I want opinions on a response to a message before I send it. - 07/20/06 07:36 PM
A little background. We've never established a visitation agreement and I'm not happy with what she's been doing. I'm very close to taking her to court over all of this but I want to give her one last chance before I end up declaring all out war.
She says she's going to consult a lawyer on a visitation agreement. Below is what I originally wrote her, followed by her response, followed by the response I want opinions on before I send it. Please let me know. I've tried to minimize the LBs, which was tough, but I tried.
The original response:
WW,
Who is this someone and why is this being done without my inputs?
You are completely going about this the wrong way. You don't do this with someone else, you do it with me.
You are again under the mistaken assumption that it is you that I want to see. It isn't. I want to see the kids.
I also feel that if the only time I get to see them is the weekends then you will get them Sunday night, not 1030. It is only fair since you have them every day.
Don't lecture me about hobbies or getting a life. I have a great job, great friends, and plenty of things of my own to do. This does not, however, in any way shape or form take the place of the time with my kids that I have a right to have and that they have a right to have.
Again, I will not accept a unilaterally devised visitation schedule. It will be done between you and I or not at all. I'm not going to accept what "someone" feels I should have.
Your choice on how we go about this.
(me)
Her response:
First of all I am not assuming you want to see me, but saying that regardless, you can't be a regular presence around my house all the time now that I live close by. That won't work.
Second of all, I am consulting a lawyer about visitation, not some random person off the street. Yes, I get to see them during the week, but by the time I get home from work I get about and hour and a half with the boys each night and about two hours with Amanda. Add that up ray each day and see just how much time I really get to spend time with them!!!! So, no, it is not unbalanced, and if you want to spend time with the kids this weekend it is fine, but you have to have them back by 10:30 Sunday morning, that is fair.
What I want to respond to this:
WW,
The lawyer is going to tell you that this is worked out through mediation. If we can't come to an agreement in mediation, it then goes to trial and it is a lottery draw at that point and a gamble.
It is in our best interests to come up with something together. I will tell you know that I will not accept what some other lawyer says I should accept. It's called a visitation agreement for a reason.
Most states allow for a liberal visitation schedule when the two parents get along. As far as I could tell we were getting along just fine on Sunday, then you suddenly stopped contacting me.
Whether we like it or not we are going to be in each other's lives for the next 16 years, making decisions on these kids. It is in their best interests for you and I to get along and talk things out and come up with something we both agree with. Not only that, but we need to work on developing a friendship for them.
I'll be honest with you, I'm very disappointed that you feel this is the best path for us to take. We are supporting two separate households and all the bills that come along with that. If you and I found a way to put aside our problems or work them out, we could be living very comfortably and the kids would have both parents in their lives.
I don't see why this path we're on is somehow better.
I don't love you anymore. Not the way I used to. However, I would be willing to try in order to make a better future for our kids. It would require forgiveness on both sides, but if you think about this practically, it's in their best interests.
I'm sure this suggestion is out of the question to you, but I ask you to think about this: The money we're spending on separate households, bills, and even taxes could be money we put into college funds, items for the kids, insurance policies, retirement, and a real nice home.
I'm not approaching this from the romantic point of view, but the practical.
Just 9 months ago we were going to lunch together every single day. We would wake up and make love. We worked together at night to feed the kids and put them to bed. We took them to playgrounds and to the kids museum.
I remember those things and think that that life was so much better than the one we have now. I wish you could see that.
I read the letter you wrote me just over a year ago and still am dumbfounded as to where these feelings went. You stated that your love for me was deeper than I could imagine. You mentioned all the rough things we went through and how that made us come out stronger as a couple.
Where did this go? Why is this life now better than what we had then?
I was and still am a man willing to work on and address the issues you had in our marriage. Even willing to sacrifice the relationship with my family in order to give the children a strong father and good role model in their lives and have them grow up in an intact home where they don't have to devide their loyalties.
I urge you to look at them and think long term. The more time we're apart and not communicating, the deeper anger and resentment will grow on both parts. A lot has happened that has broken things on both sides. Yet, I'm willing to put that behind us in order to give the children a strong home.
I know we could do it if we both committed ourselves to making it happen and got help to do so.
We loved each other once, I think we could do so again. I urge you to not continue on this path. Statistics and studies show that this will not be good for the children in the long run. Please, think of them.
Please, lets stop this madness. The children deserve better. No one will love them as much as you and I. No one you meet, no one I meet will feel for them as we do. They deserve to have the people that love them most in this world getting along.
I really thought that at this point you and I would be at least on a friendly level and seeing each other regularly to hang out. Back in April I had hopes that we would be back together by our anniversary, and definitely by Christmas.
Now I don't think it will ever happen at all.
We can make the conscious decision to not go down this path. It will take effort, and work, and forgiveness, but if you think about the kids and we keep them as our motivators, we could do it.
You have made positive changes in your life. Things I had been hoping to see over the years. I have made many changes in mine.
I now have a very good job, my own place, and have even lost weight. It's a good company and a good salary that could give us both a good life style if we were together.
I have been willing to and am still willing to address all the issues you had problems with before. I'm asking you to please think of the kids.
No, I don't like clubbing, but it doesn't mean I couldn't try. Yes, I could have been more romantic, and I was willing to try. No, I would not tolerate someone disrespecting you anymore as far as my mother was/is concerned. I really wish these things meant something to you.
Please, WW, lets not continue this. It isn't good for the kids. I'm really trying and have been trying to be friendly and cordial with you, but nothing has worked.
Lets work together and just start small. At least tell me what it is that you want or how you see things playing out? I have no idea what role you picture me having in your life or the kids. I'm asking you to please not ignore me anymore and simply tell me the honest brutal truth about things. We can talk honestly and get everything out. There's things I need to share and I'm sure you have things you need to share. We throw it all on the table, get it out completely, forgive each other and at least make the effort to work to become friends again.
I know you think I'm crazy to suggest this, but we have nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying.
What do you say?
(me)
She says she's going to consult a lawyer on a visitation agreement. Below is what I originally wrote her, followed by her response, followed by the response I want opinions on before I send it. Please let me know. I've tried to minimize the LBs, which was tough, but I tried.
The original response:
WW,
Who is this someone and why is this being done without my inputs?
You are completely going about this the wrong way. You don't do this with someone else, you do it with me.
You are again under the mistaken assumption that it is you that I want to see. It isn't. I want to see the kids.
I also feel that if the only time I get to see them is the weekends then you will get them Sunday night, not 1030. It is only fair since you have them every day.
Don't lecture me about hobbies or getting a life. I have a great job, great friends, and plenty of things of my own to do. This does not, however, in any way shape or form take the place of the time with my kids that I have a right to have and that they have a right to have.
Again, I will not accept a unilaterally devised visitation schedule. It will be done between you and I or not at all. I'm not going to accept what "someone" feels I should have.
Your choice on how we go about this.
(me)
Her response:
First of all I am not assuming you want to see me, but saying that regardless, you can't be a regular presence around my house all the time now that I live close by. That won't work.
Second of all, I am consulting a lawyer about visitation, not some random person off the street. Yes, I get to see them during the week, but by the time I get home from work I get about and hour and a half with the boys each night and about two hours with Amanda. Add that up ray each day and see just how much time I really get to spend time with them!!!! So, no, it is not unbalanced, and if you want to spend time with the kids this weekend it is fine, but you have to have them back by 10:30 Sunday morning, that is fair.
What I want to respond to this:
WW,
The lawyer is going to tell you that this is worked out through mediation. If we can't come to an agreement in mediation, it then goes to trial and it is a lottery draw at that point and a gamble.
It is in our best interests to come up with something together. I will tell you know that I will not accept what some other lawyer says I should accept. It's called a visitation agreement for a reason.
Most states allow for a liberal visitation schedule when the two parents get along. As far as I could tell we were getting along just fine on Sunday, then you suddenly stopped contacting me.
Whether we like it or not we are going to be in each other's lives for the next 16 years, making decisions on these kids. It is in their best interests for you and I to get along and talk things out and come up with something we both agree with. Not only that, but we need to work on developing a friendship for them.
I'll be honest with you, I'm very disappointed that you feel this is the best path for us to take. We are supporting two separate households and all the bills that come along with that. If you and I found a way to put aside our problems or work them out, we could be living very comfortably and the kids would have both parents in their lives.
I don't see why this path we're on is somehow better.
I don't love you anymore. Not the way I used to. However, I would be willing to try in order to make a better future for our kids. It would require forgiveness on both sides, but if you think about this practically, it's in their best interests.
I'm sure this suggestion is out of the question to you, but I ask you to think about this: The money we're spending on separate households, bills, and even taxes could be money we put into college funds, items for the kids, insurance policies, retirement, and a real nice home.
I'm not approaching this from the romantic point of view, but the practical.
Just 9 months ago we were going to lunch together every single day. We would wake up and make love. We worked together at night to feed the kids and put them to bed. We took them to playgrounds and to the kids museum.
I remember those things and think that that life was so much better than the one we have now. I wish you could see that.
I read the letter you wrote me just over a year ago and still am dumbfounded as to where these feelings went. You stated that your love for me was deeper than I could imagine. You mentioned all the rough things we went through and how that made us come out stronger as a couple.
Where did this go? Why is this life now better than what we had then?
I was and still am a man willing to work on and address the issues you had in our marriage. Even willing to sacrifice the relationship with my family in order to give the children a strong father and good role model in their lives and have them grow up in an intact home where they don't have to devide their loyalties.
I urge you to look at them and think long term. The more time we're apart and not communicating, the deeper anger and resentment will grow on both parts. A lot has happened that has broken things on both sides. Yet, I'm willing to put that behind us in order to give the children a strong home.
I know we could do it if we both committed ourselves to making it happen and got help to do so.
We loved each other once, I think we could do so again. I urge you to not continue on this path. Statistics and studies show that this will not be good for the children in the long run. Please, think of them.
Please, lets stop this madness. The children deserve better. No one will love them as much as you and I. No one you meet, no one I meet will feel for them as we do. They deserve to have the people that love them most in this world getting along.
I really thought that at this point you and I would be at least on a friendly level and seeing each other regularly to hang out. Back in April I had hopes that we would be back together by our anniversary, and definitely by Christmas.
Now I don't think it will ever happen at all.
We can make the conscious decision to not go down this path. It will take effort, and work, and forgiveness, but if you think about the kids and we keep them as our motivators, we could do it.
You have made positive changes in your life. Things I had been hoping to see over the years. I have made many changes in mine.
I now have a very good job, my own place, and have even lost weight. It's a good company and a good salary that could give us both a good life style if we were together.
I have been willing to and am still willing to address all the issues you had problems with before. I'm asking you to please think of the kids.
No, I don't like clubbing, but it doesn't mean I couldn't try. Yes, I could have been more romantic, and I was willing to try. No, I would not tolerate someone disrespecting you anymore as far as my mother was/is concerned. I really wish these things meant something to you.
Please, WW, lets not continue this. It isn't good for the kids. I'm really trying and have been trying to be friendly and cordial with you, but nothing has worked.
Lets work together and just start small. At least tell me what it is that you want or how you see things playing out? I have no idea what role you picture me having in your life or the kids. I'm asking you to please not ignore me anymore and simply tell me the honest brutal truth about things. We can talk honestly and get everything out. There's things I need to share and I'm sure you have things you need to share. We throw it all on the table, get it out completely, forgive each other and at least make the effort to work to become friends again.
I know you think I'm crazy to suggest this, but we have nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying.
What do you say?
(me)