WW filed last week. Working on plan B letter...

Well - WW took me aside and God gave us a few quite moments. She confided that she filed this week. I told her I had suspected she had. She was suprised that i knew - asked how I knew. I told her that she was pretty easy to read. (I did not mention seeing the process servers phone #@ on her cell.) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I am slowly formulating a plan B letter. I have not done a good job at plan A, as I have been doing it for a year and a half through two or more affairs, but serious changes have occured in me. She has only her cell bill to be concerned with. I think she is still thinking we will live together divorced. I did not mention that plan B was iminent (I suspect an EA with a former suspect of PA)

Just wanted to update you fine folks.

I am emotionally not yet affected by this. She told me she loved me - talked about respecting each other and stuff. I told her I did not feel respected. She said "what do you mean?" (she feels not telling me about the As is respectful...) I told her the As were not respectful.

Was a quiet, respectful conversation. She later hugged me real tight, and was suprised that I hugged her back. She talked of needing to be happy - I told her I knew that she could in the marriage. She said she knew she could not. Then revisionist history like I have heard about but never experienced before - she said something about 13 years of suffering (married 14) - I told her I did not believe that.

Anyway - she is off to work today - and I am about to take the 2 younger kids to Chuck E Cheeses to burn off some old tokens.

WW told me she thinks we should tell the kids together - I told her I did not want to D and that I would tell the kids the (age appropriate) truth. She did not seem to like that.

Gotta go - (background sound - whinning...)"Daddy, can we go now????????????"

Thank you folks for your great advice. I hope to contact SH soon to talk out plan B.

far

Far,

Have fun at Chuck E's. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I remember those days....bad pizza and lots of noise. Be sure to bring some aspirin. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

As for the babble, souds like she is still trying to pull you into the fog. I mean really, what would you think if a person held you at gunpoint and told you they still loved you but was going to rob and kill you anyway? Foolish talk. Even if they said they were sad for what they were doing and that they wanted to be friends. Imagine how many brownie points they would get for that? Any time off for good lying behavior? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Yet the WS expect us to fall for that crap.

Sorry FAR, I am angry at your WS for her babble.

Hugz to you and your little ones.

L.

Sorry to hear this. But I think you need to move to Plan B. Your wife is still living in la-la land.

Good luck at Chuck E. Cheese. That place should keep your mind off of things.

It has been incredibly hard to sleep this week. I have found a couple of incriminating text messages - but have no way to find other data. I think the OM is homeless! He also has no family - except kids his xw will not let him see ( I wonder why???) LOL!

Dr. Harley said when I talked to him that he felt I had already lost her, and that my chances were better in 5 years. I hope to get some direction from him what to do in the meantime. Might be "get married to someone who respects me."

I really do not want that - but I am tired, and the alien does not resemble my W. She comes around often - but only as a taker.

Ho hum.

May be time to let her know you want to speak with your W. Ask her to let you know when your W will be released and allowed a bit of freedom. You know you need your W's presence not the WS.

It w/b interesting to see how she reacts. The WS in my case cried when I told him to go find my H. He said he wanted to find H also. Imagine that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

Wow. That is cool. I can do that.

I will bring a report.

Orchid - I said the same thing to my WH (on your advice) 2 years ago. He teared up too. But he continued to do what he was doing.

Once it is said, it is done. That is all a BS can do. It does have a tendenacy to reach deep into the fog and aim straight at the heart. Still in many cases the heart closes up again.

Sorry about how your Ws reacted believer. I still think it was worth the shot. Remember I gave that script to the WS at the time and it wasn't until 2 years later did he finally come out of the fog.

So it's not a guarantee but it is a suggestion.

L.

"It does have a tendenacy to reach deep into the fog and aim straight at the heart."

Orhid - You are exactly right. I just said it because I didn't know what else to say. I had talked and talked and talked to him. Nothing made any difference.

I think that after D-day, that was the ONLY sighting I ever had of my husband.

I have known the odds of this one working were not good. I did not come out of the fog myself until close to the end of the 1st A. I had a much better chance - IT had a much better chance - if I had come around when that A was young.

She has changed so much - is into new age stuff - still calling herself a follower of Christ - but really into entitlement stuff. I think it can be good, but if it does not support marriage it is faulty. (within reason....) She has always been new-agey. That is cool - I think that the church is very, very narrow minded. But she believes she will find happiness this way.

A good plan B will help her determine if that is the right path. She may find that for her it is. So be it.

I will always believe that saving the M is the best thing for the kids, and that she can be very happy in it.

I will hit her with that - maybe tonight. Hopefully.

Okay - getting dragged out the door. Is "dragged" a word?

New age, different name, same game..... Whatever....the point is, is she really healing or bandaging the problem.

According to dictionary.com: drag Audio pronunciation of "dragged" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (drg)
v. dragged, drag·ging, drags
v. tr.

1. To pull along with difficulty or effort; haul: dragged the heavy box out of the way. See Synonyms at pull.

So you are still writing english. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

We need to move and get into a much lower rent sitch. A lot of debt exists. I am hoping to find another house, instead of an apartment, but will do what I need. (fat chance in SoCal)

I am unsure how to approach this with plan B. Plus - she has begun plan D. I guess with D it is coming anyway. Hmmmmmm.

Anyone with experience like this?

She did not get a laywer - she is just doing the work herself and using a filing company - as far as I can tell. She does not have much funding.

About the D - I am thinking of suggesting we move back to Texas - near most of our family. I think that having them avialable will be beneficial. Any thoughts? (Yes - I know - I will not move to East Texas - I prefer the big city..... I have long believed that if Dallas was where Tyler is it would be almost perfect...)

If she is working on the D w/o a lawyer then it w/b harder for her as a WS and that's a good thing. Act as if she will get the D but don't help her get it. She will probably ask you to get paperwork and stuff....mine did, I told him to go get it himself. His answer was 'but the paperwork is in the house'. My reply was, 'yea well go get it when I am not here.' He said, but you changed the locks. Hm.... oh yea. well guess you will have to find another way to get the paperwork....call the companies and ask for copies. LOL!!! He didn't like that, called me uncooperative and lots of other bad words. LOL!!! I just shrugged my shoulders and told him to go be A creative. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> While I continued to watch my back!

You review your financial options carefully. U r in the state of community property so make sure you get sound legal advise.

take care,
L.

Orchid - thanks!

I wonder if my plan B is less of that and might be more of a trial separation during D proceedings. But it sounds like you have a fairly similar experience.

I really want to vent at WW right now. I have a bucket full of DRs to throw at her - many based loosly on facts - but I know that I can not, and that I must protect the verbage of the letter from any shade of that. Only the facts, ma'am.

Orchid - thanks for jumping into my life.

I am really soul searching right now. I am sure most of you know what I am talking about. Changing - becoming so much more than I was. My mind occasionally wanders to the "what ifs" of D - but I know in my soul that that is the wrong path.

Thanks, Orchid. I will try to contact a Harley tomorrow - I will keep you posted.

Meanwhile - I type the Plan B letter....
I am waiting to start posting it and editing until after I talk to a Harley.

far

Have you discussed your wife getting a job?

When are you planning on seeing a lawyer?

Why not sooner?

She has a 20 hr/week job. She could do 40 if she needed, I think.

The job introduced her to one with whom I suspect a PA.

Plus - she gets a lot of make attention at work. I think she likes having the options.

Okee Dokee. This weekend went well. She has shown more physical affection than in the last 4 months. (meaning she hugs back) She has actually made a few deposits into the bank. I was starting to feel as if things were looking up.

But now I suspect she has gone to OMs place. I think she left work early and will show up not too late - to avoid detection. But she is not too worried about detection.

Oh yeah .... did I hear something about a rollercoaster???

BTW - I have yet to be served. How long does it take? She told me it was already registered with the court or something like that.

Here is rough draft A of Plan B:

Quote

My dearest *** -

I am sorry you have to be reading this right now, I am also very sorry that I have to be writing it.

I sincerely apologize for the pain I have caused by not meeting your needs. By not responding to your cries for help. I will regret that for the rest of my life. I have been, and will continue to work on anything about myself that has contributed to making our marriage an unhappy place for you.

It is with a heavy heart that I write the following lines. While I am willing to do anything and everything to save our marriage and prove my love for you, I can not stand by and watch while everything that was once important to us both is destroyed.

I still want to love you. You have chosen to continue your affairs. I have chosen to allow our life together to continue to this point, because I wanted to show you that I still love you and our marriage can be saved. I think I have said and done everything I can.

At this point in my life I have to remove myself from this craziness. Until you can put an end to your relationships with other men and commit to working on our relationship, I think any more contact with you would be harmful to me. I believe we need to separate.

I am searching for a lower rent house that is still in this school district. We will need to work out the schedule of when the kids will live with each of us. We should ask (friend/tennant) if she will be a third party that we can utilize for transfer of the kids. I understand that finding a place to live will be hard on you right now, and I hate that it has to be this way. Unfortunately, allowing our lives to continue this way is hard on me, and the kids.

I am sorry I did not take this action a year ago. It would likely have been much more effective at that point. But at this point - until you end any relationships outside of our marriage and come to the marriage willing to follow the prescription for survival set forth by Dr. Harley - I must take action to protect the love for you that remains in me.

Dr. Harley's plan can be summed up in this statement: Become aware of each other's emotional needs, and meet them.

For the last year and a half, I have attempted to determine your emotional needs, and to meet them as I understand them. You have not allowed me to meet all of your emotional needs. You have been unwilling to discuss your needs with me, and to work together to meet each other's needs.

It seems as if you believe that your happiness will come with freedom from our marriage. You have been selectively taking from our marriage what you feel you deserve, and not allowing me to provide for other needs. I ask that you consider in six months the happiness you have found outside the marriage. If it is all that you wanted - then so be it. If you have not found the happiness you search for, I ask that you give our marriage a chance to provide it for you.

Please understand that I still love you very much. I just cannot continue to support your current behavior. I hope and pray that you decide to put an end to you relationships with other men so we can focus on building the marriage we both deserve. I love being your husband and look forward to showing you what that means.

One wierd, unfortunate twist. WW has been unofficially diagnosed with high blood pressure, to the extent that before even being seen, the doc has prescribed a very low dose until her visit. WW gets very ill feeling, and her blood pressure fluctuates like crazy. I am certain her life is taking it's toll on her. I had decided that this was a prime time to step up to the plate and take wonderful care of her. She seemed to have broken comm. with this OM. But tonite has pushed me over the edge.

Please help me out. I know this is a weird letter - does not follow the outline saw somewhere else, and totally ripped off from DontKnowMuch. I personalized it a bit.

Here we go.....

far

"Dr. Harley's plan can be summed up in this statement: Become aware of each other's emotional needs, and meet them.

For the last year and a half, I have attempted to determine your emotional needs, and to meet them as I understand them. You have not allowed me to meet all of your emotional needs. You have been unwilling to discuss your needs with me, and to work together to meet each other's needs.

It seems as if you believe that your happiness will come with freedom from our marriage. You have been selectively taking from our marriage what you feel you deserve, and not allowing me to provide for other needs. I ask that you consider in six months the happiness you have found outside the marriage. If it is all that you wanted - then so be it. If you have not found the happiness you search for, I ask that you give our marriage a chance to provide it for you.

Please understand that I still love you very much. I just cannot continue to support your current behavior. I hope and pray that you decide to put an end to you relationships with other men so we can focus on building the marriage we both deserve. I love being your husband and look forward to showing you what that means."

I suggest that you skip all of this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Believer - thank you. I will delete it and see how it feels.

I am thinking of adding, towards the end:

Quote

I was so looking forward to being your hero during this time of physical need in your life. You are making it clear how you appreciate it.

I may just be lashing out with that one.

far

So here it is, edited:

Quote

My dearest *** -

I am sorry you have to be reading this right now, I am also very sorry that I have to be writing it.

I sincerely apologize for the pain I have caused by not meeting your needs. By not responding to your cries for help. I will regret that for the rest of my life. I have been, and will continue to work on anything about myself that has contributed to making our marriage an unhappy place for you.

It is with a heavy heart that I write the following lines. While I am willing to do anything and everything to save our marriage and prove my love for you, I can not stand by and watch while everything that was once important to us both is destroyed.

I still want to love you. You have chosen to continue your affairs. I have chosen to allow our life together to continue to this point, because I wanted to show you that I still love you and our marriage can be saved. I think I have said and done everything I can.

At this point in my life I have to remove myself from this triangle. Until you can put an end to your relationships with other men and commit to working on our relationship, I think any more contact with you would be harmful to me. I believe we need to separate.

I am searching for a lower rent house that is still in this school district. We will need to work out the schedule of when the kids will live with each of us. We should ask xxx if she will be a third party that we can utilize for transfer of the kids. I understand that finding a place to live will be hard on you right now, and I hate that it has to be this way. Unfortunately, allowing our lives to continue this way is hard on me, and the kids.

I am sorry I did not take this action a year ago. It would likely have been much more effective at that point. But at this point - until you end any relationships outside of our marriage and come to the marriage willing to follow the prescription for survival set forth by Dr. Harley - I must take action to protect the love for you that remains in me.

I was so looking forward to being your hero during this time of physical need in your life. You are making it clear how you appreciate it.

Please understand that I still love you very much. I just cannot continue to support your current behavior. I hope and pray that you decide to put an end to you relationships with other men so we can focus on building the marriage we both deserve. I love being your husband and look forward to showing you what that means.

With all the love that is left,
far

bump

It sounds good FAR. I think you should get ready to send it.

I would try to discover her newest conquest and expose right before you send it though. It helps with her not being able to deny it. And to come up with lies and false accusations.

So I would say find out what she is upto, expose it...then drop Plan B letter on her and go dark.

If she comes back, then you will get your chance. If she doesnt, you probably didnt have a chance anyway for her to pull her head out.

In His arms.

thanks, Mortar. Good news - she left without logging off this morning. If I am good I will be able to re-set her spyware doctor to avoid my keylogger.

But she is paranoid as ****** - to the point of creating medical issues - and checks for spyware like crazy.

I HAVE determined that she is still pining over the OM from the first affair. He is the childhood friend, with whom she had a year long affair. It will be tough for her to get over that one. But I am ready for B, and will get the intel.

She said in a coversation recently (OH how I wish that I had recorded it) - that "the reason she went bad was ... yada"
She outright admited that she has chosen the wrong path. I noticed she is also doing astrology stuff. I wonder if the stars have indicated that she will be looking for apartments...

Her OM1 is in Texas - she will try to flee. I will need to get the lawyer set up before I drop plan B i guess....

More to write later. Trying to figure out how to get keylogger going again....

Poor woman is obsessed. (he says, after updating spyware on her computer)

She has been searching for info on OM1 - I suspect he is not talking to her - but may have fathered a child with the GF he dumped ww for.

boy - this plan B thing is kinda difficult with young kids and dogs and stuff. But I am ready.

any more advice on plan B letter??

far

FAR, how are the kids?

Advice on plan B letter? Send it!

Take care of yourself and your children Found....

I plan B'd my XW after our divorce...had no idea what a Plan B was...but now I do...and it worked....for me...and for many others...I admire your strength...

The whole letter is a downer.
It should be positive & upbeat about your past relationship & what your future relationship can be.

Start with the Plan B letter in "Surviving An Affair".

Here is a how a Plan B letter should be structured.

1 – I love you
2 - Our marriage was good because…
3 – I apologize for things in the past such as…
4 – Your affair hurts. No contact. Arrangements made through friend…
5 – We can have a great marriage and this is what I would like…
6 – I love you

Try not to mix the messages in each paragraph.

FF -- the kids are good. We are/were planning to homeschool the 1st grader - but he may need to join the public school. He tells mom occasionally that he is glad that mommy and daddy married. He loves his parents.

WW is ordering books and downloading data on how to tell the kids about a D. I already know - age appropriate truth. WW may be thinking that "mommy and daddy have decided" but daddy is gonna say "daddy does not want it - mommy wants it". WW will not like that. She keeps telling the kids to not stop loving her.

I think the niceness she has been showing this weekend is a snow job. Still - she is being nicer. She will not be too happy when she detects spying. I do not think that I will get any intel - but just knowing that I was on her computer will push her over the edge. Likely to not be nice after that....

The kids are well, and will do OK. WW is a pushover and has extreme issues with boundaries with her kids. Never likes to say "no". That has been an issue for a long time. I have not ever really put my foot down, and it is creating some kids that will have issues with the real world - but God will take care of them - and I will keep listening to His guidance.

Thanks for pointing out the main thing.

far

Send - thanks for the encouragement. I need it. I see a possible ending I hope for (happily ever after...) but also see many other endings. (still good, I guess) Except for WW. I feel like she will not find what she is seeking, if she continues looking where she is looking.

Still - thanks for the encouragement.

I will watch out for the kids.

far

Chris - thanks for your advice. I will pull out the book, and see what I can do.

I know positive is better. I just have not got many positively charged atoms left.

I will see what I can do.

far

FAR-
I have no opinion on your Plan B letter- Im horrible with those, I tended towards bluntness and coldness with my H when I started my plan B (which lasted 48 hours HAHAHA). BUt that's what worked with my H and I dont know your wife (add that Im biased and dislike her for hurting you, Id probably advise removing all the nice stuff hehehe).

Are you going for custody then? Does she know this?

The fact she isnt using a lawyer just cracks me up-- I cant believe the amount of WSs that try this tactic and expect it to work. Some actually think they are doing their spouses a favor by saving them money. My sister's first husband (abusive) tried this and it cost him. She's ending her second marriage now and her WS also tried using stuff from online so "it wouldn't get ugly." He didnt know my parents gave sis the money for a lawyer.

Have you done your 180s? Which ones did you choose? How have they made you feel about yourself? I started a new one this week- being direct about finances with my husband. Its caught him off guard, but Im feeling less anxious about where we are at and where we will be. I've also caught him doing financial things behind my back lately- not bad, he tried to buy me a car he knew I wanted when we retire, but we really can't afford it right now. Thankfully I caught him right before he signed for it! (it was a MINI Cooper, I had one last year but traded it for an Escape because the baby was on his way)

Do you have a time frame to start Plan B in?

Lowering the daily costs in your life is a great move-- a lot of people dont want to make the sacrifices required to make headway. I know that I used finances as an excuse to stay after my husband's first affair. Im glad I know more now!

Im probably not helping much, but wanted you to know we still think about you here. ((LOgan sleeps through the night already! from 12:30am- 9am! He's 11 weeks old now.)

Mojo - good to hear your voice.

I will go for joint custody. She has greatly curtailed her drinking (she found my journal where I was documenting, and realized she was up a creek). She is a good mother, aside from an altered set of morals regarding M. She is kinda going off the deep end in the spiritual department - but it offers justification for her "persuing her happiness".

I think she is in a new A. She has been being WAY nicer to me lately - accepting more physical affection and stuff. Oddly enough - I think that is an indication she is getting an emotional need met - that I am not meeting.

I did not do major 180s. I made some major changes in my life - and still am working on that - but I do not know that she sees or cares.

I am thinking of starting plan B around October. I have a lot of financial stuff to clear up, and paying the lawyer is gonna be hard right now. Plus - I am not incredibly brushed up on the legals of Plan B. Is there an online guide - a checklist?

Congrats on the baby! Good to hear he is a good sleeper.

My reserves are low for fighting for the M. I have used up most of what I had. My feelings are changing, and at this point - though I still love her and wish it would work - my main motivation for making it work is the kids.

Gotta make those financial sacrifices. But I am a procrastinator. I heard recently that the evil one loves procrastination in relationships. I gotta get over that one... and start creating a major crisis.

Good to hear from you. Please visit often.

far

I am aware that the process server is trying to find me. I will be out of town some this week - so I can not get served until Friday at the soonest.

I talked to Dr. H on the radio. He said to stick with plan A until I get served, then go to plan B.

Mortar - I just read the last two weeks of Gramn's thread. I do not know if you feel it - but you are writing to more than one person, bro. Everything you wrote could have been written to me.

I think Gramn will do well. I do not see my case as positively. But I am ready for the craziness to end. WW thinks she will get a D and still live in the same house. I am not tipping my cards. I am gonna find a different laywer - I do not get a good feeling about the one I have talked to.

I do not think I would win more than 50% custody in a battle.

WW will be hurting when we move apart. We are in an area where cheap apartments cost $1200 a month, and she works hourly as an assistant manager. She will really have to ramp up the hours. I might propose 50% custody, and hire her to be childcare for the times I work.

Comments??

I am fighting for the M just for the kids at this point. It would be best for them to be in complete family - but I have re-evaluated the worth of WW in my life, and the kids are my only reason for fighting.

I now completely understand the Harley idea of plan Aing so much - it burns out all that is left, and I believe a lot less pain and suffing will occur if the D comes to fruition.

On the brighter side - I am positive about life, and positive about life with or w/o my wife. I am a new man, changed in many ways. I see a very bright future with my kids. I am developing goals, and a way to reach them. A plan to get out of debt.

"And that's the update from Lake Woebegon."

God is great!!

Quote

WW thinks she will get a D and still live in the same house.

Geez FAR, are you WW and my WH from the same planet? My WH wants the D but nothing to change?? Sounds like yours does too. You sound really good, how are the kids?

As far as I know the kids are unaware of the circumstances. DD12 knows the relationship is on the rocks, and wishes strongly that it would heal. WW wants us together to tell the kids - so she said a couple of weeks ago when she told me she filed. She has not said anything since. I am not sure she will like my position: "Mommy wants a divorce. I do not, and am trying very hard to make it not happen, and to help mommy be happy". She is very connected to her kids, and spends a lot of time with them. That is the roughest part of this for her. She says to them sometimes: "please do not hate me, ok?"

FF - your post is encouraging. I appreciate it.

far