "get on her feet first" would be a good way?

So she reads your email. mmmmnnnn

Would it be alright if I send you an email and just say:

"******(your name) I would sure like to get to know you better.

Affectionately, Julie" with a kissy face here?

Just to throw her off a little.
My address will say from Julie Jo Johnson.
It would be more effective if I had your first name though.....

Just wanted to ask you first; we have this thread going about being a little mysterious and helping our wondering spouses to get a tiny dose of 'there may be someone else interested in us' and if they are SURE this is what they want. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> (I think WS think they have their BS wrapped around their little finger; they actually pretty much do!) <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

But it may be a good thing if they realize it IS possible that we might someday find someone else to care about and to care about us?
It might help them out of the FOG!

Sincerely, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I would drop it. Don't bring up the agreement to separate. It's harder to Plan A when you are separated. Any chance that she will forget about it without you extending invitation? Has she started making any preparations to move?

[ February 25, 2005, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: legato ]

Blessed -
I was reading that topic with interest as well. The challenge comes in with what to do when confronted. Maybe make it more innocent like lets get together to talk about our respective challenges? That way it has the potential but isn't overt? (BTW - My name is Justin)

Legato -
There is no chance she'll forget as she's actively shopping for apartments. I want to put the brakes on it, but don't know how. There is a piece of her that wants to stay, but the "I want to be happy" part is what is keeping her from coming back.

This is really confusing and the loss of sleep and headaches are killing me. I just hate the feeling of not knowing which side of the fence she's going to fall on. And it doesn't help that the best friend she goes out with all the time is splitting from her hubby.

My wife and I went through this 2 years ago when both of her sisters got divorces. She got very unhappy and told me she was leaving and she didn't want to talk. I went straight to file for D the next day and told her I'd take the boys. That got her back to the table, though she said she still resents it. In hindsight it certainly wasn't the best thing to do, but I wasn't exactly rational.

This time just feels different. She's going out 3 or 4 nights a week and not contributing around the house (she's a SAHM). She's clearly confused and depressed, and won't talk to me about any of it. I love her very much and just wish I wouldn't have been blindsided like this.

[ February 25, 2005, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: Extropy ]

Okie Dokie, I will be writing you in a few minutes...lol

Legato- i am going to disagree with you here. You know about my sitch. It is close to Ex's here. So your WW is going out with the girls "again". What you are competing with is a woman who desires to be single again.

Your WW sounds exactly like mine. Nice, but distant. Not interested in being around you, wants to go out with her friends, etc.

I would help her move out, besides, it shows a judge just who walked out on the M. The kids stay with you, here that, they stay at home with you. No if, ands, or buts. What are your D laws in your state? Hone up on them now. Are you in an at-fault state, no-fault state? It depends. If it is no-fault, I would be more comfortable in playing the "someone else is interested" game. Be careful, it may just give her justification for her A. I would reject her. I know that she is thinking this, "What is wrong with this guy? I cheat on him and yet he is such a wuss that he wants to take me back?".

I have been hearing alot of that on the Divorce board. We BH's figure it out to late. You do not want her back. You do not need her. That is the only way she will see you with any respect. And that is the chance that you got.

SAHM, even better. She is disinterested in you, but loves the lifestyle you provide her. Seriously, I honestly don't think that this is about you meeting her needs. You sound like a good guy. SHe just doesn't know what she has got. She just needs alittle help going over hte cliff. The sooner she spends those first few nights alone, without you, without her kids, with NC from you, it will sink in.

I just read a little bit more of your backstory and I do remember your sitch. Dependency/interdependency, I read that thread with interest. My STBXW was just like that. We made the same amount of monwey but anything I made was for the families benefit (house, food, other stuuf) but money she made was hers.

Here's the deal. If she is breaking away and wanting to be free (much of this fed by her GF's who are telling her how great it is to be D, etc. Misery loves company.), then any attempt by you to show that you want her, need her, is going to be seen as you controlling her. Exactly what she is running from, your control.

I don't think you are controlling, but she does, that is the point. Give her all the freedom she wants, seriously, set her free. Because with her freedom comes responsibilities. You know how much fun it really is to go to work. You go because you have bills, not because you are htis altruistic soul. Not many like that, good man, good heart, family man. Being on you own, and alone, is not much fun. Her girlfriends will never be able to fill the void of you and the kids.

I really question plan A here, to break from the MB mold, because you need to ask yourself, are you competing with an OM or are you competing with a lifestyle? Plan A and B work when it comes to breaking OM addictions, but it sounds like you have a WW in a quasi MLC.

Bear,

You're not disagreeing with me as these are not my ideas. These are MB principles that were developed by Dr. Harley.

I know Plan A didn't work out for you but does that mean that you reject the entire PlanA/Plan B concept?

Rather than argue within Extropy's thread I propose that we start a new thread to discuss where we differ, if in fact we do.

Ken

[ February 26, 2005, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: legato ]

Extropy,

You've got mail.

Blessed,

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Affectionately, Julie" with a kissy face here? <hr /></blockquote>Not a good idea IMHO. It can help WS justify their behavior - "you're doing exactly the same thing I'm doing! How dare you talk to me about my behavior!"

It's also game-playing and trickery.

Stay honest and lead by example. Keep the moral high-ground.

Hey, I don't necessarily disagree with the MB principles. It just seems to me that it is designed to be used in the case of an ongoing A, an addiction to an OP. Well, I am just asking the question, what if the addiction is not to an OP, but to a lifestyle?

I am just trying to help EX out, his sitch is alot like mine, he asks the same questions I asked. Dealt with the same things.

A WW who wants to run, if she wants to move out, you can't stop her. Just don't let the kids leave, plan A all you can, then be re3ady to go plan B. That is all, I got to go, I'll follow up later.

legato...I sent the email before reading what you wrote...I asked him to meet for coffee to discuss 'respective challenges'

signed it Your friend, Julie

I did put the little smiley faces doing a kiss on the cheek kiss...I have the cutish animations from 'smiley central' that I couldn't resist.

Problem is, my email address is 'farmerjoe'...it is in my H's name...she may wonder who Julie is with that email address! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
Justin, you can delete my note if you want.

Bear04, I wrote you a little on my thread about making WS THINK the BS might have a special friend.

Wow, fantastic dialog guys. Thanks.

I got home yesterday and she initiated talks. Said she MAY be interested in MC after she moves out. I told her that I support her efforts to find herself, but that our hard date of 3/15 isn't so hard. I told her that I didn't want her and the kids to be put in harms way by an artificial date.

Back to the topic at hand...
Bear04: I need to read your back story. I think she is VERY addicted to the lifestyle. I've only met one of these girls she goes out with, and she's going through a D right now. I'd imagine the attention she gets from guys while she is out is very exciting. She is VERY beautiful, and also insecure about her looks. Funny how that works.

She admitted to one EA with kissing and one PA that she's been involved with in the past 2 months. However she still sees nothing wrong with talking to them both b/c they are JF. I explained how that's like a knife twisting every time she talks to them, but she continues.

I have tried to invite myself along on these events so we can get some quality together time, but it was resoundly shot down. No need to beg, but at least I had to try and become a part of this new life of hers.

I live in Texas, and here the woman gets the kids 99.99% of the time. Unless she was actively shooting up heroine in front of the kids there is no way I'll get them. She knows that as well.

I think your idea of her on her own is a good one, but ultimately not viable. We already talked about me getting 1st/3rd/5th weekends too. I told her it may be best to get a job while she is living at home, then move out.

I get the feeling my A is getting through to her, as she was expecting an angry, bitter response to the situation. However she continues going out and most likely seeing one of the OM while there.

I suppose this may be another topic, but right now I wonder if I even want someone like this back. I suppose it's the ups and downs and right now I'm in a down.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Extropy:


My wife and I went through this 2 years ago when both of her sisters got divorces. She got very unhappy and told me she was leaving and she didn't want to talk. I went straight to file for D the next day and told her I'd take the boys. That got her back to the table, though she said she still resents it. In hindsight it certainly wasn't the best thing to do, but I wasn't exactly rational. <hr /></blockquote>I think it was absolutely the best thing to do, you stopped her from destroying your family. It was the most rational thing you could have done. Your children should never be allowed to be pawns of her destructive feelings de' jour. You did what a good man does, he protected his family. Too bad she resented you stopping her frm destroying your family on a whim.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Extropy:
[] Wow, fantastic dialog guys. Thanks.

I got home yesterday and she initiated talks. Said she MAY be interested in MC after she moves out. I told her that I support her efforts to find herself, but that our hard date of 3/15 isn't so hard. I told her that I didn't want her and the kids to be put in harms way by an artificial date.

[<hr /></blockquote>Extropy, I would caution you against any support of her efforts to "find herself." What she really wants to do is party on at the expense of her family. You should never support her in destroying your family, nor should you EVER EVER tell you support any such thing. Let her know that you will NOT support her and that you will not let her take the kids. Let her know that you will do everything in your power to protect them FROM HER.

I think she is very destructive and I would suggest that you do everything to protect your family. Such as contacting an attorney to get your children protected and your finances protected.

Can you imagine the life of hell your children will be doomed to if she is allowed to leave with them? They will be exposed to every scum bum she drags home from sleazy bars. Is that what you want your children exposed to?

You are the ONLY sane adult they have to protect them. You are ALL they have right now.

As their father, you must take absolutely every precaution to protect those kids. Texas judges DO NOT take kindly to mothers who whore around so I wouldn't just assume she has some kind of power in the courts. She doesn't.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Blessed TIME:

Justin, you can delete my note if you want.

Bear04, I wrote you a little on my thread about making WS THINK the BS might have a special friend. <hr /></blockquote>huh? What are you doing? Why would you send him an email like that, Julie?

Justin, I just read your email reply. THANK YOU.

After reading above message, I was afraid I had done something very wrong to send it to you.

I laughed at your comment:
"Wonder if I should get some lipstick on my collar <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> "

The thing is, life is NOT a game and maybe trying to see if our mates CARE AT ALL if we might possibly have found another, is going too far.

I don't know..........

I know Carol did that and her marriage has been recovered for 3 years; several others on the thread I started about opinions on making WS THINK there could possible be another person to take their places.

Let me just say:
I DON'T KNOW NOTHIN ABOUT NOTHIN.
And I want you to only do what you think BEST in your situation.

Justin, I won't reply to your note as it would have YOUR message on the return reply.

If you ever want me to write you, I would be GLAD to.

Just write here EXACTLY what you would want me to say.

Very sincerely, Julie Jo (Farmer Joe's wife!~lol~) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Well.. She read the note about a few hours ago and immediately confronted me with it.

She asked who Julie was, and if I was going out with her tonight. I replied that she's just a F from a BB I read to help me through this. She didn't like that answer, but after a few more questions it stopped there.

Afterwards she acted much more distant, which is either a good thing (considering what is happening) or a bad thing (realizing that it is over and is pulling back).

Right now my gut tells me I shouldn't have played this game. Just be true to myself and look after the kids' welfare and let what happens happen. I'll keep everyone abreast of what ends up.

Well, Justin, maybe it got her mind thinking a little....I sometimes get a aggravated how the WS think us BS are incapable of doing what they are doing! They think they have us around their little finger and we are sometimes taked for granted.

Does your wife use the computer for email?
Do you ever wonder if she has a secret account.

I give computer lessons and I could tell you how to find out; even how to see inside an account that you don't have a password for!

Sincerely, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Caution 2x4s coming:

This is wrong, wrong, wrong! As I stated before, why in the world do you want to give the impression that you have some side-action going on? This will only give her more justification for the party-lifestyle and extra-ciricular activities. This needs to stop now!

Do you want to restore your marriage or damage it even further?

Yes, you can bring a spouse back and intrigue them by deceiving them into thinking that someone else is interested in you but it provides no lasting or substantial improvement in the relationship; only a temporary band-aid. The issues will remain; nothing has changed. Any superficial improvement is based upon dishonesty.

Come on, high-school game-playing isn't going to solve anything!

Extropy - I re-read your post; yes, your gut tells you right in my opinion. And there is an honest way to achieve the same effect. No time to post right now. I'll try to post it here tomorrow.

[ February 28, 2005, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: legato ]