Posts and history under DO I END IT, NO MORE TEARS.

My thanks to all of you for the time you’ve invested in reading my posts and giving advice for my situation. My H is now out of town until Monday. I am hoping for some peaceful time with myself, my DD and God.

If you read this and truly believe in the power of prayer, please pray for me. If you believe that God can answer prayer, please pray.

I apologize up front for the length of this post. I just really need advice from those who have been in a similar situation (abuse, steps, etc.) I’ve taken to heart a lot of what you all have said and I’m wanting to make a decision this weekend, God willing.

I believe that in many respects my situation is similar to so many others posting here. The A, the lack of respect. The disregard for the marriage. The double standards. Many of you believe that what separates my situation from many others is the extreme verbal abuse, the minimal physical abuse but potential for more, the threats of exposure of my past, the comments from my H that he has thought about killing me in my sleep, etc.

My history is all under the posts mentioned on the first line above. The emotional abuse that I have endured for the past few years has really taken a toll on my ability to see light at the end of the tunnel, much less the possibility of a happy marriage. I know that I married too quickly. You know, the lonely divorced woman with a small child that rebuilds her life and then finds that everyone around her is in a relationship but her and she’s lonely.

I allowed my H to push me toward marriage. That should have been a red flag but I was totally infatuated. I considered myself so smart. I thought that because my H was a relative of someone who had married into my family, that God had brought this person into my life and was giving me peace about bringing someone into my DD’s life.

I did not take the time to truly get to know the situation between my H and his kids (SD, SS) and his EXW. Big mistake. Their manipulation of my H and their actions toward me and my DD are a big part of our problems now. They are now grown but not gone; out of house only. They both want me out. I did not deal with them well at all but I also had no choice over many things that went on that affected me, my child, my home, my finances.

Now, I need to make a decision. The fence sitting I’ve done for the last 2 years (heck the last 4-5 years) is no longer an option. The saying “Harsh words break no bones but they do break hearts” is so true. I do not believe that I love my H any longer. I care for him and I care about what happens to him but I am not in love with him. He tells me that he is very much in love with me but I don’t see how he could yet still do the things he does to me.

My H’s biggest problem with me is two-fold. I lie and I have not left the church where he believes I carried on an A w/a man that goes there. I saw on someone else’s post (guess it’s a signature line) that if you are doing something that you wouldn’t do if your spouse was there, then it’s cheating. So, perhaps I did. Here’s my list of “I never dids”: Never alone, never met anywhere, no correspondence of any kind such as email, snailmail, voicemail, phone contact, etc. I did call him once to ask him about something my H told me and to alert him to the fact that my H believed something was going on and to tell him I was sorry he was getting caught up in my situation. I see this person probably 3-5 times per month and never outside church. He knows that I am still married and he is dating others.

My H says he had people from church tell him that I was chasing after this other guy. I did talk to him a lot and I parked near him. My H never bothered to come to church except to sit in the parking lot and threaten that he was going to confront the other guy when he came out of church. He never did. He came to church on several occasions (according to him) in other people’s vehicles to spy on me. He says he saw me on many occasions talking to this guy. Others went back and told him I was. I told the guy what was going on and backed off the friendship over a year ago.

I will say that the constant threats from my H about this guy, the constant verbal abuse over him and the constant questioning by my H about him have made me think about the possibility of a relationship if/when I divorce. I wouldn’t have an A but my mind does wander.

My H resumed a relationship (he says platonic) with his second EXW after he says he saw me talking to OM. He brought her into our home to help him w/company paperwork. If I didn’t do what he wanted me to do he would threaten that he would get her to help him and that she would be glad to do so. I saw two letters from her to him that she wanted us to divorce so she would have a second chance. They still talk occasionally.

Then, he started a relationship w/a woman he met via our company. He was at her house to do the work but continued talking w/her afterward. I’ve seen cell phone bills where he has talked to her at 1 and 2 AM and the calls are to and from her. The longest I saw was 62 minutes; the average around 4 or 5. I live about 30 minutes away and cannot easily check to see where he is late at night but I often don’t get him if I call the home phone. He hid the Nov/Dec cell phone bills but I found them. He took them and hid them again. The Jan bill is nowhere to be found but the part you return w/payment was there. He set up online account to view bill and I don’t have access so I imagine I would see more of the same if I did see the bill.

He has told me that all I have to do is stop going to the church I’m going to and he will do whatever it takes to make our marriage work. When he had the A, I never told anyone and he refused counseling. Now, he says he will go to counseling (we went about 4 times, 2 counselors and then stopped). People who are close to the situation believe that he will say and do whatever is necessary to get me back home and that within 5 or 6 months he’ll be back to the same old stunts.

So, I need to make a decision. I don’t approve of divorce although this is my second marriage. I married before becoming a Christian the first time. I do believe that the first divorce was for the best for me and DD. Deep down inside where you are most honest with yourself I believe that divorce is also the right answer in this case. We have 9 years of unresolved issues, one PA and two EAs for my H that I know of and one EA that my H accuses me of. Add to that the step kid issues, the verbal/physical abuse, the threats of suicide and I don’t see a way to make it better.

I know that w/God all things are possible and I know that God loves him just as much as he loves me. I know that God hates divorce and that God’s plan is for there to be no divorce. When we first separated I cried all the time. I constantly begged him to change things so that I could come back home and try to work things out but he kept doing the things that caused me to leave. Then, he escalated the verbal abuse and started throwing things, pushing me around. When I asked for a divorce he threatened suicide.

I have a gut feeling that he wants the security I can provide him over wanting me for me; my salary, my insurance, my help w/company and take care of home, etc.

I know that every situation and every person is different. Some of you may look at this and say, “Not me. I’d have been gone after the A.” Or, “I’d have been gone the first time he called me sl*t, b**ch, etc.”. Some of you may say, “A marriage takes two giving 100% and I can make this work.”

I need advice from those of you who have been where I am now with a similar set of circumstances. How did you decide? If you decided to file for divorce, what happened that gave you the push you needed to go forward? If you decided to stay, how did you handle the fear of abuse and how did you get past all the things that happened to make you leave?

bump up

life2short,

Where and how is your daughter through all of this? You are her role model. Do you want her to think that this kind of treatment is normal? Do you want her to be a volunteer victim in the future?

Remind me of your husband and his family's good points - I've forgotten.

My daughter is with me. She is tired of it and wants a resolution, too. No, I don't want her to think it's normal behavior and I've tried to shield her from as much as I can but, she is far from stupid. Apparently she doesn't take after me.
No, I don't want her to follow in my footsteps. I want her to be a strong woman and very unlike me. I do not act in this manner in any other aspect of my life. But,when it comes to relationships, I have a really hard time. I have let him walk all over me and I can't seem to stop it.

Is the situation that I am in very different from what so many others face and, if the answer is yes, in what ways?

Well, I went over that with the IC I went to. Pros and cons. The cons side was a full page. The pros about 3 or 4 and most had to do with him already knowing my past and not having to start all over w/that baggage in a new relationship.

I have to ask again though. Is my situation so very different from so many others that post here? Has my H crossed a line with the emotional abuse that should dictate divorce? I know that no one here can tell me to divorce but I am very much interested in the advice of those who have been down a similar road.

I don't have a relationship with any of his family. His kids are around and I know that kids reach a certain age where you don't really have any control over them but you can control what they do around you and in your house.

Life..while your situation and mine are not necessarily the same, the abuse is. My stbx's abuse comes from alcohol and severe childhood abuse that he's unwilling to see. It's just too much so he tries to drown it with anything that will numb his brain.

The difference being there's nothing that he can "hold over my head" as far as my past mistakes. He just calls me pious and believe you me, I'm anything but pious. But by the Grace of God go I. I know if my parents had been his parents, I would have probably been institutionalized. They traumatized me and soon after our marriage, I rarely went around them.

In the past I too have grappled with the dilemna...what if I'm exiting out of this relationship when God has plans for me here to glorify Him. Living in abuse and neglect, seeing your child suffer from his insanity and losing my own life because he refused to deal with his own could not possibly glorify God. God hates divorce, He doesn't forbid it. When staying does more harm than leaving then it's clear that it's over.

There's a time when we use the faith that God gives us. We're not required to live a "mistake free" life but one in which we put our trust in Him. In God's Word we're given clear justification for divorce-unrepentant adultery and abandonment by an unbelieving spouse. God gave us these specific perimeters that allows divorce. So you see life2short, you are within God's will in a divorce.

I remember when I grappled just as you are now. It took me getting out of the insanity of the abuse, relax and begin to see life's possibilities to find peace...with myself and with God's will.

life,

I think that you should write a Plan B letter explaining to your WH that you can't have ANY contact with him until he has ended his As and contact to the OPs completely and forever and he has committed himself to IC to deal with his abuse issues and has also agreed to MC. Then you should go very, very dark. During this time you should think about what you've said above. You are not taking care of yourself. You need to learn how to set healthy boundaries for yourself.
God wants you to be the best person you can be. Participating and exposing your daughter to an abusive lifestyle is surely not what God has in mind for you.

(((((life))))))

What is your plan to extracate yourself from the business....

why do you have to move to a divorce right now..
why can't you go totally no contact with him and remove yourself from his world..with clearly defined boundaries...that would take atleast a year for him to comply with...then divorce...if not met

and why won't you let God forgive you for whatever silly stupid things you did when you were a teeneager when you do exactly what is asked of us..to reconize behaviors that weren't good or nice...and change them ...

you are not a fourty year old woman acting like a fifteen year old..so why do you let a man punish you for what is not his to punish you for..

why do you speak of God over and over...and yet deny and refuse his forgiveness...all based on the threats and chaos from a MAN who is not a man...but acts like a selfish teenager....and blames you for his own actions...

why are you stuck there...

why don't you forgive yourself.....and then your husbands empty bullstuff that goes on and on and on and on...about what you did twenty some years ago...will mean nothing....
to you OR to anyone else...

isn't a person here that hasn't done things in the past that they don't like or were bad....but they don't and can't stay stuck in them...

ARK

I told you about the missing cell phone bill. I now know I would have seen more of the same.

My H is out of town for the weekend. I have discovered his voicemail password. Checked it this morning.

"Hi Handsome. I have been thinking about you all day today. Blah Blah Blah. If I don't hear from you before I will talk to you on Monday. I love you."



He has been giving me so much grief about going to church because this guy might be there yet he, at the least, has been carrying on an EA, possibly PA!

Now I know why if I call late at night he doesn't answer the home phone but will answer the cell phone.

So, now we have one A, two EAs with at least one of those possibly a second PA. Add that to all the rest.

As for the business, he has assured me that he can get any number of women to help him w/the paperwork. My plan was to give him the business outright. Now I'm not so sure.

Regarding As, does this add anything to the mix in terms of settlement? Should I try to get more proof or just let it and him go?

There's a part of me that wants to go to her house and confront her. Tell her what he has done to me and what kind of person he is but, she probably won't listen. I'm sure he has made me out to be a witch and she has found the catch of her life. I'm sure I just don't understand him.

If I did confront I'm sure he would do everything he could to hurt me w/past and not letting me get stuff out of house, etc.

I'm hurt even though I know it's over and has been for some time. I'm mad that he would put me through what he has while all the time carrying on w/someone else.

Ok guys. Really need some advice here.

I don’t know how many of you believe in prayer. Don’t know how many of you who saw my post and prayed but…………….

Did I find the voicemail because God is allowing my suspicions to be confirmed? I have been praying that God would give me a sign. Is this my sign? This is how I found out about the first affair. I never thought it was an OW but, something just wasn’t right so I snooped. This time everything is wrong and our marriage is in as worse a condition as it has ever been.

So, do I try to get evidence, such as video or pictures, of him at her house or them together or do I leave it alone and move forward w/D? Would it be of any benefit to me, other than righteous indignation, to gather evidence?

I don’t want a long drawn out nasty divorce. I would rather leave a few thousand on the table than draw it out fighting over stuff. Plus, even though I wish I didn’t have to think about it, if I make it hard on him, he will be nasty. He will do whatever he can to hurt me.

Advice, please.

All.

I really have no one to talk to about any of this except you guys. I can't tell my family. I certainly can't talk to my H at this point.
I really need advice about this, i.e.:

1. Do I confront him when he comes home on Monday?
2. Do I try to follow him/have him followed to see if he goes to her?
3. Do I try to gather evidence for any legal proceedings?
4. Do I show my hand and tell him I heard the voicemail?
5. Do I simply contact the attorney, push forward w/divorce and avoice all contact from this point forward?

Advice, please.

I vote five if you are going to divorce...

my question is why not Plan B....

with you seeking legal counsel/seperation to protect yourself...

why the divorce bomb...

which does not mean I am suggesting reconcilliation at this time...but why not plan B which gives him wiggle room and time to make some decisions and gives you boundaries

ARK

I am trying now to figure out how I can do that. My DD still goes to school in area where our home is. She and I don't live in same district. DD goes to our home daily after school; bus drops her there. I go there daily to pick her up.

I'm trying to think of some way to have her either picked up at school or someone's home on her bus route that she can go to so I don't have to have any contact.

It would be hard on her and hard to do Plan B but still go there daily. I also need to read up on Plan B tonight. Look at posts regarding letters written, etc.

life2short..
lets be clear I am not telling you not to divorce...
and I am telling you must be safe...

so my question is which is a more safe route..
will divorce papers send him over the edge...
or will processing some of this crap help you and him...

you need legal counsel before you do A thing...

you need your ducks lined up....

ark

[quote]
or will processing some of this crap help you and him...

Not sure what you mean by this.


I don't think papers would send him over the edge so to speak. He'll just get incredibly nasty because he will take a huge financial loss when we divorce.

Do I need to try to discover more stuff about what's going on with OW? Do I let him know I know?

Does this kind of stuff help in a divorce or do judges not really care about that anymore?

I don't think you do....
check with a lawyer to see what's admissable and advisable

ark

I can't seem to get the quote thing right.

What did you mean by ..
or will processing some of this crap help you and him...

I will call attorney this afternoon if I can reach.

I was looking forward to this being a no contact, peaceful weekend. Now, I'm hurt, aggravated, unsure of what to do next.

L2S,

Why are you lving in chaos? What is it you want and do NOT let that be dependent upon your WH.

What I see over and over again(among so many things) is the failure to move out of a life of chaos and pain to one that is healthy and secure.Why? For some,it seems to be that they are fearful of being on their own,not having a man in their life,financial fears or fear of being alone,etc.

What has this man done for you or give you to make your life happy and safe? Is it positive? Healthy? What's holding you back from letting him go?

I do not advocate D unless I see no way out.I rarely even say that here but maybe 3 times I have to someone.In your case,I am not saying D,but you do need to pull back and regroup.What is it you would like your life to be like? What is healthy for your DD?

I see marriages a bit like a home.If it's not clean,doesn't make you happy and is unsafe,hurtful or falling apart,there are ways to handle all that.Status quo does not apply though.Clean house L2S.Step back and make some notes about what it is you want in this life,marriage and for yourself.If your H is part of the problem,then try and fix it but if he refuses then take action.Life is short and precious.Don't waste years not fulfilling your dreams and picking up after other's.Your WH has his own work to do but he sounds particularly averse to moving in a healthy and positive direction.Don't let him threaten you.Tell him to STOP.You will not have that anymore.YOU are in charge of your life and your DD.

I don't accept repeat adulterers.They either learn their lesson or that's it.Now,that may not be your belief but ask yourself if you are willing to go through like with this man as is.If he gets better,great.But who knows if and when that will happen.Make a promise to yourself and have a plan OK?

DONT LET ANYONE PREVENT YOU FROM LIVING YOUR LIFE TO ITS FULL POTENTIAL.

Be part of the group that ends the cycle of fear and violence.STRENGTH & PRAYERS to you and your DD~

O

Octobergirl,
What I want more than anything is:

1) To have my life back. I have been living with a family member for almost 2 years. I want a home for me and my DD.

2) I want peace in my life.

3) I want control (full if divorced or 50/50 if married) of what happens in my home and with my finances.

I am not afraid of being on my own because I've done it before. If I need something I can call a friend, a family member, fix it myself or look in the yellow pages.

I thank God, and I mean that with all sincerity, that I have a good job and am financially secure. I don't live extravagantly and can take care of myself and DD.

As for having a man in my life, yes. I do want to be married. I want someone in my life that I can share my life with. I want someone to hope, dream, plan with. Someone to share God with. Someone to grow old with. I want a companion. I want someone that will pamper and adore me and someone for whom I can do that in return.

I truly thought that I had found that person in my H and I believe that the shattering of those dreams and the let down of it all is what hurts the most.

------------------------
What has this man done for you or give you to make your life happy and safe? Is it positive? Healthy? What's holding you back from letting him go?

In looking at my situation as objectively and dispassionately as I can, my H has:
-cheated on me; one PA first yr of marriage, two EAs (one of those may be current PA)
-lied to me
-used me financially
-put everyone and everything above me
-cursed me
-thrown things at me;pushed me around
-threatened me w/exposing my distant past to all

-used my past against me; telling me that I have no right to make comments about what his kids have done/are doing because I had done far worse things at their age

-was not there for me when I needed him


My life is not happy, I don't feel safe and the relationship we have is far from healthy. Why can't I let him go? I don't know. I wish I knew why I continue to put myself in this situation. I don't know why I keep going back for more.

-----------------------
As for affairs, I don't believe that I could ever fully trust him again. The first affair was while we were still newlyweds. Since I left, he resumed a relationship w/his 2nd EX (I'm #3) and there's the latest OW that left a voicemail for him this morning telling him that she loved him. He has vehemently denied that anything is going on between them and insists that she is "just a friend".

He has said that because he saw me talking to guy at church, he resumed relationship w/EX. Now, because I am still going to same church, when I go he says I know where he will be (he means w/the one that today left the VM). He makes those comments but then comes back and says that he wouldn't really do that. Now, knowing about the cell phone and today's voicemail, I know that he has been lieing.

I do have to say that I have not been the model wife. I lied to my H about my past and came clean on one thing a couple of months before I moved out. I am extremely ashamed of things I did as a teenager (now 47) and would not want anyone to know. My H knows those things to include one thing that no one knows but me and the other person involved. He holds those things over my head and threatens to tell people if I don't do what he wants me to.

I didn't handle his kids well. I did not have any say so over what went on in our home. He allowed my SS to move back and forth 11 times in about 3 years. My SD was given things (pager, car, cell phone) when I didn't approve but he did it anyway; I had to help pay for but had no say so. I do not like them or the young adults they have become. I don't approve of what they do and they are both users in my opinion. This is a huge fight between us.

If I do anything for my DD he scrutinizes it because of how I scrutinized what he did w/his kids.

I have lied a lot to him about what he considers inconsequential things. If I talked to someone (family or friend) and he asked if I talked to them I would often say no. The reason is because there were some ugly arguments early on because of things that were said and that got back to him. He could/can talk to whomeverhe wants when he wants but I can't. So, if he asks if I talked to a friend or family member (female) I often say no to avoid arguments. I know this is wrong and I need to work on it.

Our marriage quickly evolved into a one-sided relationship. If he wanted something and I didn't agree, he pushed and bullied me until he got what he wanted. Because of my past and because of how I knew he felt about it, I would allow him to walk all over me in order to avoid confrontation. In an argument he would always/still does bring my past up.

I should have set boundaries of what I would and would not tolerate. Instead, I allowed him total control and I pouted and put up with until I could no longer tolerate what he was doing and I left.

In the almost two years that I've been gone, I have not one single time wanted to go home. I've gone home a couple of times but only because he gave me an ultimatum that he would divorce me if I didn't. I guess it was almost a "buying time" reaction on my part.

My H has not changed. He has not made me feel that he and I will be equal partners in our marriage. He has not made me feel that I will be the most important person in his life outside of God.

He tells me that if I will come home he will do everything within his power to make our marriage work. He tells me that he loves me and that he still loves me very much despite all that has happened but I must come home for him to change.

So, I am separated x 2 years, married to a man who has had multiple affairs including an ongoing one. Our finances are 100% mingled, he is living in our home and all my stuff is still there. He has the neighbor across the road keeping an eye on things so that if I went there he would be notified. I can't think of another option but for my DD to go there in the afternoons after school. If I make him mad he knows enough about my past to shame me in front of everyone I know.

I'm in a mess!!!!!!!

H is still out of town. Do I try to find OWs house while he's gone so I'm not going to accidentally run into him? Do I need any more proof than what I already have for legal reasons?

I have all the proof I need to know that an A is going on; at very least EA, most likely PA.

Does anyone have any advice on this issue?

I'm going to try to find another place for my DD to go after school until things are better. I know that if I go forward with D he will become nasty and would probably say things to DD to hurt me. I don't think he would hurt her just me through her.

He's going to be losing a lot if we D and the OW (who apparently is well off) probably might not find him quite so "Handsome" afterwards.

God, don't allow me to be vindictive and put myself on his level.

That's good too.I am the same way essentially.I don;t need millions of dollars to be happy.I am just glad I have a job that I like,money left over and all my bills are paid.Of course if it happened that I came into more money then I would do good things with it but right now,I am very secure financially,I have my home and the future looks bright.






I can appreciate that.I would like that too.But if it doesnt happen for me then I will accept that too.I am not going to acccept just anyone though.For me,it will have to be the right time and the right man,as much as I know.It should be for you too.No one knows a person 100%,you just can't.We have to make decisions in our lives with what we do know and if someone hurts us we have to try and deal with that as best we can.I understand your hurt.We all have experienced that betrayal.e can rise above it though,with faith and love and action.






Sometimes you just have to DO IT.LET GO.Don;t think about it.When I chose to file for a D,my mind was filled with all kinds of thoughts: "oh give him one more chance,he really is the love of your life,it will get better,don't do this to the kids,your beloved marriage is ending,what will people think,will I be ok,I don't want to be alone,I am hurting so much,why did he do this to me,how can he throw it all away,why am I going through this pain" and so on.It was so loud in my mind.I had to shut it all out and look at things from a less emotional perspective.Does this make sense?





That's cruel to hang that over your head.I can't imagine being with someone who threatens me.He would hit the door so fast.I know it's easier to say then if you actuallly live though it but I have dealt with people like that and they do hit the door.

Ok,it's clear you haven't been the model wife.He wasn't the model H.So where do you go from here? Well,if you both start at square one,and are committed to making your marriage better and family happy,then you both have to work at it,forgive eachother your tresspasses and move forward toward a better future.If however he isn't committed to that,continues to threaten you and act inappropriately and is not making your marriage and home life a loving,secure and safe place to be,then you have to make some decisions.




Get OUT of the mess.What are you holding onto? If you can't even get something down onpaper,then there is your answer L2S.All you have to do is take that first step.You can split everything if you need to.I did.No more joint anything (except home) but that will change once we finally D.You can't dwell on thepast now.It' stime to get the life you want and make it happen.Get out of the quagmire.



How does this ultimatum work? Is he truly acting in a loving way? I would say NOT.

Listen.I am not advocating D.BUT,I will say this: I want YOU to have enough strength to be able to handle ANY situation you are in so,whatever decisions you make,you can feel secure in them despite whatever he spouts forth.YOU are the only one you have to convinve here.Once you have that power within,it's all so clear.I want you to get to that place.I am sending vibes to you. Can you hear me? The choice is yours L2S.The power I feel and what I try to send other's is what I feel is God being right here with me.No matter what the challenge,no matter how much pain,I have my faith and God will see me through and I have made it: adultery,death,cancer,divorce.If you don't believe in God believe in YOU.

O

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Sometimes you just have to DO IT.LET GO.Don;t think about it.When I chose to file for a D,my mind was filled with all kinds of thoughts: "oh give him one more chance,he really is the love of your life,it will get better,don't do this to the kids,your beloved marriage is ending,what will people think,will I be ok,I don't want to be alone,I am hurting so much,why did he do this to me,how can he throw it all away,why am I going through this pain" and so on.It was so loud in my mind.I had to shut it all out and look at things from a less emotional perspective.Does this make sense?
====================
This is where I am right now. I'm doing all the what if's and why's. I'm driving myself crazy rehashing everything and wondering how to get to the point where I truly let go. I want a resolution soon. 2 yrs in limbo is enough for both of us. The fact that I know he has OW makes it really hard.

I want the house but he says he's keeping it. It was his before we married; I sold mine and moved into his. Not sure he can afford it but guess that's his problem.

=================
Get OUT of the mess.What are you holding onto? If you can't even get something down onpaper,then there is your answer
=================
By can't get on paper do you mean my earlier comment about not being able to write down many pros about marriage?

I do believe in God. I want so desperately to know that I am hearing from God in this situation. Unfortunately, I think I'm like the guy whose house was flooding and asked God to rescue him. God sent the cops, God sent the boat, God sent the helicopter yet he still kept asking.

Thanks for the uplifting words. I know in my head and my gut that divorce is the answer. I'm just having a hard time getting my heart to listen.

I really need to get my finances separated. I've been helping w/everything just as if I still lived there. I've enabled him to maintain his lifestyle while being w/someone else.

I'm just not sure how it would look in court that I did get separate checking account and stop helping w/bills. I think I would continue to help w/mortgage. Think that would strengthen my claim to half equity.

Any thoughts from anyone on the above? Would it be best to leave as is? Tried to get attorney on phone yesterday be he was out.

Thanks all for prayers and advice.

Found her house today. Not sure what I expected to see but saw nothing!!! Just guess I have a mental image of vehicle being there.

Checked VM a 100 times. No more messages from her and he hasn't checked them. I have no doubt that when he hears it he will erase it immediately since that's how he got caught last time.

I really don't know what to do about financial issues. I'm going to try attorney again on Monday. Don't know if starting separate checking acoount and just helping w/mortgage would be viewed as good or bad by judge. I do know that would heat up his anger. He might have to sell some things that make him appear to be a great catch to the OW. Wonder if she knows our finances. I bet not unless she wants to take care of him. Unfortunately she's probably like me. He's told her enough of his side of our story that she feels sorry for him and wants to make it all better.

They've been talking now for at least 2-3 months and she told him she loved him. But, he says she's this wonderful Christian woman who wouldn't get involved w/a married man and that she wouldn't date anyone divorced until final at least 8 months. Guess she relaxed her standards!!

Part of me wants to tell my H that I want to start going to cnurch w/him and make sure we go where she goes so she will see us together. Part of me wants to stoop to that level, move back home, and make him miserable. God help me, I do.

I was so looking forward to this weekend and now, after hearing her VM, my heart hurts.

That was similar to the d/d message which erupted the A volcano. That ride for me lasted 3 years. Wasn't pleasant or pretty. It was rough and ugly. Ended with seeing the OW in court while she filed bogus RO charges against the then Xws.

So here's what you do.

1. Get yourself financially secure - separate accounts.

2. Don't fear your past. If it helps you let others know, let them know. Don't let him threaten you about your exposure. Most won't give much care if that is in your past and you are better now. It is his present conduct that will hurt, so he really can't make you look as bad as him.

3. If you can keep that VM, record it.

4. Get secured housing for you and your children, take your stuff and move out. He has kids, that's his business.

5. Right now, consider moving to the D option. He is being abusive and you need to remove yourself from that environment.

6. Don't worry if the OW is a millionaire. If she is stupid enough to fall for his lines, she deserves a WS in her life. Dumb OW!!!!!

7. See if you can have a session or 2 with Steve H @ MB via phone counseling. ASAP

8. Read Love must be tough by Dr James Dobson.

9. Keep posting here.

10. Consider getting IC for your daughter.

11. Create your own personal support group. C/b a neighbor, workmate, relative, teacher at your d's school, your pet, anyone or thing...... you'd be surprised where your strength will come from.

12. Identify your personal boundaries and implement them. It s/b a short list.

You will survive.

L.

Yeah, I will survive. Just hate all the pain and emotional turmoil. Hate all the would ofs, could ofs, should ofs.

Unfortunately, I've left things wide open for him to have A. I haven't been there in home and he's been left to his own devices for two years. So, his A isn't my fault but I allowed him to room to do so because I haven't been there.

This is all just so hard. Love and marriage shouldn't be like this. I hate the pain of it all. I hate the starting over.

I am so miserable right now. I can go for days without thinking kind thoughts about him. I can go for days without calling him.

Then, I hear a song or something makes me think about a good time and I get really sad. I'm sure it's the same for everyone else, too.

I'm just really down right now. Knowing that he is having a second or third PA/EA after he promised that he would never hurt me like that again is so very hard to handle.

I can do so well for awhile and then all the emotion comes crashing back in and I think about the end and have such a hard time.

He's coming back on Monday and I know her intent is to see him. Part of me wants to go back into town late Monday evening and see what he does. It's kind of hard though around our house because the neighbor across the street is his big buddy and she will tell him if she sees me. The OW lives in a gated community and getting in is hard but not impossible. If he was there and I was able to get in would I just knock on the door and say "surprise" or "welcome home"?

Please pray for me. I truly need it now more than ever.

Thanks, all.

Life2Short,

I am butting into this conversation because your situation reminds me of what I went through (although we were not separated for 2 years).


I see several common "symptoms" of a person who has been subject to verbal/emotional abuse: not standing up for yourself (e.g., refusing to tolerate name calling, afraid of a difficult divorce), not being able to break away from your husband, focusing more on what he is doing instead of your & your life, and cycling from the good memories to the bad ones.

My suggestion is, as before, please educate yourself about verbal/emotional abuse and please get support to break the cycle.

Think about when you and your H were first dating...you would not have continued to date him if he did these things. So, how did you get to this point? Why do you feel so confused? IMHO, these are common symptoms of a victim of verbal/emotional abuse. IMO, you need to understand what the dynamics are of your relationship with your H so that you can better understand your feelings and what to do.

One more note, please understand that other people looking in on your situation cannot understand why you would stay in the situation or not take more positive actions for yourself. It can be very frustrating for outsiders to watch. I'm not saying that you are excused from taking positive actions, I'm just saying that outsiders may not understand and may assume things that are not true (such as, that you are afraid of being alone, etc). However, you can learn from what they see -- they are shocked & you would be too if you saw your life/situation from an outsider's point of view. Try thinking of your daughter or best friend in your situation -- what advice would you give her? Wouldn't you want her to be treated well by her H? Woudl you want her to have peace, happiness & self-confidence back? I'm not saying that you have to get a D; I'm just saying that you should get help regarding the emotional abuse so that you can understand what is going on and you can make better decisions about what to do.

Ok - I'm butting back out - sorry for the intrusion

U need to get yourself in a stronger stance...... right now you need to realize it isn't about the OW. She is just one stinky part of it. It is more about how abusive he is to you and your family. How that should not be enabled or tolerated by you and your family.

It is ok to say no to an abuser. You can't dwell on the good times...... maybe you haven't really had 'good times' with him.....just some better than others?!?!?!?

L.

Thanks for butting in......... I appreciate the insight. Sometimes it's hard to step back and look at your situation objectively or see it through other's eyes because you're knee deep in it.

You are all so very right. I've allowed this situation to go on and to become what it is because I keep going back for more. My actions keep postponing the ultimate decision; fix it or forget it. I get so close and then back down. I've been to an attorney and have draft papers to work on; I just keep postponing going back.

I plan to go this afternoon to get a couple of books that have been recommended. Just finished book by Joel Osteen. Greg Laurie (sp?) just came on TV. I like him a lot. Guess what his topic is today??? Fixing your marriage!!!

I hate it when things like that happen 'cause I want to internalize everything based on what is going on in my life. Is this a "sign"?

You're right in that I would not have tolerated what he is now doing to me.

Well. Time to get ready for church.
I'm so excited. I can go to church today and not have to fight w/him on the phone because I'm going. I can go without having to look over my shoulder, afraid that he might show up.

Orchid=
You are so right. I do need to stop what's going on and I do have the ability to do that by saying "no". I can hang up, not be in contact, tell him that he can't treat me in that way. He has often told me that if he starts cursing, hang up. I often do but I also often don't.

Thanks, guys.

Have a wonderful day today. I will. I feel so at peace right now.

Church was great.. The message....Setting priorities in your life and realizing that we have a finite amount of time on earth and we need to spend it on what really matters...

Having a good day so far. Wondering what tomorrow will hold w/H coming back into town. The OW expects to hear from H and I'm sure she will. Thinking about taking my D home and then going back to house just to bust up any plans she might have for being w/him.

I can't access cell phone records on line. He beat me to the punch. He knows that I will see her number so he registered first and now I can't access his phone or my own. Both bills come to our house. He reg'd mine because he has a second line on there and I imagine he calls her from that when out of range of other phone. Wish I had a friend at the cell company that would reprint the bill for me but I don't. I'll just have to make trips to the house daily before the next one comes to see if I can get it before he does. But his buddy across the street will tell him what I'm doing so that won't work.

The resumption of "platonic" (his word) relationship w/2nd EXW really hurt. But, hearing the OW tell my H that she loves him was really a punch in the stomach.

I've thought about plan B as Ark has suggested but I'm not really sure how to go about that. Anyone have a source for sample ones that others have done? Not sure if that's what I need to do or not.

I'm up one minute and down the next. Amazes me how much time I waste focusing on all this when there are more valuable things I could be doing. I'm just really hurt by all this and I don't know how to stop that.

I just read your post on sadmommy's thread. Is yours an affair marriage?

Yes. My H had an A in our first year of marriage. I stayed (I was in love) and we survived.

In January 2004, he moved my SS and his wife and baby in over my strongly expressed ojbections. Rocky relationship w/my SS and SD. Bad stuff. Anyway, I told him that I could not handle it but he didn't care because about 2 months earlier I had told him about some more of my past as a 15-16 y/o that he had always suspected and always accused me of but I lied about. So, moved them in and my D and I moved out.

We've been out since then. He has tried several times to get me to come home and I have briefly to keep option of being able to go home open; no other way to describe. I never wanted to go home;still don't.

He resumed relationship w/his 2nd EXW after he says he saw me talking to guy at church. That cooled off and has stopped to my knowledge. Thru our business he met a divorced woman who told him she was interested in dating him if we divorced. Now, apparently she has relaxed her standsrds because they talk constantly on cell phone.

Since I moved out I'm not there and he has 100% opportunity to see her every evening. I don't check up on him. From the cell phone bill, to calling late in evening and he doesn't answer home phone but answers cell, to him hiding the cell phone bill and creating online account that I don't have access to, to the VM she left him Thursday evening saying she loves him I believe that he is now having an affair, either EA or most probably PA.

He doesn't know I know his password and I'm tempted to delete her message but leave the others.

Ooops. I guess I didn't make myself clear. Was your husband married when the two of you hooked up?

You know, I had a feeling that I didn't quite understand your question!?!?!?!?

No. He had been divorced almost 3 years and I had been divorced about a year and a half.

I was tempted to delete the OWs voicemail. He beat me to it. Oh, well.

He called me about company related stuff but did tell me he loved me. Wonder if he called her, too?

Can anyone "pray me" a backbone?!?!?! I really, really, really want to resolve this thing one way or another. I'm really tired of fence sitting. I want a marriage or I want my freedom to put my life back in order.

I am concerned that we have both allowed so much to go on without resolution that we don't stand much of a chance of getting past all the junk.

I'm crushed that he would have another A after all he put me through the first time. I'm angry that he would give me such a hard time and be so incredibly nasty about me going to church when he's been carrying on with OW to the extent that she is telling him she loves him.

That's my double standards guy!!!

At work. Can't stay on very long. Last thing I need is to lose job.

OW just left VM for my WH. No doubt their having A. She loves him very much, misses him, can't wait to see him, blah blah blah. Makes me sick.

Anyway, she told him what her day is like and when she will be free to meet him. Do I go to where she said she was going to be and try to follow and catch them together or do I leave alone, realize that he hasn't changed, is scum of the earth, take the evidence I have and proceed with divorce?

I'm shaking so badly right now....
I'm so hurt and angry all rolled into one. How could he?

Save the voicemail if you can.

I would file for seperation, if that is available in your state, and get some legal protection.

I may have been mistaken about who he is seeing. He may have told me other person to throw me off track. He told me the one I thought it was didn't work.

In the VM OW mentioned having interview at XXX and meeting w/XXX at noon till about 1:30. The person the OW mentioned having a staff meeting w/is a licensed therapist!!!!! Does OW work w/therapist? My WH mentioned talking to a female counselor a while back and that she told him lots of stuff one of which was that if I was doing X and X and X the marriage was over!!

Is he seeing the female counselor??????

Should I try to find location and follow her to see if my WH and the OW meet?

Wow, I could have some blackmail stuff of my own!!!! Imagine the ethical trouble she would be in if this is true. Just me rambling but........

don't immerse yourself anymore in his chaos...it will diminish the fact that your boundaries that what is already occuring ...the way he treats you is NOT OK>....

he's already presented himself with enough proof to know you need to be safe....

ARK

I need some really fast advice. WH is involved w/someone on staff in a family therapist's office!!! She isn't a therapist but is a parenting coach.

What do I do? Not only is she involved w/married man but she is on the staff of a family therapist!!!!!

I have two VMs saved on recorder. Do I take to attorney? Do I confront him? Do I confront her/her boss?

If that is the case she can easily lose her license. And she should.

Not sure if she is licensed but I agree.

Just talked to attorney. My state has 50/50 division of assets regardless of whom earned most of the $.

He said that the A would have less of an impact b/c we have been separated x 2 years.

Why does it still hurt so much?????!!!!!!

I want to confront him. He is now coming home from trip. Went w/male family friend. Know this for fact. I want so badly to call his cell and confront him now but I also want to find her and follow her to meet him. Or, I want to call him, take off work and spend afternoon and evening together so he can't see her.

I'm so mad. The way he has treated me about going to church and he has been doing this...

Can you have somebody follow her and take pictures? That way he can't deny it later.

life2...
this is becoming a nice diversion from the issue that whether or not your husband is having an affair...he is not nice to you...either way...

your plan of using all this energy and time giving a flying flip about this just uses your energy and time and focus from getting your ducks lined up....

to get yourself out of his line of fire...
in fact you must NOT set out on any path that inflames him more...

and if you are begining to believe that his behaviors and actions are all explained cause he is having an affair...well it's bunk...cause he already has had affair...

ark

No. You are right. He acted this way before the 2nd A. He can't get me to do what he wants me to do so he has told me numerous times that he is going to do stuff just to hurt me. That is his intent. He will have an affair and make sure I know about it just so that I'm hurt by it because he thinks I had one and because I won't come home and take care of him. He told me awhile back in a VM that he was going to do some things that I was going to find out about and he hoped that it hurt me so much I couldn't "f'ing move".

You're right about not making the situation more volatile.

I'm just so angry. Mainly angry at myself for being such a fickle stupid person. I started to say female but MB is full of female posters that do not allow this kind of garbage in their lives.

I don't have anyone that I can ask to do that. My family and friends do not know. I'm so ashamed that I have wasted so much of my life on this jerk.

There's a part of me that wants to ask WH if he would like to try counseling one more time just to see if it would help. Then, if that doesn't work, we'll move forward w/D.

Of course my suggestion would innocently be to go to the place where the OW works. I would offhandedly comment that isn't it funny that someone works there w/same name!!! It's such a common name it could be quite coincidental; kind of like Susan Smith (but that's not it).

I want desparately to back off, give it to God and let it all go, whatever happens.

What do you think about the counseling?

Do you think OWs boss needs to know what's going on?

Do I tell my H that I know what's going on? Do I let him know that I know about the VMs? About where OW works?

Or, do I just keep quiet and:

see attorney?
do nothing?
keep gathering info?

What do I do now?

All. I have absolutely no one that I can talk to about any of this. My family has no clue that any of this stuff has gone on/is going on. I have no one that I can bounce any of this off. I really need advice from those of you who have been where I am.
I really, really need help.

There's a part of me that wants to ask WH if he would like to try counseling one more time just to see if it would help. Then, if that doesn't work, we'll move forward w/D.

Oh good grief...

here's a story that happened to me on Saturday that made me hang my head when I heard...and made me sad in to sunday...
and still just makes me shake my head..

a friend of mine found out last year her husband was cheating....

she too had a history of abuse...physical and verbal...

she lost it in the summer..left work....I would call she would rarely answer...

went in patient psyche...meds... group etc...

caught up with her in July on the phone...she spoke with such eloquence of the reality of a case of severe major depression..

where she would get up and cry straight for 12 hours and not even know why she cried...

that a great day was a day that she went downstairs and put in a load of laundry for usually the thought ...just the mere thought of doing laundry overwhelmed her in to doing nothing,,,,

my friend...vibrant....strong....funny and most important my kind friend.....more sad than she could handle..

and over and over I would ask...are you OK ...are you safe...

and she would tell me yes....
trying to work things out with her husband....

she is back to work

out of the house..
the fallout from kids is bad..though they have seen what HE can do....they are with him....and she is now the bad guy....good news is that they are both young men...over eighteen...so they have some choices to make...she can not force them...

and she told me on saturday...and showed me some pictures of the some bruises.....and told me of four times since she found out about the affair that he got physically violent enough to bruise...enough to leave marks....choked her...
etc...

my dear friend..was not safe....and is only safe now out of that house.....

had I known I would have gotten her and taken her from there...

but it is only now removed from the situation that her vision is clearing...
and she can even speak the truth..
for I asked every time I saw her.....

are you safe
do you feel safe
do you have a plan
yes she would say..
yes


she said to me on saturday that it is so funny that she never thought the person laying on the floor was her...that it had to be someone else...and that maybe she pushed him
maybe she cuased him

maybe her need for attention was so great she stayed

and then she told me...

I kept saying ,,,,,,but I love him...



and that this man would attack her during that summer of he$$ when never have I spoken to someone more vulnerable than she...existing outside of a hospital setting...

makes me want to weep for her...

your husband does not need marriage counseling with YOU...
he needs serious counseling...for himself for a long time before he even gets a shot at you...

this must be your boundary...
you are like my friend...you can not see any other way because this has become all you know...

but it is not normal...
not even close..
and the stakes are way way too high to play games with...

ARK

I do not believe that he would agree to counseling for himself first.

Unless of course that's what he thinks he's doing with OW.

No, I can't see another way. Even reading my own posts makes me sick to think that I'm so "needy" that I would seriously consider putting up w/this crap or at least considering not immediately confronting him and filing for divorce.

do not confront him..

go totally legal..
make NO move without legal counsel...

ARK

Don't confront him until you have all your ducks in a row. Go talk to a lawyer, gather evidence, look at the financial situation,...

Talked to attorney yesterday. He said that the fact that we have been separated x 2 years would significantly diminish any impact an A would have on the outcome.

He said everything should be divided 50/50 and go from there. I can fight for house if I want to and base it on what is best for my child.

I'm really sick to death of myself. Yesterday I wanted it over. Today I waffle. Tomorrow I don't know. God help me. I am so confused.

And, I guess what really confuses me is that so many people here are dealing w/and moving past As together. They've made a committment to make it work and it seems that so many are making a go of it.

I know that w/God all things are possible and I believe that. I know I've created a lot of the damage in my marriage by "running my mouth" to family members who have big mouths. It's not all my fault by any stretch but, I've certainly contributed to the breakdown.

Any advice?

Would anyone recommend counseling in this case, i.e. IC or MC?

Or, has it gone too far for too long and I am wasting my time? Do I simply need to admit defeat and move on?

I have really been down the last couple of days.

I am really aggravated w/myself over it.

One day I'm sure I want a D. The next, I'm not sure. My emotions are really going crazy right now. I have evidence of EA and more likely PA. This is the 3rd such relationship.

I've made mistakes and have contributed to our current situation. I keep trying to tell myself that we have too many obstacles to get around to even attempt to stay married and yet I am heartsick over all this.

I know all of you are probably as sick of seeing these posts as I am of posting them.

Attorney:
I've talked to an attorney. The As don't really change anything unless I want to fight it out in the courts and I don't. So, I've gone that route. We will split 50/50.

Counseling:
Would it help? Do I get IC or look for MC for both?

Divorce:
Do I move forward and, if it's God's will that we stay together, he won't allow it to happen?

Words of wisdom, please.

Life is too short.

I know. It's just so hard to take the gut-wrenching emotion out of it all.

If I could do that I would probably have been divorced years ago.

Can anyone tell me how to put the feelings aside? Stupid question I know.

Ok, L2S-

I am divorced, with NO REGRETS!! He drank, did drugs and cheated. If he ever would of been physically abusive, I would of left sooner.

I went thru ALL of the "on the fence" stuff, waffling every minute of every day. BEGGING God to fix this so I could be happy again. I tried EVERYTHING to change him, until one day, the light in my head came on, and I realized the ONLY person I could change was, infact, ME! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I know you said that God has no plans for divorce, but actually, it is written somewhere in the Bible, that there ARE biblical grounds, which is ADULTERY. You actually have sprititual grounds to divorce, if that is really what's holding you back.

It sounds like even if you did let him know, that you are aware of his A, it would not matter, because as you said, he WANTS you to know, with the very clear intention of hurting you! I thought I read in your first post of this thread, that he threatend to kill you in your sleep???

This is just me, but even if I WON free, lifetime counseling, from a well known therapist, on some popular talk show, I would STILL not trust this man! Not with my life in his hands!

All emotions set aside, I think you know what you need to do. Set an example for your daughter.

Take care, and I've already prayed about this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer68

PS...Sorry if I came off as harsh, just my take on this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Don't apologize. You didn't come off harsh at all.

You've been where I am now. That's what I need. Sound reasoning. I still love him and am having a hard time letting go even after he's done all he's done.

I understand, L2S. Letting go is the hardest part, but in the long run, when time goes by, eventually, you will look back and say "How did I go on so long like that?" Time heals. It truly does. I didn't think I'd EVER be able to get over it and move on, but here it is now, nearly 11 yrs. later, and I hardly even think about it anymore.

Life is made of many chapters, and this is only one. You never know what God has planned for you, until you finally open the door ALL the way! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Just accept now, that "Yes" this hurts, and taking steps forward, will be painful, but just temporarily. I convinced myself by comparing the pain of leaving or staying. The pain of staying, would have been forever. The pain of leaving was temporary. You have to think long-term, here, of the more permanent picture. I couldn't have gone on, knowing I was just "settling", in the M, for this ONE person, who seemed to have the most effect or impact on me and my life, and NOT a positive one! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, just think hard about this, and God will bring you the answers. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

I've been thinking so hard my head hurts!!!

I want so much to do the right thing for myself, my DD and my H. I want a great marriage or I want the freedom to move on and he deserves the same thing.

I've painted him to be a real jerk here and in many ways he is!! Regardless of what I've done and/or what he thinks I've done, I have not deserved the way he treated me. I was very good to him. I took care of everything. I've put up w/a lot and taken alot.

I just don't know how to actually break away. Most of me wants to.

We had a discipleship class at my church a few years ago (when he was still going) and one of the things the teacher said was that many people never realize their miracle because they stop just short of it.

We've had some good periods of time in our marriage. Of course, they were interspersed w/a lot of garbage and horrible episodes but, nonetheless I can look back on some good times.

So, am I throwing the towel in too quickly? Before I moved out I did my best to engage my H and try to get him to go to counseling and marriage retreats, etc. He always refused.

After I moved out he was more willing but there had been so much hurt and pain that I didn't want counseling. Now, do we give it one last ditch effort and, if it doesn't work, move forward with divorce? I get conflicting advice from family. Part say dump him. Part say you both have stuff to work on and can make it work if you both try.

So, I'm still quite confused. There are periods of time when he is asking like a real jerk that I relish the time away from him. There are times like now when I am hurting because of what I believe is going on (another A) that I want him to say it's not so and that it's not happening. This is the man that I thought God dropped into my lap and I can't imagine him betraying me like that.

Jeez, I sound so needy!!! How sick!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Well, I don't know about you, but during the time I was going thru this, I was SOOO wishwasy. When I was with him, I'd DREAM about being alone! When alone, I would miss him, forgetting why I wanted to be alone. But as soon as I would see him and be around him for about TWO minutes, it would all come back to me, why I wanted to be GONE!

It got to the point where it became my fault, for being around to mistreat to begin with. His first couple of mistakes, were his, then it became MINE when I chose to be around it. How do they say, "First time, shame on you, second time, shame on me!" In my case, it was shame on me 2nd, 3rd, 4th ect....! I kept hoping, and denying, until I could hope and deny no more and HAD to face the truth! Somewhere, you have to get to the point where you can accept it for what it is, as painful as it may be. This will come when you have TRULY had enough!

Anyway, you're NOT needy, just HUMAN!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Boy, sounds like my situation. There are times when I get a glimpse of the man I fell in love with and I get hopeful. Then I make him mad and he acts like a jerk and think what a fool I am.

You're right. I have to come to the point where I no longer choose to live this way. Every time I think I've gotten there something happens to make me back down.

I always wonder if that's my stupidity or God saying "not yet".

And if yours is anything like mine was, it did not take much to set him off, just saying, thinking or looking the wrong way! Always on eggshells around him! Boy, I don't miss those days! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I think what might be holding you back, is not stupidity, or God telling you not to, but just plain fear. Fear of the "unknown". You are very familiar with things the way they are right now, and this would be very much like stepping into another, whole world, without knowing if that's where you would want to be, and the fear that if you make that decision, that you wouldn't be able to turn back or change your mind. The finality of it all.

I could be WAAAY off on that, but it's a pretty common feeling of many who are contemplating divorce. The "what ifs". And the feelings of panic one gets when they feel they are about to "lose" someone for good. Just ask yourself, what is it your actually losing? Love? Respect? Partnership? Honesty? ect...Some of these may already be lost. But there is also some gains that go along with divorce. Infact, I started a thread on the divorce board of the emotional gains of divorce, and many came up with quite a bit. SANITY is a big one for me, along with relief and freedom!

And this may sound crazy, but now, my X and I are friends. Only because he now respects me, and takes me seriously. (I STILL would never go back) But, this was one gain, I never expected when we divorced. Weird... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I'm starting to ramble here, I just really feel like I could relate to you and your situation. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Prayers to you... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

(( life2short ))

What would you do if you were not afraid ???

I remember reading this advise to someone on this board and when I read it - I cried. It really hits home. Just passing it on to you. Hope it helps a little bit.

You are not alone.

Best regards - carnation

Jennifer 68,
There are a lot of areas where I walk on eggshells. Stuff that we can't really talk about without an immediate argument, like kids.

A lot of it is fear and the finality thing. I'm really confused by all my emotions. When I think about it logically I know you're right. What would I be losing? But then the emotions all come crashing back in and I get really down about the whole thing.

If divorces could be obtained in about 3 days I would have had one years ago!!! But, the process takes just long enough and there are so many steps to go through that by the time I get the resolve to push forward before I can get all the way through I get cold feet. I do the "what ifs" and I get emotional about it again.

For me a big part of this is emotional. There's a Christian song (can't think of artist) with this line in it:

"When the sacred is torn from life and we survive". That really sums it all up for me. The pain I feel knowing that the man that I gave my life to would consider me so little that he would have an A.

Carnation:
If I wasn't afraid and I could separate my emotions from the mix, I would probably be divorced. But, my problem is that I can't!!!! Not at this point anyway.

Ok. Someone out there please answer this one.

I've asked my H if he wants to go to counseling and see if we can make our M work. I've asked him if he wants to go to another church together for awhile to see if we have a chance. I'm not saying pack up and me go back home, just see if we have any chance left.

Is this stupid on my part?

I've been very mixed up through this whole ordeal; heck, for the last few years!!!! Am I trying this last ditch effort because I think somebody else wants him and it scares me that he might not be there at some point?

Saw this quote on one of the emails sent to me:

"The minute you settle for less than you deserve, you get even less than you settle for."

Is THIS the question you really want to ask?

How about reframing your question to read :

[color:"blue"]Is this smart on my part? [/color]

Correct.

Is this smart on my part?

Now, was that a retorical question on your part as in:

How stupid can you be or...

There are none so blind as those who will not see?!?!?!?!?!

I get really confused by some of what I see here. There are so many of us who take and take and take and keep going on in the marriage.

I know the answer is probably different for everyone who posts here but, how do you know that you know that the time is ripe to move on and just let go and end it?

I know all of these are questions that only I can answer because I'm the only one that has to live with the decisions I make but, I like some others, really have no one but you guys to bounce these things off. No one in my family really knows what's going on.

L2S,

You know, when you've finally had enough. When you finally say to yourself, "NO MORE, I'm worth MORE than THIS!" You find ways of detatching, with a little distance, then a little more distance, until you wouldn't have it any other way, then to be completely FREE, dependent on yourself and happy and content with the new adjustment in your life. It's a very "carefee" feeling! It comes in stages, but very worth the steps. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Are you afraid to tell your family what's going on? Or are you afraid that they will judge your H. I know I was too humiliated for people to know anything, and I wanted to protect him from the judgements of others. I'm not sure why, but I didn't want others to view him as the jerk he was, like it was some kind of reflection of ME or something. Another thing I hated, was the pity I was getting, and all the unwanted advice. I did not have access to a site like this, during that time.

I was lucky with the divorce, in the state that I lived in at the time. It was final the day I went to court. Walked out of the courthouse with the decree in my hand. I had the paperwork prepared for a while, and sitting on the edge of my lawyers desk, with the warning, that when this happens, it will be a "spur of the moment" kind of thing, so BE READY! (Unfortunately, that is how I've always been! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />) And when that day FINALLY came,(the day I got the "bird" on Mother's Day!) it took only one phone call, and the ball was rolling, and DONE WITH! NO time to think or change my mind! I've never regretted this!

Anyway, here I go again, rambling away!! My life would make the PERFECT country song! Someone call GARTH! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You'll know, when you've had enough.

Prayers to you...

Jennifer

I still can't figure out quotes or the smiley faces!!!!
---------
You find ways of detatching, with a little distance, then a little more distance, until

I've done this to an extent but something always pulls me back. I can go for a few weeks and then wham!!! I'm right back where I was before. And, sadly, I can handle it more when he's being a jerk than when he is distant or kind. How screwed up is that?
----------
Are you afraid to tell your family what's going on? Or are you afraid that they will judge your H. I know I was too humiliated for people to know anything, and I wanted to protect him from the judgements of others. I'm not sure why, but I didn't want others to view him as the jerk he was, like it was some kind of reflection of ME or something.

Yeah. I don't want my family to know that my H could betray me w/another W and I am still contemplating staying w/him. Also, if we do end up staying together (and that's a slim chance) I know that knowledge would make them hate him and I think it would make me look even more stupid in their eyes. Also, I'm really close w/my family and that kind of tension really makes for bad relationships.
-------------------
In my state an uncontested D takes 31 days from the day it is filed. No court appearance necessary if the judge signs it. After judges signs and the 31 days are up, it's final.

If I could get the D in about 3 days I would have been divorced at least 100 times by now. It's just the finality of it all that really depresses me and the fact that I could get depressed over ending something that has for the most part been so-so at best is depressing!!!!

Thanks for your thoughts, your continued postings and, most of all, your prayers. I really need them.

We had a discipleship class at my church a few years ago (when he was still going) and one of the things the teacher said was that many people never realize their miracle because they stop just short of it.

and when life2 raised her hand and told the teacher and the class..

how her husband sitting next to her...calls her horrendous names...

holds threats over her head over what she did when she was FIFTEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!

and
has hurt her now and then...

the teacher said....
well life2...just stay there and wait for the miracle....if you and your self esteem can survive the wait...

perhaps the you are stopping short of the miracle by waffling by his side...

he needs to fix things himself..
he needs to work on things himself..

and then perhaps a miracle..

ARK
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

perhaps the you are stopping short of the miracle by waffling by his side...

...and therein lies the rub. Not quite sure what that phrase really means but, to me it means ...

... and therein lies the problem. I am having a VERY hard time separating the emotion from the reality. When I take a long hard objective look at what I have it is very easy to see what I need to do. But, I can't separate the emotion long enough to take the steps that need to be taken.

A lot of the folks on this site that are of a religious bent have Bible verses and sayings in their signature lines, such as:
Let go and let God.
With God all things are possible.
and on and on and on

This is where I really grapple with what to do. I've made a lot of mistakes in this marriage also. I don't take ownership of the reason why he acts as he does. That's his 100% but, I have not done a lot of the things that are recommended here such as Plan A. I got to this site late in the game (we've been separated almost 2 years). I am afraid that he may be having another EA/PA that developed in the last few months. So, my heart hurts because I fear he may have moved on and I haven't. I have hope still hanging like a thread and I don't know if it's too late. I don't know how I feel anymore.

I'm not sure how to hamdle all this. Before he left on weekend trip last weekend (and OW definitely did not go; know this for sure) he was still asking me why I wouldn't go w/him, still contacting me, still getting mad if I did something he didn't like.
Now, he is distant. Telling me to do whatever I want to do 'cause it doesn't matter to him. Says he has decided he needs to make some changes in his life. Guess I'm one of them.

I am really not sure what to make of this. Has he "fallen in love" w/OW therefore he has no concern for me? He has done this before so I don't know if it's a phase or what.

I'm really confused. I'm confused by his actions. I'm confused by my reaction to his actions.

Phew!!! This stuff is really draining on the emotions.

IMPORTANT POINT:

No one here cares one whit about OW or her involvement in your H's life ... the primary issue is that you are in an abusive M irregardless of an affair.

If OW fell off the planet, your H <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> would still be abusive.

His abuse centers around the belief that I have had an A w/OM. That is not true but I have done enough things that makes him think so.

Was the way he acted right? Absolutely not.

I am not a violent person and I am not going to curse someone out and throw things at them. I don't understand that mentality. But, there are times that I wish I could I was so mad at him.

I know it sounds like I'm making excuses and I guess I am. I guess I'm trying to rationalize what he did.

But, I just don't really understand the sudden change and I don't know what to do about it.

Safety is # one

If you are not safe ... take care of that priority first.

I normally feel safe around him even when he's acting like a jerk. Yes, he's done some pretty crappy stuff but I don't fear for my life.

He's just a bully for the most part. Yeah, he's gotten a bit physical but mainly he's just a foul-mouthed jerk when he gets mad.

I'm still saying that I don't deserve it but, I have made him pretty mad. Doesn't justify it.

He's just a bully for the most part.

He's a bully for the most part.

He's a bully.

I posted that way so you can see what you do with facts you dislike.

You insert words to minimize a behavior.

Yeah, I see what you mean.

My biggest problem is I don't know how to make a decision and then stick with it.

I think about the fact that he had an A first yr of marriage and I think "why would I put up w/that"? What made me take that and keep going as opposed to some people who would have run to an attorney's office to file?

When he moved my SS in and out a dozen times and allowed his kids to "rule the roost" why did I stay in that? There are probably lots of folks here that would say "Not only no, but h*ll no".

When he moved the SS, wife and baby in, I finally said "no" and I left. But now I have no backbone and I'm doing the waffling thing again. He is now having another A and I'm waffling again.

How are some people able to take and take and continue to stay and some people finally say "no more".

I know that I justify his behavior and you make that easy to see by the way you put emphasis on different parts of the sentence.

I'm just really confused. Some people seem to overlook some pretty crappy stuff that has been done to them. I know that's what I'm doing and I don't have a good way of dealing with this, sorting through the emotion and making a decision.

I know I'm probably driving everyone here crazy and I thank you so much for the continued response. I really need the feedback. I have no one else to share this with (and I can't think of a group of folks better to share w/than those who have been through the fire).

L2S,

I am not as articulate as the others helping you on this site. You should listen to them.

Here are some things I learned from being in an abusive (mostly verbal/emotional) M/relationship:

It doesn't matter what you did/didn't do in the past or to your H, or what you do/don't in the future -- the abuser will continue to abuse you and will continue to find reasons/excuses for the abuse until things change.

Things won't change until you exit the abuse cycle. Your H may or may not change - you cannot control that - but you can control whether or not you subject yourself to more abuse. Setting boundaries and saying - "No more" to name calling, disrespect, etc is the first step in helping yourself, your H and your M.

While you are in the abuse cycle, you will feel: worn out, confused, indecisive (waffling) and low. You've asked why have you put up with these things & why are you indecisive now? I think the answer is that your self-esteem has taken repeated blows over the years to the point that you are put down, kept down, confused, unsure of yourself and struggling to exit the abuse cycle.

I really, really, really wish I could do a better job of articulating this to you. I think I know exactly how you are feeling -- you understand what people are saying to you, you know that the situation is not good, and yet you have trouble taking action that might put a permanent end to the relationship. I understand how hard it is to break out of the cycle, but breaking out is not about giving up on your M and going right to D - you can decide that later. Exiting the cycle is about ending the abuse, so that you can start to think clearly and heal, and that you can give yourself, your H & your M the best chance possible to be healthy. Your H may come to his senses and get help, he may not. Either way, you cannot continue to tolerate disrespect & abuse. Please read the book I recommended. Wish I could help more.

N

Hi, L2S, hope you're doing well, today...I know it's kind of a "one day at a time" thing. Hang in there!!

bump...

Neverthesame, Jennifer 68,
Thanks.

Yeah, it really is a one day at a time kind of thing. I'm glad I've got folks who understand that i can talk to.

I think the hardest part is the roller coaster ride. He's not consistently any one way. His moods change from day to day. It's kind of like the old joke that some parts of the country have about their weather. "If you don't like the weather stick around. It will change momentarily".

He goes from being a nasty, vulgar-mouthed jerk to allowing me to catch a glimpse of the man I fell in love w/and married to a total stranger who acts so nonchalant about everything that I think I have a better relationship with the man that lives three streets over and I don't even know him.

I don't know what he's thinking. I don't know if he has decided that there is no hope. I don't know if he has moved on in his mind. I just don't know.

The biggest thing is I don't know why I care. I keep second-guessing everything. I keep doing the 'what-ifs': you know, what if I've waited too long and lost him, what if we remain together and nothing changes, what if we divorce and I realize too late that I love him and I made a mistake, what if we don't divorce and I realize I've made a mistake, and on and on and on ad nauseum.

I really, really don't like where I am right now but I don't know how to get past it.

You know, this stuff is really so hard and draining on you.

I wish I could be as strong, as focused, as self-willed as so many of you sound. I sound so wishy washy to myself.

Two-three weeks ago I was angry and didn't care if he called or not. Now, something in my poor brain/heart has switched and I'm waiting for the phone to ring.

I don't know what's going on or why. I'm really not sure which way to go.

Hi, L2S. Some of us may "sound" focused and self-willed, but it's easy to sound that way, when using a keyboard to talk. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Truth is, we have ALL been in the state you're in, at one time or another. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

You will have ups, downs, back and forths, NORTH, SOUTH, EAST and WEST! Honey, it's all part of the process! You're normal! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes, I wish there was a switch to our emotions, or at least a control guage! Could you even imagine how much different our lives would be without emotions? Our decision making would be completely based on what we THINK instead of what we FEEL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> (I'm not sure that's good or bad! Probably a little of both.) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />


I think a little exercise would be interesting, such as writing down all of the decisions we have to make, and then draw a line down the middle of the paper, and label each side, one side is "Heart" and the other side is "Head", and see what the drastic differences would be between the two answers, based on the same decision. It would tell us how in sync our hearts and minds are! And maybe then, we could figure out how to bring the two together (heart & mind) and balance it out a little. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I'm off on ANOTHER rambiling session, here! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Don't know how this keeps happening! Hang in there, and I'll continue to pray about this! Take Care...

Jennifer

Good afternoon all my "cry-on-your shoulder" friends!!! Thank you for being there for me.

Well, WH couldn't spend time w/me yesterday evening 'cause he had promised SS to go see him in another town. Said he went but SS wasn't where he was supposed to be so he ended up driving around until around 11pm.

Can we all in unison say "liar, liar, pants on fire?!?!?!"

I went to the OWs house. 3 guesses as to who was parked in the driveway. I parked back up the street out of site. I walked down to the house twice to make sure it was our vehicle. Yeah, it was.

I called cell phone probably 20 times, left a text message and a voicemail message. Guess he finally got the hint that he better leave. He never even saw me. I didnt' have a camera w/me. I was tempted to confront by ringing the doorbell but didn't. I think I would have died a little more inside if he had taken up for her in front of me.

He called me as he was pulling out of the driveway and told me where he was, NOT!!!! Made up a lie about how heavy the traffic was on the road he was on.

I met him at our house and stayed the night. Had a couple hours conversation about his suspicions of me and who he thinks is an OM in my life. He sat there and lied over and over again about the OW and their relationship. So, here's the questions:

1) What do I do?
We're supposed to go to dinner this evening. Not sure if he is going to see her before. Would like to go by there and see but that's pretty risky. Will take camera if I do.

2) Do I confront him w/the evidence I do have? He knows that I know about the Nov cell phone bill. He has hidden Dec and reg account on line so I can't access. I have two saved voicemails that he doesn't know I have.

3) Do I take the cell phone bill and voicemails to her boss (she works in counseling center) and ask him his advice? He is a Christian marriage counselor!! If I did anything that made it hard on OW I believe WH would do everything in his power to hurt me by telling about my past, taking things from the house that are mine, etc.

4) Do I take same to church she attends and play for senior pastor?

5) Do I just say "enough is enough" and let go? Let him get on w/his life and try to put mine back together?

6) Do I try to push the marriage counseling issue? If yes, my thought was to sched appt w/counselor OW works for and say what a coincidence; must be God 'cause there's someone there w/OWs name. Would this blow up in my face? Would I somehow be tipping my hand? He is a very analytical and suspicious person.

I'm really confused at this point as to what I need to do.

Month after month he has cursed, threatened, etc. Asked me to do things w/him but I would refuse because of the questioning, arguments, nastiness, etc. Now all of a sudden he has things planned every evening and has no time. I'm sure that's because of OW. He has stuff planned that I cannot easily check on so that makes it really convenient for him to be w/her and me not know it. If he says he's going to SS or SDs, I'm not going to call them and ask if he's there and he knows it.

Has male friend in another town about 30 minutes away that he goes to but this is someone he met after we separated. I don't know him/his wife and I've never been invited so it's easy for him to say he's there but not really be. He can answer the cell from anywhere.

Advice, please.

L2S,

Not trying to BEAT this point into your head, just tapping lightly <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />...I think I gave you a little suggestion in my post right before you posted...

I know you're hurting, and I think the contact you're having with him now, is only adding to your pain. You're struggling with what to do to wake him up and make him see what he's doing. Honey, it's not happening. And it won't with the way things are, right now. And the fact is, even if you were successful in bringing the 2 of you back together, you have some other serious issues to be more worried about, not just the OW.

I think you have to somehow toughen up a little, and put a serious NC in order, at least for now. Think of it as something you HAVE to do, not WANT to do. Gain some of your self respect back. Once you start respecting YOURSELF, and not allow this type of behavior any where near your vicinity, then the respect of others will follow.

This is just my take, L2S. I truly am not intending to sound like a heartless person, just giving you the outside view point from where I'm standing.

Love yourself FIRST! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

I think my head's so thick, it takes more than tapping to get through!!!

I'm not looking for someone to pat me on the hand and say "There, there." I'm looking for a way to fix the mess I find myself in.

When you say "serious NC in order, at least for now" do you mean asking him not to contact her or are you saying that I should not be in contact w/him?

I'm so wrapped up in all this I don't know which way to go!!

Sweetie, I'm talking about your NC with him. We cannot control who he chooses to have contact with. You are reacting to his actions, instead of taking your own action. I'm sure you would be surprised to HIS reaction to YOUR actions, if you took a FIRM stance with your beliefs. Just by standing up and saying, "This is what I believe in, and will stand by to the end, with or without YOU!, TAKE IT, or LEAVE IT!" Then back it up, with your actions. This will show you mean what you say, and NOT to be toyed with!

So, exactly how do I implement what you are suggesting?

Don't call?
Don't go by home?
No contact w/him of any kind?
Don't worry about who he's w/or what he's doing?

DD goes to house every day after school. So, pick her up but don't go in?

What do I do to preface all this? Tell him that I love him and would like a chance to rebuild our marriage and then leave it at that? A step toward that would be that I would have to leave my church or he would have to come to church w/me.

I'm rambling here too. I just don't exactly know how to go about this. Is this considered plan B where I just disappear and see what happens? I haven't even told him that I know something is going on.

Boy am I obviously confused.

Just by cutting off contact. Just politely let him know, "I'm sorry, I think I need a little space right now, to clear my head, I'm sure you understand." Then take the space to do so. I know you would have to rearrange alot of things, in order to do this, but L2S, it would be worth it. And it's not a lie, you DO need space, because you cannot clear your head and think, with the way this has been going.

At first, your intentions of doing this would be to just see what happens, with the hope that it will save your M. But you never know, you might just clear your head enough to realize, you actually LIKE your space and the peace. It is possible to become accustomed to it, by accident!

It happened to me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Well, I've had that, sort of. There has never been a period of any significance of no contact, just 2-3 days here and there. And, those times were peaceful but, apparently, those were the times that he chose to start seeing OW. Wife out of sight, out of mind, I guess. He kept telling me he was lonely but kept being a jerk at the same time and I had no desire to go home. So, here we are now.

I have spent as much time as I could w/him this week; I miss him. Or, it could be that I have been awakened by the fact that he is no longer asking me to come back and it may be b/c of OW. So, now I find myself in a situation where I am trying to minimize the amount of time he has to spend w/OW and it's driving me crazy. It's obviously making him mad. I know why I'm doing what I'm doing but he doesn't know that I know.

Geez, some of this stuff sounds like a soap opera plot.

So, I'm confused now by what to do. I don't like the man he has become. He doesn't like the woman I've become. I know he's having an A, either EA or PA, not sure.

Do I write him a letter (easier than trying to talk and make all my points) and tell him that I love him and would like the opportunity to work on our marriage via MC and see if we can save it?

Do I tell him that I have reason to believe that the relationship with OW is not platonic and that he needs to stop seeing her if we have a chance?

Do I tell him that I will be going to another church until a decision is made about what we are going to do?

Advice, please.

No, L2S, you need to tell him, NC right now. I know that it is painful, but it has to be done. And NOT just those times when he's just in between visits with you and OW. He needs to know you're not available, even when he's NOT taking time for OW. THOSE will be the times he will be forced to notice the changes, when he has nothing to do, or OW isn't available at the moment. So when SHE'S not available, neither should YOU be!

You are trying too hard to control what he's doing. You have to let that part go. Don't try to control HIS actions, or demand anything. That will just cause more anger and resentment. Act like you don't give a rip what he's doing! THAT will effect him more than anything else you've ever tried! Once you appear to NOT care, is when things start happening. (Whether you want it to, or not) Believe me on this one.

If any counseling takes place, it should just be for you, alone, to deal with the co-dependency issues in front of you. You don't want to drag that around with you, whether you stay together, or not.

Bottom line...Let go of control...it will not work. Guarenteed! Take a time out...

Again, just my thoughts on this. This is the advice I have to offer, even though it might not be what you're looking for. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

I have done this to some extent and I truly believe that that is when he started the A. Basically, I was w/my DD at family member's home and he was left alone. He got lonely. I wasn't there so he turned to someone else.

He kept telling me that he couldn't handle the lonliness and I did nothing about it. Granted, he was being extremely nasty about the church thing but I wouldn't budge. So, he found OW to occupy his time.

Now, I am trying to figure out if the whole thing is just too late.

You said:
Once you appear to NOT care, is when things start happening. (Whether you want it to, or not) Believe me on this one.

What exactly do you mean? Things will start happening whether I want it to or not? Meaning he will start calling me or he will kick the A into high gear?

Actually, we've gone back and forth on all this stuff. When I have distanced myself he would start trying harder. Now though he's just gone and I really have to push for time. I believe he is heavily involved w/OW and my attempt at spending time w/him is cutting into their time. So, if I back off isn't he just going to spend more time w/OW?

I'm so confused as to how all this works.

What I meant by that comment of whether you want it to or not, meaning he'll probably take on the challenge of trying to contact you, and pulling it all back to the way it was, (is now). And it would be up to YOU to resist this.

L2S, are you blaming yourself for his A? I can tell you, if you weren't around enough for him, before, and he was feeling lonely, he did not HAVE to handle it by finding someone else, to fill the void. There were many other ways to handle how he was feeling at the time, and that was NOT the answer. It's just an excuse, to shift the blame on you for HIS actions, and to make you feel guilty. That let's him "off the hook", so to speak. If his excuse wouldn't have been that you weren't around enough, then it would of been some other lame excuse. You just "happened" to provide him with something he could use. Otherwise, he would of addressed the "problem", at the time, in a different manner, if he was truly concerned about the marriage.

Again, just my take...you can tell me to kiss off at anytime, and I will <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />, but I hope you don't... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

L2S,

I hope I didn't run you off...I truly mean well when I post to you, not to offend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Hope all is well with you...

Jennifer

You didn't run me off. Heck, you guys can't get rid of me that easily!!!!!

We actually spent some of the weekend together (outside the time he spent w/her). Yesterday, he went to friends (I guess) out of town and then to SS and SDs till late evening. I left him alone. He called me.

He is expecting me to "come clean" regarding my feelings for OM. I'll tell him whatever he wants to hear to keep this going for now. I want him to tell me about being at her house Friday night but I know he won't. He has no clue that I know. He doesn't know that I have the VMs OW left him while he was out of town.

Saw him earlier. He had MD appt and I went w/to see what MD had to say so I would know what was going on. Anyway, talked about us and how hard it would be to put things together. Said he was willing to go to counselor.

Would it be crazy to make appt for us with the counselling center where OW works? I want to hear his excuses for not wanting to go there when I tell him where it is.

Maybe I shouldn't. I don't know. It really makes me angry that he sits there being Mr. Pompous acting as though he is so above board w/everything. He accuses me of having feelings for the OM that I won't admit to him but then lies to my face by telling me that it has been weeks since he was at OW's home and then just for business related reason.

I want so desperately to tell him what I know, have heard, have seen but, don't think right now is the right time to show my cards.

Advice?

Advice, please.

Do I tell him what I know about what he has done/is doing w/OW or do I keep my mouth shut for now?

Do I sched appt w/MC? If yes, do I sched where OW works to see what his reaction is? At some point the VMs will tell him (if I tell him I heard them) that I knew OW worked there. Will that do more harm than good?

He says he's willing to go to MC together or separate. There's lots to work through but..... who knows.

Would this be a waste of time? I'm really grasping at straws at this point and don't really know which way to turn.

We're not talking about living together again at this point, just counseling to see if we can work through major issues first.

Is this bad or good? He is still in contact w/OW. He doesn't know that I know as much as I do.

Do I tell him what I know?

Anybody out there.........

Need advice.

H was w/OW last night but told me another story. She left a VM that I got to before he did.

Do I tell him that I know what's going on and get everything out in the open or do I keep playing this cat and mouse game and get more proof of what he's doing?

I know most of you have told me to go NC and just leave him alone but, if I do that, it just gives him more time to b/w OW. How does this help?

I'm truly confused about all this and really don't know which direction to take.

If I find him at OWs house again, do I confront him there?

Please advise.

Okay folks.

I thank you all more than you will ever know for the advice you've given me. Have I used all given to me??? No.

Do I need more? Yes.

I really need to know where to go at this crossroads.

Do I move forward with divorce and forget any thought of trying to work on it?

Do I tell him what I know, confront OW w/what I know and go back home and try to make it work?

I do love him and know that there is enough left in me at least to work with.

Thoughts and advice, please.

Don't give up on me yet. I really, really need you guys.

***I know most of you have told me to go NC and just leave him alone but, if I do that, it just gives him more time to b/w OW. How does this help?***

Every BS thinks this way at first. You think you're just handing him to her on silver platter and then graciously stepping out of the way so they can scr*w each other's brains out in peace.

But that's not what happens.

Right now he is getting his Emotional Needs met by two women, and he is very much enjoying this no matter what he says.

If you suddenly drop your end of the load by going to Plan B, the OW is now forced to carry the whole load by herself.

Think she can do that?

Your sudden vanishing will throw a monkey wrench into Fantasyland because now it's just two proven liars and cheaters trying to meet each other's ENs. All you have to do is sit back and wait for the crash.

***Do I move forward with divorce and forget any thought of trying to work on it?***

If you don't want a divorce, then don't get one. If your husband thinks he wants one, then force him to do all the work. Don't lift a finger. You are under no obligation to help him dismantle your family.

***I do love him and know that there is enough left in me at least to work with.***

There is now, but there won't be any love left for him if you remain in this unholy threesome much longer. Plan B is to protect your feelings for the WS so that he's not able to destroy them completely.

Please look into Plan B. There is a lot of info on this site. Look up at the top under "Articles."

Good luck.
Mulan

**** If you suddenly drop your end of the load by going to Plan B, the OW is now forced to carry the whole load by herself.
Think she can do that?******

I'm not sure. He and I are separated x almost 2 years. That time has been incredibly rocky. I'm not sure what she can/is willing to actually do for him other than give him a warm, inviting atmosphere to land in.

I help w/alot of stuff around the house and with business paperwork. Don't know if she could/would do that but there are others who might step in.

Financially, we've left everything the same as it was the day I left. So, I pay all the bills and help with all financial upkeep of the home.

So, if I did Plan B should I tell him first that I am willing to work on the marriage which would mean no contact with OW, counseling, a higher level of accountability than what is current, etc. Do I tell him that if he is not in agreement with the above then I will take steps to hand all financial stuff over to him, and help only w/mortgage since I expect 1/2 equity?

Basically, do I give him an ultimatum? We work on it or I'm out of the picture in every way until he makes his mind up?

I really need the advice of someone who has been where my WH is now.

We've been separated x 2 years. He believes I had A w/guy at church. Did not but did have some talks w/this person which were construed as such.

My WH has tried to get me to come home but each time it was with a "if you come home I'll change" kind of promise. Never, "I've changed x and x and x and I'm ready for you to come home".

So, we've had a battle of the wills and neither of us have budged.

Now enter OW. Person he met through our business. Started in Nov. Suddenly hiding cell phone bills, etc. I've found out enough to know that he is at least spending way too much time w/her for her to be "friend" he says she is.

I've told him recently that I want to work on M; want to go to MC. He has agreed to MC but no longer is agreeable to me coming home right now. That is probably 'cause it would cut into his OW time.

When we separated (I left) everything financially stayed the same. My $ still goes into account. I pay all the bills. I help w/some laundry, groceries, our business paperwork, etc.

So, guys, what do I need to do?

Do I need to give him an ultimatum that we are going to work on it, NC with OW, we go to another church together or I go "away", take my $ and start separate account and he can handle everything until he decides what he wants to do?

I've already been to an attorney and have draft papers but haven't moved forward with anything. WH isn't pushing the issue.

A big part of me feels like an incredible fool for even considering a reconciliation w/WH. WH had A in first year of marriage and we have lots of other issues like stepkids but I do love him and believe we could work things out if (and this is a big if) we both were giving it 100% at the same time.

Need advise, please. What now?

First have you exposed to everyone you and he knows and who might be able to help? Inlaws, OWs significant other etc...
Plan A then Plan B, Call the Harleys for counseling and guidance and help with a plan.

Hopefully the pros will kick in here soon. They are great people who know what they are talking about, however you must pay attention to what they say and then implement it, unles the Harleys have told you to do something else.

I haven't exposed to anyone including my WH. He doesn't know that I am aware of a lot of the stuff that's going on. I don't know if I need to:

confront him at OWs home if I find him there
just tell him what I'm aware of and see what happens

As for exposing to inlaws they would not care at all. This type thing is common in that family.

I could expose to OWs workplace but I think my WH would kill me.

I haven't talked to Harleys. Not sure if I should contact them or try for local MC.

Your H is an abusive bully and liar. People like him do not change easily.

I doubt you will find any FWH here who was like your H. People like your H don't suddenly come on marriage building forums and offer to help others.

You've been advised by many here. If you choose to remain in a relationship with this man, you already know what your life is going to be like.

Is that the life you want?

Why all this worry about an other woman? That's the least of your worries. You know if you stay with him there will always be "another woman" somewhere. Might as well get used to it.

I find your H's behavior repulsive. He is not a man in my book.

Low

No, it's not the life I want. I do love him and believe there is a chance if we get counseling, church together, etc. It won't be easy but it is possible.

There are many good qualities about WH.

I know it sounds like I'm taking up for him and maybe I am. I know that the verbal abuse, etc. started after he believes I had A w/OM at church we both attended together.

This in no way excuses the behavior but, the above is why it happened.

Yeah, there are many problems not just another A.

When you say there will always be OW is that because of the multiple affairs already? I see many posting here who have done so but seem to be putting their marriages back together and moving forward.

I asked for your opinions/advice and I'm not trying to refute it because somewhere deep in my "gut" I'm afraid you are right about everything.

I guess what I am really asking is what do I do to bring all this to a head so that I can truly see what I'm dealing with and which step to take next.

Please keep advising.

For long periods of time my H acted totally different. I have to be honest in saying that I have done things to anger him. I didn't try to make him angry but my actions did make him lash out. Examples are:

1) I have lied to him about things big and small. Now, the reason I lied is because of how I knew he would react but, nonetheless, I did lie and that's a huge problem that I need to fix regardless of my marital state. I own that problem.

2) I talked to OM at our church. I never had any contact of any kind w/OM outside church but, in reading many posts on this site I was wrong and acted inappropriately.

3) My H and I have been separated x almost 2 years. He has begged me to come home and I have always put up roadblocks. The roadblocks are reasons why I left in the first place and things that were still going on but still he asked me to come home multiple times and I refused.

The nastiness and anger and abuse were a result of 1-3 above. I never felt like I could go home and have a chance of repairing things with stuff still like it was when I left.

Now, there's a second A and he has told me that it is my fault because he kept telling me he was lonely and that he did not intend to remain by himself. He blames me for this and says if I had been the wife I should have been this would not have happened. He hasn't admitted to A but says OW is a friend he can talk to.

I am 99.9% sure he is lying.

I'm still unsure if I should confront him w/knowledge and tell him we will go to MC and he is to have NC w/OW or we move to divorce.

Help, please.

L2S,

You cannot control his actions or tell him to do anything. All of the things you have listed above as was claimed to be your fault, are "free" excuses for him to use against you to make you feel guilty and take the blame, so he doesn't have to "own" it.

I really think you should be putting all of this effort into a NC plan, between you and him. Quit obsessing about the OW and this marriage. You already know he is lying to you, and even if you chose to confront him with his lies, he will just use one of his free excuses to turn it around on you. I doubt very highly, from the way he sounds, that he will respond to you by saying, "Honey, you're right, I've been untruthful and abusive to you. Let's get help". I don't see this happening, L2S. I fear not only for your emotional state, but I fear mostly for your physical safety.

I'm sorry, L2S, if this hurts you, but I really think it's time to look at this situation for what it is, instead of trying so hard to change it.

Please take care...

Jennifer

Need advice. I know I drive you guys crazy asking constantly for advice but, I have absolutely no one else to talk to about all this. No one else knows about A and I don't have anyone close outside family that I can talk to. I don't want to involve my family any more at this point so I really need you guys. Please bear with me.

Last night WH fabricated story in order to go to OWs.

Fabricating stories tonight, too to keep me from coming to house. I want to go to OWs and see if he's there. If I do should I confront him w/her there. She apparently thinks he's this great guy and he may have told her our marriage is over, etc. He also is telling me they're just friends and she's someone he can talk to. I know, classic WH story.

Should I go to door if he's there?

and what would that accomplish?

Do you think he would say, "Oh life, you're so right. I don't know what I'm doing here. I love and adore you. She forced me here and I'll never speak to her again. I'll follow you home." and the ow say, "You're married? Get out of here you cad. I'm so sorry life, I didn't know he was married. Please, please forgive me."

Unless you're interested making new friends by meeting police officers, I'd stay off her property if I were you...

L2S,

Did you see my post above?

I see your point although I don't think OW would call police. The area is quite ritzy and I don't think she would want to call attention to herself in that manner.

So, what do I do?

Should I go there and see if he is there? Should I go to the entrance of the area (gated community) and see if he goes there or comes out of there?

I know you are right about your scenario. I can't believe I'm in this situation and I don't know where to go from here.

So, if you don't think confronting is good idea, do I simply tell him what I know and ask him what he intends to do about it.

L2S,

I don't know if we are cross posting, or if you simply aren't interested in my advise. Either way, I hope you're ok.

Jennifer

J68,
No, I didn't see your response. Sorry.

And yes, I do value your opinion very much.

I have two questions:
1) Do I tell him what I know and how I know, i.e. tell him about the voicemails and seeing him at OW house last Friday night? Also VM from her last night about him not calling her when he left. (BTW he has change password to VM and I haven't figured it out yet.)

2) Secondly, do I tell him that I'm done with the games and then ...... what? Do I give him an ultimatum, OW or me?

Do I tell him that I will have no contact until he has broken off w/OW? Do I tell him that I am moving forward
w/divorce proceedings?

What exactly do I do?

I know you said NC. Is this the same as Plan B? How far do I take this? Do I simply disappear out of his life and, if yes, for how long?

Do I start separate checking account and start separating everything out?

Do I start prepping for divorce or just sit tight and see what happens?

life,
You are running around like crazy. You have no plan. You are simply reacting to whatever he does instead of thinking about how YOU can regain control of this situation.

Forget about what WH and OW are doing for the moment. Have you read up on Plan A and Plan B? Have you read about them on this site and/or in the book *Surviving an Affair*?

The answers to most of the questions you are asking will be found there.

Do you have a PLAN for how to handle this, or will you just keep on wildly bouncing off of whatever happens like the ball inside a pinball machine?
Mulan

At this point I am like a raft in a river full of rocks. I'm just bouncing off the rocks as I hit them.

I don't have a clue what I'm doing, what I should be doing.

I am so angry with myself for letting things get this far and be so crazy for this long.

I want to tell him what I know because I'm so tired of the lies. I want my husband back and my life back. I want my home back. I want what I don't have and it hurts.

I can't do Plan A to the fullest extent because we are separated. I've done a lot to continue helping him and I have enabled him to be w/OW.

I don't know how Plan B will work because he apparently couldn't care less. But, if Plan B is the best option I have at this point to bring all this to an end, so be it.

Question - Church. Do I go to another church at this point because he doesn't want me at mine because of OM or do I tell him that i will go to my church as long as he continues R w/OW?

Ok, I'm glad I didn't scare you off!

Here would be my answers to your Q's.

1) No, do not confront him with what you know.
2) Yes, you are done with the games, without the ultimatum.

Yes, start dividing your joint interests, and begin to protect your side of it. If he's capable of breaking your heart and breaking your vows, and has the potential for violence, then I'm sure he's capable of just about anything.

How long should you disappear? Indefinately. Long enough to clear your head, heart and soul.

You have more to think of, then just surviving an affair. And when you've had enough time away from all of this, you will be able to actually SEE this.

Hope this makes sense... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

Life - please. Just stop. Take a very deep breath and just STOP.

You need more information so you can make a plan. You can't go on like this indefinitely. Asking 10,000 different questions an hour is not going to help you. You need to get some information on your own and then you will know what questions to ask instead of trying to ask about everything at once.

Read the articles on this site. Not just the forums -- go up to the top and click on "Articles".

Order *Surviving an Affair*. You can get it from this website or from Amazon.com or possibly from your local bookstore.

*Love Must Be Tough* by James Dobson is good, too.

Okay. Breathe. Start reading. Then think about what you want to ask. It will all make a lot more sense then.
Mulan

Why would I not tell him that I know what he has been doing?

What reason do I give him for "disappearing"? Do I tell him that I sense that he is no longer interested in making our marriage work so I am removing myself from his life?

Do I not say anything about the OW and the part that the A is playing in all this?

I truly would like to work on the M and I am confused by how any of this would help if I am not telling him that I know what's going on and am asking him to give OW up.

Help.

I really want to get all out in the open but I'm confused about the premises of NC versus Plan B.

Need help.

Telling him what you know could easily backfire on you. (He could use it against you and blame you)

Tell him that as awkward as it may feel, you sense that you should back away for a while, and take some time to clear your head. He'll know you know something. And that's all he NEEDS to know for now.

I know you just want your life back, and this hurts, but if you want any quality of your life back, it's time to take this seriously.

If I want him to end the A (I believe it is in the beginning stages and may not be PA yet) wouldn't walking away be counterproductive? That would give him even more "reason" to pursue OW.

If I walk away what would I tell him that would make him understand that this is not what I want but simply what I see as a necessity because of the way he is acting?

Also, my DD goes there after school daily. Hard to fix that one but not impossible. Company paperwork - I do a lot of that. I know it would be his problem but that might make things worse.

I'm just confused. If I make him mad how will NC make things better or is the intent of NC to totally destroy what's left?

You know, Mulan is right. Slow down and read up. This is one thing you could do to occupy your mind, by reading and learning, and rebuilding your strength. Something healthy for YOU. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

J68, Mulan,
I have read most of those articles as well as many other posts, etc. here.

I'm just really confused about how to move forward without exposing the A. Or, are you saying that this is beyond all help/repair and I just need to move on by myself.

Questions:
1. This is the point I'm really confused on. Part A is to break up the affair, Part B is if Part A doesn't work. Is NC the same as Plan B? (Maybe I've been reading TOO MUCH!!!)

2. Should I just tell him that he needs to decide what he wants and I am going to give him the time and space to make that decision. Should I tell him that i am going to separate our checking account, cancel joint credit card, pay 1/2 mortgage and rest is on him since I no longer live there? SHould I tell him he needs to get someone else to help him w/paperwork or do it himself since he seems to have too much free time?

3. Why would I not tell him that I know what's going on w/OW? Why would I not want to do something toward breaking that up?

Walking away would not be counterproductive, it would be making a statement; an act of respect for yourself, by saying, "As much as I love you, I respect myself even MORE, and will no longer allow myself to be a part of this."

You know, ordinarily, I would be all for reading up and learning everything there is out there to save a marriage, but I can't seem to get past the abuse and threats he's made towards you. This is not just about an affair, L2S.

But as for now, just order the books as suggested, and take some time out for yourself, to get educated with this, so you can get some kind of plan in order.

bump

please read about plan A and plan B

you need to do a good plan A and expose the affair before you are ready to consider plan B

you CAN plan A while separated

How can I do a good Plan A when I am not living in home w/H and he doesn't want me back home at this point?

Where are some good Plan A posts for this while separated?

Please click on the link below:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

Mulan

bumping this up

Had conversations w/H about the OW. Told him just about everything that I knew. H says it was all "a joke". OW is a counselor of sorts and told my H that a couple of times in the past she has intentionally left VMs on other mens' mailboxes that wife had access to so wife would hear and think something was going on and get concerned. Said OW said this made wife get off fence.

The VMs were just ploys to get me to make decision. Now, H says he isn't sure what he wants and thinks D would be best thing to do. Too much to get past for HIM.... my R w/OM at church, way I treated his kids, way I don't discipline my child, way I have lied about stuff, on and on and on.

Said he thinks he can be happy w/OW but that they've only been good friends to this point. Says that he won't give OW up as a friend.

So, that's where we are.

I've asked him about MC. He says right now he thinks it would be a waste of $.

I've thought about making appt w/the head of the counseling center where OW works and playing the VMs for him and getting his opinion as to whether this is a joke or not.

Thoughts.

A JOKE? Is he serious? What kind of humor would this be?? Especially for a "Counselor"? Is this one of her professional techniques, that she uses with her clients? That's sick!

Well whether it was a joke or not, the whole thing is just wrong! I'm not sure about the playing it for the head of the center, although, this could also be a problem for her clients, who are innocent, and needing real help. WOW, what a twist!

I'm sorry, L2S, I'm not meaning to react to this so bluntly, I'm just kind of shocked by it.

It sounds like your H answered your question on the MC, and not giving up his twisted little friend. Sounds like they're two peas in a pod...

I'm sorry for your pain, L2S, and I will continue to pray for you. Take care YOU! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

OW isn't a marriage counselor. She is actually a parenting coach. She works in a center that has multiple counseling type services.

I agree that it is a sick joke if that was what it was. I'm not convinced. Per him, OW was helping him by making me think there was OW so I would "wake up" and either get mad and file or try to work on things.

I've considered calling her to see what she would say regarding friendship, etc. but I haven't worked up the courage. He has said I could but it's almost said in a threatening nasty way, not like "I have nothing to hide and if it would make you feel better please call her".

I'm continuing to ask him about MC and about a weekend getaway marriage seminar. So far he hasn't definitely said "no" but not "yes" either. I know a part of the problem is that we've each been at this point before individually but not both willing at the same time and he's hesitant. That I understand.

I am not really sure where to go from here.

He has said that he doesn't think he can handle the fact that I was talking to the OM. I can handle his A, the stuff with the 2nd ex and now this but, Mr. Ego can't handle the fact that I talked to someone else.

Go figure.

Would you call the OW and ask her to back off? Or, what would you say to her if you would call her?

Regarding MC, would you continue to push for counseling? Would it help even if the WS wasn't totally committed? Could something useful get through to them?

Is it worth the effort?

life..

why not go back and read every post you've posted here at MB..I think that might give you a better perspective.

You were ready to leave and I thought justifably so. He and his children have a history of treating you poorly. Now that he's threatening to leave, all of a sudden you're wanting to repair the marriage. I know this is natural because one tends to hit the panic button when faced with losing what was a big part of their life for a very long time. It's so different when it's your decision vs. someone forcing the decision upon you.

I understand the feeling as I've been there as well in the past. The panic of losing something that's unhealthy seems brighter when facing making it on your own. The unknown can be scarier than the familiar misery.

The sad thing is often we blow the unknown to be so frightening that we will stay where it is much worse...without so much as a try.

I'm not making any judgement on your situation and am not encouraging you to do anything one way or the other. I just recognize myself long ago in your posts. Just print off all your posts, compare them and take an objective look.

You and so many others (Ark, Jennifer68, etc) are right and I know that you're right.

I know that getting out of the situation is probably the best thing for me to do. I just have a difficult time of seeing it for what it is.

You're right when you say I am panicking; I am. My life has been so intertwined w/his for so long I'm having a hard time seeing it as just me, not a part of a couple.

I know you're not judging me. Your giving advice. I appreciate that. No one here is telling me what I want to hear. You all are telling me the truth. Sad thing is though that I'm the only one who can act on it and I'm having a hard time doing it.

As for kids, I have to say I've acted poorly as well. I can excuse it all away but, I had a hard time dealing w/them for many reasons and was unrealistic in some of my expectations.

L2S,

So the OW uses this as a way to get "you" off the fence, as if this is HER job? Well, if you do end up speaking to her, it should only to be able to tell her, "He's ALL yours, Sugar! I am now officially "off" the fence, and on to bigger and better trails!" "Oh but hey, thankyou for your services. I can honestly say, I got what I paid for! ($0.00) You're a true PRO! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Love ya'!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

This really isn't cool, L2S! Just remember, your boots were made for walk'n, and that's just what they should do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

I'm away for the weekend and believe H is w/OW. It drives me crazy. H can come up w/all sorts of plausible excuses as to why he didn't answer home phone, why he didn't answer cell phone, why he didn't x and x and x.
I want to catch him redhanded (as if I don't have enough proof of problem so far). He's just so smooth w/the lies but that's exactly what I believe he's doing.
Oh, well. One of these days I will learn.

L2S,

I haven't posted to you before now, but looking at this from an objective outsider's point of view I have several thoughts...First, your WH is an abuser - plain and simple and he's still doing it by trying to "gaslight" you about OW's so-called "counseling technique" to get you off the fence. I am offended for you that he would think you are that gullible and stupid.

Secondly, what the heck does it matter whether he has an OW? She is NOTHING compared to the abuse he keeps heaping on you. You are worrying about the scratch on your arm (OW) while your jugular vein is hemhoraging (sp?) (WH's abuse).

Now, if it were me, instead of calling her (which will get you nowhere, trust me, BTDT) I WOULD call the head of the counseling center and ask him/her about his/her employee's questionable counseling techniques and whether this is something both he and practice in the profession condone. You might also ask him whether he considers your husband abusive and whether trying to repair your marriage is a healthy goal on your part.

Regards,

BB

Ditto...

You have no idea how much I want to expose OW to her boss but, I believe I would be creating a nightmare for myself if I did. My H has threatened me for 2 years w/exposing my teenage past to all who would listen. While I am no longer that person I don't want others to know about some of the stuff I did.

There are some who probably wouldn't give him the time of day if he tried it. There are some who would say "So"? There are some who would help it spread like wildfire. There are things in my past that I wouldn't want my child to know.

He has now told me that although I am willing to forgive and forget and move forward, he isn't sure that he can. He isn't sure that he can forgive me for talking to OM. I can forgive the A, the resumption of relationship w/2nd EXW, the "friendship" with current OW, etc. I can forgive the abuse, the stuff w/stepkids, etc., etc., etc.

But, he can't forgive me for talking to OM. He is convinced that I had an A. If I ever went away w/job for weekend, he's convinced the OM went. If I didn't/don't answer cell when he calls, he's convinced I'm talking w/OM. !00% of this is absolutely false but I can't convince him otherwise.

He has never found a phone number that could be traced to OM. Why? I haven't called him/him called me.

He is always telling me that people used to tell him they saw me talking w/OM. He tells me about conversations I supposedly had with OM. Okay, so if all that's true and people are so willing to run to him about all this stuff, why hasn't anyone ever told him that OM went out of town with me to X or that I was seen at X with OM? Because it never happened. Just can't convince him.

He's now saying that if I have to have an answer today about what he thinks we need to do, I need to move forward w/the divorce. He's willing to wait and see if we can get along but that's all. Doesn't want MC; waste of $ at this point. Doesn't want me to come home; too much to go through again if it doesn't work.

He is bating you. Tell him to give you the names so you can check out his story. Bet he won't cuz he can't.

L.

You can't prove a negative. You can't prove you didn't talk to supposed OM and you can't prove he didn't go on these trips. This is all nonsense and he's jerking you around.

I don't know what you did as a teenager and unless it was mass murder, it's probably the same behavior most teenagers did. Goodness gracious, everyone's stupid when they're a teenager. If he told whatever you did, people will just look at him as if he were an idiot. Who cares?

If you're worried about your child finding out then go ahead and share the information with them. Whatever this is is holding you hostage and he is as well. You can use this situation as a learning tool for your child.

With his attitude about MC and "waiting to see if you get along" which translates to if everything is done to suit me and me alone, what are you hoping that will be different? You want to go back to that same misery? Because you know good and well that's what it will be. Misery.

Write him a Plan B letter spelling out the conditions of repairing the marriage, if he doesn't comply, then it is time to move on with the divorce. Who wants to live with an adulterous man who spews out accusations of your misdeeds of long ago, allows his children to treat you with disrespect, threatens to reveal private conversations between the two of you, and wants everything on his terms without compromise? I certainly wouldn't. Noone in their right mind would either.

L2S...are you still around? Let us know how you're doing.

Jennifer

Jennifer,
I'm still out there somewhere!! I'm in a state of confusion. H says he wants to see if we can get along before we take any steps toward working things out. I don't know exactly what this means but:

doesn't want me to come home
doesn't want us to go to church together at neutral church

We can talk on the phone; do so numerous times per day.
I can go to house and we talk, work on stuff, etc.

No talk about relationship. Says he has no contact w/OW, etc. Don't know that I believe that.

So, I'm still in limbo. Don't have a marriage. Aren't getting a divorce.

I asked him earlier what we're doing. He said he wants to make sure that we can get along and that I am not going to start being nasty again. He says I'm nasty to him when he tries to be nice. Actually, he has cursed me so much that I am always wondering when he's going to change again.

So, I guess I'm doing a Plan A to see what happens. Not sure how long this needs to go on.

I'm sorry you're going thru so much, L2S. I know this has to be sooo frusterating. I just hope the light will start to shine thru which ever door it is you need to step thru. Hang in there and keep us posted. Take Care...Jennifer

I will. I still needs lots of help and advice. I truly do take it to heart. I keep praying for a sign but, I don't think I would get it if God slapped me in the face!!
Thanks for the help and for checking on me.
I'll keep in touch.

Well, L2S, we just need to pray that God will help you SEE the signs, and acknowledge them, and the strength to act on them.

There...I just said a little prayer to myself, for this, and also for guidence in the direction you need to take. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />Amen! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

Bumping back up, you doing ok?

Life..sweetie, I think you see the signs..it's just scary for you to take that step of faith..one way or the other.

Being married to a narcissist, I realized that life got to be all about him and little about me. It's a very difficult life and my fault for allowing it. It's like the old story about the cannibals who put their prey in a big pot of water. The cannibals slowly heat the water and without realizing it, the prey is cooked! Evaluate your life and make sure it isn't just all about him. It's your life as well and make it so.

You've got to find that place within you that I refer to as the "that's crap" flag. I learned to recognize the "crap" he spewed my way to manipulate me. When it didn't work anymore, my life was so much easier.

Jennifer,
I'm doing okay. Still letting him get to me. I wish I didn't but I do. H told me what I believe are a couple of whopper stories to cover his tracks Friday night and yesterday evening. I am seriously considering A GPS device just to see what's really going on.

I guess the thing that makes me the maddest is that he accuses me of all sorts of stuff that I'm not doing but when I confront him about some of the weird stuff he does he blows up, cusses me out and hangs up. Did that a little while ago.

The latest thing now is that he is saying that if I have to have an answer right now as to what is going on between us we need to go file for D. I don't know if he's bluffing or if he is so wrapped up in OW or what. A friend seems to think that if I said "OK" let's go file, he would back down. I'm not so sure. Scared to take that leap.

He won out again about the church thing; I stayed home. But, now he's saying I need to go. All along he has gotten nasty when I went; now he says I need to go to prove to myself that I can be around OM but not talk to him. I don't need to prove that to myself. I don't have anything to do w/OM. Not sure what that is supposed to mean unless he just doesn't care anymore what I do.

JPH
You've got to find that place within you that I refer to as the "that's crap" flag. I learned to recognize the "crap" he spewed my way to manipulate me. When it didn't work anymore, my life was so much easier.

You're right. I guess that's why I want to do the GPS thing and find out exactly what's been going on. He makes up these unbelievably complex stories about what's going on and I think it's total "c**p". I just don't know why he is still holding on. If he doesn't want me in his life and he wants this OW then why doesn't he go file unless it's that I help him w/paperwork and my $ is still paying the bills and is at his disposal 100%.

L2S,

I'm glad to see you here, today. I have to leave for a while, but would like to check back here to chat with ya', if you'd like. I'm not trying to be pushy on ya' with my opinions, just want to make sure you're ok.

Jennifer

I'll be here.

Well, I'm back.

I think the reason he's accusing you of stuff, is to cover his own actions. It's the ol' "turn the tables" trick. To justify his actions in his own mind.

Also, the part about "having to answer right now"...how long has this been going on? Is he asking you to wait, or else it will just be divorce? He could use that to keep you in limbo, FOREVER, just so he can have the best of both worlds, with no regards to your feelings. It's all about him, "right now", and more likely, always will be, L2S.

I know you are in ******, L2S! And there is no place more painful then this. I just worry about your emotional, spiritual and physical safety. Don't quit going to church over this. If ever you needed the spiritual guidance, it would be now. Hang in there...

Jennifer

Life..do you really need the GPS? You know what he's spewing out at you is "crap" because as you say he makes up these unbelievable stories. If someone asks me where I've been I just say where I've been. There's no story that needs to go along with it unless I'm doing something I'm not supposed to be doing. See that's the "crap flag." Once you refuse to be manipulated by him, it will be easier and easier to see what he is doing.

I agree with Jennifer wholeheartedly. Don't quit going to church. That business about the OM that was never an OM is his manipulation of you. I remember when my stbx was a WH and he accused me of having an affair with my boss. It was so ridiculous that I laughed out loud. Their minds are so messed up that anything that comes out of their mouths should be disregarded.

Could it be that he's addicted to the drama in your lives and he's feeding off your fears? Make an appointment with your pastor and maybe he or a suggested counselor can help you with those fears.

You also might want to consider eliminating his access to your finances and assistance in paperwork. That would tell you if your suspicions about staying around for the $ is valid.

L2S,

I hope I haven't come on too strong with my opinions. My intensions are not to drive you away, or cause you more pain than you already have.

I really do wish the best with whatever direction your situation goes. I apologize, if I was too forward with my thoughts. I tend to think outloud, too much, sometimes! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Take Care....Jennifer

You know, I'm not really sure what's going on anymore. It seems that, at least in his mind, he has successfully convinced himself that I am the cause of all our problems. If I hadn't lied about my past as a teenager he would never have married me or had the first affair. If I hadn't treated his kids so horribly he would never have treated me the way he did. If I hadn't continued to lie about my past for years he wouldn't have moved my stepson/wife/baby in when I finally told him the truth. If I hadn't talked to the OM at church, he would never have stopped going. If I hadn't talked to the OM he would never have resumed relationship w/2nd EXW. If I hadn't stayed away he wouldn't have started friendship w/OW. If I hadn't made him so mad, he wouldn't have cursed me out, thrown stuff at me, threatened to expose my past, etc. etc. etc.

It's all my fault.

I don't want to stop going to church for many reasons, none of which have anything to do with OM. I have told him we can go to a different church together. Now he doesn't want to.

JPH
As for the GPS thing, no, I don't need it to confirm anything but, you'd have to know my H to know that he will go to great lengths for this type stuff. There's a real possibility that he did exactly what he said he did. He's strange that way. He loves to play cat and mouse games. You may be right - he probably does love the drama. There's something going on all the time w/him.

I guess I would just really like to know what's going on. I think the not knowing is worse than knowing what I'm truly dealing with.

And, if I truly find out that he is telling lies about what's going on I HOPE that might give me the final push I need to say "no more" and proceed w/D.

Ok, I could understand now, why you'd want to know. Maybe this would be a push for you. I know that's what it took for me to "see the light". But sometimes, seeing too much, can be very painful, as well. And very hard to forget or wipe out of your mind. Are you prepared for what you could find out, or actually "see" with your own eyes?

I normally wouldn't discourage finding out anything you need to know, but you have bigger reasons for leaving, besides this. But if that is what it would take for you, then maybe you should. I really do wish you the best!

Jennifer

WH has developed a friendship w/elderly man who helps him do some woodworking. Never wanted to take me along b/c this man curses a lot and my H says that would make me uncomfortable.

Well, just found out by adding together bits and pieces my WH has said over last couple of weeks that this elderly man and his wife are the step dad and mom of the OW!!!

Do I tell my WH what I know? No wonder he didn't want me over there. OW is probably going w/him when he goes.

WH says he wants our M to work but doesn't want to be hurt anymore or to hurt me if it doesn't work. He wants to take one day at a time. We remain separated, don't go to church together, he still gets separate life like this......

Advice, please.

L2S...I'm sorry to hear about this. It seems you are finding out more as you go. Are you holding up alright thru all of this?

Even though he tells you he wants the M to work out, I'm sad to say, that in my opinion, it just won't. He will continue to hurt you. And as far as you hurting him??? That's the "table turning" game, to cause you guilt, by shifting it all on you. It's an excuse for him to carry on whatever it is he's doing, that he KNOWS is wrong. He seems to be VERY good at this, L2S. Because it seems to work.

L2S, there are SOOO many people out there, who would treat you SOOO much better than this, and you won't ever know who they are, or how it feels, to be loved, cherished and respected as a WELL DESERVING, WORTHY HUMAN BEING of a WOMAN, if you allow this situation to continue. YOU, a real, LIVE human being, with REAL feelings, deserve waaay better than to live like this, in your own personal prison. Honey, you've done your time, and you can be released at ANY time. But it's up to you, to take the first steps, and actually walk thru that door... of FREEDOM. Freedom of saddness, sorrow, grief, guilt, despair and ABUSE. There is another WHOLE world out there, L2S, if you choose to take a look. And I hope you do, because it's not all as ugly as we think. There IS some good out there. Don't rob yourself of this! Afterall...Life IS 2 Short <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />...

Please take care, and keep posting!

Jennifer

Yesterday was our anniversary. I spent night at house and didn't tell him I was. Wanted to surprise him. Well, backfired on me. He was mad b/c I didn't tell him. Thought I was trying to catch him w/OW. Said I couldn't expect him to just "jump" b/c now I want M to work. Said he didn't think it was going to work. Called me all sorts of nasty names again and got really angry over nothing!! Said he doesn't trust me, that I'm always trying to catch him in something. "Hit dogs holler"!!!

He had to work late on a job (this I know was true). When he came in he said very little. This morning he acted as though last night never happened.

I don't really know what to do from here.

I am doing okay but I am really getting hurt all over again. I am going to try my best to back off; let go and let God. I don't want to hurt anymore and I know I'm just doing it to myself.

When the weekend rolls around, if he tells me that he's going to the elderly man's house to help him w/some project (he spends a lot of time over there and I'm sure OW meets him there or he picks her up and takes her since it's her mom's house) I am really considering just going over there and confronting him. That might be stupid on my part and I might be creating a mess for myself but, I wonder if they know that he's married.

Oh well, just rambling. I want a resolution one way or the other. I think my head knows it's over and that it should be but, my heart hasn't caught up yet. I miss what we had and I keep holding on to the what-ifs.

I really feel like I'm fighting a losing battle. I am getting very desperate and I hate feeling that way. I'm doing as much as I can from afar (Plan A) but we still argue. He baits me with little comments that I try to ignore.

There are times when I want to go to Plan B and avoid all contact. I think about changing financial stuff, getting important stuff out of house and let him handle everything. That's what he'll do if we D.

But then, I think about just packing my stuff and going back home and telling him to deal w/it. Tell him if he doesn't want me there he can leave.

Then, I think that I really need to go forward with D and let him have OW. Maybe they can be happy together and I can get on w/my life.

I think I think too much. My emotions are in such turmoil I don't know which plan to do: A, B or D.

L2S, did you see my previous post, right before your last 2 posts? I still mean every word of it! You're TOOO good for this. Which is worse, living with your secrets exposed by H, or living like this the rest of your life? The secrets are in your past, THIS situation, is your present. What do you wish for your future, L2S?

Every time I get close to saying "no more" something always happens to pull me back. I don't know why that happens. I know that I am not to blame for the way he has acted. I know that he chose to do what he did just as I chose to make the mistakes I've made.

For my future I want to be in a committed relationship with someone I can share my life with. I am just having such a hard time letting go. I don't want it to be over and I don't know what to do. I keep thinking that something is going to happen to wake him up or wake me up.

I'm just in a state of total confusion. I love him and want to make it work. I know that sounds crazy but I miss him. I know a lot of folks probably think I'm pretty stupid or pathetic or whatever but, I can't imagine him being totally out of my life.

I know you can't imagine life without him, but can you imagine even giving yourself the chance to imagine it? Imagine having that committed relationship with someone. Someone you could share your life with. This COULD happen! It CAN be possible! With someone who would love you the way you would WANT to be loved. And someone who would accept your love in return, and appreciate it. Do you ever wonder what this would be like? Think about this, seriously.

Ok, L2S, don't run off on me, now!

L2S...Are you around today?

Jennifer,
I'm around. Had some family issues to deal w/last night (not related to H). Actually, DD and I spent night w/H though. She got there early and I came much later. We stayed there all day; H had to work. Just got back to our house a few minutes ago. Didn't want to risk accessing web from H's (our) house.

Yes. I have imagined a life w/someone who would love me for me. Someone I didn't have to lie to about my past or someone who would love me as I am and not for things I can't undo. I've thought too about being able to start fresh w/someone who has never cheated on me, never done the hurtful things that my H has done.

I really don't know what's going on. He gets mad over nothing and says he doesn't want to be married to me anymore and then turns right around and says he loves me and wants it to work, misses what we had but doesn't want to hurt me or to be hurt anymore.

Then, there's the thing with the OW. I don't know if she's a friend or EA/PA. I do know that elderly man H's been so secretive about is actually OW's stepdad. H mentioned going over there again tomorrow. I'm tempted to go as well just to see if he is there. If he isn't then he's probably with OW. Of course, she may go w/him.

I'm very tempted to go there and actually ring bell and introduce myself. I'm sure H would go ballistic. Good. They need to see what he's capable of.

I don't know. I don't know what to do, think, feel, say, etc. anymore. I am in real turmoil. I need a solution to the mess I've gotten myself in. I don't know why I can't let go if that's what I'm supposed to do. Maybe I'm having a hard time because I'm not supposed to let go.

I'm really so tired of trying to figure out what everything means. In late December he was text messaging me that I was the love of his life and he never knew true love until me. Then less than 4 weeks later he's not sure he wants us together.

I just don't know.

Well, L2S, even if you don't pursue a D right now, I think you should seriously consider at least a Plan B. Go dark, for a while. Others here can help you better with this plan. But you definately need some structure with whatever you plan to do. Things are too scrambled for any progress to happen.

I hope you are ok. I often think of you and your situation. Take Care...Jennifer

Get off that A rollercoaster and get a good plan. Can you call Steve @ MB for some phone cousenling?

L.

Oh God. I don't know what to do. I found out where the elderly man lived (OWs mom/stepdad). After church (went to church other than my own) found the old man's house. My H wasn't there. Left and was driving down highway and I met him going in that house's direction; he didn't see me.

I turned around and followed him. When he saw that I was behind him he did not go to that house but turned around and went to a store up the street. OW was w/him.

He told me that he thought our M should be over. That it wasn't going to work. That he had thought that for some time. I went to H's vehicle to talk/confront her. Rememeber, she's a counselor of sorts. She was quite calm. My H was his usual jerky self. it really hurt that he was a jerk to me in front of her.

She assured me that today would be the last day they would have anything to do w/each other. Said she wasn't the OW. She was a friend only. Said my H is a wonderful treasure of a man and that she thought we had been apart x 2 years. I told her that I see him every day, talk to him multiple times, still have a relationship with him. She said she didn't know. Said she didn't know I loved him.

Long story short he told me he wants it over. They left together and went back to her mom's house. He said he would call me later.

She asked me if I loved him so much why wasn't I still w/him? She said that if I loved him so much I would focus on him and not the stuff his kids did. His kids have been a major problem with us. Basically, they used him and me in the process. There's been a lot of bad blood there. I told my H a couple of weeks ago that I would do whatever I could to repair things w/them and try to move forward.

I told her that there were things she didn't know about and things that were none of her business. My H defended her!!!! God that hurt.

I think he has told her all sorts of one-sided stuff. He did tell me a couple of weeks ago that he thought she was someone he could have a relationship with.

He just called me and said he would call me later and that we need to talk. He said everything would be okay and that everybody would end up happy. I have no clue what that means.

I am so hurt, so confused, so lost. I have no one to talk to about any of this. Absolutely no one.

Please help. At least give me a shoulder to cry on.

Just forgot. WH and OW did not want her parents involved. They involved them, not me. But, they are elderly and aren't a part of this that I'm aware of. Just a safe place for the two of them to cavort. So don't know what I'll do if anything about that.

When my H called me a few minutes ago he asked who I had told. I told him no one. Not sure if I'll tell anyone or not. I'm just so crushed by seeing my fears confirmed.

I don't believe her for a minute that she doesn't have her sights set on my H. She's divorced. He apparently fits in well w/her family. How sweet. I have her VMs on tape telling him how much she loved him. When I mentioned that today she got flustered then said she "loves everyone" and tells everyone that she "loves them". She said she does love my H but as a friend. I didn't tell her I had VMs taped, just that I heard them.

Asked me why when I found my H at her house one night why I didn't come in.

I was trying to mention to OW that my H said the reason she left the VMs was to make me thing someone else wanted him so I would make a decision either way. H cut me off and I dropped it.

L2, people here have been asking you what plan you are in. You have no answer for us, but you do continue to run around in a full-blown panic and then wonder why nothing changes.

Plan A.

Plan B.

Pick one. You have got to take control here and you cannot do that when you continue to rush around in a panic instead of getting a Plan.

No one here can help you until you calm down, start to think, and get a Plan. Then there will be plenty that you can do to HELP things, or at the very least help YOURSELF and YOUR CHILDREN.
Mulan

L2S, is THIS the way you want to live the rest of your life? And your kids...is this what you want them to learn and take into their adulthood with them? If you choose to stay, this is it, the real deal. You'll get what you pay for, or worse yet, PAY for what you get!

Sweetie, I'm not trying to be hard on you, but this is kind of a "fog" all of your own.

Like what was said before, it's been suggested many times to get into a plan of some kind. And I think with not just the emotional and verbal abuse you have suffered, but along with the physical abuse, as well, you should seriously consider Plan D. This is NOT healthy, for you or the kids.

This is just my take, but it is TIME, right NOW, to break thru this fog, and start to see things with your head and not your heart. Lay it out and develop some sort of structured arrangement. You said yourself the other day, that the possibility of seeing some of this for yourself, might give you that little push you needed to proceed. Well now you have it. You actually SAW them together. What's it going to be?

You know, we love ya' here, L2S... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />this is why we respond and keep at ya'! Because we care. So, think about this, and post back. We're here for ya'! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

I have no plan. I am running scared. Scared to lose my M, scared to stay and try to make it work.

I finally talked to H about 10:15 last night; finally came home. Said OW said she would not call him and would not take his calls. Said she was sorry that I was hurt by their friendship. OW assured me they were just friends. Funny, I can't have a friendship w/OM but my H can be friends with whomever he wants.

H said he does not want to make M work. Said he wants D. Said he wants to come to church Wed and talk to OM with 3-4 other people in the church who have told him things. Then, he probably intends to tell OM in my presence all about what a sl*t, wh**e I am and reveal some of my distant past mistakes to him and then leave and later in week file for D. That's just my guess.

I don't know R between H and OW. I can only go on what I've been told.

Are you going to start thinking of a plan?

L2S...you keep falling off the first page. I hope you're doing ok...Jennifer

I'm surviving. I have put myself in a very bad place by opening back up to the possibility of working things out. I was hesitant but now want to and now he is hesitant. He keeps saying if I need an answer right now, the answer is D. Doesn't want me to come back home, doesn't want to go to MC, doesn't want to talk about R. Just doesn't to everything.

Not sure where that leaves me.

My gut tells me it is b/c of OW and that at the least he is infatuated w/her. He says "no" but I don't believe that. I believe he is comparing the 2 of us and I am coming up short b/c she has never had to deal w/or has been exposed to any of the crap that makes up our life 2gether.

He has mentioned us setting up separate checking accounts. I always felt a part of why he didn't push was because of the $. With him saying that I am not so sure now. It would be a struggle for him w/o my $ going into the house.Don't know what to make of that.

I'm really, really confused about everything. If I could talk to someone at MB right now I would but don't have time to make the arrangements. Don't even know if it would be worthy the $ to do that.

I wish I could just turn my feelings and emotions off.

I've made it through today!!!!! Yeah!!!
I'm at the house right now. H should be here in a while. I'm not really sure what to do. I know I've been asked if I'm in Plan A or B and I've been told that I need to get a plan.

I've also been told that if I would back off and act like I don't care he would start coming back around. He still gets angry over OM type stuff. Is that a sign that he still cares or just that I disrespected him in front of others? I don't know.

He is still saying that he wants to go to church w/me tomorrow and plans to confront OM w/me there as well as 3-4 other people from the church who came to him and told him stuff that I was saying and doing. He asked me if I had called the OM to tell him what he planned. I said "No" b/c I haven't. Don't know if I should warn him or not.

I don't know if he will really go through with it or not. He's doing it b/c I confronted him w/OW Sunday. But, no one knows that I did that except him, OW and whomever they told. I didn't do it around anyone and he was w/her; that was his fault not mine.

I really think that part of why I am where I am now is b/c I heard the VMs from the OW about a month ago and started thinking that I might actually be losing him to her. I really think that's part of it and that's sad on my part. There are things about him that I love and admire. There are some good things about him. There's lots of bad, too. But, I've got problems of my own that I need to work on like the lying and the way I dislike his kids, the way I'm too judgemental over some stuff.

I Know I'm just rambling and don't mean to. I guess I need to get through tomorrow night and see what happens. My gut feeling is that he is going to go through with it and then tell me in front of the OM that he wants a divorce. The ultimate slap in the face. He will say bad stuff about me, maybe spill the beans about my past and then walk off and leave me standing there.

L2S...This is a "Payback" he is about to give you, because you happened to see him with OW. I don't think his anger about OM is a sign that he cares, but an excuse to use, to condone HIS actions. He's a scorekeeper, which is pretty sorry for him, beings he has to make stuff up to "confront", in order to get even with you. He has no buisness keeping score, when he's on the losing side! He's now grasping at things, and going out of his way, JUST to justify his actions! He's even going so far as to "One up ya'"! By making a scene...at CHURCH!

L2S...Get your plan in order. I do believe your attraction to him right now, is based on a competitive level. Because someone else is showing interest in him. That is NOT a very solid ground to base a relationship on! Your life is NOT a competition, to see who can win a loser. In the end, he is most defintely NOT a prize!

Go ahead and get that separate checking account, but don't stop there. Start preparing a plan. It's time to regain control.

Keep posting, L2S...We care, here! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

He is definitely all about payback. He holds grudges and is very unforgiving. Oh, he'll say he forgives but, as soon as I make him mad, he brings all the past back up. Now, I must admit I do that too but I do it when he slams me. That doesn't make it right but, I can only take so much before I respond back.

I guess the thing w/the OW that really makes me mad is that she thinks he's all that and a bag of chips. She knows only what he wants her to know which is exactly what I knew when I married him. I later found out that some of what he told me wasn't EXACTLY what others recalled. But, I wasn't exactly honest either. I have a past that I'm ashamed of. I've done some stuff over the last few years that I'm not proud of.

I really don't know why I can't take a long, objective look at what we have (or what we don't have), look at the type person my H is and look at what I will have to deal with, put up with, give up in order to be in his life.

The #1 priority in my H's life is his 20 y/o son. The son has always been a manipulator and user. He has no respect for my H and is around only when he wants/needs something. He knows my H will do whatever he can to help him even when giving in is not in his son's best interest. This isn't just my opinion; same things are felt by everyone close to the situation.

I'm really on the fence about the church thing tonight. I told him Sun night that I wouldn't do it. He then got mad so, stupid me, I relented and said "OK". Now, I want to back track again and tell him "No". Should I allow him to talk to OM w/me there? This is b/c of what I did solely and is payback. Should I allow him to talk to me and OM in front of the others?

Well, long story short, he backed down on going to church and confronting me and OM w/witnesses. Said the reason is b/c he talked to the OW Mon (she asked him to call her and let her know what happened when he got home Sun night) and she told him that he had hurt me enough already.

Not sure I buy all that but I have no way to dispute it. He swears she is just a friend that he could talk to and spend time w/. The part that bothers me is that he has said that she is someone he feels he could have a good relationship with. Don't know if it's true or meant to hurt.

Anyway, he told me to go to church. I said no b/c that would just cause more problems between us. He said he wouldn't get mad and that it didn't matter. So, I asked if he was trying to say that he didn't care what I did. He got mad and said "no" but think what you want. What am I supposed to think? He's cursed me out for months because I went; now that I say I'm not going he almost gets mad.

I just don't get it. I don't know what to do, what to say, what to think. I am really getting down over this whole thing. Life and love shouldn't have to be so complicated. I'm afraid of what I say.

Don't say anything...ACT. Actions speak louder.

As far as OW not knowing everything there is to know about your H, well...LET HER find out! Given enough time, the whole thing will reveal itself. And once she figures it out, hopefully by then, you'll be to the point where you can finally say to yourself, "It's now HER problem, NOT mine."

Actions...L2S, not words. The only thing to be thinking about is your plan. Then the "What to Do's" will follow.

Take care and keep us posted <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />...

Jennifer

You know, maybe there are people who are meant to be together. Maybe given the right set of circumstances my H and someone else could have a picture perfect R and M. His kids are grown as are the OWs. He likes her family. I can bet you though that she hasn't met and/or interacted w/his!!!

But anyway, maybe they could have a good life together. He says too much has happened between the 2 of us for him to get over. He says he forgives me but he can't forget.

I'm willing to work on things and try to move past the issues that have kept us apart. He's not sure. I've done all I can for the past month to do whatever I can to be nice, trying hard not to push or be down around him.

Is this where a plan B would come into play? I would simply "disappear" and see what happens? He told me last night that since we've been separated x 2 years that he has gotten used to being by himself and not having to answer to anyone or have anyone around when he gets home. But, a few weeks ago he was telling me about how lonely he was and how much he wanted someone in his life because he was tired of being by himself all the time. Can't be both so what's the truth? Is he lonely or isn't he? Does he want a R or doesn't he? Is he fancying himself in love w/OW or isn't he?

I dont' know.

Yes...this is where plan B comes into play, at least. You're trying to hard to read between the lines. It's now time to speak with your actions. Plan B would be a very loud action, in a silent way. And you might even find that you'd LIKE plan B. Much more peaceful, and some space to think.

Pulling you back to the top...

Boy, L2S, this is becoming a challenge to keep you in the loop, here! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Good morning all. I'm still here. This week pretty uneventful. Still not in a defined plan yet. I'm trying to remain upbeat and not be clingy.

You know, I was thinking back on the first A and I probably broke every MB rule in the book!! I cried, I begged, I moped, I did all sorts of stuff I shouldn't have done. But, I also did everything I could to be close to him, nice to him, do little things for him to show that I loved him. It worked out in the end but the A was over before I found out and he was trying to break it off but she kept persisting. Even after all this time she still called him last year.

Now, I have a situation where supposedly the OW is a "shoulder to cry on" and nothing but platonic. But, H has said he thinks there could be. According to him OW says "no" until he is divorced at least 8 months plus OW has stuff in her life that she needs to work through before she adds a relationship to the mix.

I was listening to some VMs left by my H to me in late December where he was telling me how very much he loved me and wanted us to work things out. Then, one month later he suddenly wasn't sure what he wanted. Now, he says one day at a time and we'll see where it leads but he doesn't want me to come home and pushing will result in D. That all has me pretty confused.

OW said she would not call my H and would not accept his calls but, H said OW called him yesterday to find out what kind of nut I am b/c of me finding/confronting them last Sunday. Asked my H if he thought I would come to her house, involve her kids, her parents, etc. I didn't involve her, she involved herself. I simply said "no" and left it at that. I didn't get into an argument or conversation about it. What I WANTED to say was that b/c she is a counselor of sorts and has access to MCs perhaps she should lay out the circumstances to one of them. If the situation was reversed would she think something was going on between OW and her H. But, I didn't.

I'd rather let her think she is dealing w/a nut that might "strike" at any time. It's funny though. Last Sunday when my H said something about me riding by her house and he was there, she asked why I didn't stop and come in? Yeah, right. I'm sure she would have handled the sitch in such a way. Wonder why she is divorced if she's all that?

Oh, well. Another weekend in limbo land. Not divorced. Not married. Have no home. I just don't know. I've read things here about a 180 plan. I wonder if it's in the book Surviving an Affair. I need to get that and read it. Might try today.

I'm glad you posted, L2S, and I hope you are doing ok. The book might be a good idea. I haven't read it, but I think it would be good for you to know that you can survive the A, with or without your M.

Take Care...

Jennifer

Bought three books today: Surviving An Affair, Love Must be Tough, His Needs Her Needs. Guess it will be good knowledge regardless of our outcome.

Saw H couple of times today. Spoke to H several times by phone. H is pretty down today. Apparently nothing in his life is going right. Trouble w/me. Work is very demanding and not going well. Lots of errors on jobs by our employees. His son is putting a lot of pressure on him to finance stuff for him or do a quick loan of a lot of $, etc. His daughter is involved w/a guy that has kids and is possibly moving back to a state in the north; she doesn't know what to do; stay here or go w/. Also, H says she is sick but won't elaborate on what's wrong. He has some health issues that cause almost constant pain.

He has lost his confidant in the OW b/c of me. Don't know if they were just friends but, in any event, it was inappropriate at best just like the friendship I had was now that I look back on it. I never allowed the friendship to go anywhere but, the first time my H said anything about it, that should have been the last time I spoke to OM w/o him there but I didn't do that.

I asked him today what he wants to do. He said he wants to move forward with D. Says he loves me but there is a lot that we both have to get past. Doesn't trust me. I don't trust him. I can't handle his kids. He can't handle stuff I allow my D to do/get away w/.

Then, he said he thought the best thing might be for me to move back into our house. That will give us the chance to see if we can make it. Let us see if continuing w/the M is what we both want. Might make us see that we really don't want to be M to each other anymore.

So, today was not great. I told him to let me know what it is he wants me to do. I asked him if he wanted me to back off and leave him alone until he decided what he wanted. He said that he didn't. So, I don't really know what I'm supposed to do.

Talked to him late last night. He was still pretty down. Said he was at male friend's house but for a period of time he wouldn't answer cell phone or respond to text messages. He lives w/his cell phone by his side so that makes me suspicious. I could call the friend to check up on him but not sure if I should or if I want to know.

Says he is going to OWs parents' home today to do some stuff for stepdad. That really hurts b/c he knows how I feel. His feeling is that they have done nothing wrong, he likes them. According to him, they told him that I could come around if I didn't cause trouble. H says OW told them that I rode by their house last Sun and then followed/confronted them. I don't know if that actually happened or not. H says a lot of stuff that I can't really check out w/o making things worse.

I am praying that God will open his eyes/heart or that he will definitively open mine and give me direction. I hate the place I'm in right now but I also don't know which way to go: try to hang on or give up and move forward w/divorce. I know that I have biblical reason for D but this site is all about reconciling and getting past the hurt.

All who read this and believe in the power of prayer, please pray for me when you think about it. I need it desperately.

I didn't call my H this morning. He called me. Said he was either going to OWs parents' house or to his daughter's. Later this morning, told me he was going to his daughter's. He kept calling me little pet names that meant so much at one point. (It really hurts that he would still go there w/o me, knowing that I will be wondering if OW is there, etc.) But, that was the same thing he did after first A. He would still go to his sister's where A started and I was not asked to go.

Paged me earlier and told me he loved me.

I went to church this morning; same church that OW goes to. He told me to tell her he said "hello" if I saw her. I said "Are you serious"? He laughed, said no and acted like he got mad.

Told me this morning that the guy his daughter is dating/living with doesn't make much $ and he wants to buy a truck that the guy can use to do over-the-road trucking to make more $(probably 20-30K to buy). Not sure if this was my H's idea, my SD's idea, etc. Asked me how I felt about it. I told him that I don't know the guy; I've never met him. I don't know anything at all about the situation. Can't make such a decision. Acted like he got mad.

There's no way he can buy the truck and be able to pay me what I will be owed if we D. Not sure if this is a game to be able to use my $ to do this for SD or what.

I want so desperately to make a good decision over this. I'm beginning to make my family mad b/c I can't decide on what to do.

Hello, L2S. I just prayed about this. I prayed for God's will to take place in this situation, and to give you the strength to follow His will, in whatever direction it takes.

I also prayed for your H. That God would somehow touch him, as well. That however this turns out, he would do right by you and God , whether it means staying or going.

I hope you are doing well, today! God Bless...

Jennifer

Thanks!!! Above all, I want to do whatever is in God's will. I never want anyone who has read my posts to come away thinking I was/am a saint that has never done anything wrong. That would be very untrue.

I wear my feelings on my sleeve and have been accused of "pouting" when things don't go my way - probably true.

I need to learn to be more tolerant of others. I need to be less judgmental over what others do. I can ususally do that better when those people aren't affecting my life as is the case with my stepkids.

I need to learn to speak my mind more often rather than saying "that's okay" when I really mean "no".

There is a part of me that believes that the best thing would be for us to divorce. He could meet someone new (or continue with OW or 2nd EXW) that he doesn't have such a bad history with. His kids are now grown but definitely not on their own financially; almost 20 and 21 1/2. They still look to him to bail them out. Guess that's what kids do sometimes but he needs to start looking at what he's going to do for retirement. He has bad health problems that could (God forbid) leave him disabled. He has not saved any $ for retirement since he lost his job in '99. I worry that they will suck him dry of all extra resources and then he will be destitute and unable to work and they will be on their merry way.

There's comfort in a R w/him b/c he knows my past. Yeah, he uses it against me but, I would have to go through all that again w/someone new. We basically enjoy the same things and have roughly the same goals. Mine are more future oriented than his though. He's more for the moment and not waiting for the big stuff. I'm more for working on getting the house I'll retire in and then I want to have the $ to travel and have fun being retired. Don't want to have to work until I'm almost 70!! When I retire I want to be young enough to be able to enjoy it.

If we do get divorced, I will have a hard time finding someone that I could open up to about my past; afraid of a similar reaction as my H had.

Maybe someone w/a better past than mine is what he needs. I have a bad R w/his kids. Not all my fault but it exists just the same.

I really want my life to be settled. I surely don't want to continue as I have been in this limbo land. Not married, not divorced. No true home that I can call my own.

I'm really tired and want to move in one direction or the other. Now he says if I have to know now, we need to move forward with D. So, now I tread lightly so as not to push him.

Oh, well.

First off, L2S, NONE of us are saints. Infact we are ALL sinners. As far as being judgemental, I think that comment is over-rated and used to loosely! If whatever is going on is part of YOUR life, you have EVERY reason in the world to "judge", in order to decide if you want it to be a part of your life or not. It's called "Using your best Judgement". You can't change it, just not be a part of it.

Even though you would have to go thru the sharing your past with someone new, it sure would be nice to have someone who wouldn't use it against you, every time something doesn't go his way. This would be one of the specail traits of someone new, to love you for who you ARE and not who you WERE.

It seems your H has a more difficult time with your past than anyone. And unless you've murdered someone, I can't imagine what would be SOOO awful, that you feel the need to stay this guy! Whatever your past is, is between you and GOD! And He is the only one you should have to answer to!

He is using the D card, in order to keep things the way they are. Because it works, (for him).

L2S...you mentioned that you asked him if you needed to back off, to give him the chance to decide what he wants, and he said, "No". If you were to back off and give him space, it shouldn't be because you asked him if it is what HE wants, it should because it would be something YOU need to do. You base too many decisions on his thoughts, opinions and reactions. Your're leaving the decision making up to him. When it's YOU who should make a decision concerning YOUR life! If you continue to leave things up to him, you will continue to live in limbo, like you have been for so long, now. He's not in the right frame of mind, to be making any decisions concerning the rest of YOUR life.

You said you prefer to make long term goals, concerning your future. This is one of those decisions that should be included in your long term goals. Because this situation plays a role, and will effect your long term goals.

Anyway, L2S, just know that we are here and willing to listen. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Take Care...Jennifer

PS...any progress in coming up with a plan? Whether this works out or not, you still need a plan. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> God Bless...

Jennifer,

Loved your post! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just what she needed to hear. Hard to swallow but if she does, it will really help her.

Mahalo,
L.

We can only pray, Orchid! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

By judgmental, I'm talking mainly about stuff that his kids have done. I have a past that I'm not proud of and I have often discovered things they were trying to do and stopped it or at least let my H know so he could stop them. Felt that they were making mistakes so I tried hard to steer them in other directions. I never was really allowed to have any say even though they lived w/us and I helped support them $. My point was that I knew the kinds of stuff kids get into and I was determined not to have them go thru some of what I did.

I often told my SD that you need to make wise choices so you won't look back w/shame on your past. I was simply speaking from experience. I didn't/don't want them to go through what I have.

I guess what I'm saying is that I am not as compassionate about other people and the mistakes they've made as I should be given the mistakes I've made.

Yes, my past is between me and God. He has forgiven me for my past. I don't need my H's forgiveness for something that a) I can't undo and b) something that I did before I ever knew him. I do need his forgiveness for lying to him about it. In that I was very wrong.

As for the D card, what he has said is that for the last 2 years, I had to have things my way. I would not work on the M. I would not come home. I could not see the changes he had made b/c I wasn't home to see them. There was no reason for him to change b/c I wasn't there to see the changes. And on and on and on.

Now, he says (and this is my reading between the lines) it's his turn. I've had it my way for 2 years. Now, granted that two years has seen a lot happen. He has been incredibly nasty, he resumed R w/his 2nd EXW just to hurt me. He now has OW "friend" and has lied about that. But, I believe he feels justified in saying I must wait or we must go forward w/D.

A part of me wants to say "OK", D is it. Yet, I hesitate. A couple of days ago I replayed some voicemails he left me in late Dec/early Jan. He was telling me how much he loved me and wanted me in his life. How much he was willing to do to make it work. Now, he says he's not sure. I keep asking him what has changed and he can't really answer that question. He just says that he kept telling me that I was pushing him away.

As for a plan, no, I don't have one. I'm reading the three books I bought yesterday. Started w/Surviving an A.

I have not tried to call him all day. He called me a few minutes ago and said he would call again when he got home. Guess he went to SD's like he said but I didn't ask. Don't want to know.

Oh well. I will post later. Thanks to you and Orchid for hanging w/me. God bless you both.

Love shouldn't be about keeping score or revenge. You say you need his forgiveness, which means you are sorry. Is he? Has he said he needs your forgiveness? Has he been beating himself up for his mistakes, as you've been doing? Is he going out of his way to prove to you, the way you are trying to prove yourself to him? Is he showing you, with his actions, and his respect for you and the marriage, that he wants to wipe the slate clean, stand up for what's right, and start over, fresh? Do his "changes" matter, right now, with all the damage that has been done, including physical abuse?

I'm sorry L2S...I don't mean to add to your pain. I am just REALLY concerned for your emotional and physical well-being. Which ever way this goes, this situation needs a break of some kind. Think of the plan, and follow thru with it.

I'll keep praying on this, L2S <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />...Take Care,

Jennifer

He has asked for my forgiveness many times but, it has always been followed by some nastiness when things didn't go his way. We've been separated x 2 years. The M was bad even before that. We've both done things that did not help to repair the M.

There have been times that he has said he wanted to start over, wanted me to come home and wanted us to work on putting things back together. But, there were still issues that I felt needed to be resolved before we took that step. I still believe that we need counseling first. I'm willing to do that. He isn't. I don't know what he would say/do if tomorrow I said we need to either start counseling or start divorce proceedings.

Yesterday he said he thought it was best to get a divorce and then down the road see what happens. I know that if we get a D we will never get back together. I don't know why he would even think that was a possibility. If we can't fix it now, there would be no hope after it's all over with. Plus, his kids play a huge part in this in them trying to manipulate the situation and telling him that they don't want me around.

No, he isn't really trying to prove anything at this point except that he doesn't want to try; just wants things his way. Keeps saying it was all about me the last two years. Perhaps there's some truth in that but, the things he did while we were separated has made it very difficult to want to work things out. I'm at the point though that I beliewe we need to give it one final chance. If we can't make it work then we need to end it.

I simply hate the thought of starting over and being on my own alone again. I know that's really where I am now and I know that's no reason to keep this going. It's simply my frame of mind at this point. There are things that I love about him and could be building blocks to a good marriage. We've both made mistakes.

Thanks for the prayers.

Ok, L2S...

I'm going to ask you a serious question and I want an honest answer. This is in NO way, meant to cause anymore hurtfulness.

L2S, tell me, if your daughter was in this very situation, with the exact same circumstances, and she asked you what she should do, what would be your answer?

Again, this is not intended to be hurtful, I am just curious.

You're questions don't hurt me. That's the same one I've asked myself a thousand times as have others.

My answer:


LEAVE

I'm just having a hard time letting go.

I know it's easier said than done, L2S, believe me, I DO know this.

It sounds like your mind knows what to do, but your heart has to catch up.

L2S, you are just as valuable of a person as your daughter or anyone else is, and you deserve the happiness and peace in your life as ANY person does.

Letting go is very difficult, and yes, it hurts. But it's no more hurtful than what you're already going thru. Just different. I guess sometimes, we have to choose our pain, and decide which one is worth the time to go thru, and what the long term effects would be on our future.

I'm still praying...

Jennifer

Back to the top...

I'm back. I'm confused.

I have all but begged my H to allow me to come back home. He was adamant that he did not want that and if I kept pushing his answer would be D.

I went to church Sunday. Found out by snooping and asking question and then him admitting that he went to OWs house Sunday, went to SDs, and went to OW's parent's house. Supposedly someone did some stuff at OWs house that appeared to be malicious like moving flower pots, locking garage door from outside, etc. OW told her mother who asked my H if he did it. (Now, I'm getting all this from my H so who knows that truth or if there is any in any of this). She asked my H if he thought I would do that. Said he said no.

OW has said she would not take his calls. He tried multiple times to call her but she wouldn't answer so he went to her house. She wasn't there. She eventually returned his call and they talked by phone. Then, he went to her parents' house and helped her stepdad do some stuff.

After I found that out on Sunday, it kind of hit me and I suddenly felt less desperate about calling him, text messaging him, being w/him, etc. I've really been praying and church on Sunday was wonderful.

I don't know why I suddenly felt less desperate. Well, suddenly now my H is calling me little pet names again, leaving me VMs, and today, he asked me if I still wanted to see a counselor. I said yes. He asked a few minutes ago if I wanted to come back home.

Now, I'm thinking "wait a minute". Now I'm not so sure that going back w/o some discussion of our problems is a good idea. But, now he thinks I've just been playing games and now I'm backpeddling b/c I said maybe counseling first to see if we can work through what are some major issues.

I made him mad and he immediately starting getting loud and cursing.

So, is God giving me peace and making me think "wait a minute", or was I pushing so hard to get him to let me come back b/c I was afraid there was someone else interested or what??? I'm really confusing myself w/all this. When I read all that everyone posts here and I read Surviving an Affair (finished today)and I think of the power of God I believe that anything is possible.

I guess I don't understand what has happened to make him suddenly say "come home". He doesn't understand what has given me a change of heart (and I don't either).

More than anything I want to do what is best for me and my D. I hear all the statistics about girls w/o fathers and what that does to them emotionally and I think what a horrible thing I've done to her. Should I try to make it work and help to repair the relationship between her and my H or finish it off and put our life together and go on?

I really do believe at a minimum a couple of counseling sessions would be the right way to go. I told him earlier that I didn't deserve the cursing and that I won't listen to that anymore. He finally calmed down.

Wow, L2S. Sounds like God might be trying to reach you, by you suddenly feeling, "Not so desperate". This is a good sign.

Don't go back to his home, just because he suddenly gave you a green light. You know that light will again, turn yellow, then RED. He "feels" for the moment, not for the long haul. He's not finished with his present tense, yet.

Even if you were to go back, he still has his strings attached elsewhere. And you would have to accept the situation, as it is, now. You'll be going in with your eyes wide open.

Whichever way it turns out, counseling would be a good idea. It would be good for your D, too. She's probably just as confused as you are.

The fact that he got mad at you, for expressing your opinion on what might be best, and the "back-pedaling" thing, he is in NO position to be pointing a finger at you, where THAT is concerned, the way he has been going so back and forth with his actions!

Keep going to church, and keep praying about this. God has a plan for you L2S, (and I don't think it involves abuse) you just have to keep your heart and mind open to whatever that plan may be. Which seems like this is beginning to happen. It sounds like the light in you, might be starting to come on! AMEN! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

PS...If he can't understand why your "sudden" change of heart, tell him to ask is OW, since she's a "counselor". I'm sure she could spell it out, in her own, special way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, right!!!!
You've got to tell me how to do the smiley faces. I still can't figure that out.

Anyway, we've been talking this evening. He seems to think that too much has happened for us to put things back together regardless how we feel that we want to. He doesn't trust me, I don't trust him. He doesn't believe me when I say there was no contact outside church w/OM and there were never any phone calls, emails, VM, etc. No contact period.

I on the other hand know that he has talked w/OW for hours at all times of day, night. Been to her house. Has been to her parents' home multiple times. Told me lies or half truths about that whole situation. I know also that he is still talking to 2nd EXW and I read letters from her saying that she hoped we divorced so she could have a second chance.

I believe the best thing would be for us to stay apart but go to counseling and see if it is possible to work through some of our biggest issues like his nastiness and my problem w/lying. That's a big issue and one that I need to work on regardless of marriage outcome. I hate that part of myself. Also have issues related to kids. He needs to start working on retirement and let his kids manage their own lives. Wouldn't let them starve or be homeless but the other stuff should be on them.

Oh well. He should be calling back soon. I think it really hurts most just to think that he wouldn't be in my life anymore and vice versa. Maybe that's just the comfort part and not really thinking through just what I have when he's in my life. I truly do love him but the magic of the relationship is long gone. You know, the part of the relationship that makes you feel loved, protected, special. I want him to be my soft place to land and the place I can run to when no one else can help. But, that's gone (or at least for now.)

Well, L2S, you just do what you know is the right thing. And hold on to that "not so desperate" feeling. Because you do not have to be desperate, to be treated decently! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

PS...When you type your post in the first window, then right below there, it says, "I want to preview my post". Put the checkmark in that box, then click "Continue". It'll show your post at the top of the page. Just scroll to the bottom of the page, and there's a window for editing your post. Right below that window, are the smiley faces. Click on whatever one you want, right where you want it in the post. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Seee? Easy as that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

I don't want to be desperate. I don't want to make yet another mistake. I don't want to hurt him, me or my D. I want my life back w or w/o him. I really want my own place again and to be able to be "me" again.

I truly do love him. I don't respect him and I don't trust him but I love/care deeply for him. I really would like things to work out but I really want to move toward a resolution one way or the other.

Above all, I very much want whatever we do to be in God's will. I know that we both have to change in order for that to happen. We both have to forgive and to let go of past mistakes.

I told him earlier that counseling has got to be the first step. We cannot discuss/resolve anything. If we could, we wouldn't be where we are now. We cannot talk about anything of any importance without arguing. Actually, he pushes and bullies and curses. I pout and mope around. It's not a great way to live.

Well, L2S, I hope your anwers come soon. It's truly difficult to be in your position. I do remember how that feels.

I still loved my X, when I left. I just didn't love what he was doing. I had to learn how to separate the two. How I felt about him, had nothing to do with his actions, or how we were living.

Eventually, the loss of respect, made it easier for me to leave. I had to learn how to respect myself, in order to move on, and live a pain-free life. I never would of had that opportunity, had I stayed.

As odd as it may sound, we are now friends, because we actually can be. He respects me now. And I respect the fact that he has made some huge changes in his life. That is good for himself and the sake of the kids. But we make way better friends than we did as a married couple.

My feelings for him has greatly faded. I now just care, like I would a friend, but that is it.

Anyway, we all handle our situations the way we see fit. And eventually, you will just know, what you need to do.

Take care...Jennifer

I think the letting go is the hardest. We talked about a lot of stuff last night. I think for both of us the thought of the other not being there, not being accessible is really hard. It's also really, really sad.

In so many ways my H is a really good person. I know, that doesn't negate the stuff he's done. The old saying you always hurt the ones that love you most is probably true. I've never been so hurt in all my life than by some of the stuff he says/does.

He asked last night about me coming back home and when I said maybe we need 1-2 counseling sessions first, I told you he went nuts. Now, he's still saying I'm backpedaling. Says that now that he's asking me to do what I say I've been wanting to do, I suddenly don't want to. Maybe there's some element of truth in that.

I believe that counseling is going to help us be able to talk. Right now we can't really talk about anything that means anything. Our problems are much too big not to be able to talk about/through them.

I'm going out of town for work this weekend and he may be going w/me. I know I will be wondering what he will be doing if he doesn't go. He's still doing a couple of things that if I had done them (or did them now) he would be accusing me of all sorts of stuff. He's in an awful mood right now w/our business. He's really frustrated w/everything and nothing is going right. He is taking a lot of it out on me and that really makes me mad and hurts. His darling son is acting like his normal jerky self and that's making him mad.

I really think God is trying to get his attention. Absolutely nothing is going right. We have more business coming our way than he can manage; that is going great. But, he doesn't have the support to get all done. He's running around like crazy taking care of stuff that the employees should be doing. Everything is building and I think he's about ready to blow. That makes it harder on me 'cause he gets very short and snappy. Starts acting like a jerk quickly.

Oh well. Just going to take one day at a time and see what happens.

I talked to a counselor today; said he's a Christian counselor who believes in marriage. I asked him about some of the books from the Harleys. Don't think he's read them. Said he is hardest on men. That probably won't sit well w/my husband. It didn't last time we went to a counselor who counsels biblically. I asked him if he ever recommended divorce. He said he didn't. I need to ask him more when I make the appt. I guess I want to know that he doesn't recommend that a couple stay together regardless of the circumstances.

I guess I want someone like what I believe I've read here about the Harleys who will say it's time to hang it up if there really doesn't seem to be a way to put the marriage back together.

Oh well, I'm rambling. Thanks.

You're right about the difficulty of letting go. And yes, it is very sad, I'd say pretty equivelent to mourning a death. And in a sense, it is a death. We mourn it, heal, and move on with life. Other sources of happiness, joy and peace come along.

Like I said before, I think counseling is a great idea, no matter which way this situation turns. You'll need it whether you stay or not.

Make sure you find one you're comfortable with. A christian one is a good idea, but there should be an understanding that there are biblical grounds, should you decide to leave and lines that should be drawn where abuse is concerned. The WHOLE picutre has to be drawn out, not just the emotional parts, or the parts that weigh the heaviest on your mind.

Anyway, just let God work, as He has, and you will know your answers.

Good luck, and I hope your trip goes well, this weekend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

Oh, and I think you should check out "UnMoved"'s thread. It is very inspirational, and easy to relate to! It's worth a look! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

L2S, how ya'doing, today? Good, I hope... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm doing okay. I'm at work (Sat AM). He didn't come w/me. Had some work to do. May join me later today. I talked w/the counselor again. We have a tentative appt for next week. Need to confirm w/H.

I will look at the thread you mentioned. Will reply soon.

Ok, L2S. We'll look to hear from you, soon. Take Care...Jennifer

Still at work. Hit a lull. H has decided he's not going to come where I am this weekend. He's being pretty nice so far. We'll see how that turns out.

Told him about MC. He's fine w/it. Not sure how he'll react when we get there. Like I said before. He's still doing some out of character things that I find questionable. Things that if I did he would be screaming at me.

I just don't know. I did go back and read the posts by Unmoved. Yeah, does sound familiar.

Sometimes I think I would be better off just by myself. After my dad died (my mom was only mid40s) she never dated, much less remarried. She seemed very content w/her life. Maybe she got lonely; I'm sure she did. But, she never mentioned it. She was always so upbeat and full of life.

I would very much like to share my life w/someone. I want to travel and love and live life. I had always hoped it would be w/my H. Who knows what God has in store.

For me, I found that "lonliness" turned out to be my best friend. At the point I was, it was very welcomed.

It's hard to know what God has in store, but we just have to have faith, and know, that whatever it is, will be something we have never imagined! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hang in there...

There seems to be a new threat, a new twist to my story every day. My SD announced to my H this morning that she is moving several states away w/a man she had been dating/living with (this happened almost immediately) for about 3 months. He is the SS of her aunt (mother's side). So, in typical fashion, my H is doing the "would of, could of, should ofs" right now.

He's very upset. She's upset and not sure what she should do. He's upset b/c he feels in his gut that she will go. He will miss her. She won't be in his life, etc, etc.

I have a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that I will be blamed for this too. Somehow, someway I will hear" I guess you're glad now; she's gone". She's 21 and has done what she wanted to do/when she wanted to do it for 4 years now. But, I know that I know that I will get the blame for her decision or at least I'll hear the "bet your glad" sermon.

I feel sorry for him. NOthing is going right. It's not all my fault. A lot of it is his. His kids are making bad decisions and it always seems to turn around on me.

Oh, well. I will see/talk to him later this evening. Will post more later.

Well, L2S, it sounds like you're prepared for whatever reaction comes your way. The fact that you already know this, says alot. You are aware of how things are with your H, and what has not changed.

I'm sorry for this twist in your situation. And I hope you do not get that reaction that you are expecting. It would be nice if you could be leaned on for comfort and support, but it sounds like you're ready for the outcome, either way. Be STRONG!

I'll say a prayer about this, and wait for your update on this!

(((L2S)))

Jennifer

L2S...Are you around? You ok?

Ok, L2S, I'm beginnig to worry, here! Are you out there?

I'm still here. Life incredibly hectic.

Update..
We went to counseling (this was his suggestion) this past Tuesday. Christian MC. Talked to us together and separately. Said he would not pressure us to come back; our decision. If we do he will divide the session in half and talk to us individually and try to work on our many issues: trust, infidelity, kids, etc. Said that we've got a lot of problems to sort through but that God does work miracles but also that we have a free will and it will be us doing the work if we put it back together.

H told me today that he called the OW and told her that he would not be contacting her again. H said OW said that she was starting to develop feelings for him. But, H said that she had been dating others. Said that b/c she had dated others since they started talking he doesn't know if he could handle thinking that they may have touched, kissed, sex, etc.

Maybe you're thinking what I'm thinking. I thought she was just a good friend. So, I don't know what's going on there. I have seen the latest cell phone bill and he has continued to talk to her but was telling me he wasn't. He doesn't know I've seen it but I told him today that I wanted to see it. He said okay. Funny, it was in the mailbox today. He has also continued talking w/his 2nd EXW, the one that wanted us to divorce so she could have another shot at him.

I asked him if he thought he would just prefer to go for D and start over w/OW. That's when he said what I wrote above. He is really frustrated w/everything right now. Me, work, kids, just life in general. I know that the reason everything is bad is in part because he isn't where he needs to be w/God.

Also, he his son is really giving him a hard time. Wants more money, more money, etc. Keeps pushing him to pay him more (he works in our business), make loans to him, sign for stuff for him. It is never ending. And, when that's going on my H is a jerk. Told him today that the stuff going on now is the biggest reason why I don't want SS in the company. Told him that the difference between SS and other employees is that when they act out it makes him mad. When SS acts out, it hurts him b/c he loves him.

He said he's willing to go to counseling again. He still maintains though that he thinks too much might have gone on for us to get past; interpretation is too much for him to get past. I got past the first A, I would have to put behind me the resumption of R w/his 2nd EXW plus this whole other life he's started w/OW and her parents but H's got too much to get past. Really!!!

He is really down and says he just wants to walk away from everyone and everything. Just wants to "go". This is the same way he has done in the past right before he starts the suicide stuff.

So, no resolution for anything. Still hanging on and wondering why. I really, really want my life back. My life and daughter's has been in total turmoil for 2 years. We don't have a home. I'm constantly on the road to get her to school, go to sister's, pick her up from school, help w/work at our house, etc. I'm really drained too.

I really wish my H would just let his kids go. By that I mean quit allowing them to make their responsibilities his. That's the big thing right now. My SS now has 2 kids and one stay-at-home g/f to take care of. He has at least 3 payments plus 2 cellphones and living expenses. So, he just pushes my H and tries to make my H responsible. If my H would just back off, he would be a lot better off.

I've really been praying that God will show me the way. I know you all are probably thinking "how many times does he need to".

L2S...

I'm just happy to see you here, again! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I was really becoming concerned if you were ok.

I'm not going to push my opinions on you, I just want you to know that God is with you, and WILL show you the way, if you allow Him to.

I'm sorry that you still in limbo, here. I really do pray for the peace and contentment that you have been missing for so long.

Thankyou for posting with your update! And please, keep us posted.

Jennifer

I'm still out there somewhere.

On my way home last night H called and asked if I had seen what I wanted to see on the cell phone bill. I told him that I saw that he had been talking to OW and 2nd EXW a lot more than what he said. He then said "Do we just need to get a D?" I said why? Just b/c I looked at the cell phone bill? He said no but b/c he didn't think he could make me happy. I asked him if he wanted to make me happy and he said yes.

I told him it was his decision. I can't force him to do anything. Again, everywhere he turns there's conflict and I believe that's God. He has no peace anywhere: work, kids, home, friends.

Anyway, the same stuff continues. I will see what the weekend holds. We've made no plans. I want to see what he plans to do. And, then there's Sunday. My family is really pushing me on church. I don't know what to do. I want to go to my church but don't want to add fuel to the fire. If I don't, I'll go to other church I've been to last couple of Sundays.

Please continue to pray for God's guidance for me. I am probably one of those people that needs God to write it on the wall before I get it.

Have a great day and weekend. Thanks for hanging in there w/me.

Hope you have a great weekend, too! I'll continue to pray about this. And let us know how it is going! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Take Care...Jennifer

My H has given me so much grief over going to my church. You know all the stuff he's done; cursing, threatening to come there and confront guy, lurking in the parking lot, etc.

Well, a few weeks ago he started saying it really didn't matter. Now, today, he said I should go back to church there. I've been going Sunday mornings to another church but can't work out same for Wed night service. Anyway, now he says that I need to prove to myself that I can go but have no contact with OM. I've gone for months on end w/not talking to or seeing OM except across a crowded room. I don't have anything to prove to myself.

So, I don't know how to intrepret this. I want to be in church w/my D. I have asked him about going to church. He says that he is going to be in church but he never goes. Now this.

So, do I say "okay" and just go to church? He made the comment that people would come back and tell him if I talked to OM. But, he can still talk to OW and 2nd EXW as evidenced by last cell phone bill. I don't want to get into the tit for tat kind of thing but he is dictating what I can and can't do while he does what he pleases.

I miss being in church consistently. My D is now giving me grief over missing but that's probably in part b/c my family is doing the same thing. I haven't told them why I'm not going. Don't know if they know why or not. I just am sick of talking about it all and just avoid it if I can.

Anyway, what do I do? Just start going back to my church and see what happens? I know that I do not want him to have any future contact with OW or 2nd EXW and that's what I would say if the situation came up.

Now, I don't know if he's just stringing me along for insurance and money or what.

Advice, please.

Hi, L2S.

I don't understand is comment about you "proving" anything to yourself, when he can't do the same. It's almost like he WANTS you to have contact with the OM, so he can justify his contact with OW and 2ndXW.

I think you should be able to continue the church of your choice, without those ridiculous stipulations hanging over your head.

And if your D is wanting to go, then by all means, encourage that and take her. Because she will reach the stage, where she will not ask anymore, and the meaning of attending won't mean as much to her, as it once did. I think right now, she is viewing church as a positive part of her life, and she needs that.

Again, this is just my take. And I always wish the best for you and your D.

My D is going with my family. I'm making sure of that. I'm just not going which isn't a good thing for many reasons.

Maybe you're right. Maybe he's encouraging me so he has an excuse. I've even asked him to go w/me. He won't. Like I said he keeps saying that he is going to get back in church but he doesn't. He has the opportunity every Sunday but always comes up w/something else that he needs/wants to do.

I truly believe that he is experiencing so many problems b/c he isn't where he needs to be w/God. That's the biggest part of our problem.

He told me his son is planning to leave the company AGAIN. Wants to start a business of his own and has spent about $10K dollars (all on credit) for equipment (lawncare). Has no customers but is continually piling on the debt. My H told me that my SS said he knew that I didn't want him in the company and that's one reason he's leaving. I told my H that at some point maybe he will grow up and stop using me as an excuse. My H said that he told my SS the same thing. Don't know if he did or not. Using me as an excuse has always gotten him mileage before. Always worked to his advantage. You know, if something works, why change.

Well, I'm not really sure about the church thing. I don't want to do anything to make matters worse but I miss being in church and in church w/my family. I just don't know what the game is.

You need to make the decision based on your own judgements, not his. And let him know, that your reason for going to church, is NOT to meet men, but to strengthen your relationship with God. Something we ALL need to to. You can't make the decision for him to go, but you can for yourself. And I think you should.

I'm sorry, I know this is a bad spot for you to be in. Just hang in there, and trust God.

Jennifer

I really don't know what's going on and don't really know what I should do next.

I haven't been to my church since 1/22/06. I've been a couple of Sun mornings to another church. The problem is that my H has given me so much grief over going b/c of guy he thinks is OM. There wasn't a R there but he thinks there was b/c I talked to OM (divorced guy). Anyway, now he says I should go to church b/c that's where I want to be. Says if I can't go w/o talking to guy that I myself need to know that. That I need to know if I have unresolved feelings for this guy.

I feel that if I go to my church he will use that as an excuse to talk to OW or 2ndEXW.

We went to MC last week and have appt for this week. He knows how I feel about church but will not go to any other church w/me. I've even asked him to come to my church w/me and he won't. He keeps saying that he is going to get back into church (he stopped going about 3 years ago and we met while both in church) but he makes no move toward that. I don't know if he has gone so far so long w/o being in church that he doesn't care to or what.

Every Sunday he makes plans to do stuff w/everyone but me and my D. Today he is going to the OWs parents' home. She is supposed to not be there. He asked me if I was going to go there and make a scene. Told him "no". I could easily ride over there but I still wouldn't know if she was there or not. The story from my H is that the OWs mother told her that she thought she was starting to develop feelings for my H. OW told her mother "no". But, later she told my H that she was.

The OWs parents think I'm a nut b/c I found out where they live and went there to find H. They don't know the whole story and all the lies my H told about that whole situation. Asked him today if I would always be barred from there or if at some point he would stop going. He said I could go now but that he thought it best to let things blow over.

Problem is I don't know what is truth and what is a lie regarding anything he says they or the OW have said or done. They could be totally in the dark about the whole thing and I wouldn't know.

He keeps telling me he loves me and is willing to go to counseling but, we spend no time together. Saturday and Sunday he plans stuff w/his kids or to go to OWs parents, etc. Never says anything about us doing anything together.

His cousin has told me that maybe he is keeping me hanging on b/c of insurance on himself and his D. He told me a couple of weeks ago that his D is sick (not lifethreatening) and will need medications and medical care for some time to come. She is on my insurance.

Also, my H could not make it (in current lifestyle) on the $ he makes from company. He relies heavily on my income.

Just got off phone w/him. We've talked several times this morning. It's almost like he keeps calling just to make sure I haven't gone to church. We just got into an argument over OM. No reason for it. It's almost like he wants to get mad so he can be "justified" in talking to OW.

I told him that nothing that he had ever done truly justified me talking to OM. I never had a R w/him but talking to him was wrong b/c my H objected. I also told him that nothing that I had done justified him talking to OW or his EXW. Told him that he could rationalize it all day long but it was wrong and he knows it.

He immediately started getting mad saying maybe I could see OM today when I went to lunch w/family after church. Maybe he would be wherever they went. Then, said he had to go b/c talking about it was making him mad. Told him I understood; makes me mad too to think of all the lies he has told me. He said all that was my fault. Sorry, I'm not taking the blame anymore.

I did feel that his first A was all my fault. Now I know differently. I didn't do anything to justify or cause what he did.

Basically he was trying to push my buttons but I wasn't listening. I can do the tit for tat stuff all day long.

Anyway, I don't really know where we are or what's going on. He's willing to go to counseling and stay married but spends no scheduled time w/me. I'm there every day picking up D after school and doing company work but, we don't go anywhere together that is planned like out to eat (except w/his cousin) or to church or stuff like that.

What does anyone else think about this? If you need more specifics, I can provide. I'm just wondering what on earth is going on and am I being incredibly stupid for not going to plan D.

L2S,

First, let me tell you, it won't matter whether you go to your own church, and speak to OM or not, your H will continue to be in contact with OW and XW2. He's just trying to find a way to validate it.

And if he does depend on you for your part of the income and insurance, I'd say that's what is keeping him around, and to still continue to mess with your head, and make you feel that YOU are responsible for every bad thing happening in his life, along with justifying his current actions.

L2S, we have also seem to have gotten away from the very important and concerning part of this situation, and that is the abuse part of this. We've gotten very caught up in what is he doing?; is he talking with OW or XW?; who is present at OW's parents home? And what impressions are her parents under? ect, ect...

Let's try, and remember these areas. This is the part that needs the most attention.

I'm not trying to bring up the painful part of this, but I do think this is just as important as the rest, if not more. And what your daughter could percieve as acceptable behavior.

Hang in there, and keep posting, L2S.

Jennifer

Yeah, I agree. He has some major anger issues that he needs to address regardless of our outcome. I'm getting really ansy (don't even know if I spelled that right). Every weekend he has something else to do. Today, went to OWs parents' home. Talked to him earlier and he was watching the race w/them. Just called me to say he would be there a while longer; it's almost 8:30pm now.

That really aggravates and hurts. He's spent all day w/them, no time w/me and next week he'll be complaining that he has no time to do anything. House is dirty, laundry piling up, etc. But, the biggest part to me is he has spent no time w/me.

So, I don't know. He isn't pushing divorce, he's willing to go to counseling and we do go some places together but we don't go to church together and on weekends we spend no time together unless it's work related.

I really don't know how to read this or what to think. So, my mind starts wandering to him just using me.

L2S, I want to suggest counseling, just for you, alone. To address these issues of abuse, and why it has become an acceptable way of life for you. And also, to help you to feel better about yourself, so you don't continue to allow this type of behavior any where near you.

Was your last relationship abusive? Verbal, emotional, physically or financially? I'm just curious.

As far as MC, that is fine, as long as you remember that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I think you should just focus on yourself, at this point. You need to dig DEEP down inside yourself, and and find what it is that is buried within you.

As I've mentioned before, I do not advocate divorce, but there are some acceptions that need to be taken seriously, and this is one of them.

It's disturbing to see that the only reflection of your life is from him, and what's going on in his head, and what his next move is going to be.

I'm a co-dependent, and I can see some strong signs of this in you. Al-Anon taught me alot. But there are other groups that address co-dependency, as well. If nothing else, go to a second hand store, and search for these books. One is called "Co-Dependent No More", and there are others that I have forgotten the names of. But there are many. You can even research it on the internet.
I can send you a few links on this, if you are interested.

Anyway, let me know how you are doing, and if you want those links. Take Care...Jennifer

Yes, please send links. You're right and it really bothers me that so much of my life and energy is focused on a man who is totally self-absorbed. The MC is being done initially by ourselves; 30 min w/him and 30 w/me. The MC thought we would make more headway that way rather than a session together of he said she said.


No, I don't think the abuse is warranted and I don't want to keep living like that. Funny (in a sad way) thing is, his son is a carbon copy.

My first marraige was not anything like this. I was married to a happy-go-lucky kind of guy that just didn't want to settle down and be a family. He wanted to spend his time with his drinking/drugging buddies. But, we never had the type R I have w/this one. But, I never loved the other one like this one either.

Next MC session is tomorrow. I plan to give him a laundry list of all the stuff that has gone on and that I have issues with. Easier to put on paper than remember in counseling. Also, I plan to ask him if he can find out from my H exactly what he wants and if this M is what he wants and exaactly what is going on. Don't know if he will or not. I'm just very curious as to what is going on w/him.

Oh, will check in this evening if I can. PCs at work are closely monitored and I can no longer go on line from there. Don't need to lose my job!!

Take care.

Ok, here are just a few. Co-dependency was originally labeled on people who were affeceted by an alcoholic or addict of some kind. But the defination has expanded in a wider variety, because it can affect more than just one area of life.

These links will describe what co-dependency is, and what the traits are. It would be good to get familiar with this, then decide if you fall into any of these categories. Read the second one, first.

http://www.nmha.org/infoctr/factsheets/43.cfm

http://www.recoveryresources.org/codependency.html

http://ezinearticles.com/?Co-Dependency&id=1494

Just an idea, L2S. After looking at these links, (especially the 2nd one), go back and look over some of your posts, and see if you can pick out some of these characteristics.

Just a thought...

Hi,

after reading your posts I wanted to comment to you some things. English is not my 1st language so please excuse my mistakes.

1. Your daughter is in danger. Your SS and SD are giving her not so good examples. Your husband might be incapable of hurting her now, but as his abuse has escalated it could be that there comes a time when he could say mean things to her, or do something hard to repair. Please don´t close your eyes to the fact that youngerst, male and female nead the close watch of the parents especially in unhealthy or volatile enviroments.

2.You have some time now in this site and you have the basic books. However, it´s not noticiable that you are digesting the information and the knowlege this site and those books offer. (Sorry if this sounds harsh, I´m trying to explain a point). In some of your posts you wonder why some cases have a solution. I think that sometimes what makes the difference is the attitude towards the info that is offered here and the ability and desire to put it in practice.

You have to learn and learn fast and start applying the information little by little.

I was in a very emotional and verbal abusive relationship for 8 years, from my 16 to 24 I´m now 38. What I have had to learn through the years after that relationship is what things in me attracted me to some one who could abuse me. To stop been a victim I had to learn how no to put myself in a situation in which I could be victimized.

You have to realise that the way you think, your mental and emotional process to make sense of experiences is failed, temporarly and is not helping you. It has not helped you along these years, you are reacting from a position of fear and to stop fearing you have to have knowlege about ways to solve your problems. What I see is that instead of trying to apply the ideas that have been offered to you, you keep doing the same kind of analysis that you made when you arrived here. The way you analyse things has to change as well as the way you act and react.

I know my words sound like if I felt I knew all, I don´t, I´m trying to offer you my point of view.

I´m going to mention to you some basic concepts that have been offered to you. These are not well intentioned advice, these are strategies that have worked for many people.

Learn about the dynamic of and affair, learn about the behavior of the WS. Apply that knowlege to the way you interact with him: One is your spouse, another person is the WS, while your spouse keep seen the OW don´t treat your WS as your spouse, you can´t open your heart to him, you can´t make negotiation, learn about the concept of fog and bable and stop reacting and analyzing every word he says, that will take you nowhere, you are loosing your time every time WS says something and you analyze it.

Apply the knowlege to make a plan.
Don´t allow your self to say that you are confussed or that you don´t know what to do. With the knowlege that you have found here, in the books and in therapy you have to take yourself out of the confusion and let the knowlege settle.

Make a plan.

1 Protect your daughter and your self from interacting in volatile situation.
2 Have all financial documentation with you. All valuable objects with you.
3 Have everything ready to change your bank accounts.
4 Have everything ready to ask for a legal separation to protect your assests.

5 Stop obssesing with his activities and the OW, work on your plan.

6 Tackle the bullying the black mailing and and the acusations involving, very few but trusted people.
.Tell the terapist what you did and what your husband is doing with the information. Say that you expect his understanting, of your husband, and confidentiality, don´t spare the terapist of the details your husband has been using this information against you. Be open to hear in front of the terapist the ways that info could have affected your husband. Find a solution, either he stops treateaning you or... Decide what will be or no acceptable if he keeps using that info or discussing it in an unhealthy way.

-Talk to your pastor, ask for his intervention concerning the acusations of an affair with the church member. Let the Minister talk to your husband, maybe with you present and the om present. In front of the minister ask your husband apologies for having a friendship that made him feel uncomfortable. It is important that in a very calm, and respectful way, in front of your husband, you tell the minister that you have felt very sad or stressed that it seems people in the church are talking to your husband about your behavior, and that he, your husband want to confront them all... I hope I´m explaing my self. You need to adresss everysituation that is causing you stress and fear, asking the help of professionals in a way that the behavior of your husband comes to the light, without been rude or disrespectful, just saying the facts and the way it is afecting you.

It´s very important that your husband see that you are not alone, that there are resources and that there are honorable people that can help you and respect you.

You have to understand, considering the info about affairs that is mentioned in this site, that you won´t be able to adress your marital problems until the affair EA or PA is finished. You have to understand this yourself, and follow the plan A.

Plan A is tricky and you have to read and understand it.
I won´t tell you what is plan A, but it is not working on your marriage, it is working on you. During this time you have to learn to stop all converstation about the marriage, the problems the past, the acusation, and concentrate in improving yourself, comunicating in a healthy way and ending the affair.

Learn to make the conversation with your husband shorter, don´t ask him about every little detail of his emotional life, refuse to be abused in the phone. Don´t go into his games. All he says that someone says about you, most of that is a game. He´s lieying and playing with you. Don´t give importance to that and when ever you can tackle the information, corroborate it. Expose his games as classy and calm as possible, not in an obvious way but clear and with witness.

Stop the fear, stop the chaos. It is in you not in him, not in the situation. You have the power to change what you feel.

If your emotions are draining you please visit your doctor. It would help you to go through this difficult time.

Every time your emotions tell you that you love him, answer to yourself: so what, many people around the workd, young and all go to jail, get in drugs or problems because they loved someone. Love him won´t redemp you from the responsability you have to you and to your daughter.

Only you can say if the financial situation is draining your resources and jeopardising your future and the one of your daughter but all along the process always keep your best interest in mind. Your daughter has to go to college, you want to travel when you are retired, if he gets desperate he may try to get as much as possible from you.

Finally, I have the impression that because you are a devoted christian you keep a kind of subsiervent relationship to your husband, maybe that is not the word but you keep asking him what he wants you to do and all that. Stop, while he is involved with OW you can´t grant your husband the same consideration that you would if he were not with her and if he were not abusing you verbally.
Take distance, use your time wisely in things that would improve you and your situation, do the minimum with the company if you have to but don´t be his maid. Be corteus, be gracius, but keep your distance.

If because you don´t do his paper work and you don´t do his laundry he ends with another woman, consider yourself liberated from a very selfish, unhappy and abusive man.

Excuse me again for my bad English, wrong spelling and too direct way of writting. I sincerly hope to see the tone of your posts change. It would the moment you realise that it is you who is allowing this abuse, fortunately, it is you who can stop it. Over all protect your daughter.

Best wishes

Pulling this back up...

Again...

Jennifer,
I went to the second link first.

HELLO. MY NAME IS LIFE2SHORT AND I AM CO-DEPENDENT!!!!

I saw a lot of my traits on the three sites. Those are:

Your struggle affects my serenity. My mental attention focuses on solving your problems/relieving your pain
My mental attention is focused on you
My mental attention is focused on protecting you
My self-esteem is bolstered by solving your problems
My self-esteem is bolstered by relieving your pain
The dreams I have for my future are linked to you
My fear of rejection determines what I say or do
My fear of your anger determines what I say or do
I use giving as a way of feeling safe in our relationship
I put my values aside in order to connect with you
The quality of my life is in relation to the quality of yours


An exaggerated sense of responsibility for the actions of others.
A tendency to confuse love and pity, with the tendency to “love” people they can pity and rescue.
A tendency to do more than their share, all of the time.
A tendency to become hurt when people don’t recognize their efforts.
An unhealthy dependence on relationships. The co-dependent will do anything to hold on to a relationship; to avoid the feeling of abandonment.
Lack of trust in self and/or others.
Fear of being abandoned or alone.
Difficulty identifying feelings.
Lying/dishonesty.
Poor communications
Difficulty making decisions.

I definitely see myself. I know that I can make it on my own. I was 28 before my first marriage. I made it successfully by myself after divorce. I "know" in my head that I don't need anyone. I like myself and often like being by myself. But, I see a lot of unhealthy characteristics that describe how I am in this current relationship.

My work has a employee assistance program at no charge for the first 5-6 visits. I was going to talk about my problems w/H. Now, I think I'll use that time wisely to explore how to escape this self-imposed trap.

You have no idea how independent I can be and apparently I've forgotten that as well.

I do want to be in a stable committed relationship. I just need to get myself to a better place. I can see all the signs and I know that what I'm doing isn't healthy for me or my D or my H for that matter.

I don't know how I became this way. When my first M ended, I was able to let go and move forward but I now think maybe part of the ease w/which I did that was b/c he moved away.

I do think my biggest problem is that I want to be needed. I am my H's "rescuer". I want to make everything better for him so he'll love me. Pathetic isn't it?

I have tried to do stuff for him from day one. I set myself up for the situation I'm in now. I did it, too. No one but me. He had a bitter D from 1st EXW. She took him to court alot. I was a "hero" b/c I got all the paperwork together; organized it. I was just the "take care of stuff" kind of person. I did a lot of it b/c of my past and how he would use it against me to get what he wanted. So, I fell into the habit of denying my own feelings about stuff and deferring to him so that he wouldn't get mad and hurt me w/my past; calling me names, etc.

Geez, Louise!!!! I've really screwed this one up.

Oh, well. Like Scarlet O'Hara said... I'll think about it tomorrow.

Thanks you guys. I actually feel a little better. I've really been chasing my tail the last few weeks and I think maybe he needs to do a little chasing.

Talk to you soon.

L2S, I was glad to see your post. And I prayed for you on my prayer thread.

Don't beat yourself up for becoming this way. It can happen to anybody. It's just how we choose to deal with it, once we become aware.

I am still struggling with this, myself. It's a difficult place to be. But we can learn from it, to help others.

Anyway, I think that the assistance program at your place of employment is a wonderful idea. I'd definately pursue this! Good Luck, and let me know how you are coping.

Take care,

Jennifer

Your English is fine. So is your message.

I've allowed myself to become mired in a relationship that is not very healthy. I've put up with a lot of junk in order to be in a relationship.

I don't necessarily want to get a D but I really don't want to be in a one-sided M forever either. My H has the ability to be a much better person than the person I currently know. I have the ability to be a much better person than the person I have allowed myself to become.

I appreciate you pointing out things that are really right in front of me but I choose not to see. I have read Surviving an Affair so I know about Plan A / Plan B. I have the head knowledge regarding a lot of what is on this site as well as what others have advised/suggested. It's just putting what I know into practice that I'm having a hard time with.

I wish I had found this site at the beginning of all my troubles. I would like to think I would have done things differently. I just keep waffling back and forth between getting out and panicking b/c I think he may be ready to get out.

I appreciate the advice and the time everyone has taken to advise me. I really want the M to work but I know that I need to work on myself first. I am planning to start that tomorrow.

Went to employee assistance program counselor today. Spent about 1.5 hours. She seems to think I have low self esteem because of some stuff that happened to me as a kid. As a result, I don't have much self worth so I let my H treat me the way he does. Like I don't deserve any better.

But, I do. She recommended the book "Boundaries". I'm going to try and get this weekend. Also "Shame".

I am going to get better regarding this and I am going to stand up to my H and not take that kind of stuff. Yeah, big talk, right? Easy to say when I'm sitting here on a computer and he's miles away!!!

I'm really going to work on it though. Who knows? I may decide I don't even want him in my life.

She also said that nothing is going to get better until he gets help. But, first step is admitting he needs help. I don't know if that will happen.

He's coming soon. Got to go. More later.

I agree with most of what your counselor told you, and it's true that he needs help. And yes, admitting it is the first step. But that's HIS first step. WE don't have anything to do with HIS choices, of deciding whether or not HE needs help, or to change. We can only make the choices of our own. The steps WE need to take, in getting the help of our own, to recover, and feel good enough about ourselves, to move on, with or without another.

I wish you the best during this time. I know it's hard! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Take Care...

Jennifer

I want to offer you an apology, I was so direct to you, ouch. I´m sorry.

I think I could see my self in some aspects of your story.

My partner used to tell me about the qualities of former lovers and when we were already separated he would tell me wonders of the new women in his life.

We separated after 8 years of living together. For two more I lived in an appartment that belonged to him. The appartment was in very bad conditions when I started living there. I paid for new wood floor, new kitchen, carpets. He still had keys to the appartment and used to go there to take naps, eat, or just hang around. In ex change of living there I would still work for him for some hours a week and would help him in several ways.

He had three childreen. I talk in the past because he´s dead now. His older children told him I was going out with someone from the appartmen´s building, completely untrue, but he throw me out of the appartment. Some days before that he had asked me my car, which I had had for four or five years, he said his car was at the workshop. So in one day I lost the appartment and my car.

When I look back and think in all the effort I put on that relationship, on all the energy, creativity, compasion, I had for him and how afraid I was of disappoint him.

I could see myself in you because I would also lie just not to make him angry at me. I was unable to ask his help when I really need it and I would spend my money on thing for our house, when we still lived togehter, or clothes for him.

The relationship with his children went from almost good to very bad. What I was not aware of then, was that the factor that would always prevent us from having a good relationship, was him, the way he used to demand certain behaviors and black mail by getting angry. He would put us one against the other.

His children would take my things, jewlery, clothes, equipment and I would always feel in the middle and taken advantage of.

The last straw for me was that after so much loyalty and devotion from my part he had destituted me with out even corroborating what he was acussing me of doing. I think that was his pretext. Some months later he came back to try to get me to pay 10 thousands dollars for a new piece of land he wanted to buy next to a country house we had built. I could not believe that after all he had done he could ask me for that. After that I really kept dark.

I wonder now why I had so much compasion and considerations for someone who could not appreciate them. I think I was trying to save him, to prove him that there were nice women out there, and to be good, I was trying to be a good person.

What I realised later was that he would always try to seduce frail women, good women, women with law self steem and difficult living situations, and very young. He didn´t want to have to any women any of his possesions, no mater how hard the women had helped him to get them. He would make them feel low by comparing them to other women. He did that to me and he did that to the new ones, he would compare them to me, lol.


Maybe our situations have some similitudes maybe not. I just wanted to explain you why I had been so direct with you. I guess your story was a trigger for me.

One of the things I would have done different is that I should have asked for the help of relatives and authorities. He took advantage of the fact that my family lived in another city. That is why I think it may help you to have the help of the MC and the minister to put in the ligh of day the things he is doing to you and that he thinks nobody would now.

It´s excellent that you can see your own faults, but I think it is not so healthy to let him make you constantly guilty. You can mention that problem in th MC too. Talk again the old recrimination and mutually agree to stop mention them every time a new problem appears. It's very tiring to be constantly remaind of past mistakes, reals or invented.

I read MD since the year 2003. I don´t post much because I´m not married.

I think you are doing big changes inside that would help you to make changes in the outside. I feel that for a codependent person like me, it is an effort of years to learn new habits of thinking and relating.

I don´t want to be afraid of the reactions of my partner, I don´t want to lie to him to avoid his angry outburst, I don´t want to have to be in a contest with other women for his attention. So I had to realise that the problem was not him but me. I didn´t have to do those things. I didn´t know it. I know that now, I know that I have the option to say no, I have the option of don´t feel afraid or presured or coaxed.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Take care

Are ya' around, today?

I'm here.

First, I need to tell Larousse that you didn't come on too strong. You're saying what's in your heart and you're speaking from experience. You've come out on the other side and you're trying to help. I really appreciate the encouragement of knowing that others have made it out.

Really bad day today. He called this morning (normal Sunday routine). Asked what I was doing. Told him I was taking my D and niece to church but would not stay. He told me I should. Went through the usual routine of no, go, no, go.

He then told me that he was going to the OWs parents' home. We had the conversation about that and I finally told him that if our M had a chance we both needed to be honest about our feelings and that I was hurt that he would even consider going over there. He said OW wasn't going to be there; he made sure of that first. Then he said that he should not have to give them up; they haven't done anything wrong and have befriended him. Said yes he had lied about who they were but they were in no way involved in anything.

Then he said if he had to give them up he also needed to give his best friend up because he was friends with his first ex wife. Made another really stupid remark like that and I told him that one had nothing to do with the other. He was married to his exwife. She wasn't a female friendship that was developed during his marriage.

Well, bad got worse and he started the cussing. Started calling names. Told me that it wasn't going to work. Then, started bringing up past. All the times he had begged me not to go to church but I went anyway. All the times he had asked me to come home but I wouldn't. All the times he blah blah blah.

He then started hanging up. I wouldn't let go and kept calling back. I asked him what he wanted. He said he wanted a D. Can't see it working. He can't get past the things I've done. He can't get past how I treated his kids (who by the way my SD is now in a northern state living with her boyfriend and my SS cussed his dad out last week and quit - told him he didn't want him as a Dad any longer and he was dead to him).

He said he justs wants to leave everyone behind and start over somewhere else. I told him that no one is problem free and that whereever he goes he will eventually have problems.

Asked him about going to church. He brought up the "I wanted to go to church w/you but you wouldn't let me". Yeah, b/c he was threatening to confront the OM in the church parking lot!! Said he asked me to go to a different church but I wouldn't. Yeah, b/c my D (his too) is established in the youth group at our church.

Basically, he said that he can't get past the fact that I talked to another man. There was never any contact outside of church and I bet I haven't talked to the guy 5 or 6 times in the last 1.5 years. I haven't even seen him since mid Jan; haven't been to church.

Anyway, I'm rambling. The usual Sunday junk happened. He said he wants it over. He can't get past me and the other guy. I can get past his A, his friendship with 2nd EXW, his new "lady" friend, all the cussing, name calling, nastiness, money issues, kid issues, etc but he can't get past OM.

I finally told him that I loved him and wanted it to work but he had to decide what he wanted. Told him that I would not call and cancel the counseling session this week and would not call the attorney but he can if that's what he chooses.

I do not know why I keep hanging on. Not even sure what I'm hanging onto except comfort.

I bought the book Boundaries today and plan to start reading that tonight. As usual, I'm sitting on pins and needles waiting on/hoping he will call. I am going to take it one hour at a time and try to occupy my time with other things. I hope I can make it through today without calling him again. Hope I can make it through tomorrow same way.

Please say another prayer for me. I need all the help I can get.

Oh, L2S. This is a repeating pattern, that I truly believe will continue, as long as you remain part of it.

Wouldn't it completely throw him off the loop, if one Sunday, you were not available to cuss at, or call names, or discuss any of the days plans with him. To not be on the other end, listening to him tell you where he is going for the day, and WHY? Just to NOT be around at all, for him to spew this CRAP all over you. He is obviously still very capable of verbal and emotional abuse, so I sincerely believe he is still most definately capable of physical abuse.

I keep trying to think of some words I haven't said yet, that could "Jog your Fog"!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I say go dark, L2S. Infact, go BLACK! He will not learn a darn thing, as long as you are there, recieving this stuff as he dishes it out to you.

I will continue to pray about this, L2S. I pray that God will guide you, and prepare you for His will in your life.

Take Care...Jennifer

And one more thing. You mentioned that you don't know why or what you're still hanging onto, except for comfort. If this is what you perceive as "comfort", then I would have to say, you are looking in the wrong place for this.

Let Jesus be your source of comfort. He is much more dependable for this than anyone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You're so right. One day down. I never called him. He called me several times today. He called me last night around midnight to tell me he was on the way home from the OW's parents'.

I told him yesterday that when we go to counseling this week he should ask the counselor if he thinks it's okay to go there.

Started reading Boundaries last night and today. Will read more soon. I think it's going to be a good book. I have employee assistance counseling again this Friday. I get 6 sessions free so I'm hoping some good will come out of it.

I continue to waffle between desperation and hopelessness regarding the M. I would love to know what my H truly thinks. Not sure how to find out but I just doubt the sincerity. I wonder about the insurance and $ angle.

Oh well, just rambling.

Jennifer - I haven't asked you lately how your situation is. Have you made a decision regarding your R? I really hope things are going well for you. I know you must really be struggling to decide which path to take. I pray God will guide you as well.

Thankyou, L2S. I had already decided, that I will not leave, until the girls are graduated. He can either wait until then, or not. His choice. I love he and his children very much, and I wish they weren't alone, right now. But I have responsibilities to complete, right where I'm at. I won't uproot my girls, especially being this close to the end of their education.

Sooo, we'll see. Thankyou for your prayers! It means alot to me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Hope you're doing ok. Good luck in your next employee assistance counseling. I hope it sheds some light on your situation. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Take Care...

Jennifer

This week's employee assistance counseling got cancelled. Maybe next week.

H and I went to counseling this week. Counselled us separately. Asked how things were. told him that my H doesn't seem to want to spend time w/me. told him about H going to OW's parents' house Sun and his best friend's Sat night. Told him that we spend no time together. Said that next week we will counsel together and that he will start getting into our issues.

MC said we seem to be moving farther apart. I got the feeling that he was saying I need to move back home and I made some comment. He said "you don't think I'm saying you need to go home do you". I said "yes". He said no, we just need to be spending more time together relating to each other outside of work related stuff.

So, I don't know. I still have my doubts about the $, insurance and OW.

If he's interested in trying to make it work why doesn't he want to spend any time w/me? Why doesn't he ask about making plans? I told him last week that I would like to get on his calendar for this weekend. He hasn't said a thing. He keeps saying that church is important and that he's going to get back into church but he makes no move to do so.

One of his favorite sayings is that he is "watching the pattern" meaning he's watching everything I say and do and will use it against me in his court of law. Well, I'm watching his as well.

How long will you have to "watch" before you "act"? I think you already know his pattern, L2S. He has proven this over and over to you. He has more issues than just a MC can solve.

You say you still have your doubts. DOUBTS? You've confirmed your doubts more than once, now, L2S. Watching his patterns will only hurt you, and drag you down farther.

Where, exactly are you living, now? Are you back in the same house with him?

L2S, I know you have true hopes for this, and I'm not trying to sound harsh, but this guy, (and I know he's not just a "guy" to you), will only continue to play this out to his OWN advantage, because it has worked before.

He has issues that are separate from you and the marriage, that he has NO intention of addressing. He only speaks with his mouth, not his actions. For example...Church. Has this happened, yet? There it is, his PATTERN. Just talk. Honey, he's just a "talker", even if his intentions are good. His mouth is his tool, to tell you what you want to hear, or to call you names, degrade you and hurt you.

From what I can tell, the only time he has backed up his words with actions, was when he was angry. Then it became physical.

I'm sorry, L2S, I don't mean to be a downer, and I truly don't mean to scare you off, I'm just telling you my perspective from the outside of this situation.

Good Luck...

Jennifer

I'm not back in the house. Still w/family member.
I'm not going back to the house unless things get better.

One of the things that makes this especially difficult (not impossible) is the family ties between us; my niece and I married second cousins. So, even though my H and I may divorce, there will still be a tie and there may be a time when he and I are at the same function for family occasions. That will be awkward and painful and difficult for my niece and her H.

What a mess. Oh well, just talked to H. We went w/niece, her H to dinner. My H went home; company work to do. Just talked to H and he asked if I wanted to do something tomorrow. Said yes. Will see what happens tomorrow.

I'm really interested in what will happen on Sunday. Will he suggest church or will he have to make a trip to OW's parents' again?

Oh well. I've mulled it over enough for today.

Well. Update.
Yesterday H called all morning. My D and I were outside washing vehicles. H was working. Kept asking if I had had shower yet. Kept saying no. Then, H would call later and ask same thing.
Finally, in mid afternoon said he thought I would have come into town and rode around with him while he was working. I told him he should have asked. I thought - Yeah right. If he wanted me to do that he would have asked. He didn't really want me there.
Finally, H called and asked me to meet him in town for dinner. Three of us (D too) went to eat and then a couple of stores. Went to our house around 9. He kept saying he was tired, back hurt and planned to go to bed. I was thinking that he was using as excuse so he could go to OWs. He kept calling until around 11 pm from home so I guess he didn't. But, if we lived there we wouldn't leave b/c he was tired and back hurt, right?????

This morning, as usual, called early and asked if I was going to church. Said no. Didn't ask what he was doing. I took D to church and left. Went back close to 11am. Went to bathroom and talked to friend on way out. Saw OM walk across parking lot with a woman.

H called me and asked where I was. Told him I was going to see my mom; I was actually headed that way. Asked where I was and what I had been doing. I told him. He went ballistic. Started the nasty cursing, name calling. Said I was lurking in the parking lot to catch a glimpse of other man. I told him OM had a woman w/him. That didn't matter.

Isn't that stupid since he has been telling me all these weeks that I should go to church there? So, if I catch a glimpse across the parking lot one day out of about 60, I'm a B and wh**e but, if I go to church twice a week and sit feet away from him through the whole service it's okay???????

Anyway, I've had enough. I called him back several times and he hung up. I turned around and went back to church. I am done. I pray to God to give me the courage to do what I should have done several years ago and should have done the day I walked out two years ago.

I want my life back.
I want my home back.
I want to create a good home for me and my D.

I am done.

Everyone please, please pray for me. I need all the prayers and strength I can get. This is going to kill me but I must do it.

He has called me several times this afternoon and I have ignored all.

Prayers going up.

Please don't listen when he is so disrespectful. Calmly tell him that you don't care to hear it, and hang up.

Thanks. It's so easy to be strong and decisive at the computer. Real life is much harder.

I did tell him today that I did not deserve to be talked to the way he talks to me. I told him that we may have problems and I've done my share of wrong things too but I have never disrepected him by cursing him.

He has called me via cell a few times this afternoon. I did not answer.

Stay strong, L2S. Try to keep this mentality that you have now. He will try to EVERYTHING and ANYTHING to crack you!

Try to remember, that even after this cools down, he will try to smooth talk you with the words you want to hear, to hook you back in, then BAM, the crap starts again. The pattern repeats itself. Example: The Sunday morning routine. Usually ends with cursing and name calling, then him going to OW's parents house, (people you didn't even know was OW's parents until recently...)

I will pray about this, L2S. You sound like you've finally reached the point of meaning it, this time. I truly hope so! I know this is difficult, so I'll pray for your strength and courage during this process.

Please pray for me, too. I'm going thru a similar process, and I'm not even married!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Take Care...Jennifer

All,
Yesterday evening as I was waiting on my D, I got a call that rocked my world and broke my heart all over again. Apparently the OW is indeed one of a series of OW. My darling H whom I have been going to MC w/to try and work on our M has been cavorting around with OW around mutual friends and it seems I'm the last to know.

H has been taking OW and on one occasion her mother to lunch w/mutual friends. Has dropped by her house w/same friend and was seen kissing her, telling her he loved her, etc. Is apparently quite friendly w/and used to her kids/grandkids. Apparently he can't get his work done during the day for being on the cell phone w/her and chasing all over town after her.

Apparently I'm the laughing stock of our company and my H has made comments that he keeps me around for the $ and the insurance.

But, the OW has problems of her own. He's also having phone sex of sorts w/another married woman; again someone he met through the company. It won't be long before he's having sex with this one. And, there's at least one other woman he met via company that he had sex with.

So, today is my liberation day. I called the lawyer on the way to work. I called the MC, told him what was up and cancelled the appt.

Now, H is running scared. He knows that he can't afford the lifestyle that he has been accustomed to b/c of my $. Also, he doesn't know how to do some of the company paperwork. I've been doing all that. Now, he has to ask someone else to do it b/c I said "no".

Jennifer -
You are so right. He's saying all the right words. He's saying everything I have wanted to hear for so long. He's lying through his teeth only he doesn't know that I know. Some of the stuff could have been just him being a cocky jerk and saying stuff to make himself look big. But, some of it occurred in front of others and it has finally made it back to me. So, I know a lot that he doesnt' know I know. Bad thing is I can't confront him w/it b/c I promised I would not.

Last night, he was at my house when we came home. He had been calling me frantically but I would not answer. He asked me what was going on and why I wouldn't answer. He said something about me getting my stuff out of his house in front of my D and got her upset. She was crying and afraid he was going to hurt me.

I got in vehicle w/me; cold outside. He locked door and started shoving me around. Balling fists up like he was going to hit me. Said he could kill me. Blah blah blah.

I told him it was over. That was all last night. Now today he is trying his best to talk me into taking a trip, coming home, trying hard for two weeks so he can show me that he can change and love me like I want to be loved, etc. etc. etc.

Please pray for me. I wrote down everything that I know he has done. My plan is to refer back to that list in weak moments. He has put my health in jeopardy. He has humiliated me in front of people I know. He has taken "the" OW around his kids and they just love her. He has taken advantage of my love for him. I know I put myself in this situation.

At some point in my life God is going to allow someone to come along that is going to knock my socks off. I just know it. I just have to guard my heart until then. I just need to wait, hold on, be patient. No more jumping the gun, no more settling and allowing the stuff I've allowed.

I am hurting so much right now I can't believe it. I wanted our M so desperately. I can't believe he could do all that he has done. How could I have been so wrong about this male person; he isn't a man.

(((L2S))) I'm so sorry, sweetie! I know this hurts like NOTHING else!!

You are doing the right thing, by contacting a lawyer, especially if this marriage is all about money to your H. PROTECT yourself!

You WILL come out of this a stronger and wiser person, L2S! There IS someone out there for you, that actually deserves you! Someone who won't throw his weight around, everytime things don't go HIS way.

But most of all, L2S, please keep safe! This male person, posing as your H, is violent and scary! Please don't meet him alone. The stronger you are, the more threatening you will appear to him, and he may not be able to handle it well. But this does not mean to be weak, just cautious! If you MUST meet with him, do it in public, or with someone else around. Change your locks, and try to keep the contact only thru your lawyers.

I will continue to pray about this, L2S. Hang in there, and KEEP THE FAITH!! God is with you RIGHT NOW!! Try to remember this!

Take Care...Jennifer

Hey Jennifer,
Yeah, I know. God is with me. I still can't truly believe everything I've been told. By that I mean I do believe it but I can't believe that this man that I have spent the last 9 years with could do some of the stuff I've been told he has/is doing.

I guess the consolation I have in all this is that what he is doing to me he will probably do to her. The man I fell in love with and married is gone.

I still haven't heard from the attorney. I've been told that my H is probably going to do everything he can to take everything he can. I have a feeling that this will be one nasty D. But, worth it in the long run I know.

What I can't figure out is why he was so angry Sunday. Calling me dozens of times and when I wouldn't answer and he couldn't find me he showed up at my house. Why was he so violent? Yesterday and today he has begged me to go to MC, go away for a weekend, give him two weeks to prove himself, give him one month to prove himself. The nastier I was to him the more he begged; he sounded like me!!!!

Today though he has backed down a bit. Guess he's had some time to plan his strategy w/the OW. My understanding is that he cannot get his work done during the day for being on phone w/her and going all over town to see her. He must be absolutely head over heels in love with her to let the company suffer; his source of income. But, it seems strange that he is talking to other women as well.

He is telling me that b/c I think it's about $, insurance and paperwork we should get separate checking accounts and he will get someone to do paperwork so he can prove to me that's not why he wants me in his life. Then today he started saying that maybe D was best b/c he can't make me understand that nothing has gone on between them.

I need to call the bank where our savings is to see if I can protect accounts. I am thinking I need to find another attorney even though this one drew up preliminary papers in Dec 05. H and I both want to use one attorney and get it over but that may not be possible.

First off, he is not "in love" with the OW. Otherwise, he would not be talking with these other women, and trying to talk you into going away for a weekend. People in love don't act like this.

Second, don't fall for the "proving himself" thing. He's already DONE that!! And by saying the D is probably a good idea, afterall...he's trying to call your bluff. Especially by saying the words, "he can't make you understand that nothing went on", even though you know DARN good and well different. He just doesn't know that you know, so now you know, his words are just ***** in the wind!

And last, but not least, the violence!! The topper of it all! This is how he reacts to losing control, and not having things HIS way!

I don't know about using the same attorney. I'm not sure that is a good idea. I thing you need one of your own, to fight for just YOU!

Hang in there, L2S! Keep your strength!

Jennifer

I think him asking me to go away for weekend, to give the marriage a real try for 2 weeks, for 4 weeks, etc. is b/c he is afraid to lose the $. That's just him trying to hang on just a little bit longer.

I talked to the employee assistance counselor today. Her take on it is that it is simply a matter of time before the OW is where I am and there's another OW in the picture. I believe that too.

I think you're right about the other attorney but I don't want to rock the boat too much w/him. Don't know how he'll react. He would think that by me getting another attorney I plan to try to hurt him financially. What he doesn't know is that I am willing to split 50/50 and not ask for child support in order to end it quickly.

He needs the ability to get on w/his life with the OW.

I overheard a conversation where she told him that his anger scares her. Yeah. She better be scared!!! She told him that she wasn't used to that kind of thing. Yeah. I wasn't either. I almost feel sorry for her .... NOT. How on earth can she trust him knowing that he found her through his job and he is in and out of women's houses all day long. She knows that he has done this to me with her. Does she really think that he won't do it TO her?

She apparently is very jealous. So is he. It's amazing that the two of them are following the same pattern that we did. He calls her all the time, tries to see her constantly, is doing things for her around her house, fixing things at her parent's house, fixing her daughter's car, etc. She just doesn't know the rest of the pattern. I could tell her but it wouldn't make any difference. My family loved him to begin with too. He was wonderful to me to begin with too.

In the conversation I could hear the sarcasm that to begin with was kind of cute but after awhile I realized what an absolute jerk he was. She will too. And, I hope I'm around to see it.

The counselor seems to think he may have a sexual addiction based on the fact that he is supposed to be in love w/her but is having phone sex of sorts with another woman. Counselor also seems to think he has some personality disorder like being psychotic I think she said.

I think for the OW this is going to be a nightmare. I know it has been for me and I think it was for the first wife. I don't think she has a clue what she is getting herself into. I think she thinks she has met the love of her life and I am a totally unreasonable woman. She just doesn't see that train barrelling down the tracks toward her, but she will.

What she will, or will not find out is not for you to worry about. You need to stay focused on you and your daughter, and your saftey.

What she or he is thinking, is THEIR problem! Consider yourself free from this garbage. So what, about what she is thinking! She's not a victim. She has made a CHOICE for herself, all on her OWN! Let her LIVE with it, now! You can be FREE! If it matters, she will figure this out, later on, and then she can do what she wants! NOT YOUR PROBLEM, ANYMORE!! (She is aware of his anger, so she's not going into it with blinders on.)

L2S, his connection with you, is his personal insurance plan. And so will the next one be, and the next, and the next!

Just be strong, and do what you have to do! Whenever you feel weak, remember all of this **** and most of all, remember the violence. Remember what it is you want your daughter to learn in life. Be her example of what is and is NOT acceptable in life! You can do this! Just be safe doing it!

Jennifer

L2S, How ya' holding up?

Ok, L2S, tomorrow is Sunday. You know the normal routine of this day. Will THIS Sunday be the same ol' drill, or will you have your steel-toe boots on, ready to kick butt, if needed? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Well, it's Sunday. Did the time change throw the routine off a little, today? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Let me know how you're doing...

Hey Jennifer.
Well, this past weekend I had to work out of town so wasn't here Sunday morning.

Here's the latest. I put a recorder on the home phone line and now have irrefutable proof of a six month affair. He is in love w/her and wants to D me to be w/her. Bad thing is it is totally illegal and I could be in big trouble if they find out. So, I can't confront him w/what I know. So, I'm probably going to hire pvt investigator to get proof so when we meet w/attorney I will have some leverage.

The OW is 10 years older than my H. OW is a counselor of sorts. Her family knows that he is married. She has told him that she wants to stop seeing him until we are D so she can feel better about herself. She wants to do the right thing NOW that our marriage is over. OW feels bad about what she has done. She doesn't want my H to hurt me any more. How do you D someone for someone else and not hurt them?????

He is doing poorly at work b/c he is chasing after her all day long. Doing all sorts of stuff for her at her house and lying to everyone about it. H will call me then immediately call her or vice versa. Tells her he loves her, tells me he loves me.

He spends time w/me and lies about it to her. He's lying to her as much as he is to me.

Please tell me that their relationship won't last. I at least need that much satisfaction in all this. Tell me that they won't end up together permanently.

At this point I want to do whatever I can to make my H know how much he has hurt me so he will remember that every time he looks at her. I know that's just being vindictive when I actually should be thanking her. She has already tasted some of the junk he dishes out. She's in for a ride. Or, she could be just the one for him. Who knows?

I had a meltdown yesterday after I heard some of the stuff and called and told him he could have the D, he could have XXX. He called me back 20 times and found out where I was and came there. Told me he loved me and wanted to fix things but not sure how.

Today, I got a grip on myself. I did not call him but did take his calls. I have to remain civil in order to continue unsuspicious access to the house. I need all the info I can get together for the PI. I went to house this afternoon and did some company work. Stayed long enough to finish part and told him I was leaving. He said he had hoped I would stay for awhile. Told him I had to do laundry. Don't know if he wanted me to stay or was trying to be appropriately sad to throw me off track b/c he will probably go to her house. He called me 2-3 times after I left to ask if everything was okay.

Now that he has done what he has done in front of so many people that I know (kids, family, friends) the M has to be over. Maybe this was the push I've been needing. He has been making a fool out of me for months and I knew nothing.

I've been told that he has slept w/at least a couple of other clients plus one woman from a place where he gets supplies and his 2nd exwife. And, the current OW is encouraging him to call the 2nd exwife to help w/the paperwork. If that's not letting the fox into the henhouse I don't know what is. I have letters from her telling him she wants a second chance w/him. How stupid the OW is.

They are creating a relationship out of deceit. She is 10 years older. She may be in her "prime" at 51 but give her about 8-10 years and does she really think he will be faithful? She knows about some of the infidelity (not all apparently). She must think she's all that. I know I did where he was concerned. I fell hard and fast and she has too. So has he. Folks I talk to can't understand why except the prestige of where she lives and the fact that she doesn't have to do laundry, paperwork, housework for him, etc.

Oh well. Who knows. What will be will be. I need to finish things off and get my life back on track w/my DD!!! I know that she will be relieved.

How are you doing? I haven't had much time to be on computer. Any more going on w/your situation? Hope you are doing well. Take care.

Hey, L2S. It was good to see that you're still alive and kicking.

My situation is still EXACTLY the same. No steps in any direction, just the same. I'm still here, and he's still there. The girls graduate next month, then the last one will this time next year. So, we'll see if he can hold out, or not.

Well, YOU have certainly had an interesting week! I'm just wondering about you needing proof. Do you need it for yourself, or do you actually need it for the divorce? Would providing proof of the A, help to protect you financially? I'm not being sarcastic, I truly am just curious. When I D'd, I left with nothing but my freedom and the girls. And that was enough for me. I didn't want any strings attached that could enable him to have ANY say in my life. I asked for nothing.

Ironically, NOW, after these years and the girls being grown, has he decided to help me out, all on his own. He calls it reimbursement of the past years. I call it guilt. Either way, it comes in handy, and I won't complain! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I know what you're going thru is truly devastating! I can't imagine hearing the things you did. I would never of had the guts to wire the phone, or anything like that. Because I KNOW what I would hear, and I KNOW I couldn't handle hearing it.

Besides, I didn't need proof. He confessed on his own. He sat me down and told me everything, because he couldn't handle the guilt. Well, I couldn't handle the deception, because this certainly wasn't the first time! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, you take care and keep us posted! Hang in there, and take care of yourself and your DD!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer

He has a nasty streak a mile wide. I believe that if I don't have some proof that I can hang over his head (apparently though he doesn't care that people know he's having an A) he will try to get as much as he can. He hasn't contributed 50% since the first year we were married but in my state it's equal distribution. How's that for a kick in the pants!!!!

You're right though. The freedom and peace of mind will be worth so much more than $ in the bank. My H won't confess to anything. He keeps telling me he loves me and wants it to work but is afraid things have gone too far and too much as happened to recover our M. He lies to me and lies to OW. She has no clue how much he is lying to her. At least I know that when his mouth is moving, it's a lie most of the time now.

I want to remain angry. When I get sad I start thinking about the would of, could of, should ofs. OW told my H that she doesn't want to see him until D b/c she should feel the pain and loneliness that I've been feeling as punishment for what she has done. But, then she turns around and says that she gave her all to this R and that she is proud of the way she has loved him and that this is the best thing she's ever done!!!!!!

Oh, well. Another day. Have a great one.

I guess I would just hate to see this drag out for you, for too long. It sounds to me like it's all 50/50, no matter how much proof you have.

I agree that angry mode is probably one of the things that keep us going. So be ANGRY!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> But also, allow yourself to feel ALL of your feelings, so they'll be purged. Slowly, once it's all out, you will be back to your ol' self, again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Do not worry about what the OW is thinking. It doesn't matter. SHE will be the one to have to LIVE with her choice! She's aware of his anger and abuse and HAS to know, that there are violent tendencies. The signs are all there, and it's up to her to acknowledge them. Her "new" future will turn out to disappoint her, but by then, YOU will be long gone with YOUR "new" future, looking back, saying to yourself, "How did I live like that for SOOO long?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Just keep looking and moving forward to your's and your DD's new life! It WILL be good!! One day at a time! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Take Care...

Jennifer

L2S, are you around?

I'm still here. Still learning way more than I want to know but learning what I NEED to know.

Still need some "court-worthy" proof. Everything I have is circumstantial or is something that I've learned from someone who wouldn't want my H to know they told me; don't want to create problems for that person. I would like to have stuff that would keep things in my favor during the process. I'm not interested in destroying him just in making sure I get my fair share. Of course, that will never happen. He'll get 50% but hasn't contributed that since our first year of marriage.

My darling H is trying to live a double life. H tells the OW that he never talks to me except about business stuff. Bull!!!! He talks to me the way he talks to her!!! I have lunch w/him, dinner w/him. H tells me he loves me!!!

Latest is OW has "broken" up w/him. Has gone out w/another man. My H told her it would be over if she did that. She did it but he's still trying to call her. Today he went to her parents' home to do some work for them. He's probably going to cry on their shoulder to get them to talk to her. From what I know her whole family thinks he's the best thing that has ever happened to her. How sad that they think a married man carrying on with their early 50s daughter is the best thing that has ever happened. Geez, what her life must have been like up to now!!!!

Oh well. I'm trying not to get bitter over it all. I really should be thanking her instead of thinking badly of her. I'm wondering if she has seen too many "red flags" to think this is a good thing.

If she has broken it off it will be impossible to get proof of them together but I imagine it won't be long before it will be someone else. He now calls me, then her, then his second exwife all in a row!!!

He's a real Casanova that husband of mine!!!!

L2S...glad to see that you're doing ok. I've been thinking of you. Just protect yourself.

I'm sorry, I'm not in a good way to reply much. I'm kind of going thru a change in my situation, which is pretty well draining me. I posted a thread on it that tells all about it.

Anyway, you take care, and keep coming here. You're on your way to a healthier and happier place!

Jennifer

I have learned that the love of my life is having multiple simultaneous affairs!!!!

He is still playing w/his 2nd EXW. Still trying to get the OW to continue seeing him. They are very much in love. The OW is playing him right now and is trying to force his hand and force him to divorce me so that they can be together. She feels "bad" about what she has done and can no longer pretend that everything is okay and that they are a "married couple" as long as he is married. Wow, what a revelation!!!

He has another woman on the side that he sees for sex only. This doesn't even count me, his wife!!!
I'm gather info now and will see lawyer soon. I can't wait until the day I am no longer married to whatever it is I find myself married to. I'm incredlbly angry w/myself for believing his lies for so long. I have allowed this "man" to abuse me, use me, manipulate me and put me through sheer ****** for the last 9 years. I should have left the first time I found out he was cheating but no, I was "in love" with him and thought that my love and devotion would make a difference.

Looking back, I could throw up at what I have subjected myself and my daughter to. I'm playing a game w/him right now pretending that I love him and want to make our M work until I can get my ducks in a row. I'm hoping to have them all lined up in about 2 weeks. Then, boom. I'm gone and so is his free ride. Can't wait to see his face then!!!!!

I am seriously considering showing/telling the OW what I know. I know she has put herself in this situation but she is right where I was at seven months into the R; madly in love. He is such a charmer and says and does all the right things. I have no doubt he will do to her what he did to me. She may not put up w/it as long as I have but she will get a taste of it I'm sure.

Oh well, I don't want to get bitter. Right now I am learning so much about what he has been doing that I am angry and frustrated and mad and sickened that I'm not too, too sad. I know that will come. I just have to remember that I am going to be fine. I'll have my life back and there will, at some point, be someone else in my life that deserves to be there.

Say a prayer for me.

Well, I'm sorry that it has come to this. Don't beat yourself up for not leaving the first time this happened. What matters is NOW and your future. You WILL be free to love again! One day at a time, L2S.

I am now split from my fiancee'. So I will be able to relate to your saddness, when it hits ya'. I'm crushed right now, but I know it was probably for the best.

Take Care...

Jennifer

Oh Jennifer. I'm so sorry. I was really hoping and praying for you that everything would work out okay. But, like you said, maybe it was for the best.

I know that I will be incredibly heartbroken when everything is done. I'll be alone and he'll be w/her. I just have to keep reminding myself of everything this man has done to me and put me through. I have to keep reminding myself that he is not going to leave the other women alone. He'll continue to chase them and string them along. I just won't be the one worrying.

Sad thing is though that she totally trusts him and he is lying to her at every turn.

Oh well. Not my problem anymore. I have thought about telling her what I know AFTER I get the papers signed and filed. Don't know if she would truly hear me out though.

Oh well. Life IS 2 short to be so unhappy. There's got to be someone better out there. I just need to learn to lean on God more for my happiness. I've got a lot of healing to do.

Take care. God bless.

Hey, L2S! I think we both have alot of healing to do, now.

I think it will be a huge relief, when the grief passes. I, too, keep thinking about some of the negative things that occurred, and the things I WON'T have to worry about, anymore. I was in a very peaceful and content place, at one time, for about 10 years, until this. So I will do whatever it takes, to return to that place!

Just allow yourself the time to grieve, as painful as it is. The more you get it out of your system, the sooner you will recover.

As far as sharing anything with the OW, I wouldn't. I think she deserves to live out these hard lessons on her own. She doesn't deserve any "Heads Up". What goes around comes around. Let it BITE HER IN THE you know WHERE!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Because you want to know something?? It WILL!! If you feel some kind of need to help her, then just pray for her, and let God handle it. YOU don't need to.

Anyway, just hang in there, and keep moving forward. This is ALL we can do! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Take Care...

Jennifer

Hey, Jennifer.
Yeah, we do have a lot of healing to do.

I am so excited about my future. I know it will be hard and I know I will be lonely at times but, that's preferable to what I have had for the last few years.

The game I'm playing right now is so hard. Pretending to love someone that is so deceitful to so many people, including the one he now professes to love enough to divorce me, is hard.

I'm finding out that a lot of people, know what's going on and have for some time. I am apparently the proverbial "last to know". But you know, I believe God has allowed everything to be revealed in a way that I could not refute it, could not turn a blind eye to it, could not ignore it. I might want to stick my head in the sand and pretend that my DH isn't a totally self-absorbed jack*** but I can't.

He is what he is and what he is isn't anything I want in my life or my daughter's. We want out!!!!! As quickly as we can get there. I have just about everything in place so that I can drop the bomb on him, make a couple of calls and it's all in place!!! I am looking forward to that day, hopefully end of this week or first of next.

I will update you on what happens. Should be fun. If you see something weird in the night sky, it might be the fireworks when my darling H realizes that he has been busted, I have the proof and me and my insurance and money are a thing of the past in his pitiful life!!!!

Have a great day. I sure am!

You sound good, L2S! Keep that strength, for you and your daughter.

You have alot to look forward to! A whole new way of living, the way YOU wish to! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Keep me posted on how this goes. I'll be waiting to hear back on this! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Take Care...

Jennifer

Well, still on the ride. Looks like I may not have everything I need in place until early next week but, hopefully, next week will be the start of the rest of mine and my daughter's lives.

H is still clueless about what I know. Still trying to have his cake and eat it, too. Still trying to get me in bed all the while professing true love to the OW and telling her that our relationship is just related to the business. What a low life!!!

Still playing the same games regarding church. He doesn't want me; he wants her. Wants me only for insurance and $. On the one hand tells me "go to church, it's okay. I promise I won't get mad. It honestly doesn't matter if you do". So, I did. Now, he's mad and doing the "did you see him", "did you speak to him", etc. crap. He's got a lot of nerve.

I really need to stay in the frame of mind I'm in right now. He has no idea how what he is doing is helping me stay resolved to get this over with.

How on earth could I have been so stupid for so long? Wasting precious moments of my life and my daughter's that can never be recovered over such a person. I am angry at myself for being so stupid especially when I've had close friends and family members (not to mention many people on this site) telling me to dump him and get on w/my life.

Oh well. I guess this is where the "better late than never" saying comes in. At least I've finally seen the light. I know that many women (and men) probably deal w/this type stuff for a lot longer, maybe for life. At least I am blessed by God to have a wonderful family, good friends, a good job and a thrifty nature. We'll be more than okay. We'll be fine.

Hope this finds you well. More as it happens!!

L2S, you are doing awesome! And don't beat yourself up over not doing this sooner. Because as you said, it IS better late than never! What matters now, is that you're doing it! You are now gaining back your self respect, making some wise moves, and getting things done! Good Job! You ARE on the road, L2S, so keep going! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Let me know how you are. My thoughts are with you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Take Care,

Jennifer

Well, latest is that the OW has broken it off w/him YET AGAIN. Perhaps she's not as blind and stupid as I've been thinking. She apparently thinks he is addicted to pain pills. I do not think that he is but, I didn't think a lot of other things that have come to pass either.

In the last few months OW had him asking permission to take a pill. OW didn't want him to take; wanted him to use natural remedies. Doesn't always help when you've had 3 back surgeries but, OW had him doing that anyway. Now, OW thinks he's addicted so she is scared by him taking a handful of pills in over a year.

Their break-up isn't what I wanted to see happen but, this has happened a couple of times over the last weeks so may not be permanent. Will know more today or tomorrow.

Papers should be ready tomorrow and I will give to him this week. Need to get a few sentimental things out of the house first. Will try to do early this week. I'm really not looking forward to what is going 2 happen when I do give him the papers. He is going to hit the roof. He doesn't want me except for $ and insurance but, he's going to hate to see me take his security blanket away.

You know, the saddest thing of all is that the 2 kids that he put first for so long are now gone. His darling son won't even speak to him; hasn't spoken to him since their blow-up a few weeks back; wants nothing to do w/him. He has now gone up north for a job. His darling daughter who went for a whole year not speaking to him is now up north w/her boyfriend and calls all the time but that's only b/c daddy is still shelling out the dough. His family has never had much to do w/him. Now the OW who he wanted to divorce me for has broken up w/him. His fall-back woman (his 2nd EXW) is still around though. Maybe they'll get back 2 gether. It won't last though and he'll continue cheating; I have no doubt about that.

BUT, me and my daughter will be happy and free. She's a great age now and we can travel and go and do and have a wonderful time. I know that God has something great in store for us and I know that he has a wonderful man out there somewhere and, in His time, He'll reveal that person to me or vice versa.

I'm really sad about the whole thing but trying hard not to dwell on the broken dreams, broken promises, etc. It's much easier that way!!!!

Hope all is well w/you all (whomever reads this).

Jennifer - I think you're about the only one that replies anymore. That's okay. I'm sure there are so many on here that really need the help and direction. I have made a decision and my issues are really just chatting more than anything.

I have learned so much from all this. I pray to God that I will never be so stupid and blind again. Knowing what I know now, I imagine that most of our marriage was one big lie after another. He does it so easily and I felt so guilty for so long about my past and my lies regarding it. Now that I know how much he lies but treats me so terribly over what I've done, I just get angry thinking about it.

Oh well, back to work.

Just wanted to say hello and update you on what's going on. Look for fireworks in the night sky this week!!

L2S, It sounds like you've been doing well.

I would like you to check out a place where I've been posting. It's a Codependency board, and the people there are great. It has helped me ALOT since the split with my XF. So many there are going thru what I am, AND what you are! We are focusing on our recovery, and trying to figure out why we are drawn to the types of people that we have chosen in our lives. It is VERY well worth looking into!

Here is the link, and I hope to see you there!

www.allaboutcounseling.com

Click on "Discussions", you can enter your nickname, or just click on the "Just READ the discussions", then a window will come up for you to agree to the guidelines of the site. Just click on that, and you're THERE! PLEASE do this L2S! It will be WELL worth your time!

Let me know if you have any trouble finding your way. I will help you with this!

Jennifer

L2S, had a little scare, there! I thought you had an evil twin on this board, but thankfully it was a false alarm!

Anyway, I hope you saw my post to you, right above this one!

FYI posters, this is NOT the same L2S as the visitor here today! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Take Care...

Jennifer

Just a bump for L2S. I hope you get a chance to look at what I posted above for you. Please take a look at that site and let me know what you think.

Hope all is well!!

Jennifer

I did go to site but haven't had much time to really see what it's all about.
I really hope you're doing okay.
I'm having a hard time convincing my H that it's over and we need to move on w/our lives.

He suddenly says he loves me and will do whatever he has to in order to regain my trust and love. He'll install GPS on his vehicle, he'll be accountable 24/7. Sad that it took D to wake him up.

Oh well. Wish me luck. I'm sad and hurt and mad and angry and all those emotions but I'm also determined. He has hurt me enough. It would take just a few short months before he's back to his old tricks.

Just be strong, L2S!! The games will continue, so just try and stay focused on what you need to do! You're doing great.

That site is about codependency. MANY there are going thru what you are, and me, for that matter. I would love to run into you there, sometime! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Take Care,

Jen

Bump...

Bump, Hope all is well...