I started a debate in one place so I thought I would move it elsewhere. I stated most men are not good at expressing their feelings. Usually men have to be given some help in being able to identify feelings. Either they need a feelings chart, or they need a questionare, or they need a counselor to guide them, but to just sit down and talk feelings, men don't do well. If you think about it what one feeling are most men allow to express growing up? Well in sports it's agression. All the other times they are told to be a man, be tough, men don't show feelings. Any guy ever heard that before?

Guys, you want to comment?

My father is a Vietnam vet. Sure enough he would tell me to suck it, be tough' play football, blah, blah, blah. But, I was raised to talk about problems immediately before they became so big that it would be too difficult to resolve.

At the same time my FWW was taught by her twisted mother to never express feelings that may rock the boat. Don't say anything and the problem will go away on its own and everything will be just fine. Her father is an alcholic, child sexual abuser (her) and hasn't worked for 35+ yrs.

Hmmm... maybe it wasn't a good idea to stay quiet after all Mom.

Yes, that is a disrespectful judgment <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I express feelings all the time. I get excited about the new cars when they come out. I express joy when my team does well. I am satisfied when I do well at work. I'm express happiness when I get a great deal. I express anger when someone cuts me off in traffic.

When I hear someone say men don't express feelings, I have to wonder if women are actually paying attention. We express feelings all the time.

However, we are not always enthusiastic about the same things you are. So when you say men don't express their feelings, do you really mean, men don't feel strongly about the same things women do.

I would agree with that, and that takes your comments out of the category of disrespectful judgments.

T

Amen, Confused EH

I think men do and will discuss their feelings...when asked!!
We seem to be reluctant to bring them up.

And even when asked "what,s wrong" we will usually say "Nothings wrong".

Maybe it's being the strong and silent type.

Now after a couple Grey Goose martinis I seem to be able to vocalize much better, but have a hard time remembering what was actually said the next day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

k

wow that is an eye-openning comment to me!!!

That is not a "male" behavior. When I asked my now ex-wife what was wrong, her answer was nothing, right up to the day she said she didn't love me and wanted to move out.

I am not comfortable with labeling this as a male/female behavior.

T

I can express my feelings quite well when I choose to do so. The fact is, I seldom choose to. I think that some men are uncomfortable expressing feelings in the conventional way that a lot of women do (counseling, friends, etc.). That is a far cry from saying that men don’t possess the ability to express their feeling. Perhaps they just choose not to.

Not all men enjoy sitting in a circle and getting all weepy discussing how their parents did them wrong and caused all their problems. Frankly, I would rather just hit something when I’m mad than to have a two-hour cathartic cry/b!tch session. If I have strong feeling AND I have the need to communicate it YBYSA that I will express those feelings in the way I choose.

I just wanted to point out that this debate stems from a lack of understanding on AskMe's part about the definition of emotional needs. His premise is that since men often tend to be confused about their feelings, therefore they cannot possibly know their emotional needs. He is not familiar with Marriage Builders principles, hence the confusion. Here is my post to him on the thread in question:

AskMe, this is where I think you are confused and why I have asked you numerous times to read about the concept of emotional needs. You are not distinguishing between "feelings" and emotional needs and don't have the slightest understanding of Marriage Builders principles.

You are talking about feelings, we are talking about emotional needs. They are different things. We are not talking about sad, happy, angry; we are talking about actions that faciliate emotional happiness that leads to love, such as conversation, admiration, attractive spouse, sexual fulfillment.

These are easily identifiable by taking the emotional needs questionaire. Men have no trouble identifying their most important needs that bring them happiness in a marriage. No more so than women.

Please read up on it so you understand what we are talking about. I have given you the links. I think you will find that "Dr. Harvey" is one smart fella. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Amen MelodyLane!!

Boy I was starting to get frustrated!!!

AskMe's larger point being that since men often have trouble describing their "feelings," therefore, they can't know their emotional needs.

10Swords <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think Melody is right in that learning about Emotional Needs is learning about what makes your partner and yourself happy or fulfilled in your M.

It is my experience that Women want Men to be capable of feeling, but don't really want us to show it that often... for example, when I sobbed the one time openly after learning about the A... it didn't "touch" my W in a positive way... it just made her feel sick, confused, and scared.

I have found that my wife feels I am not a good communicator... often will say my day was "fine" and leave it at that, or will not listen well... judge, interupt, etc... (my listening skills to advice offered is also a weakness <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) But from my perspective, my W never seemed really interested in my day at work... wouldn't listen or question me and I learned not to "bother". I also found that we communicate in different ways... I do not talk alot with "idle" chatter that most people want to talk about... ie. the events of your day, today's news headlines, etc... I enjoy talking more indepth on debate type issues... religion, economics, ethics... etc.
Finally, for listening, I was "bombarded" day after day with complaints about my W's work, co-workers, friends, etc.. until I tuned out and stopped listening. I used to try to offer advice or "fix" it for her, but gave up trying. Now I understand that my W did not want me to fix it for her... just to listen and empathize.

At our first session with our MC, she turned to my W and said, "obviously communication is not a problem of your H, as he is doing an extremely good judge of talking and sharing here today."

Delving into emotional needs is not asking am I doing enough... it is finding out what my spouse needs from me to help her feel happy and fulfilled and what I need from her to do the same. And then we discuss ways in which we can meet each other's needs. We don't need to change anything if it makes us uncomfortable... but we also don't need to stay married.

Shaden

Actually I understand exactly what I am talking about. And hence I posed the question as I posed it.

I'm editing to add a little more.....the problem is men can't or don't always express their feelings. Ok, they know inside an emotional need. Now how do they translate that to they way a woman can relate to it? Men don't have the same wide vocabulary most women do when it comes to feelings. Stereotyping for a moment, but what do women read that men don't read, romance novels. Romance novels contain a lot of feeling words that men never use. So women tend to have a bigger vocabulary of feeling words than men, plus they tend to talk relationally to each other, where men don't.

Again I go back to my last sentence... "We don't need to change anything if it makes us uncomfortable... but also we don't need to stay married."

If this is really important to your wife, then it is worth learning how to express your feelings more.

But I would also suggest that your W may not need for you to express your feelings exactly like she does... but express them in your own way and talk about what this means.

Everyone thinks and communicates in two ways... emotionally and intellectually... generally speaking (but not always), women are stronger at communicating emotionally where men are stronger intellectually. But we can all learn both ways. When my wife talked to me about her work, I was thinking intellectually... "how do you fix it", "why don't you look at it from this angle", "if you have that attitude it will never get better", etc.. when all she really wanted was for me to hear her, ask questions and probe, find out how it made her feel, and only offer advice or solutions if she asked. She didn't need the advice... she knows how to fix it, she just needed to reason it out in her own mind by venting to someone who would listen. This is called by some... soul listening... being really in tune with what they are saying and feeling because you are really listening.

The same thing when we communicate... it may not be with as many words as women, but to let them know that they are important by sharing details of our day that are important to us. This takes practice from both sides. But this communication builds intimacy and creates the connection (along with other EN's)

Shaden