Vash's Thread: My Marriage 101 - 10/16/06 06:37 PM
My name is Jason. Before you read and respond to this thread you have to understand a couple things about me...
First things first, this would be the disclaimer. I write for days. It seems at times much easier for me sometimes to sit and write things out than it will be for my spouse. I am not saying that I am smarter than her, because she is extremely intelligent; I just have more practice at this sort of thing. Insults... If you are here to help me, that is wonderful. I would like to take the time to thank you right here. However, as even Dr. Harvey says "Every person is unique." and I am no exception to this. If you see a problem with something I have wrote about, draw me out, ask questions, and do not jump to conclusions. I have seen many times already on this site that people (even I) jump to a conclusion and in my opinion it just ends wrong. I would appreciate if we kept the negativity out of this thread as I am here to heal and hopefully help my wife and I move on from this. I know many of you have seen and been through alot of this type of things, but again I quote Dr. Harvey when I say, this is an "individual marriage", not the "average one". So I ask again that you focus on the marriage. If there is a pertinent issue that you see as a contributor, feel free to engage in a conversation about it, but please lets not stray to far from what the goal here is. Thank you again.
Ok, so here we go. I am the betrayed spouse. This is my second marriage and the first one ended in much the same way this one may end, my wife’s infidelity. Each marriage was different, and as much as I compare the two sometimes, they are unique in spirit and in person. That goes for both people too, not just the woman of my life, but I am also much different. After reading almost all the information on the site, I have started "His needs, Her needs" and I think I understand more clearly what to do and where to go from here.
I am no stranger to counseling. I have been to therapists as well as my wife. A year back, we were not having huge issues, just communication problems so we went to a marriage councilor. I have read many books on this topic and been through hours of study because I was determined not to let this marriage end. Some of this material really made sense to me and I really identified with lots of it.
As many of you know already, my wife was the first one to this site. She authored the thread "I am an adulteress" and after many wayward turns, seems to finally be on track to helping her along the way. I am doing this thread for 2 reasons, first, there are feelings I have that I want to know if they are normal in this process, and second, because I want to discuss what I think my wife’s issue is. I need to know that I am not responsible for this behavior. Regardless if I continue with this marriage or move on, I need to know I am ok.
I have put off writing this thread for many reasons. I wanted Jess to make an honest effort at self discovery and self evaluation before I tried to help. I also wanted to read up and make sure that what I thought to be the cause was in fact the cause. Well, Jess has been trying, and she has made some honest progress, but I don't think she is going to get there with out more help from me. Most of the people here have given her wonderful advice, but again this is the internet, and though the advice is pertinent to the situation, some of it may not get translated into ways that she and I can understand... In the end, it’s us that have to work it out, and who speaks each others language better than us.
As I mentioned, I have used other recourses to try to strengthen our marriage. One of these is The 5 love languages by Dr. Chapman . The concepts he puts forth are very good for understanding the differences of men and women and like Dr. Harvey's 10 basic needs, is a great starting point. However we come to another crux. Dr. Harvey outlines repeatedly, that while every relationship is unique, there are averages. I agree with this, but where do I draw the line? Who is right, and who is wrong? Again I have to draw on Dr. Harvey and believe that every one and every marriage is unique.
I am not going to go back over the details line by line here. That can be done in my wife’s thread which is linked already above. What I want to talk about as I have said, is my feelings first. When it happened to me in my first marriage, I don't think I let it bother me as much as this one is. I was a Marine at the time and everything that accompanied that. I was as tough inside as I was outside. I realize years later when Jessica and I were building our relationship, that this statement wasn't exactly true. I had tons of hang ups over the weirdest things that I had sewed into my personality like an armor jacket. My armor was the lies that I would tell myself and others, so that I would not be that venerable again. Jessica was patient though. She slowly removed each thread with care and concern until I was fully exposed. She worked through every lie, half truth, and defense I had. Though it did create strain, it also strengthened us to the point of invulnerability. Nothing could touch us for long. We of course had our ups and downs, but we were always able to push through it.
Thinking back on this stuff, it makes me sad. The thought that we were invincible was something I clung to. Maybe even a little desperately. This became my new armor. I wrapped our relationship around me so tight, I knew nothing could ever separate it from me... Yet here I am.
Question 1. How do I ever get past, this huge trust issue that this created?
Question 2. Does it ever go back to normal?
Question 3. Can I trust myself enough, to not sabotage the relationship because of the bitterness?
For Jessica’s part, she says she is willing to do anything it takes to make this up and move forward. Each day she is very attentive, and allows me my space when I have to have it and fills my emotional needs when I ask. What I am scared of as well is her loosing herself in the process. She is such a strong woman full of independence. This was to me one of the most attractive qualities; will she give that up now? Will she loose herself in fixing this and become someone that I won't be attracted to anyway?
Jessica has Caretaker Personality Syndrome. There is a very good book written about it by Les Barbanell called: Removing the Mask of Kindness: Diagnosis and Treatment of the Caretaker Personality Syndrome . She always wants to help those that she feels need help. This has never applied to me, which is why she feels safe with me. This friend of ours was such a person however. He is a 27 year old man. He has a drug habit, he is short, and he smokes. I am not making fun of him, I am pointing out these traits as they are marks against him in Jessica’s book. Totally something she would never be attracted to were she single. He just recently went through a breakup with his long time girlfriend because she was cheating on him. This is where Jessica stepped in. Jessica wanted to help him so bad. We have all been friends for a couple of years, but when he and his girl friend split, that’s when it became dangerous for Jessica.
Now here is where I apply Dr Harvey love bank AND Jessica’s emotional needs. She took the EN quiz and wizzed through it stating to me that she could not identify 1 thing that I was not meeting. I looked at Dr Harvey's top 10, and I could really seem to find any that she would identify that I wasn't meeting on some level. After becoming so frustrated by this that I couldn't stand it, I had to go back to the beginning and think about this. After re0reading all she has said here in this forum, and a couple emails she sent to me, I think I may have figured it out.
Like I said, she is a caretaker. This has become an emotional need for her. In fact I believe it to be closer to her 3rd highest than to her 5th. This man was filling her love bank, based off of her emotional need to care for him. He responded to her administrations by doing and saying things based off of advice or conversations between them. He quit smoking, he has cut down on drug use, and was limiting the women he saw based on Jessica’s approval. All things to fill her bank and obviously making my deposits in adequate.
Now I am stuck with this. Again the questions:
1. Is this a mental illness, and if so, can she be treated?
2. If I stay, can I ever allow her to have male friends again?
3. Is my life ever going to be normal again?
I am not sure where to go from here. I am trying to reconnect with her. It’s only been 21 days though. I know I love her, but the betrayal is just so horrific. I am afraid of either future... If I stay with her, am I going to ruin my marriage in some way, am I going to ruin her in some way, or even ruin myself? If I leave, is the next woman in my life doomed to repeat what Jessica went through only 2 fold? Who would stay around for that? I know that anything worth having takes work, but how much work is too much?
I thank you all for your time and patience with me and Jessica. I know that neither of us are easy people sometimes. I look forward to your replies...
Jason/Vash
First things first, this would be the disclaimer. I write for days. It seems at times much easier for me sometimes to sit and write things out than it will be for my spouse. I am not saying that I am smarter than her, because she is extremely intelligent; I just have more practice at this sort of thing. Insults... If you are here to help me, that is wonderful. I would like to take the time to thank you right here. However, as even Dr. Harvey says "Every person is unique." and I am no exception to this. If you see a problem with something I have wrote about, draw me out, ask questions, and do not jump to conclusions. I have seen many times already on this site that people (even I) jump to a conclusion and in my opinion it just ends wrong. I would appreciate if we kept the negativity out of this thread as I am here to heal and hopefully help my wife and I move on from this. I know many of you have seen and been through alot of this type of things, but again I quote Dr. Harvey when I say, this is an "individual marriage", not the "average one". So I ask again that you focus on the marriage. If there is a pertinent issue that you see as a contributor, feel free to engage in a conversation about it, but please lets not stray to far from what the goal here is. Thank you again.
Ok, so here we go. I am the betrayed spouse. This is my second marriage and the first one ended in much the same way this one may end, my wife’s infidelity. Each marriage was different, and as much as I compare the two sometimes, they are unique in spirit and in person. That goes for both people too, not just the woman of my life, but I am also much different. After reading almost all the information on the site, I have started "His needs, Her needs" and I think I understand more clearly what to do and where to go from here.
I am no stranger to counseling. I have been to therapists as well as my wife. A year back, we were not having huge issues, just communication problems so we went to a marriage councilor. I have read many books on this topic and been through hours of study because I was determined not to let this marriage end. Some of this material really made sense to me and I really identified with lots of it.
As many of you know already, my wife was the first one to this site. She authored the thread "I am an adulteress" and after many wayward turns, seems to finally be on track to helping her along the way. I am doing this thread for 2 reasons, first, there are feelings I have that I want to know if they are normal in this process, and second, because I want to discuss what I think my wife’s issue is. I need to know that I am not responsible for this behavior. Regardless if I continue with this marriage or move on, I need to know I am ok.
I have put off writing this thread for many reasons. I wanted Jess to make an honest effort at self discovery and self evaluation before I tried to help. I also wanted to read up and make sure that what I thought to be the cause was in fact the cause. Well, Jess has been trying, and she has made some honest progress, but I don't think she is going to get there with out more help from me. Most of the people here have given her wonderful advice, but again this is the internet, and though the advice is pertinent to the situation, some of it may not get translated into ways that she and I can understand... In the end, it’s us that have to work it out, and who speaks each others language better than us.
As I mentioned, I have used other recourses to try to strengthen our marriage. One of these is The 5 love languages by Dr. Chapman . The concepts he puts forth are very good for understanding the differences of men and women and like Dr. Harvey's 10 basic needs, is a great starting point. However we come to another crux. Dr. Harvey outlines repeatedly, that while every relationship is unique, there are averages. I agree with this, but where do I draw the line? Who is right, and who is wrong? Again I have to draw on Dr. Harvey and believe that every one and every marriage is unique.
I am not going to go back over the details line by line here. That can be done in my wife’s thread which is linked already above. What I want to talk about as I have said, is my feelings first. When it happened to me in my first marriage, I don't think I let it bother me as much as this one is. I was a Marine at the time and everything that accompanied that. I was as tough inside as I was outside. I realize years later when Jessica and I were building our relationship, that this statement wasn't exactly true. I had tons of hang ups over the weirdest things that I had sewed into my personality like an armor jacket. My armor was the lies that I would tell myself and others, so that I would not be that venerable again. Jessica was patient though. She slowly removed each thread with care and concern until I was fully exposed. She worked through every lie, half truth, and defense I had. Though it did create strain, it also strengthened us to the point of invulnerability. Nothing could touch us for long. We of course had our ups and downs, but we were always able to push through it.
Thinking back on this stuff, it makes me sad. The thought that we were invincible was something I clung to. Maybe even a little desperately. This became my new armor. I wrapped our relationship around me so tight, I knew nothing could ever separate it from me... Yet here I am.
Question 1. How do I ever get past, this huge trust issue that this created?
Question 2. Does it ever go back to normal?
Question 3. Can I trust myself enough, to not sabotage the relationship because of the bitterness?
For Jessica’s part, she says she is willing to do anything it takes to make this up and move forward. Each day she is very attentive, and allows me my space when I have to have it and fills my emotional needs when I ask. What I am scared of as well is her loosing herself in the process. She is such a strong woman full of independence. This was to me one of the most attractive qualities; will she give that up now? Will she loose herself in fixing this and become someone that I won't be attracted to anyway?
Jessica has Caretaker Personality Syndrome. There is a very good book written about it by Les Barbanell called: Removing the Mask of Kindness: Diagnosis and Treatment of the Caretaker Personality Syndrome . She always wants to help those that she feels need help. This has never applied to me, which is why she feels safe with me. This friend of ours was such a person however. He is a 27 year old man. He has a drug habit, he is short, and he smokes. I am not making fun of him, I am pointing out these traits as they are marks against him in Jessica’s book. Totally something she would never be attracted to were she single. He just recently went through a breakup with his long time girlfriend because she was cheating on him. This is where Jessica stepped in. Jessica wanted to help him so bad. We have all been friends for a couple of years, but when he and his girl friend split, that’s when it became dangerous for Jessica.
Now here is where I apply Dr Harvey love bank AND Jessica’s emotional needs. She took the EN quiz and wizzed through it stating to me that she could not identify 1 thing that I was not meeting. I looked at Dr Harvey's top 10, and I could really seem to find any that she would identify that I wasn't meeting on some level. After becoming so frustrated by this that I couldn't stand it, I had to go back to the beginning and think about this. After re0reading all she has said here in this forum, and a couple emails she sent to me, I think I may have figured it out.
Like I said, she is a caretaker. This has become an emotional need for her. In fact I believe it to be closer to her 3rd highest than to her 5th. This man was filling her love bank, based off of her emotional need to care for him. He responded to her administrations by doing and saying things based off of advice or conversations between them. He quit smoking, he has cut down on drug use, and was limiting the women he saw based on Jessica’s approval. All things to fill her bank and obviously making my deposits in adequate.
Now I am stuck with this. Again the questions:
1. Is this a mental illness, and if so, can she be treated?
2. If I stay, can I ever allow her to have male friends again?
3. Is my life ever going to be normal again?
I am not sure where to go from here. I am trying to reconnect with her. It’s only been 21 days though. I know I love her, but the betrayal is just so horrific. I am afraid of either future... If I stay with her, am I going to ruin my marriage in some way, am I going to ruin her in some way, or even ruin myself? If I leave, is the next woman in my life doomed to repeat what Jessica went through only 2 fold? Who would stay around for that? I know that anything worth having takes work, but how much work is too much?
I thank you all for your time and patience with me and Jessica. I know that neither of us are easy people sometimes. I look forward to your replies...
Jason/Vash